Fly Ti 29er creaking - can't get rid of- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fly Ti 29er creaking - can't get rid of

    I have a 2010 Fly Ti 29er with an annoying clicking/ creaking noise with every power stroke while standing. It's loud enough that it also annoys other riders I'm with.

    Here's what I have done:

    Remove the seat post; cleaned, inspected, lubricated with synthetic Pedros bike grease and replaced.
    Lubricated seat rails where they go into saddle.
    Removed chain, chain rings, crank, axle, pedals, bottom bracket. Cleaned and lubricated all chain ring bolts, bottom bracket bearings, cup threads, through axle, pedals, pedal threads, crank threads, bottom bracket splines, bottom bracket housing, chain, chain rings. Replaced front chain ring with new (1x9).
    Replaced Egg Beater cleats with new.
    Confirmed proper torque of pedals, cranks, bottom bracket, chain ring bolts.

    After the major going over outlined above, the clicking went away for a few rides, but now is back.

    I'm not sure where the source of the noise is, nor how to fix it permanently. It is very distracting and annoying, and I've never had a bike that clicked and creaked this much.

    Crank is FSA Afterburner.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Sounds like your bottom bracket may be bad.

  3. #3
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    I was having a similar problem on my fly, which I built from frame up. After attacking the seat post, chainring bolts, and crank bearings with no success I decided to overtorque my pedals into my cranks. Instead of whatever was recommended I just tightened them as much as i could by hand with an extra long 8mm allen (I have shimano 540s) - the creak/click stopped.

  4. #4
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    I torqued all the aforementioned items on a cool day and the creaks returned. I waited for a warm day (~68F) and let the bike sit in the sun for a couple hours and after the parts had expanded, torqued them again. The bike's been quiet for about 40 trail miles now.

  5. #5
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    I don't think it's the bottom bracket because when I disassembled it, including removing all of the balls, plastic cage retainers, etc everything was in good shape, and the balls rolled smoothly in the cups. Maybe it is a torque issue. I'm riding tonight, so I'll try tightening things up now and see how it does.

    One thing I considered is that it might be a dissimilar metal thing. Titanium against aluminum (seat post, bottom bracket threads) behaves differently than aluminum on aluminum - which is my other bike that has never, ever creaked.
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  6. #6
    DynoDon
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    are you using anti-seize on the parts before torquing them, anti-seize does more then make it easier to take things apart later. good luck

  7. #7
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    Creaking Crank noise Fly 29 Ti

    I also have recently purchased the same bike and have have had a creaking noise which appeared to be from the cranks. The problem was solved by increasing the clamping force of the rear quick release skewer - although the wheel was already quite tightly clamped in. I had not touched the wheel from the time I took the bike out of the box.

  8. #8
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    I had the same issue with my Fantom29 for several months. It drove me crazy. After a good hour at my LBS, they finally figured out the problem: my bike had come spec'd with a bottom bracket with a spindle that was too long - 118mm when it should have been 113, or something. It was making it so the chainline was off and extra stress was being put on the BB. It ruined the bearings after only about 5 months, but on my cheap crankset, it was only a $25 part to replace. They put a new one in with the right sized spindle, and it is now completely silent. Feels great. Make sure you have the right BB for your crankset, check your chainline.

  9. #9
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    I didn't get out last night as planned (tubeless sealant dried up and left me flat), but to answer some questions and comments above:
    Yes, I do use the copper never seize on all parts, including at the bottom of the seat post inside the frame, bottom bracket, pedals, chain ring bolts and seat rail clamps.
    Greg, thanks for the tip. I had the wheels off for changing sealant, so made sure to solidly clamp the rear especially. It felt tight when removed, and I couldn't feel any side to side wiggle before removing.
    Intotheblue: Visually, my chainring is in line, and the bottom bracket cups are up tight to the BB shell. I have the FSA Mega exo through hole bottom bracket. It is sized for the crank spindle - which goes all the way through and the other side crank arm tightens onto it. I think what you describe applies to bottom brackets with spindles that the cranks slide onto.

    I'll try it with what I've checked so far and then I'm getting to the point where I'm going to start throwing money at it by replacing parts to eliminate them as possibilities. I hate doing that, but there's not many rocks that haven't already been overturned. The bottom bracket will be first.
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  10. #10
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    I had a similar problem on my road bike, clicking/creaking when I was out of the saddle. Eventually solved it by increasing the skewer clamping force on the front wheel.

  11. #11
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    I had a similar issue here with my '11 Fly 29 Ti XO 20spd. I had a creak that would usually sound when I on the part of the downward pedaling force on the left crank. Changing pedals (XT to Sunline V-1 platform) didn't fix the issue. The stock FSA BB and crankset checked out fine, but I upgraded to XX crankset and BB anyways. It didn't happen regularly with the FSA setup; it was there on some rides but never there on others and wasn't loud enough to be annoying to others. It did happen on with the XX for one ride. I use marine grease where applicable. Thinking back, it hasn't happened again for several weeks.

    The skewer clamping force does sound like it may have been the solution. The Fly 29 Team's rear is really flexy and if you don't really clamp down. The QR can get loose due to the flex, same with the flexy front. I switched to beefier skewers, a standard Shimano rear and Bonty front. I haven't had the issue ever again. I do tend to really clamp down the QRs seemingly excessively tight due to my experience with the QRs coming loose. I did upgrade to an i9 Enduro 29 wheelset too, to help with the ride handling issues the flex was causing.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the suggestions, and more props for the skewer solution. I applied lubricant to the cam on each skewer to get more clamping force and tightened them both much tighter than they were. This definitely got rid of 80 to 90% of the creaking, but I still heard it a time or two.
    I have Stans flow rims with ZTR hubs/ skewers. I wonder what my options are for larger quick release skewers?
    Marine grease also sounds like a better option than thin synthetic grease which I've been using. I also noticed when I removed my cassette that there were some wear marks on the drive side of the hub splines where the cassette had worn through the anodized finish. I've never seen this on any other hub.
    Since tightening the QR definitely made a difference, but I felt like I was on the brink of over-tightening them, my first move will be to get beefier ones.
    I also agree with you on the flexiness of the frame. When I first got it, and posted a review of it I gave it good marks for being a laterally stiff frame. Now that I've had it a while, I notice the flex much more than before, and I would say that it has a fair amount of it. The flex was definitely more apparent before I clamped down tighter on the QR, but it is far from a stiff frame.
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  13. #13
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    You don't really need to lube the QRs skewers/cams. You should actually avoid it. The lube gets worked out and then runs down onto your rotors and contaminates your brake pads.

    I feel happier when my QRs feel well tightened. I'm confident that my hubs take the sideload fine due to how the cups are built, they have a set screw that helps set exact tightness to counter drag from sideload. I have mine so tight that I sometimes have to spread the dropout tabs to get the wheel back in. It's not so tight that I need to brace the bike against the force needed to pull it open though, just 1 thumb on the lever's pivot point and 2 fingers to open it with moderate force. I was tempted to get the DT RWS skewers, but they're relatively expensive. I do have a set of Ti skewers that are now just sitting pretty since they are too flimsy.

    Both my Vuelta and new hubs have those notches caused by the cassette on the freehub body. They slightly affect engagement quickness and may cause clunking sounds when you start pedaling after ratcheting back (but most of the clunk is the hub itself). I have the SRAM PC-1070, which only has the largest 6 or so cogs on a spider. American Classic hubs have a steel insert that prevents that and it's only a matter of time before others follow suit, but it's not really a big deal.

    The frame is stiff in regards to the main triangle, stiffer than my prior 2 alu bikes (Cannondale I rode was much stiffer), but the stays are just wimpy. It doesn't perform as well as my GF 29er with the same geo, but it pedals a lot better, likely due to the downtube. I mainly got this due to its value, but I should've just waited to get a GF Rumblefish due to how I ride. My GF Rig (mostly stock) cornered and descended so much better. Anything technical, it just handled better, actually. This one, I just was never really happy with and kept on upgrading the components, giving the frame the benefit of a doubt. I just have higher expectations after riding other bikes, I guess. Only reason I retired my old Homegrown was that I didn't think the V-brakes stopped me well enough for how fast I wanted to go; GF Rig simply because I wanted gears again.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 01-29-2011 at 11:16 PM.

  14. #14
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    Craig,
    My bike is dead quiet. I build my Ti Fly 29er frameset up with Shimano SLX external BB crankset. Before you do anything...since you identified the clicking when standing...remove the seat from the bike. It likely isn't the culprit but take it out of the equation. Anti seize is your friend with BB installation as discussed. You could have a lateral lash issue with your BB...everything is good but too much lateral play. You may end up changing the BB or crank at the end of the day. Make sure it isn't a chain or chainring issue as it seems pedaling related....Try different mashing out the saddle in different rings in front.
    It is probably your bb but have to say, chasing ticks can be hard to root cause but no doubt you will resolve it. I am not sure the cranks and or BB that comes on the stock full bike is that good. For insight, read some reviews of your crank and BB combo and you may discover some have had click issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    It doesn't perform as well as my GF 29er with the same geo, but it pedals a lot better, likely due to the downtube.
    Can you explain what you wrote?

  16. #16
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    I had the exact same problem. I have a Fly Ti 29er frame with Stans Crest wheels. I could never get the skewers tight enough to stop the creaking. I ended up replacing the rear skewer with a Mavic skewer and the creaking has disappearing. Stans wheels are great but their skewers are horrible. Of course I lubed everything else on my bike before finding out that it was the skewers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider7
    Can you explain what you wrote?
    You probably read it a bunch of times, but now that I have a Superfly 100 (not a Rumblefish because I got a good deal that I couldn't pass up), it's clear again.

    Ti just has a lively pedal feel, I guess. It's the best attribute that stands out about this frame. It just feels fast when you pedal it. It's a smoother feel than the scooting you get with a super stiff Cannondale frame. You feel the frame rather than feel the drive train "grinding" and tires buzzing. When you see the reviews on the Superfly 100, they say it also feels like it accelerates well, but this Ti frame just feels so much better. I definitely do feel the difference in "dead" feel in carbon and "lively" feel in Ti. I feel it just wants to go until my legs and chest feel the burn. The carbon doesn't really give any feeling--it just seems neutral, but stiff.

    Compare Moto Fly geo to the old Superfly (hardtail) and they're identical practically. The main difference is frame material, tube shaping/wall thickness/manipulation, fork offset, and now BB and headtube. I can't compare those, but I had a Rig with the same geo, just a singlespeed. It cornered better, descended better, was more stable, but steer quicker. I rode through technical section as a noob better on the Rig than I ever did on the Fly and the Fly had the advantage of having 20mm of extra travel up front.

    http://fisherbikes.com/bike/model/superfly
    http://www.motobecane.com/29/ft29ti.html#geo

    It's hard to explain. The Moto just feels better when you sprint and hammer. I especially notice it after riding another bike for a while and take the Moto out for a short trip on the road. It's different from a hardtail/FS thing, as I have alu HT and FS bikes to compare as well. I think it's the Ti--it's not compliant or anything, it just has an unique pedal feedback sensation and I guess it does take the buzz/vibrations out well. I guess the roadies aren't the only ones to notice these things, but for bumps it doesn't seem to do much.

    The SF100 just does everything better on the trail. The rear suspension definitely helps and more than makes up for the feeling for traction, stability, and boosting my limited handling skills. It's not fair to compare it to the Moto, due to the difference in price, but they're both high end XC machines.

    It took me a few bikes to realize that I'm now a fan of GF's 29ers. He has the feel of them really dialed. I was going to go back to a 26er FS, likely a Yeti 575, to compliment my 29er Ti HT, but this SF100 managed filled both roles. The only thing I miss is being able to launch off bumps to get air. The 29er wheels and suspension just wants to roll over them. I have much more respect for the "big production" bike companies now (GF/Trek, Spec, Giant). They really know how to make a bike for a fair price. The Moto is likely going to be parted out.

  18. #18
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    The creaking noise increased exponentially on my last ride.

    I removed my cranks and bottom bracket today after printing out Mega-exos bottom bracket installation instructions. The first thing I noticed was that the 2 o-rings that are supposed to go between the crank arms and bottom bracket were missing. No problem, I picked up a couple of new ones at the auto parts store. The next thing I noticed was that - unlike the last time I removed the BB a month ago - the bottom bracket bearings spun a little roughly, like there was sand in the bearings.

    Down to Performance. They didn't have a Mega-Exo bottom bracket. The nature of the creaking makes it clear that it is not bottom bracket bearings causing it anyhow. A re-lube and re-install will get me through the next few rides until a new one arrives.

    Next to the auto parts store to pick up the proper Loctite bearing retainer compound as called out in the FSA instructions. This compound goes on the splines of the through shaft where the left crank arm bolts on - presumeably to fill any voids and keep the crank arm from moving on the splines. Also picked up some marine grease to replace the never seize - which based on the wear marks on the bottom bracket cups and spacers - was not preventing metal to metal rubbing.

    After cleaning everything in the solvent tank, installing the o-rings, marine greasing the spacers, cups, through shaft and pedal threads, loctite retainer compound on the splines, loctite thread locker (also FSA recommended) on the crank arm clamp bolts and lubricating the solvent cleaned chain and pedal springs, I took it out for a ride.

    Though the creaking was noteably better, it is not gone.

    I run 1x9 by the way, so one ring up front. Next step is to remove the seatpost and see if I can apply some marine grease down inside the seat tube to isolate the post from frame, remove, clean and lubricate the headset and replace the Stans QRs with something more beefy.

    I have to be getting close.

    Thanks for the ideas.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    You probably read it a bunch of times, but now that I have a Superfly 100 (not a Rumblefish because I got a good deal that I couldn't pass up), it's clear again.

    Ti just has a lively pedal feel, I guess. It's the best attribute that stands out about this frame. It just feels fast when you pedal it. It's a smoother feel than the scooting you get with a super stiff Cannondale frame. You feel the frame rather than feel the drive train "grinding" and tires buzzing. When you see the reviews on the Superfly 100, they say it also feels like it accelerates well, but this Ti frame just feels so much better. I definitely do feel the difference in "dead" feel in carbon and "lively" feel in Ti. I feel it just wants to go until my legs and chest feel the burn. The carbon doesn't really give any feeling--it just seems neutral, but stiff.

    Compare Moto Fly geo to the old Superfly (hardtail) and they're identical practically. The main difference is frame material, tube shaping/wall thickness/manipulation, fork offset, and now BB and headtube. I can't compare those, but I had a Rig with the same geo, just a singlespeed. It cornered better, descended better, was more stable, but steer quicker. I rode through technical section as a noob better on the Rig than I ever did on the Fly and the Fly had the advantage of having 20mm of extra travel up front.

    http://fisherbikes.com/bike/model/superfly
    http://www.motobecane.com/29/ft29ti.html#geo

    It's hard to explain. The Moto just feels better when you sprint and hammer. I especially notice it after riding another bike for a while and take the Moto out for a short trip on the road. It's different from a hardtail/FS thing, as I have alu HT and FS bikes to compare as well. I think it's the Ti--it's not compliant or anything, it just has an unique pedal feedback sensation and I guess it does take the buzz/vibrations out well. I guess the roadies aren't the only ones to notice these things, but for bumps it doesn't seem to do much.

    The SF100 just does everything better on the trail. The rear suspension definitely helps and more than makes up for the feeling for traction, stability, and boosting my limited handling skills. It's not fair to compare it to the Moto, due to the difference in price, but they're both high end XC machines.

    It took me a few bikes to realize that I'm now a fan of GF's 29ers. He has the feel of them really dialed. I was going to go back to a 26er FS, likely a Yeti 575, to compliment my 29er Ti HT, but this SF100 managed filled both roles. The only thing I miss is being able to launch off bumps to get air. The 29er wheels and suspension just wants to roll over them. I have much more respect for the "big production" bike companies now (GF/Trek, Spec, Giant). They really know how to make a bike for a fair price. The Moto is likely going to be parted out.
    Very thoughtful words and appreciate you sharing your perspective which clearly has weight because you have owned and tested many bikes.
    Now that you have tasted the elite fruit aka Superfly 100, no doubt the more humbler TI Fly hardtail does not measure up. I wonder about the regular Superfly CF hardtail...have you ridden one? I don't ride the real technical stuff. In someways the noodley rear stays as you put is offer a very subtle ride. I wonder at the end of the day if the softness aka elastic quality of the rear stays on a Ti Fly can be related to a rear pivot suspension bike like a Superfly 100...or if there is some inherent lateral stifness benefit of the rear pivot rear end of the Superfly 100...it won't torque laterally but will only displace vertically. In any event if not having tested a uber nice bike like the Superfly 100, the Ti Fly feels pretty good if one prefers a compliant bike. I can keep up with my friends on this bike and really don't feel a power transfer disavantage...though perhaps I am losing a few watts of transfer.
    Cheers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    The creaking noise increased exponentially on my last ride.

    I removed my cranks and bottom bracket today after printing out Mega-exos bottom bracket installation instructions. The first thing I noticed was that the 2 o-rings that are supposed to go between the crank arms and bottom bracket were missing. No problem, I picked up a couple of new ones at the auto parts store. The next thing I noticed was that - unlike the last time I removed the BB a month ago - the bottom bracket bearings spun a little roughly, like there was sand in the bearings.

    Down to Performance. They didn't have a Mega-Exo bottom bracket. The nature of the creaking makes it clear that it is not bottom bracket bearings causing it anyhow. A re-lube and re-install will get me through the next few rides until a new one arrives.

    Next to the auto parts store to pick up the proper Loctite bearing retainer compound as called out in the FSA instructions. This compound goes on the splines of the through shaft where the left crank arm bolts on - presumeably to fill any voids and keep the crank arm from moving on the splines. Also picked up some marine grease to replace the never seize - which based on the wear marks on the bottom bracket cups and spacers - was not preventing metal to metal rubbing.

    After cleaning everything in the solvent tank, installing the o-rings, marine greasing the spacers, cups, through shaft and pedal threads, loctite retainer compound on the splines, loctite thread locker (also FSA recommended) on the crank arm clamp bolts and lubricating the solvent cleaned chain and pedal springs, I took it out for a ride.

    Though the creaking was noteably better, it is not gone.

    I run 1x9 by the way, so one ring up front. Next step is to remove the seatpost and see if I can apply some marine grease down inside the seat tube to isolate the post from frame, remove, clean and lubricate the headset and replace the Stans QRs with something more beefy.

    I have to be getting close.

    Thanks for the ideas.
    You are a very thorough man and only a matter of time before you fix it completely.
    It likely isn't the frame but an interaction.
    I will share a tip with you on your seatpost. Don't use grease. Use hairspray...yes hairspray...insert the post with it still wet once sprayed. I have had to do this on many different bikes including the Ti Fly. Hairspray takes up the micro voids which cause squeaking and literally separate the post from the ID of the seat tube. Hairspray when it sets also has a high coef. of static friction but still easy to get it apart. Last tip pertains to the seat clamp itself...and can even relate to the surface finish of the post. I run a Hope clamp and Thomson post which is lightly abraided with 600# wet sandpaper at the union with the seat tube. Mine used to creak and now dead quiet. Btw creaking can even be the seat post interface the saddle rails...you can generally test this off the bike by rocking the saddle with your hands. I am a big fan of 2 bolt clamps for seat posts like the Thompson.
    Good luck Craig...you'll get 'er.

  21. #21
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    Considering how short the stays are and how steep the seatstays are, there's little vertical compliance to be found regardless of the material used, the way I see it. I rode it like a hardtail, never expecting compliance, instead using my legs, so I can't argue if someone says that they sense comfort that can be directly attributed the the frame and the material it's made from.

    Hmm, I dunno about hairspray on the seatpost, but if it works for you... I'd be worried if he has an alu post [in a Ti frame] and doesn't put a thin coat of grease or anti-seize on it, due to galvanic corrosion and how alu+ti is one of the more vulnerable combinations and would be bad for the alu post.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis
    Considering how short the stays are and how steep the seatstays are, there's little vertical compliance to be found regardless of the material used, the way I see it. I rode it like a hardtail, never expecting compliance, instead using my legs, so I can't argue if someone says that they sense comfort that can be directly attributed the the frame and the material it's made from.

    Hmm, I dunno about hairspray on the seatpost, but if it works for you... I'd be worried if he has an alu post [in a Ti frame] and doesn't put a thin coat of grease or anti-seize on it, due to galvanic corrosion and how alu+ti is one of the more vulnerable combinations and would be bad for the alu post.
    Yup...works for me. Never experienced any galvanic corrosion with Ti, CF, Al seatpost + hairspray. Galvanic corrosion is due to contacting surfaces. Hairspray like grease or anti seize mitigates corrosion because it separates the surfaces...except that hairspray will keep your post from slipping and grease and/or antiseize contributes to too high a clamping force to hold the seat in place.
    If looking for an alternative, carbon paste is much more effective than grease or antiseize because of its quality of holding the post in place.

  23. #23
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    Same thing with my Trek Marlin.

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    I found a solution which is to apply a small amount of Loctite 641 bearing retainer compound to the seatpost clamping area before putting the seatpost into the frame. It was easy to see where the clamp squeezed the post by the worn off anodizing and slight compression of the aluminum there. Also easy to understand how any lubricant/ grease I applied there was completely squeezed out by the clamp, rendering it useless for the purpose of separating the metals. The bearing compound not only fills the micro-void but acts as an adhesive, preventing the seat post from moving at all. Hairspray probably would have worked too, but I was so sick of the creaking that I went straight for an industrial solution - and I didn't have any hairspray on hand. The bond should break easily when I loosen the clamp and the Ti spreads open, but I've not tried that yet.

    I've been enjoying the last 5 rides in blissful silence, which is the first time that that has ever happened on this bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc_math View Post
    I torqued all the aforementioned items on a cool day and the creaks returned. I waited for a warm day (~68F) and let the bike sit in the sun for a couple hours and after the parts had expanded, torqued them again. The bike's been quiet for about 40 trail miles now.
    Torquing on a hot vs cold frame! I knew this mattered in automobiles, but never translated it to matter on my bike.

    This is valuable information.

    Thank you for it!!!!

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    +1 about tightening the rear wheel. My bike started to creak like crazy lately and the usual suspects (seatpost + crank) were serviced recently. Then I read this thread and noticed that i could secure rear wheel a bit better. Bam! 99% of creaking is gone!

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    Its interesting to me that people are talking about fisher superfly 29ers in this thread, reading the reviews about the creaking/squeaking/cracking/breaking of those carbon frames is what led me to think about getting a titanium frame (I'm still on the fence about whether to get this bike).

    Has anyone with a carbon or titanium seatpost had any issues with creaking? Just wondering if that would prevent the problem rather than having to troubleshoot things...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Its interesting to me that people are talking about fisher superfly 29ers in this thread, reading the reviews about the creaking/squeaking/cracking/breaking of those carbon frames is what led me to think about getting a titanium frame (I'm still on the fence about whether to get this bike).

    Has anyone with a carbon or titanium seatpost had any issues with creaking? Just wondering if that would prevent the problem rather than having to troubleshoot things...


    Grease or carbon assembly paste can help quiet creaking seat posts.

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    It wasn't my seat post that was creaking, or my rear wheel being too loose. I have still not 100% eliminated the noises, but lubricating where each of my rear wheel spokes cross each other on the advice of a fellow rider silenced the beast for about half a ride a few weeks ago. The creaking is back now, and it is definitely happening on the power stroke when climbing, but at different places in the rotation - for instance, not always when the left crank is at 9:00 .

    Next step is tighten all spokes and put a small shim of plastic between where each one crosses, or maybe one of those coffee stir-stick straws slit lengthwise and cut to 1/4" long slipped around the spoke where they cross.
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  30. #30
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    you could wire/solder the spoke crosses once you get the tension set

  31. #31
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    Have u checked the headtube bearing cups?...i got a cannondale that does the same thing and found the side to side sway while climbing out of the saddle make them creak.

  32. #32
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    I was going to post about this when my Fly Pro started the creaking a week ago. The spokes are the problem on my Vuelta XRPs too. I also lubricated where each of my front wheel spokes cross each other. That made the bike silent. Problem solved until....
    It kind of came back but at least I know for sure it's the spokes rubbing. I used thick grease used for rubber seals on pool pumps found at Home Depot. If that straw thingamajig works post back. Mine is not enough to get on my nerves and now that I found it,
    I am sort of at peace with it for now because at least I know where the noise is from.
    Last edited by Surfacecreations; 10-11-2011 at 11:35 PM.

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