Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review

    I purchased a Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 in June of 2018. I am not affiliated with the manufacturer. I had to purchase separately all mounting hardware and power plugs as it was sold to me as a light head only. The manufacturer supplied 1 meter long integrated light head power wire is a measly 22 gauge. I didn't want much voltage sag so I wire everything with 18-20 gauge wiring and try to keep it relatively short. I also upgraded the light head mount from the hollow bolt/screw assembly to a standard 7mm hex bolt and nut since I stripped it out after remounting the light several times on different bikes. I angled the light head so the top of the beam was 70mm down from the top of the light head on the bike at a distance of 2 meters as per manufacturer's recommendation. Care must be taken in mounting properly as this is one bright light with a German K-mark approved beam.

    I have ridden with it mounted on my 3 different road bikes for about 4000 miles so far.

    I made calibrated measurements with a Fluke model 8060A. This year I also purchased an Ikan CV600 calibrated spectral color meter specifically made for measuring led emissions.

    https://ikancorp.com/shop/lighting/i...a-film-uprtek/

    The current MiniPro-25 model specifications have changed from the version that I purchased over a year ago. The lux readings are lower on the new version so maybe they refined the beam profile for a more evenly distributed light carpet. The Supernova engineers could take some hints from [email protected] when it comes to an evenly distributed light carpet. Attached are the 2 different specifications.

    I have a spectrum comparison below to my Gloworm XS and Philips Saferide80.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-m99-minipro-25-specs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-new-m99-minipro-25-specs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-lh3.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-lh2.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-lh1.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-minipro25-spectrumgraph-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-spectrumcomparison-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-supernova-gopro.jpg  


  2. #2
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    MiniPro-25 Lux readings

    All lux readings taken were done at a distance of 2 meters so you will have to recalculate for 10 meters. Light intensity follows the inverse square law. So a 5000 lux reading at 2 meters would be 200 lux at 10 meters.
    Attached Images Attached Images       

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    MiniPro-25 Beam Photos

    I took beam photos with a Nikon D750 using manual settings that are the same as mtbr.com. So you can do a fairly direct comparison to that awesome database of lights. My settings were shutter speed of 1.6 sec, aperture of F4, and iso 200. But after I resized the photos for upload, I noticed my new camera had a (-0.7ev) adjustment being applied to the images(new camera, my mistake). So they are just a little bit brighter than what you see. Also because the dynamic range of the Nikon D750 is terrific, the 12 volt powered light head shows a purpleish background sky at 3:50 a.m. The 8.4 volt photos taken just a half an hour before at 3:20 a.m. show a black sky.

    I measured the road distances with a new Leupold laser range finder. The yellow painted road lines are 11 feet long and the open distance between them is 29 feet. So it is 40 feet for every line and open space pair. Since the camera's sensor exposes for the highlights of the image and the dynamic range is only so good the photos lack about 40 feet of what you actually see in the distance. The 8.4 volt low beam reach to my eyes is about 160 feet. I can never outrun this low beam on flat ground. The fastest I ride is 35 mph with a tail wind or small hill. I have only used the high beam on steep hills or when flashing those cagers who don't dip their high beams. Over the past year almost all cars that have seen me approaching them with this light on low beam have dipped their high beams.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-roadday-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v_lb1c-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v_lb1s-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v_hb1c-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_lb2c-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_lb1s-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_hb1c-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_hb2c-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_hb1s-rs.jpg  


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    MiniPro-25 Gloworm XS and Saferide80 beam profiles

    Here are some beam profiles on my garage door.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-saferide-wall-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-glowormxs-wall-rs.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-minipro25-wall-rs.jpg  


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    MiniPro-25 hand held photo

    I took this photo with a Nikon D7000 hand held. With a short telephoto lens you can view just how far the 12 volt high beam reaches.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-12v_hb-1-60_iso1600.jpg  


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    MiniPro-25 Efficiency at different input voltage

    I own several 2s4p water bottle battery packs equipped with 2500mah cells. The voltage drops 0.1 volt for an output of 8.3 volts with this light. When using the 8.4v to 12v boost converter the voltage drops 0.2 at the battery pack when operating the light.

    I purchased an 8.4v to 12v boost converter but The 12 volt low beam is too bright for my sub-35 mph riding so I never use the booster. Maybe a Lance Armstrong level bicycle rider would need a 12 volt power supply for this light. This is really an e-bike light that is great on a "pedal only" bike powered by a 2s4p battery pack.

    The efficiency of the led driver at 5 volts is not great but by 8 volts it is into it's excellent range.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-efficiency.jpg  


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    I seriously looked at the Lupine SLA before purchasing the MiniPro-25. I didn't like the lack of high beam and the sharp side beam cut-off of the SLA though.

    After over a year of riding with the MiniPro-25, I found that a bright, long reach, sharp cut-off bike light, doesn't even need a high beam when riding on any of my well known bike routes.

    Here is a photo of the aspheric lens Lupine SLA which shows the sharp beam edges that I don't prefer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-lupine-sla-.67ev.jpg  


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    Good job on the review! Very helpful!

    I'd like to add that Supernova is releasing the M99 Mini as a dedicated battery version. It comes with a 54 Wh battery, max lumens on high beam 1600lm (compared to 1100-1200 on the MiniPro25), runtime 2-50 hrs. Scheduled release Dec 2019, Price: 530 Euros (ridiculous...,albeit incl 19% VAT, not ncessarily appicable if shipped outside the EU)

    And for those looking into new lights: Lupine has released their high beam lamp SL-F in Dec 2018, however the low beam light is slightly less homogenous than that of the SL. Also Lupine announced for beginning of 2020 a new lamp, the SL-X, with max lumens 1800 (high beam) at 24 W. It comes with a reflector, so there is hope that the beam will be very homogeneous. Not announced yet wether that lamp comes as dedicated battery version or just as e-bike light.
    Last edited by biking_tg; 09-24-2019 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Links updated

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    Welcome back Gypsyman

    Looks like you put a lot of time and money into this research / review. Very well done. I agree with your assessment that the Mini-Pro 25 has the better beam pattern as it is much wider than the Lupine SLA. I like how you did your beam photos. Taking a photo off to the side ( slightly angled ) gives the viewer a very good indication of not only the width of the beam pattern but more perspective in regard to the throw.

    I also agree with you in as much as the MP25 actually provides more light on low than is actually needed. That said this lamp would be very good for the faster roadie or for someone that uses one of the faster e-bikes.

    The designers of the Mini pro 25 did forget something though when they designed the UI. They must of forgotten that some people ride not only road but MUP's. On an MUP the low beam of the MP25 would still be overwhelmingly blinding to any approaching pedestrian or bike traffic. They could have resolved this issue by simply adding a third ( eco-low ) mode, something in say the 100-150 lumen range....OR....just made the current UI modes, "user programmable".

    I really like the Mini-Pro 25 and would consider buying one if it were not for the fact that it is very, very expensive ( When I say, "Expensive", that's expensive to the power of 3 ) and that if I bought one I would still have to use one of my Raveman CR series lamps if I wanted to ride on an MUP since they offer some low modes more suitable for MUPs .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The designers of the Mini pro 25 did forget something though when they designed the UI. They must of forgotten that some people ride not only road but MUP's. On an MUP the low beam of the MP25 would still be overwhelmingly blinding to any approaching pedestrian or bike traffic. They could have resolved this issue by simply adding a third ( eco-low ) mode, something in say the 100-150 lumen range....OR....just made the current UI modes, "user programmable".
    Cat, i am sorry to say, but the low beam of the M99 series is a car type low beam, like the Outbound Focal Road beam pattern. Unless the pedestrian is smaller then the mounting height of the lamp, it won't blind him. And only recumbent bike riders will be blinded due to their lower seat position. The lamp is german StVZO approved, which is non-blinding (if the lamp is properly adjusted) in low beam mode. You can see the beam characteristics for low beam better on this supernova page, scroll down, there are two pictures with low/dipped and high beam which nicely show the cut-off and the effect of the high beam.( the link shows the battery version, but the reflector is the same). You can also see this in the wall shot in post #4.
    On their new battery powered version Supernova added an eco dipped mode (75 lm instead of 450 lm).

    Last edited by biking_tg; 09-24-2019 at 11:06 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Cat, i am sorry to say, but the low beam of the M99 series is a car type low beam, like the Outbound Focal Road beam pattern. Unless the pedestrian is smaller then the mounting height of the lamp, it won't blind him...
    Well...we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I've used lamps with cut-off type optics and if the lamp is set to the brighter settings it can still be too bright when viewed directed in front of the bike from just 10-15 ft. away. Of course not all cut-off type lamps are the same. The Raveman series have more of a tapered cut-off ( still a minute bit of upper light ) while perhaps the Germans brands might have a more defined cut-off. That said I'm still betting it would be too bright to view from directly in front of the bike from 15 ft. or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    ..And only recumbent bike riders will be blinded due to their lower seat position. The lamp is german StVZO approved, which is non-blinding (if the lamp is properly adjusted) in low beam mode. You can see the beam characteristics for low beam better on this supernova page, scroll down, there are two pictures with low/dipped and high beam which nicely show the cut-off and the effect of the high beam.(sorry for the german version, the english one is not yet published. It's a different lamp, but the reflector is the same). You can also see this in the wall shot in post #4.
    On their new battery powered version Supernova added an eco dipped mode (75 lm instead of 450 lm).

    Yes, I noticed the added lower mode on the newer version just after I posted. I'm sure they did this because they realized the same thing as me. Wish there was a way to get a free one to review....
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 09-17-2019 at 07:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Well...we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.....
    while perhaps the Germans brands might have a more defined cut-off....
    I think we can agree. I agree with your experience, but this is not valid for stvzo approved lamps. The allowed lux value ( at 10 m) above the brightest spot of the beam is 2.0 lux. To be exact: 3.4 degree (and higher) above the brightest spot, measured at 10m distance. (3.4 degree at 10 m are equivalent to 0.6m) This applies irrespective of the lamps light output!

    This makes it hard to comply with the stvzo rules with a high powered lamps unless you have good optics, reflectors or use a blind/glare slide to block unwanted light.

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    Non-Blinding real cut-off beam

    Cat
    Thanks for the welcome back. I haven't been reading the mtbr.com forums much over the last year. Once I started riding with the MinPro-25 I had finally found the light I have been waiting for all these years and stopped looking for upgrades.

    I did spend several thousand dollars on upgrading my measurement equipment and cameras over this last year. I spent years working in lab environments and know that measurement values are only as good as the equipment you use and the care taken when measuring something.

    While the beam pattern is no where near as smooth as the Outbound Road edition light, the darker area directly in front of the bike with the Supernova is what I prefer. Also I wanted a non-blinding street light with massive throw. The 150 lux @10 meters 8.4 volt low beam is a little too bright for me. I am used to riding with 80-130 lux so I can retain my night vision. The trade off with the brighter light is that I can never out run my light beam or be overpowered from passing vehicle headlights.

    You truly have to see an StVZO registered light in person to see how much better they are than non-approved lights for beam control. I have attached 3 photos of the 8.4 volt low beam at 15, 10, and 5 foot distances. The M99 MiniPro-25 that I tested will absolutely not blind any adults when riding on a MUP when properly adjusted. Small children will be into the bright part of the beam because they are below the top of the lamp mounted on the handlebars.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v-lb-5ft.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v-lb-10ft.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-8.4v-lb-15ft.jpg  


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    Manufacturers need better beam photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Looks like you put a lot of time and money into this research / review. Very well done. I agree with your assessment that the Mini-Pro 25 has the better beam pattern as it is much wider than the Lupine SLA. I like how you did your beam photos. Taking a photo off to the side ( slightly angled ) gives the viewer a very good indication of not only the width of the beam pattern but more perspective in regard to the throw.
    I don't know why light manufacturers don't have better beam photos. They seem to like to show blurry fast moving rider videos for marketing their products. I consider those videos pretty much useless. A series of good wide angle centered and side photos tell me a lot more of how their product performs than any fast rider in a blurry video.

    The CRI number is also relative because of the limited number of pastel colors used to make that measurement. Even though the CRI of the MiniPro-25 is only 66, it is fine for road use. I prefer cooler 5500K to 6000K road lights to warmer colors. The black to grey asphalt I ride on just seems brighter with a bit cooler light. For off-road I do prefer 4500-5000K light color. My neutral led equipped Gloworm XS has a 4683K temp which for me is ideal when off-roading.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-gloworm-xs-spectrumgraph.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    I think we can agree. I agree with your experience, but this is not valid for stvzo approved lamps. The allowed lux value ( at 10 m) above the brightest spot of the beam is 2.0 lux. To be exact: 3.4 degree (and higher) above the brightest spot, measured at 10m distance. (3.4 degree at 10 m are equivalent to 0.6m) This applies irrespective of the lamps light output!

    This makes it hard to comply with the stvzo rules with a high powered lamps unless you have good optics, reflectors or use a blind/glare slide to block unwanted light.
    I hadn't read the full StVZO requirements for bike lights. Two lux at 10 meters, .6 meters above the brightest spot is extremely low. My 5, 10, 15 foot photos illustrate this lack of glare quite well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    I spent years working in lab environments and know that measurement values are only as good as the equipment you use and the care taken when measuring something.

    While the beam pattern is no where near as smooth as the Outbound Road edition light, the darker area directly in front of the bike with the Supernova is what I prefer.
    Always good to meet someone who knows the limitations and the requirements for achieving proper measurements

    I haven't found the perfect lamp yet... the M99 series has this "t-shaped"/hammer shaped bright area in the middle of the beam, the SL-F (which i own) has these inhomogenities in brightness in the beam, the SL has a smooth beam pattern but no high beam... The Outbound Focal Road (which i own as well) can be easily adjusted while riding and therefore quickly adjusted from low to simulated "high" beam, but the Outbound has, as you said, a bit too much light right in front off the bike when used in non blinding setting.
    Maybe Lupine's reflector based SL-X (announced for Jan 2020) will do the perfect job... let's see


    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I agree with your assessment that the Mini-Pro 25 has the better beam pattern as it is much wider than the Lupine SLA.
    I am not so sure that this is true. In front of the bike yes, but a few meters away i am not sure. Anyway, i am planning to compare my SL-F with a M99 Mini 25 Pro within the next two months, then i can report.

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    I hadn't read the full StVZO requirements for bike lights.
    Those requirements are well hidden, even in the german part of the www. I only know of two pages were you have free access to this regulation. One is here, you can see the required measurement points (HV is the brightest point). But unless you read german well, this won't help you much. If you're really interested, i'll translate it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post

    The CRI number is also relative because of the limited number of pastel colors used to make that measurement. Even though the CRI of the MiniPro-25 is only 66, it is fine for road use. I prefer cooler 5500K to 6000K road lights to warmer colors. The black to grey asphalt I ride on just seems brighter with a bit cooler light.
    I prefer to on the Road an off-Road, any time Warmer High CRI lights.
    3800-4500K are best for any use.

    Cooler Colors only simulate more Brightnes about the higher Bluespikes for you eyes.
    The Bluespikes in practical use only are best way to blind yourself also on low outout levels , and kill any of you nigthvision ability of your eyes.

    I use only ~4000K 85-98 CRI on all of my on Road and off- Road lights.

    The High Lux Arrow style spots in the middle only disorientated, for Lux Promotion in germany only.
    in germany the first point to compare lights are Lux peaks.
    so supernova make this 4 feet size ultra bright 300 lux flashlightspot in the middle .......


    a clean light carpet bevor your bike ist the way to go and not somethink like that.

    about this only for marketing use hotspots you dont see where the light ends.

    It is crazy to read about the wires , they realy use thin 22 AWG wires like in 5 aliexpress stuff?

  18. #18
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    Wow, so many posts on this thread I don't know where to start to comment or who to address first. I guess I'll just start commenting without quoting.

    @ Gypsy; Using my Raveman light I tried standing 15 ft. in front of it and tried looking at the light ( @ 400 lumen ). Not bad, I could handle it but this is inside my home in the day with lots of ambient light . Having ambient light changes everything when it comes to how your eyes see things. In complete darkness your pupils are more dilated and therefore more sensitive to direct light. Of course a lot depends on how I aim the Raveman lamp. If I point it down a bit I found it is a lot less bothersome. However when I do that it changes the whole dynamic of the beam pattern ( lessens the throw and puts more light directly in front of the bike which like you I don't like ) Most of the time I just aim the lamp so it is completely level and let the cut-off do what looks best to me and then just use the remote to lessen the output if or when I feel it is needed. When I do this it gives me more throw and less glare from the light that is closer to the bike. I don't let it worry me how this is perceived by motorist since their lights are likely 4X as bright as mine. However when on an MUP I WILL lessen the output and /or adjust the angle of the lamp. I don't like the idea of blinding people on the popular paved paths where I live ( although usually I don't see anyone since I tend to ride later at night.

    Looking at the beam pattern of the MP25 again, the darker area in front of the bike might not be as dark as the photo would indicate. Cameras tend to react more on the brighter light, thus making the closer in light look like a dark shadow. I'm betting that if viewed in person the dark area in front would not look so dark.

    @ biking_TG; About your comment about me saying the MP25 had the better beam pattern over the Lupine.....Well....I might have to rethink that opinion. The Lupine had a much narrower beam pattern closer to the bike but quickly expands to illuminate the entire road. That said the Lupine at distance looks to have a very smooth beam pattern and is certainly more brighter than any lamp I own and looks to have great throw.

    Right now I'm just glad the Raveman CR-900 is working for me as a road / MUP lamp and can now be bought for ~ $60 USD. At the 450 lumen setting it lights up an entire two lane road and gives me adequate illumination / throw and runs more than two hours at that level. If I need more throw when at faster speeds I'll continue to use my Gemini Duo ( with wireless remote ) as my "Go to" high beam. Thankfully, I rarely have to use the Duo as the CR-900 on high usually provides enough light if I'm riding faster than 20 mph ( which is usually not too often ). I love the wider beam patterns because they help you see animals that are often on the side of the road.

    ....and speaking of animals....Just the other night I was riding down a moderate but long ( two lane ) hill. I think I had my speed up to near or over 30 mph. At the time I had my CR900 on 450 lm mode and was using the Ceco 1000 I have on it's medium mode ( the Ceco has a more confined beam pattern and thus more throw ). As I was rolling along suddenly a fox came out of nowhere and darted across the road right in front of me. I think he got as near as ten feet in front of my front wheel. Thankfully foxes are quite fast or I might not have been able to avoid hitting him. It did however scare the crap out of me. Would not have felt good sliding across an asphalt road at 30 mph if I had hit it. It happened so fast I don't think I had time to apply my brakes. Like I've said before, where I live roadside wildlife tends to be the greater threat when riding at night....looks like I'll need to remind myself of that in the future.

  19. #19
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    Higher CRI lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    I prefer to on the Road an off-Road, any time Warmer High CRI lights.
    3800-4500K are best for any use.

    Cooler Colors only simulate more Brightnes about the higher Bluespikes for you eyes.
    The Bluespikes in practical use only are best way to blind yourself also on low outout levels , and kill any of you nigthvision ability of your eyes.

    I use only ~4000K 85-98 CRI on all of my on Road and off- Road lights.

    The High Lux Arrow style spots in the middle only disorientated, for Lux Promotion in germany only.
    in germany the first point to compare lights are Lux peaks.
    so supernova make this 4 feet size ultra bright 300 lux flashlightspot in the middle .......


    a clean light carpet bevor your bike ist the way to go and not somethink like that.

    about this only for marketing use hotspots you dont see where the light ends.

    It is crazy to read about the wires , they realy use thin 22 AWG wires like in 5 aliexpress stuff?
    I agree higher CRI lights are easier on a person's eyes. The CRI index is just an average though and has limited value (see attachment apple color). The blue spike in an led with a high CRI is balanced out with higher values in the longer wave lengths. I had my corneas melted with uv lasers during LASIK surgery 30 years ago. So now I have a brownish tint to my intra-ocular lenses which I believe is a result of the past LASIK surgery. That is probably why I prefer a little cooler lighting for road use since I have a built-in brownish tint already in my eyes. When I get better medical insurance I plan to rectify the situation.

    Supernova intentionally designing high lux in only a limited beam area for better marketing promotion is possible. Since lux in Gemany is the yard stick to measure light performance by, that would give them a marketing advantage. However, we don't know that for sure.
    My old boss used to say "Don't contribute to malice or deception what you can to ignorance or incompetence". I found that to be very true throughout the years. The MiniPro-25 has accumulated half a dozen excellence awards since introduction, so it is an exceptional light, but the beam pattern should be better considering the high cost of it. The new version may be better, we'll have to wait and see if someone posts some photos online.

    Unfortunately Supernova is using a lightweight 22 awg power wire on the MiniPro-25 that I received. Using a voltage drop calculator though shows very little voltage sag due to the short length, less than .1 volts at 17 watts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-cri.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Wow, so many posts on this thread I don't know where to start to comment or who to address first. I guess I'll just start commenting without quoting.

    @ Gypsy; Using my Raveman light I tried standing 15 ft. in front of it and tried looking at the light ( @ 400 lumen ). Not bad, I could handle it but this is inside my home in the day with lots of ambient light . Having ambient light changes everything when it comes to how your eyes see things. In complete darkness your pupils are more dilated and therefore more sensitive to direct light. Of course a lot depends on how I aim the Raveman lamp. If I point it down a bit I found it is a lot less bothersome. However when I do that it changes the whole dynamic of the beam pattern ( lessens the throw and puts more light directly in front of the bike which like you I don't like ) Most of the time I just aim the lamp so it is completely level and let the cut-off do what looks best to me and then just use the remote to lessen the output if or when I feel it is needed. When I do this it gives me more throw and less glare from the light that is closer to the bike. I don't let it worry me how this is perceived by motorist since their lights are likely 4X as bright as mine. However when on an MUP I WILL lessen the output and /or adjust the angle of the lamp. I don't like the idea of blinding people on the popular paved paths where I live ( although usually I don't see anyone since I tend to ride later at night.

    Looking at the beam pattern of the MP25 again, the darker area in front of the bike might not be as dark as the photo would indicate. Cameras tend to react more on the brighter light, thus making the closer in light look like a dark shadow. I'm betting that if viewed in person the dark area in front would not look so dark.
    Since a camera exposes for the brightest part of an image, the darker areas of the image are not represented properly. I could have used HDR, Active-D lighting, and multiple combined exposures for a more representative view of what the MiniPro-25 looks like to the human eye. But I decided to go the easy route and just use the mtbr.com settings of 1.6 sec.,F4, and ISO 200 for direct comparison to France's database of tested lights. The darker areas in my uploaded images are brighter as you correctly surmised. The relative brightness directly in front of the bike's front wheel is quite low compared to the mid-range and far-range intensity.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    Supernova intentionally designing high lux in only a limited beam area for better marketing promotion is possible. Since lux in Gemany is the yard stick to measure light performance by, that would give them a marketing advantage. [...]
    The MiniPro-25 has accumulated half a dozen excellence awards since introduction, so it is an exceptional light, but the beam pattern should be better considering the high cost of it. The new version may be better, we'll have to wait and see if someone posts some photos online.
    The hunt for high lux values is a bit a problem here in germany for approved bike lights. Usually the better ones have next to high lux values also proper beam shapes, but there are some really poor ones...

    The M99 Series are one of the best (cut-off) bike lights available, but the higher the price of the lamp, the more picky one tends to be picky about things which could be done better. And as you said, it is not yet close to perfection

    And no, even their newest battery light has these bright spots in the beam, see my link in post 10 (open the site and scroll down about 3/4) to see beam shape....
    Last edited by biking_tg; 09-24-2019 at 11:14 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    I agree higher CRI lights are easier on a person's eyes. The CRI index is just an average though and has limited value (see attachment apple color). The blue spike in an led with a high CRI is balanced out with higher values in the longer wave lengths.
    Not 100% right, some High CRI types dont have anymore this spike , and also alot basic LEDs have in Daylight Range "~5000K" a very low spike.

    The quality itself have been increased alot.

    in the Past i went all the time on 3000K only LEDs to get a clear light, now i can go with 4000K to and some LEDs deliver on 5000K a great beam to.

    The Blue spike not only reduze colorsa or decrease Contrast totally, what makes for example object detection" somthink sharp lie on the Asphalt and penetrate your weels......."
    no way to see it, gray in gray.

    The other big downsides, the blusspikes reflekts any junk in the Air itself!
    dust, dirt,water..anythink what is in the Air creates a light fog wall befor you and creates visual disability.

    thats not happenig with warmer light.

    The other big Problem specialy on asphalt, in this ther are still stone splinter iun it that work like mirrors, and spezialy on the blue spikes from cooler LEDs they throw back and create an have glare for your eyes what makes additional impossimple detect problems on the street itself.


    foe many years the only way to go to get really nice light up asphalt was only to go with 3000K only LEDs.


    In the last years i switch from 3000K to 4000K coz the LED quality have increased in total.


    but 6000K will be always a no go, for me for street use.


    And now back to the M99.
    the biggest doenside from this light ist not the 6000K what is itself a nogo for streets.

    Its the absolut ugly beam!!!
    some hotspots what looking freaky, then light holes, discolorations,....it looks like a 5 year old kid assembled it from some light snippets.

    more ogly is not possible.

    only take an example from some junk light what i make for fun.
    clean and closed light carpet, without holes, spots or other pointless stuff in it.


    thats only for a try 5000K 79 CRI LED types.



    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    Unfortunately Supernova is using a lightweight 22 awg power wire on the MiniPro-25 that I received. Using a voltage drop calculator though shows very little voltage sag due to the short length, less than .1 volts at 17 watts.
    Only calc, not works.
    Voltage drops are higher or better the power losses itself.
    higher voltage=higher voltage drop.
    higher current=higher voltage drops.

    wires an not across the lenght have 100% same quality,, how solderd, connectors,...... there a many
    other aspects to.
    Spezial buck or boost driver deliver different eff grades.
    for example a buck driver delivers with voltage x and amp y 91%
    with 0,8 Volt lower the same driver delivers 78%.


    Take for example a simple chinsese junk light like Yingding.
    it have ~4 feet 22-24 AWG wires+ the round 5.5 mm connectors.

    befor 13 Watt consumption, after change to 18 AWG and put on good connectors it use 11 Watts.

    you can turn it how you want, over 10% power losses!!!!

    same like other company doing it, like this lupine, 22 thin wires+ junky connectors what heat up in use an burn down power what is wasted!!!

    you buy a ready to use light you think?
    NO,
    you have to waste now time to fix all of this, to not have 10-15% permanent power losses.

    solder better wires and buy better connectors coz all company sell you always junk.
    That is the real world on all electric wire lights.

    you have done the only possible think what is importantend to do.
    i do it always to after any buy, change wires.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ..... while perhaps the Germans brands might have a more defined cut-off. That said I'm still betting it would be too bright to view from directly in front of the bike from 15 ft. or less.
    Not Really,
    One of the biggest amount off Sells in Germany have Sigma Sport.
    with there Lightster, Sportster, the new Aura series 25,40,.... they are all Round TIR Lens type based Street lights with smooth cut-off.
    They are cheap und you find them in any Store....

    here you see a typical actual generation of recharable German Street Light from Sigma Sports.

    If you check 3 Years ago the lights from Sigma or Cateye they are more flashlights.

    Sharp cut off brings you only a jumping Line, thats one of the reasons why sigma offers softer one.
    other brands in germany sell smoother cuts then sigma........

    If you really look for sharper Cuts you will find a hand full of hundrets lights in germany.



    ~90% of all German Street lights have very smooth cut off.

    I pefer for the reason of no jumping cut line Smooth to.

    Its only a personal preference, what you like more.

    The bigest problem is still the same, they make schmall Spots for lux selling, the lights itself have low Lumen outputs and very small an not clean light carpets.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-3.jpg  

    Supernova M99 MiniPro-25 Review-k-9.jpg  

    Last edited by lostplaces; 09-19-2019 at 02:49 PM.

  23. #23
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    Just saw this review. Great beamshots (from away, and from side)!

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    I ... know that measurement values are only as good as the equipment you use and the care taken
    I'm curious, did you buy the calibrated spectrometer to only measure few (3? MP99, XS and SR) headlights? Or there were some other purposes in mind? (if the former, then I'd like to see why you think spectra and CRI are so important)

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    Supernova intentionally designing high lux in only a limited beam area for better marketing promotion is possible.
    I guess I need to see the beam pattern myself to understand this. But what's wrong with putting lots of throw in a (very) limited solid angle? That's done for engineering purposes in the first place.

    I'd love to see photos of the insides! Or a photo of the LED board (through the front glass).

    Cat-man-do:

    What would be a quantitative way to measure blinding (glare)? The simple (and so the only) way is to specify those simple old luxes (or equivalent of them). And StVZO is one of the widely-known standards for that.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    ...I guess I need to see the beam pattern myself to understand this. But what's wrong with putting lots of throw in a (very) limited solid angle? That's done for engineering purposes in the first place.
    ...
    I'd love to see photos of the insides! Or a photo of the LED board (through the front glass).
    The beam has a inverse T-shaped hotspot, and the upper part of the "T", the horizontal line, is only a few meters in front of the bike, while the vertical part goes into the distance . Imho light wasted there for the hunt on high lux values, could have been used for a more homogeneous distribution or a wider beam..

    pictures of a m99 pro and a teardown of a m99 pure+. Different models, but i guess the reflector is the same, the only difference the number of LEDs..

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post

    I'm curious, did you buy the calibrated spectrometer to only measure few (3? MP99, XS and SR) headlights? Or there were some other purposes in mind? (if the former, then I'd like to see why you think spectra and CRI are so important)
    I use the CV600 to measure CRI for static photography and video production. With the push of a button I can measure ambient light CCT and the meter tells me what number LEE color gel to apply to my lights to match the ambient conditions. This gives a seamless transition of lighting color in the photos.

    I also will be using the CV600 to measure Television Lighting Consistency Index parameters when shooting video with my Steadicam. I do some wedding and other event filming. CRI is inadequate for the Television and Film industry lighting. I try to film in the best light possible in order to avoid time consuming post-production video editing. A wedding reception I was filming got rained on and blue tarps were erected outside causing a bad blue tint to the video. If I had the CV600 at the time, I could have minimized the patio lighting problem.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    pictures of a m99 pro and a teardown of a m99 pure+
    Thank you for these links! Very good to have some Germans here who know where the precious treasure is hidden! Very detailed tear-down, the guy there even determined (narrowed down) the model of the LED!

    I was also looking for such insides photos of the Lupine SL. Do you know a couple of other secret places?

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    The beam has a inverse T-shaped hotspot
    Thanks for trying to explain this. But it doesn't make sense to me. If the brightest point of the pattern would be on the horizontal line of the "T-upsidedown", the headlight wouldn't pass StVZO. So the brightest part (the hot *spot*) has to be very close to the cutoff (as it should). But then you can't complain about some "marketing". You can complain (like *you*, biking_tg do) about sub-optimal beam pattern (and perhaps I'd join you here). But not about marketing getting in the way?

    gipsyman, I forgot:

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    So you can do a fairly direct comparison to that awesome database of lights.
    Do you mean this no-cutoff list? Are there any cutoff lights?

    > I use the CV600 to measure CRI for static photography and video production.

    Ah, ok then, now makes sense

  27. #27
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    Comparing bike light beams

    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post

    gipsyman, I forgot:

    Originally Posted by gipsyman

    So you can do a fairly direct comparison to that awesome database of lights.

    Do you mean this no-cutoff list? Are there any cutoff lights?
    The mtbr.com light database gives a good beam shape and throw estimate. Almost all of the lights tested are without a cut-off. A Specialized Flux Expert light that was tested has a cut-off beam pattern. The Specialized light was a poor performer though.

    I think Frances should have longer distance photos and side shots too so the beam pattern and throw can be more accurately represented. It is a big undertaking to test all those lights and we all have to thank him for that.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post

    Thanks for trying to explain this. But it doesn't make sense to me. If the brightest point of the pattern would be on the horizontal line of the "T-upsidedown", the headlight wouldn't pass StVZO. So the brightest part (the hot *spot*) has to be very close to the cutoff (as it should). But then you can't complain about some "marketing". You can complain (like *you*, biking_tg do) about sub-optimal beam pattern (and perhaps I'd join you here). But not about marketing getting in the way?
    The design of the MiniPro-25 beam was to provide a good long throw and fairly wide coverage while still meeting StVZO requirements. The marketing aspect of the pattern discussion was just in response to lostplaces assumptions. I personally believe the light designer just did his best with what time-to-production and funding restraints he had to deal with.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post

    I think Frances should have longer distance photos and side shots too so the beam pattern and throw can be more accurately represented. It is a big undertaking to test all those lights and we all have to thank him for that.
    I definitely liked the "road in the woods" and Tunnel beam shots" locations better but am pretty sure the "big undertaking" is responsible for the return to his backyard and its unfortunate limitations. I keep hoping He'll find a way to get back to doing the comparison tests again.
    Mole

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    Since differences in beam shape between Lupine SL and the Supernova M99 Mini Pro 25 were discussed here, there is a light comparison of a german online shop, were both lamps are included. Keep in mind that the SL has double the lumen in dipped beam compared to the M99 Mini, but nonetheless the differences in beam shape can nicely be seen.

  32. #32
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    I finally was able to do a direct comparison of my SL-F with a Supernova M99 Mini Pro 25. Thanks to another forum user, who also shot some nice pictures.

    Since there is google translate, i don't have to translate the original post myself.

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