Outbound Lighting --- TRAIL EVO --- Discussion- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Outbound Lighting --- TRAIL EVO --- Discussion


    When we developed the Trail Edition back in 2017 we set out to use the same principles from car headlights and bring them to bikes. Focusing not on big lumen levels but rather a high quality beam pattern that is optimized for twisty singletrack.


    Over 4,000 customers and counting absolutely loved it. But we knew we could do better. After a year and a half of development we are excited to show you the latest evolution of our best selling light. Trail Evo




    What did we improve?


    To begin, we built on the development of the Trail Edition and Hangover, along with perfecting our unique blended-TIR approach to trail lighting. We spent hundreds of hours in simulation and prototypes to hone in on an even better beam pattern. Wider than the Trail Edition everyone loves, with more peripheral lighting along with a stronger center intensity to see even further down the Trail thanks to a boost in total lumen output. The difference is staggering.




    The blended TIR optic uses precision engineering to finely tune the beam shape, eliminating the typical “round hotspot” edges by redirecting portions of the beam to where you need it most, creating a dramatically smoother beam. The surrounding “Light Carpet” around your periphery allows you to see and react to the whole trail and not get “tunnel vision” with harsh edges. The smoother the beam, the less strain on your eyes, the better you can see and the more comfortable your night ride is.





    Just as important as beam patterns, is thermal management. When we start pushing big lumens like this, we have to worry about shedding that heat to keep the LED’s in their efficient range. We utilized an incredibly unique way of flowing air THROUGH the light, allowing for cooling air to pass directly behind the LED’s. An industry first.


    We then turned our sights to eliminating one of the main complaints most riders have these days. You don’t want to carry around an external battery pack. Which we get, it’s one less thing to lug around and charge up. Thankfully there have been lots of developments in battery technology in the last few years and high density 21700 cells have gotten better and better. So we integrated two of them into the housing of Trail Evo, resulting in a whopping 37.0 watt-hours.


    This combined with using new high-efficiency genuine CREE XD-16 LED’s means we can get an incredible amount of light while maintaining 2.5+ hours of usable runtime, without an external battery pack!


    Combine the fact that we can run this light at 150+ minutes of usable runtime and you start to wonder what else you could possibly need. Need to last longer than that? We are one of the only bike lights on the market that offer pass-through charging. So you can hook up any USB powerbank you may own and it will supplement the light as your ride goes on. Giving you unparalleled flexibility for your specific riding needs.







    Let’s talk about runtimes for a second. The bike light industry tends to like to use the FL1 standard, which rates runtime as the time it takes to go from full brightness to 10% output, an outdated measure that harkens back to the days of using Alkaline batteries, and when you would swap out your flashlight battery…..



    But this is 2020. We need to get real about runtimes. Nearly every single light on the market starts out full brightness and diminishes over time, and this is okay. Our eyes adapt to the darkness and as long as the reduction is gradual, we literally cannot tell the difference until reaching about 50-60% of the perceived brightness. Which is why we say that we have 150+ minutes of usable runtime in our standard Adaptive Mode, we aren’t going to call this “high” anymore and have a mode that isn’t actually high…. we made that mistake once.



    Here is the expected runtime chart. This should be far more useful then just a single number.




    Our High, Medium and Low Modes are SOLID output modes that are designed for the rider that changes the light intensity often. Low and slow for the climbs, maximum output for the fast descent. Medium is the perfect setting when paired with the Hangover on the helmet to get nearly 4+ hours of runtime. Adaptive is for the rider that hits the trail hard right from the parking lot and doesn’t want to think about changing output often. Just set it and forget it and get 150+ minutes of runtime.




    Every mode has a 20-minute reserve that drops to low, we don’t want you getting stuck in the woods with no warning, or no way to get out in time. Plus let’s be honest, if you left it on high you probably were really only going to get another 3 minutes of runtime before totally going out, so lets put in a safety measure…




    Outfront Centered Mounting


    For a bar light to act like a proper headlight, we need to put it in the best location for a headlight. Out front and centered on the cockpit. For this we developed a durable and easy to use quick release mounting system that has been used for years in the professional camera industry. You simply click the light in and tighten the over-cam, and with one hand can release the light. We designed this to be used easily with thick gloves.












    Standard USB-C Quick Charging


    Just like with Hangover, we have USB-C quick charging as standard. This allows you to quickly charge the light using anything you might already have. Any USB QC 3.0 compatible external battery pack will work to charge Trail Evo while in use, or before you hit the trail.


    With Trail Evo, you can get an hour of runtime in just 30-40 minutes with a compatible QC 3.0 charger, and a nearly full charge in around an two hours. While not as quick to charge as Hangover (single 18650 battery vs two 21700 cells) it is still MUCH faster than any comparable light on the market.
    The included customized USB-C to USB-A cable is designed to create a snug and watertight seal around the USB port of the light.


    **Shown with optional Evo Cable Manager installed.



    American Made Quality.
    Like the Trail and Road Edition, these lights are built in America. We work closely with our PCBA supplier in Phoenix, AZ with full-time staff on-site assisting with assembly of Evo. We put a massive amount of engineering work into making sure we can assemble our lights quickly, accurately, and with the highest quality to ensure that we keep production stateside for years to come. Backed with a no-questions-asked warranty and amazing customer service. We want you to be a customer, a friend, and an Outbound rider for life.




    What is included?

    • Trail Evo light
    • USB-C charging cable
    • 31.8mm bar mount clamp
    • 35.0mm bar mount clamp
    • Quick release “shoe”
    • Choice of orange or black anodized washers
    • Hex tool to cleanly install the mount
    • Instruction manual



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here it is guys. This was about a year and a half of development work that was done almost in-line with Hangover, but as we brought Hangover to production we learned a lot of neat optical tricks and processes. We finely tuned and tweaked the optic in simulation with a new supercomputer that I built for this specific purpose. The result is nothing short of awesome.

    The CREE XD16 chips are larger than the XQE used in hangover, which meant needing a little larger TIR opening to have the control we wanted, we fine tuned the amount of TIR overlap to get that good balance of peripheral lighting and optical efficiency aiming forward. The blended TIR approach also eliminates any harsh cutoffs that the Trail had, such as near the edge of the tire and the upper horizontal cutoff line. The EVO beam pattern is elliptical-ish, but it is still shaped to have the "light carpet" that Trail did well with.

    Thermally, we are pushing way more power than the Trail through a little bit more thermal mass. However we wanted that clean aesthetic look similar to Hangover, but obviously need to shed all that heat somehow.... so what did we do? Just push the air THROUGH the light of course!



    You can see the intakes underneath the light, that then pass through several fins that are attached directly to the LED's and exhausting out the top of the light. Providing an unbelievable thermal pathway when in motion at any speed. This built upon the knowledge that we implemented in Trail with the bar mounted scoop, but obviously taking it a bit further. It was a challenge to make this part actually manufacturer-able but we got it done.

    The little trickery that we have going on to get some unbelievable runtimes is not only the thermal stability allowing the LED's to operate well above the typical efficiency, but is also the fact that the XD16 chips are a generational leap in efficiency. Get better optics that improve the forward lighting even further, get chips that operate 30% more efficiently, and it's how we achieved having similar run times to an external 4 cell 18650 battery pack, with an internal two cell 21700 pack.

    We checked, tested, validated, checked, and tested again all those runtime claims and charts. We learned our lesson from Hangover.

    The quick release mount is also something really cool. SUPER robust and extremely easy to use. The shoe that is built into the light is what will be used moving forward with our lights. However there is provisions on the bottom of the light for future mount ideas, such as a gopro tab or even a garmin mount could be printed and screwed into place.

    Honestly, it's 1:30am here, I'm dog tired, been going at it for weeks now trying to keep up with orders. Let me know your questions!

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/product/trail-evo/

    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  2. #2
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    Did a 50 miler tonight that got me home late enough to be able to place my EVO order. The cats seemed less excited than I was!
    Mole

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    Well, using my approximately 6 hours of time advantage I was probably one of the first readers . Sure looks like something I'd like to have for Christmas!
    Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombath View Post
    Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here
    Can only tell for Germany, but it took roughly a week until USPS shipped it to Germany and then it took some days for custom. Shipping in the country of destination is fullfilled by the std. ex-national post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Let me know your questions!
    How about some lux values at the center and the edge? And some lumen numbers? If you don't want to spread them publicly, i'll also take a PN . Otherwise i am sure MrMole will provide a few numbers

    Looks like a nice light, impressed with the cooling solution, that's definitely a industry first!

    Regarding the beam comparison:
    to compare your Trail Evo (or Trail) to a Gloworm X2 is neither really helpful without saying which combination of lens types (spot, flood, elliptical) you used, nor is it really fair, as a better candidate for comparison would be the XSV with a mix of different optics to imitate the beam of the Trail Evo. (unless your comparison was solely based on price, but still that X2 has a remote, which your light doesn't have)

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    I'm ready to order. How would I obtain the code for existing customers?

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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    Awesome work. Are both orange and black washers included in the box or do we have to chose a color at time of checkout?

  7. #7
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    The light looks awesome! Cant wait for mine to be delivered!

    One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?

  8. #8
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    Got mine on order. Can’t wait!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    The light looks awesome! Cant wait for mine to be delivered!

    One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?
    Outbound wrote in one of the other threads, that a) you can't charge the Evo fast enough (while operated in high mode) to avoid draining the internal battery (it only happens slower) and b) there is a certain voltage threshold below which the light won't go into high mode anymore, similar to the hangover.

    So if you want to extent the runtime, you have to connect the powerbank from the beginning of your ride.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombath View Post
    Well, using my approximately 6 hours of time advantage I was probably one of the first readers . Sure looks like something I'd like to have for Christmas!
    Anyone here has some experience with flat rate international shipping to Eastern Europe? How long it takes and who manages the shipping? Is it DHL/UPS/etc., or it comes through the standard ex-national post companies? VAT and customs are always a huge PITA here
    Yea... EU shipping is indeed a major PITA, and it's kind of why we have such a high shipping price. We typically use the local post, which is cheaper but it takes for. ev. er. and customers are never happy, and 50% of the time are convinced we lost the package. To be honest, biking_tg's experience is not normal, he got lucky.

    DHL is insanely expensive ($70-80 to ship a Trail for example) and FedEx/UPS isn't much better because they slap a lot of fees on top of things. Put those on top of the local duties that some customers have to pay and it seems no one ends up happy.

    However. For 2021 we are working with a distributor who's very interested in helping with EU distribution so we may be doing that sooner rather than later. First goal is to get supply/demand stabilized (feels like running on a treadmill!) and then we will focus on getting more global reach.

    ----------------
    Regarding the beam comparison:
    to compare your Trail Evo (or Trail) to a Gloworm X2 is neither really helpful without saying which combination of lens types (spot, flood, elliptical) you used, nor is it really fair, as a better candidate for comparison would be the XSV with a mix of different optics to imitate the beam of the Trail Evo. (unless your comparison was solely based on price, but still that X2 has a remote, which your light doesn't have)
    We compare with what comes out of the box from Gloworm, which is a spot and flood optic. Could people swap them out, sure, but do most customers actually do that? We highly doubt it. We do have the X2 up as a compare because the price point is similar. We were really hoping the new Niterider Lumina 2500 was ready so we could direct compare to that. We like the Gloworm guys and aren't looking to try and "take them down" we just wanted to use a comparable product at a comparable price range as that is what customers will be cross-shopping.

    FYI the XSV uses the same optics and LED's, just one extra one, so you'll still end up with the same beam pattern just a little brighter center spot.

    Will get more beam comparos up here soon. It's been an insane few days leading up to this, and going to be an insane few days trying to manage everything. But I'll say this, our main "competitor" for this light was the $250-ish price point, which includes the various new NR's, Taz 2000 comp, and the various external battery setups like the gemini, gloworm, etc.


    Are both orange and black washers included in the box or do we have to chose a color at time of checkout?
    Both are included, it comes installed with orange washers but we have a set of black anodized washers in there too. We know some people really want that clean look.

    One quick question. If the internal cells are depleted can an external battery be plugged in to power the light at full brightness or must the internal cells first be charged beyond a certain threshold for that to occur?
    Biking_tg got it right. Best to plug in the powerbank early on to slow the rate that the battery drains when in high. Because we are using USB-QC we are limited by the max wattage we can put into the battery and drain. Medium mode is one that can be run "indefinitely" where the charge rate balances the consumption rate (just under 3A).
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yea... EU shipping is indeed a major PITA, and it's kind of why we have such a high shipping price. We typically use the local post, which is cheaper but it takes for. ev. er. and customers are never happy, and 50% of the time are convinced we lost the package. To be honest, biking_tg's experience is not normal, he got lucky.
    That's understandable . Is the normal way you are using for international shipping tracked (I don't know of this is the right word for having a tracking number)?

    For customs and VAT I am a bit out of luck even with an EU-based distributor, because the customs are low, however the VAT is 27%, and that is added to most of the things coming from other european countries, too.
    -----
    The daytime strobe I guess is a normal 1 or 2 Hz flashing light. What is the nightime pulse? Is it like the daytime visible flash e. g. on Niteriders and Cateyes?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Biking_tg got it right. Best to plug in the powerbank early on to slow the rate that the battery drains when in high. Because we are using USB-QC we are limited by the max wattage we can put into the battery and drain. Medium mode is one that can be run "indefinitely" where the charge rate balances the consumption rate (just under 3A).
    Does the light actually default to the med. mode or is light output controlled by available current levels (and output efficiency)?


    FYI the XSV uses the same optics and LED's, just one extra one, so you'll still end up with the same beam pattern just a little brighter center spot.
    Actually the XSV uses XHP50.2 emitters and optics designed to work with them. X2 & XS use XM-L emitters with appropriate optics for its emitters. Though not 100% sure I think both style optic's beam angles are the same but emitter output profiles are quite different and would affect the beam pattern so probably should edit out this comment.


    Bar clamp doesn't look adjustable so curious about bar diameter compatibility?
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombath View Post
    The daytime strobe I guess is a normal 1 or 2 Hz flashing light. What is the nightime pulse? Is it like the daytime visible flash e. g. on Niteriders and Cateyes?
    Based on the run time, it seems like it probably sets the lower 'bound' of the pulse on low and the upper bound to 'high'. A handful of manufacturers do that with their lights so you can actually see at night, but still have a pulsing/strobing light.

    I personally think if you need the light to see, the pulse is irritating at best, but it seems almost impossible to sell lights in the USA without including strobe/pulse modes.

    *edit* I'm aware they're behind a different UI on this light. Just commenting on a strange way of approaching using a light.

  14. #14
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    Placed my order - stoked to get this upgrade over my L&M. My Hangover is awesome.
    BTW, your website doesn't have any place to log in for repeat customers, even though it lets you create an account on checkout.

    Great review of the Trail EVO (and Hangover) over on NSMB: https://nsmb.com/articles/outbound-l...il-evo-review/

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    After reading all the threads on Outbound Lighting's products, I purchased the Evo Downhill package last night. Prices are very fair with the BF discount. Kinda blew my budget but I'm getting a top-end product.

    My interactions with Matt have been great. Fantastic customer service despite launching a new product.

    Very much looking forward to riding with these lights soon.

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    Question about bar mount options. I love the current trails mount because it adapts easily to my bar stem combo which isn’t round. What options will there be for mounting besides the included mount now or in the future?

    And what about helmet mounting? I know you recommend the hangover. However I already own two of them and something about their beam pattern ruins my depth perception when helmet mounted(this could be unique to me being that I am blind in one eye). Like the hangover otherwise, it just doesn’t work for me on the helmet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I'm probably the oddball here, but I really don't mind riding with an external battery pack and like the longer run times. Has anyone seen a USB powerpack that has a case that can be strapped to the bike frame or did you all just make your own?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Climber View Post
    I'm probably the oddball here, but I really don't mind riding with an external battery pack and like the longer run times. Has anyone seen a USB powerpack that has a case that can be strapped to the bike frame or did you all just make your own?
    Based on size, weight, and output, I'm looking at this:
    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...E0R296YX&psc=1

    I'll likely add a strap or other way to affix it to the bike. Might get 2 so I have one for the Hangover helment light too.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Bar clamp doesn't look adjustable so curious about bar diameter compatibility?
    Mole
    https://www.outboundlighting.com/product/trail-evo/

    What is included?

    • Trail Evo light
    • USB-C charging cable
    • 31.8mm bar mount clamp
    • 35.0mm bar mount clamp
    • Quick release “shoe”
    • Choice of orange or black anodized washers
    • Hex tool to cleanly install the mount
    • Instruction manual

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    What is included?
    [*]31.8mm bar mount clamp
    [*]35.0mm bar mount clamp
    Thanks!
    Mole

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    Hi is it compatible with the Outfront GoPro Mount Adapter?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by R32uned View Post
    Hi is it compatible with the Outfront GoPro Mount Adapter?
    It isn't, that is just for the Focal series of lights. We are quickly working on a set of mounts for gopro adapters. We honestly did not think there would be that much demand for some so we will be offering it as a 3d printed item much like the outfront mount currently.

    Question about bar mount options. I love the current trails mount because it adapts easily to my bar stem combo which isn’t round. What options will there be for mounting besides the included mount now or in the future?

    And what about helmet mounting? I know you recommend the hangover. However I already own two of them and something about their beam pattern ruins my depth perception when helmet mounted(this could be unique to me being that I am blind in one eye). Like the hangover otherwise, it just doesn’t work for me on the helmet.
    That is a good question regarding non-round options, we haven't looked that far into the future yet, but should be fairly simple to adapt to with some thinkin'. We've been so busy trying to get this project spun up we put some of the smaller details to the side.

    One other thing we are working on is an inexpensive DC5521 to USB converter so that people can use their old trail packs as additional power sources for Evo if they upgrade. Similar to what magicshine has, but wanting it without extra cables and stuff.

    As for helmet mounting. Technically possible, but this is also 275g, almost 3x heavier than the Hangover. Mostly all has to do with the two 21700 cells vs a single 18650.


    ------------------------------------


    Ya'll..... today has been INSANE. We had good hopes about launching this product, figured would maybe do double our best day last year (black friday and when the pinkbike article dropped), instead we did SIX TIMES better. It's unreal. Thank you all so much for your support and have some very long nights ahead of us working hard to get things out the door.

    Tom was already at our PCBA manufacturer in Phoenix today inspecting components and getting ready for our very large PCB run that is starting tomorrow and running through Monday. All the hard parts are already on site and have been doing assembly of the mounts. We knew they'd be busy, but we are already calling up our suppliers trying to get another batch run ASAP based on today's demand so that we won't run out by the end of the year. DESPITE us already doubling what we "thought" we'd sell because surely we wouldn't end up doing six times over our best day on a light we've kept quiet about and don't spend a lot of ads on... right?

    Thanks again guys, these lights are a culmination of your inputs over the years, whether you think we are listening or not, always watching.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


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    Just wanted to say congrats. You've clearly earned it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    However. For 2021 we are working with a distributor who's very interested in helping with EU distribution so we may be doing that sooner rather than later. First goal is to get supply/demand stabilized (feels like running on a treadmill!) and then we will focus on getting more global reach.
    That (EU distributor) cannot come soon enough... The only thing holding me from ordering an DH EVO package is the frustration with postal service and local customs...

    Stefan

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    Quote Originally Posted by sstefanov View Post
    That (EU distributor) cannot come soon enough... The only thing holding me from ordering an DH EVO package is the frustration with postal service and local customs...

    Stefan
    You aren't the only one.... it feels like half of the orders that go international (except canada) end up with unhappy customers due to the the wait, customs holding, duties, cost, etc. I hate dealing with unhappy customers so it's also an issue I want to deal with.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


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    I can't wait for mine to get here!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXrocks View Post
    I can't wait for mine to get here!
    Me too but I wish I'd waited a little longer to order. Got a e-mail with the existing customer discount code about 8 hrs. too late.
    Mole

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    Existing customer discount email? I haven’t seen one and I funded the kickstarter of the very first Trail lights and have bought two hangovers when they came out

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Me too but I wish I'd waited a little longer to order. Got a e-mail with the existing customer discount code about 8 hrs. too late.
    Mole
    I bet they would take care of an existing customer.....

  30. #30
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    Ya'll know the drill. Just send me a PM with your order number and I'll take care of you. Most likely the email might have hit spam, or somehow your email got off my list.
    OutboundLighting.com
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    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  31. #31
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    I assume there is no way to control either the Evo or Hangover via a wireless bar mounted remote, let alone both simultaneously, correct?
    2021 Norco Bigfoot VLT 1
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I assume there is no way to control either the Evo or Hangover via a wireless bar mounted remote, let alone both simultaneously, correct?
    Not yet.

    Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.
    OutboundLighting.com
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    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Not yet.

    Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.
    Thanks for the response.

    A lot of my ride profiles are up, up, then down, down, down. I assume that’s the same for many. Anyway, being able to manage battery consumption via a remote is a thing for me, especially on 3.5 hour plus rides.

    Not a deal breaker though.

    Do you know how the Evo and Hangover will handle temps down to minus 15 C (5 F)?

    Any issues that you anticipate shipping two Evo DH sets to a Canadian address? Either delay wise or cost wise (custom duties, etc)? Do you have any idea at all what the ETA would be if I ordered today?

    Good luck with continued success.

    Thank you.
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  34. #34
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    We've got guys riding up in alaska going down to -30*F all the time without issues. Well, there was a weird hangover issue at temperatures that low that they were able to replicate and we were able to fix (changed the set point of the thermistor).

    No problems going to Canada. We ship via USPS so no duties to our friends north of the border.

    We are hoping to start shipping late next week. However we have already sold um.... a LOT. So we are trying to hire some temporary help, and it'll be a massive effort getting everything built. So can't really give an exact date for orders placed today.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    We've got guys riding up in alaska going down to -30*F all the time without issues. Well, there was a weird hangover issue at temperatures that low that they were able to replicate and we were able to fix (changed the set point of the thermistor).

    No problems going to Canada. We ship via USPS so no duties to our friends north of the border.

    We are hoping to start shipping late next week. However we have already sold um.... a LOT. So we are trying to hire some temporary help, and it'll be a massive effort getting everything built. So can't really give an exact date for orders placed today.
    Thanks. One more question if I may...

    Apologies in advance if this is not appropriate. I don’t mean to pit your offerings up against any other industry offerings.

    That said, I was wondering if you could comment, in very general terms, what I might expect if I were to replace a Gemini Titan 4000 and Duo 2200 bar/helmet combo, with the Evo and Hangover. Obviously I lose the external batteries (for better and for worse) and have no optional wireless simultaneous remote with the Evo DH kit. But performance-wise, are there any insights you might be able to share?

    Highly interested and may be ordering today.

    Thank you for your ongoing patience.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Thanks. One more question if I may...

    Apologies in advance if this is not appropriate. I don’t mean to pit your offerings up against any other industry offerings.

    That said, I was wondering if you could comment, in very general terms, what I might expect if I were to replace a Gemini Titan 4000 and Duo 2200 bar/helmet combo, with the Evo and Hangover. Obviously I lose the external batteries (for better and for worse) and have no optional wireless simultaneous remote with the Evo DH kit. But performance-wise, are there any insights you might be able to share?

    Highly interested and may be ordering today.

    Thank you for your ongoing patience.
    I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.

    So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.

    So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.
    Super appreciate the no BS transparency. Respect.

    And still highly interested...

    Those are all my questions. Thank you. Wishing nothing but continued success and growth for you.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I think you'd be disappointed on the hangover compared to a dedicated Duo 2200 with the external battery pack, and while the titan would be technically "twice as powerful" it's still a fairly circular beam pattern that probably gets lumen stable around 2500-3000 lumens. Evo I would be happy to say would probably be better if you are doing tight single track.

    So if you were wanting to ditch the battery packs entirely, but with your existing setup I'd just get an Evo to start and enjoy that on the handlebar but keep your Duo 2200 with a battery in the backpack or something. The hangover is more designed to compete with self contained units like the Lumina 1200 or L&M urbans.
    It's straightforward, no BS feedback like this that really makes me feel great about supporting your company Matt. It's also exactly the information I was looking for. I have been running a gloworm X2 on my helmet with a battery in my pack. I really value the high lumens and long run time, so I don't think the hangover is for me. I think the EVO that I ordered is going to pair well with the X2 though, can't wait to get my hands on it. EVO sounds like the perfect bar light.

    Wish you guys all the best. My biggest fear is that you will be too successful and won't be able to keep up. I guess there are worse problems though!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skooks View Post
    ...I have been running a gloworm X2 on my helmet with a battery in my pack. I really value the high lumens and long run time, so I don't think the hangover is for me. I think the EVO that I ordered is going to pair well with the X2 though, can't wait to get my hands on it. EVO sounds like the perfect bar light.
    I was running an X2 on the helmet with my Outbound Trail from the original Kickstarter on the bars. I was interested in the Hangover to get rid of the battery pack and cable hassle on the helmet. I preordered a Hangover and honestly I was a bit disappointed, it didn't compare quite as well to the X2 as I had hoped.

    But for the vast majority of my riding it turns out to be more than good enough to be worth running for the extra convenience, and it does pair quite well with the Trail light on the bar. The X2 is a bit of overkill, but it is also a very good light and if I were doing longer rides or unfamiliar/faster trails I would probably opt for it. Regular rides on the trails that most of my night rides are on, the Hangover works well and if I didn't own the X2 I would probably use the Hangover for everything without a second thought.

    If I had any say in it, the Hangover would be 120g and have a 21700 battery and it would be closer to ideal to me. Or there would be an easy way to swap the battery and I would just have a second 3400mah 18650 in my pocket. But I get the reasons for designing it the way it is and it is a very good little light. I ordered a second one with my Evo and for longer rides where I want to be able to run at a higher output, I will just swap the Hangover mid ride, it's not much to keep in my pack. This still seems preferable to running an external pack on a helmet light.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    If I had any say in it, the Hangover would be 120g and have a 21700 battery and it would be closer to ideal to me.
    Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.
    Oh man. V2.0 hangover... Yes please. Brighter, larger battery and slightly heavier. All for the win.

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    Just placed my order and super pumped to pair it with the hangover. Glad to not mess with the battery packs anymore. My old lights were magicshine.

    I took the hangover with me yesterday while deer hunting and got caught in the middle of a storm at dark. The hangover lit up the woods so I was able to see my way out easily. It was a good chance to test out the waterproofness as well haha.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Or there would be an easy way to swap the battery and I would just have a second 3400mah 18650 in my pocket.
    If you're already carrying a second battery, why not just plug it into the Hangover?

    (I guess my point is, do you know that you can use it while charging?)

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    If you're already carrying a second battery, why not just plug it into the Hangover?

    (I guess my point is, do you know that you can use it while charging?)
    Sure, but there is a big difference between having to run a cable from my helmet to a USB battery pack for the entire ride, and having a little sub 50g spare battery in my pack. If I have to screw with an external pack I'll just run the X2 light on my helmet. Having the option to run the Hangover at a higher output, or using it for longer rides, and doing a quick and easy battery swap once during the ride is a preferable solution to me. Even just having a second Hangover to swap out is a better option than the cable and external pack. Which is a big part of why I ordered a second Hangover.

    Looking towards using the Evo and having two Hangovers, I can see for longer rides having a USB battery pack on the bike to extend the runtime of the Evo, and even having the option of using it to recharge the first Hangover while using the second Hangover for very long rides.

  45. #45
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    Placed my order yesterday - the number one selling point for me (besides being a mechanical engineer myself and loving products designed by engineers instead of the marketing department) is the option of the external batteries. About 90% of my night time riding is around 1,5 hours, plus some 20 minutes on the road to get to the trailhead. For this the Evo+Hangover pair seems perfect without the need of carrying external packs, and for the remaining, much longer duration 10 percent (which might also require some overnight charging in a tent) I would be carrying powerbanks anyway.

    My current setup is a NR Lumina Dual 1800 on the handlebar and a Lunivo Sirius 1000 Mini on the helmet. The Lumina is a really good light, good spread, good throw, however the battery life kind of sucks: bit above 3 hours on medium, around 1,5 hours on high, less then one hour on Boost, so I end up constantly switching between medium and high (sometimes boost), which gives me about 2 hours of safe riding time, but there is no option to extend that. Also it requires it's own proprietary adapter, so no options to recharge it anywhere without 110/230 volts.

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    I imagine this is too heavy for a ski helmet right? I got my hangover recently, and definitely a fan. Thinking I might want a bit more power for night skiing, but I dont actually know, and the hangover could be plenty.

    Either way, I need more lights for my wife and I, so trying to figure out if I should just buy another hangover, or get this big one.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by scurry4 View Post
    I imagine this is too heavy for a ski helmet right? I got my hangover recently, and definitely a fan. Thinking I might want a bit more power for night skiing, but I dont actually know, and the hangover could be plenty.

    Either way, I need more lights for my wife and I, so trying to figure out if I should just buy another hangover, or get this big one.
    I've been using the Hangover for split-boarding and it's more than enough light. Keep in mind the snow reflects a lot of light. I picked up a GoPro head-strap so I can climb with it on low and the run it on high on the way down. Also works great for night XC skiing.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Your wish will be granted in due time. Need to finish up the self contained Road, and work on the Tail first, but then sights will be set for a V2.0 of Hangover to slot in between "lightweight" hangover and the Evo.
    This please! I'd even vote for skipping the roadie light and going straight to the Hangover 2.0 . It'd be cool if there was an upgrade path for the 1.0 to the 2.0 Just a thought...
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I've been using the Hangover for split-boarding and it's more than enough light. Keep in mind the snow reflects a lot of light. I picked up a GoPro head-strap so I can climb with it on low and the run it on high on the way down. Also works great for night XC skiing.
    Perfect, thats all I needed to hear, especially from a VTer (Im down in RASTA land). I'll get the package, and have the big EVO for MTB and the second hangover for my wife.

    I just weighed a bunch of things, I imagine while light, the EVO would be far too heavy for that purpose anyways.

  50. #50
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    No. I do 90% of my riding on road and really, really, want to see the road light so don’t want to see any cancellation of the road to see a quicker development of Hangover 2...
    Last edited by MOBH; 2 Days Ago at 12:23 PM. Reason: Clearer message

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOBH View Post
    No. I do 90% of my riding on road and really, really, want to see the road light so don’t want to see any cancellation of the road to see a quicker development of Hangover 2...
    Don't worry, in order to jump to the next level and get that next batch of Outbound riders... we absolutely need a game changing road light that's perfect for commuters and casual riders. Something the current Road can't really do with the large battery pack and stuff.

    Thennnnn we can get back to the Trail party.
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  52. #52
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    Tom has been working his ASS off at our supplier in Phoenix jumping right in with the folks on the assembly line helping train and assist in getting these things rolling. Meanwhile I am in Chicago building as many hangovers as I can.

    We may actually be able to hit our self-imposed deadline of early December to start shipping these. Basically going to be doing daily UPS shipments from Phoenix to Chicago where I'll put the Evo's in their respective boxes and get things shipped out.

    We have over 700 orders for Evo's so far and just a two (sometimes 3 or 4) man crew, and we can really only get stuff checked, packed, and shipped in a finite amount of time. So any patience is greatly appreciated. We really can't wait to roll these out fast. Been working 14-18 hour days non-stop the last few weeks.

    Outbound Lighting --- TRAIL EVO --- Discussion-127631266_373783793846053_7871185966750637716_n.jpg
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Tom has been working his ASS off at our supplier in Phoenix jumping right in with the folks on the assembly line helping train and assist in getting these things rolling. Meanwhile I am in Chicago building as many hangovers as I can.

    We may actually be able to hit our self-imposed deadline of early December to start shipping these. Basically going to be doing daily UPS shipments from Phoenix to Chicago where I'll put the Evo's in their respective boxes and get things shipped out.

    We have over 700 orders for Evo's so far and just a two (sometimes 3 or 4) man crew, and we can really only get stuff checked, packed, and shipped in a finite amount of time. So any patience is greatly appreciated. We really can't wait to roll these out fast. Been working 14-18 hour days non-stop the last few weeks.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    On the one hand it's great to hear you're so devoted to getting things done, on the other hand, take care of yourself and don't get burned out

  55. #55
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    Well, as you know I rarely have commented on the Outbound products. With this one though I just had to weigh in with my own opinion. The design of this lamp I find to be absolutely revolutionary. If I were in the market for a new bar mounted self-contained MTB lamp I would surely consider buying one of these. I absolutely love a bar lamp with a wide beam pattern and this lamp has the goods, all in a very nice looking and well thought out design.

    Now the only thing preventing me from ordering one of these myself is that I always insist on a MTB bar mounted lamp that has NW emitters that are somewhere in the temperature range of 4000-4500K. If there was a NW option I would be buying one of these right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    .....Surprisingly, I rarely ever get a request for remotes so it hasn't been a priority in development. I honestly thought there would be a larger amount of customers inquiring about it and demanding it.
    Oh there is a demand. That is why most of the Gloworm products offer a remote and why other lamps ( Lupine, Ravemen, Gemini, Fenix and a few cheap Chinese brands ) also have the option. It doesn't get talked about so much because now there are lamps that offer the option. Ten years ago that wasn't the case and people ( like myself ) talked about it all the time. People don't talk about UI's that much but every lamp has one and everyone has their own preferences when it comes to those as well. Now with all this said, beam pattern preferences trump any desire for a remote so my guess is that you will sell out of these really fast.

    Now as for me, once again I have to sit it out as I simply will not compromise when it comes to beam pattern and tint. For MTB, I'm a died-in-the-wool neutral white mountain biker for life.

  56. #56
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    Thanks for the update, and for all the tremendous work guys! And yeah, don't burn yourselves out. We need you to keep designing new awesome lights for us!

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