Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake

    the landlocked forest is already easy-peasy

    there are few obstacles. some trees that are already down and been ridden over for YEARS I just saw were sawed out, and homogenized.

    WTF ? if you cannot ride it, walk it

    this is fing stupid and how much more are they gonna wipe it down and
    pave the friggin place. for craps sake, it this because some fat basterd cannot get his E-bike over the hump or what ?

    I am completely and utterly flabbergasted.

    mountain bikes MADE that place. it was a dump with very few crappy goat paths, 20 years of hammering by Elves made it a nice place to ride.

    Now some obvious outsiders are making decisions "Oh it's too tough' so they feel they have to remove stuff that other REAL trail builders and trail maintainers basically go there and depend on seeing a certain hump/bump/rock/tight squeeze/tree


    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHRRGH

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    FYI

    so frickin glad this town has the "Other 2 places to ride"on the opposite end of town, which is pure gristle and would take ten thousand tons of explosives to homogenize.

    at least we got that

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    It's a real bummer. People have been dumbing down the trails there for a couple years now, which is sad cause it really is one of the easier places to ride.

  4. #4
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    Was there Monday and saw one of the "improvments". I am not the best bike handler and stuff was cleared out that I have never had a problem with. I was really surprised.

  5. #5
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    That log wasn't even an obstacle. Can't fathom why someone would cut it out. Now it'll just turn into a huge rut

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    Rode LLF this weekend and could not freaking believe it. I applaud people maintaining the trails but cutting the balls off a trail is just unacceptable.

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    I saw two stupid cuts

    the 1/2 log big pine in the pine barrens
    and the fridge-door-trail exit log...which was small...now cut.

    oh and some genius is still trying to make a go-round here and there.
    dammit...and I'll keep closing them off too when I feel up to doing it
    but it's getting real old to fix stuff in there just so sally-cakes can
    not learn how to ride


    PROTIP PEOPLE and all you cubscouts (if that is who is doing it):

    if you have to get off and walk or run an obstacle it doesn't
    mean you are wimping out, that sort of feet on the ground of crap makes you stronger and fitter.
    You should revel in the opportunities that somewhat technical features bring.

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    Yep. Lots seemed to happen this spring for some reason. I see lots of trail sections that have gotten significantly wider. The switchbacks on the Scout trail as it leaves the Rt3/Powerline intersection has some well worn straight line cut-throughs. I'm still REALLY annoyed by the large tree that was removed ~2-3 years ago from the trail parallel to the stone wall on the power line side of the pine barrens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I'm still REALLY annoyed by the large tree that was removed ~2-3 years ago from the trail parallel to the stone wall on the power line side of the pine barrens.
    YES I cried for that one !!!! 5 years I think
    and I believe that was the FIRST wimpification. and on a tree that really was made into a roller, it was far from being hard and a 1 on the technical scale.

    it only looked hard which was what made it fun as heck and worth doing, and bringing new riders to the LLF that was a mandatory visit.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    YES I cried for that one !!!! 5 years I think
    and I believe that was the FIRST wimpification. and on a tree that really was made into a roller, it was far from being hard and a 1 on the technical scale.

    it only looked hard which was what made it fun as heck and worth doing, and bringing new riders to the LLF that was a mandatory visit.
    Has it been that long? I started riding in LLF as a newb in 2010. I cleared it on my first pass(and I'm really not that good). Never understood why it was pulled.

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    You could always come down to Freetown.

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    I haven't seen this yet at Landlocked as I haven't ridden there since winter. But I have come across people at Wompatuck cutting roots and digging up rocks recently. I ran into one guy digging a huge rock out the ground bc it was "screwing up his line."
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  13. #13
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    On the other hand, at least they're doing the work, and not whining about places being too gnar.
    Isn't there a meme or something that says keep mountain biking gnarly or rugged or something like that? I support that idea.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    You could always come down to Freetown.
    that is not the point. in Burlington we have the other place to go..
    [ sawzall and rez. ] plenty of wannabe's die in there... might be the best place in all Mass. [best 'compressed space' imho]...tight twisty gnarly a half dozen ---steep--- climbs, rock, ledge...it's not
    well known because it's too tough for the weekend warrior to tweet about and invite their coffee klatch to go ride. we got that.

    --steepest dirt roads to climb
    --ledge after ledge after ledge
    --wtf am I ? deep in the woods every turn
    --turn turn turn turn turn and turn
    --huck this huck that huck and chuck
    --7 connected areas so to speak with their own feel and terrain
    --and root ride ? these ain't yer grandpappys roots, it's his grandpappys roots

    the point is we have the PR also, and it used to be fine, hidden. now every other turd goes there which is fine...ok so trails get widened a bit and we see skid marks where true mtb'ers don't skid. OK fine ....but then now they are cutting out sacred objects. not fine. whatever...it is beyond control now

    I get trail cleanup. I carry a saw 24x7x365 and cut out new annoying blowdowns. but if a MONSTER comes down and the first person to tackle it decides it's staying and makes something out of it, then that should STAY PUT as it becomes one more ATTRACTION. LLF is becoming a parking lot quite frankly and suck factor is climbing a bit

  15. #15
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    The place is getting crazy neutered now. Ill still ride there because it's close to home and my girlfriend likes it. She can't handle the rez( one if my favorite places)..not yet anyway. Ha

    Where is sawzall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badsneakers View Post
    The place is getting crazy neutered now. Ill still ride there because it's close to home and my girlfriend likes it. She can't handle the rez( one if my favorite places)..not yet anyway. Ha

    Where is sawzall?
    sawmill across the street if u don't know it u must go!

    strava heatmap it to see where the trails snake around 'tiz the shiz of the nat

    Strava Global Heatmap

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    sawmill across the street if u don't know it u must go!

    strava heatmap it to see where the trails snake around 'tiz the shiz of the nat

    Strava Global Heatmap
    I'll have to check it out before I move away from the area in a couple weeks.

    About that log. I'm not an advanced rider, but that thing was easy to hit. I'm headed that way tonight, I'll pay my respects for it somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    sawmill across the street if u don't know it u must go!

    strava heatmap it to see where the trails snake around 'tiz the shiz of the nat

    Strava Global Heatmap
    Awesome. Thanks!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    That is a cool feature. I feel like such a Neanderthal for not knowing it exists.

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    I hate hearing of this, and it's frustrating because the people you need to educate to leave the trails alone... are not the people who are on the MTB websites and FB groups. They're rookies or locals who don't know the sport and the riders. They think they're making it better, but they're not.

    As a former almost-Bostonian, I have to kind of chuckle, though -- I hear of trail sanitization more out of Boston-area trails over any other area, and Boston is so PC, so "let's make it easy and fair for everyone," that you kind of have to laugh at the big picture.

    Anytime you see someone with a saw, say hi and strike up a convo. Maybe you can teach them a good lesson.
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    Bigger issues. 12 acres being lost to townhouses. Lexington land. So sad.

  22. #22
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    ^ that sux.
    That sux worse than watered down trails. Condolences to the loc-dogs that are losing a spot.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Bigger issues. 12 acres being lost to townhouses. Lexington land. So sad.
    Hadn't heard of this. Where?

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    Off of grove st. Got GB FB page? It is just in the beginning stages, still has to go through some review boards, and the town of Burlington is an abutter.

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    Thanks. Sorry, I don' have FB. I saw the blue flags on the trees during our lunch ride. Bummer

  26. #26
    rdb
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    I looked at the Strava heat map and it looks like the trail that starts at Grove street in Lexington, which then forks and crosses into the LLF in two places will disappear. The singletrack in LLF looks like it will be okay, depends on how aggressive the surveyors for the developer are in staking the boundary line with the LLF and how well Burlington town officials keep an eye on things. The houses will be visible from the trails in that corner of the LLF.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb View Post
    I looked at the Strava heat map and it looks like the trail that starts at Grove street in Lexington, which then forks and crosses into the LLF in two places will disappear.
    This trail is on the unhappy side of the flag markers:
    https://www.strava.com/segments/1524882

    Not a huge loss in percentage of trails, but I'll miss it when it's gone

  28. #28
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    Milk crate is close to the line, but within the LLF boundary. I am a little concerned that some guy in his hot tub behind a real expensive home may try to cause an issue with the bike traffic on milk crate. I would hope the developer puts up some sort of screen, fence or trees.

  29. #29
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    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake

    Milk Crate was there before the McMansion. Let the buyer be where.
    That trail goes behind some houses now.


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  30. #30
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    So sad. This was one of my favorite spots in LLF. We would also lose the trail that gives quick access over to the Reservoir trails.

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-tumblr_o6fddx1p3i1rtm6vpo1_1280.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by noreasterbackcountry View Post
    So sad. This was one of my favorite spots in LLF. We would also lose the trail that gives quick access over to the Reservoir trails.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You connect llf with mill pond res? Didn't think they were close enough..

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    I was referring to Bedford Res.

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    Gotcha..

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb View Post
    Milk crate is close to the line, but within the LLF boundary. I am a little concerned that some guy in his hot tub behind a real expensive home may try to cause an issue with the bike traffic on milk crate. I would hope the developer puts up some sort of screen, fence or trees.
    can't happen. Burlington owns the land, ride all of it anytime (until burlington finally sells it to a developer)

    but yeah access is whittling down ...oh well a go-round can be made right along the burlington property line 100% replacement of the pine barrens now on the chopping block

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by noreasterbackcountry View Post
    So sad. This was one of my favorite spots in LLF. We would also lose the trail that gives quick access over to the Reservoir trails.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I rode there for the first time 2 weeks ago, and really enjoyed that piney section. Sad that is will be going away.
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    This is on Lexington land. I'm sure a number of reviews will take place. The town of Burlington is also an abutter. I'm hoping some weight will be given to existing trails with some kind of connecting trails.

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    so we may lose the pine barrens circled in skinny blue,
    and some elves will cut a go-round behind the mud pond
    (red stripe with red/blue arrow pointing to it) so milk
    crate remains intact and won't need it's own new cuts




  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomB15 View Post
    It's a real bummer. People have been dumbing down the trails there for a couple years now, which is sad cause it really is one of the easier places to ride.
    A couple? More like 15.
    How long's Punch 'n Pie been gone? Beginning of the end right there...

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    ooo
    Last edited by Rocks = Friends; 07-06-2017 at 04:11 AM.

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    Rode LLF last night and I was amazed at all the new cheater lines/ go arounds on trails that aren't very difficult to begin with. Kinda sucks.

  41. #41
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    PR > LLF

    Place got too popular with the wrong crowd.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    PR > LLF

    Place got too popular with the wrong crowd.
    so much this

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    What's PR?

    Or is that a stupid question?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangur View Post
    What's PR?

    Or is that a stupid question?
    "Personal record" strava.

  45. #45
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    PR was the landlocked before it became WalMart

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    Quote Originally Posted by badsneakers View Post
    "Personal record" strava.
    PR was way before Strava and bike GPS even existed

  47. #47
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    In this case PR = Private Reserve what LLF (land locked forest) is also called

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    PR was way before Strava and bike GPS even existed
    Cool. Thought you were saying people were choosing their strava times over a slightly technical ride leading to the "neutering" of the place. I wasn't aware it was referred to as private reserve ever.

  49. #49
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    Yeah, it was known as the Private Reserve in it's earlier days, back when maps only existed in riders' heads and you needed to know somebody (or somebody that knew somebody) to get a tour. Internet/Strava killed that scene.

    Ahhhh...the good old days...somebody should revive the BADASS and show these whippersnappers how it used to get done!
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by badsneakers View Post
    Cool. Thought you were saying people were choosing their strava times over a slightly technical ride leading to the "neutering" of the place.
    There's also that.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, it was known as the Private Reserve in it's earlier days, back when maps only existed in riders' heads and you needed to know somebody (or somebody that knew somebody) to get a tour. Internet/Strava killed that scene.

    Ahhhh...the good old days...somebody should revive the BADASS and show these whippersnappers how it used to get done!
    O hellz yeas to this also!

    I dare any of the trail homogenizers to attempt the BADASS or anything close to it

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    Yeah, somebody should try to PR that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    O hellz yeas to this also!

    I dare any of the trail homogenizers to attempt the BADASS or anything close to it

    'Bedford Area Daring All Terrain Sixty-Something'

    don't even show up if you can't eat chainrings, and crap ti-bolts...
    Do tell? Lots of connecting properties?

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    I don't remember much but lots of ouch and trying to hang on.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Do tell? Lots of connecting properties?
    it was pr, some stuff in lex, MM to concord/estabrook, carlisle town hall trails to GB fern loop, back in eastbrook davis corridor, rip back on MM dirt line to bikeway src

    something like that, details are hazy.
    all I remember is sucking the tire in front of me, for hours.

    that as a loop. at top speed. left for dead ride. no prisoners

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    Hmm, left for dead? I did a loop a few years ago, 62 miles 10 towns, 10 hrs. Burl rez, LLF, paint mine, to MM trail to punkatasket hill, connant land-davis corridor- tophet swamp-GB, cranberry bogs, pencil factory to strawberry hill. Lots o pedaling that day.But not at speed.

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    well left for dead but I believe there was a food stop in center carlise or kimballs ice cream place. but left for dead mode before that and after that. that was more like 9 years ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Hmm, left for dead? I did a loop a few years ago, 62 miles 10 towns, 10 hrs. Burl rez, LLF, paint mine, to MM trail to punkatasket hill, connant land-davis corridor- tophet swamp-GB, cranberry bogs, pencil factory to strawberry hill. Lots o pedaling that day.But not at speed.
    You left out the Greenough property.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, it was known as the Private Reserve in it's earlier days, back when maps only existed in riders' heads and you needed to know somebody (or somebody that knew somebody) to get a tour. Internet/Strava killed that scene.

    Ahhhh...the good old days...somebody should revive the BADASS and show these whippersnappers how it used to get done!
    I remember those days and my memory of that is marked by two large wooden jump ramps on one of the fast double track runs. Anyone remember those? I went back looking for them a few years ago and they had long deteriorated and collapsed. I think I saw the remnants off the trail. They were like free ride structures.

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    Those, and teeter totters and balance beams, skinny bridges, some drops and rolls mixed in. Place was a party. I think I might actually have to hit it up sometime this summer; been a long time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocks = Friends View Post
    I remember those days and my memory of that is marked by two large wooden jump ramps on one of the fast double track runs. Anyone remember those? I went back looking for them a few years ago and they had long deteriorated and collapsed. I think I saw the remnants off the trail. They were like free ride structures.
    Yup, I remember those clearly from when I started riding LLF. I'd come flying down that doubletrack, see those, and just shake my head. Well beyond my ability then and well beyond it now!
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    Ok I'm sorry you guys are all sad about this but I am a big chicken who is just starting out and this is exactly the sort of trail I am looking for. I mean I'm not gonna go dig up all the "fun" stuff you guys like but if there is a wimpy boring trail not worth riding that's exactly what I want Gotta check out this place... got any others that are so boring you wouldn't go there? I'm often in Lowell/Burlington/Watertown/Needham but can go anywhere close. Thanks!

  63. #63
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    Great Brook Farm in Carlisle is fairly easy. Stay away from Stone Row and you will be fine. Go to NEMBA | New England Mountain Bike Association for a listing of trails in the area. Use the strava heat map to get an updated map of the trails.

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    The singletrack in Lowell-Dracut can get pretty challenging, but there are also plenty of doubletrack trails and dirt roads to explore there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyanne View Post
    Ok I'm sorry you guys are all sad about this but I am a big chicken who is just starting out and this is exactly the sort of trail I am looking for. I mean I'm not gonna go dig up all the "fun" stuff you guys like but if there is a wimpy boring trail not worth riding that's exactly what I want Gotta check out this place... got any others that are so boring you wouldn't go there? I'm often in Lowell/Burlington/Watertown/Needham but can go anywhere close. Thanks!
    Get down to Cutler Park in Newton/ Needham right off 95 behind Second Avenue; I believe it's right next to PTC. Fun and pretty easy trails.

    West Hill Dam in Uxbridge and Plummer's Landing in Whitinsville, though further away, are also easy rides. Callahan SP in Framingham is beginner-friendly, too.
    Riding bikes rules!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb View Post
    Great Brook Farm in Carlisle is fairly easy. Stay away from Stone Row and you will be fine. Go to NEMBA | New England Mountain Bike Association for a listing of trails in the area. Use the strava heat map to get an updated map of the trails.


    Stone Row...another one... that got homogenized at the top...damn homogenizers

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    oh yeah

    back to LLF homogenizing

    just recently saw a 2 inch sapling that WAS NOT IN ANYONES WAY JUST CLOSE

    now sawed out to a stubby chicken-neck and a new go round around it, now the trail
    is double-wide where there was NO NEED

    sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Stone Row...another one... that got homogenized at the top...damn homogenizers
    The top got some rock work done to help with fall line erosion issues. If that is the section I'm thinking of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    The top got some rock work done to help with fall line erosion issues. If that is the section I'm thinking of.
    yes i know why it was done, it was actually done correctly and years ago....

    though it was a really really good day if you could slog 20 miles to GB, then up stone row, and clean that top knob and not wreck immediately after it. was pretty hard. now a tad easier.

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    I don't really understand what makes people think it's okay to just remove things.
    I took my son to LLF last year for the first time for both of us. He was 14, I was 39 and we both suck and are new.

    If we couldn't make it over something or didn't want to attempt it, we just walked it. With the hope to progress enough to get over it next time.

    It's frustrating that people have enough entitlement to just remove things they can't get past.
    I remember there was a log across one of the trails that we walked over and we both said "can't wait until I have enough balls to try to clear that!" or whatever.

    So sad that people don't want to progress...

  71. #71
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    Removing logs may not always be considered " dumbing down" a trail. Depends on where it is on the trail system, and on what trail. Too hight to get over? On a steep curve or switchback? Blind corner etc. On my local I remove as needed. We have an informal sort of pick up crew to do some general maintenance. The easiest way is to have one organizing body/trail crew/ land manager and to funnel all the work through them. What doesn't work is to have random people just doing what they feel like. I'm always blocking off braids and go arounds.

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    We get dopes making all sorts of sissy braids on our local trails. I'm constantly blocking the go-arounds in an effort to keep things skinny. Recently, I've resorted to blocking with a pile of large limbs (that have naturally fallen to the ground), I then use heavy gauge bailing wire from the local Agway to tie everything together into one huge immovable pile. This seems to prevent idiots from moving stuff. As I've been involved in much of the building and maintenance of these trails, I feel this approach is entirely appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    Get down to Cutler Park in Newton/ Needham right off 95 behind Second Avenue; I believe it's right next to PTC. Fun and pretty easy trails.
    Best advice ever, this is maybe 1/4 mile from my work! Plan for tomorrow: bike to work, then after work hit trails before biking home!

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    I was at LLF on Sunday. I saw on group of guys dragging branches to block a trail, but didn't pay much attention to why they were doing it. I also saw some trail markers and spray paint marks on what looked like a new trail. I tried to follow but felt like I was off trail and decided to walk my bike. I ended up getting on the Minuteman bike path and headed to The Bikeway Source to look at cyclocross bikes. I think the trails around Bedford may be more suited for a cyclocross bike. Has anybody been to Middlesex CC? I was there a few weeks ago and somebody raked the leaves off of a trail making it smooth packed dirt?

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    Middlesex CC?

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    Middesex community college, they have some trails. The Bay circuit trail passes through there.

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    I rode LLF this morning. I had the place to myself.

    A couple things going on, and I haven't been riding in here that long, I'm mostly a roadie. I live really close but never even found the place till I went running in there when I had a hand injury and couldn't bike.

    1) There are lots of other people besides mountain bikers who use the place. Hikers, dog walkers, etc.. could be contributing to cleaning up some of the stuff. A dog walker was the only other person I ran into this morning.

    2) Technical difficulty depends on the bike you have. I have an old NRS.. I can clean about 90% of LLF that I have been down. There is a heavily overgrown trail right along the highway that is very rooty and the trail is heavily angled to one side, that section gives a lot of trouble. But there is an increasing presence of people riding cross bikes, gravel bikes, mixed terrain bikes, etc.. in LLF, I've been in there on my gravel bike on Ride Studio Cafes rides. It's possible some people from that scene are contributing to stuff getting removed, although the folks I've gone on those rides with are pretty technically proficient and I'd be surprised. Quite a few of the people on those rides I've seen clean the more technical sections on cross bikes. Personally I think LLF buffed or not is way more fun on my mountain bike.

    I am trying to ride LLF more before the construction hits.. I don't think I've even rode every trail in there. I can get in there riding out of my house in less than 15 minutes so it's basically my best local spot. It takes me at least a half hour to ride to Great Brook on my mountain bike on the road. I don't like having to take my bike places with the car.

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    ^^^ Loop LLF and Great brook together. LLf to paint mine, head out the end of the MM trail, take the dirt section to the left at the end. Go to monumnet st, left into punkatasket hill. 2 rod road to davis corridor to connant land. Cut in behind Kimbals ice cream and a few roads gets you to the back of tophet swamp, Great Brook. And then loop back. But get ice cream at both Great brook and Kimballs farm. Makes for a good ride.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by benInMA View Post
    There is a heavily overgrown trail right along the highway that is very rooty and the trail is heavily angled to one side, that section gives a lot of trouble.
    1) like that one ? it's called the Hogway. was built to bypass the mudfest parallel to it, which is gnar on it's own, and riddled with the bridges of broken dreams.

    off-camber roots matter. yup some skills needed on that one. it's way more fun when wet. plus it's one-vehicle-only sized

    2) I just trimmed it last night, got rid of the puckies. go ride


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    ^^^ My shins thank you.

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    ^^^ today, legs look like I sort bobcats

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    I was in there again this morning.. I saw evidence of someone removing rocks on the yellow trail that I'm pretty sure wasn't there last week. Very obvious as there are these big gaping clean edge holes, someone pulled the rocks out without cleaning up with a rake or anything afterwards.

    I did the milk crate trail for the first time this morning.. nice. I was doing well this morning, I only had to walk up one little section. I surprised myself.

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    Would it be wrong for me to put rocks back in their holes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landero View Post
    Would it be wrong for me to put rocks back in their holes?
    No. I personally would probably add even MORE rocks, and maybe a sign calling out the chumps removing them.
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    With out seeing said rocks, sometimes due to the really dry summer, rocks will kick out. But these are usually the fist sized ones and will just be on the side of the trail. Once people pull rocks, they won't stay in if replaced.

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    F*** it

    I am officially dropping the landlocked off my ride list, maybe I will go there
    when it is all night riding and the arseclowns don't show up at night

    a) too much homogenization, I mean constantly now. even when there
    were braids and go-rounds closed off, and laminated signed as to why, they get ripped out and opened back up. super duper lame. above extra credit was a snake curve and that has cut throughs. I mean how lame is that ? you take carefully designed switchback series section and ...cut off the switchbacks ? wtf...I want to slap someone hard

    b) too many punk-arse noobs who don't know jack shit about mtb, such as sucking it up and riding hard and not whining, stopping every ten feet clogging up the trail...skidding, all that horseshit


    ---

    c) I am buying a new gas powered hedge trimmer and am going to do
    a massive hiking mission at (the other place) and get -all- the puckies out of it, 14 miles of work I will do if I have to... dragging that trimmer around...
    (starting at sawzall across the street)

    and after the massive cleanup...start laying down the miles.
    this (other place, you know where I mean) is all beef and gnar and self-cleaning of noobs (noobs go once, cry to momma, never come back) it cannot be homogenized without cases of TNT, so ...at least the gnar cannot change.

    so expect 'the other place' to get a severe trimback on the puckies in the next few weeks and it's GO TIME. I will keep it cleaned of blowdowns and thorns, and I quit taking care of the PR/landlocked. it's gotten so far removed from being 'real' it's just depressing and sad.

    see you tough guys and gals on the gristle side of town

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    F*** it


    a) too much homogenization, I mean constantly now. even when there
    were braids and go-rounds closed off, and laminated signed as to why, they get ripped out and opened back up. super duper lame. above extra credit was a snake curve and that has cut throughs. I mean how lame is that ? you take carefully designed switchback series section and ...cut off the switchbacks ? wtf...I want to slap someone hard
    I'm with you. Are you referring to the switchbacks on the scout trail as it leaves the power lines (both ends, near the parking and Rt3)? If so, I'm equally pissed. The rt 3 side I've been playing a battle of wills with over the past ~6 weeks. Every week I'd pile branches/logs to block the cutoff and then they'd get removed over the weekend. Once the little bishes had the nerve to use the logs to block the ACTUAL trail in an attempt to force the cut through. Last weekend they did a pretty good job hauling off all the logs instead of just moving them aside. A+ effort for people that are too lazy to bike an extra 20 ft. Unfortunately for them, a forest isn't usually lacking in dead fall so I happily stacked it back up again.

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    yes scout trail , and extra credit taps into it a bit lower

    and yeah OK + you must be the other person trying to close it off, I do that too when I have time or was doing a 'fart around ride' a I have to apologize I cannot help anymore I've gone mad....and sawmill/mill pond is gonna be me primary stomping ground. it's overgrown again so in next two weeks my saw will be ablaze so I don't bleed out my shins.

    in LLF
    2 weeks ago I spent 1 whole hour closing it down with tons of deadfall lumber.
    in 4 days all my work was gone and the cut throughs opened up anew

    then 5 days later I ran into the crowd of clueless 20-30 year olds who
    go there and ruin things by skidding, cloggin intersections, being twinks...
    acting like they own the place and just bro-tating around and I see how
    this place is becoming ultra-crap.

    I am not talking about the Nemba ride clans or bike shop rides
    of beginner, medium, and hard rides all them people KNOW HOW TO MTB

    I am talking the cross-fit crowd who jump on bikes and think they are cyclists but can't leave stuff alone

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    I was in LLF a few weeks ago and happened upon an area in the south east corner next to rt. 3 with some bridges that looked to be super fun at one point. I am quite sure this was off of the yellow loop main trail. What's the deal with fixing some of these up? Are there organized trail building days or anyone with tools is welcome?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdapos View Post
    I was in LLF a few weeks ago and happened upon an area in the south east corner next to rt. 3 with some bridges that looked to be super fun at one point. I am quite sure this was off of the yellow loop main trail. What's the deal with fixing some of these up? Are there organized trail building days or anyone with tools is welcome?
    no one is fixing those bridges
    those are the 'bridges of broken dreams'

    it used to be the only way round the south east side of swamp
    at one point it was awesome....

    Hogway was built to bypass it east,
    and new Nemba bridge was built to bypass it west

    so, the elves and organizers decided to go round that mess....


    if you want be an elf and build it out again, go nuts.

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    I saw the contested area you guys are talking about this weekend. The way it was yesterday morning there was a ton of new brush and logs put in to keep you on the yellow trail when you go through the switchbacks... I am really confused as to which way was ever the "correct" way to go through there. It's changed enough in the time I've been riding in there I don't know what is correct. I want to say the area that got blocked off allowed you to go onto the trail marked in red? The way I am used to riding it I came to a dead end due to the blocked off stuff and had to turn around, at which point I realized I would be staying on the yellow trail if I followed the trail as it was configured yesterday.

    I think my confusion is just if you do want to take the red trail there it gets a little confusing to figure out the correct way. I've definitely taken the cut through before.. that section needs work period or the cutoff is not going to go away... it needs to be clear how someone would enter the woods there and not take the yellow trail if they don't have enough time to ride it.

    I didn't touch anything there, I did cleanup blowdown deeper in the forest.. mostly just small sticks and pine branch blowdown. The storm this weekend was pretty serious! Stuff that was too small to become a "feature" to jump/ride over but had plenty of sharp things to impale your leg on or break your chain.

    Found the exit of LLF over on Rt. 62 yesterday morning... I am psyched. That means I can ride in there in about 11 minutes from my office (I work over by the mall) as opposed to about 20 minutes to get to the grove street entrance by the paint mine.

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    this is the correct way approximation

    fair game is the oldest and original trail
    scout and it's switchbacks came next

    later, extra credit tapped into scout
    and then the red lines are the area clowns are cutting through the switchbacks

    NOTE: there are NO straight lines in that area, you ride the twisty switchbacks
    that is the whole intent...ride/rail the corners. dingledorfs are cutting them


    the red stuff is where arsehats are blowing the switchbacks


    black blob at bottom left is rt3 terminating to 95
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-untitled.png  

    Last edited by 127.0.0.1; 07-26-2016 at 01:21 PM.

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    If I understand you image correctly then yesterday the entrance to scout was blocked off.

    Could be I am still mistaking the cut through for the correct entrance though. If that's the case the correct entrance is hard to find.

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    I opted for the road bike today, but will head out tomorrow and take a picture. There really isn't an "entrance" to scout. You just enter from the power lines, take the switchbacks, and at the last corner you go straight for Extra Credit or bear left for Scout. If it wasn't blatantly obvious, then I'm guessing the weekend warriors took all the deadfall and blocked the legit trail like last time.

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    basically you come off the powerlines with rt3 in your sights,
    bang a left and put the rock wall on your right, go into some tight smooth switchbacks

    if you stay on power lines past the wall and go left (and hang off the cliff)
    that one is fair game straight down the hill parallel to rt3

    stay on the switchbacks, you are on scout...will see extra credit on your right as a straight shot after about 4 switchback corners...extracredit which is headed north and downhill, if you don't take extracredit keep peeling left and that continues scout to one more switchback turn right and that is scout


    anyway

    me, and this


    are hittin the other side of town next two weeks that is all I am doing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by benInMA View Post
    If I understand you image correctly then yesterday the entrance to scout was blocked off.

    Could be I am still mistaking the cut through for the correct entrance though. If that's the case the correct entrance is hard to find.
    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I opted for the road bike today, but will head out tomorrow and take a picture. There really isn't an "entrance" to scout. You just enter from the power lines, take the switchbacks, and at the last corner you go straight for Extra Credit or bear left for Scout. If it wasn't blatantly obvious, then I'm guessing the weekend warriors took all the deadfall and blocked the legit trail like last time.
    Yep. The weekend warriors routed it back AGAIN. I've been blocking this cut through EVERY week all year. I also officially give up. Eff 'em. I can't even slow the destruction of this place.

    Attachment 1084277
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-extra-credit.jpg  


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    And since I was out there, I thought I'd document some of the thorough sanitization of this place. These are pics are only from the short stretch of the scout trail heading from the stone wall up to the power lines.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-rock.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-power-lines.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-new-scout-trail-3.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-new-scout-trail-2.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-new-scout-trail-1.jpg  


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    This is the descent heading Northwest, down into the swamp. This was abandoned years ago and rerouted into the switchbacks to avoid erosion. The original trail comes alive again in the winter often since it is more fun for the skiers, but they're obviously not causing erosion. I always line some deadfall across it come spring and it's not an issue. Not this year. I've blocked it off numerous times. Last week I blocked it off again with A+ effort. I had ~20ft long pieces of trees/limbs stuck up in the crotch of the live trees at ~6ft off the ground with another from the opposite side to form a big X right in the middle of the trail. Lots of dead fall dragged across it randombly. A good pile of deadfall as a berm on the correct trail. This morning? All cleared up!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-swamp-decent.jpg  


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    I think this one might have been last year, but I'm still so aggravated by it that it deserves an honorable mention. White door. The one technical "climb" in this place (it's maybe 8 ft of elevation change?) and it was too much for somebody, so out comes the saw.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-white-door.jpg  


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    Man, those pics make me sad.

    You guys should rock a couple game (shame) cameras.
    Get some good shots of the d-bags doing the sanitizing, then post them far and wide.
    Short money; we've got a few at our pumptrack.
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    I know you need to direct your anger in a direction but i wouldn't blame new riders and weekend warriors. I have been both of those and what kept me into the sport was challenging terrain. In particular, as a weekend warrior, i would want to get in the best ride as possible on the rare occasion i could ride. Best being awesome and challenging terrain.

    I would assume that car_nut's first pic was done by hikers. Because i can picture a hiker/s walking up and thinking "why walk all the way over there and walk all the way back to get to what is 4 feet in front of me?"

    I really don't think the thought process of adult new riders is to move stuff on trails. I would bet that it is more experienced riders trying to go faster, or road bikers looking for a smoother experience. Maybe teenagers creating a more direct route to the good stuff where they will just hang out and session.

    What is unfortunate is that most of the "damage" is done by people unaware and making it worse. In most of Car_nuts pics the go around looks like the proper path, and the original path looks like a harder alternative route.

    Education and dropping blocks are all that can be done i think. Thankfully there are places to ride that are so tech that unskilled riders have to walk away. I have never been to LLF but it looks like an easier place to ride, and those are going to be the ones that get braided to no end.

    Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    I know you need to direct your anger in a direction but i wouldn't blame new riders and weekend warriors. I have been both of those and what kept me into the sport was challenging terrain. In particular, as a weekend warrior, i would want to get in the best ride as possible on the rare occasion i could ride. Best being awesome and challenging terrain.
    I hear what you're saying and I'm usually not one to assume the worst in people. In this case though, I've witnessed the very quick ersosion of behavior at LLF personally. I've ridden here weekly since I started 7 years ago. For ~5 of those seasons LLF actually improved every year. Cut throughs were eliminated, eroding trails repaired/rerouted, new trails added. This year alone has undone most of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    I would assume that car_nut's first pic was done by hikers. Because i can picture a hiker/s walking up and thinking "why walk all the way over there and walk all the way back to get to what is 4 feet in front of me?"
    Sadly, I can conclusively say "No". This cut through appeared the tail end of last year. There was never any deadfall acting as a curb. Bike traffic creates an obvious looking trail and that's what formed. Logs were added to make it visually obvious where the trail was supposed to go. A single log to act as a trail marker that a hike wouldn't even think about walking over. This year, the logs started getting removed every weekend. I'd add them back plus a couple extra every week. Not little pieces, but full dead trees that I could barely drag myself. I'd stack ~4 of those plus ~10 odd pieces of smaller dead fall. If it was a hiker, they could have easily walked around the pile in between the trees that would have presented a quick short cut. Instead, the pile was removed. EVERY. WEEK. Then, ~3 weeks ago they took all the dead fall and arranged it across the ACTUAL trail. Not pushed to the side as shown in my pic, but scattered across ~10 ft of trail. This is being done by bikers and ONLY on weekends.

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    I really don't think the thought process of adult new riders is to move stuff on trails. I would bet that it is more experienced riders trying to go faster, or road bikers looking for a smoother experience. Maybe teenagers creating a more direct route to the good stuff where they will just hang out and session.
    I may be jumping to conclusions on this one(sorry, I know I said I don't usually do that), but these short cuts always appear in places that are significant time savers to Strav*******s. That may just be a coincedence.

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    What is unfortunate is that most of the "damage" is done by people unaware and making it worse. In most of Car_nuts pics the go around looks like the proper path, and the original path looks like a harder alternative route.
    Yes, those braid and bypasses have now become the permanent default trail and is irreversible. The pic I labeled "New braid started" is how all of these started. Which is why it's so important to arrange deadfall as needed to make sure the real trail is followed before the erosion sets in and makes it permanent. But these problems didn't occur over long periods of time as a result of trail neglect. This is all happening deliberately and over a single season.

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    Education and dropping blocks are all that can be done i think. Thankfully there are places to ride that are so tech that unskilled riders have to walk away. I have never been to LLF but it looks like an easier place to ride, and those are going to be the ones that get braided to no end.

    Good luck.
    Agreed. I just have a personal investment in it since it's so close to work that I ride it weekly. It certainly isn't technical, but it used to be fun single track which is much nicer than a road ride or trainer. If it all becomes straight, blown out, near double track, that won't be the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    Thankfully there are places to ride that are so tech that unskilled riders have to walk away.
    Good luck.
    yes

    there is
    and in the same town too

    -root ride from hell
    -scary drops
    -climbs impossible (but possible 'cuz I seen it done)
    -grunt after grunt after grunt no breaks no resting
    -sand
    -chunder

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    yes

    there is
    and in the same town too

    -root ride from hell
    -scary drops
    -climbs impossible (but possible 'cuz I seen it done)
    -grunt after grunt after grunt no breaks no resting
    -sand
    -chunder
    I ride the other place frequently and it kills me everytime and that's not even including hitting the rode to get to the other section..but I'm a bit if a noob. I greatly appreciate the work done on the trail at the bottom of the embankment. Its riding beautifully.

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    I tend to like more technical places with big natural features. I am however terrified of drops. I need to get better at them. The places i like usually have rocks piled up so you can safely roll down a feature. I like this because i can get into a flow of trusting the trail work and going faster, instead of stopping at the peak of every feature to make sure it is safe. Other than removing deadfall or maybe a babyhead that was kicked into a dangerous place, i don't touch anything. The reason i bring this up is i have wondered while riding, is the stacked rock placement trail homogenization, or the original trail? How does one distinguish?

    It's a little side bar of the topic here, but it is this thread that has me wondering when i'm out weekend warrior'ing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    How does one distinguish?
    Be there when the trail is built, or ride with/talk to someone in the know.
    Otherwise, best rule of thumb is leave shit alone unless it's obviously blowdown or trash.
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    I don't know why i even bothered posting my last. I'm just bored. I don't do any rogue trail maintenance other than removing obvious blowdown. I have wondered if the natural man made stuff i ride is pre-homogenized and the next time i ride through it will be gone and i'm up for an unpleasant surprise. Nothing more than something that runs through my head.

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    Would it be bad to dig out some of the cut throughs? It seems like it would be much more difficult for someone to try and fill holes back in with dirt, especially if its been scattered about. Plus even if they did it would no longer be packed down enough to ride over easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    I tend to like more technical places with big natural features. I am however terrified of drops. I need to get better at them. The places i like usually have rocks piled up so you can safely roll down a feature. I like this because i can get into a flow of trusting the trail work and going faster, instead of stopping at the peak of every feature to make sure it is safe. Other than removing deadfall or maybe a babyhead that was kicked into a dangerous place, i don't touch anything. The reason i bring this up is i have wondered while riding, is the stacked rock placement trail homogenization, or the original trail? How does one distinguish?

    It's a little side bar of the topic here, but it is this thread that has me wondering when i'm out weekend warrior'ing.
    when I say scary drops I don't mean jumps. I do not jump. but I ride down
    steep no-fall-zone brakes-won't-save-you stuff that sends you over the bars if you fart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrglenni View Post
    Would it be bad to dig out some of the cut throughs? It seems like it would be much more difficult for someone to try and fill holes back in with dirt, especially if its been scattered about. Plus even if they did it would no longer be packed down enough to ride over easily.
    you can't just start digging holes now... come on that is ridiculous
    that is booby trapping and no shit, the State Police would be on your arse
    I'd be the first one to phone them that traps are being set

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    I don't know why i even bothered posting my last. I'm just bored. I don't do any rogue trail maintenance other than removing obvious blowdown. I have wondered if the natural man made stuff i ride is pre-homogenized and the next time i ride through it will be gone and i'm up for an unpleasant surprise. Nothing more than something that runs through my head.
    You've always gotta be prepared for that type of stuff; trails can change from one day to the next for many reasons. Never assume that something that was there last time you rode is going to be there every time. Look before you leap!
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    Lol I don't mean booby trap like Indiana Jones style with snakes and spikes at the bottom and covered over with leaves so you wont notice, I just mean a sizeable gap that makes the bypass less appealing than the original trail. Jeesh man, I'm not that offended by what people are doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrglenni View Post
    Lol I don't mean booby trap like Indiana Jones style with snakes and spikes at the bottom and covered over with leaves so you wont notice, I just mean a sizeable gap that makes the bypass less appealing than the original trail. Jeesh man, I'm not that offended by what people are doing
    whatever don't dig holes that are not there already
    it makes absolutely no sense to even suggest that

    this is town of burlington land and a watershed. trails are one thing
    holes for no reason is another thing entirely. don't even know how anyone
    can come up with that unless you are trolling

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    Ok... guess I am just going to peace out of this conversation. It was an honest suggestion that I didn't know if there would be any downside to. Just thinking it might be a more permanent solution than trying to block trails with logs and branches that simply get moved out of the way again. Something tells me you are the type that just likes to complain for the sake of complaining...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrglenni View Post
    Ok... guess I am just going to peace out of this conversation. It was an honest suggestion that I didn't know if there would be any downside to. Just thinking it might be a more permanent solution than trying to block trails with logs and branches that simply get moved out of the way again. Something tells me you are the type that just likes to complain for the sake of complaining...
    no

    I don't complain for the sake of complaining

    you posted a top ten stupid suggestion and I am calling you out

    I been taking care of that scratch of dump called the landlocked for 25 friggin years straight...along with some others who put in more work than I do....when it comes to that 250 acre patch, I know a little bit about it, and have thousands of miles laid down in there

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    not about LLF

    blasted the first 100 yards of 'Harbor Light' last night with the trimmers

    95 degrees...faded fast...
    I have a long way to go but it's gonna be sweet when I am done

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    I'm sure I can't keep pace with you pedaling but I can wield some clippers and a hand saw if you want a hand sometime.

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    I have to admit some car nuts pictures I'm not sure which path I'd take. Anyone who hasn't been riding long enough is going to think the braids are the correct path in some of those cases.

    Moving the logs that route to the correct path is crazy, so is cutting a tree that is in the middle of the trail, I'd never do any of those things. But one of those examples looks like a pretty obvious trail and then a big rock off trail to the left, I would probably never elect to just go over the rock instead of riding in the obvious trail. Some people have the mentality to go jump and play on rocks and others want to just pick the smoothest/fastest line. Years of riding hardtail and never having anything with > 80mm of travel in the fork have seemingly trained me to avoid hitting a big rock that doesn't block my path. If the rock was obviously in the center of the path and bisected the whole path then I would ride over it. To be fair that rock does look pretty good, no sharp edges and plenty of smooth runout after you go over it. Some of these trail features are just not clear to those of us who are new to the area. A lot of the braided and bisected areas are real confusing. Most of those pics are obvious I guess though and I know I'm not riding the braid.. some of them I don't recognize though.

    When I ride in LLF I frequently come to places where I actually stop and try to figure out where the correct path is... it is a pretty confusing mess. The other place I ride a fair amount is Great Brook, and I never really stop in Great Brook confused about what the correct path is.

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    I'd also be happy to help in area trail maintenance anytime, just lmk when and where. We are planning on doing some building this weekend in LLF...

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    building what in LLF? if you mean bridges of broken dreams please..ummm... that section with it's decayed bridges is an example of....a challenge section now
    and hogway was built to go round it and also nemba bridge...


    go crazy though, build what you want. it used to be an elevated bridge 2.5 feet off the ground made of pingpong tables, ballsacks, and nails

    but what really needs to be rebuilt in there is the
    steep entrance/exit bridge that was at the end of 'frigerator door trail
    and led to the mike crate trail/skinny trail side. that bridge fell apart and it's all water for 6 months (dry as a bone now) you want superhero status, rebuild that puppy

    anyhow for trail maintenance... thanks but I work solo. I don't want to be responsible for anyone getting hurt or accidentally bouncing a saw off someone or dropping a tree on them or anything else. solo I can size things up and use physics and leverage to get anything accomplished. that and I can use sharps and not worry about anyone else.

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    The bridges of broken dreams section is something I would like to get re-built. I appreciate and enjoy the nemba bridge and hogway, but I think some of those old bridges can be repaired/replaced relatively easy. When I was learning my way around LLF, I ended up down there and it wasn't a challenge, it was just unsafe, as few, if any, of the bridges are ridable. My goal is to bring it out of unsafe status and back up to challenge status.

    Other short term goals include clearing a large tree that fell on the trail leading into the bridges of broken dreams/hogway split right before the field and the refrigerator door entrance/exit bridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    not about LLF

    blasted the first 100 yards of 'Harbor Light' last night with the trimmers

    95 degrees...faded fast...
    I have a long way to go but it's gonna be sweet when I am done
    Just realized I never said it, but many thanks to you (...and many others) for putting your time and sweat into the trails. I haven't made it over there in a while, but really enjoyed it when I did. Thank you!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdapos View Post
    The bridges of broken dreams section is something I would like to get re-built. I appreciate and enjoy the nemba bridge and hogway, but I think some of those old bridges can be repaired/replaced relatively easy. When I was learning my way around LLF, I ended up down there and it wasn't a challenge, it was just unsafe, as few, if any, of the bridges are ridable. My goal is to bring it out of unsafe status and back up to challenge status.

    Other short term goals include clearing a large tree that fell on the trail leading into the bridges of broken dreams/hogway split right before the field and the refrigerator door entrance/exit bridge.
    Might want to run your plan by GB Nemba before just doing stuff yourself. They are the official partner to do work there along with Friends of the Land Locked Forest.

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    Thanks for the tip, will do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdapos View Post
    Thanks for the tip, will do!
    They actually have a chapter meeting at JRA tonight.

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    Just want you all to know that we're aware of (and hugely frustrated by) the recent surge in cheater lines, trail short-cuts, and redundant trail creations. Many of us ride LLF frequently and have been deeply involved in its upkeep and construction. It's important that LLF has become a popular spot (while that may not be pleasing to some) since it is still at risk of development by the town of Burlington since they have not elected to give it conservation or protected open-space status yet.

    This is also complicated by the fact that both GBNEMBA and the Friends of the LLF aren't the property owners - we're volunteer stewardship organizations. The owner is the town of Burlington and the direct authority would be their Board of Selectmen.

    That said, there is clearly a subset of trail users who either have no idea that what they are doing is wrong or are willfully intent on damaging the trails there. The cheater lines that I am seeing crop up seem most likely to be riders, perhaps Strava-[insert favorite euphemism], trying to shave time on the KOM/QOM's. Bad. (I'd put that in to the cheating category since you're not riding the trail that set the time record on). Many of these lines also bypass specifically designed trail sustainability features like drainage or armoring. Or, as is the case in may places in NE, the trail is built over a giant pile of glacial rocks which pop up. Learn to find the smooth line through & over them, not around. If you can't ride it, practice it until you can.

    The flip side to that is that it's easy to forget that we all started out as new riders and we do need to have trail inventory that allows people to learn on without breaking their teeth. Not every trail we design and build is going to be highly technical - but where we can, we will try to add appropriate skills features.

    Some of the damage, particularly some of the rogue/redundant trails seem to be from some determined walking users. It's not clear why some of the very redundant trails are being continuously re-opened. There are a couple of trails that appear to be short cuts, which perhaps if you're on foot are allowing a reasonable hiking loop. We can evaluate the not-redundant ones and if they make sense for the walking user population, then can be kept. But the really redundant ones need to just stop being re-opened.

    Bottom line, if you're not involved in the upkeep, design and maintenance of any trail, you have no business making arbitrary changes to it. Rule #1 in any case: get permission. Equally important, get involved and help out.

    Please help spread the word to anyone you know using LLF both about not altering the trails and keeping an eye out if you see someone doing it. Politely ask them to stop. None of us have enforcement authority nor should any of us attempt to physically intervene. Stay safe.

    Last, we've scheduled our next trail work day to be at LLF, on Saturday 8/20/2016. 8:30a-12:30p. We'll be focusing on a bunch of these issues. If you want to help out, show up. We'll be meeting at the powerlines.

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    Well, it looks like the trail vandals have really stepped up their game. I unfortunately haven't been able to ride much, but I don't remember seeing anything in these latest pictures two weeks ago. There's no way I'll believe this is being done by anyone other than cyclists. Cutting trees to smooth a corner isn't something a hiker is going to undertake. Furthermore, their interest in cutting terrible rogue trails really needs to be stopped. A straight fall line into a swamp is going to be an erosion nightmare. These people are destroying the place at an alarming rate.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-bridge.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-rock-rogue.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-3.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-death-spike.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-bypass.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-scout-wall-intersection.jpg  


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    Oh wow. That is crazy. That is some next level type of trail vandalism. I'm surprised no one has seen this person or people in the act.

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    this goes way beyond the occasional go round and block with deadfall game...

    damn crossfit crowd..idiots...no clue dickless wonders

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    Game cameras.
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    What does crossfit have to do with anything??

    I 2nd the game cameras. Excellent idea. They go for pretty cheap on Amazon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomB15 View Post
    What does crossfit have to do with anything??

    I 2nd the game cameras. Excellent idea. They go for pretty cheap on Amazon.
    coming up with generic terms for half-way part-time idiot mtb'ers, who make these shortcuts for whatever reason. a generic term for doing something wrong


    for f**ks sake you'd think they could at least cut to ground level. it truly shows
    the ultra-stupidity and cluelessness of whomever is doing it.

    I think some kids are doing it with a borrowed ice hatchet the way it looks

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    I don't use strava, but I wonder if there's a way to look at the high scores or whatever they're called and see if any of the stats look suspicious. It's crazy to me that people would do this. Roots, close trees, and other similar trail features are what keep mountain biking exciting. I don't understand why they don't just ride road if they want straight rolling smoothness...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I think some kids are doing it with a borrowed ice hatchet the way it looks
    I'm leaning this way now too. I originally thought it to be Stravatards, but I haven't seen anything pop up on these segments with the most egregious short cuts. I'm now thinking it's just kids trying to maintain speed on corners and opening up straight downhill sections. I did enough stupid carp as a kid that I can forgive them, but motivated kids have far more free time and energy than I. They need to be found and educated so as to end this. Best case, we can teach them the right way to maintain trails and harnes their energy/enthusiasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverat View Post
    I don't us strava, but I wonder if there's a way to look at the high scores or whatever they're called and see if any of the stats look suspicious. It's crazy to me that people would do this. Roots, close trees, and other similar trail features are what keep mountain biking exciting. I don't understand why they don't just ride road if they want straight rolling smooth trails..
    Yep, already did that this morning. The bridge bypass is the one that should be easiest to spot, and I didn't see anything that looked out of line. Like I said above, I'm leaning more towards this being kids than arsehat adults. Which honestly makes me feel better, but they still need to be educated and redirected towards positive improvements.

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    I'm not sure why anyone would bother with any of this for Strava.. most of the Strava segments in LLF have horrible leaderboards already due to people riding with smartphones that get horrible cell phone reception in the woods.

    I was curious how the KOMs were SO damn fast in there. Quite a few of the KOMs look like the person was using a GPS that only got one data point on the entire segments so Strava takes a WAG goes and comes up with something ridiculous that makes it look like they're going insanely fast. e.x. there is one I'm thinking of, I think it takes me about 30 seconds, the KOM is 4 seconds which comes out to about 45mph. That segment has a couple of switchbacks and is through dense trees, even if you went straight down the hill bypassing the trail completely 45mph seems impossible to believe. When you look at the leader on the GPS track it says their max speed was 8mph but the average was 45mph because there is only one or two data points. By the time you go down 10 pages in the results you are seeing tracks with 10 data points and the average speed is in the 8-12mph and matches up with the max speed.

    Others the GPS track in Strava is so bad it doesn't look like the person rode the whole trail. If the tracks are that bad it's pointless to try and pursue getting the KOM.

    I did see a couple guys bypassing all the uphill switchbacks on the yellow trail a week or two ago. (The south side part of the yellow trail, not the side near the highway) They were pushing their bikes straight uphill bushwhacking to avoid having to ride the switchbacks up the hill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benInMA View Post
    it's pointless to try and pursue getting the KOM.

    This applies to every trail.

    Wanna race, go race for real.
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    For sure.. Strava could start by rejecting any segment that has an average speed higher than the maximum speed. That never goes wrong in a real race.

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    I quit riding and just hack my Strava numbers.

    Much more rewarding.

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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Hello sports fans! This week's trail report is brought to you by Bud Light and Stihl. Remember, if you can't turn, just go straight!

    I can report the deforestation is continuing at a blistering pace. I've stopped taking pictures of everything that happens over the week as that'll turn my ride into more of a photo journalist hike. Instead, I'll just report this week's highlights:
    - One new rogue trail that is designed to avoid those nasty bumps caused by rocks/roots. I'm sure this will be a yearly addition as the new rogue trail is sure to be a river of erosion next spring.
    - One jaw dropping trail widening as apparently someone has taken the new wide bar idea to the point where they can't negotiate a STRAIGHT DOWN HILL DOUBLE TRACK SECTION!!!! Seriously people, you shouldn't be operating something with the pointy edges of a saw if you couldn't ride this without removing those trees.

    Ugh
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-camber.jpg  

    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-jump.jpg  


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    OK

    OMFG

    that last picture

    zero reason to cut those trees.

    absolutely zero. this was double-track going on triple track
    in the first place. I am ...I just...don't know what to say or think

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    OK

    OMFG

    that last picture

    zero reason to cut those trees.

    absolutely zero. this was double-track going on triple track
    in the first place. I am ...I just...don't know what to say or think
    Yep. I wasn't even looking around as I pedaled up that stretch. I happened to glance over and saw the fresh tree lying there and had to do a double take. I truly can't understand why someone would cut those down. You could drive a Jeep through there as it was. Actually, you could literally drive a Camry through there.

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    ok checked it out last night

    there are WAY more tress cut off 1 foot above ground, in places
    that absolutely without any doubt never needed any trimming,
    all over the PR, especially on the trail car_nut made a picture of.

    I counted 12 fresh chicken-neck stumps all 12 or 18 inches high along the
    side of the trail.

    I cannot wrap my head around this whatsoever.


    WHAT IS GOING ON IN THERE ??? HOLY BALLS

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    I counted 12 fresh chicken-neck stumps all 12 or 18 inches high along the
    side of the trail.

    I cannot wrap my head around this whatsoever.


    WHAT IS GOING ON IN THERE ??? HOLY BALLS
    I rode there again this morning. Those cuts on the jump trail? I was too fixated on the ones I took pictures of. THEY CUT TREES ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE TOO!!!! The trail is now ~16 ft wide. WTF?????

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    How would trees like that be cut without noticing? People are sneaking in there and cutting at night? Can you tell if it was done with a saw or gas powered?

    That is some wild stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    How would trees like that be cut without noticing? People are sneaking in there and cutting at night? Can you tell if it was done with a saw or gas powered?

    That is some wild stuff.
    A lot of it is poorly cut, at an angle, and then snapped off once 2/3rds of the way through. I'd guess hand cut. The destruction seems limited to the weekend. I'll spend the whole week adding dead fall to block the mess, and on Monday the dead fall is gone and another rogue trail is added.

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    I bet it is a specific few individuals going at it then. Some rowdy teenagers with flat pedals and skinny jeans.

  148. #148
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    Let the homogenizers try to find THIS top secret stash

    TOP SECRET
    and super close to the PR,
    but them lame homogenizers
    couldn't handle this, let alone find it.

    So, to hell with PR worries let it get paved...I got me singletrack and roots and my hardtail and...I'll just keep my mouth shut about where

    I can loop this on my PR runs to put my sanity back that all is right with the MTB world and un-softened trails still exist.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-capture4.jpg  

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    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-capture1.jpg  


  149. #149
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    Those old trees have to go. And some of those rocks look dangerously close to the trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian View Post
    Those old trees have to go. And some of those rocks look dangerously close to the trail.
    Agreed. I have a few bags of quikcrete we could use to pave over those roots.

  151. #151
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    Let see how long this lasts
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  152. #152
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    GAME CAMERA!!!!!!

    Seriously!
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  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    GAME CAMERA!!!!!!

    Seriously!
    I'm on the fence and ready to drop the $100 for one. The acts are repeatable enough that I'm certain I can catch them on the weekend. But then what? I'd have to put cameras at all the parking lots in order to tie them to an identity (license plate). If they ride in, then what? Several of the neighboring homes have developed paths to them.

    I'm ready and willing to do it, but I'm having trouble coming up with an end game that isn't just me being even more frustrated and $100 lighter.

  154. #154
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    If it helps justify the outlay, IME, you'll always find uses for it, either security or even actually just getting pics of wildlife. Handy little units. I even keep a couple around the yard.
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    Everything is time stamped, if you notice a trend on when they are back there you can head in there and try to catch them in the act and educate them on why they can't do what they are doing. The different rogue trails are appalling these days, and many of the cuts make 0 sense. It could be kids trying to have fun and try their hand at trail building, it could be adults trying to get faster Strava times. In either case, telling them why what they are doing is wrong is more helpful than trying to "get them in trouble" with identification, etc.

  156. #156
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    Uh huh. At the least, you would get a clear idea of exactly who these clowns are.
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  157. #157
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    Just my $.02; the Scarecrow should be pointing to the left.

    I think the kids will relate to that.

  158. #158
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    how about both ?

    Last edited by 127.0.0.1; 09-14-2016 at 05:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    Let see how long this lasts
    Didn't get a pic since I was with a group, but someone tore his head off

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    Now you know why certain sections of 'Nam have stone walls lining them. It was the only thing that worked. It's sad to think of how much new/fun stuff could have been constructed instead of wasting time building stone walls back when I was involved.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    Didn't get a pic since I was with a group, but someone tore his head off
    Animals.

  162. #162
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    someone put his head on a stick
    and gave him a buddy
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    Last edited by 127.0.0.1; 09-21-2016 at 12:49 PM.

  163. #163
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    Hey kids, see how much fun following the rules can be?

  164. #164
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    Things may be escalating to sabotage

    Location: just after the left turn (90*, soft, dark brown, in a stand of short white pines) at the bottom of the straightaway doubletrack that descends from the gasline to the three-way intersection that either takes you to the clearing near route 3, or down to a rock wall crossing then the two wooden bridges up to the switchback climb towards the powerlines, or back the way you came to the gasline.

    What: a 3" pine tree, several feet off the side of the trail, intentionally sawn 3/4 of the way through at the base, and tilted across the trail at head height.

    When: Thursday, 9/22, approx. 6:00 PM.


    There's no way this was an accident. I have pics, but MTBR can't handle the photos from my phone. That tree would not have been leaning if it hadn't been for the cut some vandal made. It was clearly made with a saw. The tree was healthy - no reason to cut it down. Absolutely no reason to leave it in the trail.

    Fortunately, i was able to wrench the thing free and dragged it off to the side.

    Be careful out there, everyone. Especially at night.
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  165. #165
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    Someone is also dumping piles of glass on the trails at LLF. My tires laugh at it but if I ever caught the eco-terrorist that does this, he'd get a get a 27.5 wheel to his face.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  166. #166
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    The 27.5 inch wheel is still the best diameter for that move.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Someone is also dumping piles of glass on the trails at LLF. My tires laugh at it but if I ever caught the eco-terrorist that does this, he'd get a get a 27.5 wheel to his face.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    are you sure someone is dumping glass ?

    because it is well known there is about 5,000 combined feet of trail there with
    tons of glass that bubbles up from the ground, it is impossible to clean up. this is because a large part of this place was a junkyard/auto graveyard and all the glass is 50-90 years old and impossible to clean up.


    I have never seen new glass, just the old stuff. which is everywhere if you want to look for it. just ride through and don't ask it questions, you b fine.

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    So I'm one of the losers that this isn't homogenized enough for. I went there for the first time on Saturday and was joking after that I took my bike for a walk cause it needed exercise, based on both my riding speed and the amount I wasn't confident enough to ride through. Where is the wimpiest easiest loop there? You know, something the rest of you would consider basically a road (I promise not to clear anything!)

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    are you sure someone is dumping glass ?

    because it is well known there is about 5,000 combined feet of trail there with
    tons of glass that bubbles up from the ground, it is impossible to clean up. this is because a large part of this place was a junkyard/auto graveyard and all the glass is 50-90 years old and impossible to clean up.


    I have never seen new glass, just the old stuff. which is everywhere if you want to look for it. just ride through and don't ask it questions, you b fine.
    I'm not 100% sure as I ride there probably 3-4x a year so I don't know every root, rock, etc. But I was in there on Sunday and came across a big pile of glass that really seemed fresh and strategically placed. I've noticed this phenomenon in other areas and it looks like someone took a bunch of bottles from home, put them in bags, smashed them up with a hammer, and then took them out on trail and dumped them to f with mtb'ers. What it doesn't look like is some teens partying and smashing their bottles. Of course I could just be paranoid and completely off based, but the offer stands - if I see someone dumping glass on trail - wheel to the face!

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelf View Post
    Ok so this little area of sabotage, broken glass, littering (whoever is putting scarecrows and dolls and whatnot), very little mileage, rogue dumbed down go around ribbons, VT level drama, tree damage, and broken dreams is really worth all this jibber jabber? With so many good places to ride near the $hitty, why not just let this area lay?
    Rog, tie this in with other trails in Lexington, Estabrook in Concord, Lincoln trails, Russel Mill, and Billerica TF and you could probably put in a nice 80 mile loop.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelf View Post
    Ok so this little area of sabotage, broken glass, littering (whoever is putting scarecrows and dolls and whatnot), very little mileage, rogue dumbed down go around ribbons, VT level drama, tree damage, and broken dreams is really worth all this jibber jabber? With so many good places to ride near the $hitty, why not just let this area lay?
    It's one of the closer places to my house that's not super tech. 12 or 14 miles is not little. Use it or lose it. It is not conservation land, just open space. And as said, a great connector to some all day riding.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyanne View Post
    So I'm one of the losers that this isn't homogenized enough for. I went there for the first time on Saturday and was joking after that I took my bike for a walk cause it needed exercise, based on both my riding speed and the amount I wasn't confident enough to ride through. Where is the wimpiest easiest loop there? You know, something the rest of you would consider basically a road (I promise not to clear anything!)
    Have you tried Great Brook, some more beginner friendly trails there, as well as some dirt roads. LLF? Not that much tech there. But everyone starts as a beginner. Park under the powerlines, look at the map kiosk. There are 2 marked loops, the yellow and the blue. Mt biking consists of 2 things, strength and skills. Just practice and ride more. Got arm and leg pads? I still wear them.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelf View Post
    With so many good places to ride near the $hitty, why not just let this area lay?
    EDIT: snark removed


    it has history with us MTB'ers that is older than you are.

    elves.. who are hardcore chainring eating and ti-bolt sh*tting
    sort of adopted it 25 years ago and it is it's own sort of 'famous scratch of dirt' and took what was like 4 trails and built it out into what it is today

    plain and simple:
    masters of the cycling universe built it, and take care of it,
    and noobs are wrecking it. it's frustrating.

    it would be the same as if you, who currently ride a ton and are
    not afraid of just spending 4+ hours going up and down aggie 'just because'
    (I am this same way...I'll kill myself just to kill myself)
    found a chunk of land no one cared about and is essentially permanently
    abandoned, and you decide to make 250 acres of your own trail network
    using existing land features and pulling no rocks out, just shrubs. and then
    it was perfected over ten years of your riding buddies using it as a playground.

    and you invite world class racers and bike organization leaders to come visit beantown area and hey check this little scrub patch out....
    over the years and you show them this stash and it is just your little unknown nook

    and then as the years pass noobs get wind on the grapevine of your 'private trail stash' and they cry and moan 'this cannot be kept private it is town owned land' and as the months pass you go back and find your stuff softened and wrecked.

    it would be fine if they showed up and rode the place and left, but that is not happening today...people show up and ride the place and some percentage of clowns are making trail homogenizing changes.

    like having a son or daughter hanging out with the wrong crowd...makes your blood boil

    make no mistake...most of us whining about it are hard core mofo's and you better pack a lunch if you ride with us...we lay down long and hard...but this little scratch of dump is our baby and we'd like to keep it that way.

    I happen to be a land abutter so have special interest in it staying as raw
    as the early adopters intended

    it is a favorite of bike shop rides beginner, intermediate, and expert.
    it is a favorite of NEMBA rides
    it is a favorite of us locals to do a quick rip or long rip
    it is close to the MUP to easy access for miles around
    Last edited by 127.0.0.1; 09-27-2016 at 01:34 PM.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelf View Post
    All the more reason to take action beyond a forum discussion. 250 acres? So tiny. Nttawwt. Can't be too hard to catch the culprits in action. Aggy riding soooooooooo good, btw
    yea aggy is alright... I guess. park on top, go down go up all the trails, circle around do third hill owls, second hill roots and grunts, the go to watershed, do lime and back on animal, back up aggie. use trednot fly strips...I ride ~25 miles of aggie and watershed twice a month on my rigid fatbike. I been riding aggie on and off for what...30 years now ? the only thing I cannot do at aggie is climb up incline and climb up the start of animal (from the south) . I'll give 100 bucks to whomever could ride those two steeps UP...I love the endless rock and chunder [and avoiding termite or ant mounds on second hill]

    aggie is basically 'truth'. go ride, don't dab, and ride every trail both directions will clean out your pipes.

    I've also use my XC bike and ridden aggie using connectors from Saco and from Kittery. that makes a good long slog with the oreo stuffing being climbing to the top.

    anyhow this thread is specifically about homogenization (yeah and stravatards)
    killing off the magic which is what the LLF is all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Have you tried Great Brook, some more beginner friendly trails there, as well as some dirt roads. LLF? Not that much tech there. But everyone starts as a beginner. Park under the powerlines, look at the map kiosk. There are 2 marked loops, the yellow and the blue. Mt biking consists of 2 things, strength and skills. Just practice and ride more. Got arm and leg pads? I still wear them.
    Haven't made it to Great Brook yet with a bike, I have taken my dogs there but I think there's better spots to bike than what I normally do. Using the LLF map here http://www.landlockedforest.com/Burl...2012_final.pdf I think I took the first left on "unmarked" off the access road, and did the smallest possible loop one can create from "unmarked" and yellow. I continued on yellow by Rt 3 toward the wetland but gave up and turned back right before it. I don't have pads, but usually I end up going so slow it wouldn't hurt to fall, my bike generally slides out from under me one way and I put a foot down on the other! I haven't tried any of the group rides because I feed like I'm way too beginner for them. Thanks!

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelf View Post
    And uh, blame STRAVA.
    yup. Oh a strava KOM set with the need to thread a few 3 inch trees ? no problem
    lets just saw those trees out to shave .3 seconds on this corner, L-A-M-E

    little tombstone rock in your way making you have to jog lefty/righty. ? just fork rock out of the trail ...solved.

    GAH

  177. #177
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    best map of the place on openstreetmap

    OpenStreetMap

    the Bannon Hill southern stuff complete,
    the Hogway (off camber roots and tight singletrack)
    and the unmarked stuff direct to right of Milk Crate
    (unmarked on OSM but it's name is fridge door trail)

    is probably the hardest stuff and this doesn't include all the steep grunts in there.

    the rest of it isn't really hard per se, it's just full of grunts... and grunts take continued application of power to burp your way through it and motor over the babyhead rocks

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    I'm not 100% sure as I ride there probably 3-4x a year so I don't know every root, rock, etc. But I was in there on Sunday and came across a big pile of glass that really seemed fresh and strategically placed. I've noticed this phenomenon in other areas and it looks like someone took a bunch of bottles from home, put them in bags, smashed them up with a hammer, and then took them out on trail and dumped them to f with mtb'ers. What it doesn't look like is some teens partying and smashing their bottles. Of course I could just be paranoid and completely off based, but the offer stands - if I see someone dumping glass on trail - wheel to the face!
    can you show us on the doll where the glass touched you ?

    OpenStreetMap

  179. #179
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    Who the Freak is homogenizing the LandLocked for craps sake-capture.png

  180. #180
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Scott O again.

    LOL

    yes that is the well known old glass area. junkyard and farm era of 90 years ago, old windows and windshield shards just bubble up...totally normal for the LLF

    if you try to clean it up, it just makes it angrier and more comes up from below

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    yes that is the well known old glass area. junkyard and farm era of 90 years ago, old windows and windshield shards just bubble up...totally normal for the LLF

    if you try to clean it up, it just makes it angrier and more comes up from below
    Ohhhhhhh......so that nice elderly couple that I accused of dumping glass on the trail this afternoon were actually innocent I guess. Anyone know a good lawyer?

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyanne View Post
    Haven't made it to Great Brook yet with a bike, I have taken my dogs there but I think there's better spots to bike than what I normally do. Using the LLF map here http://www.landlockedforest.com/Burl...2012_final.pdf I think I took the first left on "unmarked" off the access road, and did the smallest possible loop one can create from "unmarked" and yellow. I continued on yellow by Rt 3 toward the wetland but gave up and turned back right before it. I don't have pads, but usually I end up going so slow it wouldn't hurt to fall, my bike generally slides out from under me one way and I put a foot down on the other! I haven't tried any of the group rides because I feed like I'm way too beginner for them. Thanks!
    Leeboh is correct, strength and skills. When I first started riding, LLF was difficult, now it is easy. You mention you ride slowly. It really helps if you can keep your speed up, less likely to stall out on rocks and roots. That requires both strength and skill. Harold Parker has some of the most difficult single track, but the dirt roads (double track) are a good place to build up your strength. You can create a pretty nice loop from the Jenkins lot by following the double track around Salem Pond, cross over Middleton Road, take Stearns Pond road around to Harold Parker Road. Harold Parker Road to Middleton Road, Take a right on Middleton, up to Berry Pond Road back to the Jenkins lot. Some of this is paved, but the car traffic is light so pretty safe. A little hilly in places, but that will build up your strength.

    Check google maps and the Harold Parker trail map and you can piece together the route.

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