Helius FR: Help choosing suspension?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 31 of 31
  1. #1
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573

    Helius FR: Help choosing suspension?

    Hi all,
    I'm on the verge of ordering a Helius FR, hoping to do it this week. It'll replace my Cannondale Prophet SL, which I fear might break if I go on jumping like I started doing as of late. Discussed some cool custom colour options with Karl, and for a 'small' fee he'll paint it pearlescent white

    Anyway, I've been doing loads of research on which components to get (half of the fun of buying/building a new bike really), but can't make up my mind on the suspension. I really like my Cannondale Lefty Max fork, which is coil sprung and very supple and smooth. My only experience with an air fork is the Fox Float RL80, which I didn't like at all: not very smooth, no small bump compliance.

    So, for the front, I've sort of narrowed it down to either the Fox 36 Talas (or perhaps the Marzocchi 55 ATA, but there seem to be some reliability issues with Marzocchi air forks), or the 36 Vanilla. I like the idea of the Talas' travel adjust, but I fear it will feel a bit too similar to the Float I had (even though that had half the suspension travel). For the Vanilla, I like the coil, but fear it might bottom out a bit quick on big jumps due to its linearity (as happens a lot with the Lefty). It also lacks travel adjust. For those without travel adjust on their Helius, how well does it climb? Anyone out there with a Vanilla or Talas who can assure me I've got it all wrong?

    For those who've read through all this so far, I'm also in dubio on the rear shock. The Roco TST (WC isn't in the correct size I think) or Fox DHX5? Standard Roco seems to be better than a standard DHX. Pushed DHX seems to be better than a standard Roco, but how does a pushed Roco compair to a pushed DHX? Oh yeah, another thing to consider, the blue DHX will match better with the rest of my components

    Right, that's it for now I hope someone can shed a bit of light on some of my questions (money not too important btw). Though I understand not a lot of people will have experience with both a pushed Roco and a pushed DHX

    Cheers!
    Daan

  2. #2
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,787
    I have a 36 Talas on my Terremoto and so far I like it very much.... although I don't go "big"... not yet anyhow...

    you should also consider the Lyrik coil, since you seem to want coil and travel adjust

  3. #3
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Bozzzzz, cool to hear, your reasons sound the same as why I am moving to the Helius FR.... Hardest thing is choosing the colours though for sure....

    I like you had a small dilema so to speak in choosing the fork... On my MotoLite, I have a Pike, which has been great, air fork too... But no good for the Helius FR, I then thought of the Lyrik as Cris mentions, I have a 2 Step Air Totem on my Nucleon too, which has been good.... And then I have had Marz forks, which have been great, but what I have read lately on here has not been great on the new stuff..

    It then led me to look at Fox, of which I have never had before. Plus I wanted a fork with a 1.5 steerer, which narrows things down... The Talas has been getting great reviews in general for th e08 forks thus far, odd issue, but for sure the vast majority has been good. And this is from some reliable peeps on here i have ridden with. I listen to what say Err, EBX and FM have to say................... So yes am going with the Fox Talas RS.. I also looked at the Wotan to, but no 1.5..........

    I am going with a coil shock too, am going with a CCDB, of which I have one on my Nucleon, love the shock..... It is something to look at, they are not cheap for sure, but you mentioned the cost wasnt so so important...

    I had an RP3 out of interest, I then got an RP23 of which I got Push'd... Good shocks, but not for the Helius FR in my book....

    For an all round strong as aggresive XC AM ride, i would go coil on the rear.......

    Keep us up to speed, be keen also to see apost in here on your build spec...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  4. #4
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Cheers guys. Choosing colours wasn't that hard though for me. I actually wanted to get a car, a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo2 (best rally car ever made, for those who haven't heard of it ) in bianco perlato. However, running costs and insurance are so outragious, I have decided to get a new bike instead, but in the same colour as the car

    Anyway, back to the suspension. I left out the Lyrik as I've heard of lots of problems with creaky crowns. Don't like the way the Wotan looks, so have left that out as well (hey, that's important too, right ). I'll go and check out some more reviews on the Talas. It has everything I want and is reliable, but I'm just not sure about getting an air fork (mainly for it's small bump compliance). Yes, money isn't a big issue. I'm saving lots of money by not buying the car So this has to become the best bike I can think of (within certain limits of course, ie. I'm not getting an Industry 9 wheelset). Will do research on the Double Barrel too. How much better you think it is than a pushed DHX/Roco, Whafe?

  5. #5
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Cheers guys. Choosing colours wasn't that hard though for me. I actually wanted to get a car, a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo2 (best rally car ever made, for those who haven't heard of it ) in bianco perlato. However, running costs and insurance are so outragious, I have decided to get a new bike instead, but in the same colour as the car

    Anyway, back to the suspension. I left out the Lyrik as I've heard of lots of problems with creaky crowns. Don't like the way the Wotan looks, so have left that out as well (hey, that's important too, right ). I'll go and check out some more reviews on the Talas. It has everything I want and is reliable, but I'm just not sure about getting an air fork (mainly for it's small bump compliance). Yes, money isn't a big issue. I'm saving lots of money by not buying the car So this has to become the best bike I can think of (within certain limits of course, ie. I'm not getting an Industry 9 wheelset). Will do research on the Double Barrel too. How much better you think it is than a pushed DHX/Roco, Whafe?

    Well first things first, yes indeed a very cery cool car, couldnt actually disagree with as a rally car.............. I so enjoyed my rally driving course in New Zealand... Was a blast...

    Bikes

    I would have to say, I feel the CCDB will eat a DHX / Rocco for dinner... Really do

    Have ridden DHX Coil, had that shock on 2 bike sof mine, have not experienced the Rocco, for sure hear very good things about it..... The CCDB is the monty though, totally adjustbale, just poetry in motion.....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    76
    I'm more partial towards the 037. Maybe not the as accomplished at Delta, but a gorgeous shape.


  7. #7
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Yes indeed the Lancia rally cars are great...... I do and have always loved the lines of the 911...........

    Sit alongside a Helius FR very well, the best of German engineering.....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  8. #8
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Yes indeed the Lancia rally cars are great...... I do and have always loved the lines of the 911...........

    Sit alongside a Helius FR very well, the best of German engineering.....
    oh yeah! german engineering!


    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/cmadrigal/1817551610/" title="Made In Germany on a chainstay... SWEET! by cmadrigal, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/1817551610_7d24b435ef_b.jpg" width="1024" height="684" alt="Made In Germany on a chainstay... SWEET!" /></a>

  9. #9
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,787
    ...
    Last edited by crisillo; 12-05-2007 at 05:29 AM.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    76
    Will my MkIV VW R32 suffice for german engineering?

  11. #11
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Hehe, yeah, the 037 isn't bad either But ever had a look at what the very rare stradale version will cost?

    I'm more partial to Italian stuff than German, so (to bring it back to bikes) that's why I'd like Marzocchi suspension, if only they were a bit more reliable. Too bad they're made in Taiwan now as well. Roco still an option though. Oh well, at least I'll go for Formula brakes and a Selle Italia saddle. Will post the specs I have in mind tonight. Anyone got some thoughts on the Vanilla's bottom out resistance btw, will the high speed compression adjustment help a lot with this?

  12. #12
    wyrd bi ful rd
    Reputation: chinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,725
    I reckon this is more FR than any of the above ...

    baja bug.jpg
    Last edited by chinaman; 12-11-2007 at 01:43 PM.

  13. #13
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Yeah baby..................

    Go German all the way, Nicolai Frame, Magura Brakes, Magura Fork, Continental Tyres...... LOL

    R32 gets up and boogies though! Yeah ha
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  14. #14
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Nah, just having the frame from Germany is enough German for me

    Anyway, here's what I had in mind for the specs. Shock is still open for debate. Any comments welcome of course. One more thing, I take it ovalising your headtube with a standard headset like this is very unlikely and one of those steel deep insertion cup headsets isn't really necessary?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Nah, just having the frame from Germany is enough German for me

    Anyway, here's what I had in mind for the specs. Shock is still open for debate. Any comments welcome of course. One more thing, I take it ovalising your headtube with a standard headset like this is very unlikely and one of those steel deep insertion cup headsets isn't really necessary?

    I agree that it is unlikely, but IIRC it is a requirement for warranty (no idea if Nicolai would actually enforce it, but it is written)

    http://www.nicolai.net/download/pdf/...h-17082006.pdf
    Damages to the head tube, following the mounting of an inappropriate headset despite our recommendations, will not be covered
    by our warranty. This is why we recommend the use of headsets with 22 mm deep bearing cups (NICOLAI Fett Set, CHRIS
    KING Steelset for example) on all models (except Argon, Argon Road, Nonius, Saturn und Helius CC) exposed to high stress
    and loads through jumping and other types of riding. These deeper cups will allow the force of an impact to be more evenly
    distributed throughout the head tube area. Should your frame need to be rework in order to receive this type of headset, the job
    must be done by a NICOLAI mechanic or an authorised dealer, workshop or distributor.

  16. #16
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Boozzzz, the build looks sweet....

    That is some big time rims though, I run those on my FR bike.... Srong as can be, have had many wheelsets build using those rims.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: samwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    I agree that it is unlikely, but IIRC it is a requirement for warranty (no idea if Nicolai would actually enforce it, but it is written)
    They refused a warranty for a frame with an ovalized headtube, so that's not a good idea to have a standart headset
    I've chosen the accros DH with 22mm of insertion, not really heavy, french team nicolai has also chosen it for their helius FR
    Never enough singletracks !

  18. #18
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,787
    Quote Originally Posted by samwell
    They refused a warranty for a frame with an ovalized headtube, so that's not a good idea to have a standart headset
    I've chosen the accros DH with 22mm of insertion, not really heavy, french team nicolai has also chosen it for their helius FR
    good to know they are actually enforcing it.... so better be safe than sorry, Boozzz

    cool tip on the headset, samwell!

  19. #19
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    The new CK 1.5 HS have nice deep bearing cups..... Mmmmmm
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  20. #20
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Yeah, heavy duty rims. I destroyed the DT4.2d rims (I know, not the strongest) on my Prophet twice, of which one had some serious consequences for my health. Replaced it with 5.1d after that, and had no problems since. But I thought for this build I might as well go with the 823, and be even more on the safe side (and tubeless too).

    Thanks for the advice. If I'm going 1 1/8 I'll go for a deeper headset. The CK 1.5 indeed looks sweet, but I read that Nicolai uses the same size ends for the tubes on both 1 1/8 and 1.5 headsets, thereby not adding any stiffness advantage by going 1.5 (as for this the tubes should be wider at the ends with 1.5). Can anyone confirm?

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    Boozzz
    I've answered the fork question on my other thread but to add a bit more info.The Helius FR climbs very well with the Fox Van and at no point have I felt I'd like travel adjust. Unlike Simons experiences with the Talas, I could never get it set up right. It either bottomed all over the place or was too harsh depending on the air pressure. this was an 07 model though The 08 does feel better but I'm still not entirely convinced.

    I've yet to try different shocks on the Helius but tried loads on the Turner. You won't go wrong with the Roco TST though. The rear end is truly stunning on these things(the more I ride it the more impressed I am) and I'm sure thats more frame than shock related. I'd like to try a plain Van to see how it performs. I've used a Pushed Van and a Pushed DHX on the Turner and while they did what I wanted(control bobbing and midrange wallow) I don't think it would be necessary on the Helius. On saying that, i probably will mess about with shocks and will no doubt end up with a CCDB as i just can't help myself

  22. #22
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Thanks Dipper! It'll be the Van for sure now. Now to decide on 1.125 or 1.5" headtube...

    On the shocks, I'm leaning a bit towards the DHX at the moment, mainly because it seems to be almost 200g lighter than the Roco. From what I understand, you like the Roco TST better than the (Pushed) DHX (on the Turner)? I keep reading all these different experiences, makes choosing so hard

    The CCDB also keeps flashing through my mind, but then there's the price that I just can't justify for a shock, so it'll have to be the roco or dhx.

    Cheers!
    Daan

  23. #23
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Thanks Dipper! It'll be the Van for sure now. Now to decide on 1.125 or 1.5" headtube...
    Daan, I would go the 1.5 Headtube, gives you far more options for the future, having the option of running either 1 1/8 or 1.5 forks is a nice option, as am sure you will agree....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  24. #24
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Daan, I would go the 1.5 Headtube, gives you far more options for the future, having the option of running either 1 1/8 or 1.5 forks is a nice option, as am sure you will agree....
    Yes, I think I will indeed, because it just looks, well, way more massivvvly wicked, kno' wha' Ah mean

  25. #25
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Yes, I think I will indeed, because it just looks, well, way more massivvvly wicked, kno' wha' Ah mean
    Sure do brah, totally, part of the reasoning for me....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    just an update on the Van Boozzz.

    Make sure you go for the RC2. It really makes a huge difference. I'm almost finished dialling it in now. i was mentioning before about the lack of small bump compliance but I've got that sorted now. i was gradually increasing the HS comp to help with bottom out resistance but was barking up the wrong tree. should have been adding more LS. I've now got 0 clicks on the HS and 6 on the LS and it's very smooth. A wee bit more LS I think and that should be it.

    It also works best with quite a lot of rebound dialled in. To the extent that it feels quite slow during a car park test but control on the trail is excellent.

    The Roco is still working well but i've noticed it tying itself in knots a couple of times(small knots right enough!) and being a wee bit bouncy occasionally. Again, more rebound helps but I feel I could be doing with better compression adjustment....Or maybe i'm just talking myself into a CCDB

  27. #27
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    just an update on the Van Boozzz.

    Make sure you go for the RC2. It really makes a huge difference. I'm almost finished dialling it in now. i was mentioning before about the lack of small bump compliance but I've got that sorted now. i was gradually increasing the HS comp to help with bottom out resistance but was barking up the wrong tree. should have been adding more LS. I've now got 0 clicks on the HS and 6 on the LS and it's very smooth. A wee bit more LS I think and that should be it.

    It also works best with quite a lot of rebound dialled in. To the extent that it feels quite slow during a car park test but control on the trail is excellent.

    The Roco is still working well but i've noticed it tying itself in knots a couple of times(small knots right enough!) and being a wee bit bouncy occasionally. Again, more rebound helps but I feel I could be doing with better compression adjustment....Or maybe i'm just talking myself into a CCDB
    Sounds good Dipper! I think it's about time for me to order now Just to find a good bikeshop that's willing to ship, as there's nothing nearby here in Cambridge. You're right btw, from your reasoning I can just hear the Double Barrel coming

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    Is that Cambridge in the UK? If so give me a shout. i'll sort you out with a set.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    just checked your profile and I see you are in the UK

    I'll PM you in a mo

  30. #30
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    573
    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    Is that Cambridge in the UK? If so give me a shout. i'll sort you out with a set.
    It is. D'you have a shop nearby then Dipper?

    Edit: Ah, I see you're quite a way up north I'll await your pm.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,656

    Helius FR help choosing suspension

    Boozz, I have an 05 FR fitted with Wotan and CCDB and it works really well. Total weight of bike 32lb.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.