Err, What is this sexy on a stick Nicolai Frame- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Err, What is this sexy on a stick Nicolai Frame

    Err, let us know what this frame is.?

    Is it a new version UFO DS frame?

    Looks very cool, any numbers on it?

    Nicolai peeps, what are your thoughts on the look of this frame... mmmmmmmmmmm
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  2. #2
    CAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Nicolai peeps, what are your thoughts on the look of this frame... mmmmmmmmmmm

    Damn it, it's in my color
    Looks like the new M-Pire DH. Very Nice.

  3. #3
    Err
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    It's the Ion and it replaces the M-Pire.

    The details of the geo are not public yet. They will be announced on 8/25 I believe. There will be one at Interbike this year as well.

    At this point we know that it has about 8" of travel, uses a 83mm BB, 150mm rear hub spacing. Just speculating that it should weigh around 3lbs less than the M-Pire (closer to the Helius-ST).

    I'm anxiously awaiting the rest of the info, wondering if this will make a good freerider or if it will be dedicated DH race geo.

  4. #4
    CAO
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    is that a second pivot location at the main pivot? is it for a different suspension rate or to change the geometry?

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    No, it's a reinforcement for the shock mount.

  6. #6
    CAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    No, it's a reinforcement for the shock mount.
    I don't know if we're looking at the same pivot, please excuse my bad drawing.
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  7. #7
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    Where is the GBoxx, sheesh, deral's a re a thing of the past...

    mmmm Interesting, cant wait to hear on this one, looks hot.......That bottom stay is built like a brick sh!thouse, look at the size of that bad boy...

    CAO, that area around your well, freehand circle, looks real interesting.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    It looks welded along the seat tube.

  9. #9
    Err
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    I'm 99% sure that the bar going from just above the BB to the mount for the shock linkage is just a brace. I have to guess that they wanted to protect that mount. Possibly from the forces exerted from an extremely harsh bottom-out?

    Whafe- I have 0 info on the G-BOXX2 that the rest of the public doesn't already have. I'm really wondering if we're going to see an exciting announcement on the 25th. I'd quite like a G-BOXX2 freeride frame.

  10. #10
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    Dudes!!!
    I was waiting for someone to post up about this
    If it is not too home school sketch ball (ie bad idea for nicolai), I can put that pic above into some programs I have here at the lab and get us some prelim geo numbers! I did it with pics of the blindside when it came out as just pics. Was within .5 degrees and .5" of all the posted geo numbers when they were released.

    What does anyone think...?

    DAMN sick bike. That thing is gonna be SUPER stout!!
    Ohh and it looks as though there are additional mount positions and 1 other travel adjust position. As always with nicolai, adjustable geo and travel!

  11. #11
    CAO
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    what can i say, my freehand skills suck...but it does look like a hole there for a second pivot location. just an early photo I know but work is slow.

  12. #12
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    Ok,
    So here is some more info on the german forums
    www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=281771
    Anyone translate any good info out of that?

    Also, if you blow the pic up large, I agree with CAO it looks like there are extra "holes" or slots for the bottom pivot to move towards the frame and up slightly along that "track." Doing this would shorten the WB a little and possibly change the ride characteristics?
    I have never heard or seen such a thing?
    Maybe those slots are just that...more Nicolai fancy holes

    mmmmmmmm Me likey!

  13. #13
    CAO
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    still working on my German... lots of universal "Sweets"

    some larger photos
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  14. #14
    Err
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    Booner, I believe those slots you see are part of the clamping mechanism for the main pivot. Just speculating here, but that would be similar to the way the linkage attaches on the Helius. I'll take lots of pics when I'm at Interbike, I assure you

  15. #15
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    Haha, yeah, your prolly right That makes way more sense anyway.
    I guess I am just jonesing for a Nicolai with a rear mech system to adjust the chainstay length!

    Hope you have a blast at I bike! Think Nicolai will have a very large booth there this year?
    Wonder what other kinds of goodies they got up their sleeves for us this year?

  16. #16
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    The one below the shock is a cable mount, for sure there will be the ability to make cahnges in the geo, thats there trademark isnt it?

    Its not a high res picture, but it looks far less construction looking for want of a better word. You either love the raw construction look or you dont, and well, i am very partial to it... Having spent a week on mine, it is a fantastic bike................. And this ION looks stella.............

    Be cool Booner to see some estimated geo's etc, feed the hunger....

    This one warranted its own thread.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    Anyone translate any good info out of that?
    not much new info..everything will be released and available for test riding at the "house fair" @ nicolai HQ, 24.8. to 25.8.

    Horstlink four bar,
    220 mm travel,
    150x12 mm rear axle, Maxle compatible,
    83 mm BSA BB,
    lighter than the M-Pire,
    more or less the same price (as M-Pire i suppose)
    DHX 5.0 is the stock shock (shock length 222 (223) mm)

  18. #18
    Err
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    There are clearly (almost) two sock mount points on the linkage end, which will change the travel. I'll take a wild guess that it'll be somewhere in the .5 to 1.0" range.

    At the forward shock mount, the trademark shuttle is there as expected to provide HT angle and BB height adj.

    Boone was hoping for chainstay lenght adjustment. Something that Intense used to do and Knolly now does very well. I'd love to see this as an option as well.

  19. #19
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    OK Dudes,
    Here is what my messing about comes up with for geo number right now. (Angles to come shortly as this is the hardest part):

    It looks like this one is a size large: )all these numbers are based on a hypothetical 17.2" chainstay length. I can recalculate based on any chainstay...if want others let me know but these make good sense so far)
    CS: 17.2"
    TTactual: 21.8"
    TT effective: 22.9"
    ST: 18.2"
    Shock stroke: 2.75
    Eye-eye: 8.75

    OK, so with 8" of travel and a 2.75" that gives us a 2.9:1 leverage ratio on a horst link bike
    with the pivot just above and behind the BB. With 7.5" of travel that yeilds 2.7:1

    So, it looks as though this frame is damn close to what the old m-pire was, as they have stated I will work hard on some geo numbers and see what I can get. All these above numbers should be +/- 0.5"s.

    Enjoy!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    Boone was hoping for chainstay lenght adjustment. Something that Intense used to do and Knolly now does very well. I'd love to see this as an option as well.
    I'd like to see it too. Though I'm still partial to the Ventana method which includes replaceable dropouts.

    Any other models getting revised?
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  21. #21
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    Very interesting stuff and numbers Booner....

    The mind boggles!
    Time will reveal more...
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  22. #22
    lazy piston
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    Tell me more about the Helius range I want to know whether I should have waited for another year to order my frame or my '07 is ok

  23. #23
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    Smith...good question

    Whafe, I had a go at the geo angles last night and I could not quite come up with something that made sense. Just dont have a reference. I would assume since the geo distances are almost dead on to the old m-pire then I think it would be safe to assume the angles are going to be about the same. HA about 65 with a big fork and the SA may be slightly steeper (effective ~71)??
    These could be pretty nice for me at least. With a 66 or totem you should have about 65.5 or 66 with an upright seat tube angle. Set that thing in 7,5 X 7 and RIPPPPPP!!

    Smith, to really answer your question...well the helius will be a more pedal friendly rig with steeper angles (both HA and SA). It will be more of a FR runner than a DH ripper. This new rig looks like it is gonna be a mean bastard! Very well suited for DH with slack angles and such. However with the right build the ion could do FR pretty well. These two frames, ion and helius to me will most likely be similar but from different ends of the spectrum of FR/DH (helius more FR; ion more DH) Err whatdya think?

    At any rate, you can never go wrong with a helius, super bikes, solid rippers that have great resale value

  24. #24
    Err
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    As Boone said, doubt you'll be disappointed in the Helius. Which model do you have? FR, ST, CC?

    I'm fairly certain the ION is going to be dialed for DH racing. I suspect a hair over 17" stays, 65 deg HT and a fairly low BB. It will probably be hard to set this bike up at 67 deg HT as the BB will prob be too low. We'll see though.

  25. #25
    lazy piston
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    boone, Err thanks for the replies
    I own an '07 FR. If the angles are the only thing that's going to change in '08, it's absolutely fine with me since the 07 has enough holes & bolts to play with the angles.

    To tell the truth, there's not much I would have liked to change to make the FR a perfect frame Probably even lower standover height (although mine is already a custom one with lowered top tube), some sort of on-the-fly travel adjustment (a QR instead of the bolt maybe?), and of course it could lose a bit of weight

    Hmm, I'm also wondering if there will be a refined version of Nucleon AMX. Maybe when I tire of my Helius (hope it's not happening in 5 years or so ) I might be looking at a lightish all-mountain internal gearbox frame from Nicolai.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    Hmm, I'm also wondering if there will be a refined version of Nucleon AMX. Maybe when I tire of my Helius (hope it's not happening in 5 years or so ) I might be looking at a lightish all-mountain internal gearbox frame from Nicolai.
    Will be interesting to see what comes of the Nucleon AMX for this next year, I dont think that they got it to production etc. If they can get it to the 30 pounds they indicate, will really change the parameters of things......

    After speaking with Err on lifts etc in Whistler (as ya do) Perhaps Nicolai are concentrating on their own GBoxx 2 rather than using the Rohloff inside the GBoxx... This could have held things up...

    Also as we know, Nicolai are not a huge company, and mean that in the true sense... They are to me like the Band Radiohead, make music for themselves and fans, not what a record label tells them to, to make more sales.....

    Having an internal gearbox doesnt rate just because of no rear der etc, but so much more, the weight is low and balanced, the suspension is free to do its thing benefiting from no chain growth etc, how silent and creepy the bike is going down hill............
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
    lazy piston
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    Well, I for one would prefer they stuck with Rohloff because where I live (Russia) we have a strong distributor of Rohloff stuff, while turnaround times with Nicolai may be quite long (remember I waited for my frame for 8 months).

    My perfect internal gearbox frame would have around 110-150 mm of adjustable travel, be compatible with common rear hubs, bottom brackets and cranks (no machining the cranks please, like I saw on AMX pictures), be adjustable (angles and shock sizes), accept coil shocks, no funky chain on the left side, brake on the right side things (not to offense your TFR Whafe but I just don't feel too comfortable with such 'unique' stuff), and weigh as low as it takes to build a sub-15 kilo rig with coil shocks both front and rear.

    The AMX probably checked most of these points, but not every one of them, so I'm wondering if it's going to move in this direction or not.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    Well, I for one would prefer they stuck with Rohloff because where I live (Russia) we have a strong distributor of Rohloff stuff, while turnaround times with Nicolai may be quite long (remember I waited for my frame for 8 months).

    My perfect internal gearbox frame would have around 110-150 mm of adjustable travel, be compatible with common rear hubs, bottom brackets and cranks (no machining the cranks please, like I saw on AMX pictures), be adjustable (angles and shock sizes), accept coil shocks, no funky chain on the left side, brake on the right side things (not to offense your TFR Whafe but I just don't feel too comfortable with such 'unique' stuff), and weigh as low as it takes to build a sub-15 kilo rig with coil shocks both front and rear.

    The AMX probably checked most of these points, but not every one of them, so I'm wondering if it's going to move in this direction or not.
    None taken.... I waited 7 months, makes me feel better yours took 8 months.

    I too am unsure what direction Nicolai have or will take with the AMX.

    What I do know is am sure the cranks will be one offs for the AMX as is with my TFR. So re reading your points, I am hoping that Nicolai litened to your requests....

    Will be interesting to see how much development has been done in 12 months, I guess Interbike will tell all, or the Eurobike show. Am hoping they have not only worked on producing the ION but also worked on internal gearbox bikes................
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  29. #29
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    Whafe, we got some new info

    http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthr...=281771&page=5

    "The thread is indeed informative. I posted the URL (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=281771) already at the beginning of this thread (#1), as the primary source of information. For those guys who are not so familiar with German:
    race-only frame with a 5 year warranty (http://www.nicolai.net/download/pdf/...h-17082006.pdf),
    competitively priced to the M-Pire ST frame,
    rear wheel travel 220 mm (8.7"),
    frame weight (with shock) 5,2 kg (13.4 lbs), that is about 1 kg lighter than a competitively sized M-Pire ST,
    custom shimmed Fox DHX 5.0 shock (standard equipment) 222 mm x 70 mm (8.75" x 2.75"),
    adjustable main pivot (tension, play) with enhanced width,
    bottom-bracket shell (BSA) 83 mm
    made for 150 x 12 mm rear hubs (Maxle compatible rear dropouts)."

    Damn that is one heavy sun beatch

  30. #30
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    Hmmm...what does this adjustable main pivot mean? Anyone care to speculate

  31. #31
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    booneeee, sweet bro, dam heavy frame though, very interesting... Hard one, would not like ot give up the GBoxx, love it, its the Monty setup.....Should be some pics come out of Eurobike of this puppy, surely........
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  32. #32
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    Whafe, are you thinking of going full blown DH bike?
    That tst evo is the nuts but I bet a fair bit of money it is gonna ride a lot like the SC v-10.
    Super great for full on DH race; stix to the ground like glue and a little tough to get up in the air! But man...can you say plow thorugh sh1t with wreckless abandon!!

    Shoot me a pm some time on what you are thinkin...just for sh1ts and giigles

  33. #33
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    Whafe, more measurements:

    HA: ~65.5
    SA effective: 77??? I don't know wtf is up with my measurements here? This is most likely off by quite a bit but I am not sure why?
    SA actual: ~65. I think this is pretty close but still...?

    Take it as you will

  34. #34
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    Here is hoping that some pics come of a full built ION from EuroBike....It get sthe juices flowing anyways................Going to take some beating for me to get rid of the GBoxx!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  35. #35
    Err
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    I understand that there will be a complete ION at Interbike. Probably will be one at Eurobike as well.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    I understand that there will be a complete ION at Interbike. Probably will be one at Eurobike as well.
    Lads, found some shots on another thread. Looks dam fine fully built..............YUMMY
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  37. #37
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    MAn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That one behind the dirty one is
    HOTTTTTTTT. mmmmm hhhmmmm mmmmm

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    MAn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That one behind the dirty one is
    HOTTTTTTTT. mmmmm hhhmmmm mmmmm
    Yep it is indeed, The red goes well throughout with out looking OTT..........

    Still not much news coming out about it really, mind you, Nicolai are not known to come out guns blazing, like their style, its like they build frames for themselves, which is kinda cool........... I doubt they will ever be the size of Intense for example, and nor do they wish too either I dont think......

    If you want a frame in perfect alignment, go Nicolai.................Amongst other things..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Lads, found some shots on another thread. Looks dam fine fully built..............YUMMY
    Funny how fast pictures spread through the internet. I took those at the Nicolai open-house event last weekend.

    ION catalogue data Size "M":

    Fork Travel: 180-200mm/ 8 inch (recommended 565min - 585max)
    Wheelbase: 1150mm/ 45,3 inch
    Top Tube: 568mm/ 22,4 inch
    Seat Tube: 425mm/ 16,7 inch
    Seat angle: 73,9
    Seatpost dia: 30,0mm
    Chain stay: 428mm/ 16,9 inch
    Bottom bracket height: 25mm/ 1 inch
    Head tube lenght: 125mm/ 4,9 inch
    Head angle: 65,7
    Headtube size 1 1/8
    Rear Travel: 200 or 230 mm/ 8 or 9,5 inch

    Cheers!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Funny how fast pictures spread through the internet. I took those at the Nicolai open-house event last weekend.

    ION catalogue data Size "M":

    Fork Travel: 180-200mm/ 8 inch (recommended 565min - 585max)
    Wheelbase: 1150mm/ 45,3 inch
    Top Tube: 568mm/ 22,4 inch
    Seat Tube: 425mm/ 16,7 inch
    Seat angle: 73,9
    Seatpost dia: 30,0mm
    Chain stay: 428mm/ 16,9 inch
    Bottom bracket height: 25mm/ 1 inch
    Head tube lenght: 125mm/ 4,9 inch
    Head angle: 65,7
    Headtube size 1 1/8
    Rear Travel: 200 or 230 mm/ 8 or 9,5 inch

    Cheers!
    yep, the internet is speedy... well especially with something this handsom...

    Thanks for the figures, do you have any more info, ride thoughts etc etc...........Any info feeds the Nicolai fans HUGELY........
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Funny how fast pictures spread through the internet. I took those at the Nicolai open-house event last weekend.

    ION catalogue data Size "M":

    Fork Travel: 180-200mm/ 8 inch (recommended 565min - 585max)
    Wheelbase: 1150mm/ 45,3 inch
    Top Tube: 568mm/ 22,4 inch
    Seat Tube: 425mm/ 16,7 inch
    Seat angle: 73,9
    Seatpost dia: 30,0mm
    Chain stay: 428mm/ 16,9 inch
    Bottom bracket height: 25mm/ 1 inch
    Head tube lenght: 125mm/ 4,9 inch
    Head angle: 65,7
    Headtube size 1 1/8
    Rear Travel: 200 or 230 mm/ 8 or 9,5 inch

    Cheers!

    Wow, that geo looks really good. I love the sub-17" chainstays. The 45.3" wheelbase should keep this rig super flick-able but still very stable with the 65.7 deg HT. Should be a rocket.

  42. #42
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    No, thats all the info iīve got. Iīve to admit iīm not too much of a dh guy, so my interest for the ION at the open house wasnīt "that" big. But from what iīve read about the ION on the german nicolai support forum, you have pretty much all the details here in this thread with the 83mm bb and the 150x12mm rear thru axle etc. Weight according to the catalouge is around 5,2kg in "M".

    The 08 catalogue quotes about the ION:
    "The ION ST is the successor to the now legendary M-Pire (2004-2007 - R.I.P.). As with itīs precursor, the ION ST is one of the most race-orientated derailleur downhill frame within the Nicolai product range. The ION has got a less progressive suspension than the M-Pire so the total amount of usable rear travel is enhanced.. Due to its 4 bar design the ION is also less susceptible to drive and brake effects than the M-Pire, and lighterweight means it is obviously easier to accelerate. By using a 83mm bottom bracket width and a 150x12mm rear thru-axle this is a super stiff frame with plenty of clearence for your feet."

    Here 2 more picīs from another vistor:



    btw: The Helius FR has also been tweaked for 2008. New front triangle and seatstay gusset (in which is "Helius" milled into), new position of the top tube shock mount and a new shock lever.


    Enough news for now. I hope you guys can sleep tonight.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    No, thats all the info iīve got. Iīve to admit iīm not too much of a dh guy, so my interest for the ION at the open house wasnīt "that" big. But from what iīve read about the ION on the german nicolai support forum, you have pretty much all the details here in this thread with the 83mm bb and the 150x12mm rear thru axle etc. Weight according to the catalouge is around 5,2kg in "M".

    The 08 catalogue quotes about the ION:
    "The ION ST is the successor to the now legendary M-Pire (2004-2007 - R.I.P.). As with itīs precursor, the ION ST is one of the most race-orientated derailleur downhill frame within the Nicolai product range. The ION has got a less progressive suspension than the M-Pire so the total amount of usable rear travel is enhanced.. Due to its 4 bar design the ION is also less susceptible to drive and brake effects than the M-Pire, and lighterweight means it is obviously easier to accelerate. By using a 83mm bottom bracket width and a 150x12mm rear thru-axle this is a super stiff frame with plenty of clearence for your feet."

    Here 2 more picīs from another vistor:

    btw: The Helius FR has also been tweaked for 2008. New front triangle and seatstay gusset (in which is "Helius" milled into), new position of the top tube shock mount and a new shock lever.


    Enough news for now. I hope you guys can sleep tonight.
    No sleep now !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Cool info, thanks a bunch...I see they have changed the Nicolai stickers as well.... mmmm

    My mind is racing.............. What shall a man do, am still very in love with my Nucleon GBoxx though, but those Helius, mmmmmmmmmmmm

    Keep posting, your info rocks, dont be a stranger....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  44. #44
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    Iīve uploaded the pictures i made at nicolaiīs open house at flickr.com. They are not too many, but i thought i share them with other N-uts as well.

    The link is http://www.flickr.com/photos/user123...7601646021082/

  45. #45
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Iīve uploaded the pictures i made at nicolaiīs open house at flickr.com. They are not too many, but i thought i share them with other N-uts as well.
    mmmmmm Yummy pictures.... I love the green Helius FR, the new 08, wonder what changes have been done.........
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  46. #46
    a tight kick sound
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    looks like the front gusset is a little different and the rear stays may be a little beefier too?
    That seat though....uhhooooo that is down right terrible!

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    I qoute myself:

    "btw: The Helius FR has also been tweaked for 2008. New front triangle and seatstay gusset (in which is "Helius" milled into), new position of the top tube shock mount (more towards the seattube) and a new shock lever."

  48. #48
    a tight kick sound
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    Hahaha I didn't see that when I was typing
    Cheers!!

    Ok, what I really want to know now is...I read Ion ST..meaning super travel. When will they be coming out with a shorter travel, slightly lighter version of this frame...maybe a 6-7-7,5"
    FR version

    Jesus...whafe this is gonna be one sick DH rig man! 9" of plush, horst link travel that is less progressive....mmmmmmm....small bump eating machine!!!!

  49. #49
    lazy piston
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    Thanks for the pictures!

    As for the Helius FR, to tell the truth I seem to like the 07 better - but probably I'm a little biased

  50. #50
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    What will be the price of the frame? When will it be available?

    With a 68mm BB and 150 spacing do people foresee your heals hitting the chainstays?
    Last edited by sikocycles; 09-13-2007 at 07:48 PM.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikocycles
    What will be the price of the frame? When will it be available?

    With a 68mm BB and 150 spacing do people foresee your heals hitting the chainstays?
    I don't have a price sheet for the '08 models yet but have heard around $3,000 for the Ion. The 68mm BB spec is a typo, I believe. It's going to be an 83 mm BB. You'll note in the catalog that it says 83 mm in the German type and then 68 mm in English. And in any event, I had been told by Nicolai a while back that it would be 83 mm.

  52. #52
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    Thats for the response. It is a real nice looking frame.

  53. #53
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    Seriously nice frame. Hope they bring it out with the camo paint option.
    People wait for me on the way up. I wait for them on the way down.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    Seriously nice frame. Hope they bring it out with the camo paint option.
    Any of their frames can be painted in any of the camo patterns. You could have an aggro camo road bike if you wanted

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