User Review: Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    User Review: Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )

    First Ride; Initial first impression;

    I received the BT40S just before leaving for work yesterday. Today I had some good weather so I put the lamp on my bars and took off for a test run.

    The BT40S I found to be an interesting lamp. I'll speak more about the setup later but first I want to talk about the ride. Starting temperature for the ride was about 70F. The 40S is much smaller than I expected, slightly smaller than a typical Tri-clone lamp. Being smaller than expected I was a little worried about over heating. The lamp did get slightly warm to the touch on the higher modes but over all was not a problem. The lamp is set-up with 4-neutral XP-G2 Cree LEDs.

    I was pleasantly surprised that the output and beam pattern were quite useable regardless of mode being used. The lamp ( with standard optic ) throws out a medium wide beam pattern that expands the farther out it goes. Because of this the throw suffers a little but not to the point of being unusable. In all I had a very pleasant ride and found I could actual ride almost anything in the lowest mode with no problems unless I really began to ride faster. With the standard optics the beam pattern shines everything very well close to the bike. Distance throw on low is maybe 40-50 feet depending on terrain. The lighter the trail surface the more the light would carry. Over all I was very please with the low mode, that too was unexpected ( Note* I did try the flood optic and yes it supplies a very massive flood beam. No doubt some may like that but sadly it absolutely kills the throw which IMO makes it unusable. )

    Distance viewing with the BT40S is a little different than the other bike lamps I have. I have yet to measure the useable distance throw but judging from the initial trail ride and the test I did on a soccer field later after the ride, I would think about 150ft max ( on high ). While this is not near as far as my Gloworms or KD2 lamp can throw it is still enough for general bar use IMO. I also found the lamp worked very well with my other helmet lamp I was using ( SSX3-neutral ). With both lamps on low I could ride almost anything and had no problems seeing, even when riding fast.

    The two higher modes of the BT40S ( the lamp has four modes ) were of course better for seeing things a little farther out. During the ride when I used my SSX3 ( on helmet ) I found the two beam patterns complemented each other very well. So much for the initial ride. I'll follow up with more ride reports as I go. As with all my reviews I comment on the things I notice as I go along.

    Now a little more about about the BT40S lamp itself. In this section I'll talk about the good and the not so good. The lamp has a large back section where the mode buttons are. Yes, I said "buttons" with an s. Some people will like this type of switch but I've not yet made a decision on it. Press any button and the lamp comes on. The upper button moves the lamp to lower mode levels, the lower button move the modes to upper levels. For the most part I had no problem working the buttons but it does take getting used to.

    I did have to do something about the translucent plastic piece that covers the rear buttons. When you turn the lamp on a very bright green voltage indicator illuminates the entire back of the lamp. This I found not to be to my liking. Before leaving for the ride I just cut out a round piece of black duct tape and placed it in the middle, leaving just a small illuminated edge which turned out to work very well for me. Without doing that I would of had WAY too much light shining in my face from the voltage indicators. After the quick fix all worked well and I had no problems seeing or working with the lamp while riding. I'm not completely sold on this two-part UP/Down switch but it worked fine and as such I'll not count it as a negative.

    Well, every lamp has some flaws and the BT40S is no exception to the rule. The 40S comes with two sets of optics. The standard and the flood. When I took the retaining ring off the front of the light to try the flood optic I was not impressed with what I saw. First, the emitter board is only held down with a bit of thermal paste ( and the pressure from the quad-optic once installed ). Not a big problem as I see it but you do have to make sure to reposition the emitter board if it slides around while putting in the optics. I had no problem doing this and when finished I found that the lamp got warmer when on. No doubt the retaining ring needed to be tightened to make sure the board was getting better thermal contact.

    Last but not least; the biggest negative issue ( IMO ) is that the design of the front of the lamp doesn't seem to take much thought into preventing water ingress.
    There is no O-ring at all toward the front of the lamp. That being the case I can see two places that water might be able to enter. . First, around the retaining ring and secondly where the ring contacts the plastic one piece quad optic. A flat good size O-ring might help the water around the optic but if it's too thick the retaining ring won't be able to completely seal. Sadly , the only fix I can see that might work is to use some kind of light grease or sealant to prevent water ingress. That said I've tried doing that to other lamps before without much success. Going forward, I have to try because otherwise I'd never use any lamp on my bars that I wasn't sure could handle a good rain. Hopefully someone else will have some ideas or perhaps the grease idea will be sufficient. It would be a shame to dismiss this lamp for such a problem. Later, I'll test the lamp for water ingress once I do something to fix the problem.

    To whom it may concern; This lamp was provided by Nitefighter ( free of charge ) for review purposes. I have no interest in selling Nitefighter or any other brand lamp. My intent is to do an honest user review of the product and give an honest opinion ( pro or con ) on the quality and usability of the product. Thank you. CAt

  2. #2
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    Nice description Cat, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The upper button moves the lamp to lower mode levels, the lower button move the modes to upper levels. For the most part I had no problem working the buttons but it does take getting used to.
    What if you open rear side and just rotate circuit inside for 180deg? It seems to me it is just wrongly assembled. Magicshine MJ-872 has it proper designed Up for increase and Down for decrease. I think BT40 should operates the same.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    What if you open rear side and just rotate circuit inside for 180deg? It seems to me it is just wrongly assembled. Magicshine MJ-872 has it proper designed Up for increase and Down for decrease. I think BT40 should operates the same.
    Yes it is very easy for the circuit board to rotate along with the silicone boot during rear assembly. There is a white plastic/nylon retaining ring that presses against the back of the board; tamping it down tightly in place helps hold the board in position when you re-assemble the lamp. You will probably also have to keep a thumb on the boot too, in order to keep it from rotating out of 12:00/6:00 as you tighten the alloy end cap back on.

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-image.jpg

    Yeah Cat I was surprised too at Garry Bunk's tear down of the BT40S showing there was no gasket or O-ring between the lens and retaining ring. Wonder whether the MagicShine or other clone version are similar in that regard. OTOH, one in my lamp is screwed down so tight, seriously doubt water could ever penetrate. Perhaps because the lens is frosted resin rather than glass it has enough give to be self-sealing or at least provide a highly water-resistant barrier.
    Last edited by andychrist; 04-19-2015 at 10:52 AM.

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    My thoughts too Andy on that seal against the optic. I doubt it's waterproof, but would expect it to be very water resistant.

    My switch came properly installed with upper button increasing and lower button decreasing.

    I agree with CAt on the battery indicator light being way too bright. This is evident in my beamshot pics.

    -Garry

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    My concerns for waterproofing have diminished after a few cold to warm cycles with most of my lights causing condensation anyway. It seems almost impossible to keep moisture out altogether so as long as it's reasonably closed off its good enough for me. I'd like to see manufacturers begin to start potting the circuitry, though I guess it would make modding a bit tricky. The retaining ring on my BT40S was snugged pretty tight so I think that would suffice, otherwise a bit of grease would probably do the trick. It may be worth mentioning to Andy though, as it would likely only cost them a few pennies to implement

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Yes it is very easy for the circuit board to rotate along with the silicone boot during rear assembly. There is a white plastic/nylon retaining ring that presses against the back of the board; tamping it down tightly in place helps hold the board in position when you re-assemble the lamp. You will probably also have to keep a thumb on the boot too, in order to keep it from rotating out of 12:00/6:00 as you tighten the alloy end cap back on.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah Cat I was surprised too at Garry Bunk's tear down of the BT40S showing there was no gasket or O-ring between the lens and retaining ring. Wonder whether the MagicShine or other clone version are similar in that regard. OTOH, one in my lamp is screwed down so tight, seriously doubt water could ever penetrate. Perhaps because the lens is frosted resin rather than glass it has enough give to be self-sealing or at least provide a highly water-resistant barrier.
    About the position of the switch; I see it can be rotated. It took a couple tries to get it right. You just have to make sure you don't hit the board while removing the plastic ring. I also had to reposition the outer plastic membrane because it got out of alignment. No big deal though. Total process took about a 5 minutes. On a side note I like how tight the back of the lamp screws on to the rear. I can't see water getting anywhere inside the rear unless the rear membrane somehow cracks.

    About the water resistance of the front area; Where the retaining ring contacts the plastic lens; I'm not convinced "tight" contact alone is enough to prevent leakage. No doubt a thin layer of light grease might add some insurance. Same for the threads on the front retaining ring. I'd just feel better if the compartment that holds the emitters/electronics were more isolated.

    Not everyone rides in the rain but some people are die-hards that ride in all kinds of weather. Usually when I get caught in rain it is totally by accident...and as we all know weather can be unpredictable at times.

    Going forward my gut tells me I need to do a good shower test on this lamp. If the light grease keeps out the water than I'll be sure to report that. Regardless, I don't feel this lamp should need to be modded OTB so perhaps I'll test it first "as is" just to see if it's worth the price. Personally I expect more quality and better features from any lamp that is a step above the "entry level" Chinese lamps that can be bought for $25-$30. This said if the BT40S doesn't perform well in a wet environment I will be disappointed and will need to point it out. In saying this I'm going to hold the BT40S to the same standard I would expect from a lamp like Magicshine, Xeccon or any other lamp in the same price range. More on this issue as I progress in the review.

  7. #7
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    Nice review cat!

    I do have a question, the lamp head is the same price as about any other Chinese lighthead that's decent quality (yinding, solarstorms via GB) so I personally expect about the same. The "kit" to me seems questionable on price until pack is shown to be worth the extra vs other Chinese packs.

    But that's my 2 cents im going off what lights ive tested vs what ive paid thus far.

    And mine will finally be here I think tomorrow if not Tuesday at the latest (head was at a hub between me and Chicago as of Saturday night, headed my way)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post

    About the water resistance of the front area; Where the retaining ring contacts the plastic lens; I'm not convinced "tight" contact alone is enough to prevent leakage. No doubt a thin layer of light grease might add some insurance. Same for the threads on the front retaining ring. I'd just feel better if the compartment that holds the emitters/electronics were more isolated.
    NOOO, Cat, do NOT put any grease where it might make contact with the lens! Carclo specifically states their resin lenses are vulnerable to oils and should not even be touched with human hands or they could degrade. Dunno whether silicone lubricant might be of any benefit here but I still doubt the front of the BT40S will offer any less water resistance than other lamp heads. If you are all that concerned about water ingress the first place I'd recommend for improvement would be the cable hole under the screw mount, it does not appear to have a gasket. The fit is fairly tight so I'm not all that worried myself but can imagine with a good soaking water might be able to migrate into the lamp head through capillary action.

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-image.jpg

    Anyway, hope you enjoy riding with the Nitefighter, Cat.

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    Good review Cat-man-do!

    I have to question if it's worth the extra money when you can get this light for $15
    USA Stealth Black 1600 LM 4 CREE XP G LED Bike Light Light Head Only 872 A | eBay

    I know Garry compared the two light here
    New cheap-o Chinese LED bike lights 2015 - Page 5- Mtbr.com

    and he said the Nitefighter was superior. But I can't see myself spending the extra money on a Nitefighter.

    The "[USA] Stealth Black" is obviously a clone of the Magishine 872. I bought mine about two years ago for around $32 and used it for 6 months before I moved on to other lights. I was ecstatic with the light at the time. My only other modern light at the time was an Magicshine 808E and I preferred the 872 clone because it just put out tons of light in broad flood. It's an awesome light. The major downside of the light that it doesn't have the super-long throw. Here's a thread were a couple of guys discussed the light
    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...rs-873174.html

    The thing that bugs me about Nitefighter is that they have been around for at least two years and nobody ever posted anything about them. In fact there are only 6 threads with the name "Nitefighter" in the thread title. The oldest three threads (nearly two years ago) only have a total of three replies for all three threads. They were completely ignored! Plus the threads were started by someone appearing to be working for the company. In my opinion they were always too expensive and too unknown to make it worth a purchase. I never really trusted them, to be honest. In my opinion they sold copies of Magicshine lights at nearly the Magishine price so you might as well buy a Magicshine. Plus you can buy a Magicshine from Jim at action led who will give you excellent customer service as well as a warranty. The Nitefighter lights were always a clone light with twice the price.

    Now there is a renewed interest in this brand. I guess because because they have dropped their prices. Was that it? Or is it marketing strategy 2.0? Maybe they were they just under-appreciated for the last two years? I don't know. I'm still skeptical.

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    Well, as far as the lighthead anyway. They were one of the first companies to offer NW from the factory which is a plus, and they also use the xp-g2 not the xp-g. So for an extra 15 dollars I feel that is worth it. As far as quality I don't have both but I do have an mj872 that I just need to get back from a friend to compare to

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    The Magicshine 872 also isn't without it's flaws. I remember in the main mtbr light shoot-out the light initially put out a great amount of light, but then stepped down by a huge a amount as it became hot and then would stay at that reduced output for the remainder of the run-time.

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    I liked mine, never ran it much without good airflow so I didn't have that issue, just some voltage sag/indicator light quirks. I wound up lending it to a friend who started night riding and need to get it back. I bought a pair of kd2's I plan of giving him instead

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    So, initial thoughts on this light, IMPRESSED.

    Found there is oring behind the optic. That's where the seal is. Ring pushes optic against it make case seal there.

    Battery wire has rubber grommet at the case. I dont think it'd handle being submerged but waterproofing is better than/on par with yinding.

    And holy crap that's alotta light for a simple round head. I need to put it up against my ss x3. Still has a "spot" but its freaking NICE.

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    Actually I just checked mine and there is an o ring too. It stays on a lip in the housing and is black so it's easy to miss

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    Yeah, I'm probably just being overly skeptical. $30 for a lighthead with upgraded emitters is a good deal.

    I wonder how well it throws compared to the yinding and solarstorms.

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    Throw isn't the best with either optic imo. It's seems to be better suited to the bars. I'll let Cat do his thing and elaborate more but I would imagine that they would do better to include a tighter optic instead of a super super flood and a normal flood

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Battery wire has rubber grommet at the case.
    Thanks! I was wrong before but thrilled to see there actually is a grommet there, so perfectly set into the case it is almost invisible. So between that and the O-ring behind the optic, looks like the Nitefighter should live up to its declared specs after all.

    Glad to hear you are impressed with the lamp head, hope you get a lot of use out of it, tigris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    Actually I just checked mine and there is an o ring too. It stays on a lip in the housing and is black so it's easy to miss
    For the record, I knew about that O-ring. I didn't mention it because where it was mounted ( found mine down inside beyond the lip ) just didn't make any sense. When I first looked at it I didn't see how it could serve any purpose down inside the lamp. Maybe it's suppose to sit higher up on the lip and seal the underside of the optic. (?) I need to take another look at it. I figure even if I can position it to do that it still does nothing to prevent water from getting beyond the outer retaining ring. If water gets inside the ring there might be fogging of the optic if the emitter area isn't completely sealed off.

    I haven't had time to take another look at mine but last night when I was cleaning the front of mine I noticed the optic made a small popping/creaking noise when I pressed against it. Once again this might be happening because the optic needs to sit on the O-ring and the O-ring isn't there anymore ( I took mine out ). I need to fix this or it's more possible that water will get inside.

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    Its gonna be hard to beat the flood of my ssx3 but this light is awesome. Like there rings for the mount too, much better/easier to deal with.

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    Hmm, I'm gonna have to take another look at that O-ring to optic seal (guess I missed it).

    I could try posting comparisons to my SSX3 as I take my photos at the same locations. I already posted comparisons between the 872 clone and SSX3 elsewhere. I don't think I have Yinding photos yet since I already had snow on the ground when I received it (i.e. never got a chance to take pics in decent conditions).

    By the way, remember this lights driver pushes the LEDs a tad harder than the EBay clone too.

    -Garry

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    Well I got sent back home from work tonight so wait for it to get dark to start working on all this. Yinding up first, then ill do comparisons on bt40 and ss x3, both are already mounted to my bike, black yinding will be added to bars and blue one (which I switched emitters around already) on my helmet. If it doesn't rain, ill head down to the park again where ive got space (and paved trails which are basically paved, wooded double track). And work on some pics.



    Hope cat can get more done on his review tonight, he's way better at this than me so want his full honest thoughts on this thing.

    Oh and @ cat. The oring has a seat around the perimeter that should be at the edge of the optic, but its slightly too big so urs very well may have popped out and fallen when you started to remove the optic. Mine is a little big. Nitefighter needs to know and correct that one, its a nightmare to get it to stay well enough to reassemble.

    And ignore my question, I understand your thought process now.
    Last edited by tigris99; 04-20-2015 at 08:17 PM.

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    Ok im gonna let cat do his thing but I opened mine up all the way...i can't find anything that needs attention.....the usual basic needs aren't needed here, other than the battery wire which is obvious and waiting for order from dx to see if those ones are actually 20awg (magic shine arent more like 20ga so in between 22 and 20awg). But im lost and confused, got 2 light heads in today and both....beside adding remote to yinding..... Nothing to do besides take pics lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ....Oh and @ cat. The o-ring has a seat around the perimeter that should be at the edge of the optic, but its slightly too big so urs very well may have popped out and fallen when you started to remove the optic. Mine is a little big. Nitefighter needs to know and correct that one, its a nightmare to get it to stay well enough to reassemble...
    I took a look at it again when I got home tonight. This time with fresh eyes. I repositioned the O-ring so it sits closer to the top of the lip but like was said, the o-ring is a little big so hard to say if it's going to remain flush with the underside of the optic. I think it would of been better with a slightly smaller size O-ring and perhaps a tad thicker.

    Anyway, I put it back together and all seems normal as far as I can tell. I'm not feeling or hearing any creaking from the optic so I guess it's seated better. Sometime this week I'll test it with a shower to see how it holds up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    waiting for order from dx to see if those ones are actually 20awg (magic shine arent more like 20ga so in between 22 and 20awg).
    Just cut one of mine open to send light head portion out to the guy custom modding my HD-016. It seems to be 20awg to me. Matches up perfectly to wire bought as and labeled as 20awg.

    -Garry

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    Sweet. I had to do some better measuring of magicshine cable and I guess is kind of is 20awg. Caliper had it slightly below that of my 20awg silicone wire I get from mtnelectronics but much larger than the 22awg china stuff. Plus now using the case from my mudder kd2 kit, magicshine cable for the case on Panasonics I dont get noticable voltage drop even with the roughly 400mA I just boosted my driver

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    I just got specs to Vanc for making gopro adapters for these cause they need a radius machined in them.

    So does anyone else want one???

    Oh wanted to add my beamshot pics from the other night. BT40 vs my modded ssx3. Wasnt fair till I juiced up the bt40 just a tad since ss x3 is boosted a bit too.





    ss X3 on top but because I can use multiple optics styles in one head and its XM-L2 U2s. But BT40 is right there behind it with a solid mix IMO. Id say yinding with a bit more throw mixed in.
    Last edited by tigris99; 04-22-2015 at 08:44 PM.

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    I tested this out tonight. Ran very well and disipated heat very very well. Definitely a nice bar light especially for the money. I don't have my mj 872 on me but from what I remember this is a bit brighter and has a more pleasant tint. One thing I noticed was that the battery indicator is A) very bright like cat said and B) very sensitive to voltage sag. I don't know why but my mj 872 was also like this and from what I hear the mj872 clone also had a similar thing going on. I wonder why that is as I can't imagine it drawing terribly much current. I was running it plugged straight into the case from the kd2/mudder with fresh panasonic 3400's

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    Mine does the same thing, hit turbo button turns blue. On the mudder case which has magicshine cable and Panasonics, when fully charged it takes a few minutes before it switches. And that's with mine having a modded driver now.

    Your matching led to emitter count and they didn't tune the indicator accordingly it seems. I'm hoping once I change everything over to 20awg battery cables that this will be less of an issue.

    And im working on dimming that damn indicator light, its actually quite distracting and messes with my eyes adjusting a bit.

    Really liking this light, waiting for s3 bin 3c's to come back in stock at mtb, im guessing these are running r5's. And found optics options at ledsupply.

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    With higher currents you have to take every bit into account. Welded battery packs withput protection circuit and 20AWG wire would be much better in that regard. Also Panasonics 3400 are not the best if you look the voltage curves alone (put aside the capacity for a moment). Sanyo 2600 and some LG might be bit better.

    You get looses (resistance=voltage drop) on every contact, wires, springs (in battery case), protection circuits and connectors. So minimazing those points you gain some voltage which helps you with signaling leds and performance of course.

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    Iirc our red Panasonics were better in that aspect over green Panasonics. But red had lower max discharge (which really doesn't matter we aren't pulling but half their rating anyway).

    I haven't tried red vs green cells yet. Might charge a set up see the effects on indicator. But solarstorm case vs mudder case I see no visible improvement. Both cases have too for improvement of course.

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    There are very small diiferences at each point including batteries. To be noticeable significantly you would need to improve more than one. Solarstorm and mudder doesn't pull that much current. Up to about 1.5A you won't see any visible effect. Then it is getting expontential.
    I've runt in those problems when dealing with 6up light and regulated driver (ie. pulling constant power). Most those 2 led drivers are not regulated, don't know about BT40s with 4, though. With regulated drivers as voltage drops current raises and so does resistance (ie. loses and additinal voltage drop) getting in loop.

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    Can't find this on their website any more, but according to MagicShine's user manual, the four-color indicator is not accurate when lamp is running (because battery volatage is unstable), only when plugged in and powered off for at least five minutes. So readings are not meant to be taken on the fly. This is more of a drawback for the Nitefighter clone because the indicator does not come on when the lamp is off. But if you just glimpse the color at start up or after letting rest, should be fairly accurate. Guessing this is common to most if not all lamps with any sort of battery charge indicator, because of the dozen I've ridden with, not one is reliable when actually in use. Well, at least the indicator will not make it appear that there is more of a charge remaining than there really is, problem is quite the reverse.

    That said, have found that on the BT40S, when operated in conjuction with the supplied 5200mAh BAK pack, indicator does not drop down as prematurely as with my MagicShine 816 lamps, whose four color LED control button I have learned to ignore.

  33. #33
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    The XP-G2 LEDs have always had high vF. This has been a real problem with single cell flashlights. I'm using 4.35v cells with the xp-g2 flashlight I built for helmet use.

    -Garry

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post

    And found optics options at ledsupply.
    Tigris, make sure you are not looking at the 24mm diameter. BT40S must run like 34mm or so, don't think LEDSupply stocks that. Found the narrower optics on a Chinese site but they never responded to my inquiry.

  35. #35
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    I'm used to the old single emitter lights that would stay on green for hours lol.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    I'm used to the old single emitter lights that would stay on green for hours lol.
    And only put out about 400 lumens, right? Times have changed! Out with the old!

    -Garry

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Tigris, make sure you are not looking at the 24mm diameter. BT40S must run like 34mm or so, don't think LEDSupply stocks that. Found the narrower optics on a Chinese site but they never responded to my inquiry.

    Ya just dug back found your post about that. Nitefighter needs to offer up optics since they obviously have access to all beam patterns.

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    Yep, but I was coming from the old halogens so considering the performance was close and the battery life was better I didn't mind. SSC P7's lol

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    ok I think I found something on this light that is kind of worrisome. Was messing around with the mount trying to install the vancbiker gopro mount on the BT40S when I noticed that the original o-ring mount came with a very short screw and most of the threads on the screw are only attached to the finned portion of the light and by my estimate, probably only 2 or 3 threads(or less) are attached to the solid round hole portion of the lighthead past the finned portion.
    I'm pretty paranoid about the light coming loose from all the bouncing around on a mtb so I think a longer screw is necessary here. I'm not exactly sure what is the longest screw that will fit yet since its too late to go to the hardware store but but I'm going to try M4x8mm and M4x6mm tomorrow when the store is open.

  40. #40
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    you have room to play with but not much. All these stock come with a very short screw, up to use to find the right size crew for our lights to fit the gopro adapters.

    But IMHO (for everyone else) there is no need for a finned mount with these im yet to get mine near as hot as my yinding. Even now that I turned my driver up a fair bit still doesnt get THAT hot, might warrant a finned mount now but not a "need" like the yinding.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    you have room to play with but not much. All these stock come with a very short screw, up to use to find the right size crew for our lights to fit the gopro adapters.

    But IMHO (for everyone else) there is no need for a finned mount with these im yet to get mine near as hot as my yinding. Even now that I turned my driver up a fair bit still doesnt get THAT hot, might warrant a finned mount now but not a "need" like the yinding.
    I think I didn't make myself very clear. I'm saying even with the plastic o-ring mount, you'd need a 6mm screw or 8mm screw to get good thread engagement into the solid portion of the lighthead.
    For the(non-finned) gopro adapter from vancbiker I'll probably need a 12 or 14mm screw.

  42. #42
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    Yes the shell can accomodate like a 2mm longer screw shaft, so you're probably looking at a 10mm screw for the plastic mount and 16mm for Vancbiker's adapter (which unless you spring for the one he customized for the Nitefighter, will have to be shaved down on one end to accomodate the fin on the BT40S that protudes after the area flattened for the original plastic mount.) Make sure to bring the lamp with you into the store to fit, because there can be a bit of variance in length of the screw shaft, both due to margin of error in manufacture and how the head is shaped (as it is included in screw length.) And don't forget the Loctite!

    BTW more worrisome to me is that plastic mount is only about 1mm thick under the rim of the screw head, so may not be able to long withstand the pressure needed to hold it tight, along with the forces mentioned working against it on a MTB. Maybe sealing in a flat washer and topping of with a lock or flex washer could help, there is certainly enough room to play with. Of course that addition woulf have to be factored in to the screw length, could be close to another 2mm.

    EDIT: Problem sorta solved. Washers won't fit, exterior diameters too wide. So picked up a pack of #60 O-rings, stuffed one into the empty recess of the plastic mount, screwed in a SS M4 x 10mm, holds tight. Only flaw, still haven't reinforced the thin layer of plastic below the screw head rim; hoping the O-ring will alleviate enough of the stress to keep the mount from disintegrating right away. Also scored a tube of epoxy putty to be prepared for that eventuality. Incidentally, screw I used was flat head, i.e.: cone shaped. O-ring was able to accommodate that easily, for any of youse guys who can't dig up a 10mm round or pan head M4 locally.
    Last edited by andychrist; 04-28-2015 at 01:31 PM.

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    I leave the sourcing of a mounting screw up the user for the very reasons discussed here. I've had folks tell me that they can only thread ~2-2.5mm into the body of some lights before running out of threads. Some clone lights are threaded into the drive housing and too long a screw can contact driver components.

    The tab on the standard and finned adapter is a bit over 6mm thick. At minimum, a 10mm long screw and a drop of threadlocker is recommended. If someone has a light body with minimal threads, I'd advise getting a slightly too long screw and shortening it just until it tightened up well to get the max possible thread engagement.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  44. #44
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    Andy that mount is pretty standard Chinese light mount, they seem to hold up the same regardless. What kind of plastic used makes a difference. But they are nice enough not to cover up the screw head with the pad.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Andy that mount is pretty standard Chinese light mount, they seem to hold up the same regardless. What kind of plastic used makes a difference. But they are nice enough not to cover up the screw head with the pad.
    No tigris, it is a bit different and tailor made for the BT40S. Edges curve up around the lamp's barrel, which is great, but the circle of material under the screw head rim is much thinner than on most mounts at least on my unit, which also has a choppy, irregular surface on that underside. It is quite fragile looking in comparison to any of my others. But don't really think mine is a fluke, because were the plastic even 1mm thicker there, then the M4 x 8mm screw as what came with it would probably not make it past the fins and into the solid part of the shell at all. To put it another way, am pretty sure I could not break off any of my other plastic mounts from the lamp head without a lot of effort, but am afraid with the BT40S would be all too easy. Um... am not gonna try.

  46. #46
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    I new it was radial formed but looked about the same, so figured cheap china mount like any other. So far mine has given me 0 issues. But that's SO FAR lol.

  47. #47
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    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-nitefighter-duo-back1a.jpgUser Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-nitefighter-duo-back2a.jpg

    also got some Y cables to power this babyes just need to finde some extra time and do a reveiw

  48. #48
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    Interesting idea to run two but as bar lamps go I think one is enough. Still if running two it would be great if there was a quad optic available that offered more throw. Then it would make more sense running one flood and one spot. Other than that if I were to run two I'd just use the standard optic for both. Of course we must remember that a Nitefighter 7-up is suppose to be in the works. As for me I'm fine with just the quad on the bar and a SSX3 on the lid.

    ( edit ) Sorry needed to add more thoughts. Perhaps the proposed duel set-up ( above ) might work out well. I figure if both are kept to the second or third mode that would provide a very wide and usable beam pattern without using up too much battery power.
    I would recommend a good 6-cell battery though ( if using a "Y" cable ).

  49. #49
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    Jesus that would be alotta light.

    My concern would be horrible voltage drop across the y cable trying to pull that much power.

    That said very curious on this. Wonder what run time would look like on 3400 Panasonics.

  50. #50
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    Overkill, I agree but this is just a setup to compare 2 optics.
    Plan is to retrofit one of the lights with MT-G2.

    (edit) 6 or even 8 cell battery pack is a must, 1 and 2 level would be ok with 4 cell battery pack, 3rd level maybe for a short runs but 4th level just draws too much amps and 4 cell battery will not be able to keep up for a long time.
    Y cable I got is quite short, total length is only 28cm and the cables are even thicker than those on lights, not sure what's inside thou, but they fit very nicely and they are waterproof or should I say splashproof.

  51. #51
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    That = badass

  52. #52
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    Aight I need the all you that know more about cree emitters than the rest of us:

    I was looking at going xp-g2 s3, waiting for "in stock" again

    Then it occurred to me, XP-L. LAtest version is v6, at 1.5A is right on par (actually slightly higher) that xm-l2, 100lumens specced higher than best xp-g2. XP series, so would fit the board in the bt40.

    Any reason NOT TO???? Make for one STUPID BRIGHT BT40,lol.

  53. #53
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    It all depends on optics if it does fit the XP-L dome. Unless you dedomed XP-L. But now XP-L High Intensity led just came out and you might not need dedoming any more. See http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr...g/ds%20XPL.pdf

  54. #54
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    Anyone have a retail source for the Cree XP-L? Could only find them on FastTech where all the Neutral Whites were Sold Out, D'oh!

  55. #55

  56. #56
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    or -> here

  57. #57
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    US Sources: XP-L

    Or: LED, Driver, Optic, MCPCB, Wire, Thermal Compound

    There was a post on BLF about opening up XP-G optics slightly using a torx bit in a cordless drill. Or you dedome them to fit them.

    -Garry

  58. #58
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    Do you think they would play nicely with xm-l optics? I have a first gen Gemini olympia that could use some updating, was thinking about taking a different route

  59. #59
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    Might be too loose fitting. Probably some posts on BLF about XP-L in XM-L optics. I really don't know. I don't even own any XP-L's yet.

    -Garry

  60. #60
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    Ok well that was all the info I needed, I was concerned about driver compatibility and such. I'm good have no issues modifying.

    Btw ledoman that spec is cree found people dedoming leds, so they did the same basically cutting the dome way down. But improved output when using optics. Which I just discovered the other night. A 45deg on a dedomed is actually brighter with much less spill then regular dome emitter with a 45 deg optic.

  61. #61
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    Tigris, dedomed gets you more throw ie. narower beam so it looks brighter in its spot. You already know that. I hate using the word brighter which to the most people means more light (lumens). It shurely gives you more lux. Just need to comment it.....

  62. #62
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    Well what im hoping is this works like it does when I changed optics on the yinding from spot to wide spot, minimal spill much more controlled beam, so area light where I needed the light is actually better lit.

  63. #63
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    This is a really nice light, used it again tonight and it is fantastic on the bars. I do have those issues with the indicator changing early and I know it's super sensitive as I was running the mudder case with ncr18650pf (high drain) cells this time, no extension, straight into the port on the case so less than a foot of cable total. It's a great flooder and seems to have very good thermal transfer out of the box

  64. #64
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    so right now getting less sure about my plan.....lol. No way xp-l will fit stock optics and after expiramenting using mj880 clone, the dedoming idea, unless i want to be searching for aircraft, isnt going to go so well on the bt40 lol. 2 xm-l2 u4 1c dedomed running almost right at TRUE 3A, I could land a plain but hell if it was any good beyond that.

    Sirius' link looks promising (price is half what I pay in the states for emitters but I get in 3-4 days instead of 3-4 weeks lol) since be a while before MTN has g2 S3 back in stock in 3c tint.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    It all depends on optics if it does fit the XP-L dome. Unless you dedomed XP-L. But now XP-L High Intensity led just came out and you might not need dedoming any more. See http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr...g/ds%20XPL.pdf
    Interesting; I didn't know there was an upgraded version of the XP-L. Very good news that is. Stats on the XP-L ( high density ) look promising.

    The BT40S looks like a lamp that might be easier to mod. I don't know how much current is passing through each LED but if it's near 1.2A , if you could mod with a quad XP-L ( High Density ) and find a quad optic to fit the lamp you could conceivably get ~ 2000 lumen OTF ( with neutral LED's ) with no driver mod. Depends of course on how much current is available and of course if you can find a quad emitter board and optic that will fit the current set-up. That said, might be a while till such becomes available. Might be one of the reasons why there is no Nitefighter 7-up yet.

    Tonight I go out to test my neutral lamps again. While out there I plan to test the torch I have with ( cool white ) XP-L emitter. Most of the time though I'll be focused on the BT40S and the provided battery. Things are turning green in my area so I might be able to get some interesting photo's.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Sirius' link looks promising (price is half what I pay in the states for emitters but I get in 3-4 days instead of 3-4 weeks lol)...
    Yes, IO has nice stuff and I just love those red Noctigon boards
    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-goodies.jpg
    Shipping time is what it is but since I am not in US ordering from there would cost me significantly (opposite to shipping from China) and shipping time would be only slightly shorter.
    Also some TIR optics to test with BT21, anyone care to donate one light
    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-goodies2.jpg

  67. #67
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    As of today BT40S (full set) is available @ GearBest.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    As of today BT40S (full set) is available @ GearBest.
    WTF? They're asking $104.26 as if that's a genuine, 60% discount over a list price of $258.37; where as it's still on sale for $69.95 over at Amazon (USA) where the list price says $169.95. Guess maybe reasonable for those without Amazon access, when compared to other packages in the same class. MagicShine version is the about the same price but not as good.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    WTF? They're asking $104.26 as if that's a genuine, 60% discount over a list price of $258.37; where as it's still on sale for $69.95 over at Amazon (USA) where the list price says $169.95. Guess maybe reasonable for those without Amazon access, when compared to other packages in the same class. MagicShine version is the about the same price but not as good.
    Agree, the price on Gearbest doesn't make sense.

  70. #70
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    Amazon does not deliver to my country, I can only order from aliexpres for about 120$.

  71. #71
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    Get the bt40 off eBay, priced much better.

    I will address the bt40 price in a bit with gearbest.

  72. #72
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    That BT40S package on eBay, does it ship worldwide? Says "Ships to: United States" on eBay USA, maybe it's different for some other countries? Found it on eBay.de but even there, only ships to US (from China.) Doesn't appear on U.K. site at all.

  73. #73
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    Its cause of your ip Andy. EBay pulls your ip for country. Other countries will show other options or you should be able to physically select other countries

  74. #74
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    Well that's what I suspected but even when on the foreign sites the option to ship to another country still only showed US.

    NITEFIGHTER BT40S 1600 lumens LED Bike Light -(Full Set) | eBay

    I've purchased lots of crap from both the UK and German eBay sites before, wasn't a problem because the vendors shipped internationally. Wonder if anyone on this forum outside the USA can get the Nitefighter from their own country's eBay site.

  75. #75
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    Btw bt40 gone off amazon....

    Gearbest price issue being fixed as we speak (yeap we're already on top of it . )

  76. #76

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    ^Lifetime warranty too!

  78. #78
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    Wtf when I did a search said unavailable

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    Second Ride with BT40S

    Went out Sunday night for a really nice night ride. Absolutely beautiful crystal clear sky with the brightest full moon I've seen in some time. Unfortunately I had problem right from the get-go. Seems I forgot to bring the Nitefighter battery. That meant I had to use the battery for the SSX3 for the BT40S. Luckily I did bring the XP-L torch along ( for the lid ) so I used that when needed for the faster stuff.

    First thing I noticed on the ride was that I really wasn't using the helmet torch all that much. The BT40S was looking really good. The thing that continues to surprise me is that the 40S has a really good low mode. I was amazed at how well the lamp works on low. Not that I didn't use the other modes, I did. I really was picking up on all the odd trail obstacles even though much of the trail was still covered with pine needles and other leaf debris. I just love the warmth of the neutral lamps as it makes it so much easier to see all the little details usually lost with the cooler bin LED's

    Another observation I couldn't help to notice was that regardless of the mode I was using I could always see beyond the main cone of illumination even if the light was faint. I guess this means that even though the throw suffers a bit you can still see quite a ways, even when on low. Most of the time I never notice stuff like this simply because I'm usually running a helmet lamp with more throw. I found it very satisfying to find a lamp at this price range to be working so well. On a side note I think the race crowd might like this lamp simply because the lamp works so good on the lowest modes. Obviously being able to run minimal light for extended periods ( and still be able to see at medium or slow speeds ) would be a great advantage while in a race. Not to mention if you're running low on juice the lamp battery is going to last longer if run on the lower modes.

    I tried to take some photos of the lamp on low but the camera I'm using doesn't really do it justice. The photo on high turned out pretty good so I'll include that below..

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-img_20150504_062833_zpsbbhkteph.jpg

    Now just add the output from a neutral SSX3 to that photo for extra throw and you have an excellent combo. Truthfully though I was doing fine with just the 40S on the bars. BTW, the 40S worked fine with the XP-L torch on the lid. While I'm sure the SSX3 would of been great ( if just for the over-kill ) I was doing fine with the single XP-L on the lid. Add to that the trail I was riding was in excellent condition and was super fast. I almost didn't want to go home.

  80. #80
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    Yeah, I have to agree that the low is very useable. The yinding up top, although not a super defined spot, blended very nicely with the nitefighter. Here's the yinding on medium, the bt40 on 3/4 from saturday

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    Just noticed the BT40S package including battery has been reduced on Gearbest to $57.12! That looks about right now.

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    Confusing that Package contents lists everything but still says in Description

    Powered by four BAK 18650 rechargeable Li-on batteries, 7.4V 5200mAh( not included )

    Would be a good deal for the entire package but I'd hesitate to order before further clarification.

  83. #83
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    Fwiw, if they are still honoring the coupon which Andy said he would for mtbr members, it's actually about the same price on Amazon and will arrive in 2 days

  84. #84
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    I got something coming with that, hold on

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    I just finished the first of the water testings. The first is without any modding. I sat the lamp under the shower attachment on my kitchen sink for 30 minutes making sure that a good bit was hitting the front where I'm guessing is it's weak point.

    The lamp still works but I did notice a small bit of water got inside ( a couple drops ). I will emphasize not very much but I would have preferred to not see any leakage at all. All things considered the lamp is not marketed as being "waterproof" and makes no claim to be so. That said it is true to it's word.

    Going forward, finding a slightly bigger O-ring or adding some grease to the outer front retaining ring should help immensely. Seeing that my KD2 Duo clone has optics that rattle slightly I would think the BT40S would be more trustworthy on the bars without modding.

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    Third Ride Nitefighter BT40S; First test of the battery

    Finally had a chance Saturday to give the BT40S ( with included battery ) another good run through. I rode one of my favorite trails and the trail that I tested the Xeccon Spiker 1211 helmet lamp on just last year.

    Saturday the trails were in absolute the finest conditions I have ever seen. Where I live the weather has been unusually warm for Spring and unusually dry. Everything is green and beautiful and I was feeling great. Everything went as expected and I quickly began to enjoy my ride. With everything so dry I found I was moving along very quickly. With the BT40S on the bars and my SSX3 ( neutral LED's for both lamps ) on the helmet, I was seeing everything on the trails way before I needed to.

    Since I was using the Nitefighter battery for the first time I wanted to make sure that I was using more power than what I usually used. Most of the time I kept the lamp in it's third highest mode and only dropped down to lower levels when either walking, resting or on a really slow climb. Temps were in the 70's ( Fahrenheit ) and has been the warmest and most humid ride I've taken this year. I love warm weather so I was in my element. I could tell the 40S was getting mildly warm ( to the touch ) but otherwise the lamp never got too hot. Most of the time I only used the Solarstorm X3 on low but to check how well the BT40S was working occasionally I would turn the X3 off, especially on the slower climbs or on the straighter level sections. On the faster downhills I would turn the Bt40S on high and the X3 on medium. On those settings I could see everything I needed to see.

    Once again I'm noticing a big difference between lamps that use the cooler LED's vs. the neutral LED's. With the neutral LED's I'm seeing many more subtle trail features and it is my opinion that this is making me choose the better lines when negotiating the more rugged terrain. This fact alone is making me a better night rider simply by giving me the ability to see the more hidden trail features better. This translates over to giving me more confidence when riding at night. Tonight I saw this effect first hand as I approached a very knarly short downhill section towards the end of the ride. Previously I always ended up walking this section because the rock formations always appeared very intimidating. For some reason when I approached this same section using the neutral lamps the same rocks that had appeared very ominous before using the cooler LED lamps looked less threatening. Matter of fact so less threatening that the whole section looked completely different. This time I just picked my line and went over the rocks only to realize the moment I cleared the section that THIS was the section I always walked. Wow! I was impressed. I'm sold on the neutral set-ups, at least when it comes to dry conditions.

    Okay, almost forgot to comment on the battery. The battery did very well. Toward the end of the ride I had the Bt40S on full high. When I was minutes to getting back to the car, only then did the battery indicator go from green to blue. My ride was faster than usual and I forgot to check my watch when I left so I'm thinking I rode about 1 hr 45 minutes to 2 hrs. Not bad for an included battery provided by the Chinese. Still I need to completely discharge the battery to see how much longer it will run. I'll try to do that on tomorrow's ride so I get a better idea of the capacity but my gut feeling is that the battery is indeed a very good 5200mAh battery. I won't know for sure though until tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll bring a back up along so I have a spare just in case the battery bonks before I'm done my ride.

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    Good stuff Cat! I didn't realize that you had the whole kit with the battery too. I'm going to be going out tonight and I think I'm gonna have to try their battery. I'm ashamed to say that I now have so many battery packs and have been riding so little that the only real "testing" that they get has been on a hobby charger. You have me wondering though, as my bt40 went to blue in about 20 minutes using ncr18650pf in the mudder case, that maybe lights like this with sensitive voltage displays will fare better with a welded pack vs spring connections

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    4th Ride with BT40S: Part II of battery test

    Sunday the ride I did was on a different trail, more debris, more short up and down hills and not too many easy level sections. When I started the ride I tried to keep the same mind set as previously, "Use more light than needed". No problems on the level and downhills but the climbs tended to be on very slow and rutted rock strewn trails. With that in mind I had to drop the power to low on those slower climbs because to do so otherwise would of likely caused the lamp to overheat and I really didn't want that to happen.

    Anyway, when I started the ride the battery was at the previous discharge level as when I finished my last ride. When I first turned the lamp on the indicator was green. This was probably due to the effect known as battery rebound. After a couple minutes it quickly went back to blue. Like I mentioned before I tried to run more power than I usually do. Regardless I was able to complete my loop in about 1hr and 40 minutes. Even when I used the highest output for some of the better ( short ) downhills the indicator never change from blue. Once again, I was surprised by this. That meant I had rode two nights for a total of ~ 3.5 hr. ( and using more output than I would normally use ). Not bad for a battery using 4 x 2600mAh Bak cells.

    When I got home I decided I would have to try to see how much more I could deplete the battery. I set the BT40S to the 3rd output mode, put a fan on it and just let it run. **After 14 minutes the indicator changed to yellow. During this test I also monitored the heat on the outer casing. After about 10 minutes the lamp hovered and maintained ~ 111-112F. ( with fan ) (***Ambient room temp was 79F in my home )

    The lamp continued to run on the yellow indicator for quite some time. During that time the output never dropped down to a lower mode level. I checked it a couple times just to make sure. **Seventy minutes after the lamp indicator changed to yellow the indicator changed to Red! Wow! and still the lamp output did not drop from the 3rd mode. After the indicator changed to red I ran the lamp another 20 minutes and then decided to stop the test. That lamp never did leave the 3rd mode level.

    All things considered, I feel this battery is one damn good battery. I ran the battery a total of 5 hrs and 3 minutes with power to spare. During that time I used way more power than I would normal use when I do my typical rides. While I perhaps only ran the highest output level no more than 10 minutes I did use the next highest level WAY MORE than what I would have normally needed to. Make of this what you will but I'm pretty impressed.

    (*side notes: After about 45 minutes on yellow the lamp got a little hotter ( 115F ) as the driver circuit no doubt worked harder to maintain the same output. Once the indicator turned red the lamp began to cool as the battery voltage no doubt began to drop below where the driver could compensate. )

  89. #89
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    Supposedly Fenix used the same cells for their 2600 mah protected 18650's and this was HKJ test on them for those who are interested. His tests seemed to confirm that they were top notch

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-(Black)/page2

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    Just another fact about the BT40S I forgot to mention before; While using the lamp the lamp ( with O-ring ) held in place very well but was still easy to adjust when needed. Regardless I would very much prefer to have either a standard tilt-mount or something like a Gopro mount. The reason being that this lamp has 4 mode levels and since I like to switch mode levels a lot on the fly the lamp would tend to move a little while pressing to change modes. With O-ring mounting I'm not sure I can do anything about that. I figure a mount that "clamps" would have the ability to adjust tension. Looks like I might look into buying a Gopro mount for the bars but it's not a major issue.

    I took a couple good photos last night but just haven't had time yet to upload them. Damn, already late for work. I'll try to post them tonight when I come home.

  91. #91
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    Nice, be good to have a budget light set up that doesn't use crappy batteries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Just another fact about the BT40S I forgot to mention before; While using the lamp the lamp ( with O-ring ) held in place very well but was still easy to adjust when needed. Regardless I would very much prefer to have either a standard tilt-mount or something like a Gopro mount. The reason being that this lamp has 4 mode levels and since I like to switch mode levels a lot on the fly the lamp would tend to move a little while pressing to change modes. With O-ring mounting I'm not sure I can do anything about that. I figure a mount that "clamps" would have the ability to adjust tension. Looks like I might look into buying a Gopro mount for the bars but it's not a major issue.
    Cat, it's kinda difficult to adjust the tension on the alloy GoPro mount, dunno about the plastic ones. I'd had the same idea as you but found the MagicShine style mounts with the O-rings are a bit easier to re-aim on the fly, even though they do have the tendency to spring back some. Would be neat if there were GoPro mounts with limit screws that you could set to High and Low Beam positions, that way you could just flip the lamp up or down as far as it could go without having to make further adjustments. As it stands now the motion is rough and you still have to restrain the lamp when changing modes, unless you've set the clamp so tight that it can't be rotated at all on the fly.

  93. #93
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    Hell this is why I like gopro mount, I can set it and it does move. Done. Magicshine a step down/small drop it sometimes moves. Hell a pothole on the street has caused heavier of my lights to move. Crank a gopro mount tight and I don't have to worry about anything. But lights like my ssx3 and bt40 for me have a good enough mix in beam that the need for more throw when it arises is covered by my yinding on the lid.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Hell this is why I like gopro mount, I can set it and it does move. Done. Magicshine a step down/small drop it sometimes moves. Hell a pothole on the street has caused heavier of my lights to move. Crank a gopro mount tight and I don't have to worry about anything. But lights like my ssx3 and bt40 for me have a good enough mix in beam that the need for more throw when it arises is covered by my yinding on the lid.
    Ideally it would be great to adapt the BT40S to an old Marwi ( Tilting ) mount. I believe EL34 has a couple MS type adapters listed on his website for use with the old Marwi quick release mounts. There are other options but likely I just need a better O-ring. Originally when I was using the 40S I used one of my old Bikeray ( red silicone ) O-rings. I made the mistake of trying to take it off with something too sharp and it cut the damn ring... I only have one of those left and it's being used on the Gloworm. AFAIK, the red silicone O-rings work the best. The small version is super tight. Now I need to know where to buy more of those.

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    So just because I can, I got and installed xp-g2 s3 3c emitters.....so....much....light lol.



    Only light I have that can match it/out perform it now is my modded mj880 clone. Which is 2 xm-l2 u2 3c running at true 3A (well 2.9-3A) on a 15 and 45 leddna optics. And the bt40 is pretty dang close now. Was even with my modded x3.

    Can't believe how easy it is now to get stupid amounts of light in small packages that can product the light for a couple hours between charges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    So just because I can, I got and installed xp-g2 s3 3c emitters.....so....much....light lol.



    Only light I have that can match it/out perform it now is my modded mj880 clone. Which is 2 xm-l2 u2 3c running at true 3A (well 2.9-3A) on a 15 and 45 leddna optics. And the bt40 is pretty dang close now. Was even with my modded x3.

    Can't believe how easy it is now to get stupid amounts of light in small packages that can product the light for a couple hours between charges.
    Did you change each led individually or is there a 4 led board you used?

  97. #97
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    Changed each on individually

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    Tigris99, surprised you didn't go with XP-L's. Or is that mod reserved for the next BT40s lighthead?

    -Garry

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    Xp-ls dont fit the optics and didn't want to risk an optic to see if I could make it work cause only optic I have.

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    Didn't want to risk the "torx bit trick"?

    -Garry

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    Aside from a different beam pattern, what is the advantage of going to xp-l? Are they more efficient?

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    Generally for more lumens. They are basically XM-L(2) output in XP-G(2) size.

    -Garry

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    Nah I didn't want to because it defeats the purpose, loose output from loss of clarity in optics.



    If I had spare optics then I would experiment with it, but I don't since they didnt include the second optic in lighthead only option. And the driver best guess right now is pushing around 1A/emitter on turbo.

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    BT40S: Beam Shots

    These beam shots were taken on my last night ride. This is with the standard optics. The first was taken looking up a small hill and is using the 2nd mode level. As you can tell, level 2 looks pretty bright.

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-bt40s-lev-2.jpg

    The second photo ( below ) was taken on a different section and is using the full output. Once again, output looks very bright.

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-bt40s-hi.jpg

    Strangely I found that taking the photos from right behind the lamp tended to yield a better quality photo. Actually to me the photo's look brighter in the foreground than what my eyes detected while in the field. Once again the limitations of the camera are limiting the amount of light that is seen in the distance. I think this is because my eyes seemed less sensitive to the foreground light when on higher levels than the camera. This probably explains why I could see somewhat further than what the photos indicate. Since I'm just using the camera on my Droid Max I would think a better camera might yield a more accurate photo. Still, all things considered these are not bad pictures.

    One thing the photos do illustrate is the beam pattern. For the most part the beam pattern is very similar to my Gloworm X2. While the GW-X2 might provide more throw and a slightly wider beam pattern the BT40S puts a lot of light down where you want it, including right under the front wheel. Actually I noticed while using the BT40S that the body of the GWX2 ( which I kept mounted on my bars but not in use ) was casting a VERY noticeable shadow very close to the bike. I thought that worth mentioning.

  105. #105
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    Very nice! Freaking constant rain lately has been keeping dirt trails closed but im going out this weekend to paved path again to do a side by side test of all my lights. Bt40 so far with my back yard "testing" its amazing the mix of throw and flood is insane for one light.

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    Hi, first post but been reading a while.
    I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.
    I've today tested the current draw and Wattage on both of these and the red gearbest Yinding.
    Anyway as this is the BT40S review thread my results were:
    1.84A at 7.47V giving 13.7W.
    Which assuming 4V at emitters (fv plus driver) would equate to 0.85A per LED. As i understand with efficiency losses etc this probably results in around 880lm total.
    These results are a little less than i expected given the good reviews this lights been getting in practice and in comparison to others. But it appears under powered when compared to the MJ872 which i understand to be at around 17-18w?

    out of interest, the BT21 came with frosted lenses (or ccover glass). Its results were 7.2v and 2.8A so 20W. However the volts were dropping by the second and dropped from 7.27v to 7.18v in seconds wuth a differnt battery it dropped from 7.18v to 7.00v in around 20 secs.

    just to round off the Yinding ran at 7.34v and 2.25A so around 16.5w.

    Non of the tests were carried out for more than a minute or two, so that may need to be taken into account.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc71 View Post
    Hi, first post but been reading a while.
    I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.
    I've today tested the current draw and Wattage on both of these and the red gearbest Yinding.
    Anyway as this is the BT40S review thread my results were:
    1.84A at 7.47V giving 13.7W.
    Which assuming 4V at emitters (fv plus driver) would equate to 0.85A per LED. As i understand with efficiency losses etc this probably results in around 880lm total.
    These results are a little less than i expected given the good reviews this lights been getting in practice and in comparison to others. But it appears under powered when compared to the MJ872 which i understand to be at around 17-18w?
    Interesting. The claim from Nitefighter is that the lamp produces 1600 lumen. While admittedly I'm not sure if the BT40S attains to that level I'm not too experienced in judging the outputs ( visually ) from the neutral LEDs ( yet ).

    Since I'm not about to confirm your findings by testing current draw at the emitters ( I'll let someone else do that ) I'll just mention some things to consider. Nitefighter doesn't mention the emitter group being used ( refer to Cree chart on XP-G2 neutral ). That said I really don't know how they can claim 1600 lumen unless they are referring to a group above R3 and using more than 1A through each of the LED's.

    I should also mention here that according to the Cree charts the "Minimal luminous flux" for the XP-G2 neutral LED (R3) at 1A ( also listed as 3volts per emitter ) is about 297 lumen ( nominal ). Since I'm assuming a 2S/2P emitter configuration, even at the current levels you mentioned ( divided by 2 ) that would be very close to 1A going through each emitter ( close to 6 volts across the emitter load according to the charts ).

    Obviously, I have to be assuming a lot of things when it comes to the electrical specifications / configuration of the BT40S but my gut feeling is that the lamp outputs more than 880 lumen. 1200 lumen I could believe but 880 would be hard to swallow. When I get a chance I'll try to do some lux comparisons with my older Gloworm X2 ( 1200 lumen version ). While it won't be quite an "Apples to Apples" comparison I'll try to set things up so I'll at least get a general idea of luminous output from the BT40S. Regardless, I still like the output of the BT40S as is, not to mention the 4-mode levels are very useful.

    Anyway, if you're right it would help explain the long run times if nothing else. Meanwhile, I'll try to see if someone else can confirm your findings.

    ( * Wow! Glad I delayed my ride tonight. Really big storm just came through and much faster than I previously thought. On the upside I just got a free ( badly needed ) car wash )

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    Hi, i guess with a 2s2p set-up and the same assumptions ie fv plus 1v at driver and 80% eff then you do achieve a slightly higher current at emitters of 0.97A and circa 950lm. So whether series, parallel or 2s2p would make a slight difference. And as you say the LEDs may be better than R3.
    So my calculated amps at emitters may be slightly out and this would also mean the lumen also being slightly out.
    The comparison of watts used between the BT40S, BT21 and Yinding is i suppose still a valid comparison. From this you'd expect greater runtime from the BT40s, and less from the BT21 which is essentially also what Nitefighter suggest.
    I don't own the MJ872 so cant compare watts or current between that and the BT40s, but i had read different reviews that suggested 17w-18w for the MJ872. LEDs have moved on so you may get more out of less when comparing the new BT40s and older MJ872.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc71 View Post
    Hi, first post but been reading a while.


    I've recently bought a few new chinese bike lights including the BT21 and BT40S both in light head only from ebay auctions.


    I've today tested the current draw and Wattage on both of these and the red gearbest Yinding.


    Anyway as this is the BT40S review thread my results were:


    1.84A at 7.47V giving 13.7W.


    Which assuming 4V at emitters (fv plus driver) would equate to 0.85A per LED. As i understand with efficiency losses etc this probably results in around 880lm total.


    These results are a little less than i expected given the good reviews this lights been getting in practice and in comparison to others. But it appears under powered when compared to the MJ872 which i understand to be at around 17-18w?





    out of interest, the BT21 came with frosted lenses (or ccover glass). Its results were 7.2v and 2.8A so 20W. However the volts were dropping by the second and dropped from 7.27v to 7.18v in seconds wuth a differnt battery it dropped from 7.18v to 7.00v in around 20 secs.





    just to round off the Yinding ran at 7.34v and 2.25A so around 16.5w.





    Non of the tests were carried out for more than a minute or two, so that may need to be taken into account.


    Your current calculations are spot on except your vf is off. And your testing at mid voltage not at fresh 8.4v pack which is where they rate the lamp. Also wattage only means so much, more emitters at less current produce more light (efficiency higher at lower current)



    HOWEVER:



    Your calculations of of lumen output is way off. Not sure where your getting your lumen ratings for the emitters but is extremely low. Emitters used are xp-g2 r5. Like all lamps they are rating lumens high in the descriptions but actual is around 1300 lumens. .85A/emitter is right, they are set up 2s2p on the star, but emitters used before loss from optics at 800mah is 1600 lumens (rounded for total on all 4) then take out losses at the front, assuming 20% loss from optics and your @ ~1320 lumens visual.



    And this is done with these assumptions:



    Low end of output rating on a R5 bin, output could be as much as 40 lumens per emitter more.



    That the optics have only a 80% efficiency rating, and except for the cheapest Chinese optics, normal rating is 83-87% efficient.

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    All I know is that if the bt21 is sucking up that much current it's a beast

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    Well if optics are good then the bt21 just became a yinding killer for output. Sounds like bt21 is running what MY modded yinding is now

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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    All I know is that if the bt21 is sucking up that much current it's a beast
    ^^...we can hope.

    About the BT40S lumen rating: Well, if the current going through each LED is 850ma ( per tigress99 ) then here's the math according to the Cree charts;

    Based on min. current input ( 350ma ) ( temp @ emitter junction 85C ) and using the highest bin neutral XP-G2 ( R5 )... using the chart > "Relative Luminous Flux vs. current ( % )", I plot a 225% increase from the 100% mark ( 350ma to 850ma ). The lumen output at 100% ( @ 350ma ) is 139 lumen ( @ 85C )...therefore,

    ...139 x 225% = 292.5 lumen. This is of course after it has reached 85C. At start up it is likely more like 355.5 lumen ( per led ) according to the chart.

    All of this is of course less than the 1600 lumen claimed by Nitefighter. I generally don't factor in optic losses but with optic and thermal losses considered I don't think 1200 lumen output ( OTFA > Out the Front Average ) would be too far from the truth as long as you don't over-heat the lamp. Considering there is a potential swing in output between 1168-1420 lumen, this just makes sense to me. ( this is assuming a current of 850ma. per LED )

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    Cat, the bt40 thermal management keeps emitter from reaching 85C. 85C is max temp before burnout. Hence where my calculations come in. 25C is optimal for star temp for max output. I add "x" degs Celsius (or if head allows I use my thermal couple on dmm for true reading at star) based on thermal path in head. So bt40, yinding, ones where mcpcb is mounted against the case directly, I add 2 deg C, ones like ss x3 and mj880 clone where pressed pills should be used but are not, I add 5-10 C to case temp since thermal path sucks so heat builds up more. Then figure output from there.

    I can bet my bt40s calculations on a solid, fully charged pack, are within 5-10% of a true sphere test (up or down).

    Ya I WAY over think this stuff, but without the equipment to do a lumen test, I have to use what I do have for data (temps, current, vf) use the base data graphs for starting point, cross the bin version output rating at rated current against the main graph to show true output of the current emitter bin at the driven current.

    These let me over think and rack my brain in a manner thats fun, useful and helpful.

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    tigris, where do you get 85C as the maximum operating temperature? From everything I have read, it is simply the typical operating temperature, when the ambient is 25. Maximum temperature is like 130 - 150C (at which point lumens fall to 0. Optimal temperature is actually around -30C.) Can't find the reference to Cree in particular, but here is just about the same thing written about a comparable LED from Osram, which explains why binning has changed from 25C:

    Osram is characterizing and binning the new Oslon Square LEDs at 85C because that temperature is more typical than 25C that has been the typical level used for characterization in the industry for data sheets. Higher binning temperature, however, is no longer new as many manufacturers now follow that path. But Osram said that a new device architecture allows its new square LEDs to operate at even higher junction temperatures.

    Osram optimizes square LED for higher operating temperatures and indoor SSL - LEDs

    From my understanding 85 is (typically) the maximum temperature to prevent long-term burn out, preserving the life of the LED to something like 70% efficiency over the course of 50,000 hours. But going over 85C should certainly not fry the LED immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Cat, the bt40 thermal management keeps emitter from reaching 85C. 85C is max temp before burnout. Hence where my calculations come in. 25C is optimal for star temp for max output. I add "x" degs Celsius (or if head allows I use my thermal couple on dmm for true reading at star) based on thermal path in head. So bt40, yinding, ones where mcpcb is mounted against the case directly, I add 2 deg C, ones like ss x3 and mj880 clone where pressed pills should be used but are not, I add 5-10 C to case temp since thermal path sucks so heat builds up more. Then figure output from there.

    I can bet my bt40s calculations on a solid, fully charged pack, are within 5-10% of a true sphere test (up or down).

    Ya I WAY over think this stuff, but without the equipment to do a lumen test, I have to use what I do have for data (temps, current, vf) use the base data graphs for starting point, cross the bin version output rating at rated current against the main graph to show true output of the current emitter bin at the driven current.

    These let me over think and rack my brain in a manner thats fun, useful and helpful.
    According to the Cree Chart ( the very first one ) the max temperature before failure is 150C. I think Cree came up with the 85C rating because they were trying to provide a typical PN junction temperature by which the buyer could rate the useability of the emitter under typical conditions ( or so I have read to understand ). Earlier Cree power LED's had to maintain much lower temps in order to limit thermal losses. When Cree introduced the XM-L2 and XP-G2 LED's the thermal design of the emitter was improved to help control thermal losses. Keep the emitter junction from reaching 85C and you've done well. The 25C temperature reference is the ambient temperature of the emitter before being used. That is a laboratory standard that is only used in reference to start up temperature.

    I have no idea what the junction temperature is on any of the led's being used in any of the lamps while I am using them. I suppose I could measure that without too much issue but I'm trusting that the design of the lamp is providing enough thermal management to keep thermal losses between 10-15%. This I consider acceptable.

    On lamps that I have tested ( using fans to provide typical cooling ) I see temperatures on the outer body in the 45C range. That means the emitter is "At least" at that temperature. Thermal management is a very complex science and involves knowing the thermal resistances of all the materials being used to control heat. It also involves the cooling effects of air and how that aids to manage the heat. There is a certain amount of time it takes for the materials involved to sink away the heat from the PN junction. That said it is quite possible that the PN junction is actually hotter than the external heat sink of the lamp body at any given time. This is why when I run my lamps I always use only the power needed for the moment.

    I think we all know that the Chinese lamps are not noted for their great thermal properties. I always keep that in mind when using mine. Keeping the lamp cool ( by limiting current being used ) also has the added unrelated side effect of prolonging the run-time of the battery.

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    The 85C is "testing parameters" by Cree. Not an absolute. Die temps can change based on how lights are used, how the thermal management is etc. Emitters dont just go to 85C and thats how they run.

    THe 25C is the "other test standard" or "previous" and for our case, closer to actual. I have measured temps directly behind a xm-l2 running at 2.5A on a copper direct thermal mcpcb, never got any where near 85C. And my test at max error in that set up would be around 5-7deg C. Hottest I got it was 65C which was enough to trigger thermal shut down on driver (55C iirc at thermal resistor).

    This is why copper direct thermal mcpcbs are so good, keeps the die temps lower by transfering heat away from the die faster. Which in turn allows more light, the cooler they run, the more light they produce because less current is wasted as heat.

    I did find I read old info, they are better able to handle heat now, so 85C isnt bad, but its still a "testing parameter" not a "operating temperature". Operating temps all depend on application.

    Edit: Example, KD2 with its crappy thermal on high, 85C probably, bt40, no way, head barely gets warm with 4 of them cranking out heat. Hell I pushed mine up by about 300mA on the driver, still turbo takes forever to get that head warm.

    This is why people do sphere testing, because trying to control and measure exact temp at die outside of a specified lab enviroment is impossible. Me i go off calculations, which may be a bit off due to my "assumed" die temp is a bit lower than actual, but that why I also watch my lux meter close when i first turn light on and watch for any immediate drop like I see with KD2's (which you can see visually)

    Edit again (didnt see Cats post). Cat were on the same page, I should have just worded better to start with, less confusing lol.

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    Aight Cat, got Pics (and video uploading now) of the paved path ride tonight. Freaking rain keeping dirt closed but had to get out and test out the BT40 and my modded mj880 clone.

    Bt40: On high not turbo so output matches stock turbo (I slightly boosted mine)



    MJ880 Clone: u2 3C on noctigons and running at roughly 2.9A



    ssx3 boosted to 1.8A actual, with optics and noctigons. Running full 2A actual was pissing the driver off so I cut it back.



    mj880 pic I didnt realize was looking that bad (must have moved when I snapped the pic) and I didnt realize it was pointed too far down (used it for light to ride through town to path)

    BT40 Rocks!!!

    Oh and tested out the yinding on a bit wider beam set up, goes well with the bt40, while riding looks like i have light FORVER:



    Ill post my little "ride" video where i cycle through all 3 lights on the bars.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    The 85C is "testing parameters" by Cree. Not an absolute. Die temps can change based on how lights are used, how the thermal management is etc. Emitters dont just go to 85C and thats how they run.

    THe 25C is the "other test standard" or "previous" and for our case, closer to actual. I have measured temps directly behind a xm-l2 running at 2.5A on a copper direct thermal mcpcb, never got any where near 85C. And my test at max error in that set up would be around 5-7deg C. Hottest I got it was 65C which was enough to trigger thermal shut down on driver (55C iirc at thermal resistor).

    This is why copper direct thermal mcpcbs are so good, keeps the die temps lower by transfering heat away from the die faster. Which in turn allows more light, the cooler they run, the more light they produce because less current is wasted as heat.

    I did find I read old info, they are better able to handle heat now, so 85C isnt bad, but its still a "testing parameter" not a "operating temperature". Operating temps all depend on application.

    Edit: Example, KD2 with its crappy thermal on high, 85C probably, bt40, no way, head barely gets warm with 4 of them cranking out heat. Hell I pushed mine up by about 300mA on the driver, still turbo takes forever to get that head warm.

    This is why people do sphere testing, because trying to control and measure exact temp at die outside of a specified lab enviroment is impossible. Me i go off calculations, which may be a bit off due to my "assumed" die temp is a bit lower than actual, but that why I also watch my lux meter close when i first turn light on and watch for any immediate drop like I see with KD2's (which you can see visually)

    Edit again (didnt see Cats post). Cat we're on the same page, I should have just worded better to start with, less confusing lol.
    Yes, we are on the same page. I wasn't implying that emitters rise to 85C immediately or that they always reach that level ( or that they should be operated at that level ). They can however be designed to run at that level if the person building the lamp chooses to do so. Keep in mind these LED's are really designed for other types of lamp use. As users of bike lamps we get to use the design for our own purpose. The people who design the LED drivers with electronic thermal management for bike lamps are trying to help protect the LED's because they KNOW the lamps using them are not going to be able to properly control the heat when used at maximum current levels. Moving on....

    I haven't had a lot of time using my KD2 Duo clone. Like you I know the thermal problems with the lamp but considering the crappy thermal design of the emitter area and the relative small size of the lamp I really don't know if there is a lot that can be done about it without major modding. Since I have the BT40S I'm not really too worried about the KD2. It is what it is. It works but like you said, output drops when it starts to heat up. I might mess with it later but right now I just want to ride...Like you I got rained out tonight as well...total PITA.

    About the SSX3; I've considered doing the resistor mode to the driver but if the lamp has thermal cut-off issues that might kick in I'm not sure I'll go that route. I might just go ahead, bite the bullet and get another XT40 ( l like the one I have ) but this time buy the "Neutral" version.

    On a side note I'm considering buying a new Gloworm X2 with neutral LED's. I was going to just upgrade one of my old ones but if I did that I would still lose the "programmable" feature of the newer versions. Hummm...maybe I'll send in my newer X2 and just pay for the upgrades...decisions, decisions.

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    Hi, my initial xpg2 datasheet did only go to R3 and this was what I'd used in calculations/assumptions.
    R5 does appear to add another 100lms or so.
    If the LEDs are running at less than the 85deg C, that would also increase the lumens by around 10% so maybe another 100 overall.
    So perhaps we are looking at around 1100lumen (or close to 1200 with 2s2p) from the 13-14w.
    The photos look impressive, regardless.
    Has anyone compared and photographed the beam from the 2 lenses in the full kit. I wondered how much difference the frosted lens would make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc71 View Post
    ...Has anyone compared and photographed the beam from the 2 lenses in the full kit. I wondered how much difference the frosted lens would make.
    I have no photo's of the beam pattern with frosted lens because when I tried it I saw how much it killed the throw. I can't see any real reason to use the frosted lens because ...well...how much flood do you need so close to the bike?...I mean really! Unless you're riding trails with a lot of slow tight turns I see no added advantage to the flood lens. Now if you do chose the flood lens you almost have to run a helmet lamp full time to help fill in the missing throw. You can do that but that means having to run the helmet lamp when otherwise ( with standard optic ) you might not have to.

    I think the beam pattern from the standard lens provides a nice mix of flood and throw. I see things very well up close to the bike with the standard optic, even on the lower modes. I WOULD like a little more throw but with quad optics you can't really get everything you want.

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    Cat, try to dedome one or two leds and you'll get little more throw.

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    Note to self: I need to do a beam test with distance markers to demonstrate throw. If I can ride tomorrow I'll try to do that. I just hope it doesn't rain again.

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    I actually got out for a quick spin last night. About an hour in the rain started to come down. Of course that always happens when you are at the furthest point from the trailhead. Anyway the BT40 held up well in the rain for me. About 60 mins of moderate rain and none seemed to get in. Also, it's crazy how little airflow this thing needs to stay cool. It'll warm up a little when still but as soon as you start to move, even a slow climb, it'll cool off fast

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc71 View Post
    Hi, my initial xpg2 datasheet did only go to R3 and this was what I'd used in calculations/assumptions.

    R5 does appear to add another 100lms or so.

    If the LEDs are running at less than the 85deg C, that would also increase the lumens by around 10% so maybe another 100 overall.

    So perhaps we are looking at around 1100lumen (or close to 1200 with 2s2p) from the 13-14w.

    The photos look impressive, regardless.

    Has anyone compared and photographed the beam from the 2 lenses in the full kit. I wondered how much difference the frosted lens would make.

    I dont go of cree data sheets. Especially when their ratings are "minimum luminous flux". I found independent sphere test results. Also r3-r5 based on cree data puts around 200 more lumens out the head based on cree data (which is low and assuming 85C). That's why I use independent test results, they are more what all of us will actually see in use.

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    Ok now I can get current readings more accurate than my dmm set up was doing. Tested against my high end charger readings for the pack and my calculations for driver current. Charger is 1% error and so is meter, calibrated exactly perfect. Then tested against my black yinding which is one I ran tests extensively on. Perfection! Well for me anywa





    Heres BT40 Test: This is mine on turbo though, "high" is same reading as stock. 1.9A. You know me and boosting everything lol.



    And video is unedited but here you go: Bt40 on "high" (so turbo for you stock ppl) with yinding on lid starts the ride:



    PS: Towards the end of the video you can hear a dog barck and me all the sudden stand and mash briefly, clearing the hole cassette in a hurry. Someones German Shepard got out and dogs in that little neighborhood arent friendly, he was about 50 yrds to my right and as soon as a car passed he darted across the road after me.
    Last edited by tigris99; 05-17-2015 at 10:33 PM.

  126. #126
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    I decided to bail out of my planned MTB night ride today. Most of the places around me had a good amount of rain the previous day so I figured best to take the road touring bike out for a spin. The road/paved trail ride went good today. Down side was I was really getting bombarded by gnats for half the ride. It seemed like I was spitting gnats out of my mouth all night.

    I could have done another MTB ride at the place I rode last Sunday ( as it was one of a few areas that didn't get much rain ) but I hate to keep riding the same trails over and over ( too soon ). Add to that, last Sunday I got questioned by a local policeman as I was loading my bike onto my car when I got back. I don't know why but I just hate stuff like that. It bothers me when I get noticed by police even if they don't give me a hard time. I just like to get my ride in, pack my things in the wagon and take off for home. I could understand it if I was parked in a really dark area near some private homes but generally I park ( out in the open ) in the well lit parking lot of a local school, if one happens to be near the trail head. For me this works. I just hate having to explain to anyone ( but particularly Police ) what I'm doing and why I'm there so late. I figure if you see a guy in bike clothing with a bike close by it should all be self explanatory.

    Anyways, the officer last Sunday was really nice and since I always try to be cordial, most times these encounters usually go without incident....but still, I hate being bothered and having to explain things. ( like it's really anyone's business ). Such is life when you routinely finish rides around 12:00 midnight.

    Now that I think about it I think I know now why I hate it so much... Usually when I'm finishing up a ride I'm all aglow with a, "I-just-had-a-great-ride!" buzz ( the natural kind ) and then along comes John Law and I have to mentally switch gears, so to speak. Total buzz kill.

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    Continued from last post:

    ...Oh, almost forgot to mention. When I did the road / paved trail ride tonight I was using my standard Gloworm X2 ( cool white ) with a XP-L torch ( cool white ) on the helmet. When it started getting dark enough I turned the GW on. At that time I was riding a stretch of gravel/dirt so with no one else around I turned up the light. It didn't take long before I noticed that I could really tell the difference with the cool white LED's. Not that I couldn't see but the added glare is so noticeable!

    Yep, I have a feeling I'm not going to be using any cool white lamps for quite a while. That said I need to get the Gloworms switched over to neutral LED's ASAP.

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    Well I guess I have that to look forward to lol. Thankfully the one trail set close by and the bike path, I know the officers in the area, they know my car (cant miss the thing,lol) so no worries there unless a county comes to ask questions since my car will be parked on the shoulder (though oddly its made insanely wide right near that trail head, I assume for horses and cars to park).

    Now heading down to all the other trails, I dont know how that will go. But I do get the buzz kill. My wife is great for that "When are you coming home?" "Have you left yet" "Youve been gone too long we need to do..." Thankfully night riding, shell know I leave and thats about it hehe.

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    OK so after a couple rides (still yet to get to dirt but things starting to open up again) I have 2 complaints:

    First off, really need optics options, this would make a redeculous helmet light if it had a good spot optic option.

    Other WHICH IS THE BIG ON, the stupid bright leds for the indicator... messes with night vision cause they are SO BRIGHT. I took rear cap off, cut a piece of electric tap and covered them up lol. Now they are only as bright as my Yinding and 880 clone. (SS X3 annoys me with this too but not near as bad as this thing). Putting it on the extension so its lower on the front vs bar mounted its not so bad, but up on the bars.....didnt notice it till I started having to look down more when I hit some "homemade singletrack" (kids going what me and my friends did back in the day when they first paved it and covered our "trails") that runs off to the side of the paved trail.

    NITEFIGHTER, dim down those indicator leds PLEASE!!!

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    Dimming can be made by changing apropriate resistors. Of course this is job only for very skilled people as the resistors are very tiny. Otherwise I agree, manufacturer should do it.
    Maybe it was aimed for urban usage so you can see the status regardles street lights. So, we purchased wrong light ;-) (joking)

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ...NITEFIGHTER, dim down those indicator leds PLEASE!!!
    First thing I did before riding with the lamp was cut out some electrical tape and cover up most of the back. Actually I'm rather annoyed with any lamp with led indicators as they do interfere with night vision ( especially true with the BT40S with it's very large rear button ) . I always cover the indicators. With mine only a little of the light escapes to the sides. This works well otherwise I might have a problem telling the top or bottom of the button which of course is important if you want to make the desired mode change with the two-way button.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    But I do get the buzz kill. My wife is great for that "When are you coming home?"
    This.

    I hate that question. I hate starting something planning when I'll be done, kills the freedom/enjoyment factor. I never know how long... Sometimes I'll want to do a few laps cause it's so nice out, sometimes I'll have a mechanical failure setting up and just head home and not ride. I spent the majority of 2010 in bum mode (single and not working) and rode every day and almost every night. I wish I had all these lights back then

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    Me, too dislike such a questions. But my family was gradually learned that it's pointless asking me about return time when I'm going out for the night ride, and stopped trying long ago...

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    Hopefully that will be the case for me one day. For now, with a child on the way, all i can do is seize any time I get clearance to go. Unfortunately for me, most of the times where she actually suggests I go I am either beat down from work or we are about to get a storm or something. Luck just always works against me like that

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    Hopefully that will be the case for me one day. For now, with a child on the way, all i can do is seize any time I get clearance to go. Unfortunately for me, most of the times where she actually suggests I go I am either beat down from work or we are about to get a storm or something. Luck just always works against me like that
    HA! Sounds like me. I did pickup a kiddie trailer so I could take my little one along (she's 2 now) but I don't think it will work well on mountain bike trails!

    Couple pics:
    July 2013 @ 7 months old:


    April 2014 @ 16months old:


    I have a 10yr old too and the problem with bringing her riding is that if it's uphill I need to push her! It's rough pulling the trailer and reaching over and pushing my other daughter, all without running into each other. A guy has to get his rides in somehow though!

    Sorry for the off-topic discussion.

    -Garry

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    That's awesome! I have a lot of decent, safe roads a short drive from home so looks like a trailer is on my shopping list for next season! They look like they're having a blast in that last pic!

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    Oh well, the trailers available in my country, too - but quite rarely used, despite well developed bike paths. I never wanted one, and used child seat instead: it allowed my (then 3-year) boy to participate even in outdoor family rides:




    P.S. Cat-man-do, sorry for spoiling your tread!

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    Another ride in with the Nitefighter BT40S

    Last nights ride was a local one. No problems with the BT40S. The trails were moist but not muddy. Most of the problems I had came from my helmet lamps. I started out using just a standard XM-L2 T-6 torch but had some problems with it because it wouldn't change modes. Luckily I brought along my neutral SSX3 as well.

    Toward the end of the ride I stopped on a particular straight section of the trail to switch to the Gloworm X2 (v3) I have. I wanted to see how each lamp handled the wet-moist trail surface. When I turned the GWX2 to high it was quite clear to me that the GW has the better throw and better over-all beam pattern ( IMO ) ...BUT....I was amazed at how "stark" the GW cool white LED's are. When I switched back to the 40S it was like going from a bright B/W T.V. to a Color T.V. That said, I much prefer the warm natural colors of the trail surface ( brought out by the BT40S ) even if it means sacrificing some throw.

    Can't wait to see what the Nitefighter BT21 is going to bring. Hopefully it will show up in a couple weeks. I also need to ship out the Gloworm for neutral LED retro fit. I'll be doing that next week if everything goes as planned. My bet is that the neutral Gloworm will be awesome.

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    Another ride; Continued

    Last nights ride with the BT40S went as usual, no problems. At the half-way point of the ride I decided to switch out the BT40S with my K/D-2 neutral Duo clone. Since I've not done many rides with the KD2 I thought I should give it a fair test.

    First thing I noticed about the KD2 is that it does offer superior throw compared to the BT40S. Actually I was quite surprised at how well it worked. Since the KD2 is programmable all three modes were quite useful. Towards the end of the ride I reprogrammed the low to a little lower since I felt I had it set a little too high. Otherwise it worked very well and I saw no signs of overheating.

    The biggest difference between the two lamps I feel was the color rendition of the beam patterns. While the KD2 worked fine I felt as though I got better color rendition ( on trails ) with the BT40S. Maybe the 40S is using LED's that are slightly warmer or perhaps it has to do with the optics being used. Food for thought as I prepare to pack-up my Gloworm X2 for neutral LED retro fit.

    Personally I can't wait to get back to using a remote switch again. Trying to fiddle with mode buttons on a lamp head going over bumpy terrain is a hassle. And speaking of such, it was easier changing modes with the BT40S than with the KD2 but that just might have been because I was used to the 40S or because I covered up too much of the indicator LED on the KD2. With the KD2 being so small it was harder to find the switch button so yes, next time I'll use less tape on it.

    Sooner of later I'll get to the distance throw test. Maybe tomorrow or maybe not as I was thinking of doing a road ride.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Personally I can't wait to get back to using a remote switch again. Trying to fiddle with mode buttons on a lamp head going over bumpy terrain is a hassle.
    Is it really necessary to actively change the modes on such terrains? I myself also use the remote, but exclusively to switch off the "high-beam" light on the road when oncoming car is approaching. On offroad trails, constant max is used - and till now I've never seen the needs to perform any intensity adjustments "on the fly"...

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    I like remote for helmet use but on bars I set and forget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Is it really necessary to actively change the modes on such terrains? I myself also use the remote, but exclusively to switch off the "high-beam" light on the road when oncoming car is approaching. On offroad trails, constant max is used - and till now I've never seen the needs to perform any intensity adjustments "on the fly"...
    ( *for Mountain biking ) I can't speak for others but when you have a remote on the bars it gives you ability to change modes very easily. While this isn't always necessary ( as you suggest ) it helps prolong the run time of the battery if you want to only use the output that you "Actually" need.

    When I use the Gloworm lamps I set the low to a level just bright enough for slow climbs or for when I have to walk. A lot of the trails I ride are in river valleys so at times I have some slow tedious climbs where I have to stop ( rest / walk ) for a bit. Some of those situations are more up/down ( rollercoaster ) fashion where you need to both shift gears and adjust lighting very quickly.

    When I ride I tend to be very frugal when it comes to output. If I wanted to I could probably ride with just single cell torches and have no real problem doing a typical 2 hr. night ride. Then again, like most people I enjoy having the freedom to use more light then needed and having extra battery power as a safety feature. On the plus side doing it this way prevents deep discharge of the battery pack which helps extend the useable life of the battery pack. Not to mention that moderating the output helps keep the lamp head from over-heating which almost all lamps will do when used on high full time. I set my bar lamp in the 400 lumen range for most riding and use the full power ONLY for fast / downhill sections. ( * For the BT40S I'm good usually in the 2nd or 3rd mode for all-around riding )

    I guess what this boils down too is that I don't mind pushing buttons as long as those buttons are right next to my hand. Nice to be able to both switch gears and switch outputs without having to take a hand off the bars. Now if I could only say that for my helmet light I would be dancing in the street. That's not going to happen though until someone makes a nice compact 1500 plus lumen lamp with great throw and wireless remote. While there are lamps with wireless remote most are quite big / heavy. Not the kind of thing I want mounted to my helmet. What I wouldn't give for a Gloworm XS or X2 "wireless" with neutral LED's.

  143. #143
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    except my helmet light, remote would be cool but no biggy. But I dont ride where you do lol. Midwest hilly singletrack, everywhere ive ridden so far longest loop is 1.5 hrs (but im stopping to take pictures a couple times etc,lol) So wont burn my packs into deep discharge. Each of the trails there are sections where more light will be good, but they are no more than a couple minutes long.

    In your case where your riding at the limits of the packs and serious terrain changes I see it making sense. But following Vancbikers helmet idea, quick slap to helmet to change a mode is nothing really for me having the button on the side. 2 remotes on the bars would just confuse the hell outta me lol. I just wish I could find a button like I use for my yinding that has 2 buttons instead of one so I could remote the bt40.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ( *for Mountain biking ) I can't speak for others but when you have a remote on the bars it gives you ability to change modes very easily. While this isn't always necessary ( as you suggest ) it helps prolong the run time of the battery if you want to only use the output that you "Actually" need.
    Ok, valid point if the battery is of limited capacity. As I prefer to have plenty of energy "onboard", I've overlooked that reason...

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ...In your case where your riding at the limits of the packs and serious terrain changes I see it making sense. But following Vancbikers helmet idea, quick slap to helmet to change a mode is nothing really for me having the button on the side. 2 remotes on the bars would just confuse the hell outta me lol. I just wish I could find a button like I use for my yinding that has 2 buttons instead of one so I could remote the bt40.
    Actually, rarely do I ride anything at night at the limit of the packs BUT when I do that is a very good reason not to use more light than I need.

    For me most of the issue for changing modes is very similar to changing gears. On some of the trails I ride I come down a very fast descent, hit a small flat area and then start to climb immediately. During the moments when I'm down shifting to start the next big climb, sometimes this can be difficult if the terrain is filled with the three "R's"....roots, ruts, rocks. I can usually time it right to take my hand off the bars once ( for helmet ) but I have to be quick so I don't lose momentum. Heck I don't know why I worry about it so much anymore because once I start climbing on a really steep hill I generally have to stop anyway within less than a minute. It does depend though on where I'm riding and how steep the hills are.

    BTW, if you do find a remote two-way switch that you can adapt the BT40S to let me know. I like the two-way switch on the 40S.

    On a side note; The ride I took last night had a really nice epic style downhill. I've ridden this trail only a couple times. The 40S and SSX3 on the lid were working really nice together. It was dark as hell last night. When I got down to the bottom of the hill I momentarily got confused on what trail to take to get back. This is typical of night riding and sometimes when you can't see all the landmarks ( that normally exist during the day ) you can easily get confused as to "What direction to take". Thankfully I have GPS on my phone for those times when I'm thinking..."WTF...where the hell am I"?.

    Not that I would of been in trouble for long since I knew the trail system I was on and knew it's limitations. However if riding a large unfamiliar area with tons of trail intersections getting lost at night could ( or can be ) a major ordeal ( and yes I've had that happen before...and using halogen lighting at the time )...thankfully, the compass I had then helped me out big time. Oh the stories I could tell about getting lost in the days of "halogen lighting" and either having no lamps with me or only one lamp with limited run time. A lot of the lessons on night riding ( or late day riding ) I've learned the hard way....School of Hard Knocks.

  146. #146
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    Luckily none of my local trails are like that. They are set up with a central loop and all expansions loop back to the center loop before the next expansion is available. But we don't have the land and terrain here to make trails that big and crazy.

  147. #147
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    Quick question on the BT40S. I just ordered the kit from GearBest (thanks for the group buy!) and was wondering if the battery is USB charged or standard 110v outlet charged?

    I haven't seen any pics of the batteries that come with the kit so I'm in the dark until it arrives (ha! pun intended).

  148. #148
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    Standard wall charger. Yet to see a USB charger with any of these decent lights especially when charge time would be alot longer (these prices they wouldn't give us 2Amp USB chargers )

    But its just like any other kit. Easy enough will work with other chargers for lights etc.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    Quick question on the BT40S. I just ordered the kit from GearBest (thanks for the group buy!) and was wondering if the battery is USB charged or standard 110v outlet charged?

    I haven't seen any pics of the batteries that come with the kit so I'm in the dark until it arrives (ha! pun intended).
    Yes, standard wall charger ( as per tigress99 ). The charger looks very much like the ones provided with the Magicshine lights. This doesn't surprise me as the BT40S looks very much like the MS 872.

    And speaking of USB charging; Just the other day I happened to notice that none of the USB ports on my computer were working. I only noticed this because when I tried to charge my rear lamp for my road set-up I couldn't get the plug into the port. Seems I manage to break both at about the same time. What a F. From what I'm reading the only way to replace the ports is to replace the mother board.....
    Sure, I can buy a plug-in USB charger with USB ports no problem with that but if I need to hook up anything to my computer to transfer data I'm ( now ) screwed.

    ...Going forward, anyone who is charging their small lamps off of their computer USB ports....You really don't want to use your computer ports. Go buy a plug in charger with USB ports. Wish I had known this before....Oh, almost forgot to mention. I found out how this happened. It seems I have at least one USB plug/cable that is not made to work with my computer ( It has no empty slot, completely solid. More than likely I tried to use it at some point and it broke both ports...Now if that ain't the screw you didn't see coming... )

    ( edit...read my next post to find out "why this ^ happened. )
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 05-31-2015 at 12:04 AM.

  150. #150
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    Doesn't everyone have a tablet or smart phone with USB charger???

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Doesn't everyone have a tablet or smart phone with USB charger???
    Yes, but most people likely charge their tablet or smart phone with a USB mini or micro wall charger. Of course the whole concept of USB charging was to use the USB ports on the typical computer to provide the charge voltage. This means you use a USB to USB mini or micro adapter to charge your device on the computer. Everytime I buy a device that uses either micro or mini USB I get another adapter. I must have about 10 of these cords floating around the home.

    I already have a mico USB wall charger ( and car charger ) for the phone. I don't have a mini-USB wall charger though, which is what my rear blinkies use. I need one of these now but in the mean time I am using the USB ports on my old computer for charging.

    Okay, I think I figured out what happened. One of the plastic pieces inside one of my ports broke off and lodged itself inside one of my USB plugs. Obviously I had no idea at the time that took place. Later I likely tried to use the same adapter in the other port and that port ended up breaking as well because I ( stupidly ) kept trying to jam it in. Anyway, moments ago I found the USB plug that was blocked up and with a small screw driver I removed the piece of plastic that was blocking the slot on the plug. The biggest screw in all this is that I had plans of buying a new digital camera. Hopefully the camera will allow direct download from the SD card. My computer has a couple card readers so hopefully I'll be good.

  152. #152
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    So not realizing that "breaking in" packs mattered so much, I broke in the bt21 pack (capacity test) and now broke in my 2 Panasonic 2 cell packs (in mj880 and mudder cases) and my bt40 pulls 3A now . So pushing about 1.3-1.4A per emitter on turbo. Its about on the ridiculous side of things now lol. Especially with s3 bin emitters in it as well. Does get pretty warm if left on high or turbo at low speed but other than that its pretty insane. Figured it beat out my modded mj880 clone....nope cause now it runs at true 3A per emitter on l2 u2 3c. But its pretty dang close.

    Ps: I thought of something. There's gotta be a simple way to make a charger unit run off a USB port. Gotta learn more about electronics cause I believe there's a way to regulate 12v in from a car to 8.4 out (and/or 8.7 for high voltage cells) and use a protection circuit for a cut off since that's all it is anyway. Protection on oack or in charger, same thing.

    Where's Archie, he should be able to help me.

  153. #153
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    But that won't provide a proper CC/CV charging algorithm. They do make some CC/CV charger boards and I think Mtn Elec sells them (otherwise all over Ebay). There is a thread over at BLF about using / tweaking them started by user ComfyChair. It was back when we had extremely few options for charging 4.35v cells.

    I have a project (3 years in the making now) where I am powering 2 XM-L2's from an Ebay adjustable voltage module board for headlights on my riding mower (there's a thread on BLF about it). I'm thinking now to just swap out my XM-L2's to XHP50'S (since the XHP50'S use XM-L optics) so I can get about 3,000 to 4,000 out the front of my mower!

    -Garry

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ps: I thought of something. There's gotta be a simple way to make a charger unit run off a USB port. Gotta learn more about electronics cause I believe there's a way to regulate 12v in from a car to 8.4 out (and/or 8.7 for high voltage cells) and use a protection circuit for a cut off since that's all it is anyway. Protection on oack or in charger, same thing.

    Where's Archie, he should be able to help me.
    I'm still here, at least partially.

    Using battery's protection PCB as an "end of charge switch" is bad idea: they're typically have higher triggering voltage, and in addition it's too early to disconnect the power at that stage: lithium needs second phase (constant voltage) to reach full capacity.

    For car charger, you may use DIY boards available on eBay - for example, my first 8.7V charger was made of this one:
    LM2596 DC DC Step Down Adjustable CC CV Power Supply Module Converter LED Driver | eBay
    Just find appropriate case, and add fused cigarette lighter plug.

    Of course, you'll need to tune-up the pots to the required values of voltage, current and indication.

  155. #155
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    I think that's the same board I referred to and ComfyChair posted nice diagrams and instructions on how to adjust it.

    Here's the link (but looks like his pic links are dead): eBay adjustable CC/CV module for 4.3v cell charging? | BudgetLightForum.com

    -Garry

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    Yes, the same thing: it just cheaper at my link. BTW, it requires good cooling, because of significant amount of heat produced even at 1A current...

  157. #157
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    I see that KD just added the NiteFighter BT40S. A few cents cheaper than GearBest.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

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    Wow, interesting, Garry! Saw a little while ago where GearBest is now offering free e-packet delivery, has anyone here tried that (as opposed th Netherlands Post or whatever)? Because I recently ordered some LEDs on eBay from a few sites in China, said e-packet, each got to me in a week of shipping (two were sent out same-day.) Wonder whether Kaidomain is going with e-packet yet.

  159. #159
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    I always try to go with "ePacket" delivery when I can, so this is good news with GearBest. Their shipping has always been their downside.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

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    Ya except kaidomain has the absolute slowest shipping ive ever seen. I actually haven't bought from them since the first attempt because of how badly they lied and how long it took for them to actually ship my order (versus when they told me it shipped)

  161. #161
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    I agree. Kaidomain isn't on my list of top sellers. They actually lost an order of mine (my "KD2"), acknowledged that, said they would ship it right out, but weeks later I had to threaten a PayPal dispute to get it moving. The next order came really really quick though (my KD Programmable drivers) and even included a free Christmas gift (keychain light).

    GearBest hasn't been great with shipping either, but that's been the trade off to get things at good deals. I still seem to have the best success with FastTech (US suppliers aside) even after all the grumbling by BLF Users. FastTech isn't what they used to be, but they have been decent for me.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  162. #162
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    See ive never had an issue on personal orders via gearbest. Except they have an apparent bug in checkout with shipping, I select express for DHL shipping, but last couple orders (price for DHL was lower than normal) went some screwy way that went through USPS, so took a week after it hit the states.

    Fasttech well find out I just placed my first order there for some Samsung protected cells that were on sale. See if 2 week time frame using USPS battery shipping is real or not.

    Not sure what's going on these companies are great for a while then go down hill. But except the mj880 clone I haven't a need for KD. And I paid for an mj880 clone via amazon instead just to save the headache.

  163. #163
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    Just got my BT40, seems great and all but I'm not 100% sure how to change the lens? Do I unscrew the silver ring with the notches in the front?

  164. #164
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    Ya unscrew the ring. I would ride with it first unless your experimenting cause the other lens is even more flood than the stock one iirc.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaseMe View Post
    Just got my BT40, seems great and all but I'm not 100% sure how to change the lens? Do I unscrew the silver ring with the notches in the front?
    Yes, I call that the retaining ring. You can wedge a small tipped screw driver in one of the notches and push counter-clockwise. Be careful. If the screw driver slips you don't want to scratch the lens.

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    Ok cool thanks, I am just curious to see what it's like. I was able to get it to unscrew using opened needle nose pliers turning from 2 notches.

  167. #167
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    Ya that's how I did mine, needle nose fit perfect. Just be careful to put the oring back underneath

  168. #168
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    First off, thanks to everyone for all the great reviews.

    I'm looking to get a light to mount on my bar for when my evening rides go a little long. I am not looking for nighttime riding light just yet (no head lamp).

    My friend lent me a SSX3 last time we rode and it was nice. Never used a light before. I was going to just go get one myself but I did the wrong thing and started researching. Oh god I spend too much time researching everything. That brought me to the lights section of MTBR.

    From my basic searching and reading I've come down to getting the BT40S on gearbest. (link| GearBest.com) or getting a SSX3 with XML here( link | Amazon.com)

    Is the XML SSX3 in the link above considered a neutral light? Does XM-L U2 = XML2 as you guys are posting?

    Is the BT40s kit worth the extra cost? I read somewhere of a guy comparing it to the BT40 and it BT40 seemed to throw a little better, but the SSX3 seemed to light in front the wheel better but I've read the SSX3's are spotty. I would prefer the light closer by more as I would just ride slow in the dark anyways.


    Thanks for any suggestions you guys might have.

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    @jjswee, no that lamp on Amazon is neither neutral white nor XM-L2, it is just the earlier generation of XM-L. The batteries it comes with will most likely be crap. The Nitefighter BT40S kit on GearBest will come with a high quality battery pack and charger which together would retail for the cost of the entire package $50 COUPON CODE: NBT40TG . And the Nitefighter has a really great interface, you can change modes in either direction and don't have to cycle through Off. Makes a great bar lamp with decent throw. Choose the free ePacket delivery at checkout for fastest shipping.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjswee View Post
    ...From my basic searching and reading I've come down to getting the BT40S on gearbest. (link| GearBest.com) or getting a SSX3 with XML here( link | Amazon.com)

    Is the XML SSX3 in the link above considered a neutral light? Does XM-L U2 = XML2 as you guys are posting?

    Is the BT40s kit worth the extra cost? I read somewhere of a guy comparing it to the BT40 and it BT40 seemed to throw a little better, but the SSX3 seemed to light in front the wheel better but I've read the SSX3's are spotty. I would prefer the light closer by more as I would just ride slow in the dark anyways.


    Thanks for any suggestions you guys might have.
    Adding to what AC said; Since you are looking for a lamp with neutral LED's and want a bar lamp I think it safe to say the BT40S is just what you are looking for. It comes with a good battery and very useable User Interface ( up/down switching ). If you're looking for light close to the front wheel, this lamp has it.

    The SSX3 is a decent lamp as well but can only be bought with neutral XM-L2 LED's from Gearbest. I use the SSX3 ( neutral ) as a helmet lamp since the X3 is using reflectors for more of a spot ( with added throw ). Combo'd with the BT40S they make a great neutral white two lamp system. If you want the BT40S you can also buy it on Amazon but right now it is listed at almost twice the cost of what you can get it on Gearbest. Amazon is almost sold out too although they are still selling only the lamp for about $30. If you want one Gearbest is your best choice at the moment. Takes about 18 days to reach east coast USA. ( On a side note I'm worried when I see Amazon run out of full sets of the BT40S's. That must mean there is some hold up on the availability of the batteries. )

  171. #171
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    Thanks guys! I'll go ahead and pick up the bt40.

  172. #172
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    Ull be really happy especially if u get the kit (check group buy thread for discount codes if you want) battery pack is awesome for the price.

    I love my bt40 good solid light.

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    I checked the group buy and clicked the link. The price is already 50 dollars. Do I not need the coupon code?

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    Guess you don't need the code right now, jjswee, looks like GearBest is running another promotion right now at the same discounted price.

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    I am thinking of getting the bt21. Might as well. The kit comes with the four cell battery. I would use it as a head lamp. In one of your reviews you guys had a two cell battery. Do I want to only purchase the lamp itself?

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    Might want to pickup that 2 cell Fenix case before they're all gone. Price marked down on that one too.

    -Garry

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjswee View Post
    I am thinking of getting the bt21. Might as well. The kit comes with the four cell battery. I would use it as a head lamp. In one of your reviews you guys had a two cell battery. Do I want to only purchase the lamp itself?
    My thoughts on the BT21 ; The bt21 is a bright lamp. When on high it is drawing some major amps. With a good two cell it should run maybe 1.5 to 1.3 hrs. on high. With mid-level mode perhaps longer. Personally I wouldn't recommend a two-cell set-up unless you are dead set on putting the whole set-up on the helmet. In my opinion it's still too much weight on the helmet but to each their own. Otherwise I would recommend getting the whole kit with 4-cell, unless you already have another 4-cell you can trust.

    ~ ~ Last night I took a quick spin with the BT21 again. This time I was using a freshly charged older 4-cell Bikeray battery. Once again ( used on the bars ) I noticed that as soon as I put the lamp into the higher modes the battery indicator changed color to blue. This doesn't necessarily mean anything other than the indicator is very sensitive to changes in power draw but it does highlight that the lamp is drawing some power. At some point the indicator will turn red and then blink red when it is about to turn off. Of course if it's on your head you can't see the color changes so if you use a two cell on the lid it would be smart to always carry a back-up.

    As for me, when I use lamps like these I always use a 4-cell ( at least 5200mAh battery pack ) with extension cord ( included in kit ) and set the battery in my hydration pack. When I want to go "wireless" on the helmet I will always go with just a torch/one cell set-up and carry back-up cells. The lighter the set-up on the helmet the better. The more weight you put on top of a helmet the more it changes the center of gravity of the helmet ( making it top-heavy ). This translates over to the helmet sliding around on your head more. Unless you have no problem tightening the straps on the helmet real tight I'd recommend keeping the battery off the helmet. Perhaps with a better helmet set-up it might work better but my helmet is old, the strap system is antiquated and the padding is old and worn. If I tighten the straps real tight it is very uncomfortable.

  178. #178
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    You bring up a good point about low voltage indication not being seen with the light on your helmet. Flashlights with Nanjg drivers will drop to low and flash at 3.0v so you'd definitely see that and have some light to get stopped and swap cells.

    Running a BT21 on a 2 cell pack you may want to consider running high drain cells (for less voltage sag to keep max output longer).

    -Garry

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    Interesting catmando. Im not a fan of cords going to my helmet. I have a inner helmet speaker system for paragliding and I have an extension cord connected to a radio on my harness. I hate that damn cord. I always forget about it then it pulls on my head as I drop the harness.

    Do head lamps really help? How much does the head-controllable light help when biking?

    What about two bt40s on the bar angled differently with one facing more downwards in front of the wheel?

    The single cell lightweight light sounds like a better idea than a cord.

  180. #180
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    I run 2 cell pack for bt21 on my lid no issues for me. Running Panasonic cells I get 2 hrs easily on high mode with bt21. Turbo (which you don't really need much) ya is down just above an hour.

    I dont see a point in the indicator as you'll notice the light dimming about the same time the indicator would go red anyway.

    Helmet light isn't a need depending on how and where you ride. Do I need one where I ride, no not 99% of the time. Is it nice to have something that lights up where im looking not just in front, oh ya.

    Problem here is both lights are great so depends on what your after. If you need a bit more range (throw) bt21 does that and puts out a bit more light. But bt40 has a much smoother and even light pattern in front of you. And no need to use 2 and point different directions., bt40 covers both put front and down near the tires pretty well.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjswee View Post
    ...Do head lamps really help? How much does the head-controllable light help when biking?

    What about two bt40s on the bar angled differently with one facing more downwards in front of the wheel?

    The single cell lightweight light sounds like a better idea than a cord.
    For typical off road single track I would consider it mandatory. On twisty tight single track there are moments when the bike is pointed one direction and you need to look in another. For those moments you WILL need a helmet light if you want to maintain momentum. This doesn't mean you will have to run the helmet lamp full time or on full power all the time. I let my bar lamp do most of the work. Then when I know I'll need to see more I'll turn the helmet lamp on. Of course if I'm running a dedicated bike lamp on the helmet ( with 4-cell battery ) I can run the lamp more if I want to without worry ). Keep in mind having a two lamp system has the added advantage of providing a safety net in case one lamp were to fail you will have a second on stand-by.

  182. #182
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    Hi all, hey cat I haven't been on here for a while but I'm interested in getting a neutral white bar light and this one looks like it fits the bill for me. I have two of the glowworm x2 lights and probably will send one in for the neutral white upgrade for my helmet needs. I'm not happy with the cool white lights after recently buying a couple neutral white flashlights and trying them out with some bar mounts I had I am totally sold on neutral white now. I have one in my cart at amazon with the light head only. Am I correct in thinking that the glowworm battery packs will work with this light head? I hope so. Thanks in advance.

  183. #183
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    Just noticed the BT40S lighthead only version on Amazon looks different in the pictures there from the the one they sell in the full package; rather than the fins being concentric, they are oriented horizontally like the MagicShine's. Also illustrations say BT40, not BT40S, though specs are of the S version. Solo BT40S offered on eBay and GB seem to be same as offered in full package. Wonder which version Amazon actually ships, maybe there was just a mix up in pics?

  184. #184
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    Question for you experts.

    I just got my BT40S kit and it came with a battery pack. I know there are some very specific charging steps you guys have learned to extend the battery life and ensure optimal performance. Can you share them?

    I don't know what batteries came with mine but could take the pack apart to find out if needed.

  185. #185
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    They all come with same batteries, at least for now. So no need there. Im working on researching the BAK cells now. Performance of pack is true to spec but long story short, I had to change connector in mine. So already opened it. Was MY fault not fault of pack.

    That said, pack is of no worries all good.

    For use

    Charge fully before first use

    Do not run down to protection circuit tripping if at all possible. Not easy to do as you get a ton of warning (including lights dimming down alot).

    Dont store more than a few days fully charged. Will cut functional life span of pack almost in half. Figure you want the cells stored between 50 and 75%. So from fully charged around 1.5hrs on medium setting for the light will bring pack down into storage range.

    Good idea to run first use after fully charged down close to where protection is going to kick in. So the warning of low voltage on the light. Breaks the pack in.

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Good idea to run first use after fully charged down close to where protection is going to kick in. So the warning of low voltage on the light. Breaks the pack in.
    I hate to contradict what you've said, but everything I've read about Lithium Ion cells says there is no need (or benefit from) performing the sort of break in you're describing... running the pack down low really does nothing other than shorten the life of the pack slightly. I believe many of these recommendations regarding breaking in battery packs are left over from the days of Nickelmetal hydride batteries that did require a few cycles of use to obtain full capacity.

    The only situation I know of where running the pack down to cut off can be of benefit is with devices with smart battery management circuits (laptop computers, smartphones, etc.) that keep track of the actual capacity and % used of the battery and need to be "re-calibrated" due to the cells losing some of their capacity with age.
    Last edited by kwarwick; 06-05-2015 at 02:25 PM.

  187. #187
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    Some very good information on best practices for charging lithium batteries:

    How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Hi all, hey cat I haven't been on here for a while but I'm interested in getting a neutral white bar light and this one looks like it fits the bill for me. I have two of the glowworm x2 lights and probably will send one in for the neutral white upgrade for my helmet needs. I'm not happy with the cool white lights after recently buying a couple neutral white flashlights and trying them out with some bar mounts I had I am totally sold on neutral white now. I have one in my cart at amazon with the light head only. Am I correct in thinking that the glowworm battery packs will work with this light head? I hope so. Thanks in advance.
    I can't think of any reason why not. Standard MS type connectors. If you think you might need another battery I really do recommend getting the full kit. The batteries included with these lamps have been very good 5200mAh BAK batteries. These are the same type batteries that were included with the very first Bikeray bike lights. I used those Bikeray batteries with my Gloworms for years and only now are they reaching the point where I am considering replacing them.

    I too am considering having my Gloworms upgraded to neutral white. I was holding off because the emitters they are using are of "3C" tint ( 4700-5000K ). I think the Nitefighter lamps are using 4C which is slightly warmer but I need confirmation on that. Then again, it might not make that much difference because like you my very first neutral lamp was a torch. Turns out that torch was using standard XM-L T6 with a 3C tint and with that said I was very impressed with it.

    Anyway, I was holding out for 4C but I might just go ahead and have one of my older Gloworms converted to the newer 3C XM-L2. The Gloworms lamps have such a good beam pattern that they are indeed really hard to live without, especially once you get used to having the remote. Go ahead and give the BT40S a try, I bet you'll like it. I like mine ( of course mine was free ) and because they are pretty cheap ( as in inexpensive ) I was thinking of buying another light head and running two on a Y-cable just for the heck of it. Then again I already have a BT21 so if I want to try two lamps on the bars I can do that. In the meantime I'm waiting for the BT70 to be released. Maybe I'll get one of those too but first I want to know a little more about it.

    The BT40S is a very nice useable bar lamp for the money. All the modes are quite useable and the two-way up/down mode switch I find to my liking ( for a lamp without a remote ). should hold up reasonably well in a rain for a Chinese made lamp. Good lamp, good battery, good price...win, win, WIN.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    I hate to contradict what you've said, but everything I've read about Lithium Ion cells says there is no need (or benefit from) performing the sort of break in you're describing... running the pack down low really does nothing other than shorten the life of the pack slightly. I believe many of these recommendations regarding breaking in battery packs are left over from the days of Nickelmetal hydride batteries that did require a few cycles of use to obtain full capacity.

    The only situation I know of where running the pack down to cut off can be of benefit is with devices with smart battery management circuits (laptop computers, smartphones, etc.) that keep track of the actual capacity and % used of the battery and need to be "re-calibrated" due to the cells losing some of their capacity with age.


    I just did it via 4 different packs from stock pack to Sanyo and Panasonic cells. Output increase was increased between .1 and .3 amps across all of them and running down close to but above 3v per cell (6v) doesn't hurt them at all.. Down below to 2.5v cut off is bs on many. Not sure if previous post had numbers in it. High end cells like Panasonic it doesn't matter my sanyos and stock pack for this both was noticable jump.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I just did it via 4 different packs from stock pack to Sanyo and Panasonic cells. Output increase was increased between .1 and .3 amps across all of them and running down close to but above 3v per cell (6v) doesn't hurt them at all.. Down below to 2.5v cut off is bs on many. Not sure if previous post had numbers in it. High end cells like Panasonic it doesn't matter my sanyos and stock pack for this both was noticable jump.
    I'm not sure its wise to make general statements like "doesn't hurt them at all" unless you've actually done long term tests with batteries that have been deep discharged like that. The "hurt" may not necessarily be apparent unless you are expecting to get the maximum life out of the cells. The difference could be getting 250 or 500 vs. 1000 discharge/charge cycles... does it matter for bike lights... maybe not for most of us. Regardless, telling people to perform a deep discharge to break in battery packs is not good advice.

    If you don't believe me, here's yet another link supporting what I'm saying: Debunking Battery Life Myths for Mobile Phones, Tablets, and Laptops

  191. #191
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    If you going to post links please do so for facts and test results not blogs. My information comes from countless hours researching and test results of my own on top of that.







    Like missing the fact that voltage under load vs actual discharge state of the battery are completely different but protection circuits dont know that. So protection trips just inside safe range for cells. So running them down till the light turns red with the light on means little, cause when you turn the light off what happens, it goes green or blue or whatever is mid range again. So cells are un damaged.





    Cells "at rest" cannot go below 3-3.5 per cell mostly (except a few) but under load dropping to 3v per cell hurts absolutely nothing.

    Not trying to be rude but im using facts ur using blogs.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    If you going to post links please do the math and the actual research. Secondly voltage under load and actual deep discharge ARE 2 DIFFERENT THINGS. 3V under load is still safe maximum discharge for most cells. Panasonic you can dip to 2.5.

    Everything the article you posted actually agrees with everything I said. But need to do the research on batteries beyond blogs to know that.
    I think you're missing the point I've been trying to make. There is no value at all in "breaking in" a lithium ion battery by draining it down as you originally advised and no cell manufacturers recommend doing so. Show me where the articles I've linked to suggest this is a good practice?

    In normal use, its up to you how much you want to discharge the battery before charging it back up again, but the point these articles make is the more deeply one discharges the battery the shorter the overall life of the battery will be (see Table 2 below).

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-screen-shot-2015-06-05-10.11.08-pm.png

  193. #193
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    Done with ^^^, just dumb. Give people the facts based on real world application and hands on testing and they still argue.



    Anyway, going to hit the trails again tomorrow night. Hopefully get a good video of using this for a bar light.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    I think you're missing the point I've been trying to make. There is no value at all in "breaking in" a lithium ion battery by draining it down as you originally advised and no cell manufacturers recommend doing so. Show me where the articles I've linked to suggest this is a good practice?

    In normal use, its up to you how much you want to discharge the battery before charging it back up again, but the point these articles make is the more deeply one discharges the battery the shorter the overall life of the battery will be (see Table 2 below).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hey guys, not to take anyone's side but I just wanted to point out some things as both are making some very good points. Like kwarwick said most experts agree that deep discharge of a Li-ion battery is not a good thing..however, the occasional deep discharge isn't going to hurt the battery significantly. That warning applies to people who are "routinely" giving their Li-ion batteries deep discharges.

    Personally I've never felt the need to cycle a Li-ion battery before use. Once again, depending on the quality of the battery and the charger being used I can see a place for charging a Li-ion battery from depletion if you have the right equipment.

    As I see it the best way to do this would be to completely discharge the ( new ) battery from it's initial storage charge ( which is usually somewhere around 40% charge ) and do this using a small load discharge, somewhere around 1A or less. Once at cutoff you give the battery time to rebound and then do it again. Don't over-discharge though. Go too far and the battery might lose polarity orientation. Anyway, once that is done you then initiate a very slow low amp charge. To do this properly you would likely need a hobby charger. With the appropriate slow charge settings the battery might take 10 or more hours to charge. This could possible give the cells in the battery more time to equalize. Not to mention more time to top off the charge at the end of the cycle...assuming you have the right kind of charger using the right charging pattern, etc.,etc.

    All the literature I've read has always indicated that slow charging is more beneficial than fast charging when it comes to Li-ion batteries. I figure there must be a reason for that. If the battery was previously in storage for some time prior to being sold this might indeed be beneficial particularly if the cells are not well matched or if the quality of the cells are lacking. Just how much this makes a difference like I said before depends on the cells being used and the charger used to charge them.

    Other than that I really doubt that using a standard bike charger to charge a new Li-ion battery from depletion would really add a significant amount of run time to a typical 4-cell battery unless the cells in that battery each had significantly different self-discharge characteristics. Whatever, it really isn't going to hurt though unless you are doing it every week. So hey, "If you think it helps, knock yourself out".

    BTW, there was some guy over on CPF that was a real absolute battery expert / engineer / wizard. That guy knew some major battery s***. He made his living working with batteries for the government I believe. Wish I had the link so you could pick his brain. The stuff I wrote is just stuff I've gleaned from Battery University over the years and some of my own opinions.

  195. #195
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    ya those are the links im trying to find, so I can help that guy understand. Heck you discharge lower than I do, 3V per cell (unless using crappy cells for cut off tests on the head) UNDER LOAD, so 3.4-3.5 static (as I read from those guys) and thats playing it safe. Batteries like panasonics can handle deep discharge better, occasional 2.5v under load doesnt hurt them really.

    I only did it with stock pack to I do capacity test and found those cells liked the "break in". Next use from full charge I gained 300mA substained current. Panasonic pack I pulled down to about 3.1V per cell there wasnt much of a change (but they had been cycled a few times already).

    All i wanted to point out is on the STOCK PACK it helps to bring them down into the red (on the light head), you gain some output current thus lumens out the front. ANd doing it once wont hurt anything. Espeically when it goes up to optimal voltage range static (and thats how those guys explain how to check for true safe discharge, not under load, but static no load).

    Anyway, back on topic

  196. #196
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    So I took my light out into the backyard last night just to see how it looked. Here are my thoughts/observations/questions.

    - Packaging was very good. For $50, I expected a plastic bag and some tape. It's definitely a well-thought out kit.
    - Came were more accessories than I expected. Helmet mount? Nice. Three rubber rings for bar mounts. Extension cable. Velcro tape. Nice.
    - Battery bag is very thick and solid. Again, more than I expected.
    - Also came with what looks like a spare/alternate lens. It looks like more of a diffusing type. Not sure of the difference.
    - Light head is tiny! And also very "solid" feeling? My 1990s vintage Nightsun felt very fragile compared to this light.
    - The back LED is very bright. Wondering if I may need to mask it so it's not affecting my vision.
    - Without charging the pack, I connected the light and the back LED went to green...then quickly to blue. Normal? I expected it to be blue (50% - 75% charge).
    - The two button design was a bit unexpected. The top button lowers the setting and does nothing when you are at the lowest. The bottom button raises the setting and does nothing when it's at the highest. I thought these lights normally cycled through modes.
    - There was less of a difference between modes than I expected. It's bright...don't get me wrong, but the incremental change from one mode to the next was smaller than I thought it would be.

    Basically, the entire kit and system is far better than I expected at this price. Can't wait to try it in combat conditions! Thanks for the group buy!

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    - The two button design was a bit unexpected. The top button lowers the setting and does nothing when you are at the lowest. The bottom button raises the setting and does nothing when it's at the highest. I thought these lights normally cycled through modes.
    - There was less of a difference between modes than I expected. It's bright...don't get me wrong, but the incremental change from one mode to the next was smaller than I thought it would be.
    Well that would explain why they're being sold so cheap, sounds like they've all been assembled wrong! Kevin, by unscrewing the back you can rotate the PCB 180 so that + and - Brightness will make a lot more sense. Just make sure to tamp down the white retainer securely so that it stays firmly in place when you screw it back together.

    User Review:  Nitefighter BT40S ( CAt Review )-image.jpg

    Yeah the increments do seem close but that's partly due to the fade between modes which disguises the differences.

    Anyway, glad the BT40S exceeded your expectations.

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    I want to thank Cat-man-do for chiming in and offering a middle ground perspective.

    Tigris, just to give you some perspective I've been tinkering in electronics for 40+ years and have built quite a few of my own lights and battery packs so I also have a bit real world hands on experience.

    My comments are not just from blogs, but from many years of experience with batteries and reading a variety of industry tech documentation. I was simply providing some quickly available links to illustrate what is generally considered to be facts about Lithium Ion battery technology. By the way I believe Battery University is considered to be an authoritative source of information, not just some random blog...

  199. #199
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    Well I was on my phone taking brief looks didn't realize battery university was in there. But the stuff you were posting (especially the second one) was arguing against yourself. There is alot more science behind using these and imho putting a "scare"into people saying that if they use their packs for more than a few minutes or use them at all if its hot or cold out IS NOT constructive or useful. It turns people away.

    My information was reality. Ive dealt with lithium tech batteries for about 10yrs I know the ins an outs and how to kill a battery vs keep one going for years (lithium poly batteries are far more sensitive than these as ive learned)

    Yes your info is correct basic info, but just drives people away from night riding by scaring them away from being able to use rechargeable batteries because they take too much to make last. Which they don't.

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    I just get em and use em. Until this year I abused the shit out of my batteries. I'm talking storing near empty or full sometimes for 6 months at a time. Storing in freezing car for months etc. I've had few issues...after 3 to 5 years my original MS packs all died due to the sprotection circuits failing and corrosion/rust eating away the wires. My Gemini packs are now about 4 years old and the 4 cells still hold 95% rated capacity but the 6 cells don't. The 6 cells seem to be more related to a balance issue so this is worthy of consideration. Since I have gotten more into this stuff over the winter and gotten a ton more equipment this is my observation- some packs seem to gain a bit more capacity after a few discharge cycles while some do not. I don't know why it is but I've seen it go either way. No matter what your philosophy, batteries will last a while and have been getting cheaper. Even if you only get 150 charge cycles out of them, it's still several years of riding for the average Joe, for what? 30 or 40 bucks? In my case, and I think most others, we have so many batteries that they will die from old age before anything related to charges or discharges. So everyone just needs to ride and whatever works for you is fine imo

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