Nicolai G13 with Fox Float factory DPS LV Evol -help needed- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Nicolai G13 with Fox Float factory DPS LV Evol -help needed

    Have had my G13 for a few weeks now... and am loving it. I am however having some issues with the setup of my Fox rear shock. I chose this shock because it is specced by Nicolai on their complete bikes.

    When I set sag to 30%, I am unable to get full travel on test runs...hitting every drop and jump I can (nothing too big though). In fact at times I'm using less than 40 mm of the available 51 mm of shock travel. I opened up the air can... there is one Fox spacer fitted (about 8.5 mm thick).

    Anyone else running a similar shock? Does anyone know if Nicolai themselves run any volume reducers? Should I remove the volume spacer or find a smaller one? Any setup tips?

    Cheers Muz.
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  2. #2
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    Are you running much compression damping?
    Take the volume spaced out, reset sag and ride the same trail, you may need some additional compression and rebound with increased shock pressure.


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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Are you running much compression damping?
    Take the volume spaced out, reset sag and ride the same trail, you may need some additional compression and rebound with increased shock pressure.


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    Thanks the_pilot for your reply.
    There's no dedicated compression adjustment on the shock... just the three way lever and a minor 3 way adjuster for open mode. I'm more used to my Cane Creek where I have high and low speed compression adjustment.

    Hopefully someone has the same shock from Nicolai and can tell me if they come with a spacer installed.
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  4. #4
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    I get the settings, are you running firm/3 or open 1 was my question. I would'nt worry about whether others are or aren't running the volume spacer, the question is more is it working for you.

    So to answer your very first question, yes remove the spacer, adjust the settings, assess the effect. You'll need more pressure so maybe add a a click or two of rebound.
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  5. #5
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    I'm running open 1.
    Will give it a run with no spacer.
    Cheers Muz
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  6. #6
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    I feel that last bit of travel is for really big hits only. Like alpine rain channels. You mentioned ed hitting "nothing big". A dropoffs unlikely to do it. Maybe a sharp edged rock you hook up on.
    My G16 (Float X2) never gets full travel, but it does feel great. That o ring is always a few mm from the end.
    I'd definitely follow Pilot's advice to remove the spacer and test that. But don't get hung up on achieving full travel.
    Same with the fork IMO. With a "big" bike my 10c is that FULL travel is there to save you on monster hits.
    Wonder if Pilot is getting full travel with his 30% sag? On either 29 or 650 versions?


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    I feel that last bit of travel is for really big hits only. Like alpine rain channels. You mentioned ed hitting "nothing big". A dropoffs unlikely to do it. Maybe a sharp edged rock you hook up on.
    My G16 (Float X2) never gets full travel, but it does feel great. That o ring is always a few mm from the end.
    I'd definitely follow Pilot's advice to remove the spacer and test that. But don't get hung up on achieving full travel.
    Same with the fork IMO. With a "big" bike my 10c is that FULL travel is there to save you on monster hits.
    Wonder if Pilot is getting full travel with his 30% sag? On either 29 or 650 versions?


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    I get what you're saying mudfish... but I've got 10-12 mm out of a possible 50 mm not being used. A few mm in reserve would be fine. I guess I put it out there as I was curious as to what suspension tune suited the G13 best... a progressive setup or a more linear one. My understanding is that by removing the spacer, I'll be tuning towards a more linear setup. Thoughts anyone?

    As an extra... I ran my G13 a week ago with a Cane Creek Inline Coil... it felt fantastic. I ran a 550 lb spring but I think I need a 600lb one. I've ordered the 600lb spring but have about a months wait for it to arrive...very hard to source a 600 lb x 2" spring.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmu66 View Post
    Have had my G13 for a few weeks now... and am loving it. I am however having some issues with the setup of my Fox rear shock. I chose this shock because it is specced by Nicolai on their complete bikes.

    When I set sag to 30%, I am unable to get full travel on test runs...hitting every drop and jump I can (nothing too big though). In fact at times I'm using less than 40 mm of the available 51 mm of shock travel. I opened up the air can... there is one Fox spacer fitted (about 8.5 mm thick).

    Anyone else running a similar shock? Does anyone know if Nicolai themselves run any volume reducers? Should I remove the volume spacer or find a smaller one? Any setup tips?

    Cheers Muz.
    The leverage ratio on that bike is quite progressive, going from 3.2ish to 2.2. A leverage rate that goes progressive like that is best suited to a coil spring shock, which by its nature is not very progressive (there's a bit of end-stroke progression due to reservoir pressure, but it's not significant on non-SPV/old DHX shocks).

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    Air shocks by their nature start progressive, then go flat in the middle of the stroke, then go progressive again at the end. So ideally, you are looking for something that starts out fairly low-leverage, then goes steeper in the mid-stroke, then goes flat or falling in the end, if you want to use an air shock. This is why many bikes these days go flat or falling-rate at the end of the travel, because the air-shock the bike is intended to be paired with will get significantly more progressive at the end of travel. See these leverage rates below, from Specialized, Pivot, etc.



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    These leverage rates are much more suitable for an air-shock of some kind. The manufacturer can design the frame to be a compromise, so it can run either, but it won't be as well suited, as it'll be overly progressive with an air shock and not progressive enough with a coil, if you really push the bike to the limits. It is possible to aid the end stroke of the coil shock a bit with a bottom-out bumper, like Push and Avalanche do, but the previous damper-based solutions for this from Progressive/Curnut and the DHX boost-valve were terrible for bump absorption. What you have there based on the leverage rate of the G13 is a bike that is optimized for a coil shock, plain and simple and pretty straightforward. It's no surprise that with an air shock you are running into this issue, it's simply too progressive. You could try 35% sag, that is absolutely not out of line for such a bike, but you might find that it remains harsh on successive bumps, because it's simply too progressive for the damping available from the shock.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #9
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    Hey Jayem... awesome information. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. Your information backs up how I was feeling... so it's nice to know I was on the right track with my thoughts on the coil shock.

    With all volume spacers removed the shock did achieve more of its travel and did feel slightly more plush. I did notice in comparison to my mate on his Banshee Prime (Both similar travel and both 29ers), I was not able to achieve anywhere near as much 'pop' over small jumps as he did. His jumping arc was a much higher 'loop' compared to my flatter jumping arc. Might try reducing the Rebound Damping a click or two and see how it feels.

    *** Interesting to note too... I ran with a Quarg Shockwiz on the rear shock for the ride... it seemed very happy with the setup and gave it a 97% rating (if that counts for anything).
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmu66 View Post
    His jumping arc was a much higher 'loop' compared to my flatter jumping arc. Might try reducing the Rebound Damping a click or two and see how it feels.
    .
    Maybe, but there are a LOT of things that could account for that, from the geometry (of which there are many parameters obviously) of the G13 to the banshee simply having lighter wheels. My XC FS 29er pops off stuff like crazy, while my AM 27.5 doesn't to the same degree, and they both have the same basic suspension design, and then there was my old 29er AM (E29) that was glued to the ground compared to both (heavy wheels and tires set up for AM and slow to accelerate). I also want my wheels in contact with the ground as much as possible for control, except that most OEM shocks don't let you run a lot of low speed compression and rebound without packing up, but custom tunes will allow for this. It is still possible to have good shock damping and a "maneuverable/nimble" bike that you can loft easily, but I think that's more about geometry and wheels.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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