Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!

    So I received my eagerly awaited Fly Team frame kit today and was sadly disappointed. The bottom bracket shell facing is not even close to square on the non-drive side, and the drive side isn't great either. Is this what I should expect when buying a Motobecane Frame? This was extremely disappointing as I have spent $1,300 on parts to build this bike. Please tell me that I have not wasted my time in turning to Motobecane. Was the deal just too good to be true and that this is the kind of quality I can expect. I know the price is amazing but a bottom bracket that isn't square will just destroy external bearings in rapid form. I am attaching a picture to show what I could see with my naked eye, that's how bad the bottom bracket shell is.
    Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-frame.jpg

  2. #2
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    Their standard response would be that all bottom bracket shells are not machined by the manufacturer and need faced by the bikeshop to ensure proper installation of the bottom bracket bearings. BLA BLA BLA. I didn't face my gravity frame with an external bearing deore crank, but it's deore. A little bit of slop in deore won't really mess it up. XT on the other hand, I'd get it faced.

    Unfortunately, I doubt BD will do much to compensate unless the shell and threads are machined incorrectly. If you can find any reference to a maximum length of bottom bracket shell that can be machined off a titanium bike before the threads are affected, you might be able to use that. I don't know what can and cannot be done with titanium as far as facing and threading a bottom bracket shell. I know it's tough stuff to machine, and that might be a problem when trying to face it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Their standard response would be that all bottom bracket shells are not machined by the manufacturer and need faced by the bikeshop to ensure proper installation of the bottom bracket bearings. BLA BLA BLA. I didn't face my gravity frame with an external bearing deore crank, but it's deore. A little bit of slop in deore won't really mess it up. XT on the other hand, I'd get it faced.

    Unfortunately, I doubt BD will do much to compensate unless the shell and threads are machined incorrectly. If you can find any reference to a maximum length of bottom bracket shell that can be machined off a titanium bike before the threads are affected, you might be able to use that. I don't know what can and cannot be done with titanium as far as facing and threading a bottom bracket shell. I know it's tough stuff to machine, and that might be a problem when trying to face it.
    So to add to the issue, I tried to thread the non-drive BB bearing cup and it went about a third of the way and came to a halt. I can't turn it at all with my hands. This should not be the case, those bearing cups should thread all the way to the face by hand and then get tightened to the torque spec. My $127 11 year old Litech Magnesium frame had no issue at all when I upgraded it to an XT HollowTech II crank about a month ago. I was able to thread the cups right in then torque them. Furthermore this bottom bracket shell is easily the worst looking one I have ever seen. The facing is not even close to the same thickness all the way around. Also looks like the threads start right at the edge of the shell, instead of slightly recessed. I will take more pictures and post them. I have never seen a bottom bracket that looks this bad. Even my 2004 Motobecane 700HT Aluminum frame looks way better than this one. Lastly I still havn't gotten a response from my e-mail to Bikes Direct. Interesting how they answered all my questions with 12 hours before I bought the bike and now it's been 20+ hours and no response. I'm not too worried yet but I'm going to be peeved if I don't here from them by tomorrow afternoon. I guess we will see how well they stand behind their 100% satisfaction guarantee.

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    So here are the more detailed photos with my better camera. The first 4 are of the non-drive side which is complete garbage. The 2 after that are the drive side which is somewhat okay, could probably be good enough with facing. In my opinion there is no hope for the non-drive side. You can clearly see the difference in thickness and how it seems the shell slopes into the inner housing. To me this is completely unacceptable, even on a bargain bike like Motobecane. If you want to be taken seriously as a quality option when comparing to other bike companies, then this can't be the product you turn out. Especially the bottom bracket which is an integral part of the bike.
    Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03924.jpgFly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03925.jpgFly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03926.jpgFly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03927.jpgFly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03928.jpgFly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dsc03929.jpg

  5. #5
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    yea, that's pretty messed up. Looks like a bad machine job on the BB shell. Let BD know and send in pictures. They should take care of it. Possibly a new frame, possibly have you bring it to an LBS to see if they can face it and put in new threads. The second is questionable. Heard that titanium frames can chew up bottom bracket tools.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    yea, that's pretty messed up. Looks like a bad machine job on the BB shell. Let BD know and send in pictures. They should take care of it. Possibly a new frame, possibly have you bring it to an LBS to see if they can face it and put in new threads. The second is questionable. Heard that titanium frames can chew up bottom bracket tools.
    Whew, so I'm not crazy. I see a lot of folks on here sticking up for BD and from what I can tell they stand behind their products. So I have faith they will come through on this one. I thought exactly the same thing, bad machine job. Unfortunately, quality control allowed this one to go out the door. Hopefully the next one will be much better. I will post back when I find out what will be done.

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    I have several BD frames and the shells have been good. But bad machining can occur on any brand. As for the shell facing you can just get than faced at a LBS. But with the threads not allowing the BB to be hand tightened, I agree I would request a replacement.

    I have several BD bikes but they are a discount bike company, soooooo....
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    I have several BD frames and the shells have been good. But bad machining can occur on any brand. As for the shell facing you can just get than faced at a LBS. But with the threads not allowing the BB to be hand tightened, I agree I would request a replacement.

    I have several BD bikes but they are a discount bike company, soooooo....
    There is no way I would have this shell faced. The dip alone in the shell would require too much material to be taken off to get it square. On top of that the threads start right at the edge and it would mess those up. Lastly the edge of the shell slopes in severely and I'm not sure there would be much edge left after facing it.

    Of course Bikes Direct offered to pay for having it faced, even after I sent them all the pictures seen here. I can't even understand that to be honest. How about saying, yup that is a terrible machine job, we would be glad to exchange that for you. So I'm thinking this might be the quality I can expect. I will send this one back and get one more but if it's a dumpster fire like this one, that will be it for me and Motobecane. I will be onboard will all those that I argue with that say they are garbage and you get what you pay for. My 2004 Motobecane 700HT is of much higher quality than this frame, other than the fact it's aluminum. The Fly Team is beautiful other than the bottom bracket. I was totally bummed after inspecting the beautiful welds to see that the BB was a wreck. We will see what BD has to say about my response to them wanting me to have it faced. Of course I declined that offer and said I wanted another frame.

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    Please update this if there are any further developments. Very curious to see how it turns out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstandfest View Post
    Please update this if there are any further developments. Very curious to see how it turns out.
    So far it's been nearly 2 days since I replied to their response and they haven't gotten back to me yet. I know it's the weekend but they certainly seem less responsive when there are issues rather then questions about purchasing. I asked a few questions before buying and received responses in less than 24 hours. Both emails about my problem have taken 2 days or more. So that's the latest as of right now.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    I asked a few questions before buying and received responses in less than 24 hours. Both emails about my problem have taken 2 days or more.
    Sounds about right. Most pre-sale e-mails have basic question & answer stuff that's easy. Problems take a bit more to figure out, especially when it comes to "do we send an expensive replacement frame" or "do we pay for an expensive frame to get fixed". I wouldn't be surprised if there's e-mails between BD and the manufacturer about it too.

    If the shell started out at 73mm, I wouldn't be afraid to get it faced down to 70mm wide. Only requires a spacer like a 68mm shell would need. It would definitely need all the threads re-done though, and I just don't think any LBS will want to deal with that. Titanium tears up tools and time, and its not worth it from the LBS perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Sounds about right. Most pre-sale e-mails have basic question & answer stuff that's easy. Problems take a bit more to figure out, especially when it comes to "do we send an expensive replacement frame" or "do we pay for an expensive frame to get fixed". I wouldn't be surprised if there's e-mails between BD and the manufacturer about it too.

    If the shell started out at 73mm, I wouldn't be afraid to get it faced down to 70mm wide. Only requires a spacer like a 68mm shell would need. It would definitely need all the threads re-done though, and I just don't think any LBS will want to deal with that. Titanium tears up tools and time, and its not worth it from the LBS perspective.
    They e-mailed me back this morning and have agreed to take the frame back. I guess I am just a little impatient when it comes to these things, as I am excited to get this bike built. I thought about what you have said and I am certain my LBS wouldn't feel comfortable taking off that much. Plus having to redo all the threads. I don't think they would risk it, and as you said, Titanium is no joke. Taking off 3 mm or more would be a serious task. If the face of the BB was of even metal thickness, I might have considered it, as long as BD would guarantee that if the frame was unusable after the work, I wouldn't be held responsible.


    With the metal on the one side being so thin and the slope of the metal going into the BB, I don't think it would be wise to chance it. This frame would probably be fine for someone who plans to use a old square taper BB, but not for external bearings such as the XT M8000 crank that I am going to install. The parts that I have purchased for this build deserve a nice frame to be installed upon. I hope the next one is good to go. If not, I guess I will have to give up on Motobecane. I have already contacted Dean about one of their Asian built frames, which they have on sale right now for $900. They promised me that the quality control on those frames is outstanding, so I will turn to them if Motobecane and Bikes Direct falls through. It will cost me about $400 more but knowing the frame will be solid will be worth it. Let's just hope I don't have to go there.


    I'll post back with pictures when the new frame arrives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    This frame would probably be fine for someone who plans to use a old square taper BB,
    Titanium frame, square taper bottom bracket. high end/low end build mix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Titanium frame, square taper bottom bracket. high end/low end build mix.
    Yeah that's about right, but that is not what I'm going for. I have a full M8000 suite of components ready to go. All the stuff I have bought goes with this bike. If I had to go with Dean or Lynsky, I would have to get a new hub for the rear. Don't believe the XT M756 is comfortable to 12mm x 142mm.

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    So here is the latest update. BD contacted me and said they inspected the remaining 19" frame they could send me and it is machined in the same fashion. So I am going to get a full refund. This is extremely disappointing and has me really doubting Motobecane's quality at this point. If their top of the line Titanium Frames come with that type of machine work, then that is a complete breakdown of quality control. For BD to even market those frames to customers is unacceptable. Makes me wonder what their complete bikes look like and what might be hidden by the installed parts. So at this point I can't in my right mind give Motobecane a positive endorsement of any type. For those that have received frames that are in good shape, I guess you're the lucky ones. I am totally bummed with this outcome and now have $1,300 worth of parts just sitting around. I guess I will learn from this and not order stuff until the frame has arrived and is inspected to be okay. I might have to look elsewhere to build what I have. I really wanted to go Titanium, hopefully I still can without braking the bank too much. Motobecane was supposed to solve this for me but it just wasn't to be I guess.

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    That definitely sucks. If I were BD, I'd have a few words with the manufacturer. A whole group of titanium frames with bad machining? that's not right.

    If you're interested in CF, I noticed Nashbar is doing 25% off. Puts their 29er carbon frame under $500. Kind of a stupid BB configuration though. I'd end up using a PF to threaded adapter anyway. I just don't like the press fit as much.
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    There is another inexpensive Titanium option:

    Titus Ti Fireline Evo 29er Frame | Planet X

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    Quote Originally Posted by tk1971 View Post
    There is another inexpensive Titanium option:

    Titus Ti Fireline Evo 29er Frame | Planet X
    Looks like a nice frame but it's head tube is a bit slack for my liking. I'm strictly a XC person, and this frame is more for AM use. I might just go all out and take a look at Litespeed. At least then I know I will get a quality product, albeit at a quality price tag. Sucks I will have to buy a new rear hub since the XT M756 hub isn't upgradable to 12x142. Plus I will have to spend a little to get one of those Praxis Works PF30 to BSA bottom bracket conversion kits. Lastly I will have to buy a fork too, so it will cost me an extra $1,500 compared to Motobecane. Wasn't hoping to go there but it appears you get what you pay for with Bikes Direct. If they actually stocked more stuff, I'm sure they could try to find a frame that would work for me. One of the things I dislike about them most is that they don't stock enough stuff. Who knows when they will get more frame sets that might be acceptable. I e-mailed them today to ask about that, so hopefully I will here back by tomorrow. If they know they will get some within the next month, I might consider holding out in hopes they will be of a better quality.

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    Might not be what you're looking for, but did you know about bikeisland? It's basically BD's scratch and dent stuff, or loose parts, including frames. The windsor CF frame with Reba fork for $600 (don't know what the front hub is). Coincidentally, they also have the titanium frames, and it might be worth a shot talking to them. I think they're run from separate shops, so the inventory on bikeisland sight might be different than the BD frameset with fork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Might not be what you're looking for, but did you know about bikeisland? It's basically BD's scratch and dent stuff, or loose parts, including frames. The windsor CF frame with Reba fork for $600 (don't know what the front hub is). Coincidentally, they also have the titanium frames, and it might be worth a shot talking to them. I think they're run from separate shops, so the inventory on bikeisland sight might be different than the BD frameset with fork.
    BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping
    Yeah, I have been to their site. I don't think they have anything in the size or setup I'm looking for. Plus I don't want something blemished, I pretty much had that in this frame that I received. It should be sent to Bikes Island as far as I'm concerned. That type of machine work has no place in the bike business, even on a price conscience option such as Motobecane. What's worse is in all the e-mail exchanges I have had with them, they have never come right out and said that the machine work was faulty and they would look into it. To me this shows a lack of concern in quality control. If it were my company, I would be apologizing profusely and letting the customer know I was looking into why these frame sets had such poor machining. I get the feeling they think what they sent me is acceptable and workable. I have to believe I'm not crazy and the pictures I posted speak volumes. I simply have never seen a bottom bracket machine job this terrible in my entire riding life. If others have received frame sets that look similar to mine, I would be interested in hearing about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    Yeah, I have been to their site. I don't think they have anything in the size or setup I'm looking for. Plus I don't want something blemished, I pretty much had that in this frame that I received. It should be sent to Bikes Island as far as I'm concerned. That type of machine work has no place in the bike business, even on a price conscience option such as Motobecane. What's worse is in all the e-mail exchanges I have had with them, they have never come right out and said that the machine work was faulty and they would look into it. To me this shows a lack of concern in quality control. If it were my company, I would be apologizing profusely and letting the customer know I was looking into why these frame sets had such poor machining. I get the feeling they think what they sent me is acceptable and workable. I have to believe I'm not crazy and the pictures I posted speak volumes. I simply have never seen a bottom bracket machine job this terrible in my entire riding life. If others have received frame sets that look similar to mine, I would be interested in hearing about them.
    I got the motobecane frame and fork and was happy with it but also looked at Carver at the time. Have you considered them? I've heard decent things about them and I also got a Carver titanium handlebar for my Motobecane build and was very happy with their titanium bar. May want to give them a look to, downside is I think their frame comes with only one water bottle attachment.

    Frames Archive - Carver Bikes

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    Wow, this thread has me seriously questioning my Hal6 pre-order that Ive been so anxiously awaiting! How many of these bikes that BD puts out have issues like this that people with already built bikes just dont know about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cc in Hawaii View Post
    Wow, this thread has me seriously questioning my Hal6 pre-order that Ive been so anxiously awaiting! How many of these bikes that BD puts out have issues like this that people with already built bikes just dont know about?
    +1 I was also looking into a Fantom HT (made a thread about it ). Now I'm also doubting BD's quality on built bikes... I wouldn't want to remove the BB to find this same issue too!

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    I can assure you not all frames have this issue. I have a Boris and the BB shell is fine. I have switched the BB with no issues. My son's old Dawes from Bikes Direct was fine too amd I switched the BB and crank on that. Probably a production run issue with the Titanium frames.
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  25. #25
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    Alloy bikes can easily have their BB shells face machined and re-threaded. The OP's frame was titanium, which is not something you want to machine without the proper tools. Bike shops can fix a messed up alloy frame, and if it's like that new, it's on BD (IMO).

    And bobaX, you created some old threads a couple years ago about a moto you had bought, so you've already got experience with a BD bike. Was that BB messed up, or did you not have a need to take it apart?
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Alloy bikes can easily have their BB shells face machined and re-threaded. The OP's frame was titanium, which is not something you want to machine without the proper tools. Bike shops can fix a messed up alloy frame, and if it's like that new, it's on BD (IMO).

    And bobaX, you created some old threads a couple years ago about a moto you had bought, so you've already got experience with a BD bike. Was that BB messed up, or did you not have a need to take it apart?
    So when I get my hal6 should I be removing parts to check the bottom bracket? Is this something that would normally be done by a bike shop if you hire them to assemble and set up a bike? I would be pretty bummed to find a poorly machined frame that causes things to wear out prematurely, especially since I'm dropping $2k on this thing! In addition, since I live in Hawaii shipping the frame back would be no cheap thing! Bd only charges $150 to ship it here but I would expect return shipping to be $300 or more.. BD Should send robn30 a new, perfectly machined Ti frame. They are blowing their rep right now big time!

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    You wouldn't ship it back. Local LBS can fix it. With the right tool, doesn't take long. The need to face the BB is dependent on the BB condition. My bike originally came with square taper BB, but when I swapped up to some external bearings, I didn't face it. I could have, and probably should have, but I didn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    You wouldn't ship it back. Local LBS can fix it. With the right tool, doesn't take long. The need to face the BB is dependent on the BB condition. My bike originally came with square taper BB, but when I swapped up to some external bearings, I didn't face it. I could have, and probably should have, but I didn't.
    I have a Hal5 on order, thanks for the info, I'm going to give mine a thorough look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    You wouldn't ship it back. Local LBS can fix it. With the right tool, doesn't take long. The need to face the BB is dependent on the BB condition. My bike originally came with square taper BB, but when I swapped up to some external bearings, I didn't face it. I could have, and probably should have, but I didn't.
    Watts, you're obviously a really experienced bike guy, and have been on these forums for a few years. Should I be making a Motobecane purchase? On the one hand, this Hal 6 pro REALLY is a crazy deal. Ive done a ton of research and seriously cannot find any bikes even close to the specs until you hit the $4-5K mark. It really does seem too good to be true. As some have pointed out, components are the components so there is no way a motobecane xtr rear derailleur will be any different on a motobecane or a specialized. So then the only thing to worry about is the frame weight, angles, and quality. But when you look at other manufacturers that sell frames alone the frames are pretty expensive (like more than my whole bike costs) So i'm just wondering if this is a mistake to hang such nice componentry on a cheap frame. Should people really have to be getting their frames machined on a brand new purchase?!?!

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    I won't say if you should buy it, but I will say the BD bike will come to your house the same way an LBS bike will come to their shop. LBS's have the tools and experience to go through all the bearings, pivot points, facing components, etc.. when assembling the bike. This is one of the things you're paying for when you get a bike from an LBS. The full blown crazy level of detail required for proper assembly and preparation of a bike. Expensive bikes require greater level of assembly detail than a cheap bike, which is one reason why they cost so much more. An LBS should almost completely disassemble one of these bikes to make sure it's all put together properly, because there's more to it that can go wrong. Proper use of grease, loctite, torque settings, cable routing, derailleur hanger alignment, and as the main focus of this thread, proper machine work at the factory.

    It's up to you to decide if you need that level of detail or not. Personally, if you like to wrench, you'll like doing all that stuff yourself. Once you get a basic tool kit, you can do most of the assembly the LBS can do (with some trial and error along the way) except the facing and specialty tools. These are rare or one time use tools, so your better off paying an LBS to do this stuff. Facing a BB shell, leveling brake mounts, install/remove press fit bearings.

    If something is machined wrong, that's a different issue. Warranty time. Even an LBS would call up the manufacturer and get a replacement under warranty.
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    Interesting, so on bikes arriving to the LBS sometimes the BB must be faced as well? This is common in all production bikes?

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    I would expect a $4000 bike to have it's BB faced, because its $$$$. (although I'd expect a titanium frame to be faced too, and we all know how that went) I would not expect the frame of a $1000 bike to come into the LBS with the bottom bracket faced. The LBS would check it and if it needs faced, they'd face it. Otherwise, they'd keep on truckin.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cc in Hawaii View Post
    Interesting, so on bikes arriving to the LBS sometimes the BB must be faced as well? This is common in all production bikes?
    What watts888 said is 100% true. Big money machines will have perfect machining right out of the box, not sure it justifies the massive prices of these bikes, but nice machine work is paramount when paying that much cash. Motobecane uses a well known manufacturer (Kenesis) for their alloy frames, or at least they used to. I would expect the quality control on those frames should be pretty high. The new HAL might be a Kenesis product, not sure. Their Titanium on the other hand is done through ORA Engineering, who also is supposed to be pretty good. Not sure what the heck is going on with the 2015 Fly Team frame that they sent me. Furthermore to tell me the replacement they had available was machined the same, is completely unsatisfactory. I had 2 guys that I work with that are both savvy with metal work look at the pictures in this thread, and they both immediately sighted the problems with what I showed them. Neither one is an avid mountain biker, but yet they both said, that's terrible machine work. Not what should be expected from the top of the line Titanium Frame offered by BD and Motobecane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    What watts888 said is 100% true. Big money machines will have perfect machining right out of the box, not sure it justifies the massive prices of these bikes, but nice machine work is paramount when paying that much cash. Motobecane uses a well known manufacturer (Kenesis) for their alloy frames, or at least they used to. I would expect the quality control on those frames should be pretty high. The new HAL might be a Kenesis product, not sure. Their Titanium on the other hand is done through ORA Engineering, who also is supposed to be pretty good. Not sure what the heck is going on with the 2015 Fly Team frame that they sent me. Furthermore to tell me the replacement they had available was machined the same, is completely unsatisfactory. I had 2 guys that I work with that are both savvy with metal work look at the pictures in this thread, and they both immediately sighted the problems with what I showed them. Neither one is an avid mountain biker, but yet they both said, that's terrible machine work. Not what should be expected from the top of the line Titanium Frame offered by BD and Motobecane.
    Yeah thats what disturbs me! At this point Ive decided to stick with my Hal6 purchase. As before I just cant find anyhting else with the specs for even close to the price so guess Im gonna roll the dice. It sounds like worst case scenario is I will have to go through a bit of hassle to be the bottom bracket faced. Best case it will be an unbeatable deal. Im willing to try it. I still feel like BD is blowing it on the titanium and that they should be full of apologies and promise you a perfectly machined one asap and even put a rush on it from the original manufacturer. THAT would put us all at ease. A lot of people read these forums before they buy a motobecane since they are not as well known as Specialized and trek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Alloy bikes can easily have their BB shells face machined and re-threaded. The OP's frame was titanium, which is not something you want to machine without the proper tools. Bike shops can fix a messed up alloy frame, and if it's like that new, it's on BD (IMO).

    And bobaX, you created some old threads a couple years ago about a moto you had bought, so you've already got experience with a BD bike. Was that BB messed up, or did you not have a need to take it apart?
    Hey watts888,

    I had the 2014 Fantom Comp 29, and it was my first mountain bike. I was a newbie (and still am) so I didn't even know about the BB issue. I just assembled it together and rode it on paved streets lol. Sold that bike at a $500 loss and now serious about mountain biking.. So am in the market for a bike...

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    I called Bikesdirect yesterday and they said they had 6 of the size Large frame/fork combo's left. I went ahead and ordered one hoping mine comes with the bottom bracket shell properly tapped and faced. If not I will send it back but based on many good reviews I am hoping it comes ready to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    I called Bikesdirect yesterday and they said they had 6 of the size Large frame/fork combo's left. I went ahead and ordered one hoping mine comes with the bottom bracket shell properly tapped and faced. If not I will send it back but based on many good reviews I am hoping it comes ready to go.
    Well that is interesting. I guess they just looked at the one they were going to send me and said it was machined the same. Pretty messed up that they didn't look at all of their inventory to get me a frame that was good. Actually makes me a little mad, plus I've been waiting 4 days for them to respond to the message I sent them after they told me the replacement frame was also machined poorly, or as they said machined the same. Not sure they actually agree that the machine job is bad or not, at least they haven't acknowledged that to me. If you don't mind can you share which number you called and how your experience was talking to them directly. Thanks for the input though. Hopefully they are not counting the 2 frames they had for me as part of the 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    Well that is interesting. I guess they just looked at the one they were going to send me and said it was machined the same. Pretty messed up that they didn't look at all of their inventory to get me a frame that was good. Actually makes me a little mad, plus I've been waiting 4 days for them to respond to the message I sent them after they told me the replacement frame was also machined poorly, or as they said machined the same. Not sure they actually agree that the machine job is bad or not, at least they haven't acknowledged that to me. If you don't mind can you share which number you called and how your experience was talking to them directly. Thanks for the input though. Hopefully they are not counting the 2 frames they had for me as part of the 6.

    That is strange. I called 1 904-249-2453. This was right on the Bikesdirect website at the bottom of the page. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the people that have these frames seem to love them. I will keep you posted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    That is strange. I called 1 904-249-2453. This was right on the Bikesdirect website at the bottom of the page. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the people that have these frames seem to love them. I will keep you posted
    Yes please do, and post some pictures if you get one with a good looking BB shell thread and facing. I e-mailed them this morning after reading your posting, so I will see what they have to say. If I don't hear from them by Tuesday, I'm going to call and talk to someone directly to try to get to the bottom of this situation. Thanks for letting me know which number you called. I'll give that one a shot if e-mail proves unsuccessful in resolving my issue.

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    To throw confusion onto the fire. A guy on a local facebook page bought one of these ti frames in the last month, 19", and he says it was fine.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    To throw confusion onto the fire. A guy on a local facebook page bought one of these ti frames in the last month, 19", and he says it was fine.
    I hope you are right and my experience is similar to the person on the local Facebook page. Thanks for sharing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    To throw confusion onto the fire. A guy on a local facebook page bought one of these ti frames in the last month, 19", and he says it was fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    I hope you are right and my experience is similar to the person on the local Facebook page. Thanks for sharing!
    So I got another response from BD after I sent them another e-mail mentioning Ranger Prides order and the fact he was told there were 6 frame kits remaining. My e-mail was fairly long inquiring about the situation and stating that I would like another frame too if there was one that was in good shape. I did state that if they inspected them and they were not good then I would like a refund. I think they are done with me as I got this simple response from them today.

    "Hello again,
    Please pack the fork and headset and let me know the box size and weight and I will have my office send you a return label for those parts. Then once we can see they are on the way back to us we will refund you in full.
    Best regards,
    Larry @ Bikes Direct"

    Didn't address my concern with there being 6 frame kits still available. Didn't bother mentioning anything about if they had even checked to see if it were true that more frame kits existed that they could check out. Didn't agree or disagree when I asked them about what would be done to determine why those frame kits were machined poorly. I guess they are just going to give me my money back and move on from me. I really wanted to get another frame if they had one that would work. If I don't it's going to cost me a ton more to build with the $1,300 worth of parts I have. Especially considering I bought a wheel kit specifically for 135 mm QR dropouts. Now I will have to buy a new hub and have it installed to make the rear compatible with 12x142 mm. Probably gonna cost me at least $1,000 more if I go with someone like Lynskey. Not very happy about that at all. I guess I have learned my lesson and will, in the future, make sure the frame is squared away first. I will probably call them tomorrow and try to figure out why they are so quick to just return my money instead of trying to get me a frame that will work, as that is what I desire most. I am really bummed by this outcome.

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    Hopefully they get your frame issue taken care of when you talk live to someone, Let us know how that goes.

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    Update! Bikesdirect cancelled my order saying they were out of stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    Update! Bikesdirect cancelled my order saying they were out of stock.
    Now that's a bit ridiculous. Wonder if they looked at the other frames and realized they were garbage too. Who the heck knows, but if you call them, let us know what the deal is.

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    I'm waiting for these to show up on bikeisland at a discounted price.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    I'm waiting for these to show up on bikeisland at a discounted price.
    Yeah, I think I'm going to move on from Motobecane and turn to Dean or Lynskey for my Titanium frame needs. Gonna cost me a bit more but I think I will get a higher quality product from folks that truly care about quality. I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. Especially if their top offering doesn't even maintain quality control for one of the most important parts of the bike. Furthermore BD's handling of the situation with no explanation of why those frames are faulty, is bothersome. To me they should have communicated that they were looking into the issue and were taking it seriously. Instead their e-mail responses were short and never gave me any reason to believe they agreed with my assessment of the machine job. The only positive is they are refunding my payment in full as soon as I get the fork and headset in the mail. They have also paid the fee for return shipping, which they should do anyway. Other than that, I am no longer impressed with the Motobecane product as I once was. I feel at this point you get what you pay for, even though the big name companies way over charge for what you get. At least you do get a good quality frame to work with, albeit at a premium price point. I think if folks pulled apart a lot of the BD bikes, they would find flaws that most of us experienced riders would find unacceptable from a quality standpoint. I'm sure some of their stuff is okay, but I have serious doubts about their quality control at this point. I hope this was just a bad run of frames, but the way BD handled it doesn't give me a good feeling about working with them in the future. I would be interested to hear why they cancelled Ranger Pride's order, I'm sure their e-mail gave no indication of why, which is what would bother me. I guess we will see how it all turns out.

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    With name brands, the mark up is usually you paying for their marketing expenses (getting products reviewed by the media, PR events, advertisement, etc). I'd be willing to bet 25%+ of the price of the bike is spent on marketing.

    BD doesn't do any of those activities, and being direct to consumer, that's why they're cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobaX View Post
    With name brands, the mark up is usually you paying for their marketing expenses (getting products reviewed by the media, PR events, advertisement, etc). I'd be willing to bet 25%+ of the price of the bike is spent on marketing.

    BD doesn't do any of those activities, and being direct to consumer, that's why they're cheaper.
    That's true but I have never in my life had a bike with a poorly machined bottom bracket such as this. I've owned numerous Specialized, Raleigh, and Trek bikes and none have ever let me down when it comes to quality. Some of those bikes, if not all, were probably built in an Asian plant, but quality was still high. I also purchased a Litech Magnesium frame back in 2005 and paid $150 shipped, and its quality was superb. All these bikes were setup with square taper bottom brackets, yet their shell faces were excellent, even though that isn't totally required for square taper setups. So for Bikes Direct to tell me that both frames they could have sent me were badly machined, that's a break down of quality control. Could be another reason their products are so much cheaper. At least it adds to the fact. It wasn't so much the fact the frame was faulty, it's the way they handled the situation and their lack of communication. Glad they are refunding me but I don't buy stuff from companies just so I can return it. I would have rather stuck with them and had them care more about getting me a quality frame. They had no desire to make me a happy customer and assure me they would look into the matter and get me taken care of. That is ultimately what has turned me away from them and will have me placing an order for a Lynskey here soon. I'm gonna be out about a $1,000 extra but I feel I will have a good quality bike to show for it. Frame is $1,250 and the fork will cost me $545 but it's a SID RCT3. So overall it will be a better product. Hopefully Bikes direct well get there frame situation sorted out and be able to provide decent stuff for folks.

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    is it just a bad BB or is it the frame thats messed up? Sorry not too familiar with the components yet..

    If its the threads on the actual BB and not the frame, I’d be concerned About BD letting a defective BB pass rather than questioning BD’s bike quality right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobaX View Post
    is it just a bad BB or is it the frame thats messed up? Sorry not too familiar with the components yet..
    The frame was machined wrong. Quality control at the factory shouldn't have let them leave the building. It's an easy thing to spot, so it was just pure laziness on the manufacturer.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    The frame was machined wrong. Quality control at the factory shouldn't have let them leave the building. It's an easy thing to spot, so it was just pure laziness on the manufacturer.

    Should be blamed on Kjnesis or whoever manufactured the frames then, no?And if they make frames for other name brands it should be safe to say that this type of mistake could happen to Giant, etc as well.

    The only thing to blame BD on is Final QA on their part and the way they’ve handled this issue

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobaX View Post
    Should be blamed on Kjnesis or whoever manufactured the frames then, no?And if they make frames for other name brands it should be safe to say that this type of mistake could happen to Giant, etc as well.

    The only thing to blame BD on is Final QA on their part and the way they’ve handled this issue
    All true but the ultimate responsibility falls to the one marketing the product, as they are the ones putting their name behind it. The way they handle the situation ultimately means the most to me as a consumer. BD should be holding the manufacturers feet to the fire, maybe they are, but they have not expressed that to me in any way. I can't tell whether they agree with my assessment of the issue or if they think I'm just a picky jerk. That to me is what has me turning away from them. Looks like Lynskey will be the choice for me. Guy got back to me very quickly, answered my questions superbly, and even has a picture attached in his email with his office number and cell phone! Now that's satisfaction and great customer interaction. I can put a name, a face, and a phone number to my point of contact. Hopefully their frame will be just as impressive.

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    This thread motivated me to remove my crankset and check out the BB on the 27.5 Ti Fantom I purchased from BD back in early March. I purchased the complete bike and it's worth noting it is not the Fly model. My BB is perfect. Photos are a little blurry but everything is centered and the facing is nice and flat. Bearings thread right in and out by hand. Guess I got lucky.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ndatube67 View Post
    This thread motivated me to remove my crankset and check out the BB on the 27.5 Ti Fantom I purchased from BD back in early March. I purchased the complete bike and it's worth noting it is not the Fly model. My BB is perfect. Photos are a little blurry but everything is centered and the facing is nice and flat. Bearings thread right in and out by hand. Guess I got lucky.


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    Sure enough, that looks pretty darn good. So it proves they are capable of producing a quality product, which I didn't doubt they could. I think they got a bad batch of Fly Team's it seems. For me it's too late, since they didn't really want to explain the situation to me. I'm going to go with a Lynskey and spend some serious cash, although Lynskey's are pretty well priced especially for a frame built in the USA. Glad your frame looks excellent, wish mine would have and I would be on the trails already.

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    Thanks Rob. I've put 150 trouble free miles on mine since I got it on March 7th. I hope you get the Lynskey built and are riding soon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndatube67 View Post
    This thread motivated me to remove my crankset and check out the BB on the 27.5 Ti Fantom I purchased from BD back in early March. I purchased the complete bike and it's worth noting it is not the Fly model. My BB is perfect. Photos are a little blurry but everything is centered and the facing is nice and flat. Bearings thread right in and out by hand. Guess I got lucky.

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    I think it's less "you got lucky" vs. the OP "got un-lucky". While I COMPLETELY understand the frustration he feels, I also know that there is always and "acceptable loss" factor in any quality control. For BD to have 100% QC would mean they would have to unpack every bike and then box it back up before shipping. I worked in the "industry" for over a decade and have seen some pretty heinous stuff come in through bike shops. When you buy from BD, you ARE the bike shop. Personally, I had a great experience with BD when I bought my last bike from them a month ago. I had a small problem, emailed, taken care of.
    The member formerly known as Redtires....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Handlebar View Post
    I think it's less "you got lucky" vs. the OP "got un-lucky". While I COMPLETELY understand the frustration he feels, I also know that there is always and "acceptable loss" factor in any quality control. For BD to have 100% QC would mean they would have to unpack every bike and then box it back up before shipping. I worked in the "industry" for over a decade and have seen some pretty heinous stuff come in through bike shops. When you buy from BD, you ARE the bike shop. Personally, I had a great experience with BD when I bought my last bike from them a month ago. I had a small problem, emailed, taken care of.
    Yeah but WTF? if BD is now alerted to the problem, they should do everything in their power to get fix it, or at least offer a transparent answer like "so sorry, we got a bad batch, cant get you a new frame for 3 months" . Thats just good business. Even after everything robn30 has been through he was STILL willing to try again if they would. Instead they just send him short emails explaining nothing and tell him to get lost basically. This is actually the worst thread i've seen on a motobecane product and it WILL hurt their business to some degree. People are already a little nervous about these bikes and this will just confirm that their deals are too good to be true, or that if you "get lucky" you will get a good bike. What I really think happened is they got a bad batch, and are not willing to admit it openly to customers. They are probably having to have a new batch made but obviously that will take a while. We should all emaill them on Robn30's behalf and heckle them! (after I get my new Hal6 that is),,,,

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    FWIW I sent an email to their sales a day ago to inquire about an out of stock Fantom X7 and have yet to hear anything back. Seems like it's a mom and pop kinda operation with 1 sales guy, 1 customer service rep, and a few other people here and there.

    This is the kind of thing we have to sacrifice if we want to go the budget route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cc in Hawaii View Post
    Yeah but WTF? if BD is now alerted to the problem, they should do everything in their power to get fix it, or at least offer a transparent answer like "so sorry, we got a bad batch, cant get you a new frame for 3 months" . Thats just good business. Even after everything robn30 has been through he was STILL willing to try again if they would. Instead they just send him short emails explaining nothing and tell him to get lost basically. This is actually the worst thread i've seen on a motobecane product and it WILL hurt their business to some degree. People are already a little nervous about these bikes and this will just confirm that their deals are too good to be true, or that if you "get lucky" you will get a good bike. What I really think happened is they got a bad batch, and are not willing to admit it openly to customers. They are probably having to have a new batch made but obviously that will take a while. We should all emaill them on Robn30's behalf and heckle them! (after I get my new Hal6 that is),,,,
    I'm now just waiting for my refund. We'll see how that goes. All parts have been sent back and the last of them should arrive to BD soon. I've already ordered a Lynskey Ridgeline 29'er with Cane Creek 40 series headset and Lynskey 12x142 thru axle. Also ordered a Rockshox SID RCT3 100mm fork to go with it. Cost me about $1,000 more over the Motobecane, but I feel this is going to give me the quality I need and expect. Frame is also American made, so I do feel good about that. Customer service has been excellent so far and they are currently offering a 30% discount on the Ridgeline. So I have bailed out on BD and will not consider them in the future just because of the way they handled this situation. No explanation of what would be done about getting me a quality frame, just refund my money. Cancelled Ranger Prides order and not sure they explained what happened there, after telling him they had 6 frames in stock. Maybe he will check back in on that issue. I don't doubt that a good bike can be attained through them, I just think their business model and customer care isn't up to par for me. At least they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and say they will refund your money. I'll report back if I have any issues with getting my refund.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    Yeah, I think I'm going to move on from Motobecane and turn to Dean or Lynskey for my Titanium frame needs. Gonna cost me a bit more but I think I will get a higher quality product from folks that truly care about quality. I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. Especially if their top offering doesn't even maintain quality control for one of the most important parts of the bike. Furthermore BD's handling of the situation with no explanation of why those frames are faulty, is bothersome. To me they should have communicated that they were looking into the issue and were taking it seriously. Instead their e-mail responses were short and never gave me any reason to believe they agreed with my assessment of the machine job. The only positive is they are refunding my payment in full as soon as I get the fork and headset in the mail. They have also paid the fee for return shipping, which they should do anyway. Other than that, I am no longer impressed with the Motobecane product as I once was. I feel at this point you get what you pay for, even though the big name companies way over charge for what you get. At least you do get a good quality frame to work with, albeit at a premium price point. I think if folks pulled apart a lot of the BD bikes, they would find flaws that most of us experienced riders would find unacceptable from a quality standpoint. I'm sure some of their stuff is okay, but I have serious doubts about their quality control at this point. I hope this was just a bad run of frames, but the way BD handled it doesn't give me a good feeling about working with them in the future. I would be interested to hear why they cancelled Ranger Pride's order, I'm sure their e-mail gave no indication of why, which is what would bother me. I guess we will see how it all turns out.
    "I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. "

    I call BS on that one. They offered you a refund and paid for the return shipping. I'll bet a lot of 'high end' frames have that same issue. And I'll bet the other brands would not have covered you all the same. You are going to pay double for that same frame made by someone else? really?

    How about just picking up a used one on craigslist? Ti frames sell cheap when used - even the top brands sell cheap and sometimes are even a tough sell.

    Fly Team owner here, hammered it to death on the North Shore. It still won't die. I put a 40mm longer fork on it, then hammered it some more. Still won't die. This frame is indestructible. That's my experience.

    I'm not denying your experience, but the 'motobecane' for beginners is complete BS.

    They are one busy operation. They have tons of customers to deal with. What would you have liked them to do, have a discussion with you? They agree, they will pay for a return. What's not to like with that in the bike industry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    "I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. "

    I call BS on that one. They offered you a refund and paid for the return shipping. I'll bet a lot of 'high end' frames have that same issue. And I'll bet the other brands would not have covered you all the same. You are going to pay double for that same frame made by someone else? really?

    How about just picking up a used one on craigslist? Ti frames sell cheap when used - even the top brands sell cheap and sometimes are even a tough sell.

    Fly Team owner here, hammered it to death on the North Shore. It still won't die. I put a 40mm longer fork on it, then hammered it some more. Still won't die. This frame is indestructible. That's my experience.

    I'm not denying your experience, but the 'motobecane' for beginners is complete BS.

    They are one busy operation. They have tons of customers to deal with. What would you have liked them to do, have a discussion with you? They agree, they will pay for a return. What's not to like with that in the bike industry?
    First off, did you bother to read this entire thread or at least the other posts I wrote, or did you just key on these few comments. For the record, if you looked at the pictures I posted of the frame they sent me, I challenge that one of the big name brands would have allowed that to pass out of their production plant. Furthermore if we are talking about Specialized, Trek, Giant, or any of the other big name brands, they are not mail order. You would not be able to purchase them in the same way as BD sells their products. If we just stick to Titanium since that is the material I am choosing to build my frame with, again I challenge that Moots, Lynskey, Seven, Merlin, or any of the other Titanium frame manufacturers would ever let that glaring of a machine job leave their production facility. Lastly, before I get to the actual facts, I never said BD couldn't sell you a good product, I own one myself, if you read the posts you would know that. Now for the facts.

    1. I am thrilled their business model allows for 100% satisfaction guarantee, and they will return your money, never disputed that fact.

    2. Time is money and I don't agree that just because they returned my money that I should just be totally satisfied. It has now been 2 weeks and I am still not enjoying the bike I wanted to enjoy.

    3. I now have some parts that are not usable because they were bought specifically for the Fly Team build, such as my QR wheelset. Had to purchase a new wheelset to matchup with the newer 12x142mm rear dropouts. That was my choice and I'm sure I could have got some used stuff somewhere but that was never my intention for this build.

    4. Yes I do think they should have had some dialogue with me, is that too much to ask when a customer has received something that is clearly not up to par. We are all busy in life, but they are running a business, and part of that is trying to please their customers.

    5. You have no idea of the communication that has passed back and forth between BD and myself. So I will tell you that they never answered any of my questions. They never showed any desire to get me a good frame and never told me in any way they were sorry that I didn't get something I could work with from the start. They never agreed or disagreed with my assessment of the frame I received. They never told me we were looking into it and were dedicated to coming through for me on this transaction. They just offered my money back even though I told them I wanted to stick with them and just wanted to know when I could get a good frame from them.

    6. Sorry but this is a bad business model to work with, this is not how customers should be dealt with, we deserve some type of explanation, especially when we state we want to stick with them and get a good product.

    So if you haven't looked at all or most of the threads, calling BS on a few sentences is a little ridiculous. For someone who has owned as many bikes as I have and who has been riding since 1989, I have never had a single bike that was machined this poorly. Not even the 2004 Motobecane 700HT that I still own was machined this poorly. So I have some frame of reference to work with. I expect a higher level of quality then that of someone just breaking into the Mountain biking scene. They might not have realized how bad that bottom bracket was until they tried to assemble the bike or took it to an LBS, which would have told them there is no way they would assemble it. That is the point I was attempting to make, not that a Motobecane is such an inferior machine. If that was the case, then why would I be trying to purchase my second one, think on that for a second. Read more than just one post before assuming what I meant by a few sentences.

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    ^^^ UM . OK.

    I'll quote you.

    "I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. "

    Like I said, I'm not denying your experience, but the "'motobecane' for beginners" part is complete BS.

    And when do most people that buy shop bikes even take apart the crank and BB and inspect the machining?

    Not many. Not even the pros. And when the shop replaces the BB they might just charge you for facing it and not make an issue.

    And when the bike shop you bought the bike from does your BB change, they most certainly won't tell you the machining was off. They will just quietly deal with it.

    Just saying - in a shop bike, a lot goes unnoticed. I saw a bike in a shop the other day with the street fork installed backwards on the display bike. Go figure that one.

    And no, I did not bother to read the _entire_ thread. TL;DR it all. Sorry.

    But still, BikesDirect sells a lot of models, a sh!tload ton of different models - from all bike types. They want your sale, but not bad enough to handhold customers that want explanations when things go awry.

    it is like the returns department at Costco. They serve you with an excellent return policy and then help the next person. But they don't run back to the dock, talk to the returns manager, email the vendors, and then get back to you with a reason why your mattress sagged prematurely or your BBQ burst into flames.

    That's all I am saying. Their prices are because of the efficiency of their service and their non-service is also for a reason.

    If you buy a full mtbr bike from them, you can almost make a profit just reselling the components on the used market.

    And yes, some "American Made" Ti frames are also made overseas. Newsflash. And I've compared them to the Fly Team and the Fly Team is a better frame - hands down better build and welds.

    I'd be pissed too if they sent me a frame with a fubarred BB. That is a waste of time. But that happens sometimes. Sh!t happens.

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    What he said above is spot on.

    Okay they had a bad run of Ti frames. Other large manufacturers have had issues. Salsa had paint issues on the first Bucksaws I believe and had fork recalls on the Beargrease alloy forks. That does not mean that all of Salsa's paint is bad or all of their forks are bad, just like the issues with the Ti frame does not mean that all BD bikes have flaws. Again I have taken 2 BD bike completely apart and there were no issues. Guess I got lucky twice. Again you expect $2000 service when buying a $1000 frame. Part of the mark up on the other frames is the service you are getting.

    I do not expect to be treated the same at a Benz dealer and a Kia dealer either, even if I am buying a top of the line Kia. And the quality is going to be different, it just is.

    Ultimately I am glad that the OP is moving on and will be happy with his whatever frame he goes with now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    ^^^ UM . OK.

    I'll quote you.

    "I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. "

    Like I said, I'm not denying your experience, but the "'motobecane' for beginners" part is complete BS.

    And when do most people that buy shop bikes even take apart the crank and BB and inspect the machining?

    Not many. Not even the pros. And when the shop replaces the BB they might just charge you for facing it and not make an issue.

    And when the bike shop you bought the bike from does your BB change, they most certainly won't tell you the machining was off. They will just quietly deal with it.

    Just saying - in a shop bike, a lot goes unnoticed. I saw a bike in a shop the other day with the street fork installed backwards on the display bike. Go figure that one.

    And no, I did not bother to read the _entire_ thread. TL;DR it all. Sorry.

    But still, BikesDirect sells a lot of models, a sh!tload ton of different models - from all bike types. They want your sale, but not bad enough to handhold customers that want explanations when things go awry.

    it is like the returns department at Costco. They serve you with an excellent return policy and then help the next person. But they don't run back to the dock, talk to the returns manager, email the vendors, and then get back to you with a reason why your mattress sagged prematurely or your BBQ burst into flames.

    That's all I am saying. Their prices are because of the efficiency of their service and their non-service is also for a reason.

    If you buy a full mtbr bike from them, you can almost make a profit just reselling the components on the used market.

    And yes, some "American Made" Ti frames are also made overseas. Newsflash. And I've compared them to the Fly Team and the Fly Team is a better frame - hands down better build and welds.

    I'd be pissed too if they sent me a frame with a fubarred BB. That is a waste of time. But that happens sometimes. Sh!t happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    What he said above is spot on.

    Okay they had a bad run of Ti frames. Other large manufacturers have had issues. Salsa had paint issues on the first Bucksaws I believe and had fork recalls on the Beargrease alloy forks. That does not mean that all of Salsa's paint is bad or all of their forks are bad, just like the issues with the Ti frame does not mean that all BD bikes have flaws. Again I have taken 2 BD bike completely apart and there were no issues. Guess I got lucky twice. Again you expect $2000 service when buying a $1000 frame. Part of the mark up on the other frames is the service you are getting.

    I do not expect to be treated the same at a Benz dealer and a Kia dealer either, even if I am buying a top of the line Kia. And the quality is going to be different, it just is.

    Ultimately I am glad that the OP is moving on and will be happy with his whatever frame he goes with now.
    Neither of you have said anything that I don't already know. We simply have a difference of opinion about customer service. I am not leaving BD because they sell absolutely garbage products, I am leaving because I expect better customer service when I try to buy something and it turns out to be garbage. I own a product of theirs that served me wonderfully for about 2 years before I built a different bike. I think you guys are getting all hot and bothered about an opinion of mine and the customer service I expect. If it's not what you would expect that's okay. If your LBS puts bikes together wrong that's not an example of the one I go to, which is far more competent than that. Lastly, my LBS inspects all the bikes they receive and checks for proper torque and lubrication. Some LBS's sell bare frames and would never try to sell something like what I received. I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of BD, this isn't my first rodeo in online bike purchasing. I simply am not pleased with how they moved on from me with no explanation whatsoever. I need no hand holding, just a little more than send it back and we will refund your money. I'm glad both of you enjoy your machines but there is no need to be such a fan boy that you are happy I am moving on from BD and Motobecane, and think that I have no idea what I am doing. Good customer service means something to me, a lot actually. Money was never the concern, I think Motobecane is a fine product, and will get the bad run of frames corrected. I almost went with and Asian produced Dean frame so I know all about Ti from Asian manufacturers, I am well informed, I promise you that. I choose Lynskey in the end due to their sale and amazing customer service through the rep I have been working with. Enjoy your Moto's and I will enjoy the Lynskey, and my friend will soon be enjoying my old Moto when I sell it to him so he can begin riding with me.

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    I am not a BD fan boy and other than my fat bike, they don't really make anything that speaks to me. And I bought the fatbike because it is a KHS 4 Season frame. Other 2 purchases were for my kids because they would grow out of them and the bikes were cheap. I am not a fan boy, I consider myself someone who apparently does not expect much from companies I guess. I am not happy you are moving on because I am a fan boy, I am happy you are moving on because you clearly are not happy with BD, they did not treat you the way you wanted to be treated. So I am glad that you can move on to another manufacturer that suits your needs and meets your expectations, just as you said in your last statement.

    Trust me I am not all hot and bothered about this. Just like to
    Provide an alternate viewpoint at times, especially when blanket statements are made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    ^^^ UM . OK.

    I'll quote you.

    "I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. "

    Like I said, I'm not denying your experience, but the "'motobecane' for beginners" part is complete BS.

    And when do most people that buy shop bikes even take apart the crank and BB and inspect the machining?

    Not many. Not even the pros. And when the shop replaces the BB they might just charge you for facing it and not make an issue.

    And when the bike shop you bought the bike from does your BB change, they most certainly won't tell you the machining was off. They will just quietly deal with it.

    Just saying - in a shop bike, a lot goes unnoticed. I saw a bike in a shop the other day with the street fork installed backwards on the display bike. Go figure that one.

    And no, I did not bother to read the _entire_ thread. TL;DR it all. Sorry.

    But still, BikesDirect sells a lot of models, a sh!tload ton of different models - from all bike types. They want your sale, but not bad enough to handhold customers that want explanations when things go awry.

    it is like the returns department at Costco. They serve you with an excellent return policy and then help the next person. But they don't run back to the dock, talk to the returns manager, email the vendors, and then get back to you with a reason why your mattress sagged prematurely or your BBQ burst into flames.

    That's all I am saying. Their prices are because of the efficiency of their service and their non-service is also for a reason.

    If you buy a full mtbr bike from them, you can almost make a profit just reselling the components on the used market.

    And yes, some "American Made" Ti frames are also made overseas. Newsflash. And I've compared them to the Fly Team and the Fly Team is a better frame - hands down better build and welds.

    I'd be pissed too if they sent me a frame with a fubarred BB. That is a waste of time. But that happens sometimes. Sh!t happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    I am not a BD fan boy and other than my fat bike, they don't really make anything that speaks to me. And I bought the fatbike because it is a KHS 4 Season frame. Other 2 purchases were for my kids because they would grow out of them and the bikes were cheap. I am not a fan boy, I consider myself someone who apparently does not expect much from companies I guess. I am not happy you are moving on because I am a fan boy, I am happy you are moving on because you clearly are not happy with BD, they did not treat you the way you wanted to be treated. So I am glad that you can move on to another manufacturer that suits your needs and meets your expectations, just as you said in your last statement.

    Trust me I am not all hot and bothered about this. Just like to
    Provide an alternate viewpoint at times, especially when blanket statements are made.
    I can appreciate that. I have made a lot of statements in this thread, including good ones about BD and Motobecane. I tried to explain my rationale about the statement as not that Moto's are beginner bikes, but that folks who are getting into the sport usually are not trying to break their bank to buy a bike. BD serves them well and so does Moto. As I said, if I thought they were junk I wouldn't be trying to purchase my second Moto. Early on in this thread you can see that I was still hoping to get a quality replacement for the frame I received. All my issues are with BD and their lack of concern for my sale. Call it selfish but it was my $1,099.95 that was spent, and although a good deal, it's still a lot of dough. In the end I spent more to go Lynskey but money was never the worry, I am lucky enough to have it to spend. I went Moto because it served me well in the past and from what I could tell the product seemed to be good. Unfortunately they seem to have had a bad run of frames. If BD would have communicated that and said they wanted to make this right and it would be 3 weeks before they got some new frames in, I would have been waiting for a new one. Heck it's gonna take Lynskey 3-4 weeks to build my frame. By the way, it's not like I was not asking these questions to BD, they just chose not to answer any of my questions. I don't just expect they should be sending me e-mail after e-mail filling me in. I expect to have my direct questions answered as a paying customer. If that is unreasonable, then that's a shame, and no business will receive my patronage if they go that route. I owe my allegiance to no company and will never be a fan boy of any brand. I hope you can appreciate and understand where I am coming from. I to wanted to be one of the folks who could say great things about Motobecane and ride one of their bikes. If I see someone on the trail riding one, I will complement them on their choice, and say they got a great deal. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had this issue with BD and will not be the last.

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    The OP realizes BD sells about 101 different bike models? They have a huge selection mix. They really don't care about someone's preferred BB machining. They just keep their word and arrange the refund.

    Did the Motobecane come with a fork? For a thousand dollars that is sssssmmmmoking hot deal.

    Was it the one with tapered steerer?

    2015 Motobecane
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    PLUS*FREE*HEADSET

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    [QUOTE=TracksFromHell;12626709]^^^ UM . OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    The OP realizes BD sells about 101 different bike models? They have a huge selection mix. They really don't care about someone's preferred BB machining. They just keep their word and arrange the refund.

    Did the Motobecane come with a fork? For a thousand dollars that is sssssmmmmoking hot deal.

    Was it the one with tapered steerer?

    2015 Motobecane
    FLY Team 29er Titanium
    Frame and Fork
    SALE $1099.95*(List $2295)
    PLUS*FREE*HEADSET

    Advanced Butted/Shaped*
    3AL/2.5V Titanium frames
    Tapered Steerer+Thru Axle Front
    100mm Rockshox Reba RL 29
    (the fork alone sells for over $500)
    Yes I realize they sell a lot and it's not my preferred BB machining, it's just correct BB machining. if I can't thread the bearings then it's not correct. If it has a dip in the face, the bearings will find that dip and wear very quickly. Neither of those things are good. At least look at the photos I posted if you haven't already, and it's pretty easy to see that these frames were garbage. Especially if you compare it to ndatube67's post above.

    Yes the frame deal you listed is the one and it is a great deal. I know they have no 19" frames that are good as that has been realized in these thread by Ranger Pride. He ordered one and they cancelled his order later saying they didn't have any. Pretty sure it was because those frames were also messed up. Not sure as he has not posted back saying if they gave him a reason for the cancelation.

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    [QUOTE=robn30;12627434]
    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    ^^^ UM . OK.


    Yes I realize they sell a lot and it's not my preferred BB machining, it's just correct BB machining. if I can't thread the bearings then it's not correct. If it has a dip in the face, the bearings will find that dip and wear very quickly. Neither of those things are good. At least look at the photos I posted if you haven't already, and it's pretty easy to see that these frames were garbage. Especially if you compare it to ndatube67's post above.

    Yes the frame deal you listed is the one and it is a great deal. I know they have no 19" frames that are good as that has been realized in these thread by Ranger Pride. He ordered one and they cancelled his order later saying they didn't have any. Pretty sure it was because those frames were also messed up. Not sure as he has not posted back saying if they gave him a reason for the cancelation.
    Perhaps these guys have reached the end of the line for that frame and what remains is a few bad ones.

    Anyways, I have moved it to a street xc bike now. Any future frames I buy will need to be +tire compatible. So 27.5+ is the grail for me for anything now.

    I'm just waiting for the prices to come down.

    The HAL6 27.5+ FS bikes look really good. Tempting!

    On another note, the Kona Honzo, if they have a Ti frame, that one will be awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    The OP realizes BD sells about 101 different bike models? They have a huge selection mix. They really don't care about someone's preferred BB machining. They just keep their word and arrange the refund.

    Did the Motobecane come with a fork? For a thousand dollars that is sssssmmmmoking hot deal.
    Actually its a terrible deal BECAUSE THE FRAME IS NOT USABLE!!. Gotta say i'm impressed with Robn30 and his patience. 1st he buys a bunch of expensive components all excited to do his new build. Then he gets an unusable frame, no support, no customer service, and told to get lost by the manufacturer. That's not enough! Next he has to get heckled by 2 motobecane fan boys and basically told "you're the problem" HAHAHAHAHA! Madness. Sorry but I would've snapped by now. Robn30 its not too late to be part of the motobecane cult. You can still try to find a used motobecane frame on ebay! YAY! just dont ever say 1 negative thing about BD no matter HOW they treat you!

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    OMG I quit then. They should have called him personally with a 3 way call between BD and the factory is that what you want to hear?

    For the last time I am not a fan boy I just don't lose my mind because I don't get the best customer service available. They offered to give him his money back. For me that would have solved the problem for me. I am not heckling him I agree the frame was unusable and that he should have not accepted it. I would have wanted a usable frame or a.refund just like him. I just won't need an explanation of how it could have happened or how they were going to rectify it with the factory. That is the only place we disagree on, because I wouldnt care, an explanation doesn't fix the bb shell. My opinion would be the same regardless of who the manufacturer was. Don't confuse being a fan boy with being realistic in expectations for the type of company I am dealing with, which is a discount online retailer.

    If they had not offered a refund and told him the shell was fine I would absolutely lose my mind. But they resolved it by providing a refund. Not a fan boy just have a different opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cc in Hawaii View Post
    Next he has to get heckled by 2 motobecane fan boys and basically told "you're the problem"
    If you can count, There are more than 2 Moto Bacon fan boyz in this thread.

    We welcome all ohana to our bacon cult. Just don't go to the lua on us or be a poho haole about stuff.

    The bigger waves are worth riding — just like Hawaii

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    OMG I quit then. They should have called him personally with a 3 way call between BD and the factory is that what you want to hear?

    For the last time I am not a fan boy I just don't lose my mind because I don't get the best customer service available. They offered to give him his money back. For me that would have solved the problem for me. I am not heckling him I agree the frame was unusable and that he should have not accepted it. I would have wanted a usable frame or a.refund just like him. I just won't need an explanation of how it could have happened or how they were going to rectify it with the factory. That is the only place we disagree on, because I wouldnt care, an explanation doesn't fix the bb shell. My opinion would be the same regardless of who the manufacturer was. Don't confuse being a fan boy with being realistic in expectations for the type of company I am dealing with, which is a discount online retailer.

    If they had not offered a refund and told him the shell was fine I would absolutely lose my mind. But they resolved it by providing a refund. Not a fan boy just have a different opinion.
    I think the point is, I wanted another Fly Team Ti frame, so I could use the parts I bought to build the bike I wanted. Instead 2 weeks later, actually more than that now, I am left with no frame and a wheelset that I can't use or return because of how long this ordeal took to finalize. That's $350 worth of wheels I can't use. Of course I'm going to try to sell them but 135mm QR wheels are not that popular anymore with most frames moving to 12x142mm thru axles. I asked BD at least twice when more frames would be available and they literally ignored my question and just said return the rest of the parts and we will issue a refund. I'm not going to post all my communication with BD, but I can tell you most of my e-mails stated that I wanted this transaction to end in success. I wanted to get a good frame and they would not answer any of my questions and seemed quite pleased to just move on and issue a refund. They could have at least told me they were not going to get anymore frames and then I would have said "oh well, you win some, you lose some". S--- does happen and I am fully capable of dealing with it, but it sucks when there seems to be no way to rectify it. I'm former military and can handle quite a bit of s--- happening, but there was usually an up side somewhere. In this case I was left without one and that is not cool for me. Again, that's just me, others might feel this is okay for them, and are infinitely more patient then me. I'm good with that, but I'm not wrong for handling business the way I do, it has served me well in life.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    Instead 2 weeks later, actually more than that now, I am left with no frame and a wheelset that I can't use or return because of how long this ordeal took to finalize. That's $350 worth of wheels I can't use. Of course I'm going to try to sell them but 135mm QR wheels are not that popular anymore with most frames moving to 12x142mm thru axles.
    Can't you get the hubs little plastic end caps changed for use with 12x142 thru axles?

    My hubs have that and can switch between the two types.

    Hope Pro II hubs. But lots use them, or so I thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    Can't you get the hubs little plastic end caps changed for use with 12x142 thru axles?

    My hubs have that and can switch between the two types.

    Hope Pro II hubs. But lots use them, I thought.
    Unfortunately Shimano doesn't. I have learned a valuable less in that. Hope Pro's are very nice but very pricey. I wanted to do this build for under $3,000 using all M8000 parts. I was at $2,400 until the frame didn't work out. Then I decided to go all in for a Lynskey Ridgeline because they are having a 30% off spring sale. Since it doesn't come with a fork, I then purchased the Rockshox SID RCT3. So in the end it's going to be about $950 more and come in around $3,350. Luckily, as I stated, money was only a minor concern, but I didn't want to move towards $5,000 by going super all in with $1,500 wheels. Which is what it would have been with a set with nice Hope Pro hubs. They seem to only put those on extra nice wheelsets, no surprise there. I'm sure I could have done way more research to find a good deal on some Hope equipped wheels but they still would have been at least $800. So the new wheels I bought have convertible hubs and in the future I will make sure I go that route.

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    Oh sh!et. That's a bummer. I wouldn't hesitate to buy wheels off pinkbike or Craigslist. Perhaps you can sell them too since they are new. Hang in there. It will all work out. This is all just a speed bump on the road to a great bike build.

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    I figured it was a wheelset with Shimano hubs when you said it was $350.

    Why not just buy a Shimano 12x142 rear hub and have the rear wheel related instead of getting an whole new wheelset. That should cost about $100 for the hub and build at a shop. Seems like a easier solution than selling the set you have now and buying a new one.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    I figured it was a wheelset with Shimano hubs when you said it was $350.

    Why not just buy a Shimano 12x142 rear hub and have the rear wheel related instead of getting an whole new wheelset. That should cost about $100 for the hub and build at a shop. Seems like a easier solution than selling the set you have now and buying a new one.
    .
    New set has already been bought, and arrived. The LBS said after new hub, spokes, and work, I would be close to what it would cost for a new wheelset. Plus the only Shimano Hub that I found that is 12x142 is for centerlock disc, so that would be another $30 or so for a new disc. Then another $29 or so for a thru axle. I got a new wheelset for $307 shipped to me and they came with convertible hubs. I'll sell the other ones and get back some of the money. New wheels are almost a pound lighter too, so that is nice. I think they are on the low end of the quality spectrum, but they will work. They are Reynolds R29 AM wheels. Not exactly XC type wheels but they should be fairly tough and I don't race anymore, so not to worried about running XC specific wheels.

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    Wow that original set must have been super heavy as I beleive those Reynolds are what 1800 grams?

    Well that is a bouns, as lighter, to a point is always better.

    What rims did they have laced to the Shimano hubs?
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    Nashbar Carbon Road

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    New set has already been bought, and arrived. The LBS said after new hub, spokes, and work, I would be close to what it would cost for a new wheelset. Plus the only Shimano Hub that I found that is 12x142 is for centerlock disc, so that would be another $30 or so for a new disc. Then another $29 or so for a thru axle. I got a new wheelset for $307 shipped to me and they came with convertible hubs. I'll sell the other ones and get back some of the money. New wheels are almost a pound lighter too, so that is nice. I think they are on the low end of the quality spectrum, but they will work. They are Reynolds R29 AM wheels. Not exactly XC type wheels but they should be fairly tough and I don't race anymore, so not to worried about running XC specific wheels.
    I've got a couple of sets of the R29 AM wheels. They are light and sturdy, but with an internal width of 23mm, it's more of an XC wheel to me (IMO). The convertible end caps for both wheels makes it a universal wheel for any setup (QR, 15mm, 20mm, 12x142mm).

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkangel View Post
    Wow that original set must have been super heavy as I beleive those Reynolds are what 1800 grams?

    Well that is a bouns, as lighter, to a point is always better.

    What rims did they have laced to the Shimano hubs?
    They were WTB ST i25's and they weighed like 2340 grams. The advertisement said 1940 when I bought them. I got them and weighed them and realized they weren't 1940 grams, so I e-mailed the seller and told him his listing was incorrect. He thanked me and said he made a mistake and believes he listed the weight of some similar roadie wheels. He offered to compensate me for the mistake, but for what I paid I told him it wasn't that big a deal. I was wrong too, there was a similar set I was looking at that was $350. The set I actually bought ended up being $270 shipped to my house. I've bought so much stuff over the course of the last month I got confused on that one. The R29 AM's were $307 shipped to me. So I got a fairly good deal on both sets, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tk1971 View Post
    I've got a couple of sets of the R29 AM wheels. They are light and sturdy, but with an internal width of 23mm, it's more of an XC wheel to me (IMO). The convertible end caps for both wheels makes it a universal wheel for any setup (QR, 15mm, 20mm, 12x142mm).
    I have a question for you. Is the drive side rear end cap left hand threaded? I was trying to remove it yesterday and I'm pretty sure I was tightening it, thinking it was right hand threaded. They came with no instructions for switching from QR to 12x142. When I used to race XC, we tried to keep the wheels as narrow as possible to save weight, promote good handling, and use a narrower tire (1.95 to 2.1 max). That was back between 1990 and 1994. Is 23mm considered narrow today? Are there wheels much wider than 29mm external, that aren't fat bike wheels? I haven't really researched it much. Thanks.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    I have a question for you. Is the drive side rear end cap left hand threaded? I was trying to remove it yesterday and I'm pretty sure I was tightening it, thinking it was right hand threaded. They came with no instructions for switching from QR to 12x142. When I used to race XC, we tried to keep the wheels as narrow as possible to save weight, promote good handling, and use a narrower tire (1.95 to 2.1 max). That was back between 1990 and 1994. Is 23mm considered narrow today? Are there wheels much wider than 29mm external, that aren't fat bike wheels? I haven't really researched it much. Thanks.
    They are regular direction threads. Use 2x 5mm allen wrenches and go for it. Lefty Loosey...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tk1971 View Post
    They are regular direction threads. Use 2x 5mm allen wrenches and go for it. Lefty Loosey...
    Okay they must be really tight. I tried lefty loosey and it creaked a little bit but didn't break free. Are they crazy tight or something?

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    Okay they must be really tight. I tried lefty loosey and it creaked a little bit but didn't break free. Are they crazy tight or something?

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
    They ARE crazy/insane tight.

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    robn30, are you on the Lynskey yet? I'm finishing up my latest build.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by robn30 View Post
    When I used to race XC, we tried to keep the wheels as narrow as possible to save weight, promote good handling, and use a narrower tire (1.95 to 2.1 max). That was back between 1990 and 1994. Is 23mm considered narrow today? Are there wheels much wider than 29mm external, that aren't fat bike wheels? I haven't really researched it much. Thanks.
    Is 29mm external fat? No.
    I'd say +size now starts at about 40mm external on a 29er.
    Wider rims is just about having a fun all-mountain width that can support larger tires at low psi.

    The front is a 35mm external, smoothwall carbon wheel, with a 2.5 front Maxxis Minion DHF at something like 20psi. The back is a High Roller II at 2.35 on the same width rims. Even at low psi these are bomber, great cornering, no rim damage and great ride.

    There is a great tire pressure calculator here: MTB tech
    The pressures stated are already adjusted to be on the safe side.

    If this is not your tire and rim combo, you are doing something wrong


  89. #89
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    What is that on your fork. Looks like a little suit. Kinda want to draw arms and a face.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

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    Quote Originally Posted by tk1971 View Post
    robn30, are you on the Lynskey yet? I'm finishing up my latest build.
    Nearly broke one of my hex keys yesterday trying to get the caps off and still couldn't. I think I'm going to the LBS so they can use their vice to hold the hex key on the non-drive while they give it all they've got to loosen the drive side. Guy from Reynolds said they don't provide instructions because they want you to take it to the LBS. Little ridiculous but I'm sure my LBS might do it for no cost, or at least very little cost.
    No the Lynskey will be another 2 weeks or so to be built and shipped. I wish it was quicker because I have some travel that is going to inhibit my ability to assemble the bike. LBS might be called in for that one too because I want to take this on a trip 2 days after I get back from the travel. My timeline is quite cramped.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    What is that on your fork. Looks like a little suit. Kinda want to draw arms and a face.
    Ha ha. it is a mud crutch: Reviewed: RaceFace Mud Crutch

    "Stops so much muck from getting in your mouth"

    It is like the mud shoots through the fork gap upwards and forwards, and then you ride back into it at speed. This is supposed to stop that. And if you ever lose your undies, in an emergency this can provide some cover.

  92. #92
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    I havent read this entire thread.... its just too long...

    I will say this however... there is no doubt the owner of BikesDirect is reading this thread... so just keep that in mind.. you should just know that

    I will add that I own a Lynskey Pro 29 build

    and the FLy Team XX

    I love them both... I have put about 3000 hard miles on the Fly Team.. no issues..

    No issues with the Lynskey also..

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    Ha ha. it is a mud crutch: Reviewed: RaceFace Mud Crutch

    "Stops so much muck from getting in your mouth"

    It is like the mud shoots through the fork gap upwards and forwards, and then you ride back into it at speed. This is supposed to stop that. And if you ever lose your undies, in an emergency this can provide some cover.
    Nice. I know what I'm building tomorrow out of an old inner tube. I still want to draw a happy face with arms on it though. Give the headbadge some bright red dreadlocks, maybe a neck tie.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Nice. I know what I'm building tomorrow out of an old inner tube. I still want to draw a happy face with arms on it though. Give the headbadge some bright red dreadlocks, maybe a neck tie.
    Pictures or it didn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    I havent read this entire thread.... its just too long...

    I will say this however... there is no doubt the owner of BikesDirect is reading this thread... so just keep that in mind.. you should just know that

    I will add that I own a Lynskey Pro 29 build

    and the FLy Team XX

    I love them both... I have put about 3000 hard miles on the Fly Team.. no issues..

    No issues with the Lynskey also..
    If they are, they will know which order it came from as they have received the same pictures and my username gives away my identity. I have no issue with that and would love for someone from Bikes Direct to chime in. Hopefully they could tell us all what happened with those frames. I wish I could have got a good one, not getting one, and them not telling me when I could, is why I went to Lynskey. I wanted to go Motobecane, it would have saved me a lot of money, and I do believe they are fine. Obviously if you get a frame like I got then that's a bummer, but I was hoping they would have a replacement, I was told they didn't. When I inquired as to when I might possibly be able to get another one, that question was never answered. I will say they fully stand behind their satisfaction guarantee. My money has already been refunded as of yesterday. So if you get something that you don't like or is defective, they will quickly get your money back to you.

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

  96. #96
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    robn30 you really have the gift of gab

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    robn30 you really have the gift of gab
    I train our fine up and coming military personnel for a living. Speaking is how I bring home the bacon. Yes I'm good at it. Maybe that is why I value effective communication so much. As a former military member, it was essential to doing our job, especially in a stressful situation.

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

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    My fly... Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!-dscn0332.jpg

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