Fire in David Canyon- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fire in David Canyon

    Thanks to Ramon and Steve for passing word on the smoke/fire in David Canyon - crews are on it and it’s estimated to be around 5 acres.

    Please keep your eyes peeled out there - I hear it’s super dry! Don’t hesitate to call 911 or the Bern Co non- emergency number - (505) 798-7000.

    Thank you!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Thanks to Ramon and Steve for passing word on the smoke/fire in David Canyon - crews are on it and it’s estimated to be around 5 acres.

    Please keep your eyes peeled out there - I hear it’s super dry! Don’t hesitate to call 911 or the Bern Co non- emergency number - (505) 798-7000.

    Thank you!!!!
    I heard the mission bell
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    This could be heaven or this could be hell...

  3. #3
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    Update from our FMO - Things are looking good held it at 15 acres with no impacts to any trails, understory burn in one of the RX units. No closures in the area at this time but would advise people to avoid the area of the 530 RD south of the 335/530 junction.

    This is a big reason for our treatments. An untreated area could have burned with more intensity and would have been harder to suppress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Update from our FMO - Things are looking good held it at 15 acres with no impacts to any trails, understory burn in one of the RX units. No closures in the area at this time but would advise people to avoid the area of the 530 RD south of the 335/530 junction.

    This is a big reason for our treatments. An untreated area could have burned with more intensity and would have been harder to suppress.

    So, no known causes of the understory burn? I'm assuming an "RX unit" is a tract that has been, or is currently being treated? Have you guys been burning back there? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up. Lynn and I put out a similar situation the end of last summer. It had been smoldering for days after you guys had left. It was pretty weird how it wasn't setting off any flames, but was just slowly migrating from deep below. It took us quite a while to extinguish it completely. You didn't make big deal out of it, but it was so close to the perimeter of the burn area that had it flamed it could have easily jumped the road.

    A lot of things COULD happen, but the fact is that setting fires intentionally and having big machines operating in that kind of environment is literally playing with fire. But, it pays the bills.

    Also, kudos to the mountain bikers and keeping a watchful eye out there. It sort of supports the idea of allowing some forms of recreation during the really dry seasons.

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    Since I've got your ear, what's up with Carlito Springs? No funds?

  6. #6
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    Carlito Springs is a Bernalillo County property Bryan. They are doing renovations to the historic buildings.

    Fire-wise, you’re talking two different situations. On one hand you had prescribed fire during favorable conditions (high live and dead fuel moisture’s, high humidity and low temps) - that’s when we burn. The current fire happened with very low fuel moisture’s and in high Fire danger - no we were not burning. I know you think we’re just a bunch of idiots that couldn’t know the difference and you’ve got it figured out. That fire you “put out” was winthin the perimeter of hard black under conditions that wouldn’t have allowed it to spread hence the reason it was creeping along (it would’ve gone out eventually) and why we didn’t respond.

    I’m assuming you’d prefer nothing to be done? What alternative would you advocate? Try answering without relying/blaming the past, that’s done now what?

    I posted the statement about treatments because it’s important folks understand our reasoning behind the treatments and how they fit within our fire regime. And, it’s only going to get more wide-spread. I expect you to have a full-on aneurism when we start thining on the backside of the Sandias later this season....

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    Sorry. My bad, man. I sent my wife and kids up there last year. Pretty neat place!

    Honestly, I'm conflicted on the whole fire suppression thing. The evidence suggests that you guys have good intentions, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. It does not matter what I think, I'm not the one who claims to be an expert. You make all sorts of assumptions on whether what you are doing is justified. When you say this coulda and that coulda, it's just a justification.

    All I know is that many places look like a war zone out there, still after some years of 'treatment.' I actually would not care so much if you did not take such a hard stance on environmental impacts of trails. And, when I say you, I mean the forest service. The Forest Service uses a lot of what should be an overall positive, as a way to deter any significant progress...almost as an excuse to do nothing. I find it hard to believe that you can slash, burn, and masticate so many acres of land in one area, but the moment you want to build a trail through an ideal location there seems to be an Arch site within spitting distance. The money for fire suppression is big money, Kerry. It's helping you for when you retire. The recreational side of things, well, probably not so much. That's not criticism, that is just a fact.

    Now, as far as my post above was concerned, I tried to be as diplomatic as possible and share my experience, without making assumptions or making you feel like you are being attacked. I even asked you to clarify a few things, but instead you turn it around on me as though I'm just attacking you. Just so you know, it's not to be taken personal if someone just asks for clarification. My apologies if you feel like I backed you into a corner, where you felt the need to get defensive. I will just close my comments in this thread by saying you guys are a lot like bike shops. Always there in a pinch, but you really do need people to be in a pinch. Thanks for being there, bro.

  8. #8
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    So yes we do avoid arch sites when doing treatments, they are flagged and gps’d for the contractor. We then hand thin them as ground disturbing activity would damage them. Burning wise, most sites are not affected but if there is a site that would be, we protect them usually by establishing hard black (by burning) around them - lots of two-fisting drip torches up, down and everywhere.

    I totally get looking at a recently treated unit and thinking how can the agency care about the environment? The answer can be summed up in a statement from the first Chief of the Forest Service, Gifford Pinchot - “where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question will always be decided from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number in the long run.”
    Gifford Pinchot, Chief Forester, 1905

    If you can get access, I strongly recommend watching the movie “The Greatest Good” - pretty well done. There is some good insight into our mission as well as how the FS came to be and how it survived the onslaught of special interests/logging, etc long ago. Thank God for Teddy or we may not have a place to ride at all.

    In practice it hasn’t always been perfect and I totally agree. But, we are directed to look at our work in the context of the long term from reducing fuel loading in fire adapted ecosystems to reducing point-source sedimentation from improperly designed trails. That’s the end game, no conspiracy. Yes there are political forces at work on both sides all the time but on the ground, we still hold true to our mission.

    Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Thanks to Ramon and Steve for passing word on the smoke/fire in David Canyon - crews are on it and it’s estimated to be around 5 acres.

    Please keep your eyes peeled out there - I hear it’s super dry! Don’t hesitate to call 911 or the Bern Co non- emergency number - (505) 798-7000.

    Thank you!!!!
    Thanks for providing this phone number Kerry.

    Would it be possible for the FS to provide this information on the trail signs? Maybe a sticker on the back of the sign providing contact numbers for reporting these situations.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  10. #10
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    Hey, It was Ramon's eyes. He called me with a bad signal and I called you, Thanks Ramon. This fire just shows how important the thinning is out there. If that area had not been thinned, it could have been a bad situation for us here.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  11. #11
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    any word on how the fire started?
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky dick View Post
    any word on how the fire started?
    Had to be human caused. Sur hasn't been any lightning. Heard anything Kerry?
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    "Seeking The Greatest Good" Movie

    [QUOTE=skerry00;13616182
    If you can get access, I strongly recommend watching the movie “The Greatest Good” - pretty well done. There is some good insight into our mission as well as how the FS came to be and how it survived the onslaught of special interests/logging, etc long ago. Thank God for Teddy or we may not have a place to ride at all.
    Cheers.[/QUOTE]

    The movie is available on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzJeqQfrxN4

    Edited to add:
    OK I noticed that Youtube movie is "Seeking the Greatest Good". It is not the Forest Service movie "The greatest good"
    Here is a trailer for "The greatest good"
    https://archive.org/details/USDAFore...d-MovieTrailer
    And you can buy the DVD from the Forest Service at
    https://www.fs.fed.us/greatestgood/order/film.shtml

    Mars
    Last edited by Mars29; 04-15-2018 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Add clarification

  14. #14
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    It was Ramon that called 911, I was calling the FS, and someone else called the fire dept, and sheriff. All went to voicemail...

  15. #15
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    "The Greatest Good" Movie

    I found The Greatest Good movie on-line
    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play...-Greatest-Good

    The other one on Youtube appears to be a shorter version.

    Mars

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars29 View Post
    I found The Greatest Good movie on-line
    http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play...-Greatest-Good

    The other one on Youtube appears to be a shorter version.

    Mars
    What a propaganda piece that your tax dollars paid for! I guess the price pales in comparison to what the FS cost taxpayers when they started the Cerro Grande fire, destroyed towns and lives and let's not forget they decided to do another RX near Grants just recently that went out of control when all the forecast models showed extreme winds and record dry conditions. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out it was the FS or their contractor that started the David Canyon fire.........
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky dick View Post
    What a propaganda piece that your tax dollars paid for! I guess the price pales in comparison to what the FS cost taxpayers when they started the Cerro Grande fire, destroyed towns and lives and let's not forget they decided to do another RX near Grants just recently that went out of control when all the forecast models showed extreme winds and record dry conditions. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out it was the FS or their contractor that started the David Canyon fire.........
    The Cerro Grande fire was started by the Bureau of Land Management. It's important to get at least one of your facts right when you're attempting to troll with misinformation. Deep State, no you're the State! MAGA!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blandy_McNugget View Post
    The Cerro Grande fire was started by the Bureau of Land Management. It's important to get at least one of your facts right when you're attempting to troll with misinformation. Deep State, no you're the State! MAGA!
    The only troll was linking to the propaganda piece produced by the FS with your tax dollars, to justify their management of your lands. Oh, and the link was originally provided by a FS employee. Oh, and I wonder whose time he was on when he's cruising the internet? No, it was not the BLM that started that fire. It was an RX started by the Park Service under full consultation with the FS..............
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sschwing73 View Post
    My friend posed an interesting question to me the other day. This ideology can be summed up as follows:

    Lets say you are in a fully autonomous vehicle that is heading for an almost certain fatal collision with three pedestrians jaywalking at a crosswalk. The only way to avoid potentially injuring/killing the three pedestrians is to enter into oncoming traffic, or slam itself and it's passenger into a concrete wall. If the car is programmed to serve the greater good, then the obvious choice is to commit suicide, killing itself and the driver. Now, what if one or more of those people crossing the crosswalk are a murderer, a rapist, or even worse a roadie (sorry, couldn't help myself). What greater good was served by such protocols?
    This is referred to as "The Trolley Problem" and has been around since 1905 ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem. A sociopath would run over the group, backup and get the jaywalker thereby scoring the maximum points in GTA.


    Quote Originally Posted by sschwing73 View Post
    While the greatest good is something we should all consider, as it reflects our individual experience, it's not something that is really tangible/achievable in so much that it has predictable benefits in the here and now. The ideology itself is so ingrained into the FS culture, that such lofty goals give those with power to implement policy the idea that they are beyond reproach.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

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