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  1. #1
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    Ti Fantom 29

    Heard Mention of a Ti Fantom(xc/am) 29 coming sometime soon =)
    Pre-orders next spring ??

  2. #2
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    I have my fingers crossed.

  3. #3
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    I would be positively giddy if BD spec'd a ti Fantom 29 with a 20mm fork and front hub =)

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    Please, please build a beefier/heavier ti frame, I would be all over it

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    A Ti Fantom 29er would be great. I am looking for a more rugged Ti-frame 29er to ride thousands of miles on rough gravel or fire roads. The Ti Fly 29er is a great bike, but not really spec'd for my application. So...I am thinking of buying the Fly 29er frame/fork and building it up from there. But, in addition to the cost of the frame ($1099), it will cost more than $1500 to outfit the bike with SLX drivetrain components, disc brakes and custom wheels. It seems that Bike Direct could design a great Ti 29er for the serious non-racing rider who is more interested in having a bike spec'd with durable components than the lightest weight racing components.

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    Short (16.5" chain stays) would make it handle great. You already have one (Fly Ti 29er) that makes the XC racer / weight weenies happy. So why not make the Phantom different - more appealing to riders with good bike handling skills? This would fit with the more beefed up AM concept you are going for with the Phantom. At least shorten the stays on the sizes small and medium.

    Ovalized and swaybacked top tube for more vertical compliance would make it a home run.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain
    A Ti Fantom 29er would be great. I am looking for a more rugged Ti-frame 29er to ride thousands of miles on rough gravel or fire roads.
    +1.

    Use Ventana's rear suspension geometry. Or Kona Hei Hei 29. Those should be unencumbered by licenses and they work just fine.

    I am tempted to order one Eriksen, but that is $3500 for frame only. And I am perfectly happy with bikesdirect Ti quality in my Fly Team. But I want to complement it with a FS 29r, for longer riding..

    If selling a complete kit - please, this is time to switch to through axle forks in front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pureslop
    Short (16.5" chain stays) would make it handle great. You already have one (Fly Ti 29er) that makes the XC racer / weight weenies happy. So why not make the Phantom different - more appealing to riders with good bike handling skills? This would fit with the more beefed up AM concept you are going for with the Phantom. At least shorten the stays on the sizes small and medium.

    Ovalized and swaybacked top tube for more vertical compliance would make it a home run.

    16.5 stays leaves little room for big tires
    I have drawing at 17.5 and we can go up to 2.5 tires

    what angles are you thinking?
    I've got 70.5 HT and 73 ST

    my concern is a nice handling bike that is still comfortable enough to stay on all day
    and I am targeting two models - one at $1500 and one at $2000
    both with Reba

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    16.5 stays leaves little room for big tires
    I have drawing at 17.5 and we can go up to 2.5 tires

    what angles are you thinking?
    I've got 70.5 HT and 73 ST

    my concern is a nice handling bike that is still comfortable enough to stay on all day
    and I am targeting two models - one at $1500 and one at $2000
    both with Reba
    So how would the ride compare to the Fly Team Ti 29er? From your comments, I gather that the two new models would have somewhat better shock absorbing qualities whereas the Fly Team emphasizes "sport car" handling. Is that a reasonable layman's way of looking at the two frame styles? Thanks for your help. I am just trying to decide which bike might best fit my needs.

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    I would love to see the Fantom hardtail frame built up to be a light, yet beefy and durable all mountain bike.
    120-140mm travel so either a Reba Dual Air or Pike Dual Air
    X.9 drivetrain
    Elixir CR brakes
    20mm Maxle hub and fork
    Stylo 2.2AM cranks with bashguard
    Stylo post, stem, bar
    Lock on grips
    Decent saddle
    Panaracer Rampage tires or Fire DH

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    what angles are you thinking?
    I've got 70.5 HT and 73 ST
    Sounds good. About a degree slacker then Mooto X. Slack is the new black.

    How about 100mm on each end.

    20mm Maxle, if at all possible.

    Recently added 10mm bolt on rear axle on my Fly Team - along with a new Hope Hoops wheelset. Noticeable improvement.
    Last edited by Broccoli; 02-02-2010 at 11:04 AM.

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    for an all mountain bike I see no reason why you shouldn't have a bolt on rear and bigger front axle like the 20mm Maxle. I know that a bolt on rear would be less convenient for pulling it off the frame but that is only a minor inconvenience and you gain a stiffer, stronger platform for riding. Well worth it IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdpolk
    I know that a bolt on rear would be less convenient for pulling it off the frame
    I did not find it to be the case - that is not with a 12mm Syntace or Maxle (which should be even easier), but with a regular 10mm drop-out, but using bolt-on instead of QR. About the same difficulty as with bolt-on skewers (that are also an improvement over QR, save 75g and cost $12 retail and are faster to install and to change).

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    Since two Fantom Ti 29er models will be designed, perhaps there could be one for rugged ridding on fire roads and/or singletrack. Below is a build that I spec'd out for applications similar to the Great Divide Race, which is the type of build I am looking for. Cheers!

    Fly Team Ti Frame with Reba Race 100 mm shock: 7.20 pounds
    FSA Orbit XL II Headset: 0.22 pounds
    Shimano SLX M660 drive train kit: 5.08 pounds
    Avid BB7 Disc Brake Complete kit: 2.02 pounds
    Mavic TN719 29er with XT hubs): 4.68 pounds
    Tompson Elite Seat post: 0.52 pounds
    WLB Laser V Team Saddle: 0.58 pounds
    Easton EA70 Monkeybar Riser Bar- 685 mm wide: 0.58 pounds
    Easton EA70 Stem: 0.36
    Pedals and tires: To be determined

    My complete post can be view here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...57800#poststop

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    Brazed on rear rack mounts would be nice...

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    Quote Originally Posted by knutso
    Please, please build a beefier/heavier ti frame, I would be all over it
    Why ? Aren't these Ti frames already strong enough?
    Anyone complain these are noodly?

    Would like to hear as I am thinking about getting one...
    It is possible for rice to absorb other odors in storage. Or could be the quality of water in it was prepared. Mahatma Rice

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    Why BB7's? Why not Hydraulics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Rain
    Since two Fantom Ti 29er models will be designed, perhaps there could be one for rugged ridding on fire roads and/or singletrack. Below is a build that I spec'd out for applications similar to the Great Divide Race, which is the type of build I am looking for. Cheers!

    Fly Team Ti Frame with Reba Race 100 mm shock: 7.20 pounds
    FSA Orbit XL II Headset: 0.22 pounds
    Shimano SLX M660 drive train kit: 5.08 pounds
    Avid BB7 Disc Brake Complete kit: 2.02 pounds
    Mavic TN719 29er with XT hubs): 4.68 pounds
    Tompson Elite Seat post: 0.52 pounds
    WLB Laser V Team Saddle: 0.58 pounds
    Easton EA70 Monkeybar Riser Bar- 685 mm wide: 0.58 pounds
    Easton EA70 Stem: 0.36
    Pedals and tires: To be determined

    My complete post can be view here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...57800#poststop
    It is possible for rice to absorb other odors in storage. Or could be the quality of water in it was prepared. Mahatma Rice

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldassracer
    Why BB7's? Why not Hydraulics?
    The Avid BB7's would be much easier to service in remote areas. It is a trade off between extra performance and the ability to do trail repairs. Since my 29er will be used in part for riding in very remote areas, similar to the conditions encountered in the Great Divide Race, I'm trying to think about the best components for my specific application. Here is an article about designing a bike for the Great Divide Race:

    http://www.adventurecycling.org/feat...dividegear.cfm

    Cheers

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldassracer
    Why ? Aren't these Ti frames already strong enough?
    Anyone complain these are noodly?

    Would like to hear as I am thinking about getting one...
    They are not noodly or weak - but I would not want to put, say, a 120mm+ TA fork on my 26" Fly Ti. Ain't designed for it. 2.4" tires would not fit either.. On the other hand 100mm and 2.2" just a short time ago was a burly trail bike. So no complaints.

    Something like On One Inbred 456 Ti - that is slack and build for 140mm fork would be sweet. To complement the race bike..

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    not sure but won't a longer travel fork make the angles slacker anyway?


    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    They are not noodly or weak - but I would not want to put, say, a 120mm+ TA fork on my 26" Fly Ti. Ain't designed for it. 2.4" tires would not fit either.. On the other hand 100mm and 2.2" just a short time ago was a burly trail bike. So no complaints.

    Something like On One Inbred 456 Ti - that is slack and build for 140mm fork would be sweet. To complement the race bike..
    It is possible for rice to absorb other odors in storage. Or could be the quality of water in it was prepared. Mahatma Rice

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldassracer
    [B][B]not sure but won't a longer travel fork make the angles slacker anyway?
    Also raise the BB, and move you back to screw up handling - even if the headtube does not get damaged. Frames like 456 or my TransAm are designed slacker from the start - with steeper seat tube to preserve position for climbing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    16.5 stays leaves little room for big tires
    I have drawing at 17.5 and we can go up to 2.5 tires

    what angles are you thinking?
    I've got 70.5 HT and 73 ST

    my concern is a nice handling bike that is still comfortable enough to stay on all day
    and I am targeting two models - one at $1500 and one at $2000
    both with Reba
    Yeah!
    I like those angles and hope they are based on a fork no longer than 120mm, would be nice to use the reba's capability for changing travel adjustment spacers to steepen the angles and drop the bb at times , maybe a little bit less st angle would help for that approach, however those angles are sick either way.

    I think everyone would be willing to pay a fair bit extra for a 20mm maxle spec

    I personally wouldn't mind less tire clearance in exchange for a bit shorter stay, 2.35 is a plenty big tire for a 29er me thinks

    THANKS MIKE for making this happen!
    Last edited by knutso; 02-09-2010 at 11:32 AM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    16.5 stays leaves little room for big tires
    I have drawing at 17.5 and we can go up to 2.5 tires

    what angles are you thinking?
    I've got 70.5 HT and 73 ST

    my concern is a nice handling bike that is still comfortable enough to stay on all day
    and I am targeting two models - one at $1500 and one at $2000
    both with Reba
    Mike, thanks for asking.

    Check out Canfieldbrothers.com and how the Nimble Nine frame design allows big tires and shorter stays. They do this by moving the seat tube forward (not just bending it). This in combination with the bolt on front derailleur is an easy fix. Why compromise handling for a design constraint that is so easily fixable? 29" wheels already make the chain stays feel even longer, all else constant.

    Longer chain stays on the size L and XL could be appropriate, but 17.5 is too long for your XS, S, and M sizes. Many people are going custom for Ti and steel for this reason. Production companies just don't get it. Be bold, be the first.

    Also, on the HT angle, a little slacker is better for your target market on something like the Phantom. Keep in mind that a hard tail needs a slacker angle than full suspension, all else constant. This is because on a hard tail, you have no sag in the rear, so the angle changes as the front sags. I would suggest 69*. In my experience there is no negative compromise to going slacker, until you get into the "wheel flop" area of, I don't know, 65* or so. 69 should be perfect.

    Further, it makes no sense for the Phantom to have steeper HT and longer CS than your Fly Ti XC race bike, which has great geometry for its intended market. Isn't the Phantom supposed to be more All Mountain?

    Thanks

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    Cannondale's new "Flash" (the super light carbon hardtail) has 16.6 chain stays on size S, and 17.5 on the bigger ones. I was surprised to see this and wonder if its correct.

    Chain stay length needs to be varied with each size just like the top tube and seat tube. Or at least shorten the size S and M. Don't punish the little people.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pureslop
    Cannondale's new "Flash" (the super light carbon hardtail) has 16.6 chain stays on size S, and 17.5 on the bigger ones. I was surprised to see this and wonder if its correct.

    Chain stay length needs to be varied with each size just like the top tube and seat tube. Or at least shorten the size S and M. Don't punish the little people.
    that crack n dale probably can't fit a 2.5 tire nor can it stand up to the same real world punishment of a Ti frame i would imagine...anyone know?
    It is possible for rice to absorb other odors in storage. Or could be the quality of water in it was prepared. Mahatma Rice

  26. #26
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    Thanks mike for asking our opinion on the geometry of the bike. Name one other bike company that will ask for input on the manufacturing of a bike.......... NONE! That a boy! Be a leader. all the input I'm reading sounds great. All I can say is make it as aggressive as it can possible be. A real XC race monster. Any new info on pre orders? My credit card is at the ready! LET'S GO!

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