Sizing Help for 26er Fly TI, Please!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Sizing Help for 26er Fly TI, Please!!

    Yes, I did a thread search. Most of the threads are for 29ers and not for the 26ers and shorter folks like myself. Yes, I did think of a 29er but they're heavier and just not to my liking really.

    I'm 5'6.5" with a 29" inseam. I usually ride 22.4" - 22.8" ETTs. The Motobecane geo chart reads 22.34 for the 18" !!??? What? The frame fits almost like a road frame!! That means I'll be sitting high just to get the ETT I need. But then, on my other 26er FS rigs, the lowest I drop my seat to is about 18" anyhow. So then I guess it should be okay.

    BUT the Motobecane website suggests the 18" frame for up to 6' tall folks? Wow!!! Confused
    Last edited by myitch; 12-26-2010 at 01:21 PM.
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  2. #2
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    The ETT's on the 26" Fly Ti's are indeed way short. I prefer a 25" to 25.5" ETT and had a 24.1" ETT with the XL!

    It would be odd to drop the saddle that much on a HT...I mean, I can't guess exactly how you ride but it's just not done as much as on full suspension bikes. You should be okay with the 18" based on what you've described above.

    One more thing, the 26" bike has a really steep head tube angle, so it's worth getting an appropriate or longer ETT to keep it balanced when you start descending or log-hopping. Mine was kind of scary going over logs actually...unbeatable on the climbs though...

  3. #3
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    Okay, thanks for the reply. I just had to hear it to be sure. That's the shortest ETT I've ever heard of. I mean it's ridiculously short, way out of proportion. Great if you've got a looonnnggg torso but most folks arent quite built that way.

    I saw that steep head angle too. That's kinda scary for technical terrain, which I love. All my other rigs have at least a 69 HA. But 71?! I was thinking of going with a 120mm fork to slacken the HA a bit but that might throw off the geo too much and really highten an already too high standover height.

    Funny, the 29er has a much better geo but they're just heavier by nature and slower in the tights. I really want a light ti bike but might have to rethink this.
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  4. #4
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    I've got the same body dimensions as you and the same ETT preference. I've ridden 16-18" 26" bikes and liked the bigger ones for some reason, though a small Yeti 575 fit me pretty well too. There's no universal sizing scheme really. Each manufacturer puts out their own numbers, so it's best just to go by ETT. If the 26" Fly in size 18" has an ETT of 22.5", go with that. Don't go by recommended if you know what fits you--that's more like a guide for new online bike shoppers who always ask which size for me.

    The sizes for 29ers are like 1 size bigger. I had to go 15.5". Problem with the small sized 29ers is toe overlap. With clipless pedals, it's not a prob, but I buzz the front of my shoes when I use platform pedals quite often. 3 times just tonight.

    I don't think the Ti Fly is for you. When you go with a bigger fork, all sorts of changes happen: longer wheelbase, slacker SA, higher BB, higher cockpit... I know I kind of regret buying the 29er version. I like technical riding too and I'd never go back to a 26" HT. 26" FS maybe, but also checking out 29er FS. I'm breaking stuff on this 29er Ti HT and bought expensive upgrades already--only the SRAM bits (inc. Avid, Rock Shox), frame, headset+spacers, cables are still stock on it at this point.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, I really thought about the 29er Motobecane. But the weight deters me. I'd buy just the frame/fork combo since, like you, I know I'd end up replacing stuff anyways. Vuelta wheels? I know those wheels would just fall apart in the rocks that I ride. I wouldnt want squealing Avid brakes. And Kendas are crap tires that blow at the beads from my experience.

    The way I'd want to build it, it'd end up being about 26+lbs. And that's with XT drivetrain, Hope Pro 2/Mavic 819 wheelset, Reba, and Speciaized tubeless GRID tires. At that weight, it defeats my purpose in building a ti hardtail. Weighs about as much as my nice squishy XCish Flux that climbs well and holds up to the rocks.

    Hmm, maybe I just need to keep my Flux and forgo the ti hardtail idea altogether.
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  6. #6
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    The 26er Ti Fly has ridiculous geometry. Hard to believe the bike per its size could be so short. Seems like a pretty grevious mistake to offer a mainstream 26 inch Ti hardtail which should be one of their biggest sellers with such oddball geometry. The 29er Ti fly has excellent geometry however. I built mine frameset up as I wanted particular components as discussed. Its been a great bike and a hard value to match in the industry for a 29er Ti hardtail. Lots of great bikes out there however and don't settle when it comes to geometry...fit is the most important ingredient in a bike purchase.

    PS:I typically follow Varaxis' posts because he doesn't seem to like the Ti Fly 29er very much. It may have something to do with his size. I am a bigger guy and the frame just works for me. I do agree about the components and that is why I built mine frameset up. But where we disagree is with respect to the frame. The geometry, compliance and stiffness are excellent. If you back out the price of the frame minus Reba race shock...the frame costs $650. This deal in the industry for this fine of frame is unmatched. You can't really touch it for twice the price.

    There is no perfect bicycle in my experience but there are extraordinary values from time to time and the Ti Fly 29er frameset is such a value. A shame really about the 26er Ti Fly. I like 26 inch bikes and really don't buy into the 29er hype as being the be all.
    But...I will never own the 26 inch version of the Ti Fly because of the wacky geometry.

  7. #7
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    I actually like the 29er Fly Ti much more than the Turner Flux, but I only demo'd the Turner for about 2-3 hours on a fairly buff trail and I didn't get to tune it exactly to my liking--it bottomed out in odd places like small dips and whoop-d-dos which bugged me.

    I think I got spoiled by riding a Yeti 575 for a short amount of time, which is the best and most fun bike I've ridden so far. While my 29er Fly Ti does really well on XC trails, with a significant improvement on technical sections over a 26" bike in terms of being able to higher carry speed with more control, I find myself constantly pushing the bike's limits on technical section, which makes me not impressed with the Fly 29er in its current state. Even my GF Rig performed better, though not in the climbs obviously, due to being a singlespeed. The Rig changed my mind about 29ers, but that bike had EBB issues I couldn't stand and didn't suit my riding style too well either. The Yeti wasn't as fast when pedaling was involved, but allowed me to ride more sections and ride sections without a hint of braking.

    Sounds like you are looking looking to trade some squishiness for a lightweight ride that's still somewhat compliant and you think a Ti frame can deliver just that. I'm very skeptical of ti after riding it now. I think fat high volume 29er wheels give way more compliance over 26" wheels than ti gives over alu and the flexiness of ti isn't very confidence inspiring in the rough. This particular frame is stiff vertically, but the the stays flex laterally and twist too much for my liking. I do last longer and ride XC faster on the 29er HT than the Flux and I def feel the Flux's weight... I feel like I can ride the 29er Ti HT longer than the Flux for sure. On that demo day, I gave it back after 2.5 hours or so and rode another 4 hours on my Ti Fly 29er and only quit due to the sun going down and I didn't bring a headlight.

    dirtrider7, if by size, you mean fit... it's more like it doesn't fit my style. I plan on keeping it, but I'm going to get a 5+" travel bike too and just keep it for ripping past other riders on XC stuff and use the 5+" FS to play with. If I were willing to spend a crapload more money, I'd get an Ellsworth Moment (burly) or Epiphany (a bit more XC) or something along those lines (Rune/Spitfire, Mach 5, etc.). But I'm only looking for a secondary bike, so it should be something cheaper than the Ti Fly, something like a Kona Dawg, which was unfortunately discontinued this year (the Cadabra was supposedly improved enough to fill it's role, but costs 2.2k+ rather than ~1.5k).

  8. #8
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    Thanks dirtrider7 and Varaxis.

    What you boys said is what I needed to hear. The 26er is just strange with that ultra short ETT. But dang the price is so attractive. Certainly $$ does not make up for a bad fitting frame. I need to steer clear of that one.

    So Varaxis you have a Flux also? I love mine. It's like a Spot and RFX on a diet. Why do I want to sell? Just too many bikes that are fairly close to each other: 4", 5.5", 6.4" travels. I figured it'd be nice to have an ultralight HT in the stable. But this wish comes with a price tag. A wish more than a need.

    The Fly Ti 29er would be nice ride to have in the mix, but the weight is now an issue. Because the frame, wheels, tires, fork are larger the darn thing will weigh as much as my Flux, if not more. Then I also cant interchange parts and cant use any of my existing parts (except drivetrain and stuff).

    Varaxis, what does your 29er weigh? I saw a thread on another small Ti 29er and it came to 24+lbs, with I9 wheels at that. With Specialized GRIDS that I'd be using, that alone would make it close to 26lbs.
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  9. #9
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    Nope, I don't own a Flux. I demo'd the Turner at a SRAM 2x10 experience event (some footage of me riding it here in ) and swapped bikes with a riding buddy to experience the 575. He didn't like the Ti Fly 29er either, but he zoomed, riding it like he stole it. I actually wouldn't have minded a permanent swap, but I surely couldn't keep up even though I felt like I was riding relatively fast. I just figured he was that much better since he participates in races. I could keep up with him if I rode the 29er, except he'd gain on me on the descents. Basically, I consider it a pedaling machine. Its toast people on climbs and level ground and it's decent enough on descents. I suck at cornering... not used to open high speed turns on loose rutted soil, coming from tight twisty stuff in NY, any bump really throws it off.

    I don't have anyway to accurately weigh it, but I have a 15.5 with i9 (Enduro 29) wheels and it weighs 25.2 using the weigh self then weigh self holding bike method with a digital scale that measures tenths (Taylor brand). The parts are fairly burly and the pedals are boat anchors at over 500g/pr.

  10. #10
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    So, the 29er is a fun pedaler it seems as well as what I've heard from others. But shucks the weight issue. Yours is over 25lbs, which means mine would prolly weigh over 26lbs, maybe even closer to 27lbs, same weight as my Flux is now with burly tires (Captain GRIDs). And your I9 wheels I'm sure are lighter than the Hope Pro 2/Mavic 819 combo.

    If I really want a proper fitting Ti XC frame, I might have to spend a bit more and find something with a better geo. Ideally, something with a 22.5 ETT, 16" seattube, and 69-70 deg HA, (all based on a 100mm-120mm fork with ~475-480mm axle to crown length). Any such beast out there like this under $1000? I need to post this question in the frame section).

    The video wouldn't load for me. Looks like a fun trail though.
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  11. #11
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    The One On 456 Ti is the only aggressive Ti HT in a 26" wheel size that I know of that's around $1k for the frame.

    http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOTI45...e-ti-456-frame

    M/16" (406mm which has a 23" ETT--long ETT for use with short stem+wide handlebar) in stock, lucky for you. Even I'm interested in this bike.

  12. #12
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    Thanks, looks okay for the price. That ETT is too long though for me. I'm wanting not longer than 22.8 at most, and even that might be pushing it.

    However, since i really want to use a 120mm fork, that should shorten up the ETT. But then again, I'm messing with changing the total geo which could really affect the handling. The HA on this frame is really slack, it'll be almost a chopper if any more slack. Oh boy.
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  13. #13
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    That geo is based on a fully extended 120mm fork or sagged 140mm fork. 66.5d HA, 23" ETT. The size smaller (S/14") has a 21.5" ETT. You're in between sizes, so it's this or a frame from another manufacturer.

    I can say Carver and Salsa are around $1k, but have more traditional geo with 71d HA. I figured I'd recommend this to you since you seem to be more interested in an aggressive XC/trail HT rather than a XC race HT.

  14. #14
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    Thanks a bunch, Varaxis. Yes, I do like that slack HA, closer to my FS rigs. I am looking for something just as you describe, more aggro trail than traditional XC.

    I'm always between sizes. I either need to shrink or grow another inch. The Salsa Ala Carte is the closest in stock geo to what I'm after but they're $1800. I'll look into the Carver. Thanks for that suggestion.

    Habanero might be a good way to go. Custom made to my geo for about $1300
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  15. #15
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    I'd still recommend the On One. The ETT is purposely made longer for use with a short stem, which is the new trend carried over from what DHers learned, about how it increases control (at cost of wide bars which can cause tree clearance issues).

    Slack HA helps stability and control at high speed significantly. Unless you have twisty low speed techy sections, you're not gonna miss steep HA. Others report that it might be a bit slower on climbs than XC race bikes, due to extra fork travel and HA, but they also say you'll certainly make up once the trail heads back down, which is the fun part.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, I used to race DH and have always liked slightly shorter stems. I also prefer the more slack HA exactly for as you said, the high speed control, which is what I love.

    The On One's ETT is either too short or too long for me though depending on the size. For the same price ($1200) I can get a custom made-to-order Ti frame from Carver. Great suggestion you had there. I can even get a 29/26er. A very unique style using a 29er wheel up front, 26er in the rear. The best of both worlds on one frame. Now this is very very intruiging. It'll still be heavier than a regular 26 but not as much as full 29er.

    Wow, another player in the mix.
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  17. #17
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    Yea, Carver does make good bikes, but I had no idea they'd do custom Ti for $1200. Usually it's $1k for the mass produced Ti and 2x that for custom from the likes of Lynskey, Eriksen, Indy Fab, Vicious Cycles, Moots, etc.

  18. #18
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    Very COOL! I just talked to Davis Carver himself. Seems like a cool guy who knows his stuff. I'm prolly gonnna go custom through him. I get to talk with the actual builder and make it totally custom fit for myself.

    I'm gonna go 29er front, 26er rear. Ti, maybe a 68 HA, 22.5 ETT, 28.5 standover, add a headtube gusset. If I really wanted something sweet, I can add a custom headtube size to fit the new Cane Creek Angleset. Of course that's quite a bit extra.

    Sky's the limit here and at a reasonable cost. Sweetttt!!!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch
    Very COOL! I just talked to Davis Carver himself. Seems like a cool guy who knows his stuff. I'm prolly gonnna go custom through him. I get to talk with the actual builder and make it totally custom fit for myself.

    I'm gonna go 29er front, 26er rear. Ti, maybe a 68 HA, 22.5 ETT, 28.5 standover, add a headtube gusset. If I really wanted something sweet, I can add a custom headtube size to fit the new Cane Creek Angleset. Of course that's quite a bit extra.

    Sky's the limit here and at a reasonable cost. Sweetttt!!!
    Just keep in mind, if you go Carver at $1200...you are still twice the price of Moto Ti either 26 or 29er FLY...if you back out the price of just the frame - Reba Race shock.
    No matter how you slice it, custom will cost you. Is it worth it? The Carver is very reasonably priced and for an extra $600 it may well be for those that are fussy. I am fussy but the Moto Ti Fly 29er entire frameset including $400 Reba Race shock was $1175. All what you want and good to have choices.

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