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  1. #401
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    Should be, have them look up PN W563046.

    I have a Blaze helmet but couldnt get used to the extra weight or feel of the wavecell. It was used one short ride and then I went bak to my MiPS helmet.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Should be, have them look up PN W563046.

    I have a Blaze helmet but couldnt get used to the extra weight or feel of the wavecell. It was used one short ride and then I went bak to my MiPS helmet.
    Yeah I was just checking it out and on paper and the helmet looks heavy and I wonder if Wavecell impedes airflow a little. But the mount for the light is super clean. Looks well integrated with as little wasted space (height) as possible while being angled downward enough.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    You probably donít wear the fanny pack I see in your vids when bikepacking? If you did, a charger pack would give even longer output. I am not a very tech savvy guy, but wouldnít it also charge your GoPros if needed?
    I do carry an auxilary battery to charge GoPros, gps,lights, and phone. I don't, however, want any cables dangling from my helmet when my bike is loaded up with all my bags and bikepacking gear. Simplicity is a thing of beauty when I'm bikepacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    I know people want wireless, but I do not want more weight on my neck, especially on longer rides.
    It sounds like the hangover is the ideal light for you. I, on the other hand, would prefer more capacity for my needs, even if it means a bit more weight. We all have different needs/uses.

  4. #404
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    The whole weight issue had me concerned. Didnít want you getting any whiplash injuries. My mind wanders to a light with batteries in a flexible external configuration that could Velcro to the outside of a helmetís ribs to allow for custom weight distribution without disturbing the mips or other safety features. I am not an engineer of any sort, and will not be rigging this up on my own for fear of a fire.
    I too wish the light had a longer burn on high, as I would love to ride for hours at night. I will make due for now, and see what Matt comes up with in the future for power options.


    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I do carry an auxilary battery to charge GoPros, gps,lights, and phone. I don't, however, want any cables dangling from my helmet when my bike is loaded up with all my bags and bikepacking gear. Simplicity is a thing of beauty when I'm bikepacking.



    It sounds like the hangover is the ideal light for you. I, on the other hand, would prefer more capacity for my needs, even if it means a bit more weight. We all have different needs/uses.

  5. #405
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    don't get me wrong, I think this light is awesome. I'm just naive enough about light, lumens, specs, runtimes, and batteries to have known that it was unrealistic to expect 2h on high. I still think it's a cool light, but I'm excited to see what comes next from outbound.

    I have only ever ridden light on my head (not the bars), so I like it to be pretty beefy. i've got some bright lights with an external battery pack, but self-contained is just so convenient for me. Since the hangover is already half the weight of most other helmet lights, I figure if he can make one that's double the runtime and double the weight, I'm game.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    My mind wanders to a light with batteries in a flexible external configuration that could Velcro to the outside of a helmetís ribs to allow for custom weight distribution without disturbing the mips or other safety features.
    I've played around w/ this idea quite a bit. The best setup I found for me was a smaller 2 cell pack velcro'd to the rear bottom of the helmet. I had the lighthead mounted fairly forward on the front of the helmet, so they sorta counterbalanced each other. Zero clue on the safety aspects. I'm generally worried about blunt force impact during my crashes. ha

    I can tell you, I already prefer the Hangover to my homemade hack. Although, the Hangover would allow for the same concept with an external pack velcro'd to your helmet...

    Edit: it wasn't that much of a hack (tiny triple xp-e head unit w/ an external pack), but I still prefer the all-in-one nature of the Hangover, with the ability to extend runtime as needed with an external pack. I've given up on DIY lights. So many off the shelf good options nowadays...didn't used to be that way.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----img_20191220_173245685.jpg
    baker

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I have only ever ridden light on my head (not the bars), so I like it to be pretty beefy. i've got some bright lights with an external battery pack, but self-contained is just so convenient for me. Since the hangover is already half the weight of most other helmet lights, I figure if he can make one that's double the runtime and double the weight, I'm game.
    Only ever ridden with a light on your head? Time to get crazy and add a bar light to the mix. If you are doing anything remotely technical, there are significant benefits just in shadow creation/rendition.
    baker

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.
    Attachment 1299731
    As an owner of the same helmet (same color, even...), I have to ask if you find that the Outbound, verses a heavier light like Trek's own Ion 1300, suffers from making the go-pro insert break free from the magnetic insert on chunky trails.

    I found with the Ion 1300, personally, that I needed to modify the mount to take 2 1/4" neodymium magnets to keep it from bouncing on moderate jolts (though it still would when I hit something particularly hard)...and that was with the light more-or-less centered on the mount. The stock magnet is almost good enough, but looses something like half it's potential hold strength due to the mounting system.

    *edit* seeing that someone asked, the mount comes with the helmet (as does it's less-expensive cousin). As above, I personally find that the mount is less secure than it could be, especially considering the "best" helmet (the Lithos) that it replaced.

  9. #409
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    I am quite certain that the Hangover is not for me. If anyone wants to offer me $99 plus shipping please send a PM. Thanks

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGT View Post
    I am quite certain that the Hangover is not for me. If anyone wants to offer me $99 plus shipping please send a PM. Thanks
    Why is it not for you?


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  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.

    Thanks.
    It looks like it has already been well covered, but yes it is a Bontrager Blaze. I'm pretty happy with it yet I would only recommend it with reservations. It's too expensive primarily, and there is no single supremely outstanding thing about it other than for me, it is hands down the best fitting helmet I have ever had. Which is a valuable feature indeed for anyone with my skull. I don't know if it is something about the Wavecell material or just random luck, but it fits me great. But for anyone else I would suggest trying it on first. It does have a decent feature list, but not one that entirely justifies the price. The helmet/GoPro mount is indeed included with the helmet, and on mine it is very secure yet easy to remove. It is retained by a combination of magnets and snapping into its position. It works very well with the Hangover. The Boa adjuster also works well and the FidLock magnetic strap clasp is cool.

    I also live in Florida, and I don't find it to be a hot helmet, it feels cool enough that I haven't noticed a difference from other well ventilated helmets. And as a bonus it comes with a second helmet pad that includes a sweat strip kind of like the Halo sweatbands that I have relied upon for years. This helmet allows me to ride without being blinded by sweat, and without a sweatband. This alone is probably worth the price to me.

    I don't know if the Wavecell is the best option for concussion protection or not, the opinions are mixed and the testing somewhat ambiguous, but it does seem to at least be on par with Mips and other technologies. That was the initial thing that got me interested in this helmet, but the overall combination of useful features and outstanding fit sold me on it.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    As an owner of the same helmet (same color, even...), I have to ask if you find that the Outbound, verses a heavier light like Trek's own Ion 1300, suffers from making the go-pro insert break free from the magnetic insert on chunky trails.

    I found with the Ion 1300, personally, that I needed to modify the mount to take 2 1/4" neodymium magnets to keep it from bouncing on moderate jolts (though it still would when I hit something particularly hard)...and that was with the light more-or-less centered on the mount. The stock magnet is almost good enough, but looses something like half it's potential hold strength due to the mounting system.

    *edit* seeing that someone asked, the mount comes with the helmet (as does it's less-expensive cousin). As above, I personally find that the mount is less secure than it could be, especially considering the "best" helmet (the Lithos) that it replaced.
    Mine is very secure, I have even run it with a mount doubler and a light and camera at the same time. I just got in my first really good trail ride with the Hangover on it last night and it worked perfectly, I could adjust aim and change settings easily and without the light or mount shifting at all. It sounds like there is a problem with the snap portion of the mount on yours. The magnet almost seems secondary to it snapping into the little recessed sockets at the front of the slot. It takes a firm press on mine to snap it in, and it is a positive feeling when it engages. This sounds like a warranty issue.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I've played around w/ this idea quite a bit. The best setup I found for me was a smaller 2 cell pack velcro'd to the rear bottom of the helmet. I had the lighthead mounted fairly forward on the front of the helmet, so they sorta counterbalanced each other. Zero clue on the safety aspects. I'm generally worried about blunt force impact during my crashes. ha

    I can tell you, I already prefer the Hangover to my homemade hack. Although, the Hangover would allow for the same concept with an external pack velcro'd to your helmet...

    Edit: it wasn't that much of a hack (tiny triple xp-e head unit w/ an external pack), but I still prefer the all-in-one nature of the Hangover, with the ability to extend runtime as needed with an external pack. I've given up on DIY lights. So many off the shelf good options nowadays...didn't used to be that way.
    I share your opinions and had a very similar setup with my Gloworm X2, running a 2 cell pack strapped to the helmet. The extra weight was noticeable but acceptable as an alternative to being connected by cable to my hydration pack or pocket.

    After one good trail ride with the Hangover, for the most part I didn't miss the significantly higher output of the X2. Matt has created a niche for himself with his very well developed beam patterns and the Hangover on the helmet makes the most of what it puts out and indeed paired well with my OL Trail light on the bars.

    I did begin to run out of light towards the end of what was a longer than typical night ride for me, it was in the second stepdown, low part of the "1.9 hours on high" of output. I ran it on high for the majority of the ride when in singletrack, keeping it off on doubletrack and at regrouping stops. I also didn't really miss the wireless remote from the X2, the button on the Hangover is easier to use than the button on the X2 lighthead so the bar mount buttons no longer seem as needed although it is a neat convenience.

    So it's not a perfect replacement for the X2 but it seems like it is going to work for me. And if there is a second generation Hangover with a 21700 battery or swappable cells, I will be a day 1 buyer, as I was for the Hangover, based on my experience with the Trail lights and buying from Outbound. I'm still playing with my options for extending the runtime of the Hangover, I didn't take any extra sources of power on the first ride wanting to see what it could do as a true standalone. And I'm not particularly excited about going back to cords but there are some interesting ways to do it.

  14. #414
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    Snow got so cold, it is like riding in sand. Will try a longer night ride when it melts in a few days.
    Last edited by Stihlgoin; 12-21-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  15. #415
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    I received my light last night. Impressed with the small size and light weight. Like others, mine produces a high pitched audible whine that is annoying. I doubt I'll be able to hear it while riding but I certainly can hear it while it's on my helmet and I'm standing still. Bummer. Hopefully there is some sort of update that can get rid of this.

    Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?

  16. #416
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    I received mine yesterday too. As others have said, the quality seems really good, very bright and good pattern. I did detect the whine, but only slightly. It seems to be very faint on mine. I haven't had a chance to take it for a ride yet, but hope to soon.

    I'm also interested in a battery charger for it.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxkid View Post
    Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?
    I've had great luck with Anker products, used them to charge my iphone for extended GPS jaunts with MTB & Moto. Also plane trips.

    Anker PowerCore 10000 PD Redux

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----71oixcb7bxl._ac_sl1500_.jpg

    There's a cooler, smaller version.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----61uddfb-qol._ac_sl1500_.jpg

  18. #418
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    I also got my light today looks great. This also looks like a good power bank I'll end up getting.

    https://youtu.be/xuaeOnkHQ_w

  19. #419
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    Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?[/QUOTE]

    It looks like you would want a QC 3.0 charger to get the quick charge times Matt lists. I linked one in an earlier post. Any charge pack with the proper power delivery will keep it running, but if you wanted to top it off during a break in the action quickly, the QC 3.0 units would be to your benefit. Mine was $20 after an Amazon coupon.

  20. #420
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    From 5/29/19:
    "We're not using USB PD (Power Delivery), we're using USB QC (Quick Charge) protocol. QC enables 5V/3A charging from a large range of chargers without any weirdness in the communication, so if you have a USB charger than can put out 15W, you'll get full power no matter what. PD would be great to reduce charge times even further, but the protocol is much more inconsistent depending on brand, which would reduce the number of chargers that would be truly compatible with our fast charging rate. Meanwhile, any PD-capable charger should also work at 5V/3A with the Hangover. We wanted to make it easy for anyone to find a charger and have it work as advertised, so QC is a better path for the majority of users."

  21. #421
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----001.jpg

    Here's the options I currently have. Ravepower 5000mAh (cylindrical one/130g), Ravepower 10000mAh (flat one, 175g), and the 2 cell pack I normally use with my lightheads + the Magicshine usb converter (120g total). The runtime test I did a few posts back that extended the high modes total time to 2.6 hrs. was done with the 5000mAh bank. I didn't use the higher capacity powerbank because I thought it might be a bit too heavy. I've not tried the 2 cell + converter yet and am hoping it works well but will have to test and I'll post the results I get.
    Mole

  22. #422
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    Here is how the hangover looks on a Bell Sixer helmet. At first i didn't like the break away go pro mount, cause it would rattle with a light on top of it. Well the easy fix was to crazy glue the edges.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----ob1.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----ob2.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----ob3.jpg

  23. #423
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    I have the sixer helmet as well, don't like how loose the light thing is either. So your light mount is basically permanent?

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  24. #424
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    No i just glued the center part that was lose. The mount can be still removed as normal.

  25. #425
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    Here is the ituo GoPro strap mount.



  26. #426
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    how about these two?

    https://www.amazon.com/Portable-3000...78&sr=8-4&th=1

    https://www.amazon.com/TOVAOON-24000...7316478&sr=8-5

    i still need to figure out how to mount the battery on my helmet.
    2020 yeti sb165 t2

  27. #427
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    Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races).

    -Garry

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races).

    -Garry
    I agree! At least a 2A minimum charging rate is probably a must though as I've heard of charging problems at lower output levels. I tested my 3400mAh 2 cell pack with Magicshine usb adapter and got 243 min. in high mode so considering the low weight that's a better option than the powerbanks I have though a little more costly.
    Mole
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 12-26-2019 at 02:56 AM.

  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races).

    -Garry
    oh yeah good point. i didn't think about that. haha
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  30. #430
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    Name:  Screenshot_2019-12-26 Amazon com Xcentz 5000mAh 18W PD Portable Charger 2 USB Outputs with USB C.png
Views: 797
Size:  130.8 KB

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...8K5A3ZLL&psc=1

    This one looks pretty good to me but just by looking at the specs., have no actual experience with it. 101g, fast charge capable, 5000mAh capacity. It's one I'd consider trying if I needed a powerbank.

    Tip I just learned
    playing around with different external power sources today!!! The Hangover's output degrades about 25% in the first 15 or so minutes of operation which proves to be a problem for my old eyes since it's a bit limited on power to start with. Turning the light off and right back on again seems to bring the light right back up to it's start up levels at which point it starts to degrade at a similar rate. I haven't had a chance to test to see how deep in the battery capacity cycle you'll still be able to do this (hopefully even after it steps down to med.). Of course it will drain the battery capacity faster but nice to have this option if you need the extra output.
    Mole

  31. #431
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    Sticky mount didn't work for my helmet. Swiped a strap mount from my wife's assorted gopro accessories. The straps didn't hold very well, so I removed them and used zip ties instead. Kinda ghetto, but the mount is nice and tight.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----20191224_231048.jpg  


  32. #432
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    I personally like that idea! I'm more about function over form anyway!
    -Garry

  33. #433
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    OB Trail & Hangover

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  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Long View Post
    Sticky mount didn't work for my helmet. Swiped a strap mount from my wife's assorted gopro accessories. The straps didn't hold very well, so I removed them and used zip ties instead. Kinda ghetto, but the mount is nice and tight.

    Just got my Hangover...right out of the box I was surprised how small it is. Planning a ride tonite but I'm on the fence regarding the adhesive mount. I've used strap mount for years with Luminas and no issues. My son has a bunch of old Go Pro stuff but rummaging through his cache of hardware there's no strap mount to be found.

    Typical winter ride includes considerable vibration, branches, moisture, and temps below freezing. I could be wrong but that's a lot to ask of an adhesive mount that's not a perfect match dimensionally to the curvature of my TLD helmet.

    EDIT...Found this in my son's GoPro stash...I think this will work fine
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----outboundmount.jpg
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  35. #435
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    On my A1 helmet, I simply cut a strip of adhesive out of the pad to clear the ridge in the helmet. I've never run across an issue with the adhesive used on the gopro mounts.. it has always been surprisingly strong, I have no qualms with the mount, even without a perfect mate to the surface.

    A layer or two of paper under the clip of the mount stops any rattles.

    The light itself I am happy with. I am still irked about the way the battery life is presented, as it is clearly not anywhere near 2 hours on high as is written everywhere. An hour of riding on medium had the light indicated 50% charge remaining as expected.

    For my use, the medium setting is adequate. The high setting is too bright and washes out the shadows created by the trail light (which I also use entirely on the medium setting, both for climbing and descending)

    The low setting is a bit too dim for practical descending use. Plenty of light for being able to see around in general though, ie any off the bike stops, around the car after the ride. If it was the only source of light, it would get you out of the woods.

    I'll try med-high on the trail paired with medium on the hangover next. The beams merge together flawlessly, it's just a matter of getting enough shadows from the bar light. The hot spot of the hangover is noticeable, but done appropriately so as to not cause too much tunnel vision or loss of peripheral.

    Negatives: The rubber port cover is far too loose as others have mentioned. That's a real let down considering how carefully the optics are considered. I also notice the whine that has been discussed. When climbing slowly it is faint but present. The rubber I will likely remove and replace with a dedicated USB-C port plug that fits to keep any potential dirt out. The oval that aligns with the port should be taller on the rubber flap, to secure it into the port when closed.

    The cast gopro tabs on the light fit a bit loosely into the mount. I cannot get a very secure clamp between the two. It has been snug enough not to cause a noticeable issue on the first ride, but I was also fiddling with things a bit.

    The over-molded TPU/Rubber on the top half is a bit poorly formed above the gopro mount on mine. The lip is fully formed and the unit is sealed just fine, but again just not the level of detail I would have expected given the great experience with the trail light - and I think that really sums it up. The trail light has clearly been such a good unit, that expectations were quite high for the hangover, and it has not met the same mark. Still a good light, I will keep it and use it regularly.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----helmet-mount.jpg  

    Last edited by MatchBC; 12-30-2019 at 08:58 PM.

  36. #436
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    Maiden voyage with the Hangover last night.

    Like:
    The Hangover is smaller and lighter than I expected but it puts out an impressive amount of light for it's size. It was easy to change from low/med/high while riding and wearing winter riding gloves.

    Immediately noticed the wide beam is very different from the Lumina 950 I've been using for the last couple of years. I mounted the Lumina on my bars and the Hangover on helmet. Holy sh*t...having two lights was a treat! I've done night riding every fall/winter for many years and this was first time I ever rode with 2 lights.

    I experimented by turning one or the other off but most of the time I had both running on MED setting which was more than enough light for tight, technical, wooded New England singletrack. By itself, the Hangover on HIGH was great but I only used this setting for select portions of the trail.

    My needs are close-up lighting to clearly see the rocky/rooty terrain, obstacles, ice, etc. Very little fast/flowy terrain around here so looking way ahead is not as important to me.
    The Lumina has a brighter beam but the Hangover has more USEFUL beam pattern for my trail riding. The two in combination were awesome.

    Could be better:
    Battery life is so-so...I had it plugged into USB in my truck when I got to the trailhead so it was 100% charged and ready. Temp was about 32degF and ride was 1hr-45min using mostly MED setting. I would say 25% of ride was on HIGH. I had 1 bar at end of ride. Post ride beer and load-up was about 30 minutes and it was still on 1 bar when I headed out. If I use MED setting 50% and HIGH 50% should get me 2hrs. In super cold temps it may be challenged at 2hrs.

    Don't care:
    Hum...when I took it out of box and turned it on in my house I could hear it. I can't see how this would bother anyone on the trail. You can't hear it while actually riding.

    Dust cover...really? Any light I've ever had it's all about the battery and once it goes it's time for a new light. On average that's about 3 years for me.

    Bottom line, for $100 I'm happy and it's a keeper.
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
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  37. #437
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    Another ride with the Hangover. No moon with a mix of snog (snow fog) and clear. Put all 3 settings to good use. High on fast 30+ mph gravel sections. High through twisty descending singletrack. Medium for most other stuff. Low on the long slow climbs. Worked great.

    The only place it sucked? Snog. Lit up everything like being in a snow globe. I imagine that would be the case for any headlamp. I was better off with just the anemic handlebar Exposure Revo Dyno light for those sections.

    Oh yeah, the button is totally usable with lobster claw mitts. A big plus for me on a 23 degree ride...


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    baker

  38. #438
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    ^^^ yep. Fog lights are mounted low on cars so that they don't light up all the snow/fog in your line of sight.
    What, me worry?

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    ......The only place it sucked? Snog. Lit up everything like being in a snow globe. I imagine that would be the case for any headlamp. .......
    Another condition where a helmet light creates vision issues is dust. Get in a group night ride in late summer in a place where trails get dusty and you'll see a similar effect.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post


    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
    Funny, but looking at this photo this song popped into my head. ...and yes, I live near Baltimore, Md. ....funny...I happened to buy some crab soup when I went shopping tonight.

  41. #441
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    I've had a couple of rides now on mine, and I feel like I can expound more on the state of the light; The corresponding light for the bars is an Outbound Trail.

    The first ride was a titch more than an hour long, so there was never any worry about the state of charge in the light. Due to an oversight (not having ridden in almost a month due to weather/obligations), I wound up with the bar light on medium-high for the majority of the time. I switched the Hangover from medium, to an occasional high, but found it largely unnecessary, even on wide open downhills [nb: this probably had something to do with having the bar light on a higher-than-intended mode]. After the ride, as expected, the battery was ~half discharged. Wholly adequate for the length of time riding. The spill of light on medium is MORE than the Bontrager Ion 1300 that I was previously using, without the wildly overpowered center spot. Weight of the light is noticeably less than the 1300--not surprising--and the profile allowed sneaking under low-hanging vines/branches that required dismounting/hugging the handlebars previously.

    The second ride with the light was with roughly 80% battery capacity, and ran for a bit less than 2 hours. This time, I left the bar light on medium low for the entire ride, and switched the Hangover between low (singletrack that was flat/pointed up) and medium (faster flats/downhills). By the ~1 hour mark of my ride, I was unable to switch into high mode, even if I wanted to; I have to say, that that particular design feature of Outbound's lights may very well be a deal breaker. Ultimately, I can live with it, but would prefer that the light let me manage my own output...at the very least, allowing me to switch into a higher mode for a minute or two before stepping down. The rest of the ride was uneventful, and I was able to see everything I needed to see, when I needed to see it. I am quite familiar with the place that I rode, so a lower level of light was adequate...riding in a less familiar place, I could easily see needing more light/runtime than the light can provide. By the time I finished the ride, the light would go into medium, but had only a 'chiclet' left before it would be locked out.

    Generally speaking, the light spill is significant to the sides, but constrained in an up-down sense. Throw is more than adequate on high, though not in the same sense as a light like the Bontrager that throws an impressive distance, but has an irritating hot spot, especially when passing though tight trees. The Hangover has no such limitation in that respect, being much more useful in wooded areas. I appreciate, as with the Focal lights, that there is no 'flashlight' effect. There is light were I am looking, especially to the sides, but no excessive hot spot in the middle.

    Regarding the finish on the light: as noted above, my unit has what appears as a gap above the mounting splines, but which is filled with the sealing element that runs around the unit. I go out of my way to not ride in wet/poor weather, but given the rest of the construction of the light/the construction of the Trail, I am currently devoting little worry to this.

    The hum is, in a word, noticeable. I would leave it up to each individual person just what that means; as an erstwhile piano-tuner, it is both immediately obvious, and persistent, even while moving. The more I need to concentrate on the trail, the more it melts into the background, but it is THERE when I listen for it. The fact that my particular unit (and I must assume, others) is loudest when it is on low, and the bike is likely moving the slowest, is bothersome. When/if it becomes possible to update the light--which I am sure will require sending it back, since there is no USB recognition when plugged into a computer--I will absolutely be taking advantage of it.

    So, where does that leave the Hangover? I find it occupying it's own space. It has a beam pattern, form factor, and run time that is not matched by anything else currently on the market (for the pedants out there: that is, ALL THREE things). You can certainly buy more powerful single-cell lights, replaceable cell lights, or lighter lights, but nothing that manages the weight/beam-pattern/self-contained nature of the light. The pass through function of the light allows extending the run time. I find this agreeable, coming from using a remote-battery light on the helmet. If the extra run time/power is necessary, a cache battery is useable, and even suitable to the light. It adds no more significant weight than carrying extra cells, and comes with the added benefit of not having to worry about dropping something when it is cold...which for those of us that are riding at night, is typically when worrying about the run time of the battery is necessary. I could personally see this light, using modified internals/no internal battery becoming an even-more-niche just-for-helmet mounting.

    It is not a perfect product in the current state--but it is quite close. Refining the current model (fixing casting issues, if it is a consistent problem; improving the fit of the charging port cover; changing the programming of the light to remove the keening ["hum"] from the circuitry) would make a light that ticks off everything I personally need in a helmet-mounted light.

  42. #442
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    I got mine a couple weeks ago and finally used it.

    >You can notice the "hum" when standing but not so much when riding.

    >Medium is OK but high mode I much prefer as it has a nice beam pattern, tone and color

    > it's nice and light which is very nice when running on a helmet. Also it sits a bit lower than a lot of helmet lights that seem to be 4-5" above your head and can catch branches

    >Mounting is a bit tricky as the light sits low and if your going to run the cord to a power bank you have to get the angle right so that if you plug the cord into the light it's not pushing the light up too high. Took a little fidgeting to get it right

    >Run time is a disappointment. If your going to do a 2 hour ride your have to either run medium or bring a powerbank

    > I ran mine to a powerbank and used the stock cord. The stock cord is not very long and won't reach to a jersey 3 back pocket so for now I am running it to a jacket front pocket. Have to think about where to place your powerbank or maybe there is a longer cord?

    so for $99 it's a nice light with some limitations

  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by newking View Post
    ...

    so for $99 it's a nice light with some limitations
    At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.
    That is a very important distinction and I agree 100%.

  45. #445
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    Really good little light!

    I finally got a chance to test out the Hangover. My first impressions are quite good. The build quality is phenomenal and the light mounts nice and low on my Giro helmet with an integrated mount, which is excellent. As expected, the beam pattern is superb. I found the medium setting to be more than adequate for general trail riding and paired well to both the medium and medium-high settings on my Focal trail series light which was mounted on the bars. For the rowdier downhill sections I put both the Hangover and Focal Trail lights on high and felt that I could ride as fast as when riding during daylight. The lights on high are ridiculously bright and produce exceptional and well-matched beam patterns. I did not notice the high pitched hum while riding. I also did not feel like I had a light on my head. It is very lightweight.

    My ride started before dusk so I did not push the light to the edge of it's battery capacity. This has been discussed ad nauseam but here are my $.02 after some real world use. This light will need to be managed to endure longer rides. As I mentioned above the beam pattern is very usable even in the medium setting so I would recommend using medium while riding general trails/XC. For the climbs I would go to low or even turn it off. I would reserve high mode for the high speed descents. While a "set it and forget it" mentality is always nice, this light does not afford that luxury.

    Constructive feedback for @Outbound based on my use of this light:
    A light with the same brightness/beam pattern with a larger cell, multiple cells, or a user swap-able cell would get my money on day one. The current design is very lightweight and my opinion is that there is some headroom (pun intended) to add a little weight in exchange for longer run time.

  46. #446
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    Think I'm finally getting somewhere on figuring out how to most effectively use the Hangover (for me anyway). Med. setting is OK but I think this is a much better helmet light using the high beam only. It's approx. hour runtime in high works for most of my rides since I don't use a helmet light on road/path situations and my rides usually have around a 75/25% road/dirt split. For bar use the med. mode is fine (I don't plan on using the Hangover on the bars mtn. biking) and for extended mountain rides I don't mind adding my 3400mAh 2 cell battery pack w/usb converter which gives around 3 hrs of high mode runtime. I do wish the Hangovers output didn't degrade 25% in the first 15 min. but still has more throw than any other helmet weight self-contained light I've tried and if I need the extra output all I have to do is turn the light off and right back on again and it returns to it startup output levels (kind of like double clicking to a boost mode). Word of warning, each time you do this it takes about 6 min. of your high mode runtime (higher output requires more energy) so plan accordingly, especially if your not using an external power source. Another thing I've noticed is the Hangover works far better in combo with the OB Trail on the bars than any other light I've tried it with so far (OB Road or 2nd Hangover, Ravemen LR800, Ceco 1000, Cygolite Ranger 1400).
    Mole

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    ...Med. setting is OK but I think this is a much better helmet light using the high beam only....I do wish the Hangovers output didn't degrade 25% in the first 15 min...
    I 100% agree with this statement!!

    Most of my rides are in the 2ish hour range but, now that I know the strengths and weaknesses of this light, if I'm heading out on a ride where I know I'm only going to need it for about an hour it sure would be really nice to have a mode such that I could turn it on high and have it stay on high until it dies rather than prematurely stepping down in an attempt to achieve a runtime I don't necessarily need.

  48. #448
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

    Can confirm this adapter works with the outbound and the supplied USB cord.

    https://a.aliexpress.com/e39MilzA

  49. #449
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    Favorite bar light combo for the Hangover?



    I've tried several different lights as a bar combo with the Hangover and so far the OB Focal Trail is my favorite. Curious what others are using and how they rate the compatibility?
    Mole

  50. #450
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    Riding with a powerbank



    Needed to get some good saddle time in last night and wanted to take the Hangover even though little dirt was involved (so bar mounted). 34 mi. route planned meant the internal battery wasn't going to be enough so got my first extended ride with an external power source (Ravepower 10000mAh powerbank). Operated perfectly as expected and was nice not to have to worry about using the high mode too much to conserve battery power levels. 2.4A powerbank output was enough to do the whole ride with between 25 and 50% of the powerbanks capacity left and the internal battery still fully charged at the end of the ride.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----004.jpg

  51. #451
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    MRMOLE, curious...why bar mount for dirt?

    I did yet another ride w/ the Hangover tonight. I was lazy and didn't recharge, so I figured I'd have capacity issues (but could limp home w/ my dyno driven light). While cruising through some twisty, icy, singletrack, the Hangover dropped from high to medium on it's own. Not a real pleasant change at speed. I guess I'd prefer a gradual dimming rather than a sudden drop in output, but it was a self-imposed issue due to not charging.
    baker

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    I've tried several different lights as a bar combo with the Hangover and so far the OB Focal Trail is my favorite. Curious what others are using and how they rate the compatibility?
    Mole
    I don't have many different lights to test these things but I have been using the Hangover on my helmet with the Outbound Focal Trail edition on the bars and I love it. The beam patterns and output are fantastic, especially when both lights are on high mode. I feel no deficit compared to daylight riding.

  53. #453
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    First ride two nights ago. Here was my impressions:

    - I heard the whining when it turned on and was really discouraged by this. However, once on the ride, I never noticed it.
    - I just used a sticky mount to the top of my helmet. The range of motion of the swivel was perfect and man I loved the broad beam coverage. I paired it with a niterider 1600 (I think?) on the bars and honestly, I felt I could've rode anything with both on their brightest settings.
    - I rode for almost an hour on max brightness in pretty chilly conditions (for NorCal, hah ~34F). I never saw any evidence of reduce brightness.
    - I LOVED that my helmet didn't seem to get "skewed" from the weight. I couldn't even tell the light was there honestly as my helmet never slid down or to the side due to the weight. I think my placement helped as well as I made sure it was at the apex and centered on the helmet by wearing the helmet and having my wife mark dead center with a marker.

    Obviously this was n=1. More testing required, and I don't mind that
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
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  54. #454
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    I got out for my first fat bike snow ride on the trails yesterday after work, finished at dusk first time using the lights Overhang and Trail. Made a little video of my ride second halfís with the lights on if you want to check the spread! I was very pleased helped follow the trails in the snow!


    South March Highlands - Kanata Jan 2020 - Fat Bike https://youtu.be/P_49e9XkwKM


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  55. #455
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    Got the light at Christmas. I'm impressed with the design and size. Implementation was below expectations - a divot in the moulding and the first LED over moulded.

    My intention has always been to bar mount the Hangover so modified a Topeak ridecase mount.

    Photos show the divot, Hangover mounted in conjunction with a Lupine Neo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----dscf3554.jpg  

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----dscf3555.jpg  

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----dscf3556.jpg  

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----dscf3526.jpg  


  56. #456
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    For those who may do a search on this thread in the future for run times here are a couple more real life data points to consider before you make your purchase. I did two rides with my Hangover this week. For both rides the temp was in the mid to low 20's F.

    The first ride I started with it set on high, unfortunately I didn't note the time when it dropped down to medium (I'll try to get that next time) but I hit my lap button when it dropped to low and that was at 48 minutes.

    The second ride I started with the light set on medium and when I hit my lap button when it dropped down to low my timer was at 1 hour and 50 minutes.

    I don't find the light to be useable for trail riding on low so on both rides I swapped it out for my backup light and consequently I don't have any data for how much longer it is capable of running on low.

  57. #457
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    Like the Hangover overall. Build quality is great with the exception of that wonky USB port cover.

    Beam profile is excellent. Amount of light on high is plenty for fast trail riding. I always pair a helmet light and bar light.

    Runtime... Like others, a bit disappointed. Medium is ok, but I would prefer a smooth ramp down of output instead of the steps.

    Tested running the light with an Anker 10,000mah battery bank and supplied USB cable. Was still going strong on high at 3.5 hours. Should take care of any night ride I'll ever do if I toss that in my backpack. Will probably just attach 2-cell battery to my helmet for normal rides to avoid the step down to medium.

    Time lapse at 10 second intervals.

    https://youtu.be/ORcQfCgguCA

    Anker PowerCore 10000, One of The Smallest and Lightest 10000mAh External Batteries, Ultra-Compact Portable Charger, High-Speed Charging Technology Power Bank for Iphone, Samsung Galaxy and More https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0194WDVHI..._rttlEbFKQ63ZE

  58. #458
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    Another few rides with the hangover, one hiccup. Dropped down to low after 35 minutes, despite starting with a full charge. Hopefully just a random blip of weirdness...
    baker

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Another few rides with the hangover, one hiccup. Dropped down to low after 35 minutes, despite starting with a full charge. Hopefully just a random blip of weirdness...
    The Achilles heel of this light is definitely the run time. It seems like the common solution is to get a USB power bank and strap that to the helmet or run a wire to a pack.

    That defeats the whole purpose of this light.

    That said, I love the output and beam. I would definitely buy a similar light with the same output if it had a second cell or user replaceable cells.

  60. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    That said, I love the output and beam. I would definitely buy a similar light with the same output if it had a second cell or user replaceable cells.
    Yeah, I'd like to buy this light too, with user replacable cells, preferably with the ability to run either 18650 and 21700 cells.

  61. #461
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    Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

    First thing, the hum is fixed. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.

    Second thing, updated the USB door to be a harder silicone instead of the softer TPU. We may continue to make small tweaks to the physical shape, but for now this is a quick fix that lets the door return shut much faster. The TPU was molded in with the overmold to help reduce the costs, but they were able to do a gate shutoff and run several thousand with an 80A silicone for us. So that's being implemented on any new orders.

    Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:

    1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low

    2. Adaptive is the more traditional setting that is found on every bike light and what "high" was before. A ramp down in power that's hard to notice as your eyes adapt to the darkness. We decided to make it a slower ramp that goes to about 1.8 hours before kicking down to low for an extra 30 minutes of runtime. For those that want to set it and forget it, this is your mode. We just aren't going to mess around and try to explain how every manufacture uses "high" and doesn't have an actual solid high output. Going to write out an engineering blog with more charts and comparisons for the future.

    3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.

    4. Modified the daytime flash to get more runtime out of it.

    Here is the runtime chart that is going to be posted on the website, as well as on the updated instruction card. We want customers to know exactly what to expect. As this clearly was a big mistake we made early on.



    One slight difference is that I prefer to show the runtime chart in terms of perceived brightness instead of lumens or lux as those are linear measurements, and we perceived light in an exponential way.

    Here is a chart of the Hangover solid High, and Adaptive mode as compared to a lot of other lights in terms of output vs time. Everything normalized to be just 100% to 0% output, doesn't matter the lumens/lux/etc. Just to show the shaping of the runtime chart. We'll be putting together some webpages comparing the beam pattern, peak lux, perceived output vs time, and a few other comparisons for the major brands that one might cross-shop, but for now, here's a quick chart.



    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

    We'll be taking the old Hangovers, updating them and putting it into our demo fleet for future customers to try out when we start trying to travel to more events.

    We are all signed up for the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and will have demo lights on hand, along with a shiny new tent. Both myself and Tom "Danger" Place will be there all weekend hanging out and talking lighting. Hopefully, we'll see some of you there!

    I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----hangover-2020-runtime.jpg  

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----outputvstime.jpg  

    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  62. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

    First thing, the hum is fixed. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.

    Second thing, updated the USB door to be a harder silicone instead of the softer TPU. We may continue to make small tweaks to the physical shape, but for now this is a quick fix that lets the door return shut much faster. The TPU was molded in with the overmold to help reduce the costs, but they were able to do a gate shutoff and run several thousand with an 80A silicone for us. So that's being implemented on any new orders.

    Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:

    1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low

    2. Adaptive is the more traditional setting that is found on every bike light and what "high" was before. A ramp down in power that's hard to notice as your eyes adapt to the darkness. We decided to make it a slower ramp that goes to about 1.8 hours before kicking down to low for an extra 30 minutes of runtime. For those that want to set it and forget it, this is your mode. We just aren't going to mess around and try to explain how every manufacture uses "high" and doesn't have an actual solid high output. Going to write out an engineering blog with more charts and comparisons for the future.

    3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.

    4. Modified the daytime flash to get more runtime out of it.

    Here is the runtime chart that is going to be posted on the website, as well as on the updated instruction card. We want customers to know exactly what to expect. As this clearly was a big mistake we made early on.



    One slight difference is that I prefer to show the runtime chart in terms of perceived brightness instead of lumens or lux as those are linear measurements, and we perceived light in an exponential way.

    Here is a chart of the Hangover solid High, and Adaptive mode as compared to a lot of other lights in terms of output vs time. Everything normalized to be just 100% to 0% output, doesn't matter the lumens/lux/etc. Just to show the shaping of the runtime chart. We'll be putting together some webpages comparing the beam pattern, peak lux, perceived output vs time, and a few other comparisons for the major brands that one might cross-shop, but for now, here's a quick chart.



    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

    We'll be taking the old Hangovers, updating them and putting it into our demo fleet for future customers to try out when we start trying to travel to more events.

    We are all signed up for the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and will have demo lights on hand, along with a shiny new tent. Both myself and Tom "Danger" Place will be there all weekend hanging out and talking lighting. Hopefully, we'll see some of you there!

    I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.
    Awesome! Done and thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  63. #463
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    Thanks for the update.

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Awesome! Done and thanks!
    Please don't quote a whole lengthy post (you can even edit the old one), just take the few lines from the original post that you refer to... that makes it easier for others to follow the thread! Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    [....]Because of that, we've updated our software.[...]
    Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:
    1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low
    [....]
    3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.
    [...]
    Matt, how about finally implementing a software update for the focal series, which allows the same performance as described in "3." for the Hangover? Or at least please add a mode, that allows to switch off that battery saving mode... That is a bit overdue, even if there were not so many harsh complains

    You should also post that runtime graph on the product page, since you know changed the product description.

  65. #465
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    Can the people who don't care for the upgraded USB cover install the software themselves?
    As someone from Europe, it will be quite costly to send the light back and forward just for a software update and unnecessary USB cover upgrade.

  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zayphod View Post
    As someone from Europe, it will be quite costly to send the light back and forward just for a software update and unnecessary USB cover upgrade.
    it seems that shipping is without cost for US customers:
    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange".
    [....] There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one.
    So the question is whether that offer applies for overseas shipping aswell...

  67. #467
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    Awesome news Matt on the fix for the hum and the battery door.

    Does the new software mean that if i start my ride in high and happen to go longer than an hour then it drops to low that I canít then go to medium? Once it drops to low is that all I will have left to make it out of the woods etc? I want to be sure I understand the nodes before sending in the light.

    Other question is can we send in the light((s) to exchange for one that has the fix for the hum and the battery door but leave the current software the way it is?

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Awesome news Matt on the fix for the hum and the battery door.

    Does the new software mean that if i start my ride in high and happen to go longer than an hour then it drops to low that I canít then go to medium? Once it drops to low is that all I will have left to make it out of the woods etc? I want to be sure I understand the nodes before sending in the light.

    Other question is can we send in the light((s) to exchange for one that has the fix for the hum and the battery door but leave the current software the way it is?
    The "Adaptive mode" on the new software is the old high, but without the harsh stepdowns that everyone interpreted as the "end of high" instead of noticing that it was still more output at a longer runtime than anything else in the class. But yes, if you defaulted to High at the start of a ride instead of adaptive, then you'd run out in a little over an hour and then drop to low to get you out of the woods.

    By default when it turns on, it will go to Adaptive as that is what most people will use, and it will have the typical steady ramp that's hardly noticeable by our eyes. We just had enough complaints about not being able to override, or not having a true steady-high that we just decided to make it as solid as possible. This helps with those that do downhill stuff and want to just run on low or medium on a climb up, but then have a true solid high that doesn't diminish on their 20 minute downhill run.

    On the flip side, Adaptive is for those that just jump on their bike and start pedalling with no real hard climbs or anything, and just want almost 2 hours of runtime that's not interupted by any hard jumps in power or anything.

    Medium is also just a steady constant that pushes to almost 3 hours.

    Of course these all are just approximate and did a lot of testing this time around and data collection, as well as a lot of tweaking. That's why it took almost a month. Runtime may vary based on temperature, battery age, etc. But this is averaged runtime. Some people might get more.

    Can't have the hum fix without the new software.

    Also can't update the software on your own, has to come to the shop and the board put on our programming stand.

    International customers don't have to worry, I'll eat the cost of shipping and the return, just like domestic. This isn't going to be cheap for me to fix, but I know our reputation lies in how well our products perform, and it's clear now this did not ship meeting customer expectations so I'm working to make it right before I can ramp up advertising and work with bike shops. I want to make sure everything is corrected and everyone is happy.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Please don't quote a whole lengthy post (you can even edit the old one), just take the few lines from the original post that you refer to... that makes it easier for others to follow the thread! Thanks!
    .
    Umm, I was referring to the entire post. Thanks for monitoring the internet though.


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  70. #470
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    How do I find my order number?

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

    First thing, the hum is fixed. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.

    Second thing, updated the USB door to be a harder silicone instead of the softer TPU. We may continue to make small tweaks to the physical shape, but for now this is a quick fix that lets the door return shut much faster. The TPU was molded in with the overmold to help reduce the costs, but they were able to do a gate shutoff and run several thousand with an 80A silicone for us. So that's being implemented on any new orders.

    Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:

    1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low

    2. Adaptive is the more traditional setting that is found on every bike light and what "high" was before. A ramp down in power that's hard to notice as your eyes adapt to the darkness. We decided to make it a slower ramp that goes to about 1.8 hours before kicking down to low for an extra 30 minutes of runtime. For those that want to set it and forget it, this is your mode. We just aren't going to mess around and try to explain how every manufacture uses "high" and doesn't have an actual solid high output. Going to write out an engineering blog with more charts and comparisons for the future.

    3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.

    4. Modified the daytime flash to get more runtime out of it.

    Here is the runtime chart that is going to be posted on the website, as well as on the updated instruction card. We want customers to know exactly what to expect. As this clearly was a big mistake we made early on.



    One slight difference is that I prefer to show the runtime chart in terms of perceived brightness instead of lumens or lux as those are linear measurements, and we perceived light in an exponential way.

    Here is a chart of the Hangover solid High, and Adaptive mode as compared to a lot of other lights in terms of output vs time. Everything normalized to be just 100% to 0% output, doesn't matter the lumens/lux/etc. Just to show the shaping of the runtime chart. We'll be putting together some webpages comparing the beam pattern, peak lux, perceived output vs time, and a few other comparisons for the major brands that one might cross-shop, but for now, here's a quick chart.



    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

    We'll be taking the old Hangovers, updating them and putting it into our demo fleet for future customers to try out when we start trying to travel to more events.

    We are all signed up for the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and will have demo lights on hand, along with a shiny new tent. Both myself and Tom "Danger" Place will be there all weekend hanging out and talking lighting. Hopefully, we'll see some of you there!

    I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.
    PERFECT! Exactly what I'm looking for. Don't care about the hum or the cover. Just the run time for me. I like the option of running a second battery on the helmet and having max power for the entire ride. Or, run it on Medium for the majority of the ride and then crank it to Hi for the quick downhill blasts. I also use this light for splitboarding at night. Our DH runs take about 15 minutes, so the ability to run full blast for a couple of runs is da bomb. It will be interesting to see if the new adaptive mode is enough. The current ramp down does feel a little wonky when running a bar light that ramps down w/o steps. The last few night rides I couldn't get it to were I wanted it to be and end up relying on my bar light too much.

    A couple of questions:
    - When running in adaptive mode is it better to leave the light on during stops or is it better to shut it off and on? Last night I shut it off and on a bunch and I ran out of light completely before 2 hours. I'm assuming when powering the light back on it re-starts the ramp down causing it to use more power.
    - If I run the light down to almost nothing and then I plug an external battery pack in what should I expect with the new software? I ask this because that's exactly what I did last night and I found the light would boot up in Hi and then ramp to Lo quickly and then power off. I let it sit/charge for about 5 minutes and then I could only get it to boot up in Lo.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  72. #472
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    just sent you an email. thanks for updating the light!
    2020 yeti sb165 t2

  73. #473
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    Thanks for the feedback Matt. One additional question. The updated software will still be able to take advantage of usb-c external battery pack if needed to extend the runtimes in any of the specified modes, correct?

  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Last night I shut it off and on a bunch and I ran out of light completely before 2 hours. I'm assuming when powering the light back on it re-starts the ramp down causing it to use more power.
    -
    That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
    Mole

  75. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
    Mole
    Ah, this may explain why I had a really short runtime last week. I was switching off (and running just a bar light) and then back on, thinking it would extend my runtime, but didn't understand what was going on in detail.

    Thanks!
    baker

  76. #476
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    Sounds like "adaptive" is for those that turn the light on and leave it on. I don't know anyone that rides that way. I constantly cut my lights off and back on.

    -Garry

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
    Mole
    Thanks Mole, do you think this also applies to exiting adaptive mode for another, say low (at stops or climbs), and then re-entering adaptive mode, all without turning the light off?

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by icycle View Post
    Thanks Mole, do you think this also applies to exiting adaptive mode for another, say low (at stops or climbs), and then re-entering adaptive mode, all without turning the light off?
    I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
    Mole

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Sounds like "adaptive" is for those that turn the light on and leave it on. I don't know anyone that rides that way. I constantly cut my lights off and back on.

    -Garry
    Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?

    Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.

  80. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?

    Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.
    Top of a climb, mothering up, brief hang before final descent- plenty of reasons.

  81. #481
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    Being out of shape and needing to rest is most of the reason! I usually cut my helmet light off and leave my bar light on low (bar light is on a nice large pack that'll last way longer than any ride I'll do).

    -Garry

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?

    Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.
    If Iím climbing, I use as little light as possible. Which could mean no lights, one light, or both lights.


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  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
    Mole
    Mole, out of curiosity, why have you decided to not swap for the new software/no hum/better charging port cover?

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
    Mole
    Mole, a bit OT, but does the Focal Series show the same behaviour in the adaptve mode (i.e. if you switch from adaptive to a different mode and then back to adapative, is the light then as bright in adaptive as before or does it start at the beginning of the ramp)? did you ever check this with your luxmeter?

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Mole, a bit OT, but does the Focal Series show the same behaviour in the adaptve mode (i.e. if you switch from adaptive to a different mode and then back to adapative, is the light then as bright in adaptive as before or does it start at the beginning of the ramp)? did you ever check this with your luxmeter?
    I've not checked this on the focal series lights, only measured time to step-down in high, not adaptive since adaptive is supposed to ramp down gradually to conserve battery energy. I actually don't recall ever using the adaptive mode which is one of the reasons I'm not interested in the Hangover program upgrade. To be clear, the Hangover's ramp down characteristic is unaffected by switching modes and requires turning the light off and on again to restart the ramping at start up output levels. Also all this testing was done using my light-meter.
    Mole

  86. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    If Iím climbing, I use as little light as possible. Which could mean no lights, one light, or both lights.
    Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.
    baker

  87. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.
    I get it, I get it.... I should have used an emoji in my original response to garrybunk. It was supposed to be a tongue in cheek response to someone who couldn't seem to understand how others don't ride the same way they do.

    All we have here is twisty gently rolling terrain so we very rarely stop during a ride and want our lights on high full-time for as long as they'll run.

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.
    Now that days are getting longer a nice 100g light would be perfect for that last hour or so.... DST starts Mar8.

    Can't wait for V2.

  89. #489
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    @Matt, I know you are head down busy but I would like to get some answers before requesting that my 2 lights be ďupgradedĒ to fix the hum, charging door, lighting modes etc.

    1) will plugin in an external battery pack still work with the new modes and give longer runtimes in each mode including the adaptive mode? I donít see why it wonít but just want to be sure and set my expectations accordingly.

    2) do you have any charts showcasing how runtime and output is changed when plugging in external batteries?

    3) I have 2 lights. If I chose can I only request one light to be replaced instead of both?

    Thanks

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

    First thing, the hum is fixed. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.

    Second thing, updated the USB door to be a harder silicone instead of the softer TPU. We may continue to make small tweaks to the physical shape, but for now this is a quick fix that lets the door return shut much faster. The TPU was molded in with the overmold to help reduce the costs, but they were able to do a gate shutoff and run several thousand with an 80A silicone for us. So that's being implemented on any new orders.

    Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:

    1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low

    2. Adaptive is the more traditional setting that is found on every bike light and what "high" was before. A ramp down in power that's hard to notice as your eyes adapt to the darkness. We decided to make it a slower ramp that goes to about 1.8 hours before kicking down to low for an extra 30 minutes of runtime. For those that want to set it and forget it, this is your mode. We just aren't going to mess around and try to explain how every manufacture uses "high" and doesn't have an actual solid high output. Going to write out an engineering blog with more charts and comparisons for the future.

    3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.

    4. Modified the daytime flash to get more runtime out of it.

    Here is the runtime chart that is going to be posted on the website, as well as on the updated instruction card. We want customers to know exactly what to expect. As this clearly was a big mistake we made early on.



    One slight difference is that I prefer to show the runtime chart in terms of perceived brightness instead of lumens or lux as those are linear measurements, and we perceived light in an exponential way.

    Here is a chart of the Hangover solid High, and Adaptive mode as compared to a lot of other lights in terms of output vs time. Everything normalized to be just 100% to 0% output, doesn't matter the lumens/lux/etc. Just to show the shaping of the runtime chart. We'll be putting together some webpages comparing the beam pattern, peak lux, perceived output vs time, and a few other comparisons for the major brands that one might cross-shop, but for now, here's a quick chart.



    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

    We'll be taking the old Hangovers, updating them and putting it into our demo fleet for future customers to try out when we start trying to travel to more events.

    We are all signed up for the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and will have demo lights on hand, along with a shiny new tent. Both myself and Tom "Danger" Place will be there all weekend hanging out and talking lighting. Hopefully, we'll see some of you there!

    I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.
    Thanks Matt! It is support like this that separates great companies from everyone else. You have earned my loyalty as a customer for as long as you are making lights!


    Oh, and I left the entire quote for the enjoyment of the internet police!

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    @Matt, I know you are head down busy but I would like to get some answers before requesting that my 2 lights be ďupgradedĒ to fix the hum, charging door, lighting modes etc.

    1) will plugin in an external battery pack still work with the new modes and give longer runtimes in each mode including the adaptive mode? I donít see why it wonít but just want to be sure and set my expectations accordingly.

    2) do you have any charts showcasing how runtime and output is changed when plugging in external batteries?

    3) I have 2 lights. If I chose can I only request one light to be replaced instead of both?

    Thanks
    1. Plugin battery still works. We updated the instructions to mention specifically what kind of battery packs work best to keep up with the drain on high. Saying works with "ANY" battery pack definitely opened up a pandoras box given the range of battery pack quality. Basically any pack that can output at least 2.4A is good to go.

    2. Part of the instruction manual suggests that if you plan to use a battery pack, use it from the start of the ride. Because what's happening is that the battery pack is charging the internal battery while in use. So if you run the light out completely and plug in the battery pack, it's starting to charge the internal battery but the light is still trying to draw power. So won't be able to use it in a higher mode. But if you leave it plugged in from the start, the 2.4A battery pack will keep up enough to keep the internal battery topped off for as long as it lasts.

    3. Yep, no problem.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  92. #492
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    I have gotten everyone's emails and inputted in the ordering system.

    Have all the lights built and stuff, but have been waiting on some boxes to arrive. Instead of shipping in the pouches trying to use small boxes to make the return process easier.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I have gotten everyone's emails and inputted in the ordering system.

    Have all the lights built and stuff, but have been waiting on some boxes to arrive. Instead of shipping in the pouches trying to use small boxes to make the return process easier.

    Hey Matt

    Iíve been unable to figure out my order number. How can I get an exchange started?

  94. #494
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    Hacking a dim mode

    Matt - Any chance you could share the details set up for reprogramming the light? Maybe you want to keep that information proprietary, but I would love to try hacking it in order to have a super dim mode for using around camp at the end of the day.

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Hey Matt

    Iíve been unable to figure out my order number. How can I get an exchange started?
    Find your emails from Outbound Lighting with subject ďYour order has been deliveredĒ. That is how I was able to track mine down.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Find your emails from Outbound Lighting with subject ďYour order has been deliveredĒ. That is how I was able to track mine down.
    I deleted my emails after it was delivered.

  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.
    Sounds familiar. Itís not unusual to climb for well over an hour, sometimes longer. Iím usually as dim as possible on the way up, and as bright as possible on the way down. I just use my trail edition on low/medium on climbs, and add the hangover on the DH. Itís not a big deal, and I love the combo.


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  98. #498
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    Finally had a chance to test the hangover, as someone lend me his.
    A word of warning with respect to my test experience: I am NOT a hardcore mtb guy, i do have a cyclocross/gravel bike which i do use to ride on easy trails. This test was done in the woods, dead flat, small trails and big pathways. For comparison a Lupine Blika was used (in a roughly equivalent power setting to the hangover).
    On runtimes and the humming everything has been said (i didn't notice the humming when riding).

    I do like the beam pattern very much. It has a small, nice hotspot and an the transitions to the darker part of the beam pattern is very smooth. This makes it easy to the eyes to see a lot on th side as well. I also like that it doesn't throw so much light in the "tree tops" (when looking straight ahead), where i personally don't need the light.
    Much better beam pattern than the Lupine Blika, which has a pretty sharp transition from it's bright 22į hotspot. The Blika also illuminates beyond the hotspot, however, the sharp decrease in brightness makes it much harder to see things there. Furthermore the Blika throws a lot more light in the the "tree tops"

    As expected from Outbound, that beam pattern is excellently designed.
    Suggestions: Release a super lightweight light head only version for use with a small 2cell external battery pack, which can be strapped on the helmet.

  99. #499
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    Just got my Hangover 2.0 lights today. Charged them up and did a short night ride to test the new settings. Hum is gone completely. Charger gasket falls back into place. Nice, if you like that sort of thing My ride was short, so I didn't really get a feel for adaptive mode. I stuck to analyzing things based on the new Performance Charts. I'm assuming that I'll get close to the to the listed times in my future tests.

    Running the Hangover on Helmet and Hangover on bars is a great combo and the new settings give you some flexibility. I played around with angles and settled with the helmet light aiming further down the trail than the bar light. The bar light aimed too close to the ground creates a bright spot and makes the helmet light seem dim. Once I figured out the angles I tried the different modes. Running the bar light on high felt too high. Running them both on medium was actually pretty solid and could be the go-to if you think you might have a longer ride. Running the helmet on adaptive and the bar on medium provides an excellent amount of light and will be my normal go-to. Plenty of light and if the ride goes too long my bar light will be my escape plan. Hi mode is also a great option as it produces max light. The brightness would definitely would work for me as my only light. I'll most likely do that for the shorter rides. Running the helmet on medium as the only light works decent, but I did find myself wanting more light. Adaptive mode as the only light would be interesting to try. So far I'm very impressed with the changes. I hope to get more in the next couple of weeks.

    On a side note, I'm loving the flexibility of having go-pro as the mounting option. I picked up a headband mount that I used for night XC and BC splitting this weekend. It worked heads and tails better than the cheap-o battery lights and was great having max light for the downhills.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Just got my Hangover 2.0 lights today. Charged them up and did a short night ride to test the new settings. Hum is gone completely. Charger gasket falls back into place. Nice, if you like that sort of thing My ride was short, so I didn't really get a feel for adaptive mode. I stuck to analyzing things based on the new Performance Charts. I'm assuming that I'll get close to the to the listed times in my future tests.
    .
    .
    .

    ...
    Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?

    I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?

    Iím looking forward to the replacement lights.

  101. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?

    I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?

    Iím looking forward to the replacement lights.
    I got an email notifying me of the shipment.

  102. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?

    I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?

    Iím looking forward to the replacement lights.
    I received mine today. I got a shipping notification a couple days ago. The box included a new instruction bifold and a USB charging cable. I left the cable in the box going back to Outbound- I'm fine with the original ones. I did take the new instruction manual.

    There was no return shipping label in the box.

  103. #503
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    For international customers, I am kind of SOL. I can't do return labels on international which really sucks. So if you would be able to send it back and just let me know how much the postage was I can paypal the difference.

    For everyone else, I'm going to try and get as many exchanges out as I can, but it may be delayed a bit longer. My next shipment of batteries was supposed to go out weeks ago, but due to the coronavirus thing all global shipping is in total disarray. I have a huge event at the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo that I need to have some lights on hand for, or else I'm also SOL since it'll end up being a money-losing thing if I show up with just a tent and no lights. Ha.

    Combine that with February and March being the slowest months for light sales, I'm feeling a bit stressed with how tight inventory has gotten and trying to balance serving previous customers while keeping enough revenue going to keep reinvesting. Really appreciate the patience!

    If anyone will be at the 24HOP I'll have some updated Hangovers on hand if you want to your exchange there.
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  104. #504
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    Iím in Montana- it only feels foreign.

    No worries- Iíll send it back on my own dime. I appreciate your time on this.

  105. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
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    Here's the options I currently have. Ravepower 5000mAh (cylindrical one/130g), Ravepower 10000mAh (flat one, 175g), and the 2 cell pack I normally use with my lightheads + the Magicshine usb converter (120g total). The runtime test I did a few posts back that extended the high modes total time to 2.6 hrs. was done with the 5000mAh bank. I didn't use the higher capacity powerbank because I thought it might be a bit too heavy. I've not tried the 2 cell + converter yet and am hoping it works well but will have to test and I'll post the results I get.
    Mole
    External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
    Mole

  106. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
    Mole
    Sweet! For some reason, I thought it would be less efficient to use the MagicShine dongle and that it would hurt runtime. 3.5 hours out of that pack is excellent. Given that I have loads of MS compatible packs (including 2-6 cells), this will be a great option for extending the runtime of my Hangover.
    baker

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    I thought I would follow up here: I received the replacement Hangover, as well; it no longer has any noise during operation, and I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run. My complaints re: the light are handily dealt with.

    I did want to add, that though it is for a different light, I had an issue with my Focal--the gopro spline broke. Despite my attempting to pay for it, Matt sent me a new mount (with spare as a backup) for free. Can't complain too much about that.

  108. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run..

    ??? Are you saying you can boost it from interactive mode or high mode (and how do you accomplish this)? Also what do you think of the light output compared to the V1 Hangover? My old eyes like the V1 Hangover in its first 10 minutes of operation a lot better than the 600ish lumen level it spends most of its high mode time in. Since all the recent charts are in output percentages and not actual figures I assumed they must have lowered the overall a little to get a flat output for similar runtimes.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    ... I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run. My complaints re: the light are handily dealt with.

    I did want to add, that though ...
    You canít put that little nugget out there and not give more details. Come on man. Lol. Haha. I too am interested in knowing what you really mean and how it was accomplished with the replacement hangover.

  110. #510
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    I'm not sure what y'all mean? My limited use of the light suggests that you can now use high mode regardless of the battery level? I can go run it down and stare at it, if you need me to.

    @Mole if the light levels were lowered, I didn't notice.

    *edit* for clarification: I'm not using "boost" in the sense that other light manufacturers seem to be using it (temporary very-high-mode) but in the operational case of THIS light. The old firmware, once the battery was below a certain point, it cut the mode out of the UI (ie: after riding for 1 hour on medium, I could no longer access high). This one either doesn't, or it does it so far into the runtime that it is just as well.

  111. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    I'm not sure what y'all mean? My limited use of the light suggests that you can now use high mode regardless of the battery level? I can go run it down and stare at it, if you need me to.

    @Mole if the light levels were lowered, I didn't notice.

    *edit* for clarification: I'm not using "boost" in the sense that other light manufacturers seem to be using it (temporary very-high-mode) but in the operational case of THIS light. The old firmware, once the battery was below a certain point, it cut the mode out of the UI (ie: after riding for 1 hour on medium, I could no longer access high). This one either doesn't, or it does it so far into the runtime that it is just as well.
    Thanks! Ability to access high (whatever that actually is) is an excellent improvement, especially for those who are using a outside power source. Suspected output difference would probably be difficult to notice unless you had the lights side by side or measured them with a meter.
    Mole

  112. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Thanks! Ability to access high (whatever that actually is) is an excellent improvement, especially for those who are using a outside power source. Suspected output difference would probably be difficult to notice unless you had the lights side by side or measured them with a meter.
    Mole
    I will see if I can tell the difference to the eye when my 2x replacements show up. I suspect I am in @Mattís backlog of replacements to send out. I sent in my email in to Matt on the Feb 6th.

  113. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    I will see if I can tell the difference to the eye when my 2x replacements show up. I suspect I am in @Mattís backlog of replacements to send out. I sent in my email in to Matt on the Feb 6th.
    Thanks! Missed an opportunity to meet Matt at the race this weekend since it's only about 150 mi. from where I live but still feeling a bit poorly from a surgery I had a little over a week ago. Could have checked the changes out myself but unfortunately didn't work out this time.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Also what do you think of the light output compared to the V1 Hangover? My old eyes like the V1 Hangover in its first 10 minutes of operation a lot better than the 600ish lumen level it spends most of its high mode time in. Since all the recent charts are in output percentages and not actual figures I assumed they must have lowered the overall a little to get a flat output for similar runtimes.
    Mole
    I interpret those new graphs (from Post 461) and the old graph (from Post 263) in such away that the actual maximum output has not been changed:

    The new "adaptive" mode shows the same dimming behavior in the first 15 min as the old "high" mode (compare last figure of post 461 with the one from 263 or your own runtime experiments), but then after the inital dimming it doesn't remain constant for a 45 mins as in V1, but gradually decreases until it drops to low roughly at the same time as "high mode V1" does. So the same runtime numbers make sense.
    The "high mode V2" doesn't have any dimming and stays at the max brightness (where adaptive mode starts as well), so maybe you should think about a software upgrade

  115. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    I interpret those new graphs (from Post 461) and the old graph (from Post 263) in such away that the actual maximum output has not been changed:

    The new "adaptive" mode shows the same dimming behavior in the first 15 min as the old "high" mode (compare last figure of post 461 with the one from 263 or your own runtime experiments), but then after the inital dimming it doesn't remain constant for a 45 mins as in V1, but gradually decreases until it drops to low roughly at the same time as "high mode V1" does. So the same runtime numbers make sense.
    The "high mode V2" doesn't have any dimming and stays at the max brightness (where adaptive mode starts as well), so maybe you should think about a software upgrade
    If all that works out it will be great. I still can't make sense of all the charts information without a reduction in the maximum output or a increase in battery capacity. The bike shop manager I lent my extra Hangover to used it in the race Matt was at and signed his shop up to be a dealer so I should eventually have access to a V2 model to test. Till then we'll just see what others on this thread think of the upgrade. It will probably be better for some but not for all.
    Mole

  116. #516
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    Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.

    Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.

    Definitely going to build up our demo tent a bit more and try to do more events in the future.

    As for the current Hangover exchanges. We will have to temporarily move towards the model where you'll have to send in the light, and hopefully within 2-3 days have it back to you after it's arrived. We are completely out of the batteries and it's going to be another 3-4 weeks until more arrive. So either just need to wait until the batteries arrive to have a no-downtime exchange, or be willing to send in the light and wait a bit.
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  117. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.

    Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.

    Definitely going to build up our demo tent a bit more and try to do more events in the future.

    As for the current Hangover exchanges. We will have to temporarily move towards the model where you'll have to send in the light, and hopefully within 2-3 days have it back to you after it's arrived. We are completely out of the batteries and it's going to be another 3-4 weeks until more arrive. So either just need to wait until the batteries arrive to have a no-downtime exchange, or be willing to send in the light and wait a bit.
    I have no problems waiting until batteries show up to minimize downtime. I assume I am already in the queue for replacement so waiting is cool.

    Glad to see that the Hangover was a success at the 24HOP. Keep it up.

  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.
    Thanks for clarifying, happy to be wrong about this. If output in high is the same for V1 & V2 definitely interested in the upgrade!


    Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend.
    Glad to hear you and Eric (Graymatter) worked out a deal so he can carry your lights in his shop. He used one of my Hangover's in the race and seemed totally impressed with it's performance. Wish things had worked out where I could have come to the race and said Hi in person but maybe next year.
    Mole

  119. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
    Mole

    Mole, how water-resistant is the USB-C plug?
    Wondering if this would work for full overnight / multi night adventure racing with external packs?
    It would probably be running on medium most of the time.

  120. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    Mole, how water-resistant is the USB-C plug?
    Wondering if this would work for full overnight / multi night adventure racing with external packs?
    It would probably be running on medium most of the time.
    I can't remember the last time I rode in the rain and am pretty new to outdoor usb usage so unfortunately don't have an answer for you.
    Mole

  121. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    Wondering if this would work for full overnight / multi night adventure racing with external packs?
    It would probably be running on medium most of the time.
    I wouldn't recommend it, at least not out of the box.

    My experience with external battery packs on the Hangover is 1) it does not draw enough current from some external battery packs to not rely on the internal battery; 2) if you hot-swap between external battery packs (i.e. the Hangover is running while you disconnect one battery pack and plug in another), the Hangover might reduce the current draw to <500mA (USB default), which will drain the internal battery even faster; and 3) if the internal battery dies -regardless of how much charge is left in your external pack- the Hangover will not step-down the light mode, it will simply shut off...if the lamp is bar-mounted, you will see the LED indicators give you the warning that your lamp is about to shut off; if the Hangover is mounted on your helmet, you will have no warning, it will just shut off.


    To address this, I've removed the internal battery and modified the Hangover for a cable; I've also modified my USB powerbanks for a direct lead to the internal battery, so I bypass the boost-regulator of the powerbank and the USB-C circuit of the Hangover altogether (which should reduce losses in efficiency, and not limit run-time by whatever voltage/current cut-off is built into the powerbank). I've also removed 2 of the 6 LED dies from the Hangover to reduce the current draw and extend the run-time.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----kimg0893.jpg
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----kimg0894.jpg
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----kimg0895.jpg
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----kimg0901.jpg
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----kimg0903.jpg

    YMMV. I purchased the Hangover knowing I'd be using it way outside of its designed purpose.

  122. #522
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    Nice. Couldnít you have just used 3.7v battery packs with water resistant connectors rather than modding USB charger battery packs? Asking as I have a ton of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    I wouldn't recommend it, at least not out of the box.

    My experience with external battery packs on the Hangover is 1) it does not draw enough current from some external battery packs to not rely on the internal battery; 2) if you hot-swap between external battery packs (i.e. the Hangover is running while you disconnect one battery pack and plug in another), the Hangover might reduce the current draw to <500mA (USB default), which will drain the internal battery even faster; and 3) if the internal battery dies -regardless of how much charge is left in your external pack- the Hangover will not step-down the light mode, it will simply shut off...if the lamp is bar-mounted, you will see the LED indicators give you the warning that your lamp is about to shut off; if the Hangover is mounted on your helmet, you will have no warning, it will just shut off.


    To address this, I've removed the internal battery and modified the Hangover for a cable; I've also modified my USB powerbanks for a direct lead to the internal battery, so I bypass the boost-regulator of the powerbank and the USB-C circuit of the Hangover altogether (which should reduce losses in efficiency, and not limit run-time by whatever voltage/current cut-off is built into the powerbank). I've also removed 2 of the 6 LED dies from the Hangover to reduce the current draw and extend the run-time.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    YMMV. I purchased the Hangover knowing I'd be using it way outside of its designed purpose.

  123. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    Nice. Couldnít you have just used 3.7v battery packs with water resistant connectors rather than modding USB charger battery packs? Asking as I have a ton of those.
    Absolutely. However, I didn't have any 3.7v packs when I started this "project".
    I acquired the powerbanks with the intent to use USB until I discovered the peculiar behavior described above (i.e. it's what I had to work with moving forward). The Anker 5000mAh packs I modified are very inexpensive, come with their own USB charger, and can power other devices through their USB output. And, my plan is to charge each pack from my dynamo charging circuit, and reduce total powerbanks carried to just two of those Anker packs (but I've had issues with my dynamo charger during my last two races to work this out...I'm hoping the third time's the charm).

    The tried and true solution for multi-night lighting is still a dedicated dynamo-powered set-up, like KLite or Sinewave Beacon. In a side-by-side comparison of a KLite Bikepacker Ultra (MTB version) and my 4-LED bodged Hangover while rolling at 13-15mph, the Hangover had the brighter beam on high and seemed comparable on medium largely because the beam pattern is that much better...so, that's my incentive to work this problem out.

  124. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    The Anker 5000mAh packs I modified are very inexpensive, come with their own USB charger, and can power other devices through their USB output.
    Are they really 5000mAh? Is that a 21700 Battery?

  125. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Are they really 5000mAh? Is that a 21700 Battery?
    Maybe and yes. The modified Hangover (4 LEDs) pulls around 750mA from the battery on medium and my run-time on a single battery exceeds 6 hours (I haven't yet run one down until the lamp steps down to low, or shuts off). So, its close enough (for now...unknown cell quality and longevity is a concern).

  126. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    Maybe and yes. The modified Hangover (4 LEDs) pulls around 750mA from the battery on medium and my run-time on a single battery exceeds 6 hours (I haven't yet run one down until the lamp steps down to low, or shuts off). So, its close enough (for now...unknown cell quality and longevity is a concern).
    from FMA Battery: https://tinyurl.com/ugjbfkv

  127. #527
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    @VegasSingleSpeed...

    Nice mod! If I used a Hangover, I'd likely do similar. IMO, it is no biggie to drop a battery into a jersey or jacket pocket. Much better than adding extra weight to the helmet or stopping to swap batteries or other fooling around.

    I will say that trying to carry a battery in a hydration pack is a PITA though. Tried that a couple times before deciding it's not working for me. 99% of the time I put the battery in a jersey pocket as I almost never change that. Jacket may come off or go back on during a ride, but not the jersey.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  128. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    99% of the time I put the battery in a jersey pocket as I almost never change that. Jacket may come off or go back on during a ride, but not the jersey.
    Yes, Jersey is handier, I use the "flat pack" for jersey pockets, https://tinyurl.com/tsdkdv8

  129. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Yes, Jersey is handier, I use the "flat pack" for jersey pockets,
    Yep, I use a flat 4 cell holder than can run with 1 to 4 cells. Fits nicely in a jersey pocket. The more typical "box" 4 cell pack would not be as good.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    Ok, i now see two different voltages and mah being referenced in here to use with the hangover. can anyone shed a little light as to which is better and why? The external 2 cell packs that are 3.7v and 6800mah or the 7.4v 3400mah?

    Thx

  131. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Ok, i now see two different voltages and mah being referenced in here to use with the hangover. can anyone shed a little light as to which is better and why? The external 2 cell packs that are 3.7v and 6800mah or the 7.4v 3400mah?

    Thx
    You might want to clarify the context in which you plan to use your Hangover, as some of the information thrown about in the last few posts amidst this thread-derail are not specific to the Hangover at all, and may not necessarily be the answer to your question; i.e. just run a USB powerbank and ignore the rest of this nonsense.

    1) Direct connection of an external battery to the Hangover (as I documented above) should* use a 3.7v pack. At the very least, you'd be able to retain the ability to charge the 3.7v pack through the Hangover via USB. 2) I think MRMOLE was using a 7.4v pack with a USB converter (Magicshine?) to power his Hangover through the USB input. 3) The watt-hrs are the same between those 2 packs.

    *I haven't looked up the spec's of the voltage regulator/boost regulator used in the Hangover. FWIW, in my discussions with another manufacturer regarding using a 7.4v pack instead of USB, they expressed concern with voltages of 7-8+V feeding into their voltage regulator; I don't know if this is also the case for the Hangover, but if you're not capable of figuring this out yourself, then reevaluate what you plan to do and why.

  132. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    1) Direct connection of an external battery to the Hangover (as I documented above) should* use a 3.7v pack. At the very least, you'd be able to retain the ability to charge the 3.7v pack through the Hangover via USB. 2) I think MRMOLE was using a 7.4v pack with a USB converter (Magicshine?) to power his Hangover through the USB input. 3) The watt-hrs are the same between those 2 packs.
    That's my setup (7.4v/3400 mAh w/MS converter). Converter is rated @ 5v/2amp charging rate (common for powerbanks) for use with all Magicshine batteries which are 7.4 volt so should be safe used in this configuration.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.

    Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.

    Definitely going to build up our demo tent a bit more and try to do more events in the future.

    As for the current Hangover exchanges. We will have to temporarily move towards the model where you'll have to send in the light, and hopefully within 2-3 days have it back to you after it's arrived. We are completely out of the batteries and it's going to be another 3-4 weeks until more arrive. So either just need to wait until the batteries arrive to have a no-downtime exchange, or be willing to send in the light and wait a bit.

    Hey, for those who want to send the light in now regardless of downtime, where should we ship it too? Is it alright to ship it in a bubble envelope to keep shipping costs down? Thanks!

  134. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryderjo View Post
    Hey, for those who want to send the light in now regardless of downtime, where should we ship it too? Is it alright to ship it in a bubble envelope to keep shipping costs down? Thanks!
    Send me an email, [email protected] with some of your info, and I can setup a return label for you to have it shipped to Tom to get updated and sent back.

    We are still about 2-3 weeks away from being back to full strength with Hangover supply.
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  135. #535
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    Alrighty, we are back, for as long as COVID doesn't keep us in total lockdown.

    Trying to get back through the log of exchange units, I really appreciate your patience on those!


    In other news. Tom "Danger" Place is officially joining OL as a full-time employee and partner starting soon. He's done an incredible job helping elevate the brand and our quality in the last year, and really excited to bring him on. What this means is that we'll be able to start doing more demos nationwide as we will be putting him on the road in a van hitting up bike shops and trying to get to more events. He'll also be working more closely with our US-based suppliers during production ramp-ups by being on the ground and in the shops with them. I also hope to be more responsive to customer service, better planning, and overall work together to build OL up even more with new products, better inventory, and an increase in our already high quality!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----83737559_2702272319810409_8222850308510842880_o.jpg  

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  136. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Alrighty, we are back, for as long as COVID doesn't keep us in total lockdown.

    Trying to get back through the log of exchange units, I really appreciate your patience on those!


    In other news. Tom "Danger" Place is officially joining OL as a full-time employee and partner starting soon. He's done an incredible job helping elevate the brand and our quality in the last year, and really excited to bring him on. What this means is that we'll be able to start doing more demos nationwide as we will be putting him on the road in a van hitting up bike shops and trying to get to more events. He'll also be working more closely with our US-based suppliers during production ramp-ups by being on the ground and in the shops with them. I also hope to be more responsive to customer service, better planning, and overall work together to build OL up even more with new products, better inventory, and an increase in our already high quality!
    Matt,
    Got my shipping confirmation for the Hangover upgrade today (Thanks!!!). Looking forward to testing the new layout as the described changes should make it a much better light for me. That plus a new bike and warmer/dryer weather should give me some incentive to visit the trails a bit more (hopefully). Cool news about Tom and your new demo plans. Especially nice to hear some good news in these troubled times.
    Mole

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    Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?
    Thanks in advance.


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    I bought this go pro mount so I can use the light during the summer months on my handlebars at the end of our ride.


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  139. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMILES View Post
    Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?
    in Post 461 OL described the changes. Mostly programming/mode changes

  140. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMILES View Post
    Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?
    Thanks in advance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My version 2 Hangover is due to arrive Tuesday (per USPS tracking) so will post what I think. Will run tests on the light for runtimes etc.
    Mole

  141. #541
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    Just a couple simple questions for OB. Judging from the new graph if someone buys a new Hangover and say runs high ( not adaptive high ) for 20-30 minutes and then runs medium the rest of the time; Would one be able to get two hours of run time out of the lamp? What is the new listed output in lumen for high and medium (?)...AND, anyway you can provide beam shots of the new high and medium modes. Lastly, can you get these with NW (4500K ) beam tint emitters?

  142. #542
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    Peculiarity of the new UI, after having used it for a bit:

    "Adaptive" is now a PART of the UI, rather than a turn-it-on-and-it's-there thing. That means that to get to medium from low, you have to page 3 times, rather than the previous 2. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but it's there, nonetheless. Not a deal breaker, in light of the rest of the stuff with the light, but something to be aware of if you are getting a V2.

    I'm otherwise quite happy with the revised version, after having used it for a month-or-so of riding.

  143. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    What is the new listed output in lumen for high and medium (?)
    Those informations are already available, but quite scattered over a few posts from OB/OL (#216, #461, #468, #516). Since OB is not a fan of lumen numbers i combined those information:
    tldr; High 650-700 lm, Medium 290-310 lm

    In detail:
    Interpreting the graphs of Post 461 from OB/OL(runtime graph vs light comparison graph) and combining the information of those, one reads that adaptive "v2" end at the same output level as medium mode, which is ~45% of the (physical) max light output.

    Since the peak output wasn't changed from software v1 to v2 (see Post #516), one can get the max. lumens from Post #216:
    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    [...]Our actual out-the-front lumens [...] will probably measure [in an integrating sphere] something like 650-700 lumens[...]
    So medium mode is around 290-310 lm (MrMole measured 250-300 lm, see post #204)


    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    [...]if one runs high ( not adaptive high ) for 20-30 minutes and then runs medium the rest of the time; Would one be able to get two hours of run time out of the lamp
    extrapolated from graph in Post #461:
    20 min high: drains close to 1/3 of the capacity --> leaves 2/3 (of 2:45 h. max runtime) on med. mode --> combined runtime 2:10 h
    30 min high mode: uses short of 1/2 of the capacity --> combined runtime just a few minutes short of 2 hr (117 min) (before stepdown to low would occur)

  144. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    So medium mode is around 290-310 lm (MrMole measured 250-300 lm, see post #204)
    Just to clarify those where initial readings, when I did my regular setup for runtime testing I was getting 330ish lumens in the med. mode. Here's a repost of a chart I did showing the med. and high modes + how the V1 Hangover performed hooked up to a 5000mAh powerbank in the high mode.

    High + Powerbank = Black
    High = Green
    Med. = Red

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----hangover-hipb-hi-med.jpg


    Personally I'm only concerned in how the V2 performs in the high mode with my 2 cell pack as that is how I will use it 90% of the time.
    Mole

  145. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Those informations are already available, but quite scattered over a few posts from OB/OL (#216, #461, #468, #516). Since OB is not a fan of lumen numbers i combined those information:
    tldr; High 650-700 lm, Medium 290-310 lm....
    Thanks b'ntg Yes, I know some of that information was somewhere in the thread. However it is quite a long thread and thought it easier to just ask the question of OB rather than take a chance of reading through a prolonged thread for maybe an hour and perhaps still not get a accurate answer.

    Yes, I remember that OB was not forthcoming when if came to questions about lumen output. For the record I take issue with that stance. I'm of the opinion if you aren't willing to talk "Lumen" you aren't willing to give the whole skinny on just how usable the lamp is. While "lumen" isn't everything it is one of the major factors that most potential buyers consider when purchasing a bike lamp. That being a fact I would expect a person who has gone through so much effort to create such a carefully crafted design should have no problem discussing the luminous output of each of the available modes. Also with the changes in the newer version I thought maybe the outputs might have also been tweeked.

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    .... In detail:
    Interpreting the graphs of Post 461 from OB/OL(runtime graph vs light comparison graph) and combining the information of those, one reads that adaptive "v2" end at the same output level as medium mode, which is ~45% of the (physical) max light output.

    Since the peak output wasn't changed from software v1 to v2 (see Post #516), one can get the max. lumens from Post #216:

    So medium mode is around 290-310 lm (MrMole measured 250-300 lm, see post #204)

    extrapolated from graph in Post #461:
    20 min high: drains close to 1/3 of the capacity --> leaves 2/3 (of 2:45 h. max runtime) on med. mode --> combined runtime 2:10 h

    30 min high mode: uses short of 1/2 of the capacity --> combined runtime just a few minutes short of 2 hr (117 min) (before stepdown to low would occur)
    If what you are saying is accurate I don't think I would consider buying one of these unless the medium mode was at least 400-450 lumen and the standard high somewhere around 600-700 lumen. A lot would depend on the beam pattern though and how those lumen are used. I have a feeling I wouldn't like the current medium mode if indeed is only 300 lumen. Okay I suppose for climbing a slow climb but otherwise useless in generally flat areas where your speed may climb and thus require more light. If medium mode lets me see fairly well to ~ 100 ft. I'd be okay with it. If not I can't use it except on high and high I expect to let me see to somewhere around 150 ft. ( keep in mind I'm assuming I'd be using a bar lamp as well in combo ( in medium mode most of the time )

  146. #546
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    While everyone's mileage may vary, I'm extremely happy with the new Hangover programming logic and light output, especially mated to the Trail on bars. Lack of light is simply not an issue, not for the fastest, most technical downhills where I live in New England.

    I run Trail in adaptive typically, boost to high when I need it, and run the Hangover on adaptive or medium typically, also boosting to high when needed.

    My biggest challenge is getting the balance of the light on the helmet such that the light doesn't cause the helmet to slip down and rest on my riding glasses. This is more a function of where it's mounted on the helmet and the secure attachment of the helmet to my head. Looking at different helmets to help here.

  147. #547
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    Lumen output is around 800-900 on high, medium about half of that, but since our eyes perceive lighting differently than a linear measurement, it feels more like "70% as bright".

    However, put our light side by side to a 1200 lumen Niterider Lumina and you'll see why we really don't care about talking lumens. We can trick our eyes into thinking things are brighter than they actually are with balanced and engineered lighting, so why not focus on that instead of getting caught up in trying to advertise to people who are shopping on lumens which is exactly who we don't want buying our lights to be honest.

    The goal for us is always going to be doing more with less. It's what we do in the automotive side, and it's what we should focus on in the biking side too.

    Lumen output did not change with the updates. Only the UI and the hum, simply a reflash of the programming which is why we are able to afford doing the exchanges. I'd be losing my ass if we had to scrap all the boards that came back.
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  148. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Lumen output is around 800-900 on high, medium about half of that, but since our eyes perceive lighting differently than a linear measurement, it feels more like "70% as bright".

    However, put our light side by side to a 1200 lumen Niterider Lumina and you'll see why we really don't care about talking lumens. We can trick our eyes into thinking things are brighter than they actually are with balanced and engineered lighting, so why not focus on that instead of getting caught up in trying to advertise to people who are shopping on lumens which is exactly who we don't want buying our lights to be honest.

    The goal for us is always going to be doing more with less. It's what we do in the automotive side, and it's what we should focus on in the biking side too.

    Lumen output did not change with the updates. Only the UI and the hum, simply a reflash of the programming which is why we are able to afford doing the exchanges. I'd be losing my ass if we had to scrap all the boards that came back.
    Well, I won't go on too much into this so lets just say some of the people who have bought the Hangover ( not me ) seem to claim other luminous output that seems to be less than what you are claiming. Not my place to call anyone a liar so I'll not do that unless I actually own the product myself ( which I don't ).

    Anyway, I might be interested in buying one of the Hangovers...perhaps. Of course if the Chinese made torch I ordered a month ago finally shows up and I'm very pleased with the beam pattern and tint ( 4000K ), then probably not. That said if you decide to offer the Hangover with a NW option I might be interested in buying one. (...especially if the torch I ordered never arrives. )

    One last passing comment; Many people are not happy with the Chinese government right now due to their slowness in addressing the outbreak of the C-virus ( within China ) with the rest of the world. ( not to mention a couple other good reasons as well having to do with holding back on medical personal protective equipment and pharmaceuticals related to the global virus pandemic. For good or bad this fact gives sellers and manufactures within the USA a unique opportunity to sell more of their products that are locally manufactured in the USA. I hope this enables you to sell more lamps.

  149. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Well, I won't go on too much into this so lets just say some of the people who have bought the Hangover ( not me ) seem to claim other luminous output that seems to be less than what you are claiming. Not my place to call anyone a liar so I'll not do that unless I actually own the product myself ( which I don't ).
    Yes, just stating that is our lumen output based on voltage, power draw, etc at the chip and what we targeted with our simulations that match our planned output targets. We still have the same peak brightness as the Lumina 1200 (whether someone wants to say they don't put out 1200 or not is up to them) but a wider overall field of lighting that doesn't have a harsh edge.

    So while OTF lumens might be less, or whatever someone is measuring in a homemade sphere or doing to try and back-calculate lumen output, just wanted to reiterate that honestly, we don't worry much about it. Lumens never has been, and never will be part of the marketing strategy or planned design.

    We have access to all the tools to measure lumen output (3 meter wide integrating spheres for example), but more interested in goniophotometer results since that tells us if our beam pattern is hitting the designed targets, and if not what we can do to modify it. Part of Tom coming onboard full time soon is going to be having him doing more testing with a goniophotometer to compare lights and start to try and give prospective customers some beam pattern data to compare different lights, or at least better explain our lighting philosophy.

    -----------

    Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. It's also been quite a challenge recently balancing running the business, getting to the warehouse to build and ship lights, as well as being a stay-at-home-dad to my two year old all of a sudden after the daycares shut down.

    So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone? Ha. But we are still going strong, good cash reserves to make it through this slow period and still on track for some new stuff coming out this fall. No pre-orders this time though!
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  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    ....Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. It's also been quite a challenge recently balancing running the business, getting to the warehouse to build and ship lights, as well as being a stay-at-home-dad to my two year old all of a sudden after the daycares shut down.

    So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone? Ha. But we are still going strong, good cash reserves to make it through this slow period and still on track for some new stuff coming out this fall. No pre-orders this time though!
    Off topic but I thought this worth mentioning. I have a feeling in the future we will be handling virus outbreaks very differently. Saw this article on WebMd about a type of light called "Far UV-C ". Early testing shows promise. If it proves to work well no doubt they won't be able to keep these types of lights on the shelves and likely every hospital and Doctors office will have them built in to their offices along with the normal over-head lights.

  151. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. [snip] So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone?
    Mine shipped yesterday, thanks and stay safe!

  152. #552
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    I received my Hangover & Trail Light today, both high quality and super fast shipping, not to mention Matt answered all of my questions quickly.

    The only thing I am disappointed in so far is the charger port cover on the Hangover WILL NOT STAY CLOSED. Sent him an email, haven't heard back, not sure how it would be fixed anyways but super annoying.
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  153. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    I received my Hangover & Trail Light today, both high quality and super fast shipping, not to mention Matt answered all of my questions quickly.

    The only thing I am disappointed in so far is the charger port cover on the Hangover WILL NOT STAY CLOSED. Sent him an email, haven't heard back, not sure how it would be fixed anyways but super annoying.
    At all? There are several posts, some pages back, about this. The cover eventually reflexes closed, but it takes a while.

  154. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    At all? There are several posts, some pages back, about this. The cover eventually reflexes closed, but it takes a while.
    No, not at all.

    Canít wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    No, not at all.

    Canít wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.
    I'll save you the trouble: There is nothing to figure out.

    The V1 did not close up well. I think Matt had said the improved version changed the flap material to something that would restore a bit better. Maybe you received one that didn't get the newer door.

  156. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    No, not at all.
    Canít wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.
    If you use a (mobile) computer (and not a mobile phone), "CTRL+F" is your friend for searching terms, it takes a few minutes to find the posts.
    as said before, not much too figure out. Outbound stated quite recently again, that the door is only a dust protection, as the USB-C Port itself is waterproof.

  157. #557
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    The Hangover's convenience factor has proved to be much more useful to me than I would have guessed. For longer mainly off-road rides I still prefer something like a GW XS or XP3 since I'd be using a separate battery for whatever was on the helmet. Thing is most of my rides I only use the helmet light for a small portion of the ride and the hour+ runtime in high/no external battery Hangover option works great for that. On my 50mi. cross town excursions I still don't notice the additional weight of the Hangover on my helmet plus it doubles as a backup light (that doesn't take up any pack space and is always immediately available) and I don't have to concern myself with mounting/bar size compatibility considering not all my backup lights work with both 31.8 and 35mm bars. Still think the Hangover works best off-road with the Focal Trail but have had good luck comboing it with the inexpensive ($39) Ravemen LR800 (merlincycles.com) too. Nice floody beam with a good bit more throw than the Flocal Trail + it's tiny. Still requires an external battery for longer rides but has the charge on the fly via usb option.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----006.jpg Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----004.jpg

  158. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    The Hangover's convenience factor has proved to be much more useful to me than I would have guessed. For longer mainly off-road rides I still prefer something like a GW XS or XP3 since I'd be using a separate battery for whatever was on the helmet. Thing is most of my rides I only use the helmet light for a small portion of the ride and the hour+ runtime in high/no external battery Hangover option works great for that. On my 50mi. cross town excursions I still don't notice the additional weight of the Hangover on my helmet plus it doubles as a backup light (that doesn't take up any pack space and is always immediately available) and I don't have to concern myself with mounting/bar size compatibility considering not all my backup lights work with both 31.8 and 35mm bars. Still think the Hangover works best off-road with the Focal Trail but have had good luck comboing it with the inexpensive ($39) Ravemen LR800 (merlincycles.com) too. Nice floody beam with a good bit more throw than the Flocal Trail + it's tiny. Still requires an external battery for longer rides but has the charge on the fly via usb option.
    I like the Hangover so far - Iím just disappointed in the run time, even on adaptive mode. I guess I need some suggestions on small external battery to use on my helmet to extend the range without using too much weight.
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  159. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    I like the Hangover so far - Iím just disappointed in the run time, even on adaptive mode. I guess I need some suggestions on small external battery to use on my helmet to extend the range without using too much weight.
    Check out post #505 in this thread that shows the different powerbank/batteries I've tried. The blue battery came from ebay but requires a usb adapter (shown in picture) and is what I prefer but this setup costs roughly 2x what you can get a powerbank for. Post 430 also shows a powerbank I'd probably try because it's smaller than the two Ravepower units I have though I can't comment on its quality. Most of the 5000 - 10000mAh powerbanks cost less than $20 so not a big investment that will more than double your runtime. Matt may have some good suggestions so I'd check with him too.
    Mole

  160. #560
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    We've seen the most bang/buck/reliable units from Anker. Any of the 2A+ units work great. Can't really comment on others as we haven't tested them.
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  162. #562
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    Just ordered a hangover, anyone got an adaptor for a niterider mount? I kinda like the strap mount so i can use different helmet. Thanks.

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  163. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    Just ordered a hangover, anyone got an adaptor for a niterider mount? I kinda like the strap mount so i can use different helmet. Thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I think the niterider helmet strap mount is attached via gopro style mount - should be able to just use that with the hangover's gopro style mount.

  164. #564
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    Has this been upgraded since v1? Is there still the high pitch noise? Is this the best bang for your buck self contained light there is? I just want a plug and play all in one and no hassle.

    I ride with a big battery and light on the bars but still need headlight for the singletrack. I hate wires going down my back. Most night rides are 50% single 50% gravel/paved road, so I need to be able to easily turn it on and off on the helmet. I don't need a big run time since I can get by with the bar light if I need to, but a helmet light is so much better.

  165. #565
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    Yep, been fixed a long time ago. Also the USB door problem is totally fixed. Software is pretty much totally solid now that for our next large production run we are just pre-programming all the chips instead of programming them after assembly.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  166. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Also the USB door problem is totally fixed.
    Not totally fixed, mine still hangs down after the plug is removed...
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  167. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Not totally fixed, mine still hangs down after the plug is removed...
    Did you get yours within the last two weeks with the new door that has a small cutout on it?

    The usb port itself is entirely waterproof, so this has just been a cosmetic issue that I've been trying to rectify.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  168. #568
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    No, I got mine in April when you assured me it wasnít an issue any more. But alas, it still hangs down when the charger is unplugged. So no, I guess itís not the corrected version.
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  169. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchan417 View Post
    I think the niterider helmet strap mount is attached via gopro style mount - should be able to just use that with the hangover's gopro style mount.
    Bought the go pro helmet mount, works pretty good

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  170. #570
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    Almost there

    Really impressed with optics engineering and sounds like the light quality is really great, but runtime is concerning. I'd be all over this light if could run FULL high for about 2 hours. I'd happily accept more weight or external battery. I prioritize function over form/weight. Internal battery and 100g was too constraining for the light I want. Sure can run power pack but then have another thing to charge and I shouldn't have to do this for $125 light. I know OL says their benchmark was NR Lumina and agree they beat that, but should shoot for best lighting and runtime. Hoping V2 is closer to what I want.

  171. #571
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    Real close to getting this. Feel free to give me a nudge. Here's my situation: hate wires. Typically run a bar mount (Raveman 1200) and a head light. Don't need more than 2hrs. Annoyed by heavy headlights that pushes down on my helmet.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  172. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    We've seen the most bang/buck/reliable units from Anker. Any of the 2A+ units work great. Can't really comment on others as we haven't tested them.
    Just pulled the trigger on the DH Package, but I definitely want to get an external battery to allow adaptive mode to run for 2.5 hours. I see the instructions recommend something with a minimum 2.4A output which is QC 3.0-compliant. Above, Anker is indicated to have been tested.

    I'd really like to get one of the smaller Anker powerbanks - something like the Astro E1 5200mAh or the PowerCore 5000. However, both of these state that they do not support Qualcomm Quick Charge. Does that mean that I am out of luck with these smaller batteries from Anker? If so, can anyone recommend something commercially available in a similar size that they have used successfully?

  173. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    Just pulled the trigger on the DH Package, but I definitely want to get an external battery to allow adaptive mode to run for 2.5 hours. I see the instructions recommend something with a minimum 2.4A output which is QC 3.0-compliant. Above, Anker is indicated to have been tested.

    I'd really like to get one of the smaller Anker powerbanks - something like the Astro E1 5200mAh or the PowerCore 5000. However, both of these state that they do not support Qualcomm Quick Charge. Does that mean that I am out of luck with these smaller batteries from Anker? If so, can anyone recommend something commercially available in a similar size that they have used successfully?
    Iím using the Powercore 5000 that you listed with zero issues. Allows me to get well over 2.5 hours in adaptive mode.


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  174. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abunchahicks View Post
    Iím using the Powercore 5000 that you listed with zero issues. Allows me to get well over 2.5 hours in adaptive mode.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?

  175. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?
    Outbound stated somewhere in this thread that you have to connect the powerbank when the internal battery is still properly charged.
    Once the internal battery falls below certain voltages / states of charge, you cannot access all modes anymore. if you connect the powerbank at this stage, you can only use those modes which are allowed then by the internal battery's state of charge

    The powerbank will at high output levels only reduce the drain on the internal battery, therefore it will be discharged at slower rates, allowing usage of the higher modes for a longer time.

  176. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?
    Yes I connect to the power bank at the beginning of the ride when the light is at full charge.


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  177. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Real close to getting this. Feel free to give me a nudge. Here's my situation: hate wires. Typically run a bar mount (Raveman 1200) and a head light. Don't need more than 2hrs. Annoyed by heavy headlights that pushes down on my helmet.
    Grab a hangover, and keep an eye out for an announcement in a few weeks about that wireless bar mounted light. All existing OL customers will get a healthy discount to use!
    OutboundLighting.com
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  178. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Outbound stated somewhere in this thread that you have to connect the powerbank when the internal battery is still properly charged.
    Once the internal battery falls below certain voltages / states of charge, you cannot access all modes anymore. if you connect the powerbank at this stage, you can only use those modes which are allowed then by the internal battery's state of charge
    Yep, have this right.

    The powerbank charges the battery, so if the battery is low enough that can't go to the higher modes already, and then the powerbank is plugged in, will be still be in a reduced state until there is enough juice in the battery to get back to full power.

    So honestly, if you are planning on riding longer than the internal battery will allow, just plug in the powerbank to the light from the start of the ride and you'll never notice a stepdown until the powerbank is depleted, and then the internal battery is depleted.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  179. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yep, have this right.

    The powerbank charges the battery, so if the battery is low enough that can't go to the higher modes already, and then the powerbank is plugged in, will be still be in a reduced state until there is enough juice in the battery to get back to full power.

    So honestly, if you are planning on riding longer than the internal battery will allow, just plug in the powerbank to the light from the start of the ride and you'll never notice a stepdown until the powerbank is depleted, and then the internal battery is depleted.
    I appreciate the feedback from everyone that replied. I just got the e-mail that my lights are shipping today - hopefully I'll be able to give them a go on the trails next week!

  180. #580
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    Hey outbound - question for you......as a result of this thread and some reads arch I am considering ordering a set up from you. My issue is I am from Canada. Do you have a canadian distributor of your product?

    Also from what I can see on your website, you ship to Canada for about $25. Do you have many canadian customers? If so, have you heard anything from them about being hit with duties, customs fees etc.
    2016 Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC Edition
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  181. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn View Post
    Hey outbound - question for you......as a result of this thread and some reads arch I am considering ordering a set up from you. My issue is I am from Canada. Do you have a canadian distributor of your product?

    Also from what I can see on your website, you ship to Canada for about $25. Do you have many canadian customers? If so, have you heard anything from them about being hit with duties, customs fees etc.
    The only country we've had trouble shipping to is the UK. Between duties, shipping costs, etc. it's outrageously expensive and no one ends up happy.

    However for Canadian customers we ship via USPS with no issues. We have a flat $25 shipping fee, most of the time our cost is a bit higher than that but it's not terrible. Since it ships through the post Canadian customers aren't hit with duties like with UPS or FedEx.

    ------------------------

    We are currently scrambling to try and spin up more PCBA boards from our supplier. For once we are actually ahead on hard parts like batteries, castings, etc. but some items like the waterproof USB port had unexpectedly long lead times. Our excellent PCBA shop out in Arizona is doing a great job working to try and grab as many parts as we can and will be shipping me boards as they come through so we can try and avoid going out of stock.

    Seems everytime I plan ahead and think "okay, we'll do 50% more sales than last year at this time", or even "we'll do 100% more sales" ya'll keep blowing me out of the water and running me out of stock.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  182. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

    SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

    I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.
    Matt, are you still offering to upgrade original batch Hangover lights? If so I'm fine with sending mine in to rework it rather than exchange. I sent you a couple emails but haven't heard back.

  183. #583
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    For folks running these on helmets like the Bell Sixer with built-in gopro mounts further back, do you find you have enough adjustment range to get the beam where you want it?

    It's time for a new helmet and trying to see if I should focus on ones with built-in mounts.

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