Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals

    There's a big difference between building a feature I don't have to ride and demolishing one I might have ridden. The Tour d'France road gap might have been excessive, but in general, I'm with Voldemort on this one.
    If I was the self-ritchous, cowardly Nazi jackass type like White Dodge guy and I read all the vitriol in these forums directed at me, I'd probably arm myself. Something to consider before you confront this douche.
    Once again, trying to save the Otero Conditions thread from fatal scope creep.

  2. #2
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    I was looking forward to the "TDF gap" (At least a rider would have to have gone out of their way to hit it).

    As cool as 3B's is, it likely won't have features like that, even though there are plenty of riders that would HTS. For those riders, there is no local, legal opportunities.

    Agree, ripping out "optional" opportunities is a little on the nazi side...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    There's a big difference between building a feature I don't have to ride and demolishing one I might have ridden. The Tour d'France road gap might have been excessive, but in general, I'm with Voldemort on this one.
    If I was the self-ritchous, cowardly Nazi jackass type like White Dodge guy and I read all the vitriol in these forums directed at me, I'd probably arm myself. Something to consider before you confront this douche.
    Once again, trying to save the Otero Conditions thread from fatal scope creep.
    I could not agree more. Regardless what grudge you hold you have to be pissed at what these two guy did to the trail. There is no excuse for what the guy in the dodge truck and his friend did to Otero. NONE! I've seen plenty of things I don't care fore on the trail. And expressed those feelings to whoever. But never have I felt it was my place to tear anything out, or wipe out all the features in a trail. Some new but most had been there for years and enjoyed by hundreds of riders. These guys are the lowest of the low. Trail scum that think they know best for everyone.
    Last edited by rockcrusher; 08-04-2015 at 09:23 AM.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  4. #4
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    looks like the censor trolls are scrubbing the forums too.

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    OK, I missed something. What got scrubbed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    looks like the censor trolls are scrubbing the forums too.
    Now you see him, Now you don't.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  7. #7
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    Every jump, kicker, etc.On lower Otero is gone. Some 'b'lines are blocked as well.
    It's just a flesh wound!

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    I saw that today. I was wondering what got scrubbed from the forum.

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    I did notice that the cheater rocks were still in place at the first rock wall, so apparently the anointed one who shall be known as White Dodge guy deemed it worthy. Oh we are blessed by his wisdom, are we not?

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    Has there been any trends established of when people see this POS at the trailhead(s)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lmnq123 View Post
    Just so everyone knows, I am likely the reason that this fella decided to go all willy-nilly on the off trail features in Otero. There was an exchange about a week and a half ago, and long story short he did it to prove a point. After a very long discussion yesterday, I felt his point was well taken. The stuff that has been popping up on upper Otero seems to be a little too much, in too short of a time. People don't like radical change, I guess. It makes them uncomfortable. I think we can all relate. With regard to the lower stuff, at least one of them was starting to throw the gravity minded directly into the path of on-comers (he was not the first person that I heard mention that) I, myself, had never encountered that since I don't really "launch" the smaller features, and I've never felt endangered by those who are descending. I tend to try to give ROW, in any case. I'm in no hurry. His beef is that these features seem to be encouraging speed, and I sort of disagree in that I tend to only devote enough speed to clearing the obstacle, and these features have "developed" such that I am generally "safe" in that regard. What he would like to see is more features that encourage skill, rather than speed: Meaning, I guess, that the features (on lower Otero at least) remain in a "primitive" state. I'm not sure how to accomplish this, but maybe with some input we can satisfy everyone?

    In short, this guy had quite a few beefs. One with the recent surge of full on geared up DH kids, and second, the features that encourage them. I agree, that if we can keep the lower sections in a more primitive state, it would not be as inviting to these speed demons.

    I think we all can agree that upper Otero, while still technically prohibited to travel, is more of a blank canvas for this sort of thing.

    Otero will continue to evolve, as will our interactions with each other and other users. There is always a compromise to be had. With more users, rather than getting ourselves wound up about some little features/jumps, I think it would be more beneficial to "build" relationships and trails. <plug> the next 3b's trail extension workday is August 15 - flyers and details are at every trail head kiosk</plug>

    That said, I'm pretty sure the Prince of Trails got the picture, but his voice counts too! So, if you see him, ignore him if you choose, but I would ask that you also consider his intentions.

    Thanks,

    BA
    ...before this disappears too...

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    Even if he had the best of intentions (which I am in no way convinced of), they don't justify his actions. His beef may have been with you, but he brought the fight to the entire community. It sounds like now he wants to backpedal because he realized that he has angered a lot of people, and he (or at least his vehicle) can be very easily identified. It seems to me that in his crusade to "fix" Otero, he has made it an even more difficult place for him to ride.
    "You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning." ShakyPuddin

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    Steve I was referring to your post getting edited and Sappies License plate getting removed.
    Last edited by rockcrusher; 1 Day Ago at 10:23 AM.

    Bryan getting banned and deleted is an everyday thing.
    Just so were clear, he tore that shit up in Otero because of what Bryan has been building at the top. At Least this is according to Bryan

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Just so were clear, he tore that shit up in Otero because of what Bryan has been building at the top. At Least this is according to Bryan
    Glad I didn't have anything to do with it!
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    Just so were clear, he tore that shit up in Otero because of what Bryan has been building at the top. At Least this is according to Bryan[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes when I write, meanings get distorted, and so maybe I'm misunderstanding yours. Are you defending the destruction of the features? Sounds a bit like, "I didn't like what they were teaching so I burned down the church".

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Just so were clear, he tore that shit up in Otero because of what Bryan has been building at the top. At Least this is according to Bryan
    Let me make sure I am clear on the logic here.

    "Sappie" destroyed a bunch of things, with no authorization from the land manager, that we all use, but he is not responsible for it.
    Someone else is responsible for "Sappie's" actions, because he was building something "Sappie" didn't like. We all know what these things are, and where they are, including "Sappie", even though none of us have authorization to be where they are.
    Did I get that right?

    It seems to me we are all doing things we are not supposed to do, but one of us (Sappy) [email protected]#ed things up for everybody else.

    And its all Bryan's fault. That's the key to all logic in the NM forum.
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    Yeah, but some things are gray-er than others...
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  18. #18
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    yea pretty much all of that logic up there.

    Do as I say, not as I do? fix a wrong with another wrong?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by swildnm View Post
    And its all Bryan's fault. That's the key to all logic in the NM forum.
    You guys are hilarious! So who's gonna be the first to start a rumble with Sappy and can we watch? Tickets?

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    I'm sorry none of these little features made the trail faster and encouraged speed. He actually made the trails look worse then before. How about instead of destroying things how about you help fix those little things that you have a problem with. No one owns the trails we need to work together. Just because he's old and not skilled enough to use them doesn't mean there bad for everyone or causing harm to those climbing on the uphill.

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    Hey, easy on the old and unskilled. I resemble that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Hey, easy on the old and unskilled. I resemble that.
    Ha ha, rest easy old timer! I get shown up all the time by older dudes ha ha.


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    I saw the little speed humps sappie installed on one of the lower otero lines that cut the arroyo. must have taken himn a good half hour to chop little tiny lines in there with the hopes that he will slow down or prevent people from taking that line. But like the rest of the shit you did up there, it wont matter. That one in particular made me laugh as I went over it on a 6" bike.

    We'll fix your vandalism. Best stick to riding somewheres else for a while.

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    Just for clarification, nobody has the okay to modify, build/construct anything without approval (like anyone listens anyway). I told BA he could "fix" a few features on "lower Otero" that were removed that had been there for a long time. Either way, please be civil and respectful to each other.

    Hell, come volunteer if you wanna dig. I'd be really nice to finish Three Bottles flow trail this season. Bryan's been there every day, how 'bout you?

  25. #25
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    Ive only made one day. this year.
    EDIT: And bryan wasnt there that day.

    Or anytime last year I was there.
    But I do remember seeing you on my tax dollar cleaning up rogue trail work this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Just for clarification, nobody has the okay to modify, build/construct anything without approval (like anyone listens anyway). I told BA he could "fix" a few features on "lower Otero" that were removed that had been there for a long time. Either way, please be civil and respectful to each other.

    Hell, come volunteer if you wanna dig. I'd be really nice to finish Three Bottles flow trail this season. Bryan's been there every day, how 'bout you?
    There were some of those things in lower Otero that were fixed back like they were before, on Sunday. Today went I went for a ride they were all torn out AGAIN and then some. This guy in the white Dodge has gone off the deep end. One Pathetic SOB.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    I saw the little speed humps sappie installed on one of the lower otero lines that cut the arroyo. must have taken himn a good half hour to chop little tiny lines in there with the hopes that he will slow down or prevent people from taking that line. But like the rest of the shit you did up there, it wont matter. That one in particular made me laugh as I went over it on a 6" bike.

    We'll fix your vandalism. Best stick to riding somewheres else for a while.
    Indeed.

    You will be happy that Steve and I left them there, just for you and your 6" rig, bro.

    Who is this we stuff, anyway?

    Save the Trolls!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Just for clarification, nobody has the okay to modify, build/construct anything without approval (like anyone listens anyway). I told BA he could "fix" a few features on "lower Otero" that were removed that had been there for a long time. Either way, please be civil and respectful to each other.

    Hell, come volunteer if you wanna dig. I'd be really nice to finish Three Bottles flow trail this season. Bryan's been there every day, how 'bout you?
    Agree.

    3b's trail is where we should be focusing this energy.

    I feel Steve's pain. It's disappointing to have to deal with this kind of thing...building, tearing down, and rebuilding. It seems to be catchy, maybe even some weird virus. Hopefully, the EPA will approve some cure. As an alternative, it's sometimes better to have a man to man about it. I don't think we will be seeing much of him, or any further incidents on lower Otero, for a little while at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Ive only made one day. this year.
    EDIT: And bryan wasnt there that day.

    Or anytime last year I was there.
    But I do remember seeing you on my tax dollar cleaning up rogue trail work this year.
    No, I was not there originally when you flagged the trail for the first time. But, I followed up with it and made a few suggestions later.

    I saw Kerry that day. He was pissed! I thought he was going to hit me over the head with his shovel and bury me under a big pile of rocks. I'm sure he thought about it, and decided that people might think he was a hypocrite. lol

  30. #30
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    So lets keep the focus on the A$$ W!pe that keeps tearing out the trail. Sandy or what ever the hell his name is with White Dodge Truck. Plate #948RZN NM. Not satisfied with tearing out one time. Did it again after some of the things were repaired on lower Otero. This is the issue.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    So lets keep the focus on the A$$ W!pe that keeps tearing out the trail. Sandy or what ever the hell his name is with White Dodge Truck. Plate #948RZN NM. Not satisfied with tearing out one time. Did it again after some of the things were repaired on lower Otero. This is the issue.
    Those things are back now thanks to you, me, Christian, and Kevin. I don't think they are going anywhere. I have his contact info.. So not only do I know what he (and his truck) look like - which seems to be lost on many - I know where he lives!

    You know, I had a friend of mine call me a few days ago and ask why people were mad at him. He drives a white dodge, too.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by swildnm View Post
    Let me make sure I am clear on the logic here.
    <snip>

    And its all Bryan's fault. That's the key to all logic in the NM forum.
    When in doubt, Blame MTB-123. That's what I do.

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  33. #33
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    Does anybody want my license plate number? If these stupid shortcuts keep popping up who knows what I'll rip out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmtim View Post
    Does anybody want my license plate number? If these stupid shortcuts keep popping up who knows what I'll rip out.
    The Bosque does not have any shortcuts. It's twisty. Could use some berms.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    The Bosque does not have any shortcuts. It's twisty. Could use some berms.
    Don't go f*&kin' with my trails Bro!!!
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  36. #36
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    There's vandalism in the foothills too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    There's vandalism in the foothills too?
    Yet another reason that it's not fit for Wilderness.

    God save the Vandals!

  38. #38
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    Well, there goes the neighborhood.
    Back to pinkbike...

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    In other news, please be advised that there is a unicycle contingent who are apparently trying to go through proper channels to "clean" up Tunnel. They are pretty easy to spot because their bikes are missing a wheel. If you happen to see these clowns removing rocks, make sure to phone the proper authorities. DO NOT try to take things into your own hands, as they have been known to have fiery tempers, most likely due to their inability to locate a front wheel.

    My source prefers to remain anonymous. All I can tell you is he drives a white Dodge pickup.

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    Hell, come volunteer if you wanna dig. I'd be really nice to finish Three Bottles flow trail this season. Bryan's been there every day, how 'bout you?[/QUOTE]

    Not sure how often Bryan has been out there since I've missed a few sessions. Gotta say though, IMHO, Bryan has the best "eye" for trail flow and features of all the "experts".
    But come on out and work with USFS to build and maintain your trails. And if anything doesn't seem right, blame it on Crapstick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bg2lk15 View Post
    Gotta say though, IMHO, Bryan has the best "eye" for trail flow and features of all the "experts".
    But come on out and work with USFS to build and maintain your trails. And if anything doesn't seem right, blame it on Crapstick.


    Thanks, Bob.

    I'm just a vehicle, though. If you want to blame someone, like everyone else you're gonna have to take it up with the fella who is actually steering the wheel.

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    Cool-blue Rhythm Dissambler is nice guy

    I don't know what the concern about this is. This is just another guy who's looking out for our best interests! I ran into him yesterday when he was fixing the trail and he seemed really nice. He did threaten to kick my ass and break my phone because I was filming him, but he seemed really concerned about the trails and the people there. The only time I was worried was when he came at me with a rock

    I thought I'd post some video and pictures of him here so that if you see him, you can thank him personally for all the work he's done. The first one's a combo of all three videos. The second and third ones are so you can see the un-edited video. Such a nice guy, unlike those nasty Bandroneros out there always having fun, drinking beer, building trails and disturbing the wildlife.

    I like how in the second video he says he's not the only one. I agree! I'm sure there's a lot of people just like him out there making the trails safe for us! Thank you all! I'm sure each of us would like to thank you personally so please let us know who you are!

    Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155520.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155540.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155616.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155526.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155703.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155649.jpgOtero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-20150808_155657.jpg




    https://youtu.be/lVxL82knlyY

    https://youtu.be/mXSqt-9-yJM

    https://youtu.be/PhMyf3JBTgM
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by major.sarcasm View Post
    I don't know what the concern about this is. This is just another guy who's looking out for our best interests! I ran into him yesterday when he was fixing the trail and he seemed really nice. He did threaten to kick my ass and break my phone because I was filming him, but he seemed really concerned about the trails and the people there. The only time I was worried was when he came at me with a rock

    I thought I'd post some video and pictures of him here so that if you see him, you can thank him personally for all the work he's done. The first one's a combo of all three videos. The second and third ones are so you can see the un-edited video. Such a nice guy, unlike those nasty Bandroneros out there always having fun, drinking beer, building trails and disturbing the wildlife.

    I like how in the second video he says he's not the only one. I agree! I'm sure there's a lot of people just like him out there making the trails safe for us! Thank you all! I'm sure each of us would like to thank you personally so please let us know who you are!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://youtu.be/lVxL82knlyY

    https://youtu.be/mXSqt-9-yJM

    https://youtu.be/PhMyf3JBTgM
    Dang...

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    Quote Originally Posted by major.sarcasm View Post
    I don't know what the concern about this is. This is just another guy who's looking out for our best interests! I ran into him yesterday when he was fixing the trail and he seemed really nice. He did threaten to kick my ass and break my phone because I was filming him, but he seemed really concerned about the trails and the people there. The only time I was worried was when he came at me with a rock

    I thought I'd post some video and pictures of him here so that if you see him, you can thank him personally for all the work he's done. The first one's a combo of all three videos. The second and third ones are so you can see the un-edited video. Such a nice guy, unlike those nasty Bandroneros out there always having fun, drinking beer, building trails and disturbing the wildlife.

    I like how in the second video he says he's not the only one. I agree! I'm sure there's a lot of people just like him out there making the trails safe for us! Thank you all! I'm sure each of us would like to thank you personally so please let us know who you are!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://youtu.be/lVxL82knlyY

    https://youtu.be/mXSqt-9-yJM

    https://youtu.be/PhMyf3JBTgM
    Apparently he's very proud of his stawardship.


    I told him he might want to invest in a rigid 26'er, or go play in the Bosque. That trail is actually quite technical at speeds above 5mph.

    Basically, all of his efforts yesterday were the result of the lower rock drop/step down inviting too much speed. He had asked me to make it more technical, but Stevie was already wrapping it up by the time I got there on Thursday. He must have been fuming all the way up, at that point. Lot's of work went into building those features back up. They were even better than before!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Apparently he's very proud of his stawardship.


    I told him he might want to invest in a rigid 26'er, or go play in the Bosque. That trail is actually quite technical at speeds above 5mph.

    Basically, all of his efforts yesterday were the result of the lower rock drop/step down inviting too much speed. He had asked me to make it more technical, but Stevie was already wrapping it up by the time I got there on Thursday. He must have been fuming all the way up, at that point. Lot's of work went into building those features back up. They were even better than before!
    So all repairs have to be approved by this a$$w!pe. I don't think so! Something needs to be done about this guy.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    So all repairs have to be approved by this a$$w!pe. I don't think so! Something needs to be done about this guy.
    Well, someone has to approve them. At least it's not the policing we have have to concern ourselves with, in this particular case. We pay good money for that...roughly 33% according to my last quarterly.

    At any rate. This has gotten way too complicated. I'm gonna let you boys hash this one out. Divide and conquer! That's my strategy.

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    lol, ^ that picture reminds me of an angry old goat.

    I'm surprised no one has wondered who our anonymous poster is. hmmmmm.....

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    What. a. douche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kittles View Post
    What. a. douche.
    Is that pronounced 'kit-less'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by major.sarcasm View Post

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    You'd be angry too if you tried doing moves like that in your "these fit fine 20 yrs ago" spandex undies...

    Cool enduro lid tho.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    lol, ^ that picture reminds me of an angry old goat.
    Hey watch it, I have NOTHING to do with this, not that he might have a point to make!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Hey watch it, I have NOTHING to do with this, not that he might have a point to make!
    Agree. He made a logical point. Outside of the one feature that supposedly caused a few close calls, and the boneheads that were taking said feature to the extreme, the original path was not compromised.

    It's evolution, doogooder. Our equipment is just so darn capable, yet the ability to use it still boils down to good old fashioned American Muscle.

    Otero has become quite a popular destination. It is central to the entire network. On my way to the meeting on Wed., I got stuck on Montano bridge. It took about 20 mins to get from one end to the other. I thought surely there must be an accident, come to find out it was just rush hour. Seems our infrastructure is not keeping up with the demand?

    Maybe we need more trails like it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Is that pronounced 'kit-less'?
    No, it's just kittles, kinda like skittles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Agree. He made a logical point. Outside of the one feature that supposedly caused a few close calls, and the boneheads that were taking said feature to the extreme, the original path was not compromised.

    It's evolution, doogooder. Our equipment is just so darn capable, yet the ability to use it still boils down to good old fashioned American Muscle.

    Otero has become quite a popular destination. It is central to the entire network. On my way to the meeting on Wed., I got stuck on Montano bridge. It took about 20 mins to get from one end to the other. I thought surely there must be an accident, come to find out it was just rush hour. Seems our infrastructure is not keeping up with the demand?

    Maybe we need more trails like it?
    If he has an issue with some boneheads that about hit him, he needs to take it up with them. Not screw everyone else on the trail. Talk about selfish. The only thing that needs to be done is get this VANDAL off the trail. How many times has he vandalized the Forest Service area of Otero now. I lost count. Time to take matters into our own hands I think.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Hey watch it, I have NOTHING to do with this, not that he might have a point to make!
    One of those pictures shows him approaching the camera person with a rock in his right hand. Is that the point that he was trying to make? Is that a point that you would make?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    Time to take matters into our own hands I think.
    I wanna see this go down!
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-gnome View Post
    One of those pictures shows him approaching the camera person with a rock in his right hand. Is that the point that he was trying to make? Is that a point that you would make?
    Obviously someone has pissed him off to this point, not sure who or why, but he's obviously trying to make a point! Now awhat that point is becomes pure speculation!
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    I haven't been on the forum in ages - but this new trail work inspired me to check out what the heck was going on. Glad it's still Bryan's fault like its always been. Wish they could have fixed some of the upper drainage issues rather than just tearing stuff up. Not that I was riding past the boundary...

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    Fighting on the trail would be stupid. But if this guy were to head toward me with a rock in his hand he might just learn what bear spray is all about. There are lots of ways to make this ass know he's unwelcome out there.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  59. #59
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    When I think of what I might say if I see this tool, this is at the top of the list:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7zfnbdyAW8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    When I think of what I might say if I see this tool, this is at the top of the list:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7zfnbdyAW8
    I saw you on Thursday. You didn't say thank you.

  61. #61
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    Where?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    Where?
    If I told you, we'd both be in trouble. Were you, or were you not, riding Otero on Thursday? I saw a yeller SCTB coming down the trail.

  63. #63
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    Apparently I am not who you think I am.

    My LTc is currently blue, and I'm way faster than that guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    Apparently I am not who you think I am.

    My LTc is currently blue, and I'm way faster than that guy.
    Well, he looked pretty fast.

  65. #65
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    wow, just wow.

    There is a nice cheater line around that rock feature. No one is forcing him to hit the feature. What a complete jerk. Time to get the Authorities involved, get his butt arrested.
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    And tell them that he is trespassing in a way that makes all the rest of the trespassers sad?
    We all know that even the features within FS last are still iffy even though Kerry said some of them could be re-built.

    Just going to have to figure out a way to make this guys time out there so un-enjoyable it's not worth it for him to show his face. Not sure how to do that and not bring attention from the base or other prying eyes.
    Hopefully if enough people see him on the trail and communicate that he is not welcome he will get the picture.

  67. #67
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    Was out there this morning and witnessed that what had been replaced on Sunday morning was no longer there two days later - made me sad. I was hoping the whole way down Otero that he will crash, break a femur, and decide that he'd rather play Backgammon instead.

    Also, the dirt out there will be primo this evening (provided it doesn't rain first)
    sweet sweet trails

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    Quote Originally Posted by aldousfilcher View Post
    ...made me sad. I was hoping the whole way down Otero that he will crash, break a femur...
    Maybe when you guys rumble with him you can give him a "knee stomp"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    wow, just wow.

    There is a nice cheater line around that rock feature. No one is forcing him to hit the feature. What a complete jerk. Time to get the Authorities involved, get his butt arrested.
    It's not even a "cheater line." Nothing on the way down Otero is even in the main trail tread. They are all off to the side and entirely optional. Nothing to sneak up on Joe Average riding down the main path.

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    Well, he didn't tear out Pikit. Normally, I look forward to all the little booters, and rarely turn my eye towards that feature. I was feeling it today, though. So smoove....

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    I might be able to head up there tomorrow after work. 530 ish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    I might be able to head up there tomorrow after work. 530 ish.
    You should check out the meeting, if you haven't already attended one.

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    Who what where when?

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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    Who what where when?
    Everything you want to know is in here, and maybe even some things you didn't.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/new-mexico/us...ns-982759.html

    Otero is not destroyed. It's just as fun as it ever was. Initially this was just two people who butted heads, and both of them walked away with a headache. Yes, other people suffered, while still others (believe it or not) barely noticed a thing. The people who suffered, by and large, had very little to do with "process." Time to let it go, for me at least. In the end, a great majority came together and expressed their interests, and I might add made a damn good case. A greater experience awaits all of us if we come together as a group, and make change where it really counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    wow, just wow.

    There is a nice cheater line around that rock feature. No one is forcing him to hit the feature. What a complete jerk. Time to get the Authorities involved, get his butt arrested.

    Pax makes a good point. As far as the "authorities" are concerned, everyone is "suspect." That's actually part of their job is to remain neutral until such time that people are in danger of hurting themselves, or each other, and/or either party is flagrantly breaking the law. Unfortunately, the feature in these pix is not currently one that they recognize, so by default everyone is suspect. If not the latter, and people simply can't get along, then again it often boils down to vague definitions of a particular law as to who is right or wrong and fit for punishment, for which the righteous would then assume the power of a law (rather than simply dealing with it constructively) that may even have implications for him or her in the long run. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

  76. #76
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    What's next... this guy?

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    Reminds me of a time when I borrowed a friends mountain bike (it was state of the art at the time...the first open bath RS Judy, IIRC) to ride to an outdoor festival in a popular city park. FWIW, the city had been pushing to ban bikes in this particular park for some time, but had only gotten as far as banning them in certain areas. When I got there, the "authorities" had closed the park to bikes, and charged a fee to store them. I hadn't anticipated any of that, so I did not bring a lock with me. I only brought enough dough to get in the festival and besides that I had ridden from Stockton to Lodi just to be there and it wasn't even my bike. It is a HUGE park, mind you. I pleaded with the guy to let me in, and promised that I would walk my bike. He agreed, but I guess he really wasn't the "authority." Long story short, these two cops approached me almost immediately and told me that the bike needed to go into the bike area, or I would have to leave. I informed him that the guy who gave me my ticket said it was OK as long as I walked it. I'm pretty sure he figured that I was lying and had snuck in, but I continued to plead my case. Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly when I got a little mouthy about how stoopid it was to ban bikes and charge a fee to enter a public park, at which point he attempted to grab the bike from me. I might have resisted a little since it wasn't mine to give up, and his partner decided to mace me. I was much younger then, but I grew up real quick in that particular moment. Anyway, I went to jail and the bike got impounded. I remember sitting there in that cell next to some guy that they had just picked up for murder, just trying to piece it all together. It's probably the point in time that I really started to question "authority," and the apparent biases/stigmas associated with mountain biking. I was in Cali, not far from Santa Cruz where the whole movement is believed to have started. Anywho, if it weren't for them I might not give two shakes about access.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    What's next... this guy?
    LOL... he even looks like a Bandolero!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly when I got a little mouthy...
    YOU??? Gettin' mouthy??? Say it isn't so!!!
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Reminds me of a time when I borrowed a friends mountain bike (it was state of the art at the time...the first open bath RS Judy, IIRC) to ride to an outdoor festival in a popular city park. FWIW, the city had been pushing to ban bikes in this particular park for some time, but had only gotten as far as banning them in certain areas. When I got there, the "authorities" had closed the park to bikes, and charged a fee to store them. I hadn't anticipated any of that, so I did not bring a lock with me. I only brought enough dough to get in the festival and besides that I had ridden from Stockton to Lodi just to be there and it wasn't even my bike. It is a HUGE park, mind you. I pleaded with the guy to let me in, and promised that I would walk my bike. He agreed, but I guess he really wasn't the "authority." Long story short, these two cops approached me almost immediately and told me that the bike needed to go into the bike area, or I would have to leave. I informed him that the guy who gave me my ticket said it was OK as long as I walked it. I'm pretty sure he figured that I was lying and had snuck in, but I continued to plead my case. Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly when I got a little mouthy about how stoopid it was to ban bikes and charge a fee to enter a public park, at which point he attempted to grab the bike from me. I might have resisted a little since it wasn't mine to give up, and his partner decided to mace me. I was much younger then, but I grew up real quick in that particular moment. Anyway, I went to jail and the bike got impounded. I remember sitting there in that cell next to some guy that they had just picked up for murder, just trying to piece it all together. It's probably the point in time that I really started to question "authority," and the apparent biases/stigmas associated with mountain biking. I was in Cali, not far from Santa Cruz where the whole movement is believed to have started. Anywho, if it weren't for them I might not give two shakes about access.
    Yo..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Pax makes a good point. As far as the "authorities" are concerned, everyone is "suspect." That's actually part of their job is to remain neutral until such time that people are in danger of hurting themselves, or each other, and/or either party is flagrantly breaking the law. Unfortunately, the feature in these pix is not currently one that they recognize, so by default everyone is suspect. If not the latter, and people simply can't get along, then again it often boils down to vague definitions of a particular law as to who is right or wrong and fit for punishment, for which the righteous would then assume the power of a law (rather than simply dealing with it constructively) that may even have implications for him or her in the long run. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
    Well I guess the only solution for the time being is to fix what the jerk breaks. Eventually he will get tired of moving rocks.
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  81. #81
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    "Eventually he will get tired of moving rocks."

    I don't know... Looks like the d0uche is strong with this one.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    "Eventually he will get tired of moving rocks."

    I don't know... Looks like the d0uche is strong with this one.
    Sounds like there are more trail users that want the features than do not want them, so it is just a battle of attrition for now from what I can tell.
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  83. #83
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    Or until the base gets involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider View Post
    Or until the base gets involved.
    I sat in on a very interesting conversation with a rep from Kirtland AFB last night after the wilderness meeting. Very receptive about that little corner of the withdrawal. Everything with the gov takes forever. But good things could happen (some day). Don't hold your breath.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    It's not even a "cheater line." Nothing on the way down Otero is even in the main trail tread. They are all off to the side and entirely optional. Nothing to sneak up on Joe Average riding down the main path.
    I distinctly remember having to deviate from the trail just to hit that booter (and consequently eat **** upon botching the landing)... what kind of mentally deficient idiot looks at that and thinks 'I need to sanitize that'?

    I wouldn't anticipate rapid changes from the AF side, although it's encouraging that they're actually willing (especially seeing the bass-ackwards approaches being taken in Colo.Sprngs and around Camp Pendleton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    Reminds me of a time when I borrowed a friends mountain bike (it was state of the art at the time...the first open bath RS Judy, IIRC) to ride to an outdoor festival in a popular city park. FWIW, the city had been pushing to ban bikes in this particular park for some time, but had only gotten as far as banning them in certain areas. When I got there, the "authorities" had closed the park to bikes, and charged a fee to store them. I hadn't anticipated any of that, so I did not bring a lock with me. I only brought enough dough to get in the festival and besides that I had ridden from Stockton to Lodi just to be there and it wasn't even my bike. It is a HUGE park, mind you. I pleaded with the guy to let me in, and promised that I would walk my bike. He agreed, but I guess he really wasn't the "authority." Long story short, these two cops approached me almost immediately and told me that the bike needed to go into the bike area, or I would have to leave. I informed him that the guy who gave me my ticket said it was OK as long as I walked it. I'm pretty sure he figured that I was lying and had snuck in, but I continued to plead my case. Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly when I got a little mouthy about how stoopid it was to ban bikes and charge a fee to enter a public park, at which point he attempted to grab the bike from me. I might have resisted a little since it wasn't mine to give up, and his partner decided to mace me. I was much younger then, but I grew up real quick in that particular moment. Anyway, I went to jail and the bike got impounded. I remember sitting there in that cell next to some guy that they had just picked up for murder, just trying to piece it all together. It's probably the point in time that I really started to question "authority," and the apparent biases/stigmas associated with mountain biking. I was in Cali, not far from Santa Cruz where the whole movement is believed to have started. Anywho, if it weren't for them I might not give two shakes about access.
    Whoa! Pardon the age gap but you could put this to music and it could be next "Alice's Restaurant".

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    Quote Originally Posted by bg2lk15 View Post
    Whoa! Pardon the age gap but you could put this to music and it could be next "Alice's Restaurant".
    Maybe Johnny Cash?


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    I am only a former NM dude, but I have to ask - do you guys really use rocks that small to build features? Around here (UT) SOP is to use stuff that can only be moved by 3-4 people and/or winch to prevent this kind of vandalism. It's also helpful for general longevity, even if you don't get scumbags trying to ruin stuff.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I am only a former NM dude, but I have to ask - do you guys really use rocks that small to build features? Around here (UT) SOP is to use stuff that can only be moved by 3-4 people and/or winch to prevent this kind of vandalism. It's also helpful for general longevity, even if you don't get scumbags trying to ruin stuff.

    -Walt
    Yes! My kind of rock work. Winches and rock bars to build trail. Adds permanence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bg2lk15 View Post
    Yes! My kind of rock work. Winches and rock bars to build trail. Adds permanence.
    FS ain't gonna foot the bill for that kind of stuff.

    Perhaps we could start a donation within our local trail builders alliance. There's only a handful of members, though.

    I bet Walt and Doug would work really well together. Might take them 2 weeks to put in a feature, but it would take a demolition crew dismantle it. haha! JK

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    Ya know, the really cool thing about this trail is it's lack of uniformity, while maintaining a sort of symbiosis. It's got "flo," but at the same time integrating different ppls techniques (vision) aims at adding a lot of different elements, and pushing ppls skill sets. It's like an assembly line, but without any boring manuals!

    I dig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    It's like an assembly line, but without any boring manuals!

    I dig.
    I still can't dial in that f'ing manual - but I was never great at wheelies either...

    Just for me though... One table top somewhere..... I'll even carry the dirt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowtieterror View Post
    I still can't dial in that f'ing manual - but I was never great at wheelies either...

    Just for me though... One table top somewhere..... I'll even carry the dirt!
    haha! I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

    Have you scouted your location? How big? How small?

    I will carry the dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    I bet Walt and Doug would work really well together. Might take them 2 weeks to put in a feature, but it would take a demolition crew dismantle it. haha! JK
    Yeah, we don't use no stinkin' "pebbles" to build ramp ups!!!

    Bob's works are actually much beefier than mine... but he's strong like Ox and I'm just an Ol' Goat!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    FS ain't gonna foot the bill for that kind of stuff.

    Perhaps we could start a donation within our local trail builders alliance. There's only a handful of members, though.

    I bet Walt and Doug would work really well together. Might take them 2 weeks to put in a feature, but it would take a demolition crew dismantle it. haha! JK
    Huh. I guess you get out what you put in. It's common here (and everywhere else I have done trail work) for significant rock features to take quite a long time to build. Then you get to ride them for 10+ years instead of rebuilding them the next year because rain/vandals/usage destroyed them. Rock bars, hand winches, and teamwork are cheap, Forest Service or no. For a couple hundred bucks you and your buddies can pretty easily move 500 pound rocks for the rest of your building careers...

    To each their own, though. I hope that douche doesn't trash any more jumps, at least.

    -Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Huh. I guess you get out what you put in. It's common here (and everywhere else I have done trail work) for significant rock features to take quite a long time to build. Then you get to ride them for 10+ years instead of rebuilding them the next year because rain/vandals/usage destroyed them. Rock bars, hand winches, and teamwork are cheap, Forest Service or no. For a couple hundred bucks you and your buddies can pretty easily move 500 pound rocks for the rest of your building careers...

    To each their own, though. I hope that douche doesn't trash any more jumps, at least.

    -Walt
    You need to move back to NM. We need that kind of talent...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Huh. I guess you get out what you put in. It's common here (and everywhere else I have done trail work) for significant rock features to take quite a long time to build. Then you get to ride them for 10+ years instead of rebuilding them the next year because rain/vandals/usage destroyed them. Rock bars, hand winches, and teamwork are cheap, Forest Service or no. For a couple hundred bucks you and your buddies can pretty easily move 500 pound rocks for the rest of your building careers...

    To each their own, though. I hope that douche doesn't trash any more jumps, at least.

    -Walt
    Indeed.

  98. #98
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    There's a decent chance we will. We have a place in Los Alamos, just gotta see what the future holds for my wife and whether she wants to work full time or not.

    It really sounds like the mountain bike scene in NM has exploded from where it was when I lived there in the 90s. To be fair, *having* a mountain bike scene would basically count as "exploding" compared to back then...

    -Walt

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    He s back. I guess the a$$ w!pe is still at it. Or someone is. More things torn out again. Enough is enough. Time to make things real uncomfortable for this a$$ w!pe.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    There seems to be a repeating theme from last year developing as well.

    Aaron told me that the lil booter dropping into Malky Way got torn out too. I have not seen the evidence, but if it's true it's not him.

    Dancing puppets.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    There seems to be a repeating theme from last year developing as well.
    This is hilarious!!! You guys need to put up some critter cams!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    This is hilarious!!! You guys need to put up some critter cams!
    I'm working towards hilarious, but at the moment I'm still only slightly amused.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    This is hilarious!!! You guys need to put up some critter cams!
    Oh it's gone way past hilarious. I'm glad you think it's hilarious.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  104. #104
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    I am only a former NM dude, but I have to ask - do you guys really use rocks that small to build features? Around here (UT) SOP is to use stuff that can only be moved by 3-4 people and/or winch to prevent this kind of vandalism. It's also helpful for general longevity, even if you don't get scumbags trying to ruin stuff.
    Same philosophy here too in Colorado. If one person can move it, it's not a real rock, we use those to fill gaps. Build it with big stuff so it never moves, either by accident or by idiot.

    I'm a former short term nm'er.......

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    Agreed. Only build with rocks bears and idiots won't move.

  106. #106
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    Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals

    Not to sound grumpy but I have a problem with everyone acting tough saying they only build with huge rocks. Most features IE jumps are built with dirt. Sure jumps or drops can be built with huge rocks but you build with what the trail gives you!


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    Last edited by Andrew8404; 08-22-2015 at 10:11 PM.

  107. #107
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    Well, the video shows a drop/ramp built out of ~20-50# rocks piled up, though, right? Captain wackjob is moving many of them one-handed while haranguing the cameraman...

    My point was that if you're worried about vandalism (or just longevity) that's not a great way to do things. Obviously if you have no big rocks, c'est la vie. My memory of Otero is pretty fuzzy but I recall plenty of very large rocks being available.

    -Walt

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    Glad to see my favorite gap jump is back but boy that ramp seems twice as high as before!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew8404 View Post
    Glad to see my favorite gap jump is back but boy that ramp seems twice as high as before!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's sort of odd, there was still quite a "debris" field left too...mostly larger rocks that could not have been moved without a winch.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123 View Post
    It's sort of odd, there was still quite a "debris" field left too...mostly larger rocks that could not have been moved without a winch.
    Maybe that fatass-tight-shorts-guy can't lift much weight. At least he can pee standing up.

    Doesn't matter if someone is doing quality work or if they're fuc*ing up someone else's work, leaving any debris/scraps at any work site is wrong and shows poor ethics.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienTrees View Post
    Maybe that fatass-tight-shorts-guy can't lift much weight. At least he can pee standing up.

    Doesn't matter if someone is doing quality work or if they're fuc*ing up someone else's work, leaving any debris/scraps at any work site is wrong and shows poor ethics.
    I think the jump is still a work in progress not finished yet.


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    Most features IE jumps are built with dirt. Sure jumps or drops can be built with huge rocks but you build with what the trail gives you!
    This is true, but you can get creative. As it is now, a pile of simply stacked loaf of bread sized rocks begs to be dismantled. Bury it in dirt and the cranky dude would be faced with having to dig out each one, tougher if he didn't have tools.

    You don't need much to move big rocks if you are lucky enough to source them on site. We've been moving rocks this size all summer with just rockbars.

    Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-rock.jpg

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    You don't need much to move big rocks if you are lucky enough to source them on site. We've been moving rocks this size all summer with just rockbars.
    Watch out, Bob's gonna get excited!
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

    Building your trails at FooMTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Watch out, Bob's gonna get excited!
    Oink, oink. I'm moving to Utah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    This is true, but you can get creative. As it is now, a pile of simply stacked loaf of bread sized rocks begs to be dismantled. Bury it in dirt and the cranky dude would be faced with having to dig out each one, tougher if he didn't have tools.

    You don't need much to move big rocks if you are lucky enough to source them on site. We've been moving rocks this size all summer with just rockbars.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Who is going to be the first to invent steal finger gloves? This feature ain't called nail biter for nothing. There were some VW size rocks used in the first build, as they are all still scattered down below. He carries a small pick axe to tear away the dirt on top. Sure, you can use big rock for the foundation, but unless you are VERY GOOD, you still gotta use the filler. I believe he used some sturdy branches to pry the big rocks down the hill. Cranky dude ain't your ordinary vandal. He's very committed....

    Anyway, it's hitting better than ever. Thanks, cranky dude!

    Otero Trolls, Gnomes and Vandals-nail-biter-001.jpg

  116. #116
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    Seems to me, that if White Dodge Truck, Plate #948RZN NM is parked at an Otero trailhead, life could be made very hard on him - enough to make him experience just as much inconvenience as he creates.
    Simply letting the air out of all 4 of his tires at the trailhead, each time he parks there, would make his trail sanitizing project much less appealing for him. Or maybe a banana in the tail pipe

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    I think white dodge truck isn't the only one, he is just the only one that got caught. Need a database of all knob heads involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    I think white dodge truck isn't the only one, he is just the only one that got caught. Need a database of all knob heads involved.
    I think you might be onto something...

  119. #119
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    The Anointed One and his deputy have taken to parking at Tunnel. Too warm at Otero?

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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    Seems to me, that if *********** is parked at an Otero trailhead, life could be made very hard on him - enough to make him experience just as much inconvenience as he creates.
    Simply letting the air out of all 4 of his tires at the trailhead, each time he parks there, would make his trail sanitizing project much less appealing for him. Or maybe a banana in the tail pipe
    Now that's a can of worms...with a pull tab!

  121. #121
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    If you mean let the air out of his tires while he's standing there, OK. Otherwise it's just a cowardly act like his own vandalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    If you mean let the air out of his tires while he's standing there, OK. Otherwise it's just a cowardly act like his own vandalism.
    That, and with reasonable suspicion that others among us are involved, "justice" may not be served!

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    For myself, gotta treat them all the same.


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    Krampus!
    Last edited by Mtn. Biker123; 11-12-2015 at 07:22 PM.

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