How does Marin Quad Link differ from VPP and DW Link?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. How does Marin Quad Link differ from VPP and DW Link?

    To me they all have similar axle path that makes VPP popular (SC and Intense). What is so unique about Marin Qaud Link that makes it perform different than VPP or DW design? I keep reading Marin links and rear traingle being very stiff when VPP does not.
    sth

  2. #2
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    Hello SingleTrackHound,
    My intentions for this response are not to critique these other designs, but to (hopefully) help you to understand how the Marin QUAD-Link suspension system works. I’m sure that Santa Cruz, Intense, and Dave Weagle would do a much better job of describing how their suspension designs work than I would, so I’ll keep the response focused on Marin.

    The Marin QUAD-Link, VPP, and DW-Link all fall into the same category of suspension, which is true 4-bar linkage. Starting with basic layout, you can see that Marin’s links are all inside the front triangle, with elevated stays on the swingarm. This layout helps to keep the pivot hardware out of the mud/water/dust spray from the rear wheel, and allows us to construct a compact, rigid swingarm structure with tons of rear tire clearance. The placement of the links also allows us to reduce the amount of hardware to only 4-bolts, which capture all 4 pivots and the rear shock. This Patented 4-Bolt/4-Bar layout has the shock eyes pivoting concentrically with the suspension pivots.

    The Marin QUAD-Link rear wheel path has the rear wheel moving away from the BB center as it moves up, causing a small amount of chaingrowth up to the suggested sag point. Pedaling forces pull the chain, and in turn drive the wheel into the ground, providing excellent pedaling traction. Past the suggested sag point, the wheelpath changes to zero chaingrowth, which means that any impact that drives the rear wheel past the sag point will not have any effect on pedaling. This allows smooth pedaling through rough terrain.

    Because true 4-bar linkage bikes like those you’ve asked about use a multi pivot layout, the rear wheel path cannot be described as an arc. The rear wheel path is a complex curve, defined by a complicated mathematical equation. However, for practical purposes, the “VPP” or “Instantaneous Pivot Center” (IPC) can be located by drawing a line through each link, right through the pivots, until the lines intersect (see images) This intersection is the IPC, and that IPC location changes constantly throughout the suspensions travel. It is the behavior of the IPC that differs between the Marin QUAD-Link, VPP, and DW bikes.

    With the Marin, the IPC starts in front of, and above the bottom bracket. As the suspension moves through its travel the IPC swings down, and toward the bottom bracket, finishing in front of, but below the bottom bracket. Because the IPC moves closer to the center of the rear wheel, the swingarm is effectively getting shorter. In terms of leverage, this means that the QUAD-Link has a “Rising Rate” suspension. On the trail that means small trail imperfections are met with minimal resistance, but the Marin QUAD-Link system automatically adjusts it’s leverage ratio for larger hits, giving a feel that has often been described as “bottomless”.

    All of these characteristics are tweaked for different bikes; where on a 100mm Alchemist the focus is on pedaling efficiency and climbing traction, the Quake is tuned for terrain management, and impact absorption.

    I know this all sounds complicated, so I suggest you see your LBS for a test ride. It will all make more sense then.

    I hope this helps.

    Jason
    Marin Bikes
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  3. #3
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    Jason, thx for the detailed and amazingly illustrative response! You did an amazing job explaining the inner workings of Quad-Link suspension.

    Links residing in the front triangle and constantly changing IPC during suspension travel are two things I noted out of it. Also, I can't help but notice how burly the rear-end looks…this must translate into a laterally stiffer frame. I am starring at it right now.

    I don't need to go to LBS to demo. I am almost finish building 08 East Peak. All I got left is to install disc caliper and run both cables. I am building it a bit beefy since I am not a weight weenie. Can't wait to turn my leg over on this puppy.
    sth

  4. #4
    sru
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    Nice post Jason.

    I can't add anything to that other that to say the quadlink works as advertised. When your shock is set up properly, it is probably the best system available for square edged hits. I'm reminded of that everytime I ride my RiftZone over gnarly rocks/roots. Quad link has consitantly beat the DW link and SC VPP in that area in every impartial comparison I've read.

    It does pedal firmly. I can stand and crank hard with only small amounts of pedal bob, that is with a standard fox float r shock.

    Great system!

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the useful information Jason! I have custom Quake CL7 that I use for mostly DH use that require would require some climbing to the trailhead and I was amazed on how efficiently it pedals. During DH runs, I sometimes forget that I'm aboard my 6.8 inch mini DH bike and not my 9.5 inch full dh bike. I hope the 9 inch version of the Quake comes out soon as I'd love to get me one.
    DH:Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 w/ 888R
    FR:Marin Quake w/ 888RC
    AM:BMC Superstroke 01 w/ 66RC2X

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickgto
    Thanks for the useful information Jason! I have custom Quake CL7 that I use for mostly DH use that require would require some climbing to the trailhead and I was amazed on how efficiently it pedals. During DH runs, I sometimes forget that I'm aboard my 6.8 inch mini DH bike and not my 9.5 inch full dh bike. I hope the 9 inch version of the Quake comes out soon as I'd love to get me one.

    I completely agree; I find that my quake handels the rough rocks of the rockies much better then my old Marin team DH using the 8.5" setting. I am also running more sag then I did with the Team DH, and i find that i bottom out less ( partly due to improved rear shock from the Van RC to the Rocco). The Quake frame is also one of the stiffest frames out there.

    Quad link climbs like a goat on roids. After taking the quake on a few XC race cources i can't wait to see what the Mt Vision feels like.

    Sorry this post is more of a review on the Quake then a response.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbjason
    Hello SingleTrackHound,


    I hope this helps.

    Jason
    Marin Bikes

    Hi Jason

    Glad to see Marin Bikes folks on MTBR. I'm a big fan of MB. I still have my 2000 MVP. The '09s looks awesome, BTW.

    Great explanation on the QUAD.

    Cheers.

  8. #8
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    So, totally reviving an old thread... I purchased a 2010 marin quad 120 and was curious as to what shock tune I should get in an aftermarket fox? Leverage ratio suggest medium tunes but will that be ok with the rising rate?

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

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