Just out of interest (road content).......- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Just out of interest (road content).......

    Has anybody got any pics of the Nicolai Argon Road frame built up? It looks a quality frame, not the lightest, but stiff and strong. I might pull the plug as my long commutes will get covered better with a road machine. Can't find many pictures or reviews though. Can you good people help me out?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Can you good people help me out?
    Of course we can ...








  3. #3
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    Last edited by Testmaen; 12-10-2007 at 04:33 AM.

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  5. #5
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    The rear triangle looks as strong as an ox, bet they are plenty stiff....... Great pictures
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  6. #6
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    Hey Testmaen, nice pictures, thanks for that. By looking at those, I may just pull the plug in the new year. As Whafe says, looks super strong, by the way, do you own any of the machines?

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    No, unfortunately not. They are all from german forums.

  8. #8
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    What Nicolai say on their website suggests that it is a pretty stiff frame: no power lost but not the comfiest for long rides on less than perfect roads.

  9. #9
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    I have a Colnago President roadie, which is so so comfy, not sure if this would be a confy ride for those 4 hour rides etc as perttime mentions above. But for sure nada power loss.

    Am sure there will be reasoning behind the whys etc of the frame.

    Lorni, am sure you would want comfort for the UK roads.... In New Zealand, people shy away big time for the USA built road frames quite some, purely re the fact that the USA roads are so good and smooth compared to NZ and European roads, so comfort is not so great.... But what woudl I know, I love MTB and ride on the road for fitness and ease of getting out there sometimes.....

    But get one, then we will all know what its like when you report back.....LOL
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
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    As much as I love my Nicolai's there road bike don't make much sense, well unless you are riding on a smooth glass surface road.

    The trick on a frame, any frame, is to transmit (transform) as much of the human energy into Mothion, but also isolate and avoid the vibration and jolts of the road so the rider can be more efficient and less tyred, specially in the long term.

    In this case the seat stays on this bikes look to be far to stiff with very little vertical compliance, plus it look like the use the same design regardless of the size and body weight of the rider (what may work for a 100 kilo/190cms man, usually is to harsh for a 50kilo/160cms person)

  11. #11
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    Very good points, when you read the text on the Nicolai website on this frame, it for sure has a specific purpose of which I dont think all day or 6 hour rides are one of those purposes........ Read the last sentence from the text taken from the website.....

    I stick with my Colnago for the road and Nicolai for offroad...LOL

    The Argon Road is a very special road racing frame. Due to its high stiffness the Argon Road is especially suitable for time trials, Alpine stages and similar criteria. In a comparison test with 11 top road frames from some of our competitors, the German EFBe Institute certified the Argon Road had a torsional rigidity of 10,1 N/mm and a longitudinal rigidity of 156,3 N/mm. No other frame tested was as rigid. On long stages or extended training rides a less rigid wheel set would increase the riding comfort.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
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    Many of my road rides would not exceed four hours anyway. Being 230lb, I am dubious about carbon, but fancy the strength of the Nicolai. As mentioned, a less rigid wheelset might the savior, but what sort? Mavic or Fulcrum?

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    There is also some room for additional comfort, if you choose the other components carefully. Especially the tires have a big potential. Instead of using a standard 23mm tire, you could take a 25 or 28mm. I think to remember a german raodbike magazine wrote, that a 25mm tire has a 27% larger air volume, than a 23mm. If you donīt need to squeeze that last bit of rolling friction out of the tire, you could run instead of 145psi, just 110psi and not only your butt will thank you.

    Instead of a super stiff 31,8 bar/stem combination, take a 25,4 combo. The same with the seatpost, although you are much more restricted by the seattube diameter, but there are some more flexible materials, than "arm thick carbon". Also great potential in the saddle and of course the fork.

  14. #14
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    Good advice, many thanks for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    There is also some room for additional comfort, if you choose the other components carefully. Especially the tires have a big potential. Instead of using a standard 23mm tire, you could take a 25 or 28mm. I think to remember a german raodbike magazine wrote, that a 25mm tire has a 27% larger air volume, than a 23mm. If you donīt need to squeeze that last bit of rolling friction out of the tire, you could run instead of 145psi, just 110psi and not only your butt will thank you.

    Instead of a super stiff 31,8 bar/stem combination, take a 25,4 combo. The same with the seatpost, although you are much more restricted by the seattube diameter, but there are some more flexible materials, than "arm thick carbon". Also great potential in the saddle and of course the fork.
    But what is the Point then....!?!?!?

    First Big fat tires are are not going to fit, the chainstays are super dupper short.

    lose spokes & flexy rims are going to drag on the brakes and make the bike much slower, the idea is not even funny.

    yeah you can install a titanium seat post and a carbon fiber stem (they actually work) but trying to make a super rigid frame "Softer" is going to leave you with a bike that is heavier and slower that something a little more flexible but optimize from the start...

    This frames remind me of the hyper rigid cannondale frames, that need to run a "Headshock" to make them more compliant, what a Joke that was..

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe

    Lorni, am sure you would want comfort for the UK roads.... In New Zealand, people shy away big time for the USA built road frames quite some, purely re the fact that the USA roads are so good and smooth compared to NZ and European roads,
    is my sarcasm detector faulty? We marvel at the road quality when we go to europe. US bikes are probably stiffer because *insert americans-are-fat-joke here*
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  17. #17
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    Being a bit on the heavy side, I think I would appreciate a strong and stiff frame too. Also, even on a mountain bike, I like instant acceleration and can live with slightly inferior comfort.

    About wheel stiffness:
    Am I correct to assume that a wheel that is very stiff for a light guy might be nicely compliant for a heavy guy?

    What works for one rider might not work for another. I doubt a sub 5kg road bike would be ideal under me...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto
    But what is the Point then....!?!?!?

    First Big fat tires are are not going to fit, the chainstays are super dupper short.

    lose spokes & flexy rims are going to drag on the brakes and make the bike much slower, the idea is not even funny.

    yeah you can install a titanium seat post and a carbon fiber stem (they actually work) but trying to make a super rigid frame "Softer" is going to leave you with a bike that is heavier and slower that something a little more flexible but optimize from the start...

    This frames remind me of the hyper rigid cannondale frames, that need to run a "Headshock" to make them more compliant, what a Joke that was..
    What I wanted to say is, that if it has to be that particular frame and you consider the frame/complete bike after the first few rides as to harsh, that you still have options. Everyone has decide for themselves, if that makes any sense ...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    What I wanted to say is, that if it has to be that particular frame and you consider the frame/complete bike after the first few rides as to harsh, that you still have options. Everyone has decide for themselves, if that makes any sense ...
    Oh i Totally agree...

    Just just need to be very aware of the issues, before you spend the money on such a bike like this

    I have Two Nicolai's my self, some of their designs are amazing some are just okay (same systems as other bikes that maybe lighter, faster cheaper but not as elaborate) and a few like this are just to single minded to really make much sense (and I'm 220 pounds, 185cms kind of clide and I need super rigid frames)

  20. #20
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    I rescue this thread with some questions.

    First, at this time I need to know the gometry of the argon road frame and in the web page i dont see it. I read a 2009 geo but only has a 54 cm top tube in horizontal and i need a 51,5 (51 to 52 is perfect)

    Other question is about the type of the geo. I like a semi compact geo, i don't like the "real" horizontal top tube.

    regards

  21. #21
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    The German page seems to have a link to a "tech sheet". 54 is still the smallest they list, and if you want a sloping TT you'd need a custom frame anyway.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...20&output=html

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  22. #22
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    uff, custom frame are very expensive :-(. 600€ plus :-(

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