Regulatory reform in DCR- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Regulatory reform in DCR

    This might be of interest to all of us riding in DCR supervised land, as it can have a tremendous impact.

    Gov. Baker has put an executive order in effect that requires all state agencies to evaluate all existing regulations and all those unjustified will be stricken from the books after Mar 31, 2016.

    Executive Order No. 562

    DCR has scheduled a number of public listening sessions where they will talk about how they plan to proceed on this. Comments are accepted before, during, and after the sessions. Please copy and paste this statement into the link below:


    "All MA public lands, under any state agency/board/commission/division, that offer passive recreation should simply designate all trails therein as shared-use for hiking, biking, etc. It is unjust and confusing to allow each state entity to draw separate, and in some cases opposite, conclusions as to the impact of these human-powered activities, all of which have been scientifically proven through peer reviewed studies worldwide and referenced in DCR's own literature to have similar impacts."

    Submit Public Comments

    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    Everybody should have a place to go. Horses and dirtbikes too.

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    Horses chew the trails to pieces. Not compatible with some of the urban, ped heavy areas. Dirtbikes? Joking right? No motor vehicles allowed on trails. They can use Freetown SF as well as October forest. Or just tear up your own front yard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Horses chew the trails to pieces. Not compatible with some of the urban, ped heavy areas. Dirtbikes? Joking right? No motor vehicles allowed on trails. They can use Freetown SF as well as October forest. Or just tear up your own front yard.
    Truth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Horses chew the trails to pieces. Not compatible with some of the urban, ped heavy areas. Dirtbikes? Joking right? No motor vehicles allowed on trails. They can use Freetown SF as well as October forest. Or just tear up your own front yard.
    No, I'm not joking. They don't belong on hiking and cycling trails for sure, but they deserve more than just 2 legal places to ride on either side of the commonwealth. Not to mention if they had more legit places to go, they probably wouldn't poach as much illegal stuff (goon neighborhood kids excluded from this statement)

    Get out of your own narrow minds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    No, I'm not joking. They don't belong on hiking and cycling trails for sure, but they deserve more than just 2 legal places to ride on either side of the commonwealth. Not to mention if they had more legit places to go, they probably wouldn't poach as much illegal stuff (goon neighborhood kids excluded from this statement)

    Get out of your own narrow minds.
    The problem with horses other than ripping up the trails is the massive amount of shit they leave behind. Nothing worse than flying down a trail and hitting a fresh pile of horseshit. They should stick to the fireroads and leave the singletrack to the hikers and mountainbikers.

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    Horses belong in glue and cat food (joking), I was responding about dirtybikes.

    I agree, though, they should be required to wear diapers. "Oh, but horsepoo is good for the environment and doesn't carry disease..." It doesn't mean I want to cover my bikes in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    No, I'm not joking. They don't belong on hiking and cycling trails for sure, but they deserve more than just 2 legal places to ride on either side of the commonwealth. Not to mention if they had more legit places to go, they probably wouldn't poach as much illegal stuff (goon neighborhood kids excluded from this statement)

    Get out of your own narrow minds.
    Truth!

  9. #9
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    This is the problem... everybody blames the others. Enthusiasts should unite for trail access. Yes, some activities cause more damage to the terrain than others, but land should be shared. I'm all for limiting access to certain trails depending upon the mode of recreation, but all recreational activities deserve a local playground.

    The motorsports industry is hurting because of narrow mindedness.

  10. #10
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    I just quickly browsed this thread. Did someone suggest we make dirt bike riders wear diapers and then turn them into glue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by k2blt View Post
    This is the problem... everybody blames the others. Enthusiasts should unite for trail access. Yes, some activities cause more damage to the terrain than others, but land should be shared. I'm all for limiting access to certain trails depending upon the mode of recreation, but all recreational activities deserve a local playground.

    The motorsports industry is hurting because of narrow mindedness.
    Umm, this is a mountain bike forum. All the ORV trails I have ever pedaled have been chew to pieces. Dirt bikes and ATV's are not compatible with responsible outdoor recreation. Think soil run off, destroyed trails, lack of other user enjoyment, noise and pollution to humans and animals. Just buy some land and use that. Or ride on some dirt roads way up in ME.

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    I can't remember the last time I showed up to a trail work day and there were horse owners and dirt bike riders helping out. Oh wait. It's because that has literally never happened.

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    Obviously you've never ridden in Freetown then? All those bridges were built by dirtybikers, and the newest one was a joint effort (pstr and nemba) just before last years freetown50.

    Obviously I'm not going to change some of your minds...and telling dirtbikes to get out of my back yard and ride some dirt roads up in Maine says everything: you don't know what kind of riders are out there.

    I didn't think I needs to say this AGAIN but i was never saying they needed to share the same trails. But think about how all the single track you ride got there. I'd bet 95% of it is old dirtbike trail from days when people weren't so damn uptight.

  14. #14
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    Some great trails were built by the dirt bikes: Foxboro, Arcadia, Big River, Freetown....

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Umm, this is a mountain bike forum. All the ORV trails I have ever pedaled have been chew to pieces. Dirt bikes and ATV's are not compatible with responsible outdoor recreation. Think soil run off, destroyed trails, lack of other user enjoyment, noise and pollution to humans and animals. Just buy some land and use that. Or ride on some dirt roads way up in ME.
    When we're doing the same thing to a lesser degree, it's a bit hypocritical to have a holier than though attitude. Hikers say the same thin about us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomB15 View Post
    I can't remember the last time I showed up to a trail work day and there were horse owners and dirt bike riders helping out. Oh wait. It's because that has literally never happened.
    2 things...

    1) When was the last time your local crew reached out to other communities? Equestrian? ATV/Motorbikes? Many of the trails I ride in NE were created by ORVs.

    2) With other recreational uses being deemed as destructive and/or illegal, why would subject themselves to the elitist attitudes of many hiker/bikers?

    I'm not saying reform is not needed, but a more open mind-set when coming to the table is necessary.

    I'm a mtn biker yes, but can certainly understand the frustrations of other's looking for trail access. I grew up riding ATVs, but have since sold off those toys due to limited riding areas. You can only "rip up your own front yard" so many times before you need to explore more terrain. What will we be saying when we're the ones losing trail systems. It's already happening!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Obviously you've never ridden in Freetown then? All those bridges were built by dirtybikers, and the newest one was a joint effort (pstr and nemba) just before last years freetown50.

    Obviously I'm not going to change some of your minds...and telling dirtbikes to get out of my back yard and ride some dirt roads up in Maine says everything: you don't know what kind of riders are out there.

    I didn't think I needs to say this AGAIN but i was never saying they needed to share the same trails. But think about how all the single track you ride got there. I'd bet 95% of it is old dirtbike trail from days when people weren't so damn uptight.
    Haven't ridden Freetown. The kind of riders I do see are poaching trails illegally. Kids ripping up singletrack and atv's making giant mud holes on the double track, flinging dirt and mud, gunning through the soft stuff. Maybe there are responsible users out there. Good luck getting access on public land. Why did they close down Georgetown to atv users? Lots of the trails in the state forest started as hiking trails. Uptight? No. A responsible land user, yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k2blt View Post
    When we're doing the same thing to a lesser degree, it's a bit hypocritical to have a holier than though attitude. Hikers say the same thin about us.
    Same thing? Not following. Study after study has shown that hikers and bikers have similar trail impacts.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2blt View Post
    2 things...

    1) When was the last time your local crew reached out to other communities? Equestrian? ATV/Motorbikes? Many of the trails I ride in NE were created by ORVs.

    2) With other recreational uses being deemed as destructive and/or illegal, why would subject themselves to the elitist attitudes of many hiker/bikers?

    I'm not saying reform is not needed, but a more open mind-set when coming to the table is necessary.

    I'm a mtn biker yes, but can certainly understand the frustrations of other's looking for trail access. I grew up riding ATVs, but have since sold off those toys due to limited riding areas. You can only "rip up your own front yard" so many times before you need to explore more terrain. What will we be saying when we're the ones losing trail systems. It's already happening!
    So great. All these ORV users will come out to trail days to work when they have no chance of ever riding there. Awesome. Open minded? More like realistic. Lets look at user experience. Say at Harold Parker SF where we just had our wicked ride. Bikes are quiet with low impact. Compatible with others who are walking, exploring, bird watching, or dog walking. Enjoying the forest and nature. And loud ATV and dirt bikes just fit in? With higher speeds, exhaust, and much higher trail impact.

  20. #20
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    about horses

    ZERO complaints about horses on any trail. they should be allowed whereever and whenever someone wants to take a horse out

    so what if they make post holes
    so what if trails are torn to shit
    so what if they crap on the trail

    --->In my book...horses are grandfathered in since the 1500's<---

    no I don't own one nor hang out with horses, but they are
    the original suv so to speak and they don't do all that much damage
    really,

    and if so, so what ? it is a new challenge to ride a bike over the bomb-cratered
    post-holed surface of horse-chundered trails

  21. #21
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    Not for nothing but the Bay State Trail Riders Association (horse group) does a HUGE amount of trail work in my area. They are highly motivated and have their shi# together. They get grants from the state and use the money to upgrade trails, build bridges etc. I think what you all need to realize is that WE are considered the enemy in many cases ( JUST as much as the motorized groups- sad, but VERY true) and combining our efforts with other like minded groups to improve access, and ability to build new trail is a good thing. I have NEVER been to an area so over ridden by horses that it is un-rideable- ATV's and MC's? absolutely.

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    leeboh Hate to say, but the view you have on Dirt bikes is not completely accurate.

    I ride dirt bikes that have same impact as mountain bikes ( trials ). Reason I stopped being envolved with NSNEMBA and doing trail maintainence is partly because of attitudes like yours. I have no legal place in Essex County to ride. I pay taxes to the State just as you do, what gives you more rights than I. Agreed not all open land is suitable for motorized but to close everywhere is discriminatory.

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    about horses

    ZERO complaints about horses on any trail. they should be allowed whereever and whenever someone wants to take a horse out

    so what if they make post holes
    so what if trails are torn to shit
    so what if they crap on the trail

    --->In my book...horses are grandfathered in since the 1500's<---

    no I don't own one nor hang out with horses, but they are
    the original suv so to speak and they don't do all that much damage
    really,

    and if so, so what ? it is a new challenge to ride a bike over the bomb-cratered
    post-holed surface of horse-chundered trails
    I am having a hard time deciding whether this is a sarcasm or not.
    Especially this part.
    so what if they make post holes
    so what if trails are torn to shit
    so what if they crap on the trail

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    Trials motorcycles. Great, a responsible rider. One of the few. Part of the issue is people crowds vs land area. Look at western MA, October mt in Pittsfield is open to ATVs. And lots of places with low population, like BLM stuff. Eastern MA, way crowded. My attitude is mine, and shared by others, not just bikers but people who enjoy the woods, and quiet. I don't have more rights, this what it means to live in MA, you know, a democracy. ME and NH might be better choices for riding opportunities. Don't like the rules? Vote for people who will change it, vote with your voice and pen. In this case, the majority rules, we all take the good with the bad. Still riding your bike?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Bikes are quiet with low impact. Compatible with others who are walking, exploring, bird watching, or dog walking. Enjoying the forest and nature.
    Unfortunately, I think a good chunk of hikers don't share that view of us. I think many horse people have a negative image of mtb'ers as well. Amazing that there horses can ride just about anywhere in the Blue Hills and places like Lincoln, MA but mtb's have severe restrictions.

    Damn horse people!

    Regulatory reform in DCR-o-horse-head-mask-facebook.jpg

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    Give everybody more access, that is all. You like quiet, stay in your basement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Give everybody more access, that is all. You like quiet, stay in your basement.
    I don't think it is as simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Give everybody more access, that is all. You like quiet, stay in your basement.
    Everybody should just be able to do whatever they want where ever? Most people like to enjoy the woods and nature for what they are. Without motors. Don't like the rules, move or change them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Everybody should just be able to do whatever they want where ever?
    Don't think thats what anyone means at all. Dirtbikes shouldnt be allowed everywhere but they definantly deserve some place to ride. Dirtbikes,ATV's, and snowmobiles do pay offfroad registration fees and there should be some areas designated for their use. Mountain bikers dont pay any fees and pretty much have free range of almost any state park/forest.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Everybody should just be able to do whatever they want where ever? Most people like to enjoy the woods and nature for what they are. Without motors. Don't like the rules, move or change them.
    You may have missed the tongue in cheek bit.
    I abide by the rules. I stop and take my helmet off for horses, whether on the dirty or one of my bicycles. Im not saying wherever, whenever, I don know how many times I have to keep repeating that. You have it stuck in your head that dirtybikers are reckless irresponsible heathens with no regard for anything, and that's simply not the case. So I suggest you re-evaluate your prejudiced position.
    It really is do-gooders like you that keep good people like us locked out for no reason. I don't want dirtbikes on mountainbike trails, or horses or whatever.
    I know what trails are like when they get chewed up, I ride Freetown all the time. It's one of the things that separates the men from the boys, as lots of people won't ride anything in that place. But, it's home. It'll only make you a better rider in the end (with either discipline) and to ***** and moan about this group or that group is ridiculous.
    Really, I'd like to settle this over a beer or three, and you'll see that there are ambassadors for the sport on both sides that don't automatically hate, just because I'm on a different mode. But you really don't seem like the type of person to be receptive to that at all.

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    Umm, not free range any where for mt bikes. Try the Fells for starters. Who actually registers the ORV's? Just ride them in your own yard. Easy. Or Freetown or Pittsfield. Maybe someone can tell my why they were booted from Georgetown? Responsible riders playing nice? Just because I buy something I should be able to use it? I want to drive my indy car on rt 93. Fees? All MA residents pay taxes for upkeep of roads and other public areas, like beaches, forests etc. NH and VT have snowmobile trial that cross the entire state. Lets talk about access. How many mt bikers in NE have done trail work, built bridges etc. 1,000's of hours every year across the region. It's called a relationship with the various land managers. One hand and washes the other. They need a bridge, a reroute for erosion, etc. We propose a trail for some trail connection etc, we do the labor and supply the wood. A community with cooperation. So just do a Kingdom Trail thing for your motor stuff. Get the community, various land owners and the support for whatever private land owners. Build and maintain the trails, charge a fee for use, get started. Good luck with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    You may have missed the tongue in cheek bit.
    I abide by the rules. I stop and take my helmet off for horses, whether on the dirty or one of my bicycles. Im not saying wherever, whenever, I don know how many times I have to keep repeating that. You have it stuck in your head that dirtybikers are reckless irresponsible heathens with no regard for anything, and that's simply not the case. So I suggest you re-evaluate your prejudiced position.
    It really is do-gooders like you that keep good people like us locked out for no reason. I don't want dirtbikes on mountainbike trails, or horses or whatever.
    I know what trails are like when they get chewed up, I ride Freetown all the time. It's one of the things that separates the men from the boys, as lots of people won't ride anything in that place. But, it's home. It'll only make you a better rider in the end (with either discipline) and to ***** and moan about this group or that group is ridiculous.
    Really, I'd like to settle this over a beer or three, and you'll see that there are ambassadors for the sport on both sides that don't automatically hate, just because I'm on a different mode. But you really don't seem like the type of person to be receptive to that at all.
    Missed it. Yes biased. I only know what I know. My only experience is kids on ATV's and motos ripping up the trails they are not supposed to be on. Just tearing it up all over. That is my experience. So not on mt bike trails. Moto only trails? How would you as a responsible rider, keep the motos on the moto only areas? So you do have a place to ride, Freetown? And the trails get chewed up. Um, not a do-gooder, just going from my own experience. Hate is a strong word, more like dislike the irresponsible. And I'll bring the bourbon.

  33. #33
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    Regulatory reform in DCR

    Man, you really are trolling hard.
    And for the record, my dirtbike has both an orv reg AND a street reg. I even paid the extra for a mc veteran plate.

    Signage keep the honest guys honest. You are never gonna correct for the goon kids, but in today's day and age they're more into video games and heroin than getting out there and doing just about anything.

    Your perception of dirtbike riders is of the 14yo goon. Real deal woods riders are NOT the same. We keep our bikes quiet, we abide by the rules, and most of us participate in one of the regional race series. The weekend warriors will go to Freetown, and be happy riding the easy parking lot loop. But the real side of Freetown, and all of October mountain is no joke. The terrain is rugged.
    Is be happy to take you on a jaunt. You have a fat bike, they love it out there...eat it right up.

  34. #34
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    Nope, not at all. Just passionate, that's all. So street legal. Enduro set up?

  35. #35
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    Sorry, edited. Yes.
    Ktm 300xc. Plated and woodsy reg'd for legal recreational training, and enduro racing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomB15 View Post
    I can't remember the last time I showed up to a trail work day and there were horse owners and dirt bike riders helping out. Oh wait. It's because that has literally never happened.
    There's a group of dirtbikers that do a lot of work to keep trails clear in the Freetown State Forest, they also partnered up with a local bike shop to build bridges over some wet areas.

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    @leeboh

    Biased indeed defines of your stance... harboring unreasonable, preconceived, and/or prejudiced feelings. Although I can appreciate your passion for preservation, I fear that once we begin pointing fingers, many more will be returned.

    All forms of outdoor recreation cause degradation. Yes, some more than others. Unfortunately, lowly educated people tend to weigh in on the matter and consider the actions of a few as whole population. This is in no means an insult towards, you as you seem to be well-informed and in tune with your recreational community... but your community is one amongst a hoard of others.
    Last edited by k2blt; 10-28-2015 at 07:23 PM.

  38. #38
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    Everybody should have access to trails. The dirt bike community needs to step their game up and work for it. Not just stamp a foot and demand it. Work for it like mountain bikers do. Put the work in then I'll buy a dirt bike and rejoin your ranks . Cause dirt biking is a blast.

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    But then again, some of the best trails are created by dirt bikes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demo8 s twerks View Post
    But then again, some of the best trails are created by dirt bikes
    Wut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangur View Post
    Wut.
    Yup.

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    Which ones?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Some great trails were built by the dirt bikes: Foxboro, Arcadia, Big River, Freetown....
    Original Vietnam stuff..lots in Leominster...Groton town forest...etc etc etc...

    Dirt bikers got the short end of the stick as far as access when ATVs became popular IMO.

    We like bicycles at my house, and we like all sorts of things with throttles too.
    There's more than one way to have fun on trails.
    Sinister Bikes
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    Like the trails in Gilbert state forest. awsome trails and dirt bikes are legal there and dirt bikes pretty much created the trails.
    Last edited by Demo8 s twerks; 11-16-2015 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Adding

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