Torn between these 2 Moto's- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Torn between these 2 Moto's

    Fantom Pro DS http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ds_3x10_xi.htm

    Fantom Team http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ntom_teamX.htm

    I'm not a racer or anything, but I believe in the saying, "Buy once, cry once".

    I can wait a month or two until the Team is back in stock so that doesn't matter. And I really don't know much other than XTR is the best, and they're both XTR but one is the DynaSys..

  2. #2
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    The Fantom Team you are looking at is a 2010 and it is being replaced by the 2011 Fantom Team for $2099.

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    Different riding styles in mind with the two bikes, so it depends on what your looking for. What do you ride now and what type of riding you plan on doing? I bought a DS pro a few weeks ago and really love the bike. I had been riding a Specialized Epic for several years and the Moto doesn't climb as well, but descends so much smoother. Really fun bike going downhill. I hadn't heard the 'buy once, cry once' before, but I spent a lot of time researching and worrying about my purchase. Minus a few items the component spec is really great on these bikes. As for the frame I could go for a little less standover and little more top tube length, but the frame works with the spec and handles well.

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    Thanks Higg... It will be a mix of road, dirt trails and mountain. I'm not a downhiller. Right now I ride an older Gary Fisher Joshua Y frame. Good bike but I want to try something new.

    Buy once cry once: basically I'd rather spend the money up front instead of wishing I would've got something better in the first place. My budget is no more than $2000 and I want most bang for the buck and it seems that Moto is just that. My LBS want to sell me a Specialzed Camber, but it'd cost more and the components aren't even close to this moto.

  5. #5
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    Just keep in mind that these bikes are HEAVY! The frames are 7lbs. The Pro model is probably around 30lbs. They build the Team model up with all these weight weenie parts just to get its weight down. The tires, tubes and cassette are useless for most "real" mountain biking. So once you have swapped out those parts you gain about 2 pounds right off the bat. But if you are okay with that, it does come with incredible parts for the money.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Just keep in mind that these bikes are HEAVY! The frames are 7lbs. The Pro model is probably around 30lbs. They build the Team model up with all these weight weenie parts just to get its weight down. The tires, tubes and cassette are useless for most "real" mountain biking. So once you have swapped out those parts you gain about 2 pounds right off the bat. But if you are okay with that, it does come with incredible parts for the money.
    They aren't really that heavy. My DS Pro is 28lb with everything but a bottle. The frames are not 7lb. I think there is a picture around the Moto forums of a Fantom DS frame hanging on a scale. I'm too lazy to look right now but it weighed less than 5lb. I don't know where you get your information from but please don't come in this forum and bash Motos without knowing jack crap about them.

    Edit: No I'm not too lazy here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=291415&page=5

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by inteq9 View Post
    They aren't really that heavy. My DS Pro is 28lb with everything but a bottle. The frames are not 7lb. I think there is a picture around the Moto forums of a Fantom DS frame hanging on a scale. I'm too lazy to look right now but it weighed less than 5lb. I don't know where you get your information from but please don't come in this forum and bash Motos without knowing jack crap about them.

    Edit: No I'm not too lazy here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=291415&page=5



    Without starting a flame war, there is no freakin way that A DS frame weighs less than 5lbs. Over 7 pounds sounds about right. For a reference, the Salsa Spearfish is one of the lighter F/S frames and weighs slightly less than 6 pounds. One of the pictures that you reference is a frame without a shock. Lets try and keep it real and compare apples to apples. 6.9 lbs. with shock in size medium.

  8. #8
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    I don't race and I don't worry much about the weight of my bikes, but I did step on the bathroom scale with my Moto and then my Specialized Epic and they were virually the same, FTW.

    I road a Specialized Rockhopper FSR for a long time that I think is pretty similar to the Joshua model your riding Mung, and you will see a world of difference between any new mt bike and what your on now. i know what you mean about the Camber, I really wanted an Enduro, but at $2k your entry level and who wants to drop that kind of money on a low spec bike? At this price range you have a lot of options, not just Motos. In your shoes I'de probably buy the Team, between the two. Happy Hunting!

  9. #9
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    I'm so damn indecisive. Now I'm thinking of keeping my GF for mountains and getting a hard tail for everything else. Specifically this one:

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._team_3x10.htm

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by inteq9 View Post
    They aren't really that heavy. My DS Pro is 28lb with everything but a bottle. The frames are not 7lb. I think there is a picture around the Moto forums of a Fantom DS frame hanging on a scale. I'm too lazy to look right now but it weighed less than 5lb. I don't know where you get your information from but please don't come in this forum and bash Motos without knowing jack crap about them.

    Edit: No I'm not too lazy here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=291415&page=5
    First off don't tell me that I am coming into this forum to bash Motos and that I don't know crap. I personally have owned a Motobecane. I have recommended Motos for friends, and even built some up for friends. I even have a Fantom sitting in my dining room as I write this. Don't be such a fanboy.

    Second of all, maybe if you weren't mathematically challenged you could have actually calculated the weight of the frame in the picture you linked as your proof. The frame with shock is 3.14kg. There are 2.2lbs in a kg. So 3.14 x 2.2=6.9lbs. So I guess it isn't 7 lbs, but are you trying to tell me that 6.9lbs is light for a supposedly high end XC frame. I personally have weighed a large Fantom Trail frame with coil shock and it was 7.5lbs. Most heavy XC frames come in at 6lbs. Most good AM frames are lighter than 6.9lbs.

    Third, I would like to see your Pro, with all stock parts, on a calibrated scale showing 28lbs. I highly doubt it.

    Last edited by ljsmith; 07-22-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mung View Post
    I'm so damn indecisive. Now I'm thinking of keeping my GF for mountains and getting a hard tail for everything else. Specifically this one:

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._team_3x10.htm
    That is a very sweet hardtail. I much prefer the Moto hardtails. Mainly because the FS designs are so dated and heavy.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mung View Post
    I'm so damn indecisive. Now I'm thinking of keeping my GF for mountains and getting a hard tail for everything else. Specifically this one:

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._team_3x10.htm




    That is a nice ride, the geo on the Moto hardtails is much better than the F/S offerings IMHO.

  13. #13
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    I am a new member and cannot create my own thread yet (5 post min) but everyone in this thread appears to be able to answer my questions.

    1) I am an ex-motocross racer and mountain biker from the 80s who raised a family and did the career thing and am now 47, 6'3" 225 pounds and slightly out of shape but want to get back into riding here in Marin. I am looking to buy a bike I can grow into and ride "all mountain" as well on easy trails with the girlfriend and younger kids. I like light weight bikes with smooth shifting. Curious if full suspension bike would be beneficial. What should I consider on BD for under $1,000?

    2) Girlfriend is not athletic, thin, not strong 5'11" but a tough and determined beginning MTB'er and needs a bike to grow into. She needs something that will help her not fall too far behind me and be an efficient performer on trail and hill. Suggestions on BD? She liked the fit of the Specialized Stumpjumper today since the reach to bars was not far like others. She also liked the fit of the Cannondale Trail.

    Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    I am a new member and cannot create my own thread yet (5 post min) but everyone in this thread appears to be able to answer my questions.

    1) I am an ex-motocross racer and mountain biker from the 80s who raised a family and did the career thing and am now 47, 6'3" 225 pounds and slightly out of shape but want to get back into riding here in Marin. I am looking to buy a bike I can grow into and ride "all mountain" as well on easy trails with the girlfriend and younger kids. I like light weight bikes with smooth shifting. Curious if full suspension bike would be beneficial. What should I consider on BD for under $1,000?

    2) Girlfriend is not athletic, thin, not strong 5'11" but a tough and determined beginning MTB'er and needs a bike to grow into. She needs something that will help her not fall too far behind me and be an efficient performer on trail and hill. Suggestions on BD? She liked the fit of the Specialized Stumpjumper today since the reach to bars was not far like others. She also liked the fit of the Cannondale Trail.

    Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
    There are many threads about inexpensive FS bikes and why one shouldn't. That's all I will say about it other than your money will get you a lot more if you look at HTs.

    As far as the gf I would recommend either the:
    fantom ht elite http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...om_elite09.htm
    or the fantom ht comp http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...om_comp_xi.htm

    I'm only recommending BD bikes because you are posting in the BD forum.

    /threadjack
    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaLL6 View Post
    There are many threads about inexpensive FS bikes and why one shouldn't. That's all I will say about it other than your money will get you a lot more if you look at HTs.

    As far as the gf I would recommend either the:
    fantom ht elite
    or the fantom ht comp

    I'm only recommending BD bikes because you are posting in the BD forum.

    /threadjack
    Thanks for the input. I didn't see any threads downgrading the FS on BD.

    What are the cliff notes? If they wear quickly, I am not opposed to upgrading components down the road. My assumption is FS is plusher than HT for us old folk

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    Thanks for the input. I didn't see any threads downgrading the FS on BD.
    Not so much here but you don't have to stray to far too find some lengthy discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by duffin View Post
    What are the cliff notes? If they wear quickly, I am not opposed to upgrading components down the road. My assumption is FS is plusher than HT for us old folk
    As a general rule the quality of a frame has to be taken into consideration when looking at upgrading the components hanging off of it. Kind of an obvious statement but read some of the numerous threads found elsewhere on this board. Just look for a subject line something like "I want to buy an FS bike for $500."

    Other good ones to read are the manabiker ones in the Moto area, but he runs a pricier Moto FS than you were talking about in your op.

    And FS bikes are more plush, but you aren't old. For that matter neither am I. Fwiw, my avatar is me in '60 or '61 and I still don't own an FS bike, but I don't 'huck' either.
    Mike
    2011 Moto Fly Pro

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaLL6 View Post
    Not so much here but you don't have to stray to far too find some lengthy discussions.


    As a general rule the quality of a frame has to be taken into consideration when looking at upgrading the components hanging off of it. Kind of an obvious statement but read some of the lengthy threads found elsewhere on this board. Just look for a subject line something like "I want to buy an FS bike for $500."

    Other good ones to read are the manabiker ones in the Moto area, but he runs a pricier Moto FS than you were talking about in your op.

    And FS bikes are more plush, but you aren't old. For that matter neither am I. Fwiw, my avatar is me in '60 or '61 and I still don't own an FS bike, but I don't 'huck' either.
    Gotcha

    I think you are saying the Motobecane FS frames at that price point aren't going to hold up versus a HT?

    I can ride strong on rolling trails, but I want to get back into riding uphill and going downhill fast here in Marin County. I like the concept and plushness of FS, but I don't see myself leaping off anything greater than 3" drop-offs.

    I want a XC bike, right, or an All-Mountain? I like light weight bikes I can throw around between the legs with smooth shifting, but having said that the FS looks so cool and makes me want one... . I am a component junky and a gadget guy and will enjoy upgrading components if the frame will hold up.

    I looked at BD, but not sure whether to go FS or HT for $1,000. I get your argument that I can get even better components with a HT, but it seems an FS will give me plushness for the next 10 years and save my bones a bit.

  18. #18
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    The general forum consensus for FS bikes is not to consider anything under $1500. I don't ride FS so I don't have an opinion based on experience.

    I really like the value at the HT elite and HT comp level. I would recommend the Fly Pro like I have except for two reasons. It is a bit over your price point (but not much) and it comes with the SID fork which is a very good XC piece but not for all mountain-style riding.
    Mike
    2011 Moto Fly Pro

  19. #19
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    I thought like you originally, but was advised more firmly about the $1,500 guideline.

    What is confusing is that I can get better components for less on Bikes Direct. For example, if I get a FS like the Fantom Comp DS, it has components equal to a $2,500 to 3,000 bike from Kona, Ellsworth, Trek and Specialized and with maybe lesser components, yet the Fantom Comp DS is $1,100.

    I also thought with lockouts I can do uphills equal to a HT and have the luxury of FS for downhill.
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  20. #20
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    rear suspension on those is fauxbar, there are much better options out there. for overall I recomend the dw-link system or the fsr system

  21. #21
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    Well, I closed the deal. But not a Moto. Not a FS. Not a 29er.

    Phase One is to ride XC trails on a cheaper bike until my cardio is up and my skills need better equipment. Plus girlfriend needs time to catchup.

    Thank you all for your help. Now you get to rip my deal.

    Craigslist $300
    New, and I mean new. Old man won it in a raffle and never road it. Sat in original box in his garage.

    Trek 6500 SL, 21.5"
    http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/B...6500&Type=bike
    (Minus disc brakes in picture - I got pad brakes)

    I wonder what the first upgrade will be?

    My bet are the forks -1-1/8" x 10" tube.

    Suggestions based on the above link?

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