Point of diminishing returns?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Point of diminishing returns?

    I'm re-entering night riding after 13 years. The last time I rode at night was at the 24 Hours of Moab and I was running a Niterider Classic with a giant bottle battery, I think it was rated at 220lumens? The trails were fast and wide open and I thought the light was great. I can see where the more light the better on these types of trails. But...

    Fast forward to today. I'm back in Alabama, and while you definitely have your 20+ mph sections, the majority of the trails I'm riding are slower tighter wooded single track.

    My question is how much is enough, how much is too much, how much do you really need? I'm all for bigger, better, faster, brighter - argh argh argh. (Tim the tool man voice) The last 10 years the lighting technology has exploded and as a bit of a light geek it's exciting. My experience in tactical lighting has shown that more is not always better however. You enter a room with some uber bright light and not only is it not necessary, but the back glare is almost blinding. The sweet spot for me with a weapon light is 200lumen flood, more not being better, where is the sweet spot for bike lights?

    Is the same not true of a bike light on winding singletrack? I would think that throwing 3000+ lumens out the front bouncing of trees, bushes, etc, could actually be blinding. Anyway - I'm probably overthinking this, but as I'm trying to figure out where to spend my hard earned dollar, I don't want to overspend if I don't need it and I'd like to tap into the knowledge of this great forum.

    Thanks-
    c
    Early bird may get the worm.... but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  2. #2
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    Yes bike lighting has come a long way in 15 years. You need to check out the lamps with "neutral white" LED's. A lamp with this kind of emitter has less reflective glare and usually provides a more natural ( warmer ) tone to the trails.

  3. #3
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    I think 2 smaller may be better than 1 large also for a variety of reasons. I have a 300 on my helmet, and a 650 on the handlebar. I get some light both where my head is looking and where the bike is heading. Also if one craps out, you have a backup to get home.

  4. #4
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    A lot depends on the type of terrain your riding as well as how good is your overall night vision, do you live in an area where it rains a lot as riding in drizzle or rainy conditions will kill the appearance of your lights output. Also 3000 lumens in a more focused beam will appear brighter than in a wide beam, as those lumens are spread out and thus diversified. As Cat mentioned, if your sensitive to reflective glare the (neutral tint) leds would be the way to go.

    Remember it is IMO better to have to many lumens as you can always turn the power down in tight twisty areas, than to not have enough on fast descents.

    Cat, tigris99, and others are really fond of the warm tint leds. They have done some reviews on the Nitefighter brand light sets, check them out on this forum.

    Also if you want higher end warm tint light sets check out the GloWorm brand at action-led-lights.com If you are interested in the GloWorm brand the neutral tint leds are an option and need to be specified when ordering.

  5. #5
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    With both my helmet and bar lights on high, there is 3200+ lumen out there. Rarely do I use them that way. But when the trail opens up and points downhill, it's really nice to have the light. that is why so much discussion is on the board about the operation characteristics of these high power lights. How the levels are spaced, how the levels cycle, what is the beam shape, etc, are important as to how usable the light is.
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  6. #6
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    200lm? That would be horrible IMO. You might think it's ok until you ride with someone that has 1000 on their head. Personally, I wouldn't go with less than 1000lm (claimed) on my head. Another similar light on the bar is icing on the cake.

  7. #7
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    Definitely dual light set up. One on the helmet that has a tighter spot and more throw (1000-1500 lumen range is good with right beam pattern). Bars 1500-2000lumens is my preference (And I ride alot of tight wooded trails) but I mix the beam patterns so I have good spread and a bit of throw. Makes bar light enough in the tighter woods on mid level modes (high level when its down and fast) and helmet light will give you site around corners when you turn your head. Sam with it, mid level mode till its fast decent in which is put it at max level.

    Nitfighter is best in budget range, xeccon is great for mid level pricing, gloworm if you got the cash is my upper end thought. And all three companies use neutral emitters (gloworm you have to request it)

  8. #8
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    500lm on bars, 500 on helmet, thats plenty.














    Until some idiot with 3000 lumens rides up behind you and all you can see is your shadow.

  9. #9
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    Bar and helmet...a few thousand lumens between the two. No need to spend tons of money..plenty of budget choices. Check out action-led-lights.com..warehouse sale now with some good deals on reputable brands. The neutral white thing seems to be popular on here..I am kinda meh on this and while nice isn't going to game-change your night riding IMHO. No issue riding a daylight speeds through tight twisty singletrack tonight with my cool-white Geminis.

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  10. #10
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    Update: I ordered an Xeccon Sogn 900 for the bars, and an S12 for the helmet. I may end up with a diffuser for the S12 as its really spotty, but we'll see. First night ride - weather permitting, is next Thursday. Woot woot!
    Early bird may get the worm.... but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  11. #11
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    No, 3000 lumens is nowhere close to blinding as the beam can just get wider. People always claim that the top of the lumen range for any given time period is blinding and "like daytime." They were saying that about your light 15 years ago which is laughable now. In 15 years people will be saying that about the 30,000 lumen lights that are out.

    If we could truly have a light that was as bright as day, we would want it. That is 120,000 lux. To light up an area 30 feet wide by 100 feet long to daylight brightness would take 33,500,000 lumens. Yes, thirty three *million* lumens.

    So no, 3000 lumens is no where even remotely close to "too bright."

  12. #12
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    This is actually way wrong. Your missing dynamics of the human eye. When your peripheral vision is total darkness, the light in front of you will become too bright in the right conditions. Also creates "tunnel vision". Lumen output that is or isn't too much varies on the beam pattern. It doesn't automatically get wider. The reflector or optic either spreads or concentrates those lumens. Heavily wooded tight trails are the worst for overly bright lights. When you add in moist undergrowth the moisture creates mirrors which reflect light back into our eyes. Just like looking directly into even a small led flashlight. Its temporarily blinding.

    Yes your numbers may be correct, but the human eye and the fact of light it localized in front of you makes the information mean nothing in this case. As well as what each person wants/needs for light depends on that particular persons eyes.

  13. #13
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    Yes, you are correct. If you had a patch of true daylight in front of you, it would not allow you to look around to the sides at all.

  14. #14
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    condor, just curious if you had a ride with the new lights yet and how you liked them compared to the lights of old.

  15. #15
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    It's an individual thing, related to a person's individual night vision. For me, I like riding with about 1500-2000 lumens on the road and about 1000-1500 lumens off the road.

    J.

  16. #16
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    I just did a fairly technical (rocky/rooty) and tight night trail ride and had the following three lights all on max:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...rch_detailpage

    Amazon.com: 1200LM 3 Modes CREE 5V XML-T6 USB LED Headlamp Headlight Bike Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors

    Amazon.com : Cygolite Metro 550 USB Light : Sports & Outdoors

    I would estimate that at 800+600+550 lumens. Around 2000.

    It was barely adequate and I would have easily welcomed 3x as many. In fact it was my disappointment with that illumination that caused me to rethink my lighting plan last night.

  17. #17
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    Well the first 2 are crappy lights. Can't believe they made a 3.7v version of the x5. I would be surprised if it was 800 lumens. I ride technical trails like yours, 1200-1600 lumens on the bars and about the same (just in a tight spot for throw) on the helmet. That's about the max light I can do before getting bad glare from undergrowth.

  18. #18
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    rsilvers, you need to try neutral white. It's gonna be easier to ride when you can see the details of objects on the trail. Also go with a "true" 1,200+ lumens light on the bars (like a BT40s, BT21, Yinding, Xeccon, etc. . . Go floody on the bars with throw on the helmet.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  19. #19
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    Yeah. I am returning it. Amazon has free returns if the product does not match the description. It is safe to say that it does not match the 1800 lumen description.

    It is nicely packaged though, and the battery is nice, or at least would be if it were 8.4v.

    The second light is very much a spot light. It is USB, so I can use a USB pack. I ran it for two hours on my son's USB pack and it only went from 5 to 4 power bars. Pack claims to be 3.7v / 22,400 mAh.

    The USB light draws 4.7v and 1.8a at first but then dropped to 1.6a. So about 7.5 watts.

    In theory it would go 11 hours from that pack.

    The X5 clone was 5.07v and 0.14a on low, 0.20a on med, 0.40 on high (all left emitter). With both emitters on high, it was 4.95v and around 0.7a. So about 3.5 watts. Very disappointing, but it has a bunch of 5-star reviews from people who got free samples. I have a policy that if a product has mostly 5-star reviews, and if some of those people got free samples, then I refuse to buy the product. But I made an exception for this light because I thought it actually looked promising due to the Samsung batteries. But I should have trusted my first rule.

    Someone should make a light with dual USB plugs to draw 4 amps from a standard USB power pack.

    I had this one, and it seemed promising, but I left it on to test the battery life, and it died (stopped working and wouldn't turn on). Also because of Amazon being awesome, I was able to return it and not pay return shipping.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage

    Plus one cannot trust the battery it comes with.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    rsilvers, you need to try neutral white. It's gonna be easier to ride when you can see the details of objects on the trail. Also go with a "true" 1,200+ lumens light on the bars (like a BT40s, BT21, Yinding, Xeccon, etc. . . Go floody on the bars with throw on the helmet.

    -Garry
    Thanks. Last night I ordered these:

    Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water - resistant Mountain Bike Lights
    128308201
    1
    $58.89
    Adapter for Nitefighter BT21 / BT70 / BT40S Headlamp
    146781001
    2
    $3.24
    Yinding 900 Lumens CREE XM L2 2 LEDs 4 Modes Headlight Cycling Lamp ( Neutral White ) Size:NEUTRAL WHITE
    Color:BLACK
    111534302
    1
    $24.72
    8.4V 10200mAh 6 x NCR18650B Rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack
    155289001
    1
    $34.23
    Bike Aluminum Standard Handlebar Bar Mount for Gopro / HD Hero 2, Hero 3 Camera (Black)
    DP0044701
    2
    $4.84
    Subtotal
    $125.92

  21. #21
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    Did I buy the wrong Yinding? Are there ones with brighter emitters? I got XM-L2 but doesn't specify the bin.

    Then there is this one, which specifically mentions the U2 bin:

    Zweihnder 2300Lm CREE XM - L2 U2 3 Modes Bicycle Light-26.88 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    .......Someone should make a light with dual USB plugs to draw 4 amps from a standard USB power pack.
    Driving a light from a USB power bank has lower efficiency than just using a regular battery pack. There are 2 levels of power conversion when using battery powered USB to drive LEDs. Battery voltage must be raised or lowered to USB 5V. Then USB 5V must be raised or lowered to drive LEDs depending on their configuration, series or parallel.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Did I buy the wrong Yinding? Are there ones with brighter emitters? I got XM-L2 but doesn't specify the bin.

    Then there is this one, which specifically mentions the U2 bin:

    Zweihnder 2300Lm CREE XM - L2 U2 3 Modes Bicycle Light-26.88 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
    No, you got the correct one. Don't ever trust Chinese specs unless verified or from a trusted seller. They'll list "U2" or whatever will sell because you won't know the difference.

    Hope you actually get that BT21 with all the talk of being sold out and "not enough stock to fulfill existing orders". It's a great light.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  24. #24
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    We will see. Website says 88 kits in stock, but no heads. I was forced to buy the BAK battery pack, which I am ok with.

    As far as Chinese specs, I wonder why they call the Yinding 900 lumens? That seems like a overly conservative value.

    The Gemini seems to be 1200 lumens after 30 seconds:

    Review: Gemini Lights Duo 1500 - Mtbr.com

    So is the Yinding also ~1200 lumens?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by condoor View Post
    .....My experience in tactical lighting has shown that more is not always better however. You enter a room with some uber bright light and not only is it not necessary, but the back glare is almost blinding. The sweet spot for me with a weapon light is 200lumen flood, more not being better, where is the sweet spot for bike lights?

    Is the same not true of a bike light on winding singletrack? I would think that throwing 3000+ lumens out the front bouncing of trees, bushes, etc, could actually be blinding. Anyway - I'm probably overthinking this, but as I'm trying to figure out where to spend my hard earned dollar, I don't want to overspend if I don't need it and I'd like to tap into the knowledge of this great forum.

    Thanks-
    c
    I thought I'd add some more comments based on what the OP indicated: Much of what you said is true ...more or less. The amount of light ( lumen output ) you need to ride with is an individual thing. Needs to be pointed out though that a lot of what you might need depends on terrain and the beam pattern characteristics of the lamps you are using ( assuming using both a bar and helmet lamp ).

    That said, "Balance" is the key. Someone commented that you don't want to create a so-called "tunnel vision" effect. Well..that's not necessarily true; It depends on the actual tunnel you are creating with your lamps.

    To be more precise; All night riding creates a "tunnel vision" effect. The more important point is; "What kind of tunnel vision are you creating"? If you are creating a tunnel that is too narrow with too much close in reflective glare and not enough distance throw you have a set-up that is not going to be as useful to your needs. On the other hand if the tunnel you create is wide enough near your bike for you to see all the near obstacles without excessive feedback glare and the helmet lamp is strong enough to illuminate objects in the distance without being too narrow ( or too wide ) you then have a very usable "tunnel of light".

    Back to the output issue; The golden rule of night riding is: "Better to have more light ( or power ) than you need than to need more and not have it". Yes, too much light coming off the bars can be detrimental...BUT...it depends on the beam pattern, speed of the rider and terrain. Case in point; my bar lamps typically can output anywhere from 1500 to 1200 lumen ( max ) depending on what lamp I'm using. The Gloworm X2 I have outputs 1500 on high. With mixed optics the GW gives a nice overall beam pattern off the bars...not too much flood and a nice amount of throw. That said if I'm riding less than 10 mph I don't need that much light coming off the bars. If I'm riding slow I'll have my lamps attenuated to 300 lumen off the bars and 500 lumen off the helmet. I do this because for "ME", this works. I see no point in wasting battery power lighting up the woods if I'm not going fast enough to really need it.

    Conversely, if I'm moving at a good clip and approaching obstacles at a faster rate I need to see as much of the terrain as possible. As I mentioned before, "balance is the key". Keep the close in reflective glare down by moderating the bar lamp output. Up the output on the helmet and aim it more into the distance as much as possible.

    I would love to have a helmet lamp with 3000 lumen in a medium wide/confined beam pattern. For faster trails that would be sweet. That said even if I had that I would rarely need that much light coming off the helmet. The beauty of LED lighting is that most lamps have several output modes. This allows you to use the amount of light that you actual need as long as you have chosen to buy a lamp set-up with the proper, "Output to beam pattern ratio".

    Added pluses when choosing a lamp are choice of beam tint; Neutral beam tints lower the amount of reflective glare. Very useful if the output and beam pattern is right. Also great to own lamps that have good UI ( user Interface's ) Programmable modes are a great option but if you have 3 to 4 usable steady modes you should be good to go.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    We will see. Website says 88 kits in stock, but no heads. I was forced to buy the BAK battery pack, which I am ok with.

    As far as Chinese specs, I wonder why they call the Yinding 900 lumens? That seems like a overly conservative value.

    So is the Yinding also ~1200 lumens?
    Yes, ballpark of 1,200 lumens. The "good/original" Yinding drives each XM-L2 at about 2.4A (assuming you're using a good battery with decent cables) which should be around 600 to 700 lumens each (I'm too lazy at the moment to lookup the actual testing on BLF), though there is then some losses from the optics. Yes, 900 was being very conservative.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  27. #27
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    Actually I figured out xm-l2 at 2A in the yinding is 11-1200 after losses. I dont know anything of them running at 2.4A each, the yinding thread here has them getting 2A each.

  28. #28
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    Hmm. . . I have a pic of my stock Yinding pulling 2.4A off a full charge battery pack. Didn't measure at emitters though.



    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  29. #29
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    Garry - looking back, how did you like that 3-LED head you got compared to the BT21, Yinding, or BT40S?

  30. #30
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    Which 3 LED head? The Triple XM-L2 I got from GearBest? Or my SolarStorm X3?

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  31. #31
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    The round Triple XM-L2.

  32. #32
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    There's no comparison. That round triple is junk in comparison to all three of the others. Underdriven, cool white, poor thermal contact to shed heat, and both strobe & off in the mode cycle. Only positive is that it puts out a good amount of light for being so underdriven (i.e. it's "battery conserving").

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  33. #33
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    Good to know. Thanks.

  34. #34
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    Magicshine 906 looks interesting due to the wireless remote and taillight.
    Last edited by rsilvers; 11-28-2015 at 08:28 PM.

  35. #35
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    Now I see why I could not select DHL shipping:

    "After contact with DHL, we are sorry to let you know that 8.4V 10200mAh 6 x NCR18650B Rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack is unavailable to ship with DHL.

    You could choose to ship with Sweden post or cancel this item and ship with DHL.

    Please let us know your decision."

    They do allow the battery with the BT21 to go DHL.
    Last edited by rsilvers; 11-30-2015 at 08:15 AM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Now I see why I could not select DHL shipping:

    "After contact with DHL, we are sorry to let you know that 8.4V 10200mAh 6 x NCR18650B Rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack is unavailable to ship with DHL.

    You could choose to ship with Sweden post or cancel this item and ship with DHL.

    Please let us know your decision."

    Why do I get the feeling that if I cancel the NCR18650B battery, they will later come back and tell me that I also have to cancel the BT21 because it comes with a battery?
    Don't even hesitate, go with the Sweden Post for both. I've gotten complete kits through DHL before but this might be a new policy....or just an excuse to delay the order.

  37. #37
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    Shipping Methods | GearBest.com

    What can/can't be shipped via certain methods is quite confusing.

  38. #38
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    To Massachusetts USA? Sweden post is faster than the free shipping?

    I am not sure which light I will prefer, so I am considering ordering extra of both to save re-order time, and then selling 1 or 2.

  39. #39
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    If you're ordering 18650 batteries you don't have much choice for what company can ship them. I think you also have to pay for tracking..

  40. #40
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    They allow the BT21 kit with the battery to go, but not if you order another battery.

  41. #41
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    I can't follow this. Why are some expedited methods free?


  42. #42
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    I can't even start a new order as their sale is over and all of the prices are higher, so either I ship my order Sweden post, or delete the battery and let the rest go DHL.

  43. #43

  44. #44
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    Probably not? Never really know what you're going to get in those cheap packs

    If you wan't a good battery this is your best option I think: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024442

  45. #45
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    Those were $7 less on GearBest yesterday. I ordered the 6-cell version of it.

  46. #46
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    Strange that kaidomain offers shipping via DHL ($18). Your best bet is just to get them to ship your entire order through Sweden Post.

  47. #47
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    Kaidomain is just more loose on the rules then. That is pretty typical. I ordered a battery from China and they marked it as a charger and shipped it by air.

  48. #48
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    Wallbuys used to pack 18650's into cheap silicone iPhone cases to ship them normal postal mail!

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  49. #49
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    I can't find any online comments about how long Sweden post may take, except someone said that if you are in the US and use Sweden post, you are an idiot. Is it better than the free shipping?

  50. #50
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    As I said, you don't have that much choice.. maybe Sweden Post is really the only option that Gearbest can use? I'm in UK and my recent 18650 battery order was sent via Sweden Post..

  51. #51
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    I've used Sweden Post before (I'm in the US) and it wasn't great, but not awful (3-4 to weeks). I've used NL Post (Netherlands) more often and it was better than Sweden Post (except tracking sucked until it hit Amsterdam).

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  52. #52
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    Maybe their English is confusing me, but I think they are saying that I can either send it by free shipping (I assume China post method), or pay extra, and get Sweden Post.

    I don't see why Sweden Post would be the only option. I doubt it is their free method, since everything from eBay or AliExpress comes by ePacket or China Post.

  53. #53
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    I have not been happy with DHL from Germany or Netherlands at all. 2-3 weeks for two orders so far. I didn't know DHL had such a slow service.

  54. #54
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    They can't send those batteries by China Post.. look at the URL I posted about what can/can't be shipped via each of the methods they offer. The only way companies have done this is to simply lie on the customs information so it passes without issue..

  55. #55
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    I see. But that link you posted says DHL is:

    Built in batteries - OK
    Additional Batterties-OK

  56. #56
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    Then maybe something has changed recently and they haven't updated it? You should question them about it.

    There's no reason they wouldn't ship it via DHL if they could?

  57. #57
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    I want to tell them to send that extra battery the free / slow method, and then get the rest of the order via DHL. And add a second BT21 kit to the DHL order.

    But I don't have a lot of faith they can get that right. I would like to start over, but I am concerned that if I cancel the order that will result in them shipping it anyway. And also, the prices went up since yesterday.

  58. #58
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    I had an extra order there and asked them to cancel it. They said I should cancel it myself. How do I cancel an order? I can see the order on their order system, but there is no cancel button.

  59. #59
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    Found this on another forum:

    13.Can I cancel my order and get refunds?
    If the order payment status is “Unpaid”, you can delete it directly.
    If the order has been paid and the shipment status is “Unshipped”, you can contact us to cancel the order and get refund.
    If the order has been paid and the shipment status is “packing” or “shipped”, we are unable to cancel or modify the order any more.

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    I can't see how to delete it directly. There is no delete button.

    BTW, I just placed a new order, and added two BT21 kits and one Yingdin head, and the checkout offered me free expedited shipping. So it seems that once you spend over about $150, there is free fast shipping.

  61. #61
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    I have a feeling they are going to refuse to cancel my previous order that I paid for, and I will end up with a ton of these lights. Hopefully someone will want them once they are already safely in the USA.

    But I really wanted to get a fresh order in their automated system that required no interaction.

  62. #62
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    If it hasn't been shipped then no reason they wouldn't allow it. For example I had an order I had paid for but hadn't been shipped due to one of the items being out of stock - they said I could delete that item from the order and get a refund.

  63. #63
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    In a message from them, they said they would change orders, but here is says they won't change orders, so I am not sure if they will or won't.

    GearBest.com Forum FAQ | BudgetLightForum.com

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    500lm on bars, 500 on helmet, thats plenty.
    Depends on which side of 60 you are, I'm on the wrong side.....

    I have the Gloworm XS on my bars and the X2 on my helmet. Neutral tint.

    In the woods I run the XS on low and the X2 on medium. Fast downhill both on High.

    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Also if you want higher end warm tint light sets check out the GloWorm brand at action-led-lights.com If you are interested in the GloWorm brand the neutral tint leds are an option and need to be specified when ordering.

  65. #65
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    Getting off topic

    Just a gentle reminder: It never ceases to amaze me how a thread starts out on a subject and then gets taken over by someone asking or talking about a total off topic subject.

    The topic of this thread had to do with the "usability of bright bike lights and whether there is a point of "diminished returns". Basically just a discussion based on opinion but it amazes me that someone posts a off-topic post and suddenly we are talking about this lamp and that lamp and "can I get this lamp shipped"?...where from...which batteries?...yadda, yadda...yadda.

    It's real easy to start a new post or find one already on the subject you want. Use the search feature or start a new post. Try not to derail other people's posts. Thank You and happy Holidays.

  66. #66
    bt
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    why ride at night?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    why ride at night?
    OT, but, why not???
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  68. #68
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    Most people have to work during the day. In the winter, it is dark at 4pm, so they ride after dinner.

    Or maybe you commute and ride home in the dark.

    Or maybe like today, we just went for a 10.5 mile night ride for fun, in the rain I might add.

    Next you will ask "Why ride in the rain?"

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    why ride at night?



    Like vanc said, why not?





    Seriously though, part of it is how early it gets dark or people like me that work nights.





    Then there's those of us that just really enjoy it, plus no worries of hikers and such to worry about. Just the occasional wild life.



    Ride in the rain....not on trails. We'd loose land access real fast pulling that crap around here cause doing that leaves ruts and destroys trail systems. Learn a new respect when your one of the ones fixing trails after ppl pull that bs.

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