Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"

    Hi Guys, especially Pilot (r.e. his forward geometry ION 16 design),
    Any thoughts yet on the Mojo Nicolai Geometron, seems like Chris Porter has gone even further on forward geometry with this pretty radical design.

    MOJO SUSPENSION ::: Mojo Nicolai GeoMetron
    Mojo and Nicolai team up to offer a unique new suspension bike - MBR

  2. #2
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    Here's a post from "Pilot / aka Chainline" - I spotted this comprehensive comment on Singletrack:
    So much to answer...Having had one very close to that for a year now (Mine is steeper HA at 65/slacker ST at 74.5) its easy to make judgements before riding one. It isn't for everyone thats for sure but for some you wonder how you rode anything else.

    As Loco said, switchbacks aren't a problem, neither is frame stiffness. A large Alpine is over 30mm shorter, the XL is close, but I'm 5'10 so the seat tube is ridiculous on an XL.
    My bike has a 430mm Seat tube but 665mm ETT with a 200mm dropper post, 30mm stem, just gone up from a 10mm as I wanted more reach..this means you can get very low between the bike on steep stuff, you don't need to hang off the back and lose all that braking traction on your front wheel.

    8mm in BB height is a big difference in feel. swopping between low and high is 10mm different BB height as well as head angle and makes a huge difference in how it rides as well as impacting pedal strike-ability....340mm is as low as practical in my view and on some terrain I've had to lift mine.

    It pedals well, definitely not just for DH but it does excel on fast, technical and steep terrain.

    Frame price for a Nicolai even Custom is not wildly different from a Santa Cruz.

    As for durability, much of the weight is derived from the front end and the travel, upping the front fork travel results in stronger, heavier downtube, possible gussetting, heavier top tube, same scenario at the rear, which is why your DH bike in alloy is heavier...220mm or more of travel is a lot more than 160mm/170mm.

    Nicolai do the analysis for you if you want bigger forks etc and wont sell you a frame that isn't durable just because you want it lighter...I have had requests refused on that basis....

  3. #3
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    Hi mudfish

    For some reason I can't open the pdf showing the geometry. If you are able to, could you paste it up here. Cheers.

    Is it correct that Nicolai are now selling direct to dealers?

    btw what stem is that? I don't think it is a Mondraker?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Hi mudfish

    For some reason I can't open the pdf showing the geometry. If you are able to, could you paste it up here. Cheers.

    Is it correct that Nicolai are now selling direct to dealers?

    btw what stem is that? I don't think it is a Mondraker?
    Hi LR
    Dunno about dealers
    Not my bike so dont know the stem, can email you the geo pdf. Private message me your email address?
    N

  5. #5
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    Mojo Nicolai Geometron Geometry

    Hia Loamranger,
    Can't upload a PDF but here's a Jpeg, hope it works for you:
    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-mojo-nicolai-geometron-2015-geometry.jpg

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    LR, yes on dealers. Stem is a Hope.

    Stem on mine is a 30mm Syntace. If my fork steerer wasn't quite so short I'd give the slacker still geo a go but I just can't see needing it! Matts is 64 and exactly the same geo as mine apart from that so I'll have a bash on that at some point but as I said in the other thread, he lives in Hebden, its steep everywhere...my riding isn't steep everywhere so mine is slacker than a Mondraker but steeper than a geometron..
    Aka chainline...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    LR, yes on dealers. Stem is a Hope.

    Stem on mine is a 30mm Syntace. If my fork steerer wasn't quite so short I'd give the slacker still geo a go but I just can't see needing it! Matts is 64 and exactly the same geo as mine apart from that so I'll have a bash on that at some point but as I said in the other thread, he lives in Hebden, its steep everywhere...my riding isn't steep everywhere so mine is slacker than a Mondraker but steeper than a geometron..
    Syntace 30mm, I'll check that out.

    For ref my HA is 65.5 on the Dune.

    Let us know about 26 inch switch out in the rear. Had this set-up on the Knolly and liked it. MF reminded me about the Liteville review on PB with that set-up...have you read it?

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    LR did they make the Mondy slacker, it was a touch steeper when I was looking with a 160 fork, not that it matters a jot. Mr Porter was trying to convince me to go much slacker and it's easy to get sucked into a trend but I need to try it first, not convinced it's necessary..

    I did read the Liteville review, it was an excellent explanation of perceived benefits and made me want to give it a go.

    It's quite tight in the back tho, to go smaller with a decent tyre.

    I recently asked Marcel about a more flexible Ion that could take a 26 and 27.5 in the back with sliding dropouts and could also be switched between approx 140-150mm and 180mm travel using a different length shock.
    Not had a chance to chat it through yet.

    Last year I asked about a different linkage with a 140/160 setting but he said no one uses it now and too expensive to develop
    So my plan was two shocks, same length, one restricted travel.
    The Geometron travel range is also through different shocks.

    It may too big a range to handle properly and I don't want a 170-180 bike all the time. But it may work, it could even work off the chip used as geometry compensation for the shock rather than angle adjust. I think I'd keep the BB at 340mm anyway...

    Agh, shut up brain!


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  9. #9
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    I am really looking forward to reading about testrides on the Geometron. I'd love to know what Steve Jones thinks to a real long bike like that. They are super long for sure.

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    MF, Steve Jones got a long custom Ion a while ago, essentially very close to a long GT sanction angles wise as that's what he liked. There was a picture published...
    Surprising (to me) how many Journo's have Nicolai's as personal bikes.
    Mark at Singletrack another one. Guy Kesteven..


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  11. #11
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    Dune is 65.5 with 180 fork.

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    Thx Pilot,
    I actually picked up in one online article that CP gave Jonesy the long Mondraker - be good to know how he got on with it compared to his XL Spesh Stumy FSR 29, the GT Sanction, Giant 27.5 and the other "new-long" size machines. There's a long thread on Singletrack about the CPs long geometry and quite a bit about how CP can't ride round tight corners (complaining on the Trans Provence).
    Your a Trans P. guy arent you? So you must find forward control good for even tight trails? Would you have that long custom ION 650 of yours as a "one bike" solution though?
    I am guessing that the mag reviews saying the Mondraker Dine is hard to pedal standing or pedal uphill and hard to steer on flatter singletrack might easily be the result of journos who are very used to their own "normal" geo bikes. My 64.5 head angle AM does ok in the woods but its 80mm shorter than the G-Tron.
    Interesting this, though.
    I'd so love to read a test on the GTron by Jonesy.

  13. #13
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    Spotted this amazing video on Dirt, that guy Nikki Whiles can surely ride and the GTron's not looking like it's slowing him down! MOJO GEOMETRON BIKE WITH NIKKI WHILES - Dirt .
    Anyone had a testride yet. Even one in the Mojo carpark?
    Neil

  14. #14
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    Mudfish, I did ride TP yes. I can't say I find mind hard on tight trails. Different technique to really tight switchbacks, but I for some in Spain last year and it was fine.
    The stuff I read about the Dune (Pinkbike wasn't it) bears no resemblance to my experience. In fact almost the opposite.

    One bike solution. It's perfectly do-able, but it's definitely more boring on flat stuff!
    I've not test ridden theirs, but mine is so close I say I can have an informed opinion.
    I keep messing with my 'angles' virtually but I end up in the same place so see no point in changing it....




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  15. #15
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    BB height and comparing geometry

    Hia Pilot

    thanks for your reply. It's VERY helpful to have this conversation with you, to have your "informed opinion". And good to know you like yours on tight trails.
    Yours (5'11") wheelbase 1235, reach 486, v. (v close to their LONG 485)
    - their WB's range 1268/1288/1313.

    At 6'2" I am just 4.23% taller than you (calculates me at reach 506.6), between Longer 502 and Longest 520 - - I bet CP would want me on the Longest which has a reach 95mm longer than mine. Big change.
    Long at + 77 might be easier to adapt to.
    Hmmm 20mm to come off though 'cos of my 50mm stem ;-)
    so plus 75 or 57, now longest is tempting

    I do like the sound of Mojo's 13.5mm longer chain stays, at 6'2" - last I rode an XL Spesh Enduro (carbon / dual fork one WB 1205, CS 421) - pretty long front for the short rear - I found it hard to weight the front.

    I ride my AM (Large, HA 65 (A/Set), 50 stem, Reach 425, WB 1173, BB 360!) in pretty tight local woods and love it - but when it gets open and fast I'd like more stability. Looks like I'm going to have to trip to Wales to see if I can manage that LONGER/EST bike..

    Are you getting on well with your 342mm BB? it seems very low - if the ground were rooty, can't recall if you use short cranks? I'm on 175's
    Mojo's BB = 340 (low setting) so, I guess 348 (HIGH).

    thanks Pilot
    neil

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    Hey mud fish

    My BB is lower now..I went to 64deg so it's longer too, just over 1250. I loved the steering when I rode Matts version of mine in Hebden it doesn't need it but it felt good!
    Marcel at 6'5" is on longer, Moritz at my height is on a Long style 120mm Ion...
    Marcel thinks the Longest is too much for normal riding. I think thats a personal thing.
    Don't forget that at 6'2" you could easily reduce the stem, either to a 10 or 20 (the height wouldn't affect you at your height) or to 15-20mm when Kirk Pacenti gets the P-Dent going at the same hight as a normal stem.

    You also have to consider how you pedal. I have my seat forward now (76deg equiv)so it's right for my riding position but I wouldn't want to go much steeper without trying since it gives a different pedalling position. I'm quite 'quadsy' when it comes to pedalling. (EDITP: my wife informs me its the opposite of what I thought, steeper is more quad)

    The geometron has a longer wheelbase because of the steep ST but same ETT which pushes it out further, hence the reach for length equation.

    I personally think mine climbs great with the ST between 75-76deg.

    I find in certain circumstances I have had to lift my BB. For a couple of days in Spain this year, but mainly on more pedally mountain traverses but also in flat pedally singletrack. Lifting it to the high position has solved it every time.
    However I don't normally notice it at all, I run 170mm cranks.

    Why don't you have a bash on mine and then if you want you can move on to trying the Geometron..

    My friend at 6'5" sat on mine the other day and said how nice and roomy it was. I'm planning something closer to a Geometron for him to get the reach without making the whole thing too long (675mm ETT) as it will be a 'one' bike for him. Also not quite as slack inherently. More like mine with 65.5 but easy to take to 64 or even 63.5 with a works headset.

    If you DM me I'll send you my phone number, easier to talk. And we can meet up over a pint and a pie to talk about it



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    Last edited by the_pilot; 09-03-2015 at 09:05 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Holy crap, you guys need to put this in General! Extremely interesting stuff is happening at Mojo and Nicolai.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

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    Travis it's out there isn't it. Some of us have been playing around with this stuff for a while so it's not so new.. I suspect most people will be horrified and the haters will jump on the thread, but I could be wrong. Post it up. The links are on Mojo's page.'
    Nicolai aren't pushing it in their own model line, but you've always been able to go custom with them so it's normal...


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  19. #19
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    Fascinating. I have been reading a lot about geometry lately and would love to get my hands on something like a Mondraker Vantage frame. My bike is a Knolly Warden, which has decent reach, great handling etc.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

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    exciting times indeed

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Fascinating. I have been reading a lot about geometry lately and would love to get my hands on something like a Mondraker Vantage frame. My bike is a Knolly Warden, which has decent reach, great handling etc.
    Hi Travis

    I went from a Chilcotin to a Dune. For a tall rider it was the first time I could run a stem less than 60/70mm and I immediately felt more comfortable and had better control. I know the 4 x 4 is a good suspension design but i now feel that the Zero pedals much better( and is perhaps better than the Horst link Ion design as well?). I'm running a 30mm stem but now after riding the Crafty 29er I think I could go longer still. Hence the interest in what CP is doing with Nicolai and also Pilot with his 29/27.5 combination project. Both these guys and Mondraker are pushing the boundaries IMO.

    The Dune is now coming in a Carbon version with adjustable chain stay length.

    First Ride: Mondraker Dune Carbon - Pinkbike

  22. #22
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    Holy Moly.
    These bikes are huge. Interesting approach for sure.

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    Chris's Ion has also upped the progressiveness of the Ion design and moved the anti squat so will pedal better than it did, although I think it pedals fine. I personally didn't like the dead zone on the Monraker system. It just gos to show that we all feel differently, which is what makes life interesting.

    I've been trying out this bonkers steep seat tube thing on mine. I must confess i rather like it and may put something together that shortens my top tube but lengthens my reach slightly over my current design. I think personally I'm sticking wih 27.5 wheels but if I can get Nicolai to create a dropout with two axle locations a la Liteville or use sliding dropouts, which they already have to let me use a 26" wheel and/or tune chainstay length, I will do that to.
    Aka chainline...

  24. #24
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    Hi Pilot

    Are you still going ahead with the 29/27.5 project for your tall friend?

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    @loamranger that one is on hold at the moment unfortunately. I have drawings for a fwd get Helius AC tho for an Italian guy. No one has done this kind of design with a Helius yet I understand. there are a couple of mods needed to get the frame right. Planning 140mm/150mm travel 65Deg HA. 76.5 SA. 480reach 620 ETT. Low BB.


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  26. #26
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    Anyone out there hungry for more info and ride impressions can see The Pilot's enthusiastic and thorough write up on the gearbox version here:
    Nicolai GPI/Geometron Ride/Info/Pics- Mtbr.com
    Enduro Mag wrote up the Geometron too:
    First Look | MOJO Suspension Nicolai Geometron | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
    Enjoy

  27. #27
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    Longest on order

    Well, short post, but sweet, very sweet.
    Had a test with Mojo and "The Pilot" at Forest Of Dean and really liked the Mojo Nicolai Geometron. I liked it so much I've ordered one, stealth black. Frame fork and Fox DOSS package.
    I call mine rootmaster, get it = long and stable, a thing of beauty like the old red London Routemaster bus, and the "root" part = confidence inspiring over rough ground.
    Confidence inspiring all round, actually. Amazing turning on the trail centre berms and flat corners. Fabulous on the mini DH tracks at FOD too.
    Very highly recommended. Turns great, pedals well, doesn't feel too long or too slack at all but it does turn and track amazingly well which is what that long slack geometry's all about.
    Chris Porter has done an amazing job.
    chapeau
    Last edited by mudfish801; 09-03-2015 at 05:09 AM. Reason: title added

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    well done Mudfish...I can concur, its a game changer, definitely challenges you conceptions and it also felt quite different to mine given its got similar, on paper, geo.

    Dynamically it's quite different to mine. Have to say, I loved it..
    Aka chainline...

  29. #29
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    Congratulations Mudfish. You and Pilot have got me thinking. Cheers.

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    I just love it, more and more every ride. Why did I have to wait 30 years for a bike that fits me!
    You know the feeling Loamranger, you having discovered the same thing with Mondraker forward geo.
    Every ride is better. Even tightest local tree lined singletrack, I reckon it's the best handling bike I've ever piloted through my local woods. Must be 'cos it fits so well. Fox suspension is feeling fab too. Grippy but almost unnoticeable. Ground here is getting slippy now on and off, sticky clay, but even myriad roots are crossed easily. What a bike! Lively, poppy and takes the hits.
    Out in The North Downs on the sandy ground with lots of roots today, superb grip on off camber roots, amazing. (Trailstar Magic front, Spesh Slaughter Grid rear). There's a rooty hill I've not made it up since going 1 x 10, I did today though, the reputation's right, it pedals like a bastard.
    Fabulous work from Chris at Mojo and thanks lots to Nicolai's factory elves for welding up the beast.

  31. #31
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    Mojo Geometron Longest, stealth option (black on black)

    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-rootmaster.jpg
    no tape on top tube now, raised the bar a bit to avoid lever strikes.

  32. #32
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    Well, looks like Paul Aston at Pinkbike agrees with me.
    "I remember saying to a friend in 2007, "why doesn't somebody just make a six-inch travel trail bike with downhill geometry, that you could pedal up the hill?" Eight years later and this is what we have! The GeoMetron is the ideal machine for people who want to get to the top in their own time, then challenge the downhillers' on the way back down."
    Actually, I think it's great on tight nadgery singletrack too!
    Nice review with some great pics:
    Nicolai Mojo GeoMetron: First Ride - Pinkbike

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    Doesn't tell the whole story I don't think of just how well this bike pedals, maybe more so with the new float X2 shock. So many comments making statements based on paper numbers...


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    Hey Pilot
    Yeah, the spreadsheet riders are out on the Singletrack thread.
    Mind, if I'd recently invested in an expensive bike with "the old" geometry, I'd be grumpy too. That pic with the tilted down seat needs explaining though. If you only sit on steep climbs I guess it would work! Maybe that's another Mr. Porter revalation to try out.
    My 2p worth - its impossible to know how well this geo works of if it suits you without riding it - and nit just ariund a carpark. I'm sure the Mondraker owners out there will agree, sadly though they are missing out on the balance gained with longer chainstays. Getting on "the right size" bike for the first time is quite a feeling. After an hour I was hooked. (6'2", on the Longest, 5" longer WB than my previous "large", short offset fork).
    Following your ION thread I know you "developed" this geometry (pretty much) yourself in that beautiful team blue bike, so were well on the way to Geometron love.
    IMO, the geo numbers just aren't telling the story about how well it rides EVERYWHERE. Pedals, turns, descends, climbs, carves tight singletrack. Last weekend I managed a steep rooty climb I've not made once since I went 1x 10. Right at the end of a razzing session. Well pleased and rather surprised!
    Just my opinion, tried it, liked it, bought it, love it.
    Need to get out on it more ;-)
    Apologies for typos!

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    @mudfish, I don't think I developed it, thats definitely Mondrakers gig, I moved it to what I was prepared to do with my money on a one off and based on previous experience, Chris was doing the same thing with his Frankendraker.

    You're right, I knew I would like it, but I wasn't brave enough to, or possibly experienced or good enough, to take it to the extreme for testing and then reign back like Mojo has.

    It has taught me a few new lessons and reinforced a few others, amongst which are.
    -The internet is full of sh*t.
    -Everyone is different and likes, or wants to like, different things.
    -Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;-)
    and most importantly
    -Don't judge a bike by the numbers unless you've ridden it :-)

    So I urge anyone who gets the chance to try one, then make your own mind up. There is no right answer, and contrary to a rather unfortunate Enduro-mtb quote, everyone else is not necessarily wrong, just not of the same opinion....we live, at present, in a democracy..
    Aka chainline...

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    What are you guys using for the drivetrain, shifters and chain guide?

    Cheers

    Robert

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    We have chatted Loamranger but for the record, Hope Crank, xtr shifter/mech (clutchless operation) Hope chainguide, XX1 10-42 cassette, Linderets Goat Link on xtr mech.
    Aka chainline...

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    SLX crank with Renthal single ring, 11sp XT shifter/mech and cassette, KMC 11sp chain and e.thirteen top chainguide.

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    Hi Pilot and Noskills

    Thanks for the info.

    Just joined the club and decided to go 1 x 11 XT mech, shifter and chain, Hope top chainguide and Renthal or RF 30T or 32T chain ring to start with to keep the cost down. I will upgrade later.

    Pilot/ Mudfish PM on it's way with some thoughts.

  40. #40
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    Initial thought was that this bike rolls really well, even with sticky rubber front and rear. MM SG vertstars both ends was equivalent to having Rock Razors on the back on my other bike.

    More thoughts to follow after some proper riding.

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    Long term feedback - Still loving my Geometron Longest

    I'm 6' 2.5" riding the Longest.
    A year in and I am still loving the Geometron, I must say never had a real long lasting affair with a bike before. The grass has always been greener. it's not now. I did think I was happy with my Nicolai AM - until I rode one of these, IT FITS!

    A couple of weeks ago I built up a new black frame with a -1 head cup from Works plus the longer travel rear end same as the_pilot. 5mm longer stays and a bigger shock this time with the Float compression lever for climbing.
    I wouldn't say the lever is necessary but it certainly feels just a touch more direct when pedalling smooth fire roads uphill. The shock still has al the standard adjustments and range so there is nothing about the lever to not like. As long as I remember to switch it off before I hit the gnar, that is.

    Name:  Geometron 2_400px.jpg
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    It didn't take me long to get used to riding the Geometron on my local trails last year and, even though they are tight, tree lined, and pretty flat the Geometron handles them with ease. Including the steep climbs where it's traction is amazing. Got to say it’s the funnest bike I've ridden there and my XC FS 100m 29er has been hanging up since I first threw a leg over the Geometron last August..

    So if you're thinking of it, don't hold back, I thought long and hard and for sure I made the right choice.

  42. #42
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    Guys
    Still loving the Geometron
    Amazing traction, handling is to die for. Long climbs are fine.
    Pretty much the same as above, Winter Shortys are off now and Mavic Charge + Quest back on ( great woods combo)
    If you are tall (5'11+) you need to find out what it's like to ride a bike that fits. Get yourself to Mojo or contact the_Pilot about a test.
    Happy Trails
    N
    Last edited by mudfish801; 05-05-2017 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Guys
    Still loving the Geometron
    Amazing traction, handling is to die for. Long climbs are fine.
    Pretty much the same as above, Winter Shortys are off now and Mavic Charge + Quest back on ( great woods combo)
    If you are tall (5'11+) you need to find out what it's like to ride a bike that fits. Get yourself to Mojo or contact the_Pilot about a test.
    Happy Trails
    N
    Totally agree. I have had mine 18 months now and still love riding it. I have the 650b version but I know a few people around these parts (FOD) that are really happy with the 29er Geometron.

  44. #44
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    How does the Geometron frame differ from the Nicolai Ion G16? Do Mojo just tweak the suspension or are there geo changes too? I was considering building up a Pole Evolonk 140 but these Nicolais/Geometrons look interesting too.

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    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"

    The Mojo bike is slacker and has a different BB width. Bearing spacing, tyre clearance, rear stiffness.
    The suspension is supplied by Mojo if you have Fox. You don't have to have Fox from Nicolai.
    Basically the G16 from Mojo and Nicolai is different in key details.
    They ride similarly and it's easy to configure the Nicolai version to the same angles, the change in rear stiffness will not make much difference to most people.

    The differences may change if Nicolai decide to follow the Mojo changes. They have done so far historically...keep an eye on Eurobike for that answer.


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  46. #46
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    Definitely try ride one

    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    How does the Geometron frame differ from the Nicolai Ion G16? Do Mojo just tweak the suspension or are there geo changes too? I was considering building up a Pole Evolonk 140 but these Nicolais/Geometrons look interesting too.
    Hey trail-blaser
    Can you get to Mojo to ride a Geomtron? Get one man, it'll change your life.
    When a bigger bike pedals so well and comes with Chris Porters pedigree on suspension AND geometry, why consider a frame with less travel?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Hey trail-blaser
    Can you get to Mojo to ride a Geomtron? Get one man, it'll change your life.
    When a bigger bike pedals so well and comes with Chris Porters pedigree on suspension AND geometry, why consider a frame with less travel?
    I'd love to get a try on one but I live in the US so not possible locally. At 6'2 I think this new geometry would suit me but I do have some concerns. I'm an average skilled rider with poor manualling and bunny hop skills so these long bikes worry me that it'll be even more difficult to try master those skills.

    60-70% of my riding is on tight twisty wooded trails with roots and rocks. The rest of the time I ride in the Western North Carolina mountains which is rocky and steep. I'm sire the geometry will be great for the mountains but will I struggle with a long bike on the tight twisty trails? Reviews talk about having to adjust your riding style which I open to but will it make me struggle and lose the enjoyment until I become adapted?

  48. #48
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    I am 6'2" and have meagre manual skills as I'm am old guy. Bunny hop - nope. Learning.
    Most of my riding is local woods. Pretty tight singletrack in amongst the trees and some rather steep rooty climbs.
    The Geometron excels on all of it. Far better than my "normal geometry" Nicolai AM that it replaced. I've made climbs I never thought I could. Learning to be a stand up pedaller and the Geometron really suits that too. Pedals better than my 100mm Pivot 29er. How can that be!
    When you go to the mountains you'll be amazed. But the tight trails will be fine too. I adapted pretty fast. You ride this geometry over the front I'd say.
    I have a 61 head angle (-1.5 headset) and a 26" fork crown which slows the steering.


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    Sounds like you ride similar type of trails. Good to hear that the geometry works on those too. Riding over the front is going to take a real conscious effort, as a few recent over the bar moments, one resulting in cracked ribs as me over compensating and hanging off the back more than I really should which in itself is causing issues when it comes to steering.

    What model and spec are you riding? I notice that most run the negative angle headset. It makes me wonder why don't Mojo just get the frames built with the slacker head angle to start with?

  50. #50
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    Largest. Stealth black. 175 travel. August 2016 model. My second Geometron. Yeah on the head angle but the headset does it easy. I'm far more than very happy.


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  51. #51
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    175 rear that is.


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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Sounds like you ride similar type of trails. Good to hear that the geometry works on those too. Riding over the front is going to take a real conscious effort, as a few recent over the bar moments, one resulting in cracked ribs as me over compensating and hanging off the back more than I really should which in itself is causing issues when it comes to steering.

    What model and spec are you riding? I notice that most run the negative angle headset. It makes me wonder why don't Mojo just get the frames built with the slacker head angle to start with?
    No one runs angleset on the current Mojo G16s, we adjusted the HA last year along with other changes to make the chainstays adjustable and give increased tyre clearance and compatibility with boost rear ends.
    Angleset are used on the short travel 29er G13 which is a Nicolai bike as opposed to a Mojo bike, although it has Mojo DNA. Nicolai didn't go quite as far as Mojo on the angles.


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  53. #53
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    Sounds like the newer Mojo version is very similar to mine (travel, angles) but better in some ways: Boost. Tyre clearance. Adjustable chainstays. Nice.


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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    No one runs angleset on the current Mojo G16s, we adjusted the HA last year along with other changes to make the chainstays adjustable and give increased tyre clearance and compatibility with boost rear ends.
    Angleset are used on the short travel 29er G13 which is a Nicolai bike as opposed to a Mojo bike, although it has Mojo DNA. Nicolai didn't go quite as far as Mojo on the angles.


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    Thanks for clarifying. I've just started looking at Mojo and Nicolai and got a bit confused since they both use G* model number. Can the Mojo G16 run 29er tyres?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Sounds like the newer Mojo version is very similar to mine (travel, angles) but better in some ways: Boost. Tyre clearance. Adjustable chainstays. Nice.


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    'Better' well not necessarily, it was a result of the testing on bikes like yours as you know
    Boost is, well, theoretically better but most is don't break wheels anyway, travel became an option. Call it abolition from special features to std ones



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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. I've just started looking at Mojo and Nicolai and got a bit confused since they both use G* model number. Can the Mojo G16 run 29er tyres?
    Yep. 29wheels if you want using the right fork, 27.5 or hybrid. Have a look on the other GeoMetron thread for oodles of info.



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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. I've just started looking at Mojo and Nicolai and got a bit confused since they both use G* model number. Can the Mojo G16 run 29er tyres?
    Mojo have Nicolai make their Version of the G16 as it's more extreme. The G13 and G19 are Nicolai models.


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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. I've just started looking at Mojo and Nicolai and got a bit confused since they both use G* model number. Can the Mojo G16 run 29er tyres?
    Yeah, strange they differ, easy though. Just buy from Chris at Mojo to get the latest developments.
    You might like a 29 on the front. Don't bother in the rear though 650 rear works well and pumps /steers better . There are very knowledgeable owners out there running the G16 that way.


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfish801 View Post
    Yeah, strange they differ, easy though. Just buy from Chris at Mojo to get the latest developments.
    You might like a 29 on the front. Don't bother in the rear though 650 rear works well and pumps /steers better . There are very knowledgeable owners out there running the G16 that way
    Hey t-b
    Have you spotted the other Geometron thread?
    http://forums.mtbr.com/nicolai/nicol...d-1016388.html

    Plus - you mentioned broken ribs. But worry not about getting over the front, it just feels natural. I broke my collarbone on my second mountainbike ride back in the late 80's and hung over the back for years and years, despite trying not to once trainers stopped teaching it as a technique.

    The Geometron finally made getting into the right position feel natural for me, the reach lets me move forward without that feeling of teetering over the front. .
    Even buying XL bikes I never had one that fitted right, of course the Geometron reach is longer, but also the more balanced chainstay length makes a big contribution to rider balance position.
    I SO wish I'd had it for my first Alps trip in 2007, I was on a Spesh Enduro SL (XL) and I just couldn't get any front grip on the fast gravelly fire roads. Those chain stays were WAY too short and the balance position was too far back.
    Of course, I (very) occasionally have to remind myself to push for more grip rather than move back or brake (in fear) when a corner tightens or a slide starts. It's pretty natural now - but that collarbone break was rather painful.
    Since buying my first Geometron in 2015 my riding enthusiasm has been totally rekindled. Its amazing to ride a bike that really fits. So much so, I might even test the extra longest next. And a 29 front wheel.
    Even at my age, I feel my riding skill (and fun) gets better EVERY ride.
    The hardest thing to believe is how well it climbs.
    Maybe you get on a flight to the UK and try get to ride Pilots one? ';~}

    Make sure you get the right fork offset, mine's a 26" CSU and a 27.5 wheel. That offset means the bars turn more at low speeds and that helps me thread my 800 bar through the 770mm spaced trees that seem to predominate where my local builders create trails.

    Can you tell I am enthusiastic ';~}


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  60. #60
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    well.. how can i start talking about this bike? ehmm... well.. just... another level.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-ok2.jpg  

    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-img_2189.jpg  

    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-img_2190.jpg  

    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"-img_2186.jpg  


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    Now that is a lovely beast Adriano.

    Hey the Pilot - yes please, a Mojo G15 with a tad more rear travel than current slated 145mm.

  62. #62
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    Mojo / Nicolai / Geometron, next step - "forward geometry plus"

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    Now that is a lovely beast Adriano.

    Hey the Pilot - yes please, a Mojo G15 with a tad more rear travel than current slated 145mm.
    You already have it! It's called a Mojo G16.
    Here is it is a a pretty damned great 170mm 29er.


    You can run it at 155mm 29er


    Or 170mm hybrid



    Or regular 27.5


    All the same bike of course (yes one of them was black and not raw)

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  63. #63
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    Thank you for that Pilot. Great service and advice mate. Yep across the raw and black thing, hehe. Yes I have been lurking and watching these developments. I love your work, I'm not being critical just selective of my own wishes. I tend to prefer low BBs. I current run a MegaTrail V2, so I well love the 77deg SA and love the low BB.

    I have read your comments somewhere saying Mojo prefers 330-340 range for BB. I concur. I think these G16 29ers are taller than that aren't they - 350? And that I guess was why I was wondering if a lower big 29er could be had and whether the new G15 gives that opportunity to easily get to 340 or just under. What do you think.

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    I have asked this in the past but what is the max tire that I can run? 2.8?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    Thank you for that Pilot. Great service and advice mate. Yep across the raw and black thing, hehe. Yes I have been lurking and watching these developments. I love your work, I'm not being critical just selective of my own wishes. I tend to prefer low BBs. I current run a MegaTrail V2, so I well love the 77deg SA and love the low BB.

    I have read your comments somewhere saying Mojo prefers 330-340 range for BB. I concur. I think these G16 29ers are taller than that aren't they - 350? And that I guess was why I was wondering if a lower big 29er could be had and whether the new G15 gives that opportunity to easily get to 340 or just under. What do you think.
    Yes, 335 to 340 for the 27.5 or hybrid..
    My opinion is 340mm doesn't work as well for the 29er. 350mm is better requiring less effort to steer the rear wheel and better braking weight transfer. Interestingly giving the same be drop as the 27.5.
    You are correct the G15 will give you that (340mm approx) bb height as does the G13. I prefer a G13 with the higher BB but with a -2 angleset
    First thing I'd do with a G15 is fit an angleset. Well actually the first thing I'd do with a G15 is swop it for a Mojo G16
    BUT we are all different. Just because I prefer the higher BB doesn't mean that you would. I'm not an big guy so don't like to have to muscle bikes around.




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    Thanks for that. I'm not closed to your suggestions or advice. Interesting point about the convergence of BB drop between wheel sizes. There is probably a sweet spot as you suggest.

    Of course every change can bring new compromises or degrees of compromise.

    I will go back and retry some of your suggestions re BB. I can run low and then run high and see what comes of it. Even if it just tests whether I am too focused on a BB drop number. I love it low and I probably discount the negatives because I thrive on the positive elements - high G force corner railing, haha.

    I'll re check my desires. I am wondering could there be a G16 that could be a tad lower and even if that was with say 160 rear and 170 front. Is there room to move around a little in the brief?

    Thanks again.

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