Spacing Between Emitters?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Spacing Between Emitters?

    Most bike lights, whether single emitter or multiple emitters, are intended to be mounted at the center of the bike, usually on the handlebars.

    It would seem to me that you would benefit by wider spacing between the emitters. Like a handlebar width if possible. If you had a long throw emitter at each end if the handlebars and they were aimed so that the beams intersected at the 50% output level, you would have a wider beam pattern without a hot spot in the center. I think this would be difficult to do with closely spaced emitters.

    A third emitter in the center, aimed a little lower, with a wide horizontal beam spread could fill in the foreground.

    I know that some of you have actually mounted pairs of lights spaced widely from each other.

    Your opinions and experience please.

    Scott Novak

  2. #2
    RAKC Industries
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    Not something that would work well off road (remember this is MTBR). It at ends of bars lights would get destroyed either by areas where its tight and can clip trees or any simple crash.

    Illuminating foreground too much ruins night vision at a distance. So have to have a delicate balance in which the spill from the other emitters can do. Otherwise simple a really low output for the center could possibly work really well with your idea

    Even in a road situation that can be an issue. So your at the insides of the shift/brake levers. Will be a bit wider.

    As for the lack of hot spot, doesnt work that way, where the beams intersect will be a hot spot.

    Eliminating a hot spot is a design of optics used and rather readily available.

    That said, removing the headache side of things (being careful not to damage the lights and having wires strung everywhere) the idea is an interesting and good one. Just making practical use of it would be challenging. Definately something more for commuters or touring type use over anything else. Something where the system stays mounted at all times. Big hassle otherwise.

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  3. #3
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    Spacing Between Emitters?-001.jpg

    Have actually given this considerable thought. (First, yes I know these lights have different optics in them. Picture is to show different emitter spacing.) With identical optics have noted that beam width increases the greater apart the spacing even with these small differences. Also believe bezel design affects the width as well. My "favorite beam from a 2 emitter light" BT21 (far left) has the widest emitter/optic spacing but beam width difference is more exaggerated than spacing differences from what I believe is the fact that optic surface is much closer to being flush with front surface of the bezel than the others with more recessed optics. Also have noted that closer spacing favors increases in throw (makes sense). Would be interesting to see how the exaggerated spacing of bar end lights would work. Definitely would think there would be some visability/safety advantages.
    Mole

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Not something that would work well off road (remember this is MTBR). It at ends of bars lights would get destroyed either by areas where its tight and can clip trees or any simple crash.
    For road use you could run a wider bar and mount small self-contained lights (Urban series L&M's?) slightly inboard so the end of the bars would offer some protection. Using a "Vancbiker style mount" would allow aiming both vertically and horizontally and all other controls would just be moved inward on the bars. With drop bars you could just mount the lights inside the drops (watch that frame clearance though).
    Mole

  5. #5
    RAKC Industries
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    Road bars ya that is very doable. Ends of handlebars I couldnt see ending well. Just inside levers would be rather wide without compromising on other areas. Or maybe between grips and shifter/brakes, I could fit one there as there is a big gap there. Longish fingers but definitely long thumbs. More like gorilla thumbs than human lol.

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  6. #6
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Novak View Post
    If you had a long throw emitter at each end if the handlebars and they were aimed so that the beams intersected at the 50% output level, you would have a wider beam pattern without a hot spot in the center. I think this would be difficult to do with closely spaced emitters.
    Bicycle lamps with reflector optics don't need space between emitters. They also offer an real cut-off beam, not just marking like lights from raveman.
    For example the Outbound Lighting Focal Series:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...n-1055278.html

    Or the Supernova M99, Lupine SL and B&M Ixon Space.

  7. #7
    Action LED Lights
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    For a multibeam light like those MRMOLE pictures above (or the XS or Titan), both/all beams are pointed straight ahead. That means the center of the beams is about 1" - 1.5" apart. At 30-50ft out I'd find it hard to believe you could tell there were even 2 beams. Your going to have a circular pattern (unless you have a wide optic) that's 20ft high and 20ft-1inch wide.
    For that matter if the light is mounted exactly on center or 6" to the side the difference at distance would be irrelevant as long as it pointed straight ahead. It just looks more stylish on your bike having it on center. ;-)
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    That means the center of the beams is about 1" - 1.5" apart. At 30-50ft out I'd find it hard to believe you could tell there were even 2 beams. Your going to have a circular pattern (unless you have a wide optic) that's 20ft high and 20ft-1inch wide.
    And that's exactly why I was thinking that there would be some advantage to spreading the emitters as wide as practical on the handlebars, or some other similarly wide mount, for a low throw lighting system.

    angerdan,

    OL's latest light is by design a near field light and not meant to take the place of a long throw light. OL's light would probably make a great center light with a long throw emitter aimed for distance on each side of it.

    Scott Novak
    Last edited by Scott Novak; 02-15-2018 at 10:35 PM.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    For a multibeam light like those MRMOLE pictures above (or the XS or Titan), both/all beams are pointed straight ahead. That means the center of the beams is about 1" - 1.5" apart. At 30-50ft out I'd find it hard to believe you could tell there were even 2 beams. Your going to have a circular pattern (unless you have a wide optic) that's 20ft high and 20ft-1inch wide.
    QUOTE]
    Thinking about it this does make sense. My comments were derived from ride impressions of the different lights with identical Gloworm spot optics in each one. Actual beam width at distance would have less effect on perceived beam width than differences closer to the front of the bike. Possible emitter spacing has a lot less to do with my beam width impressions than the amount the optic is recessed from the front surface of the bezel (or some other factor I'm not considering).
    Mole

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Novak View Post
    And that's exactly why I was thinking that there would be some advantage to spreading the emitters as wide as practical on the handlebars, or some other similarly wide mount, for a low throw lighting system.

    angerdan,

    OL's latest light is by design a near field light and not meant to take the place of a long throw light. OL's light would probably make a great center light with a long throw emitter aimed for distance on each side of it.

    Scott Novak
    Note that the OL light has a higher lux intensity than the L&M Seca 2500 Enduro. A light that I don't think anyone has claimed isn't bright enough for long throw.

    The near field was designed to create the balanced illumination profile. Not as a "slow riding" light at all.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    High beam is indeed a tricky thing to do. I have ideas for a future light for road use that can do this, but this current lamp will be essentially a "low beam only". However the peak lux of this low beam at 10' is over 1700 lux with a 1500 lumen source, in a 12* wide hotspot. Which is just about as bright as a high end newer LED headlight hotspot. Essentially what I am getting at, is that the distance that you will be able to see on the road, as well as not blinding oncoming traffic when aimed properly, is going to be further than almost anything that's been produced....
    This is what gave me the impression that this was a near field light that would benefit from additional long throw lights acting as "high beams".

    Perhaps you could clarify your explanation a bit further.

    Scott Novak

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Novak View Post
    This is what gave me the impression that this was a near field light that would benefit from additional long throw lights acting as "high beams".

    Perhaps you could clarify your explanation a bit further.

    Scott Novak
    That was in discussion of the Road version of the Focal series, the one with the sharp cutoff.

    For the most part a lot of people here are discussing the lighting for trails, or in the case of mine the Trail version.

  13. #13
    NightRider
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    Balanced lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Novak View Post
    This is what gave me the impression that this was a near field light that would benefit from additional long throw lights acting as "high beams".

    Perhaps you could clarify your explanation a bit further.

    Scott Novak
    Scott,

    Outbound Lighting is producing a balanced illumination profile road light such as the old Philips SafeRide 80, if you are familiar with that light. I have a modified SafeRide that puts out an balanced beam on medium setting that reaches 50 meters. It most likely isn't as evenly balanced as the OL Focal series, but here are some photos of the evenly lit area from the SafeRide on my driveway. I don't have over 73 feet of space or I would have set up markers at up to 150 feet. I can ride up to 30 mph and see just fine.
    I still use an extra Magicshine 808E clone as a high beam to flash oncoming traffic that doesn't turn off their high beams. Because I am only an oncoming bike to them, many cars don't dip their lights if I don't flash them.
    I ordered an OL Focal road version light because of the superior build technology, smaller size, and greater power. I plan on doing a comparison of the Focal series to my current SafeRide which I have been using for over 10000 night riding road miles.
    You will need a lot less light on back country roads because your eyes are adjusted to the high contrast. That is until a car comes at you with it's high beams on!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spacing Between Emitters?-srminside.jpg  

    Spacing Between Emitters?-saferidemedium.jpg  


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