South Foothills - Holy Trail Sanitation Batman- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    South Foothills - Holy Trail Sanitation Batman

    Good Afternoon Gentlemen (and Ladies),

    I had the opportunity to ride the South Foothills yesterday late morning for the first time in about 4 months. It was a great ride (first time on a new bike) with the exception of one thing...

    The amount of trail sanitation, especially in the area of the U-Mound, was very disappointing and disconcerting. Spots that previously had decent obstacles (rocks) embedded in the ground have been totally removed. In other cases there were a couple places where one big rock had spanned the entire width of the trail, and now at least half of it has been busted out.

    This isn't stuff that was easily removed by hand. It required heavy tools (pry bars and pick axes at a minimum).

    Do we know who in the world is doing this, if it is sanctioned work, and whether or not there is any stopping it before all the main foothills trails become like pavement?

    I had always thought that the North Foothills were for the XC crowd, and the South Foothills were the domain of us obstacle-seekers. Now it seems like maybe the sanitizers are taking over the whole trail system.

    Rant over.

    Thanks,

    ABQ Clyde
    2016 Ibis Mojo 3 (for the chunk)
    2017 Trek Domane (for the road)
    2017 Nimble 9 SS (for the suffering)

  2. #2
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    @amba

  3. #3
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    Update: I'm meeting Jim Sattler from the City next Friday to show him the spots I have noticed. I may not have seen them all.

    If you have a list of places where you have seen obvious sanitation and want to send them to me, I will try to find them and point those out to Jim as well.

    (Only serious replies please...no wild goose chases.)

    Thanks!
    2016 Ibis Mojo 3 (for the chunk)
    2017 Trek Domane (for the road)
    2017 Nimble 9 SS (for the suffering)

  4. #4
    JXG
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    Considering that last summer AOS destroyed the only technical obstacle in the NFH that provided a "Quality Recreational Experience" (QRE) for the slightly advanced rider... your walk and talk should be interesting.

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    I met with Jim last year to discuss the spot referenced by JXG. We had a good discussion and walked the area. He seemed open minded to my input, and said he'd invite me to trail-planning meetings. I haven't heard a word from him. I sent him a couple followup emails, let him know what my schedule was like, and he just told me he was really busy.

    I was doing some volunteer trail work in that same area a few weeks ago, and a gentleman informed me that Jim had been replaced by someone else.

    I've given up on getting anything built by our land managers. I gave working with them an honest effort for a couple years, and nothing ever came of it. If we want interesting trails, we have to build them ourselves, and be covert about it.

  6. #6
    JXG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skelldify View Post
    I met with Jim last year to discuss the spot referenced by JXG.
    I remember your post and wondered what happened. Thanks for the update.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXG View Post
    I remember your post and wondered what happened. Thanks for the update.
    Ditto. I'll bear this in mind when meeting with Jim. Hopefully it won't be a waste of time.

    Thanks!
    2016 Ibis Mojo 3 (for the chunk)
    2017 Trek Domane (for the road)
    2017 Nimble 9 SS (for the suffering)

  8. #8
    JXG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABQ Clydesdale View Post
    Ditto. I'll bear this in mind when meeting with Jim.
    You might note that not all trail users have the same recreational needs and that alternate routes are current best practices rather than grinding everything down to uniform pavement.

    Examples of "progressive" trails of this type include Snake Dancer in Durango and Three Bottles locally.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXG View Post
    Considering that last summer AOS destroyed the only technical obstacle in the NFH that provided a "Quality Recreational Experience" (QRE) for the slightly advanced rider... your walk and talk should be interesting.
    I was all about the ravine, but it was a detriment to the trail. Its hard for me to admit it, but I understand why that went away. My names owl..
    I dont understand the sanitizing in the sfh, but I assume its the same bunch that pulls out the helper rocks on all the good rollers.

  10. #10
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    It was sanctioned. I reported this a year ago when it started happening. It was followed by some unsanctioned remodeling where someone just started putting large rocks in the center of the trail at various points. It has been a terrible year.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  11. #11
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    Just in case anyone was wondering, the meeting was rescheduled to next Friday because of the cold temps and unknown trail conditions.
    2016 Ibis Mojo 3 (for the chunk)
    2017 Trek Domane (for the road)
    2017 Nimble 9 SS (for the suffering)

  12. #12
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    The South Foothills contain a fine complex of trails for winter fitness training. That's about the only nice thing I can say about them. I ride there maybe three times a week because they are close. There is plenty of technical opportunity, but not on the numbered/legal trails. Even Hilldale is getting worn down to the point it's only mildly amusing. Can't help but wonder if our expectations are unrealistic. This morning, bikes were outnumbered 10-to-1 by pedestrians. I don't hear dog-walkers clamoring for more technical features. Might we have a better shot at formalizing some of the interesting bits rather than trying to convince AOS that our opinion on the heavily traveled trails matters? Lots of fun stuff dropping off 365 toward Lomas and all that mayhem under the power lines, plus endless bloodletting opportunity in Fooville. Map it out, make some conceptual drawings, break it up into phases, put it in a proper proposal and have AMBA, AOS and USDA at the table.

  13. #13
    JXG
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Can't help but wonder if our expectations are unrealistic. This morning, bikes were outnumbered 10-to-1 by pedestrians.
    Yes, given the urban setting maybe the best option is separate routes off the main trails. Key question is how the land managers would regard this concept.

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    It's all in how you sell it.

  15. #15
    but i want to ride now
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    I agree 100% on this. I've constantly wondered why no one has pushed the area by the "nuke cactus" as a location to build more purposefully technical trails in SFH. There is a decent amount of room there and certainly no shortage of terrain, all located in ABQ Open Space. Also, seemingly few hikers venture out this far, likely due to the steepness of the terrain. South Foothills - Holy Trail Sanitation Batman-screen-shot-2017-01-29-3.08.48-pm.jpg
    sweet sweet trails

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldousfilcher View Post
    I agree 100% on this. I've constantly wondered why no one has pushed the area by the "nuke cactus" as a location to build more purposefully technical trails in SFH.
    You guys are funny.... Foo has plans on the books with Jim to go through "The Wall" into Echo Basin... "rock rollers" and everything. Jim agreed three years ago to allow us to do some interesting things with it! I think he was sick of seeing all the bootleg crap out there!

    There is even a planned trail over the ridge dropping into Echo Basin from up at what I call "Recovery Ridge" mid-way up the Foo-Climb. We talked about a more technical drop down (of course A-B lines) then even the Foo-climb!

    But yanno... if people just want to sit on this board and rant about how nothing ever gets built "for them".... then nothing ever will!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    You guys are funny.... Foo has plans on the books with Jim to go through "The Wall" into Echo Basin... "rock rollers" and everything. Jim agreed three years ago to allow us to do some "interesting things" there! I think he was sick of seeing all the bootleg crap out there!

    There is even a planned trail over the ridge dropping into Echo Basin from up at what I call "Recovery Ridge" mid-way up the Foo-Climb.

    But yanno... if people just want to sit on this board and rant about how nothing ever gets built "for them".... then nothing ever will!
    Funny, he never once mentioned any of that to me when I was telling him we needed more technical trails... Who is Foo anyway? I thought they didn't exist anymore.

    ABQClyde, how did your meeting go?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skelldify View Post
    Funny, he never once mentioned any of that to me when I was telling him we needed more technical trails... Who is Foo anyway? I thought they didn't exist anymore.

    ABQClyde, how did your meeting go?
    Even funnier... we drink a lot more beer together and discuss plans then you'll ever develop with a once in a lifetime meeting! Jim is one of these guys that if you don't work with him regularly actually "building trails"... he'll just give you lip service.
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

    Building your trails at FooMTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Even funnier... we drink a lot more beer together and discuss plans then you'll ever develop with a once in a lifetime meeting! Jim is one of these guys that if you don't work with him regularly actually "building trails"... he'll just give you lip service.
    ...the reason no one wants to work with our land managers.

  20. #20
    JXG
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    You guys are funny.... Foo has plans on the books with Jim
    So ever since I joined this forum these Goat proclamations have impressed me with their condescension and unwelcoming tone. Clearly you have a lot of history and a lot of frustration.

    That said, and with all due respect to a senior member of the community, I have to ask... is it possible that you and your exclusive beer-drinking connection with the land manager have... paradoxically... become the greatest impediment to achieving "your" vision?

    Given what energized people have accomplished in Gallup and elsewhere, it makes one appreciate how much can turn -- or not -- on a single personality. Food for thought.

  21. #21
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    I took what appeared to be the consensus in this thread and shared it with Jim via email, including the specific locations of the sanitation I saw. He expressed his appreciation. We did not meet in person.
    2016 Ibis Mojo 3 (for the chunk)
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    2017 Nimble 9 SS (for the suffering)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Even funnier... we drink a lot more beer together and discuss plans then you'll ever develop with a once in a lifetime meeting! Jim is one of these guys that if you don't work with him regularly actually "building trails"... he'll just give you lip service.
    Funny, I've never actually seen you on a trail work day, but I have seen most of the respondents to this thread. Must be chance. Anyway, thanks as always for your insightful, helpful comments that are not at all arrogant or self-inflated.

  23. #23
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    The fella driving the trail building and "beer drinking" with Jim is the same guy who proclaimed 3 Bottles needs to go away because its un-rideable.
    So there ya go. Expect anything new built up there to have the same flavor as the rest of sanctioned trails up there. Its only going in if EVERYONE can ride it

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    You guys are funny.... Foo has plans on the books with Jim to go through "The Wall" into Echo Basin... "rock rollers" and everything. Jim agreed three years ago to allow us to do some interesting things with it! I think he was sick of seeing all the bootleg crap out there!

    There is even a planned trail over the ridge dropping into Echo Basin from up at what I call "Recovery Ridge" mid-way up the Foo-Climb. We talked about a more technical drop down (of course A-B lines) then even the Foo-climb!

    But yanno... if people just want to sit on this board and rant about how nothing ever gets built "for them".... then nothing ever will!
    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Even funnier... we drink a lot more beer together and discuss plans then you'll ever develop with a once in a lifetime meeting! Jim is one of these guys that if you don't work with him regularly actually "building trails"... he'll just give you lip service.
    Three years of blowing each other and all you could get done was a re-route on the Nuke Yucca?

    How many licks does it take to get more than just "lip-service" from Jimbo?
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    You guys are funny.... Foo has plans on the books with Jim to go through "The Wall" into Echo Basin... "rock rollers" and everything. Jim agreed three years ago to allow us to do some interesting things with it! I think he was sick of seeing all the bootleg crap out there!

    There is even a planned trail over the ridge dropping into Echo Basin from up at what I call "Recovery Ridge" mid-way up the Foo-Climb. We talked about a more technical drop down (of course A-B lines) then even the Foo-climb!

    But yanno... if people just want to sit on this board and rant about how nothing ever gets built "for them".... then nothing ever will!
    Yeah, well, since I'm not, and apparently no one else is, a part of your special masonic guild no one else is aware of this supposed agreement for trails in that area of the SFH. It is basically vapor. Trails are only going to get built if people are aware of the goings on as far as Land Manager blessings are concerned.

    As far as I can tell you gleefully condescend to everyone on this forum, so its unlikely you're going to get many takers to work with you. Your strategy (such as it is) is pretty obviously self-defeating.

    Please be helpful, for the love of Christ.

    Anyway, if trails are going to get built in this neck of the SFH its likely to occur beyond the realm of the "sanctioned", in no small part to characters such as yourself.
    sweet sweet trails

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    Excuse: a pretext or subterfuge

    Junky: a person with an insatiable craving for something

    A wise man once said that the road to recovery begins with the admission that there is actually a problem.

    Excuses are like snowflakes, bros. Each is quite unique.

    Happy Valentines Day!!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by XQsJNkY View Post
    Excuse: a pretext or subterfuge

    Junky: a person with an insatiable craving for something

    A wise man once said that the road to recovery begins with the admission that there is actually a problem.

    Excuses are like snowflakes, bros. Each is quite unique.

    Happy Valentines Day!!
    That guy ain't you
    And so the fella who drug pallets up into the sfh shows up to defend Doug from these evil Internet do-badders. Aren't you a little old to be a precious snowflake Bryan?

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    Well done Doug. This descended into infighting faster than you could stroke Jim behind the ear. Now where did I leave those pallets...

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    Who's defending who, who-who?

    Some folks don't need defending.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Well done Doug. This descended into infighting faster than you could stroke Jim behind the ear. Now where did I leave those pallets...
    I will have you know that pallets are a perfectly acceptable building material.

    Thank you.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by XQsJNkY View Post
    I will have you know that pallets are a perfectly acceptable building material.

    Thank you.
    Case in point: Wooden bridge on 365a. Sanctioned, numbered.

  32. #32
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    Lol @ how wacky the NM forum threads get sometimes.

    I don't make eye contact with anyone when im out riding in the foothills because I'm afraid it could be one of you guys. 😀

  33. #33
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    Baby. We're only angry on the forum. Happiest when riding.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by XQsJNkY View Post
    I will have you know that pallets are a perfectly acceptable building material.

    Thank you.
    Funny sh!t right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humpy View Post
    Lol @ how wacky the NM forum threads get sometimes.

    I don't make eye contact with anyone when im out riding in the foothills because I'm afraid it could be one of you guys. 😀
    umm, yeah.

    There is probably a thread addressing your poor people skills.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by XQsJNkY View Post
    umm, yeah.

    There is probably a thread addressing your poor people skills.
    It'd be nice if sketchy people could be removed from trails as easily as they are from forums.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by XQsJNkY View Post
    umm, yeah.

    There is probably a thread addressing your poor people skills.
    said the pot to the kettle

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Case in point: Wooden bridge on 365a. Sanctioned, numbered.
    ...Should be a jump/kicker
    Cool BandolArrow

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Three years of blowing each other and all you could get done was a re-route on the Nuke Yucca?

    How many licks does it take to get more than just "lip-service" from Jimbo?
    Amen to that!!
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red or Green? View Post
    What have you and Rosy accomplished?

    I know Rosy really gets a "kick" out of removing booters in Otero.
    who doesnt?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red or Green? View Post
    What have you and Rosy accomplished?
    What do you care??
    RCC
    I heard the mission bell
    And i was thinking to my self
    This could be heaven or this could be hell...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red or Green? View Post


    ...
    LoL

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