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  1. #1
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    Looking for something like the kingdom trails but closer

    Just did the Kingdom trails this weekend and loved the singletrack up there. Problem is it's 7 hours round trip to go there. Is there anything out there like kingdom but closer? That was the best single track I've ever ridden...

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    7 hours from where?

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    Holliston, ma.

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    Check out Willowdale State Forest, its not KT but its buff singletrack.
    Lynn Woods:yikes:
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    Kingdom trails are pretty unique. I don't think anything comes close in New England.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy2600 View Post
    Holliston, ma.
    What's in Holliston?

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    I don't know the area around Holliston well, so I can't recommend anything close by. But trails on Cape Cod - Trail of Tears and Nickerson are similar to KT. And Robinson State Park in Agawam, MA is alot like KT, just much smaller and flatter.

  8. #8
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    Nothing is like KT. That is why people are willing to drive several hours to ride there. But if its smooth singletrack you're after the cape is a good bet. Also, Cutler Park in Newton is pretty fast. Earls trails in the Holyoke range is real close but only a few miles. FOMBA has a few trails that are really really close but without any elevation change. Big River in RI has a bunch of fast st (and a bunch of rocky stuff too).

    Also, if you like KT you should check out the Allegrippis trails in PA. Think 30 mile pump track. Its a haul (about 8hrs from Holliston) but worth it. Its the only place that rivals KT in pure mtn biking bliss IMO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy2600 View Post
    Holliston, ma.
    Hey I live in Holliston too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    What's in Holliston?
    What's In Holliston ! the Back side of Vietnam !
    I'm Better known as Splat

  10. #10
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    I road Vietnam again last night and for me, it's too technical to get any sort of rhythm or flow going. Great to work on your technical skills though. I'm going to check out Willowdale this weekend after hitting the beach on plum island. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to check them all out eventually. A friend was telling me about a new trail in Pittsfield state forest that was fun, I'll have to go there sometime soon (my girlfriends parents live in Pittsfield).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarsandtears View Post
    Check out Willowdale State Forest, its not KT but its buff singletrack.
    x2 about Willowdale. Also, come check out some of the stuff we have to offer across the border in RI. Arcadia and Big River have miles upon miles of fantistic singletrack, Arcaida, being of the more technical variety. 40 mile loops are easily put together at each of these systems. I'd be happy to give you a tour anytime

  12. #12
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    All I found in Pittsfield SF was 4x4 trails, but if it's a new trail....

    Willowdale is very good, just rode there for the first time. Rayburn in Millbury is also pretty good. FOMBA, also just rode there for the first time, is much more technical than Kingdom, Willowdale, and Rayburn. It's good though, it's like a cross between Leominster State and Kingdom.

  13. #13
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    Give Harold Parker a try. Park at Jenkins lot and follow someOne who knows their way around. There are some great trails in there. It's not KT but it's fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy2600 View Post
    I road Vietnam again last night and for me, it's too technical to get any sort of rhythm or flow going. Great to work on your technical skills though. I'm going to check out Willowdale this weekend after hitting the beach on plum island. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to check them all out eventually. A friend was telling me about a new trail in Pittsfield state forest that was fun, I'll have to go there sometime soon (my girlfriends parents live in Pittsfield).
    You need me to show you around Vietnam. I can show you trails that will give you rythm and speed. You just need to know where.
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  15. #15
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    If you are in Holliston. ther are a BOAT load of places near by to ride!

    Vietnam
    Upton State Forest
    Lake Whitehall
    Hopkinton SF
    Callahan
    Rocky Woods,
    Hale reservation
    Naonet woods
    Rocky Narrows
    Mt Pisgah
    Northboro Conservation
    Northboro Chauncy Trail
    Westboro State Hospital
    Wrenthem State Forest
    Hopedale Pond
    Blackstone Canal ( Ribbon, Candy, Badlands, Goat hill, Wolf Hill)
    Rayburn
    Singletary
    Sutton Water Works
    Blue Hills
    Foxboro SF
    Borderland

    and that is just a start! You have a lot of options!
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  16. #16
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    I like the variety in Bear Brook and Pawtuckaway State Parks in Southern NH,especially Bear Brook! Also Fort Rock park in Exeter NH right off Rt101- tiny but technical enough!

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    Go to pittsfield state forest. I'm from there, there's a bunch of nice single track, just poorly mapped. The turner trail is one of the best cut trails I've ridden. Loads of fun! Try to meet up with a local and they can show you the best routes.

  18. #18
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    Willowdale is the closest i've ridden to KT anywhere.

  19. #19
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    well, personally I think the closest thing I've found would be bear brook and franklin falls dam. Theres a trail there much like "sidewinder" up in the KT an it is awesome, better maintained IMO as well.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rides like drunk ostrich View Post
    And Robinson State Park in Agawam, MA is alot like KT, just much smaller and flatter.
    x2
    Better maintained and cheaper, too. Go Steve!

  21. #21
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    I personally think of wompatuck state park in Hingham as a bit of a "mini Kingdom Trails". Sure, the trails aren't all smooth, but the variety of singletrack there goes beyond what you usually find in Massacchusetts. I heard its had some problems with illegal trail builders lately though.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson View Post
    All I found in Pittsfield SF was 4x4 trails, but if it's a new trail....
    .
    Ok, nevermind. I just rode there again and when I went last year I somehow missed all the singletrack. I just rode Bear Claw and Deer Hill, awesome trails.

    Unfortunately a huge storm came through Pittsfield on Tuesday night and it's a real mess out there now Huge 2 foot pines down everywhere. Deer Hill seems mostly clear (thanks someone?), but Bear Claw was hit really hard. Park employee said in dropped from 75 to 59 real fast before the storm hit.

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    If you call creating a 30 foot burm made of stone and clay dirt followed by two succeding 2foot drops into a set of doubles then ending into another wide burm a problem, then yes.....Wompy does have that problem. Actually the problem is, that somebody went in and tore it all out, that's the problem. And it was really only 1 section built out of a VAST park. That being said, they did use a 300 year old fieldstone wall as the base of the burm, and we all know how Mass residents love their antique colonial walls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryantaber View Post
    If you call creating a 30 foot burm made of stone and clay dirt followed by two succeding 2foot drops into a set of doubles then ending into another wide burm a problem, then yes.....Wompy does have that problem. Actually the problem is, that somebody went in and tore it all out, that's the problem. And it was really only 1 section built out of a VAST park. That being said, they did use a 300 year old fieldstone wall as the base of the burm, and we all know how Mass residents love their antique colonial walls.
    You're missing the point I fear. The fact that an illegal trail was totally rad doesn't make it ok to build. The simple fact is that illegal trail building of any type jeopardizes access for bikers, and that is a definite problem. If someone wants to make trail improvements they have to go through the proper channels, or the construction should be torn down. It sucks, but that's life. Gotta jump through all the right hoops.

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    In most cases I would agree, but since this section was built in an area that was littered with lots of NEMBA sanctioned trails in a park that is VERY POPULAR with the locals for who bike. At the time it was ripped out , it seemed the only people who really wanted it out were the Nemba powers that be whose ring didnt get kissed. The burms were tight and big and not underbuilt, they appeared "safe". BUT I know what you mean about the hoops. I'm not the one who built the section, I was just a fan.

  26. #26
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    I like nemba as a whole, in principal. However, I don't like 75% of the trails built. Seems like berms and jumps, (even rolling tables) or any kind of feature is a no no, except at vietnam on the small acreage they actually own. I know it's always politics, but that's why I mostly ride private trails, cuz we build it, an everyone loves it, an it doesn't get torn down...I would actually be more involved with my local chapter if it wasn't for that...
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I like nemba as a whole, in principal. However, I don't like 75% of the trails built. Seems like berms and jumps, (even rolling tables) or any kind of feature is a no no, except at vietnam on the small acreage they actually own. I know it's always politics, but that's why I mostly ride private trails, cuz we build it, an everyone loves it, an it doesn't get torn down...I would actually be more involved with my local chapter if it wasn't for that...
    well said
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I like nemba as a whole, in principal. However, I don't like 75% of the trails built. Seems like berms and jumps, (even rolling tables) or any kind of feature is a no no, except at vietnam on the small acreage they actually own. I know it's always politics, but that's why I mostly ride private trails, cuz we build it, an everyone loves it, an it doesn't get torn down...I would actually be more involved with my local chapter if it wasn't for that...
    You have to remember NEMBA is just a bunch of people who like to ride and have the time to build trails. Those building trails are building what they enjoy riding. If you want to have berms and jumps, or other earthen features at your local park, become involved, get to know the land manager, do the paperwork and get shoveling. That's all it would take for NEMBA to build what you want to ride.

    So long as those doing the work are a bunch of middle aged guys who, when they aren't bench cutting new trails, are riding hard tails or short travel 'race like' bikes, look for more of the stuff we like to ride. Speed limited trails; which is to say, rugged, rocky, rooty, hilly, multi-directional, and a heck of a lot of fun.

    Harold
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hado_pv View Post
    You have to remember NEMBA is just a bunch of people who like to ride and have the time to build trails. Those building trails are building what they enjoy riding. If you want to have berms and jumps, or other earthen features at your local park, become involved, get to know the land manager, do the paperwork and get shoveling. That's all it would take for NEMBA to build what you want to ride.

    So long as those doing the work are a bunch of middle aged guys who, when they aren't bench cutting new trails, are riding hard tails or short travel 'race like' bikes, look for more of the stuff we like to ride. Speed limited trails; which is to say, rugged, rocky, rooty, hilly, multi-directional, and a heck of a lot of fun.

    Harold
    OR
    you could do something like the Dieselbikes group did in Lynn Woods and do your own thing apart from NEMBA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg View Post
    OR
    you could do something like the Dieselbikes group did in Lynn Woods and do your own thing apart from NEMBA.
    Lynn Woods:yikes:
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  31. #31
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    Absolutely nothing wrong with doing your own thing, so long as you work as well and hard as Frank does, just get the proper permissions. The upper level of NEMBA supports ALL legitimate trail construction and maintenance activity. If you're members you get the benefit of our history with the land managers and access to the organizations resources (tools, cash, reputation, experience and industry relationships).

    For work in Mass, if you're doing it alone, here is the DCR trails manual link http://www.mass.gov/dcr/stewardship/...guidelines.pdf. Get familiar with it, follow it and you're good.

    Happy Trails
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hado_pv View Post
    Absolutely nothing wrong with doing your own thing, so long as you work as well and hard as Frank does, just get the proper permissions. The upper level of NEMBA supports ALL legitimate trail construction and maintenance activity.
    Not to get into a back and forth, but NEMBA wasn't always so supportive in the beginning.
    It all comes down to having the proper permission, education, and commitment to working the trails for the betterment of all users.
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  33. #33
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    Obviously it's not just the people building the trails preference, as look how popular vietnam is! It's more of the land managers that don't acquire the right permissions to empower trail builders to build trails like at vietnam. I personally don't even like vietnam, I mean I do, but... it's not... spread out enough. I'm 30 an I like a mix of everything on my rides, but everything I see popping up in northern mass an southern NH is all the same. There is hardly ever put the focus and time into a trail system that offers some sort of elevation to build a nice switch back climb to a long flowing burmed out downhill with multiple jumps (and go arounds for those who like the rubber on the ground). I don't want to crap on anyones hard work, cuz beleive me I do appreciate anyone that puts there time into trails I ride. But, I refer to most of em as "one and dones" . I ride em once, and I'm good. I ride a private stretch of trails that's privately maintained that has everything I look for, the people that ride there all pitch in when the trails get messy, an everyone respects the hardwork that a few do.
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  34. #34
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    Manchvegas, you should check out Harold Parker sometime if you haven't already. We have our wicked ride of the east there on the 30th. I'll be slinging some chili. We will have 25 plus miles of excellent single track arrowed. Be sure to hit " lock and load". Natural features, roll downs, drops, a few small berms, bridges and the like. Let me know if you clean the uphill log ride.

  35. #35
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    I've been to HP. Wasn't overly impressed, good if you like really technical xc, not much in the way of elevation. Although, I have to admit I may have missed "the goods" cuz we mostly rode the north section. It's on my hitlist for more exploring, along with lynn woods etc.. It's usually early in the season, and late in the season that I go to my hitlist, as midseason it's hard to give up 2 mile long descents.....
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryantaber View Post
    In most cases I would agree, but since this section was built in an area that was littered with lots of NEMBA sanctioned trails in a park that is VERY POPULAR with the locals for who bike. At the time it was ripped out , it seemed the only people who really wanted it out were the Nemba powers that be whose ring didnt get kissed. The burms were tight and big and not underbuilt, they appeared "safe". BUT I know what you mean about the hoops. I'm not the one who built the section, I was just a fan.
    You shouldn't be blaming NEMBA for the removal of the berms on Pine Run. It was primarily DCR that decided enough was enough. They seemed to be willing to leave the berms alone until the yahoos started building on the stone wall and creating alternate jumplines along the trail.

    NEMBA has repeatedly tried to get the illegal trailbuilders to join forces with Friends of Wompatuck to channel their ideas and activity into sanctioned trails, but they don't seem to be getting the message.

    The same thing happened to the new trail that was cut in the south end of the park.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I've been to HP. Wasn't overly impressed, good if you like really technical xc, not much in the way of elevation. Although, I have to admit I may have missed "the goods" cuz we mostly rode the north section. It's on my hitlist for more exploring, along with lynn woods etc.. It's usually early in the season, and late in the season that I go to my hitlist, as midseason it's hard to give up 2 mile long descents.....

    hit me up if you want a real deal look at HP, you have to do a little "connecting" for some elevation otherwise HP is pretty flat.

    Greg
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I like nemba as a whole, in principal. However, I don't like 75% of the trails built. Seems like berms and jumps, (even rolling tables) or any kind of feature is a no no, except at vietnam on the small acreage they actually own. I know it's always politics, but that's why I mostly ride private trails, cuz we build it, an everyone loves it, an it doesn't get torn down...I would actually be more involved with my local chapter if it wasn't for that...
    Is it fair to expect an organization to consider your interests if you refuse to get involved with them?

    NEMBA is having a BB trail planning meeting next month. Please considering attending to share your opinions on how the park's mtb trails should be laid out and constructed. This is also a great way to understand the constraints the State places on such things.

    -Pete
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  39. #39
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    It was primarily DCR that decided enough was enough. They seemed to be willing to leave the berms alone until the yahoos started building on the stone wall and creating alternate jumplines along the trail.

    NEMBA has repeatedly tried to get the illegal trailbuilders to join forces with Friends of Wompatuck to channel their ideas and activity into sanctioned trails, but they don't seem to be getting the message.
    The only reason DCR even knew about the berms was because NEMBA brought it to their attention. I doubt DCR would even venture down in to that area of the park if it wasn't for NEMBA. On the SE Mass NEMBA Facebook page they posted pictures of themselves dismantling the berms. Over the years, all kinds of stuff was built in Wompatuck and nobody cared until NEMBA decided that all efforts needed to be channeled thru them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    The only reason DCR even knew about the berms was because NEMBA brought it to their attention. I doubt DCR would even venture down in to that area of the park if it wasn't for NEMBA. On the SE Mass NEMBA Facebook page they posted pictures of themselves dismantling the berms.
    I just looked. There's one picture of the berm built on top of the old stone wall. No pictures of anyone dismantling anything.

    There is this posting from June:

    Please join Southeast Mass NEMBA and Friends of Wompatuck this Saturday, June 4th for some trail work and updating. <...> The Big One is the need to rebuild the 'big berm' on Pine Run. For that one we need lots of manpower to move alot of rock and dirt. Pine Run is the trail on the North side of Prospect Hill that was designed to be a sustainable downhill mountainbike trail. Pine Run has become a destination, which translates to alot of use. There have been some unauthorized modifications made and some stone walls have been compromised. More berms and features have been constructed, some of which are good, some will need periodic attention. Some redesign is needed, so now's the time to make it better.
    Pine Run is a fun, challenging ride--let's keep it that way...


    And BTW, the DCR ranger at Wompy rides too.

    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    Over the years, all kinds of stuff was built in Wompatuck and nobody cared until NEMBA decided that all efforts needed to be channeled thru them.
    NEMBA didn't decide anything. You're barking up the wrong tree.
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    I guess "rebuild the big berm" meant "remove all berms"...

    If you scroll back far enough, someone posted a link to a Flickr set of the days work.

    Pine Run is a fun, challenging ride--let's keep it that way...
    Whatn an ironic line. You won't find any argument from me that some of b-lines were sketchy, but the berms at the bottom were far more fun (and safer) than what's there now.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    I guess "rebuild the big berm" meant "remove all berms"...

    If you scroll back far enough, someone posted a link to a Flickr set of the days work.



    Whatn an ironic line. You won't find any argument from me that some of b-lines were sketchy, but the berms at the bottom were far more fun (and safer) than what's there now.

    No doubt it was safer with the berms. Especially the first time down after they were removed!

    My point was that as of June, the NEMBA leadership was in favor of the berms. Someone else made the decision to remove them.

    I'll dig into it a bit and see what I can find out.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalphile View Post
    Is it fair to expect an organization to consider your interests if you refuse to get involved with them?

    NEMBA is having a BB trail planning meeting next month. Please considering attending to share your opinions on how the park's mtb trails should be laid out and constructed. This is also a great way to understand the constraints the State places on such things.

    -Pete
    Pete, I know the restrictions the state puts on everything. I've been riding mountain bikes, quads, dirtbikes, and snowmobiles in NH for 20 years. My ideas are nothing new. Is BB actually planning on more mountain bike specific trails? Let me know when the meeting is, I'll try my best. I have to say though, I'm not cut out for politics as I'm one of those anti government wackos that just likes to get things done without kissing someones ass, or jumping through hoops....
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    Manchvegas, I don't think you will find 2 mile downhills in eastern MA. HP is great for what we have to work with. Tech rock, short ups and roll downs, lots of varied terrain and great miles of xc. I can pedal there from my house. I can connect with 50 miles of other trails. Works for me, YRMV.

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