Fly Team 29er Brake Issues!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fly Team 29er Brake Issues!!

    I purchased one of the new Titanium Fly Team 29er's, this bike comes with a set of
    (Avid Elixir CR hydraulic, 160mm Avid G3 rotor 6 bolt IS mount rear/ post mount front) brakes. They are making horrible squealing noises and a lot of vibration. While doing a search on here I found the following link about a "Recall".

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/02/15/...-brake-issues/

    I contacted SRAM/AVID and they stated that I would have to go through the dealer I purchased this bike through. I emailed Bikes Direct and haven't heard back yet. SRAM/AVID rep said it wasn't a "recall"..so I am a little confused on that. Has anyone experienced this same problem and got a resolution (warranty) going through bikes direct? Thanks

  2. #2
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    I assume you tried to re-center the calipers?

  3. #3
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    Ough yes..but thanks for the clarification.

  4. #4
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    There's a huge thread over on the brake forum about squealing Avids... I had a pair that were loud, I roughed up the pads and reseated them and all good. I would suggest that first, or could try a new disc.

    John

  5. #5
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    Same exact issue on my pro sl 29. I also sanded the pads and rotors and went out and really heated them up and 90% of the noise went away. I contact my local bike shop told them about the issue and they order the replacement rotors and pads under warrenty. Parts should be in this week. I suspect the sanding repair will not last very long. Should be able to get warranty service from any good shop.

  6. #6
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    Squealing noises and Avid go together like peas and carrots. I've had the original Juicy 7's (sounded like a train wreck in progress on a long downhill), Ultimates (with that wonderful brake fluid/magnesium interaction issue) and now CR's.

    Each generation of rotor makes the noises better. The original polygon-wave things were awful, and as they put more metal back in with smaller cut outs on each generation of Clean Sweeps the noises and grabbiness decreases. I just switched to G3's on both bikes and they're much improved. Have not tried the new solid rotors.

    I'm now down to just the turkey gobble occasionally. But the main problem I have is just getting the things aligned, and that's the primary source of noises on a long ride. Every wheelset and fork I've put them on has required some degree of modification in order to get the calipers "straight" with the rotor.

    Stock with no mods, new fluid and seals, you can push the front caliper far enough to the side to get the caliper aligned because there's enough space between the retracted pads. It's actually at an angle relative to the disk but since it's not touching you think it's aligned and go on your happy way. As you squeeze the brakes the disk bends with the pads, resulting in noises on smaller rotors and this horrible pulsing feeling on larger rotors. (My 8" set on my Stumpjumper threw me over the front a few weeks ago in the Shenandoah as the pulsing got progressively worse.) No amount of rotor truing or caliper alignment can fix this, although you'll constantly end up doing both since you're bending the rotor over and over again.

    It gets more fun. As the seals are used and the fluid heats up a little bit and expands (yes, I bleed these properly and frequently, and even bleed off excess on the trail when the fluid is hot to get things better) and that gap decreases, then just getting the retracted pads to not touch the rotor becomes impossible. This leads to constant noises, heated fluid and yet more rotor warping.

    I used to get the brake mounts faced to move the caliper over but with post mounts this won't work. I've found a better solution though - I use a Dremel on the brake caliper holes for the mounting bolts to let it move over another millimeter or so. Now the brakes align and remain aligned perfectly on both 6" and 8" rotors.

    Long reply beyond your question I know, but I thought I'd help you skip to the end of your Avid adventure and tell you what else beyond the rotor design awaits you. I will say that the CR's are a big improvement over my previous Juicy's. (Well, especially since the Ultimates had that other issue...)

  7. #7
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    Too funny, on the last ride my wife's brakes started squealing. Stupid me forgot to make sure those bolts were tight (I did check alignment on the CPS bolts). The bolts that mount the adapter to the frame were lose. I tightened them up, realigned the brakes and they are quiet again.

    Incidentally you need to go through the bike and tighten all the bolts, I found bolts on the rear derailler hanger and front derailler very loose on the bike out of the box.

  8. #8
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    I thought I had read somewhere that organic pads were the solution?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstedman
    I thought I had read somewhere that organic pads were the solution?


    There are a lot of solutions , dependent upon the actual problem . IMHO most Avid problems are rooted in setup .

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    Has anyone had any luck with getting the solid rotor and organic pads under warranty from Bikes Direct? Or I should say going through bikes direct and Avid? I don't feel like spending money on their bad design. The Avid custom service rep was less than helpful and I haven't heard from BD.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjherrman
    Has anyone had any luck with getting the solid rotor and organic pads under warranty from Bikes Direct? Or I should say going through bikes direct and Avid? I don't feel like spending money on their bad design. The Avid custom service rep was less than helpful and I haven't heard from BD.
    I'm interested in this as well. I have Juicy Fives, and so far no squealing but I do get some squeaking from time to time. It's very quiet, but I wonder if the noise is just a hint of what is to come. If BD would get replacement pads/rotors through warranty through Avid that would be fantastic.

  12. #12
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    There are a lot of solutions , dependent upon the actual problem . IMHO most Avid problems are rooted in setup .
    I agree 100%. I had some extreme squawking on my Specialized. I tried a few things before swapping out the disc (on my dime). I have had the noise come back 3 or 4 times since then, every time I hear it starting I do a few really hard stops and it goes away. For whatever reason Avid hydros are sensitive to improper bedding against the disc.

    John

  13. #13
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    I've had this problem with the rear Ultimate on my Pivot but it was solved with a switch to an alligator rotor. The problem I can't get rid of is the inside pistons getting stuck every few months. Disassemble, clean piston bore, reassemble, hope it moves freely, fill, bleed, hope it still moves freely so I can center the caliper... ultimates rule.

  14. #14
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    any rotor

    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    I've had this problem with the rear Ultimate on my Pivot but it was solved with a switch to an alligator rotor.
    I would bet your problem would have been solved by a change to any other rotor as it means you have to rebed them which fixes the problem.

    John

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    Well got a response from BD and they told me they have contacted Avid and (BD) has a set of organic pads in route under waranty to me. However the solid sweep rotors are not covered! That's a little disappointing news from Avid. So I guess I will have to go and purchase a set of solid sweep rotors myself.

    Can someone tell me if there is a cross contamination issue involved. If i put on these organic pads with my current slotted rotors G3 rotors and if this doesn't elevate the problem then switch to the Solid sweep will the pads be contaminated some how? Like I said I am a newbe but learning fast

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjherrman
    Well got a response from BD and they told me they have contacted Avid and (BD) has a set of organic pads in route under waranty to me. However the solid sweep rotors are not covered! That's a little disappointing news from Avid. So I guess I will have to go and purchase a set of solid sweep rotors myself.

    Can someone tell me if there is a cross contamination issue involved. If i put on these organic pads with my current slotted rotors G3 rotors and if this doesn't elevate the problem then switch to the Solid sweep will the pads be contaminated some how? Like I said I am a newbe but learning fast


    You need to clean the rotors with iso-propyl alcohol before using the new pads . Lightly sanding them wouldn't hurt either . If you change rotors , clean the pads .

  17. #17
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    Yea I think I will hit the current rotors with fine grit sandpaper or steel wool and run these new pads and see if it takes care of the problems. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks for the help.

  18. #18
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    Also of course cleaning them prior with rubbing alcohol...THanks for the help

  19. #19
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    same bike, same problem. alligator rotors and bled em well. i was amazed at how much air is suspended in dot 5 fluid. do the syringe pull and release thing lots.

  20. #20
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    Well I put the solid sweep rotors on and changed to organic pads. The rear brake is working fantastic. As per the directions I had to get the solenoid pressed back in so I ruined the original brake pads spreading them with a screw driver..however it seems the fronts won't go back in far enough for the new pads. I am still having a bit of squeaking on the front but 90% better than it was before so I am hopeful. I haven't completely broken the new pads in so I will keep it posted I believe this should resolve the issue.

    FYI I called SRAM/AVID and had them send these parts to a LBS no charge.

  21. #21
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    On my new Fly TI 29, after considerable fiddling with the caliper mounting bolts, mine work well and are relatively quiet. For some reason every time I remove the wheel (either one) I have to re-center the caliper.
    Initially I thought the front brake was a little weak but after several rides the pads finally broke in and now I can easily put myself over the bars if I want to.
    I larned that if I follow Avid's bleeding instructions I couldn't get the lever engagement out far enough for me. A little deductive reasoning while bleeding fixed that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by motovita
    On my new Fly TI 29, after considerable fiddling with the caliper mounting bolts, mine work well and are relatively quiet. For some reason every time I remove the wheel (either one) I have to re-center the caliper.
    Initially I thought the front brake was a little weak but after several rides the pads finally broke in and now I can easily put myself over the bars if I want to.
    I larned that if I follow Avid's bleeding instructions I couldn't get the lever engagement out far enough for me. A little deductive reasoning while bleeding fixed that.



    You likely have to recenter the caliper because the skewer is not tightened to the same level each time the wheel is replaced .

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    You likely have to recenter the caliper because the skewer is not tightened to the same level each time the wheel is replaced .
    Do you mean the tension on the skewer? I try to be consistent but maybe I'll mark the nut so I can be more so.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by motovita
    Do you mean the tension on the skewer? I try to be consistent but maybe I'll mark the nut so I can be more so.

    For myself, when working on my bike that’s on the stand. I would install the front wheel and only tighten it enough just so it wouldn’t fall off. Then, I would remove the bike from the stand and place the bike on the ground. Loosen the front wheel again so the wheel can be seated in the fork properly, then retighten and center the brake caliper.

    Now, anytime after that when I removed the front wheel for whatever reason. I would always follow that same pattern. However, without any caliper readjustment needed as I never had that problem again.

    P.S. I did changed tires a lot. I ran a pair of MTB’s , Slicks and Studded snow tires on that bike.
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  25. #25
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    I have the Fly Ti 29er and have tried everything to solve the Elixir squeal from organic pads, sanding rotors, re-centering calipers, complete flush and bleed and anti-squeal compound on pad backing. Nothing lasted for more than a few hours of riding before the squeal returned.

    Finally I switched to Alligator wind cutter rotors and metallic pads. The squeal has not returned in 6 months. I tried organic pads with the Alligator rotors initially and they did not squeal, but the whole bike vibrated when braking. I think organics are too soft and sink into the large spaces in the rotors as they turn.

    I would recommend throwing the Avid SolidSweep rotors in the garbage where they belong.
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    I would recommend throwing the Avid SolidSweep rotors in the garbage where they belong.
    Send them to me. I'll pay the shipping.

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