Upgrade my lights - Which Lupine?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. Upgrade my lights - Which Lupine?

    First Post, long time lurker.

    Intersted upgrading my light set for bars and helmet.
    Currently I’m running Exposure Diablo (900L) helmet and Toro (900L) on bars.
    After many hours of reading I’ve settled on Lupine lights, which I never owned so I’m not familiar of the light flood besides pics online.

    I’m thinking of these options:

    1.Betty on bars and Wilma for helmet - both new version with bt remote so I can control both from one switch
    2.Two Betty’s?
    3.Two Wilma’s?
    4.Some other combo from Lupine?

    I’m not sure if the better light should be on the helmet or bars since my current two lights are the same output.
    Any help will be much appreciated.

    I mostly XC (some DH) with occasional rain.

    Benny

  2. #2
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    I'm running two Betty-R's, but would have gone with the Wilma at least on the lid if it had the wireless option, (which It did not at the time) as I think it is Lupine's best value vs performance. I haven't seen the new pricing with the Wilma/Piko now that they have been added to the wireless family,,,, but if price hasn't gone up to much I would almost go for two Wilma's as you would save yourself a small fortune. Otherwise Betty-R on the bars and Wilma on the lid despite both been 26degree's the Betty does seem to have a slight advantage in flood and IMO that should go on the bars. Piko on the helmet would be over powered for sure with the betty on the bars but may work well if you went with the Wilma on the bars.

    If you have good night vision (I don't), The Wilma/Piko combo would still be a killer set up, Wilma on the bars Piko on lid. If you want to burn your way through the forest LOL, the Betty/Wilma combo will do just that,,, so will two Wilma's.

  3. #3
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    The Wilma is sort of the workhorse of the Lupine line. I use a Wilma on the bars and a Piko on the helmet. That gives me something like 3500 lumen which is more than enough for pretty much anything.

    Even when riding on the road with this setup, I wind up with the Wilma turned down a bit. At 3500 lumens, I've got about as much light as a car with it's brights on.

    J.

  4. #4
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    Don't forget to factor in the battery weight of any setup also remember that the Betty may quote 4500L but that is its peak output, if try running that full time, the unit just throttles back to stay within a safe thermal margin.

    If I had to make a decision now, as I got rid of all my Lupine stuff bar the rear light, then I would go with a Wilma on the bar and Piko on the lid as I actually feel you can drive the Wilma almost as hard as the Betty given their respective thermal limits.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    Don't forget to factor in the battery weight of any setup also remember that the Betty may quote 4500L but that is its peak output, if try running that full time, the unit just throttles back to stay within a safe thermal margin.
    This is why I really like the Piko on the helmet. Having extra weight on the helmet bothers me so I even take and mount the Piko and then run the extra length cord to the battery in my jersey pocket. This, I really like because it's a lot of light and seemingly no weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    If I had to make a decision now, as I got rid of all my Lupine stuff bar the rear light, then I would go with a Wilma on the bar and Piko on the lid as I actually feel you can drive the Wilma almost as hard as the Betty given their respective thermal limits.
    The only time the Lupine lights throttle back is if there is insufficient airflow to cool them. There is a temp sensor in the light that backs down the power consumed if the unit starts to get hot. Just a little air moving over the light is all it needs. I believe you're right in that the Betty throttles back sooner than the Wilma just because there's more power being dissipated in about the same volume as the Wilma.

    I agree, the Wilma/Piko set up is pretty great.

    J.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    Don't forget to factor in the battery weight of any setup also remember that the Betty may quote 4500L but that is its peak output, if try running that full time, the unit just throttles back to stay within a safe thermal margin.

    If I had to make a decision now, as I got rid of all my Lupine stuff bar the rear light, then I would go with a Wilma on the bar and Piko on the lid as I actually feel you can drive the Wilma almost as hard as the Betty given their respective thermal limits.
    Demographic will play a role in how the betty behaves with it's thermal. It's pretty mild where I live in the winter for Canada and my average riding temperatures range between 25/40F. I can have my betty's at full power with no step down riding anything above 7/8MPH. However I have the first Gen Betty-R's (3600)lumens so the 4500lumen and now the new 5000lumen versions will require a little more air flow unless there have been improvements to heat dissipation.

    The new 2016 Wilma/Piko really is just an amazing combo the more I think about it. I've said for years that I'd like to see the Piko housing made a little larger to accommodate the heat and this year Lupine have done just that as well as with the Wilma. I think their 1500 lumen claim should be pretty honest as with the Wilma. This is a 4700 lumen combo that is enough for anyone who doesn't have poor night vision and top of the line everything for reliability. And can be controlled by one or two separate wireless remotes. Just awesome!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Demographic will play a role in how the betty behaves with it's thermal. It's pretty mild where I live in the winter for Canada and my average riding temperatures range between 25/40F. I can have my betty's at full power with no step down riding anything above 7/8MPH. However I have the first Gen Betty-R's (3600)lumens so the 4500lumen and now the new 5000lumen versions will require a little more air flow unless there have been improvements to heat dissipation.

    The new 2016 Wilma/Piko really is just an amazing combo the more I think about it. I've said for years that I'd like to see the Piko housing made a little larger to accommodate the heat and this year Lupine have done just that as well as with the Wilma. I think their 1500 lumen claim should be pretty honest as with the Wilma. This is a 4700 lumen combo that is enough for anyone who doesn't have poor night vision and top of the line everything for reliability. And can be controlled by one or two separate wireless remotes. Just awesome!!
    indebt, JohnJ80 and EFMax,

    Thank you for all the useful information. I’ve settled for Wilma and Piko.

    New Wilma will be available in the next month so I’ve ordered Piko 4 along with some batteries just in case (two 3.3 and two 13.2).
    Wilma will be ordered when available.
    Also got the rush for the new Betty TL2 so pulled the trigger on that too with charger one bundle….

    Benny

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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.dahan View Post
    indebt, JohnJ80 and EFMax,

    Thank you for all the useful information. I’ve settled for Wilma and Piko.

    New Wilma will be available in the next month so I’ve ordered Piko 4 along with some batteries just in case (two 3.3 and two 13.2).
    Wilma will be ordered when available.
    Also got the rush for the new Betty TL2 so pulled the trigger on that too with charger one bundle….

    Benny
    Also two Piko's make an awesome set up as well. You can mount a Piko with the GoPro mount on your computer mount (I favors the K-Edge) and then one on the helmet. The Piko underneath is so tiny, you hardly know it's there. The two Pikos will give you about 3000 lumens total on max - that's more than two car headlights.

    That said, the Wilma is awesome. I have the 2400 lumen variant and usually never run it wide open unless descending at high speed on my road bike and just because I can.

    J.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.dahan View Post
    indebt, JohnJ80 and EFMax,

    Thank you for all the useful information. I’ve settled for Wilma and Piko.

    New Wilma will be available in the next month so I’ve ordered Piko 4 along with some batteries just in case (two 3.3 and two 13.2).
    Wilma will be ordered when available.
    Also got the rush for the new Betty TL2 so pulled the trigger on that too with charger one bundle….

    Benny
    Great choice Benny!! That Wilma will give you the output and punch you need going down the trail when your doing your DH, and if your not mounting your Piko battery on the lid you wont even know you have anything up there it is so light. Even with the two cell battery it will still be fairly light. Let us know your thoughts once they arrive and especially after your first night ride.

    On a side note I'm jealous about the Betty TL2 lol,,,,,,,, I have the Wilma TL and it is the most used flashlight in my small collection. Was going to get the Betty TL2 but knew I wouldn't use my Wilma TL once that was added. Cheers!!

  10. #10
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    Do the TL versions have the same beam width as the bike light versions?

    J.

  11. #11
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    I just checked Gretnabike's and couldn't find specs but I pretty sure I read somewhere the beam was 26degrees on the Betty TL2, so same as the bike light. Doesn't look like they are selling the Wilma TL any more as I didn't see it on their website. There was never an upgrade to the leds on the Wilma TL that im aware of,,,,, I'm guessing Lupine wanted to keep the flashlights as small as possible and have good range so they stayed with the XP-G R-5 leds the whole time with a 16degree optic. Also a guess here but maybe the Betty TL2 took away to many of the Wilma TL sales to keep it in their line up, not to forget the Piko TL is now putting out the same output as my Wilma TL. I think I've answered my own question as to why there is no Wilma TL anymore.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for that. Appreciate it.

    I need a high lumen light but I need a more concentrated beam for use on the boat at night. With the large spill from the Wilma, too much hits the boat and bounces back and blinds the driver/helmsman.

    J.

  13. #13
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    If you want a compact flashlight (uses 1 18650 cell) that has a really concentrated beam,,, check out Olights M2X-UT Javelot!! It uses a de-domed XM-L2 and has a Turbo head on it with a smooth polished reflector. I have one and it is just stupid,,,, the range on this thing. It will shoot a laser beam out and light up trees several football fields away,,,, it has a CD of 164,000. And it will fit in your back pocket.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I need a high lumen light but I need a more concentrated beam for use on the boat at night. With the large spill from the Wilma, too much hits the boat and bounces back and blinds the driver/helmsman.
    If you already have the Wilma and excessive spill is the only problem - what's about using it in conjunction with hood? There's cheap Chinese snap-on models (including rubber ones), and I think it won't be too hard to find the diameter that fits the light's bezel... Something shaped like this one:

    Upgrade my lights - Which Lupine?-hood.jpg

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Thanks for that. Appreciate it.

    I need a high lumen light but I need a more concentrated beam for use on the boat at night. With the large spill from the Wilma, too much hits the boat and bounces back and blinds the driver/helmsman.

    J.
    Hey JohnJ80, although it doesn't seem like you have much interest in the Olight I mentioned, I just did a side by side comparison with my Wilma TL. I found the Olight did have larger spill than the Wilma, however it was much dimmer as most of the output was concentrated into the hot spot. The color rendition was also much warmer than the Wilma. Way easier on the eyes.

    I wasn't on your boat so can only try to visualize the glare you were getting off the light and reflective fiberglass. The one thing I can say is the XPG-R5 emitters are a really more of a cold white and do have that effect on the eyes. Riding with my old Lupine set up (Betty 7),, (Wilma 5) that was a total of eleven R-5s and yes there were times a warmer color rendition would have been appreciated.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Hey JohnJ80, although it doesn't seem like you have much interest in the Olight I mentioned, I just did a side by side comparison with my Wilma TL. I found the Olight did have larger spill than the Wilma, however it was much dimmer as most of the output was concentrated into the hot spot. The color rendition was also much warmer than the Wilma. Way easier on the eyes.

    I wasn't on your boat so can only try to visualize the glare you were getting off the light and reflective fiberglass. The one thing I can say is the XPG-R5 emitters are a really more of a cold white and do have that effect on the eyes. Riding with my old Lupine set up (Betty 7),, (Wilma 5) that was a total of eleven R-5s and yes there were times a warmer color rendition would have been appreciated.
    Sure, looks like a nice light just won't work in my particular application.

    Any spill is a problem - picture a white Boston Whaler and trying to shine a light from the helm station out into the night looking for a navigation mark or unlit object on the water. It's typically a very low contrast view but the spill lights up the front of the boat bright white and essentially blinds the driver and overwhelms the low contrast object I'm looking for. What's needed is a pencil like spot beam. I have a light that does this at about 100 lumens but it would be way better to do it at higher intensities.

    J.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Sure, looks like a nice light just won't work in my particular application.

    Any spill is a problem - picture a white Boston Whaler and trying to shine a light from the helm station out into the night looking for a navigation mark or unlit object on the water. It's typically a very low contrast view but the spill lights up the front of the boat bright white and essentially blinds the driver and overwhelms the low contrast object I'm looking for. What's needed is a pencil like spot beam. I have a light that does this at about 100 lumens but it would be way better to do it at higher intensities.

    J.
    Totally get it now!!! Then you should be looking at something like the Deft-X flashlight, at OMG Lumens website. It has 1,000,000 cd and no spill. Not cheep though.



    SORRY,, don't know why the photo didn't show up with the cut n past?




    omglumens.com




    .

    Now upgraded to 1 million cd typical!!! That makes the DEFT-X the industry's first production LED light to meet this amazing milestone.

    The new DEFT-X is performing at an astonishing 1,000Kcd!!! This represents a new world record for LED based flashlights.

    The DEFT-X has a whopping 300% more intense beam than the closest competitor*(O-lightSR95SUT). That means you would have to buy four of the best the rest of the world has to offer just to equal one DEFT-X. And the DEFT-X does this while weighing a fraction as much as that light and is also much smaller in every dimension. We could continue to talk about “competitors” but truth be told the DEFT-X has no competitors.

    To put it mildly the DEFT-X is a technological tour de force. Careful selection and matching of key components such as the driver, LED, optics, and thermal materials allow us to have searing performance while still retaining practicality and reliability.

    The DEFT-X uses the latest Cree XPG2 LEDs. These are bonded direct to copper for industry leading heat extraction. This was absolutely key to achieving the thermal performance necessary to make this product a reality.

    Those who know us know we look for improvements anywhere they can be found. Whatever it takes to push the state of the art forward. At great cost we have undertaken to license technology from a company called Wavien. This technology is called RLT™. RLT™ is Wavien's Recycling Light Technology. It allows for the use of light that would otherwise be wasted in an optical system such as the DEFT-X's. The light that would hit the sidewalls of the flashlight and die is instead reflected back at the LED until it exits the aperture and passes through the lens where it is then collimated into the beam. The net effect is a more intense beam than would otherwise be possible.

    Having this technology is not enough as we have come to find out by examining another product that has this technology in it. In this particular example the RLT was so poorly implemented that performance was actually better with it removed. So it is our proper implementation of the technology that has also been a key factor in this remarkable achievement.

    Practical Uses for a Light of this Power and Beam Type
    The DEFT-X features a spot only type beam. The lack of spill light has benefits and shortcomings. The highly confined beam of the DEFT-X is not the type you would use to light the path in front of you with. Any old flashlight can handle the low level flood light needed for a pathway. But not just any flashlight can do what the DEFT-X can. It can tell you not simply what is at your feet but where to go and what's coming.

    - Many customers of these type lights use them to give advanced warning of predatory animals. The more advanced warning you can get the better. In some cases it has been found to act as a deterrent to aggressive animals.

    - The DEFT has also been used in law enforcement activities. Border control agents use them to be able to have a highly portable spotlight that allows them to scan large areas of desert landscape that would otherwise require an extremely large and unwieldy light.

    - Police have used the DEFT for discrete searching around buildings or near busy roads. The highly confined beam allows one to put the light exactly where it is needed avoiding unnecessary disturbance of the surroundings such as people sleeping in their homes or blinding oncoming traffic which can result in a dangerous situation unfolding.

    - For law enforcement officers this light also represents a potential life saver as the extremely intense beam has a “shock and awe” effect on people that could buy the officer valuable seconds as the person tries to regain composure. If they even can. The light is so blinding that the user cannot even be seen by the individual being targeted. The strobe option which is neatly tucked to the side is both non-obtrusive to normal operation but also easily accessible whenever needed and provides a further method to disorient individuals where such effect may be necessary.

    - Those who are into boating will also find a light of this type and power to be an immensely powerful tool. When out on the water two elements come into play quite often. The need to retain night vision and also needing to identify markers which can be at great distances. A normal light that uses a reflector cannot control the light as well and is less intense but also has spill light that falls in the near field and can ruin night adapted vision.

    - For hunters as well this characteristic of preserving night adapted vision due to the lack of spill light is essential. The tremendous throw of the DEFT-X beam also allows the hunter to be far more certain that the area behind the intended target is clear. There is no such thing as too much light down shot when it comes to this vital safety aspect of hunting.

    The DEFT-X is in production now. Shipment estimated at 8 weeks. See the OMG online store for details on pricing and availability.

    *excluding OMG Lumens own subsidiary company OneStopThrowShop's product the TN31mb which now ranks as second place in throw behind the DEFT-X



    Specifications
    -1,000,000cd typical
    -Direct to copper bonded Cree XPG2 Neutral tint
    -Runs on 3 18650 Lithium-ion cells. Recommend Orbtronic"Protected 3400mAh NCR18650B" or similar "Protected" cell for maximum runtimes.
    -564 grams without batteries/aprx 695 grams with batteries
    -Length 205mm x 75mm(head diameter)
    -6 level light output plus strobe
    -Runtime aprx 2 1/2-3 hrs on high
    -Forward clicky rear switch allows for mode selection before light powered on.



































    .






    ..
    Last edited by indebt; 09-11-2015 at 02:33 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    If you already have the Wilma and excessive spill is the only problem - what's about using it in conjunction with hood? There's cheap Chinese snap-on models (including rubber ones), and I think it won't be too hard to find the diameter that fits the light's bezel... Something shaped like this one:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Needs to be more of a spot beam than the Wilma has. Now that I looked into it, there are a number of marine application based lights that are LED at about 550lumens to 1300 lumens that have spot lights. They seem to have come to market in the last two years (last time I looked).

    J.

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