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  1. #201
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    Mole,
    Looking forward to hearing your impressions and comparisons to other lights as to beam pattern, throw distance, etc.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Mole,
    Looking forward to hearing your impressions and comparisons to other lights as to beam pattern, throw distance, etc.

    -Garry
    A storm moved through here about 4:30 this afternoon and soaked everything so actual ride testing will have to wait till tomorrow (fingers crossed). I did get the lights charged but at this point have only shined them on the wall compared to a few other lights. Hot spot is narrow but very intense and appears brighter than any of my single cell lights, even the Ion 1300. Will get my light meter out later and measure the mode strengths + max lux. I really wanted to get some ride time with the Hangover but maybe someone else will get a chance to try theirs out and share their impression of the light.
    Mole

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Same. But I got the status update emails, so I assume theyíre fulfilling orders sequentially.

  4. #204
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    1st run by the light meter



    Like all the OB lights I've tested these were definitely designed with a purpose which in this case is excellent throw. They produced a respectable but not great 800 lumens but also equivalent max. lux readings to what I get from my newest Gloworm X2 (far better than expected). Hot spot of the beam is fairly narrow but impossible to say how it will actually work till I get to use it on the bike. Only real negative thing I've found so far is a much lower output than expected med. mode (250-300 lumens). Though no actual output claims were made by OB for the claimed runtimes of the med. mode I would have expected double the output they actually have (far more usable for me). Looking forward to my first ride with the Hangover!
    Mole

  5. #205
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    I've been patiently waiting for my order from early July. My Gloworm x2 died without warning on tonight's ride, so my patience is being tested with the delivery reports. Stoked!
    baker

  6. #206
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    Interested to see the real world results, product sure looks good. Hope the performance meets everyones expectations.

  7. #207
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    Got my shipping notice.

    7/6 order date

  8. #208
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    Medium mode does sound disappointingly low given this is likely the most used mode. Honestly I canít see using this light for anything other than a summertime urban or road riding scenario. I doubt very highly that I will be using it on trails.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGT View Post
    Medium mode does sound disappointingly low given this is likely the most used mode. Honestly I canít see using this light for anything other than a summertime urban or road riding scenario. I doubt very highly that I will be using it on trails.
    Weird. I almost always use high except on fire roads or waiting at regroups.

  10. #210
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    Itís not weird when you are trying to conserve battery. If the stated runtime of 1.9 hours on high is true Iíd run out of light on almost every ride. I only use high on technical sections of trail or when going fast and going downhill. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to say itís weird I feel is the wrong choice of words. Many people on this forum would argue that medium is the most useful setting on their lights because it blurs that line between output and longer run times.

  11. #211
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    I got mine last night. Had less than 25% charge so I left it charging today. The unit itself looks to be a great quality. The rubber port cover doesn't stay in place after charging all day though. The other thing I'm very concerned about is the high frequency noise it makes when turned on. I have tinnitus (which I hate), so high pitched sounds drive me crazy. I'm not sure If I would be able to hear it when its mounted on my helmet and I'm actually riding, but I don't know yet. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to these kinds of sounds, but the road and trail lights I have from Outbound don't make any noise. I've never mounted anything to my helmet like this before. I hope my helmet will have enough "purchase" space for where I'll need to try and stick the mount. Anyone have any tips for mounting like this since I've never done before? I'm gonna go out i the street in a few hours and see how it looks in the dark. I'm sure I'll be happy with the brightness and the beam softness and spread.

  12. #212
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    While I used the supplied cord to slow charge today (since it's not USB C on both ends), I just found out that the charger for my Macbook will rapid charge the Hangover based on the LED animation going faster as mentioned on the enclosed info sheet. Good to know, so I thought I'd pass it on.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I got mine last night. Had less than 25% charge so I left it charging today. The unit itself looks to be a great quality. The rubber port cover doesn't stay in place after charging all day though. The other thing I'm very concerned about is the high frequency noise it makes when turned on. I have tinnitus (which I hate), so high pitched sounds drive me crazy. I'm not sure If I would be able to hear it when its mounted on my helmet and I'm actually riding, but I don't know yet. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to these kinds of sounds, but the road and trail lights I have from Outbound don't make any noise. I've never mounted anything to my helmet like this before. I hope my helmet will have enough "purchase" space for where I'll need to try and stick the mount. Anyone have any tips for mounting like this since I've never done before? I'm gonna go out i the street in a few hours and see how it looks in the dark. I'm sure I'll be happy with the brightness and the beam softness and spread.

    I have tinnitus myself, right ear is ringing like hell as I type this. I donít have my light yet but going to be listening for this myself.

  14. #214
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    7/2/19 order date, shipping notice today. Yippeee! I ride at night a lot and will vary my technique depending on the length of my ride. If I'm doing a normal ride 1-1.5 hours, I'll pretty much just blast away on high except for long climbs (which can be >30 minutes in duration). A medium of 250-300 would totally suffice for that purpose for me... For longer more variable rides without sustained climbing, that medium mode might be less useful.
    baker

  15. #215
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    Both my lights make the high pitched whine but it's very faint.

    First ride with the lights went pretty well. Everything is still soaked from yesterdays rain so mostly paved surfaces but did find a little dirt with good drainage that allowed me to avoid most of its muddy areas. Like OB's road and trail models the Hangover is far more impressive to ride with than the beam pattern on the wall or measured test numbers would lead you to believe. With its weak med. mode output and narrow hot spot I really thought I was going to hate the Hangover on the bars but that was not the case. Hot spot all but disappears when aimed for throw and spill softly but effectively illuminates a fairly wide area around the front wheel and out a ways so your not blindly going into turns. The med. mode seem much more powerful than my light-meter readings and my ride impression of throw is that the med. mode probably has more throw than any of the single cell sub 1000 lumen lights that I've tried do in high or boost. Beam is definitely on the narrow side of ideal for mtn biking but I'm liking it for road or path use, especially at faster speeds. I did have my 2nd Hangover mounted on my helmet but only ran it for about 10 min. so not enough time to draw any worthwhile conclusions (next time when it's drier!).
    Mole

  16. #216
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    Hey guys. Long time no chat eh?

    I got a few minutes before going back to the warehouse for day 5 of my 12 hour days. We are about halfway through building and shipping orders. All July orders going out this morning should have all August orders built today and partially shipped. We have a 3pm cutoff line for when USPS comes and picks up orders, but near the end of the day is when we are batch building hard and putting the final touches on the lights.

    I've hired a few people to work for me on this temporary basis, might become permanent. The demand during Black Friday was 15 times what it was last year, insane.

    Glad to hear you guys are enjoying Hangover so far. As mentioned it is indeed a very purposefully designed beam pattern and light. It was quite challenging to get the beam pattern to be peaky, but still fall-off nicely. I'll address a few things:

    1. The hum. So this was/is an issue that I'm literally blind to because I am hard-of-hearing, and physically cannot hear frequencies above 14-15khz. So to me, the light was dead silent. The electrical engineer who worked on it did detect a slight hum but that is because of the switching frequency selected for optimum efficiency. He felt it was quiet enough that it wouldn't be noticeable when actually riding and using the light. However, it's clear that some customers are far more noticeable about it than others. We are working on a software fix that changes the switching frequency that should reduce or eliminate the noise entirely. For those that it is bothersome, we'll get the lights switched out for the updated software version. For future light runs (starting January 2020) the problem will be eliminated entirely.

    2. USB Door. We've had some reports that some of the doors don't close fully. We didn't notice this in the 20 or so sample units we had, but felt it could be tighter. One of those things that slipped through in the rush of trying to get this light developed and fixing the more major issues that we were having (such as bad optical alignment). But not to worry, the USB-C port itself is actually waterproof and has an integrated gasket. The door acts merely as secondary protection. I had debated even just leaving the door off entirely since all modern phones are now waterproof and have the ports open.... but ended up putting the door in as dust and mud protection more than anything.

    Again this is something we'll fix for sure in future runs, and is why started out with only 1,500 units instead of 15,000. Always going to find something to improve on quickly once 1000 people start using the product instead of just 3-4. Remember the straps breaking on the Focal Trail/Road lights? Haha...yikes....

    3. Lumen output. I had a feeling someone was going to start bringing up the "low lumen output".

    As mentioned, this was designed like our other lights, with a specific profile and beam pattern in mind. In this case, it was a punchy throw that's fixed to the helmet, so it can have a tighter beam. Also, a punchy beam that blends well into the surrounding forest or desert when in use. So when aimed at a wall it definitely looks tight, but when take it into the woods and start to ride, unless you are looking at something up close the hotspot will "melt away" as you ride.

    It was actually quite a challenge and part of why we had months of delays, was getting that beam pattern dialed in. The first one was a bit too broad and not the punch we wanted, the second one was too tight and not enough spill. Third one was justttttt right. The mix of the blended TIR and the outer flutes with some surface finish changes gives that punch with the falloff required for our eyes to perceive the higher overall brightness.

    Speaking of the perceived brightness. The complaints about the medium mode "only" being 250-300 lumens makes me chuckle. As I had mentioned during the development. We weren't picking the modes based off of graphs and charts. We were going to pick them based on real-world use and what "feels" like a proper middle ground between low and high, as well as what is actually a fair amount of usable light that balances battery conservation. Check out this paper on why dimming and linearity don't go together:

    http://www.pathwaylighting.com/produ...hite+Paper.pdf

    Everyone understands that dimming simply means
    reducing the amount of light emitted from a light
    fixture (luminaire). However, the manner in which
    the light level is reduced and how it is perceived
    by the viewer is often misunderstood. The human
    eye does not perceive changes in light level in a
    linear manner and slight variations in perception
    occur between individuals. However, instruments
    measuring photometric quantities such as lumens,
    footcandles and lux measure light in a perfectly linear
    manner as is required for precision comparison of
    light sources. If the light level is dimmed to a level of
    50% as measured by an instrument, the human eye
    does not perceive this light level to be 50% of the
    original level. In simple terms, half of the measured
    brightness does not appear to the viewer as half as
    bright.

    Human factors studies have shown that the
    eye perceives light in a logarithmic manner,
    mathematically speaking, in an approximately
    squared power relationship.
    So yep, if you compare the medium mode, or the overall lumens in a pure lumen-to-lumen to other lights, we'll come out last every time, but we don't care. Just like the other OL lights, we design with human factors in mind and how our eyes actually perceive light, not just what photometric instruments like goniphotometers, lux meters, or integrating spheres report. It's ALWAYS our goal to use as LITTLE lumens as possible.

    So to hear that you measured 800 lumens and yet the same performance if not higher peak lux than the 1700 lumen Gloworm X2 makes me smile. Our actual out-the-front lumens if you put it into an integrating sphere will probably measure something like 650-700 lumens since we have a blended TIR approach which causes a drop in optical efficiency, but makes up for it in the controlled scatter that surrounds the light and makes it nicer to use in the pitch dark.

    ANYWAYS. I spent like 30 minutes writing this up when I meant to spend 5. Time to head back to the shop and just keep working. Really want all these orders done by Friday, though looking like will need to keep working more over the weekend and into next week as well.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  17. #217
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    Had a good first ride with the Hangover last night. I think the tight beam pattern compliments the OB trail light I have on my bars, but that's going to be subjective. Because of rain/fog, the ride was mainly pavement with some sandy trails thrown in for fun. In the rain/fog, needed to dial the light down to "low" to avoid being the glare (but that's true for any helmet light)... The rest of the time I actually found the "medium" setting to be quite good for most everything... would only anticipate the "bright" setting necessary for some quick/techy sections (which I didn't encounter last night).

    The hum: I'm sensitive to this also, and at home was quite concerned and thought about whether I'd need to return it. Even mounted on my helmet I could hear it a little bit. However, outside, never heard or noticed it at all. Just rode. And these things tend to bother me. So I'll probably send it back for the sotware update, but it's not a deal breaker at all.

    Mounting: my helmet isn't designed to work well with the adhesive mounts. And I prefer removable mounts anyway. But instead of strapping a different gopro mount to the helment, I gave the adhesive mount a go and cinched it down with a voile nano strap (in black) (https://www.voile.com/nano-series-straps.html). Worked great.

    Really impressed with how quickly it charged and the feel/weight of the light on my helmet.

  18. #218
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    @8Trak - Can you please post a picture of how you set up your helmet? I'd like to see it as I'm not sure what I'll do with mine. As for the hum, if I can't really hear it when I'm actually out riding IRL I probably won't send it back for the change. Or at least I won't be in any hurry. So glad to hear you didn't think it was a big deal.

  19. #219
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    Oh yeah, the port thing is funny. If the rubber cover wasn't included I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I really don't care about it now.

    I thought the light seamed very bright in the garage (who cares right), but I was surprised how much throw it had when I pointed it down the street. I feel like this will be a great light for out on the trail. I just need to get myself out there now. Super excited about it. Thanks!

  20. #220
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    Looking forward to the light arriving. All the promises of before thanksgiving.. and then last week, and now hearing they're trickling out has made me impatient!

    I've got my trail light to do the heavy lifting in the meantime! Keep em coming..

  21. #221
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    Mine have arrived home as well. Wonít be able to check them out until Sunday when I am back from business. Keep the reviews coming and please take pics of the helmet and bar mount options (with links to mounting pieces if possible).

    Iím looking forward to using these lights and hoping that the hum doesnít bother me.

  22. #222
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    I received my Hangover light on Monday, after ordering it in early June. I charged it on Tuesday and was able to go for a ride last night (Wednesday). For reference my other helmet light is an old Nightlightning iBlaast with upgraded 3x XML emitters and a 4 cell 18650 battery pack, supposedly putting out 1200-1400 lumens and lasting at least 2 hours on high.

    My initial impressions of the Hangover:
    • Build quality and fit & finish looks great. The button is large and has a good feel to it.
    • I put it on one of my helmets that already had a GoPro mount stuck to it. However the mount was maybe a bit to far center/rearward on the helmet so I couldn't angle the light down quite as much as I would like to. I'll adjust this for next time.
    • Brightness on high is good. I can tell that it's not as bright as my other light, but has plenty of light where I need it. Definitely way more light than the 600 lumen lights I have on my bars. Medium is also plenty adequate for most trails, just not the high speed sections. Low is very low and not really useful for riding, but good for walking or standing around.
    • Beam shape is awesome, definitely way less spotty than my other light. This is most noticeable in that I don't feel like I have to look directly at something to illuminate it, there is always light going in the general direction I want to see.
    • The high pitched driver noise is noticeable while standing around in a quiet environment, but not really noticeable while riding and doesn't bother me yet.
    • The USB cover is definitely the slowest rebounding rubber ever, and would be better if it fit tighter into the opening. Good to hear it isn't totally necessary.
    • Runtime was less than anticipated. I will assume this is mostly due to the ambient temperature last night being around 26 deg F, but I only got about an hour on high. Once the battery charge is down to 1/4, high is no longer usable. I specifically left it on high most of the ride to see what kind of run time I would get. I was only out for about 1.5 hours total, but the battery light was flashing the last bar when I got home. That said I think the Hangover still lasted longer on high than my bar light, which is a Light & Motion Stella 600 with 2 cell battery pack.


    I'll have to get a few more rides in to finalize my thoughts. Maybe one of these days I will bring both lights on a ride and do a direct comparison to my other light as well.

  23. #223
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    I received my shipping notice this afternoon. I placed the order on August 8, after the preorder discount was extended.

  24. #224
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    High mode runtime results

    Black = Hangover high mode

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----hangover.jpg

    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
    Mole

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Black = Hangover high mode

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Hangover.jpg 
Views:	95 
Size:	46.3 KB 
ID:	1298323

    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
    Mole
    So it seems that despite the argumentative and spammy nature of his post he was correct in his calcs:

    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post

    if you try now,
    to reach an Real Output of 800 Lumens in Front of your Light it will cost you ~ 3 Amps or~10-11 Watts energy.

    a single 18650 have ~10 Wh capacity.
    the other sad think, 6 of this LEDs have in total a lower eff then a Single XM-L2 LED.


    On your Website i read that You say your light with this LED types gives 800 Lumen for 2 Hours with a single 18650?????

    can you explain how you get over 20 Wh from a 10 Wh cell?

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Black = Hangover high mode

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Hangover.jpg 
Views:	95 
Size:	46.3 KB 
ID:	1298323

    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
    Mole
    Thanks for your testing Mole! Glad to hear that you "tell it like it is" too! No disrespect to Matt (Outbound), but I want to hear the "real user results" and not just trust a manufacturer. No doubt it's still a great light!

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  27. #227
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    Man, that's a bummer. I was really hoping for 2 hours on high.

  28. #228
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    You know I read Mole's runtimes wrong the first time. I thought it was 61 minutes on high and then another 89 minutes on Medium (of course the graph shows he meant what he said - 89 minutes of actual usable runtime. That's worse than I thought it was. This is running on a pair of 18650's right (the quote from lostplaces above says it's a single 18650)? It seems kind of odd to not get more "usable runtime" out of it, but I guess that's because of the emitters he's using / power they're pulling from the pack. Runtime could increase a bit with some more cycling of the cells.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  29. #229
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    I ran some quick numbers to compare to my current helmet light setup (a Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 dual XM-L2 run on a 2 cell Fenix Case). In my DIY sphere that light puts out +/- 900 lumens on high (+/- 1500 on turbo) and draws 1.26A from the pack. So assuming a conservative 3,000 mAh "true" capacity from my two LG MJ1 "3,500mAh" cells and assuming that current draw remained steady, you'd get around 900 lumens for about 2.4hrs. Now that's a completely different light and it's not a self contained setup, but I don't think I'm going to change my setup.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  30. #230
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    Itís a single cell

  31. #231
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    Well that makes those results seem even better than. I'd personally have made it a 2-cell (or at least bumped up to a 21700 cell) - not too much more size and weight gain for double the runtime.

    -Garry

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Well that makes those results seem even better than. I'd personally have made it a 2-cell (or at least bumped up to a 21700 cell) - not too much more size and weight gain for double the runtime.

    -Garry
    Yeah. Looks like Iíll pick up a 2 cell that I can strap to my helmet for longer rides.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low
    Um, so not only it didn't ran for 2h on High, but it didn't even last 2h after a step-down to Medium?
    Could it be a defective battery or it's just how it is and @lostplaces was right after all?

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
    Mole
    This is almost exactly what I experienced on my first ride with this light as well. And I agree, I don't want to form any final opinions yet until I get a few more rides in with it.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    So assuming a conservative 3,000 mAh "true" capacity from my two LG MJ1 "3,500mAh" cells
    -Garry
    OB postet a Instagram story, where you could see the writing on the cells: 3.2Ah, 3.7V. I guess the desire for fast charging option made those high capacity cells not suitable, but it seems the same cells are used in the battery packs of the focal series (4cells, 6,4Ah @7,2V)

    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    So it seems that despite the argumentative and spammy nature of his post he was correct in his calcs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zayphod View Post
    Um, so not only it didn't ran for 2h on High, but it didn't even last 2h after a step-down to Medium?
    Could it be a defective battery or it's just how it is and @lostplaces was right after all?
    I wouldn't trust a single number from that guy.
    I made a rough calculation myself, and you could get the claimed chip lumens with the best binning at 6-7W power. But for a 2 hour runtime on high the battery cell would have been discharged quite deep.

    Maybe the LED binning is not the highest and the actual power draw is higher? But anyway it is clear the claims are too high, thanks for measuring MrMole!

  36. #236
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    These reports arenít looking too great so far. I bought hoping for 2 hours on high but we barely get 50% of manufacture claimed output. Was this why a runtime graphs was never posted when lostspaces and a few others asked for it? Was it known all along that the light wouldnít come close to the claims. I even bought 2 based on the claims.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    These reports arenít looking too great so far. I bought hoping for 2 hours on high but we barely get 50% of manufacture claimed output. Was this why a runtime graphs was never posted when lostspaces and a few others asked for it? Was it known all along that the light wouldnít come close to the claims. I even bought 2 based on the claims.
    I didnít pour through every post, was it stated that the light would achieve 2 hours on high or 2 hours total?

    So nobody has been able to get two hours on high? Maybe Matt will jump in and explain what the reasons for this are?

    Exactly why medium setting is likely the most used . Run low when climbing or on slow flats, use on high on tech sections and flying downhill, medium the rest of the time. IMO.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGT View Post
    I didnít pour through every post, was it stated that the light would achieve 2 hours on high or 2 hours total?

    So nobody has been able to get two hours on high? Maybe Matt will jump in and explain what the reasons for this are?

    Exactly why medium setting is likely the most used . Run low when climbing or on slow flats, use on high on tech sections and flying downhill, medium the rest of the time. IMO.
    "2 hours runtime on high" is straight from their website.
    2018 RSD Middlechild

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    ......... When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. .....
    Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.
    Yes, but the website does indeed claim ď2 hours runtime on highĒ. Pretty much all of my night rides are in the winter months, and rarely over 3 hours. I donít need even 2 hours on high, but I do need 2+ hours of usable light. Iím patiently waiting for my light. I have a trail edition, and hoped this would be the perfect match. Maybe itís not.


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  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.
    I hear ya but they should have or could have update their marketing materials. I donít have any other if their lights and i guess we will see how these 2 hangover fair. I for sure didnít buy Tim his light to run it on Medium as my primary light source. There was so much talk about how other manufacturers have false claims and donít produce blah blah blah but then this. I hope it was a bait and switch.

    Looking forward to more reviews and real world usage on HIGH.

    Well you can get 2 hours on high if you buy 2 of them and keep one in your pack to swap out. Lol. That may have to be my approach. Or refunds may be in my immediate future.

  42. #242
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    For those of you that the 2 hrs. of runtime in the hi mode was critical in your decision to try the Hangover I agree this does suck! There's still the option to supplement the battery capacity with a powerbank which I will be testing (hopefully later tonight). For the rest of you who haven't received or got a chance to use you Hangover's yet I encourage you to reread "JustMtnB44's" posts (222 & 234). He's the only one I know of that has good trail time with the Hangover, was very impressed with the lights performance, and wants more saddle time before he makes up his mind about the light which is also how I feel after about 60mi. of street and path use + a few mi. of mild trails. Time to go hook up the powerbank!
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    For those of you that the 2 hrs. of runtime in the hi mode was critical in your decision to try the Hangover I agree this does suck! There's still the option to supplement the battery capacity with a powerbank which I will be testing (hopefully later tonight). For the rest of you who haven't received or got a chance to use you Hangover's yet I encourage you to reread "JustMtnB44's" posts (222 & 234). He's the only one I know of that has good trail time with the Hangover, was very impressed with the lights performance, and wants more saddle time before he makes up his mind about the light which is also how I feel after about 60mi. of street and path use + a few mi. of mild trails. Time to go hook up the powerbank!
    Mole
    The option to supplement by carrying a battery pack is a nice one for sure but it shouldnít be needed just to get remotely close to the advertised specs. Even with that said, I am curious to see what you find out when you run it with the external pack and how long it stays before dropping out of high etc. there is also a quick charge option so that could be a workaround as well. I wonder how much it would add if after 60 min it drops out of high to medium and you plug in the pack while off for the minimum quick charge how much more high (if any) do you get.

    Thanks for putting in the work MrMole.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    The option to supplement by carrying a battery pack is a nice one for sure but it shouldnít be needed just to get remotely close to the advertised specs. Even with that said, I am curious to see what you find out when you run it with the external pack and how long it stays before dropping out of high etc. there is also a quick charge option so that could be a workaround as well. I wonder how much it would add if after 60 min it drops out of high to medium and you plug in the pack while off for the minimum quick charge how much more high (if any) do you get.
    I've been playing with single 18650 USB external batteries, so far it seems that you can fatten and flatten up the output and moderately extend the runtime with one connected from the start. Different management strategies would be possible depending on your priorities.

    My testing results without an external battery are similar to MrMole's. I haven't had it in the woods yet but overall I like the light, except for the obvious disappointment with how much it falls short of output expectations. But rides in the woods will be the real test.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Black = Hangover high mode

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
    Mole
    What an incredibly HUGE let down. If I were Matt at Outbound, I'd be embarrassed as hell. I think it's safe to say we've all been sold a bill of goods. It'll be difficult for me to believe his claims in the future.

  46. #246
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    $8 5000mAh Amazon powerbank



    Black = Hangover output
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----screenshot_2019-12-13-we-test-lights-bc30r-test-review.jpg

    Well that was interesting. Power capacity lights on both the light and the battery were some what erratic. At first it didn't seem like any power was being drained from the powerbank as it showed full power (4 lights) till about the 2 hr. point. Light itself dropped a light (1 of 4) after about 45 min. and stayed at 3 lights past the 2 hr. mark. After the 2 hr. mark the battery did drop a light and sometime after 2:30 it quickly dropped 2 more lights and the final one started blinking. When the battery light started blinking the lighthead started cycling through its 4 lights like it was charging. That continued even after the last battery light went out and the light finally just quit at 2:48. Output dimmed in the beginning similar to tests with the internal battery only and dimmed a little more after 2:30 but just went dead at 2:48. Weird but no stepdown and preferable IMO.
    Mole

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Black = Hangover high mode

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    Mole
    This is disapointing but to be expected. Even OL can't change the physics

  48. #248
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    Its not disapointing, that this LEDs run on a very low eff point same like i measured it some Years ago.

    The disapointing think is that users must measure it by themseve if a company Promise 100%+ more than possible and not answerd on my question some weeks ago why they to that.

    ~600 lumen for one Hour then step down to 300 lumen for 30 min up to battery empty looks alright an match my measurings from some year.
    Thats why i sayed clearly some weeks ago, the best what is to reach will be ~800 lumen for 1 Hour!!!!

    the half performance of a much smaller and lighter Zebralight H600 series for example.

    the opcomming Astrolux HL01"25$" with SST-20/XP-L HI option will not have any problem to challenge this light to.
    and 10.000Lux @1m= same or more throwy then this light.

    An german member have measured the other Outbound light with battery pack to and same result, lightyears away from the promisses.

    they promise ~ 1500 lumen for 2,8 Hours.
    the reall world looks.

    mode 4+5 have same draw for unknown reason, with 20 Watt measured.
    the light itself delivers at this 20 Watt 1000 lumen for 1 Hour then the battery pack is half empty and the light makes a hard stepdown below 500 Lumen for aditional 1,5 Hours......

  49. #249
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    The whole thing is disapponting from a customers view, with respect to claims which are not achieved in the final product, especially if you ordered because of the runtime claims. It seems there is again a power step down. Is there anything written in the manual, whether this can be disabled?

    Maybe i get a chance to test the light at some point, but since i more a cyclocrosser/gravelrider, i have no real need for that light.


    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    [...]
    An german member have mesured the other Outbound light with battery pack to and same result, lightyears away from the promisses.

    they promise ~ 1500 lumen for 2,8 Hours.
    the reall world looks.

    mode 4+5 have same draw for unknown reason, with 20 Watt measured.
    the light itself delivers at this 20 Watt 1000 lumen for 1 Hour then the battery pack is half empty and the light makes a hard stepdown below 500 Lumen for aditional 1,5 Hours......
    I need to add some information here since lostplaces reads only what he wants to read.....
    In this case a focal series was measured, power uptake measured from a lab power supply (@10V, not calibrated). In this case the power draw of the first mode and the second mode were the same (20W) but this is expected, as the first mode is the adaptive mode, which start at the highest power (and then reduces the output), the second mode is the "high" mode. So results are fine.
    Lumen numbers were not measured, that is just guessing from lostplaces.
    The power stepdown of the focal series in high mode after roughly 1:10-1:20 was multiple times discussed in the focal thread, but lostplaces seems to be unable to read and understand what was said

  50. #250
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    Anybody have an idea why the Hangover wouldn't step-down when hooked up to the powerbank???
    Mole

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    You kept the voltage sag high enough that it didn't reach that trigger voltage level? How'd you mount that power bank? Just a cord down from the light to your pack/pocket?

    Pretty much all this disappointment could have been avoided by running 2 cells (yes it would have added weight & yes it would have increased it's size). Now users have to add a power bank or carry another light anyway!

    -Garry

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    the half performance of a much smaller and lighter Zebralight H600 series for example.

    the opcomming Astrolux HL01"25$" with SST-20/XP-L HI option will not have any problem to challenge this light to.
    and 10.000Lux @1m= same or more throwy then this light.
    My only exposure to this style of light is my Sofirn SP40 (A much poorer performing helmet light in spite of its higher lumen #'s compared to the Hangover IMO) which even at its highest output level of 1000 lumens had a lower max. lux measurement than the Hangover did in its 300ish lumen med. mode so I remain skeptical. I would appreciate if you could post something on that Astrolux light in the "self-contained" thread that includes your max. lux readings when you get a chance.
    Mole

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    I can try to do some testing on that HL01 when I get mine. I figure I'll try to do a timelapse showing runtime (maybe temperature of the head too) while it's in my sphere with a fan blowing lightly across it. I can try for beamshots too (though we'll likely be under snow for the next 4 months), but I won't have a Hangover to compare to (would be nice to see how different the beam pattern is in the woods). BTW, I broke down and ordered an SP40 (4000k)off Ali yesterday, so I can compare that too.

    Sorry, don't want to drag this thread off-topic.

    -Garry

  54. #254
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    Garry, I totally agree. Staying under 100g doesn't help, when runtime isn't given and you need a powerbank. Because than a helmetlight with an external battery is the cleaner and lighter solution - not even talking of efficiency due to stepdown...

    @mole: did you have the cance to make some real world comparison pictures between a Hangover, your SP40? Would be very interesting to see some beamshots.

  55. #255
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    Man, what a bummer. I donít even have my light yet, and Iím already disappointed. I was pretty excited to loose the cord. Sad face.


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  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    You kept the voltage sag high enough that it didn't reach that trigger voltage level? How'd you mount that power bank? Just a cord down from the light to your pack/pocket?

    Pretty much all this disappointment could have been avoided by running 2 cells (yes it would have added weight & yes it would have increased it's size). Now users have to add a power bank or carry another light anyway!

    -Garry
    I still would have thought once the powerbank was spent the light would react similar to how it did with only the internal battery. Once the powerbank was fully spent the battery level lights on the lighthead started flashing as if charging till the light shut itself down.

    Included usb cable is 39" long so would easily run to my hydration pack. I just had the powerbank sitting next to the light since this was a indoor test. Powerbank only weighs 120 grams so could be strapped to the back of the helmet. They have smaller "lipstick" powerbanks that would probably still extend runtime out to 2 hrs for a lighter option.

    Question: Do you know if these Magicshine usb converters reduce the voltage down from the 7.4 volts on the typical bike light battery setups?
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----004.jpg

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    My only exposure to this style of light is my Sofirn SP40 (A much poorer performing helmet light in spite of its higher lumen #'s compared to the Hangover IMO) which even at its highest output level of 1000 lumens had a lower max. lux measurement than the Hangover did in its 300ish lumen med. mode so I remain skeptical.
    performance from a light have nothing to to with beam profiles "Flood, allround or Throwers".

    If you prefer throwers on the helmet, why not, but why always you put your money into alround or flood types?

    i prefer for example Flood types thats why i exactly looking for them.

    back to a basic, Throw = result of LED size vs Optics ratio.

    the sofirn SP40 is for example a allround type same like your sigma buster 700, niteriders and other stuff.
    5mm LED"with dome"+~20mm optics= result of ~6000 Lux"=60 lux at 10 meters" at 1000 lumens.

    if i like more floody types"dont like jumpiing lightpoints befor my eyes" i take a bigger LED for the same 20mm optics.

    put now into the SP40 an XP.L HI in"=domeless typ or SST-20= mini LED" = 2-3x higher lux"throw" is the result.

    or put now into the SP40 the white flat"black flat generation 4"= 50000 Lux.
    ~8 times higher throw will be the result.

    depending on what you exactly search for you have to select lights not random buy, and hope that it can be somethink be for you.

    ifyou like throwers on the helmet more then allround or flood types, take a look on the thrunite TH20 V2, it uses an XHP35 HI in a 20mm optics= thrower type with ~25000 -lux"~250 lux at 10meters".

    i hate laserpointers on my head for example thats why i not touch the TH20.

    and the coming HL01 will be placed between the SP40 and the TH20.

    ~10000 Lux with ~1000 Lumen so a throwy allround helmet light.
    thats why i am a little bit affraid that it will be to throwy for me.......

    is it possible that you give here an Lux value at 1meter from this light to know where its placed?

    and exept who likes throwy or floody more, a light made in the year 2019/2020 what delivers with a 3000mah battery 600 lumen for 1 hour is not a great performer, thats a convoy S2 does now for 8 Years......a 10 $ light.
    it the SST-20 version the convoy cost same 10$ and makes for example 20000 lux throw.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    Black = Hangover output
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Well that was interesting. Power capacity lights on both the light and the battery were some what erratic. At first it didn't seem like any power was being drained from the powerbank as it showed full power (4 lights) till about the 2 hr. point. Light itself dropped a light (1 of 4) after about 45 min. and stayed at 3 lights past the 2 hr. mark. After the 2 hr. mark the battery did drop a light and sometime after 2:30 it quickly dropped 2 more lights and the final one started blinking. When the battery light started blinking the lighthead started cycling through its 4 lights like it was charging. That continued even after the last battery light went out and the light finally just quit at 2:48. Output dimmed in the beginning similar to tests with the internal battery only and dimmed a little more after 2:30 but just went dead at 2:48. Weird but no stepdown and preferable IMO.
    Mole
    Mole,
    What is the reference light in your graph? That light seems stable at 1000 lumens for over 100+ min and then it steps down to the outbound territory.

    Thanks

  59. #259
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    Could someone please provide a link to a good ďpower bankĒ? Looks like Iím gonna need to one to use the hangover, and I know nothing of them. Thanks.


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  60. #260
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    Anyone have a link to a weather proof DC to USB solution?
    Either a USB C battery pack or converter.

    I have a question out to fma_battery on ebay to see if they can do a pack w/a USB C connector.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I still would have thought once the powerbank was spent the light would react similar to how it did with only the internal battery. Once the powerbank was fully spent the battery level lights on the lighthead started flashing as if charging till the light shut itself down.

    Included usb cable is 39" long so would easily run to my hydration pack. I just had the powerbank sitting next to the light since this was a indoor test. Powerbank only weighs 120 grams so could be strapped to the back of the helmet. They have smaller "lipstick" powerbanks that would probably still extend runtime out to 2 hrs for a lighter option.

    Question: Do you know if these Magicshine usb converters reduce the voltage down from the 7.4 volts on the typical bike light battery setups?
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Mole, according to their product page it outputs 5V up to 2A: https://magicshine.us/product/mj-6086-usb-adapter/

    -Garry

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Mole, according to their product page it outputs 5V up to 2A: https://magicshine.us/product/mj-6086-usb-adapter/

    -Garry
    How would that work w/the light then? I assume opitmally you would want to stay closer to 7.4 volts

  63. #263
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    Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?

    About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.

    Pretty clear now that we need to change that profile to a ramp-like everyone else in the industry does. Keep in mind that this still does meet the FL1 standard for runtime. Which says 10% of the original lumen output. Which by that metric we actually push out to around 2:15 hours, but won't claim that. Runtime is another one of those things that surely most all you know that every brand exaggerates massively.

    I feel like the comparison to other "similar lumen" lights isn't fair either, we have created a beam pattern that throws further than 1000+ lumen lights, yet illuminates the field of view like a flood light. Our target was to beat the Lumina 1200 Boost and the Urban FC 1000 for both runtime, weight, percived brightness, and charge time. We smashed all those goals thoroughly. For those that are entirely focused on lumen numbers, then clearly aren't actually riding with the lights and using them as intended. As mentioned dozens of times, we literally don't care about the lumen numbers, and care more about actual light performance in use. So far everyone has said the beam pattern is amazing, especially for the size and form factor.

    When comparing runtime to peak lux, for something like the 1200 boost, it's pretty clear that you won't find another light anything close to it. This chart compares the brightness (peak lux) of the newest NR 1200 Boost with the Hangover.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----80259718_2586075531511218_2876494195479019520_n.png

    Shows how the engineered beam pattern does more with less, which was the goal from the start.

    If you want us to follow the same profiles as the major players we can, and just do a straight ramp down to near zero. I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" when we are providing a more powerful beam pattern that lasts significantly longer, while still meeting the same runtime standards they set and advertise.

    If you want a refund, let me know and I'll gladly refund you before it ships out. But I will want to know where you can find a light that can beat it. We hit nearly every goal we set out to do, and encourage people to go on real rides with it in the woods and then compare it to existing lights. We didn't design this to beat tests on photometric equipment, we designed it to be the best helmet light for MTB'ing. If others find that it doesn't fit their needs for other types of riding then there are other lights out there. We don't design these lights for a general catch-all.

    The goals here was to create the lightest, low profile, strong beam pattern, fast charging, and longest-lasting light we could. I'm quite proud of what we made.

    For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently. That is why we also designed that factor in.

    We know some people's rides are longer than others, and that's why we made the supplied USB cable so long and with the 90* right angle so that it can mount on the helmet and still run an external powerbank if needed. Still end up with a 100g lighthead on your helmet that can be used wirelessly or with a wire, whatever you desire.

    For reference.... the Gloworm X2, has an 80g lighthead, and a 2 cell battery pack, annnnnd only 1.5 hours of runtime. It was mentioned that the peak lux was similar to the X2 and Hangover. So for the Hangover + a powerbank of your choice, gets you a similarly powerful headlamp, that'll last significantly longer, for way cheaper.

    Anyways. We never set out to cheat people or flat out lie about things. I'm sure some people will somehow think that or whatever, but I'm literally just a dude working out of a small rented warehouse space trying to build the best lights we can. Not importing a bunch of stuff and slapping my name on it. We are making changes to the light based on feedback here that will roll into the new updates. If you want to see a different ramp curve then let me know.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?

    About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.

    Pretty clear now that we need to change that profile to a ramp-like everyone else in the industry does. Keep in mind that this still does meet the FL1 standard for runtime. Which says 10% of the original lumen output. Which by that metric we actually push out to around 2:15 hours, but won't claim that. Runtime is another one of those things that surely most all you know that every brand exaggerates massively.

    I feel like the comparison to other "similar lumen" lights isn't fair either, we have created a beam pattern that throws further than 1000+ lumen lights, yet illuminates the field of view like a flood light. Our target was to beat the Lumina 1200 Boost and the Urban FC 1000 for both runtime, weight, percived brightness, and charge time. We smashed all those goals thoroughly. For those that are entirely focused on lumen numbers, then clearly aren't actually riding with the lights and using them as intended. As mentioned dozens of times, we literally don't care about the lumen numbers, and care more about actual light performance in use. So far everyone has said the beam pattern is amazing, especially for the size and form factor.

    When comparing runtime to peak lux, for something like the 1200 boost, it's pretty clear that you won't find another light anything close to it. This chart compares the brightness (peak lux) of the newest NR 1200 Boost with the Hangover.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shows how the engineered beam pattern does more with less, which was the goal from the start.

    If you want us to follow the same profiles as the major players we can, and just do a straight ramp down to near zero. I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" when we are providing a more powerful beam pattern that lasts significantly longer, while still meeting the same runtime standards they set and advertise.

    If you want a refund, let me know and I'll gladly refund you before it ships out. But I will want to know where you can find a light that can beat it. We hit nearly every goal we set out to do, and encourage people to go on real rides with it in the woods and then compare it to existing lights. We didn't design this to beat tests on photometric equipment, we designed it to be the best helmet light for MTB'ing. If others find that it doesn't fit their needs for other types of riding then there are other lights out there. We don't design these lights for a general catch-all.

    The goals here was to create the lightest, low profile, strong beam pattern, fast charging, and longest-lasting light we could. I'm quite proud of what we made.

    For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently. That is why we also designed that factor in.

    We know some people's rides are longer than others, and that's why we made the supplied USB cable so long and with the 90* right angle so that it can mount on the helmet and still run an external powerbank if needed. Still end up with a 100g lighthead on your helmet that can be used wirelessly or with a wire, whatever you desire.

    For reference.... the Gloworm X2, has an 80g lighthead, and a 2 cell battery pack, annnnnd only 1.5 hours of runtime. It was mentioned that the peak lux was similar to the X2 and Hangover. So for the Hangover + a powerbank of your choice, gets you a similarly powerful headlamp, that'll last significantly longer, for way cheaper.

    Anyways. We never set out to cheat people or flat out lie about things. I'm sure some people will somehow think that or whatever, but I'm literally just a dude working out of a small rented warehouse space trying to build the best lights we can. Not importing a bunch of stuff and slapping my name on it. We are making changes to the light based on feedback here that will roll into the new updates. If you want to see a different ramp curve then let me know.
    Iím not a technical lighting guy. I just want more runtime. I trust that the light will be great, and work beautifully with my trail edition on the bars. Can you link me to a good power bank?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  65. #265
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    As you mention the beam pattern: did I miss any beamshots comparing the hangover to the lumina? Would be interesting.

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    ....... I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" .....
    Some here do. Even in this thread. In post 16 note what I say about exaggerated specs " Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest".

    I don't think you fall into that crowd though. I do think that the Hangover has been in the works long enough that some updates/adjustments to the initial design specs could have been provided. A post of the output graph based on near production grade components could have helped greatly with avoiding the backlash you are now getting.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Mole,
    What is the reference light in your graph? That light seems stable at 1000 lumens for over 100+ min and then it steps down to the outbound territory.

    Thanks
    Fenix BC30R

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?

    About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.

    Pretty clear now that we need to change that profile to a ramp-like everyone else in the industry does. Keep in mind that this still does meet the FL1 standard for runtime. Which says 10% of the original lumen output. Which by that metric we actually push out to around 2:15 hours, but won't claim that. Runtime is another one of those things that surely most all you know that every brand exaggerates massively.

    I feel like the comparison to other "similar lumen" lights isn't fair either, we have created a beam pattern that throws further than 1000+ lumen lights, yet illuminates the field of view like a flood light. Our target was to beat the Lumina 1200 Boost and the Urban FC 1000 for both runtime, weight, percived brightness, and charge time. We smashed all those goals thoroughly. For those that are entirely focused on lumen numbers, then clearly aren't actually riding with the lights and using them as intended. As mentioned dozens of times, we literally don't care about the lumen numbers, and care more about actual light performance in use. So far everyone has said the beam pattern is amazing, especially for the size and form factor.

    When comparing runtime to peak lux, for something like the 1200 boost, it's pretty clear that you won't find another light anything close to it. This chart compares the brightness (peak lux) of the newest NR 1200 Boost with the Hangover.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	80259718_2586075531511218_2876494195479019520_n.png 
Views:	92 
Size:	15.6 KB 
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    Shows how the engineered beam pattern does more with less, which was the goal from the start.

    If you want us to follow the same profiles as the major players we can, and just do a straight ramp down to near zero. I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" when we are providing a more powerful beam pattern that lasts significantly longer, while still meeting the same runtime standards they set and advertise.

    If you want a refund, let me know and I'll gladly refund you before it ships out. But I will want to know where you can find a light that can beat it. We hit nearly every goal we set out to do, and encourage people to go on real rides with it in the woods and then compare it to existing lights. We didn't design this to beat tests on photometric equipment, we designed it to be the best helmet light for MTB'ing. If others find that it doesn't fit their needs for other types of riding then there are other lights out there. We don't design these lights for a general catch-all.

    The goals here was to create the lightest, low profile, strong beam pattern, fast charging, and longest-lasting light we could. I'm quite proud of what we made.

    For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently. That is why we also designed that factor in.

    We know some people's rides are longer than others, and that's why we made the supplied USB cable so long and with the 90* right angle so that it can mount on the helmet and still run an external powerbank if needed. Still end up with a 100g lighthead on your helmet that can be used wirelessly or with a wire, whatever you desire.

    For reference.... the Gloworm X2, has an 80g lighthead, and a 2 cell battery pack, annnnnd only 1.5 hours of runtime. It was mentioned that the peak lux was similar to the X2 and Hangover. So for the Hangover + a powerbank of your choice, gets you a similarly powerful headlamp, that'll last significantly longer, for way cheaper.

    Anyways. We never set out to cheat people or flat out lie about things. I'm sure some people will somehow think that or whatever, but I'm literally just a dude working out of a small rented warehouse space trying to build the best lights we can. Not importing a bunch of stuff and slapping my name on it. We are making changes to the light based on feedback here that will roll into the new updates. If you want to see a different ramp curve then let me know.
    Thanks for responding Matt. I dont think you need to change to follow the same profile as the major players. Keep the light as is for step down vs ramp down. But I would suggest that you update your marketing material to support the light runtime performance.

    I bought from you because you were trying to set yourself apart from all the others and you specifically called out the ANSI standards and the lumen reading as being not the best approaches to judge a light. I agree with that but with your transparency of those aspects should have also came transparency of the finalized product of where the goals were when started to what was the final production information for runtime etc.

    I would assume that many bought because they wanted to ditch the cord and made decisions based on beam pattern and advertised runtime. You met one of the two claimed goals but we find out after receiving the product. So of course that leaves a sour taste in some folks mouth.

    Just update your website and post an appropriate runtime graph vs the design criteria test subjects. The beam pattern will for sure speak for itself with this thread and through your other lights.

    You asked why donít we call out L&M or NR and others for their runtime exaggerations? It is because everyone FULLY EXPECTS that from them. At least most everyone here does. You represented yourself to be different and hence the surprised reactions that are showing up in this thread so far.

    Thanks for reading.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Some here do. Even in this thread. In post 16 note what I say about exaggerated specs " Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest".

    I don't think you fall into that crowd though. I do think that the Hangover has been in the works long enough that some updates/adjustments to the initial design specs could have been provided. A post of the output graph based on near production grade components could have helped greatly with avoiding the backlash you are now getting.
    Van biker, You said it better and shorter than I did. Haha.

    Happy Holidays folks

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipway View Post
    As you mention the beam pattern: did I miss any beamshots comparing the hangover to the lumina? Would be interesting.
    This is one with the 1100 Boost.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----compareniterider.jpg
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  71. #271
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

    Same as has been said before:



    That is your current website as of 12/14.

    If this had been updated prior to shipping you could have avoided the current state of this thread.

    It also bugs me that you avoided this question (runtime) when the math was pointed out.

    I think the light will still work quite well for me as most of my night rides are in the 60-90 min range. But it is quite disappointing that I now need to carry a battery in case I need it.

  72. #272
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    I think the light will still work quite well for me as most of my night rides are in the 60-90 min range. But it is quite disappointing that I now need to carry a battery in case I need it.
    This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market. You would absolutely be needing to carry an extra light if using any other brand light out there.

    Seems a lot of the comparisons here are to other double cell batteries like the Taz or the Fenix that literally weigh twice as much and can't be used on the helmet comfortably because of the size and weight.

    Will we come out with a double cell version in the future? Probably. But for now this light was aimed squarely at other single cell lights like the Lumina, Urban, Volt, etc. so would suggest comparing directly to those.

    Sorry if I'm being testy.
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  73. #273
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    I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle. I just bought a sofirn SD05 because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use (too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I woldd understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6feet10 View Post
    I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle. I just bought a sofirn SD05 because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use (too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I woldd understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?
    Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.

    PM me your name and order number and I'll go ahead and refund you in full if you are disappointed already without having even used the light yet.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  75. #275
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    So, this is my first bike light. I purchased one to see how it would work, prior to committing to a second light for my son, and possibly purchasing two trail series for the bars. I will be the forum guinea pig for this charger:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...142BGUZC6UH73#
    I am in the northeast US, so prolonged high power probably is not as crucial as out in the open desert, but if I can have it, why not.
    I just received the unit today and like the construction very much. I doubt my run time, once charged, will differ appreciably from othersí , but I will test it out in our woods tomorrow evening.
    If any of the disgruntled forumites wishes to unload theirs at the preorder price, let me know. If I like what I see tomorrow, I will want a second light for my kid.
    Does the runtime marketing bother me? A little. For now, I will allow Matt some slack (a one person business is daunting, Iím certain)and attempt to deal with run time with the aforementioned power pack. I almost always wear a pack when riding.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market. You would absolutely be needing to carry an extra light if using any other brand light out there.

    Seems a lot of the comparisons here are to other double cell batteries like the Taz or the Fenix that literally weigh twice as much and can't be used on the helmet comfortably because of the size and weight.

    Will we come out with a double cell version in the future? Probably. But for now this light was aimed squarely at other single cell lights like the Lumina, Urban, Volt, etc. so would suggest comparing directly to those.

    Sorry if I'm being testy.
    Thatís the thing though, I might have waited for a 2 cell version or looked at a different light if this said 2 hrs total runtime starting on high and stepping down. I have a good headlamp with an external battery already.

    That said Iím certainly going to run it and see if it suits my needs and it sounds like it will.

    I donít doubt this will be a very high quality light.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    This is one with the 1100 Boost.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thank you very much. Regarding runtime: I asked the question 4 weeks ago #162 and never got an answer. So the dissapointment shouldn't be too surprising for OL.

  78. #278
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    Well, I'm torn. I ordered a light in early november and hoped to have it by now, based on Outbound's estimate. They returned my initial email right after the order but have since gone silent. Bummer to hear about run times, that was certainly a factor in my decision.

    I just need to know if I'll get a notification and tracking number when the light ships. Outbound won't answer that question. I live in SLC, UT. and we have the distinct honor of 2nd highest in the nation porch package thefts. I stupidly had the light shipped to my home instead of work.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxkid View Post
    Well, I'm torn. I ordered a light in early november and hoped to have it by now, based on Outbound's estimate. They returned my initial email right after the order but have since gone silent. Bummer to hear about run times, that was certainly a factor in my decision.

    I just need to know if I'll get a notification and tracking number when the light ships. Outbound won't answer that question. I live in SLC, UT. and we have the distinct honor of 2nd highest in the nation porch package thefts. I stupidly had the light shipped to my home instead of work.
    You will get an email with tracking for USPS.

    Mine just arrived. Itís on the charger now.

    Like everyone else has said. 1st impression is solid and high quality construction.

  80. #280
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    I went out for a ride this evening with the Hangover. The outdoor temperature was 29F and my trails had about a half inch to an inch of snow on them over ice. The light was bright, and was very natural to my eyes in so far as the beam pattern and throw is concerned. I was not traveling at more than 15 mph given the slick conditions, but it seemed the throw of the light was around 30-40 yards ahead at times. I will have to measure some points on my trail to get an exact distance. I was more interested in the duration of the battery life, being my first night ride and right behind my house. The light behaved exactly like this:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/...79019520_n.png
    -it did exactly what Mattís graph shows to the point where I turned it off at 1:10 to eat. I had 25% battery left, and medium power still had great throw. I only slightly noticed the intensity change while I was riding when it stepped down.
    Prior to riding I charged the light to full, which took 4 min. as I had charged it up last evening. Next test will be hooking up the charge pack I ordered and seeing how it behaves then. Should arrive Tuesday.

  81. #281
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    My step down time is similar to MRMOLEís, too. Battery life, ditto, at least for the 70 min. I ran it for. I will say, that at 25% life on medium, it still threw light out there for a long way, as it illuminated reflectors on my neighborís vehicles that were a couple hundred feet away at a minimum. The light is quality, Matt just needs to market things more professionally in my mind, not the least of which would be the status light meaning chart. I find the last line more annoying than the disputed runtime claims, personally. Too Ďbro and definitely not ďlight nerdĒ worthy.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    I went out for a ride this evening with the Hangover.
    Prior to riding I charged the light to full, which took 4 min. as I had charged it up last evening. Next test will be hooking up the charge pack I ordered and seeing how it behaves then. Should arrive Tuesday.
    Good to see some trail ride reports, hopefully more will start to pop up with people getting their lights. Great to hear your trying out the remote battery option. I had good results using a cheap Ravpower 5000 I got on Amazon but am sure there are better options out there so please let us know what your using and how it worked. Our battery thread or maybe the BLF might be good sources for info. on powerbanks too.

    Cool point, my Hangovers actually started paying for themselves. The manager of one of the local bike shops was very interested in the Hangover and offered to loan me a Lumina 1800 to test in exchange for allowing him to use one of my Hangovers for while to try it out. I'd been wanting to test that light but my eyes don't get along well with the very cool tint NR is now using and it's kind of expensive to just do output testing and then have it retire to my old test light box. Unexpected advantage to owning a Hangover!
    Mole

  83. #283
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    is there a recommended battery charging pack?

    i ordered mine on 10/25, hopefully i get it soon so i can get out and ride!
    2020 yeti sb165 t2

  84. #284
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    I went for a ride and must say the hangover was pretty impressive for its size. It out out about the same output as my old Serfas True 750 (Now discontinued) but the Hangover had a little more punch and a better beam pattern. The Serfas beam lit up the canopy of trees better than the Hangover. The led color temp were close to each other. I also had with me my L&M Taz 1200 ($99). The Taz 1200 was without question much brighter and whiter in the immediate to mid area but with such a diffused beam didnít have the punch of the Hangover. I do mid the get to ride for too long since the bugs where attacking the light out at the park and therefore were all in my face too. Lol.

    Matt did great on the beam pattern and construction is solid. However, when stopped I could hear the high pitched hum and that is bothersome to me. Hopefully a fix will be available soon that will not lessen the efficiency of the light. I am ready to send both my Hangovers in for this fix ASAP.

    Once I got back I broke out the kitchen scale to do some weights.
    Hangover #1 (no mount) - 107.2g
    Hangover #2 (no mount) - 106g
    Included mount for both Hangovers - 28.3g each

    Serfas True 750 (no mount) - 199.1g
    Serfas True 750 (with handlebar mount) - 237.1g

    L&M Taz 1200 (with handlebar mount) - 215.5g

    According to the printout that is included in the Hangover Box if the light blinks rapidly then it is fast charging. I plug it into my MacBook wall charger and it worked fine and blinked fast. I plugged it into my Apple 10W charger and it also blinked fast (which I wasnít expecting). But when I plug it into my brand new Anker 10000PD USB-C it then blinked slower and did not appear to be fast charging yet the Anker is capable of delivering 18W through the USB-C port. I will have to investigate this further and explore different cable usage or even plug into the USB-A port and see if I get a different result.

    One thing to note is that the charge port rubber cover does actually return to the closed state if you leave it long enough.

    I had what i thought is pretty cool idea for a side capability if the light could be programmed to run. Certain way output wise when there is no external battery and maybe double output when it detect an external battery connect for high. And medium becomes the non battery connected high with extended runtime.

    More rides to come to test and use further. The hum I got to fixed though.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market.
    Thats pure marketingtalk, hot air........
    I asked you befor some wekks ago check out the top brands what have for many years high reputations on the market befor you call your light the best.


    And i repeat myself again for you, i use now ~7 Years Zerbalights forthat reason coz its one of the Top players.

    Your product=600 Lumen for 1 Hour in real world at 100 gramms.
    My Zebra= at 600 Lumens set 2,3 Hours"measured!!" runtime with 90 gramms.

    a Zebra outperforms your light over 2 times at more compact size and weight!!!

    your light is no challenger for the top brands, sorry that i must repeat myself.

    thats why i was wondering many weeks ago how you came on the idea your light is a challenger for one of them.

    how do you think people will fell if you promised them for over 100$ a light that delivers 850 lumen for 2 Hours and now the get a 600 lumen 1 hour light" convoy S2 prformance 10$"?

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    Thats pure marketingtalk, hot air........
    I asked you befor some wekks ago check out the top brands what have for many years high reputations on the market befor you call your light the best.
    ...
    your light is no challenger for the top brands, sorry that i must repeat myself.
    Why do you keep comparing flashlights to bicycle helmet lights? You should consider that we are paying for more than just specsheet bragging rights. I'm not going to awkwardly strap a flashlight to my helmet with a bright but compromised beam just for a longer runtime of worse light on the trail.

    I own some very nice flashlights, I've never considered using them as bikelights.

    You said your piece, repeatedly, but you have yet to offer anything relevant to putting an effective, well designed and integrated light on my helmet.

  87. #287
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    Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there
    So you knew you couldn't pull it off, but you still claimed a 2h run time in High? In High, not "2h of usable light" - whatever that means. What is usable for you, may not be usable for 50% of the people out there.
    A lot of people made their choice based solely on the claimed run time. In High. Yeah, it charges fast and has a great punchy beam for it's output, yeah it can run on power banks, but the runtime is not even close to what was promised and that's a bummer.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond View Post
    Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?
    The instruction card that ships with the Hangover lists the modes as: 1.9 hours for High, 2.8 for Medium, 9 for Low and 5 for Daytime Flash, approximate times. It does not address stepdowns or output levels. QuickCharge 3.0 is listed as the fast charging standard, and there is a feature that flashes the light for 10 seconds to warn of impending low battery shutdown.

  90. #290
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    Thanks Velo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond View Post
    Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?
    I should be able to get to that in the next couple of days (maybe tonight).
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I should be able to get to that in the next couple of days (maybe tonight).
    Mole
    wonderful. Thanks.

    For me it could double as a light for when I go xc-skiing, and medium would be more enough light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zayphod View Post
    So you knew you couldn't pull it off, but you still claimed a 2h run time in High? In High, not "2h of usable light" - whatever that means. What is usable for you, may not be usable for 50% of the people out there.
    A lot of people made their choice based solely on the claimed run time. In High. Yeah, it charges fast and has a great punchy beam for it's output, yeah it can run on power banks, but the runtime is not even close to what was promised and that's a bummer.
    We worked as hard as we could even the week leading up to Hangover production playing with cutoff voltage, ramps, figuring out profiles to maximize the usable runtime as much as we could. We weren't even sure what the exact runtime was going to be until we started pushing the software to the freshly built PCB's that went into the new lights a week later.

    Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.

    It's making me consider doing an interesting experiment. Clearly, people want the longest runtime (duh), but also a lot of people are blind to the fact that lights do degrade their beam pattern over time as a battery-saving measure, and as we know our eyes adapt to the darkness and available light, so my experiment is to figure out what's noticeable and what's not. Essentially load up lights with some different software with different light ramps at different speeds and give users random lights and ask them to mark when they can clearly feel a different light output.

    Will be good data to collect and fine tune from there. Right now we've just worked off what we felt was personally best. Makes me wonder if we didn't have the hard steps if anyone would have even noticed or said anything since that would have followed a similar pattern to previous lights.

    Anyways, as stated a few times before. If anyone wants their money back and thinks it's a crappy light because it can still produce more actual usable output (NOT straight up lumens for christ sake, we've been over this) for longer than any other light on the market, even in the medium and low modes, then feel free to email me your order number and I'll refund you before it ships, or send you an RMA to have it sent back and refunded.

    Here's a picture that a customer sent of the Trail + Hangover combo. Can tell how this was designed to pair together wonderfully. Got the wide even illumination of the trail, and then the punch of Hangover pushing deep down the trail, but no noticeable hotspot and blends perfectly in with the existing light field. In fact, can't even really tell where Hangover starts and Trail ends.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----79224970_1343502482477814_560546137535152128_n.jpg

    Can check out our Instagram stories for the many posts that customers make that I re-post showing their lights being used. Going to be updating the marketing materials, new pics, beam pattern comparisons, lux vs time comparisons etc. for other lights here soon. Only about 350 orders away from finally having the backlog of 1,400 orders burned down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond View Post
    wonderful. Thanks.

    For me it could double as a light for when I go xc-skiing, and medium would be more enough light.
    Thatís my plan, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    We worked as hard as we could even the week leading up to Hangover production playing with cutoff voltage, ramps, figuring out profiles to maximize the usable runtime as much as we could. We weren't even sure what the exact runtime was going to be until we started pushing the software to the freshly built PCB's that went into the new lights a week later.

    Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.

    Clearly, people want the longest runtime (duh), but also a lot of people are blind to the fact that lights do degrade their beam pattern over time as a battery-saving measure, and as we know our eyes adapt to the darkness and available light, so my experiment is to figure out what's noticeable and what's not. Essentially load up lights with some different software with different light ramps at different speeds and give users random lights and ask them to mark when they can clearly feel a different light output.

    Will be good data to collect and fine tune from there. Right now we've just worked off what we felt was personally best. Makes me wonder if we didn't have the hard steps if anyone would have even noticed or said anything since that would have followed a similar pattern to previous lights.
    Fair enough.

    I actually really dig the idea behind the Adaptive mode on the Focal series and I get your point regarding this aspect on the Hangover. So technically there is room for improvement just by tinkering with the firmware.

    And while we're on that topic - will the users eventually be able to install the updated firmware on their own or they'll have to send the unit back to you? Because the latter will be a bummer for orders oversea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.
    This attitude right here irritates me. You've lost my respect. You have no idea what that SD05 is! The SD05 is an XHP50.2 light running on a 21700 cell yielding a well regulated 1000+ lumens with a wide beam for nearly 2.5 hours. Being an XHP50.2 light it does NOT have a tiny spot. Sofirn (manufacturer of the SD05) is very well respected over on Budget Light Forum and producing many custom lights for BLF for amazing costs! The SD05 without any group buys or coupon codes is going for $22.99 right now. Is it a perfect light, no. Does it have a comparable beam pattern, no. (I would never recommend this light for helmet use.) I'm not promoting the SD05 as the better alternative to your Hangover; I'm just tired of your attitude lumping all Chinese lights into the "junk pile" and refusing to acknowledge that there are actually some good lights with fantastic features (usually because of the awesome drivers and driver firmware developed from BLF) coming from China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.
    You almost never see those Nite Rider self-contained single cell lights recommended here on this forum - we already know they're pretty crappy with diminishing outputs (which tend to drop hard from the start), short runtimes, and too spotty beams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.
    Not true! Not ALL "cheap lights". My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices.

    I'd venture to say your attitude is irritating others as well and not helping your business. Please drop the "We're the best" / "We produce the best lights" / "All other lights are junk" attitude!

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    ...Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.
    -
    ...Makes me wonder if we didn't have the hard steps if anyone would have even noticed or said anything since that would have followed a similar pattern to previous lights.
    -
    I think most people expected that two hours of runtime on high wouldn't include a significant amount of that to be in medium and low after noticeable stepdowns. In hindsight I expect the disappointed ones of us with more experience playing with this stuff realize we fell into some wishful thinking, but we were lead down that path even if inadvertently. Using the existing competition as an excuse doesn't help. I don't think a gradual rampdown instead of the hard steps would have made much difference, the expectations vs. reality were too far apart. But I don't want to make too big a deal of it, I am still happy with the quality of the light and I will still get good use from it. Hopefully it will be adequate for me as a trail use helmet light paired with my OL Trail. With judicious use of the modes it may have plenty of runtime and running an external pack is a useful option. I hope to get in a good trail night ride on Friday and that will be the real test for me. I have always been sceptical of standalone lights so I understood that there would be some compromises but your approach to design was enough to sway me.

    I know that running a small business is difficult and I expect even more so with the obvious amount of effort you are putting into all phases of your product. I'm fine with considering these optimistic expectations to be a miscommunication and learning experience for everybody but the defensiveness is offputting. The market needs innovation and passion driving new products, and that same motivation can cloud perceptions. People have spent their money site unseen based on past performance and your openness throughout the Focal and Hangover projects. I look forward to your future projects and more of the same, but there will be a greater expectation of clarity in performance goals and expectations.

  98. #298
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

    Well put, Velodonata.

    Most of my night rides are 1-2 hours, starting with long climbs. I usually climb with low/no light depending on ambient lighting. Iím not too worried about the runtime. Group rides often have a top-of-the-last-downhill beer break, and I could easily top off the light during that pause if necessary. Iím more concerned about the hum and whether Iíll notice it or not.

    Edit to add: got mine today. Build quality is excellent, as expected.

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Well put, Velodonata.

    Most of my night rides are 1-2 hours, starting with long climbs. I usually climb with low/no light depending on ambient lighting. Iím not too worried about the runtime. Group rides often have a top-of-the-last-downhill beer break, and I could easily top off the light during that pause if necessary. Iím more concerned about the hum and whether Iíll notice it or not.
    That's roughly how I am hoping the use profile works out, it could largely mitigate runtime concerns. That buzz is funny, I didn't even notice it until I saw someone mention it here, and then I was surprised by how loud it was. But I don't expect it to be a problem while riding, it won't take much ambient noise to mask it.

  100. #300
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    New round of shipment notifications just went out. Mine are on the way
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  101. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    .......Not true! Not ALL "cheap lights". My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices........
    You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    I didnít notice the hum much, even inside. I have bat-like hearing, or so I thought 😏 Minus the sonar. When it comes down to it, I just rode my bike and didnít give the light a second thought until I stopped to check the battery indicator. It was not a distraction, which is what most would want. Very natural feeling. If I go on a longer ride, I will wear a pack anyhow, and my charge pack will be wired up. -provided it plays nicely with the light. I just humbly ask that the F#[email protected]*d gets replaced on the QR card, other than by my black Sharpie. - Too Ďbro for me, too everything for my 12yo to read, but perhaps I am an outlier. Letís see how Outboundís product development goes from here on out now that Pinkbike gave Matt some breakthrough press. I will most likely end up with the Trail Series plus another of these for my son based on the light/beam quality alone.

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices.

    -Garry
    The BT21 w/gloworm spot optics is my current head lamp, so that will be my comparison. I expect to do my next night ride tomorrow but I'll compare them tonight just looking down my street.

    I also ordered a FMA 2S1P 18650 pack and a DC to female USB cord, so I'll have that to strap to my helmet for longer rides or if I find the medium mode insufficient.

  104. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.
    I was just trying to keep some somewhat off-topic discussion away. That's the biggest difference I see with the "cheap Chinese" options vs. a company like Outbound - a company that's nearly "fly by night" versus a "reputable manufacturer". I even tried to encourage Andy Wong (owner of Nitefighter/Revtronic) that he could drastically increase his prices and still have great sales! I told him that when the BT21 first disappeared and I was encouraging him to bring it back.

    Unfortunately there isn't much incentive for the budget Chinese light manufacturers to make a "good" light based on our community's desires (so we are told). It's disappointing (to me at least) that BLF can generate $60k in sales during a group buy on a new custom flashlight, but those manufacturer's apparently don't even want to consider doing a bike specific light. So now the "good budget lights" are like a needle in the haystack. I'm just glad I grabbed what I could while they were available!

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  105. #305
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    I am curious to hear how well the USB connection from the external power bank option to the light head stays connected during off road riding.

    ****

  106. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.
    Besides which the Nitefighter BT21 is not a self contained lamp, and takes at least two 18650 batteries to operate. So not a fair comparison to the Hangover.

    OTOH If comparing any cheapo Chinese lamp, including those that are powered by separate battery packs, the KD BL2S comes quickly to mind. Listing under $16 (free shipping) with itís TIR lenses and XM L2 U3 binning, the 4000K model has both excellent color and a punchy flood. I pair mine as a head lamp with the KDLITKER BL70S 4000K on the bars (modded with a diffusing filter) and get a similar light carpet as Matt posted above combining the OB Trail with the new Hangover. But of course Iím still hampered by the external battery packs so admit mine is not a totally fair comparison either.

    Havenít ordered any OB lamps yet because the only feature that would compel me to do so would be wireless remote, which at this point is still sadly lacking. Donít understand why because the technology is currently available and efficient both in size and energy consumption.

    Though actually my dream head lamp would incorporate a seeing eye/light meter plus accelerometer and be programmable to put out any % of potential lumens desired at various speeds when aimed at an area outside of that lit by a bar lamp, and ramp down accordingly when intersecting the latterís field of illumination as the riderís gaze lowers/centers. This would yield the ultimate in energy efficiency and hands-off convenience for all styles of night riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    This attitude right here irritates me. You've lost my respect. You have no idea what that SD05 is! The SD05 is an XHP50.2 light running on a 21700 cell yielding a well regulated 1000+ lumens with a wide beam for nearly 2.5 hours. Being an XHP50.2 light it does NOT have a tiny spot. Sofirn (manufacturer of the SD05) is very well respected over on Budget Light Forum and producing many custom lights for BLF for amazing costs! The SD05 without any group buys or coupon codes is going for $22.99 right now. Is it a perfect light, no. Does it have a comparable beam pattern, no. (I would never recommend this light for helmet use.) I'm not promoting the SD05 as the better alternative to your Hangover; I'm just tired of your attitude lumping all Chinese lights into the "junk pile" and refusing to acknowledge that there are actually some good lights with fantastic features (usually because of the awesome drivers and driver firmware developed from BLF) coming from China.



    You almost never see those Nite Rider self-contained single cell lights recommended here on this forum - we already know they're pretty crappy with diminishing outputs (which tend to drop hard from the start), short runtimes, and too spotty beams.



    Not true! Not ALL "cheap lights". My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices.

    I'd venture to say your attitude is irritating others as well and not helping your business. Please drop the "We're the best" / "We produce the best lights" / "All other lights are junk" attitude!

    -Garry
    I abslutely second that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently. That is why we also designed that factor in.
    Am I interpreting this correctly to mean, when you know you're going on a ride that will need longer run time on high than the internal battery can provide, it is best practice to connect your external battery up at the beginning of the ride when the light is fully charged rather than stopping to hook it up after you notice the light step down?

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    Iím personally quite skeptical of that claim highlighted above. Admit Iím not too familiar with self contained lights as a whole, and despite the vendorís assurance my Ituo Wiz 20 could not run while charging. However, ALL my cheapo blinkies can run off either USB wall chargers or powerbanks, as do every other USB device I know of currently on the market such as cell phones and tablets, keyboards etc. So even if no competitorís self contained lamps support this feature right now it does not seem like such a great hurdle to overcome.

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    I would really like to see beamshots on trail side by side with other budget chineese light (Yinding, Nitecore bt21, KD2...)
    with manual camera mtbr settings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post

    For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is ....... So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently. That is why we also designed that factor in.
    To bring in here to some clear.

    1. i own by myself ~400 lights."dont ask why!"
    ~25 off them, near all off my "helmet lights" of them have USB conectors and have pass through funktions= charge + run .
    ~100 of my other with USB from my lights have all that epic feature to.......
    lets say it from another side, to find this days a light on the market that not supports pass through is hard.

    and your only competitor is your Niterider light, that i dont own so if ir not have paas throuth you find the only one thats not able .......

    2. the more important part, USB connectors have flimsy tiny contact pins , this conectors made for home office stationary usage.

    if i use this connectors on a bike under permanet movement the small pins=connector will be very fast destroyed.
    if i have destroyed the connector on this way after some uses on my bike, how can i then charge the light???
    you will all the people resend new light what destroy there USB connectors under absuse?

    if anyone is looking for a wire based light, there a more then enouth lights on the market with serious connenctors that are able to handle movement.

    and last part to connect, a powerbank to whatever results in a DC-DC convert what eats ~ 20-30% of the totall amount of the powerbank cells.
    who will do that if batterys/battery packs can be direct connectet with a wire to a light......

    I am learning every day from you new stuff, so your light performs bad because it was designt to destroy the only one charge connector under heavy movement very fast.......

    your self promotions that you over all only are doing have alot of ironic in it.......

  112. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    The tabs for it are literally built into the housing itself. The Gopro helmet mount that will come with it is the typical standard mount that GoPro provides. Otherwise the housing will mount onto any mount that uses the standard action camera tabs.

    Here is a picture of an early production sample prototype on Tom's bike. No silkscreen logos or anything on there yet.

    Attachment 1285791

    Attachment 1285793
    @Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.

  113. #313
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    Andy, Mole has already proven it'll work off the power bank when connected with its own battery being full - see his post with his runtime graph.

    -Garry

  114. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhocewar View Post
    I would really like to see beamshots on trail side by side with other budget chineese light (Yinding, Nitecore bt21, KD2...)
    with manual camera mtbr settings.
    Where can I find the manual camera settings?

  115. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Here's a picture that a customer sent of the Trail + Hangover combo. Can tell how this was designed to pair together wonderfully. Got the wide even illumination of the trail, and then the punch of Hangover pushing deep down the trail, but no noticeable hotspot and blends perfectly in with the existing light field. In fact, can't even really tell where Hangover starts and Trail ends.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For the sake of comparison, hereís a shot of my KDLITKER BL70s + BL2S combo.

    KDLITKER BL70S Bars BL2S Head by andyXchrist, on Flickr

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    Found the settings:


    6 SECONDS AT F4 - WHITE BALANCE - DAYLIGHT

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Andy, Mole has already proven it'll work off the power bank when connected with its own battery being full - see his post with his runtime graph.

    -Garry
    If youíre talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Mattís claim that none of the COMPETITORSí lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.

  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    If youíre talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Mattís claim that none of the COMPETITORSí lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.
    Oh, I gotcha. Thought you were doubting the Hangover would.

    -Garry

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    Got my shipping notice today. Ordered 9/25

  120. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Found the settings:

    6 SECONDS AT F4 - WHITE BALANCE - DAYLIGHT
    Think you meant "1.6 seconds". Here is a copy of my note on MTBR camera settings:

    MTBR Standard:
    Exposure - 1.6s
    Aperture - f/4.0
    ISO 200
    WB - "Daylight"

    -Garry

  121. #321
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    Well I couldnít figure out manual settings on my daughters camera so here are iPhone pics.

    BT21 with Gloworm spot optics and the Hangover



    For reference the first mailbox on the right with white on top is about 70 feet away.

    The second mailbox with red is about 110 feet.

    The white car is about 140 feet away.

  122. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    If youíre talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Mattís claim that none of the COMPETITORSí lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.
    While I wouldn't consider any of the Ravemen lights or my Gloworm CX direct competitors for the Hangover they do have the charge on the fly feature.
    Mole

  123. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post

    2. the more important part, USB connectors have flimsy tiny contact pins , this conectors made for home office stationary usage.

    if i use this connectors on a bike under permanet movement the small pins=connector will be very fast destroyed.
    if i have destroyed the connector on this way after some uses on my bike, how can i then charge the light???
    you will all the people resend new light what destroy there USB connectors under absuse?
    :.
    Thanks for bringing this point up. Luckily the Hangover has a nice tight and solid connection (compared to a lot of my usb lights). Still if you use a powerbank all the time your doubling the plug in cycles for every charge. I've had a light that failed from usb wear and tear before so probably a good habit to detach usb cable from the more durable battery/charger connection or maybe consider getting a short extension cable and leavin it plugged in to the light all the time and just replacing the extension if there is any connection damage.
    Mole

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    Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesnít some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe theyíd work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.

  125. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesnít some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe theyíd work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.
    Good idea. Something like this


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  127. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesnít some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe theyíd work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.
    I had ordered a couple of sets in anticipation of getting my Hangover, I've been testing them a bit. It would seal the port, save on wear and tear, make connecting and removing the cord very easy, and provide a breakaway function for crashes and snags. I have ordered another style, too. The magnetic ones I have now don't seem to supply as much current as the supplied cable. Hopefully the next ones do. The Hangover is listed as being designed for QuickCharge 3.0, the first cables were not. The cable could supply more power when I used it to charge my Chromebook, so the problem appears to be in the power negotiation between the source and device through the cable and not simply the capacity of the cable. I'll report back with any updates.

    I placed a very small o-ring around the plug to enhance the seal.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----img_20191212_040028.jpg

    It freely swivels and seems like it will stay in place while riding, the cord is light and flexible. The light will hang from the cord by the magnet.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----img_20191212_032727.jpg

  128. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.
    the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
    te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!

    to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
    or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.

  129. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    I had ordered a couple of sets in anticipation of getting my Hangover, I've been testing them a bit. It would seal the port, save on wear and tear, make connecting and removing the cord very easy, and provide a breakaway function for crashes and snags. I have ordered another style, too. The magnetic ones I have now don't seem to supply as much current as the supplied cable. Hopefully the next ones do. The Hangover is listed as being designed for QuickCharge 3.0, the first cables were not. The cable could supply more power when I used it to charge my Chromebook, so the problem appears to be in the power negotiation between the source and device through the cable and not simply the capacity of the cable. I'll report back with any updates.

    I placed a very small o-ring around the plug to enhance the seal.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It freely swivels and seems like it will stay in place while riding, the cord is light and flexible. The light will hang from the cord by the magnet.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can you provide a link for that set up?

  130. #330
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    OK, Hangover received, charged, mounted, and ridden with. FYI, I have had many many lights over the years and most recently have been using a Gloworm X2 on my helmet and Magicshine MJ906 on the bars (or for a lot of riding just a Blackburn Countdown 1600 on the bars).

    Short spin around on dirt and snow. I have zero hard data to share, just first-hand impressions/thoughts.

    The Hangover is light! No wires is awesome!

    Charging via my QC charger seemed quick. I didn't time it, but plugged it in with one solid green light to start, forgot about it, came back a bit more than an hour later and it was ready.

    Go Pro mount needs a flat spot, which very few of my helmets have. I have one dedicated night riding helmet that does (but I don't like the fit) and my ski helmet does. Good thing it is frickin' cold (10F) and the ski helmet is a necessity right now.
    edit: I see there are many aftermarket mounts that should work with a non-flat vented helmet. I'll have to check some out.
    edit 2: And, I just realized my Gloworm X2 uses the same style mount, so the velcro helmet mount I have for it will work just fine for the Hangover...yay

    Button is big, positive, and the UI is fine. I don't use flashing modes, so Hi/Med/Lo is perfect.

    High has a lot of throw, certainly sufficient for my riding style. Beam shape is fine with me, but I'm fairly insensitive to this. I don't think a lot of light is wasted skyward, like some of my cheap lights.
    Medium is quite sufficient. Certainly fine for most low/medium speed riding.
    Low is usable basically for long fire road climbs, but that is it. I do a lot of this kind of climbing, so low will probably work out for me.

    Zero data on runtime, as I just tooled around for a short bit.

    I'm looking forward to getting more riding in with the Hangover...
    baker

  131. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
    te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!

    to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
    or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.
    Lighten up, Francis. It's very easy to add some extra sealing to the port if needed, which would only be for the rare wet ride anyway. For anyone in a particularly moist environment, an o-ring or gasket would be simple, no glue required. The port is a good fit and would be easy to externally seal and if it got very wet the plug could be pulled to allow any intrusion to dry.

  132. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_stoke View Post
    Can you provide a link for that set up?
    I would prefer to hold off until I can compare it to the set I am receiving in a day or two, it could be a significantly better option.

  133. #333
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    Hangover Hi mode w/powerbank - Hi mode - Med. mode

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----screenshot_2019-12-13-we-test-lights-bc30r-test-review.jpg
    Mole

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    @mephasto and @andychrist: thanks for your comparison pictures, is it just me not seeing the gamechanging of OL? I had this impression when I took some beamshot of my BT40s in combination with my ituo xp2 before where I didn't see much difference. But maybe in reality the impression by the eye is different, what's your conclusion, @mephasto?

  135. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipway View Post
    @mephasto and @andychrist: thanks for your comparison pictures, is it just me not seeing the gamechanging of OL? I had this impression when I took some beamshot of my BT40s in combination with my ituo xp2 before where I didn't see much difference. But maybe in reality the impression by the eye is different, what's your conclusion, @mephasto?
    Iím going to wait until after a ride before I comment on how I like it. Comparing it to an external battery light isnít a fair comparison but the BT-21 is what I have for comparison.

  136. #336
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    Looking forward for your ride

  137. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    the BT-21 is what I have for comparison.
    What optics are you using in your BT21?
    Mole

  138. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    What optics are you using in your BT21?
    Mole
    Itís in the pics post but they are Gloworm spot optics

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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    For the sake of comparison, hereís a shot of my KDLITKER BL70s + BL2S combo.
    To be fair one would need to know the power consumption of your setup vs the OL setup. Your lights throw a lot of light in the tree tops, the OL setup doesn't, so your setup probably blasts out more light to get the same result.
    Whether that would be a good argument to get those OL lights is a different question, especially if you like your setup.


    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    To bring in here to some clear.

    1. i own by myself ~400 lights."dont ask why!"
    ~25 off them, near all off my "helmet lights" of them have USB conectors and have pass through funktions= charge + run .
    ~100 of my other with USB from my lights have all that epic feature to.......
    lets say it from another side, to find this days a light on the market that not supports pass through is hard.

    and your only competitor is your Niterider light, that i dont own so if ir not have paas throuth you find the only one thats not able .
    Your repetitions grow old, your pointed out repeatedly that you use all kind of lights for comparison, OL only compares to dedicated single cell self contained bike lights. This can be critizised (and has been done more than enough), but this comparison is totally ok for a bike light.
    But OL forgot e.g. the B&M lights like the Ixon Core and Ixon Space, which allow also charging during use. And those are bike lights, albeit not for helmet use.


    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    @Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.
    Not Matt, but this could be the Ritchey GoPro Stem Mount. (Sorry for the link to a german shop, i am sure you can buy it from a vendor closer to your home) Edit: looked at Toms setup again, seems like a different mount, somehow fixed with screws below the stem. But maybe the Ritchey Mount is helpful as well.

  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Itís in the pics post but they are Gloworm spot optics
    Thanks, I just wanted to know exactly what I was looking at. Those optics make a huge difference in that lights output (+50% for max. lux readings).
    Mole

  141. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    I would prefer to hold off until I can compare it to the set I am receiving in a day or two, it could be a significantly better option.
    Seemingly, once the best option is found, someone could 3D print a surround that would fit snugly in the space the rubber door now occupies and keep things dry and movement free.

  142. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    Seemingly, once the best option is found, someone could 3D print a surround that would fit snugly in the space the rubber door now occupies and keep things dry and movement free.
    I'm not even sure that would be worth the trouble. The magnetic plugs I have now are a snug fit, I believe by design. They won't come out on their own. I put the thinnest o-ring I had on hand around it and outside of some very extreme conditions I think it will be plenty. A thin gasket would also be very simple to make. I went ahead and cut the flap away to clear the plug area, it is very securely installed and will not pull out without significant force, I tried and quit pulling before it tore. The Hangover is a very solidly built device and a nice piece of hardware.

    It also remains to be seen how often the recharge while riding feature will be needed, I am really looking forward to getting this thing in the woods Friday night to see how it does on a typical ride paired with the OL Trail.

  143. #343
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    Maybe more of an OEM update down the line, perhaps. We will see what impact consumer feedback and innovation has on the future generations of this light.

  144. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihlgoin View Post
    Maybe more of an OEM update down the line, perhaps. We will see what impact consumer feedback and innovation has on the future generations of this light.
    My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells. It would be a relatively simple change. There is almost enough room for a 21700 as is. That would make all this runtime drama and charging hassle go away. I'm resisting the temptation to go full Red Green on this thing and make it happen. Well, I am at least waiting to see how well I like it in actual use.

  145. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells.
    See my post #2. Not having the battery quickly changeable by the user during a ride was pretty much the deal killer for me.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  146. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells. It would be a relatively simple change. There is almost enough room for a 21700 as is. That would make all this runtime drama and charging hassle go away. I'm resisting the temptation to go full Red Green on this thing and make it happen. Well, I am at least waiting to see how well I like it in actual use.
    Carpe Ductum, man.
    (ďSeize the TapeĒ for those who donít know Latin)
    Ah, Red Green. He would probably end up taping his bike frame via broom handles to a construction site mobile light and calling it some sort of rickshaw. The memories. Plausible solution....

  147. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
    te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!

    to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
    or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.
    I don't buy this argument at all. A properly designed unit will not have issues. For 20+ years I have been using +/- $3,000 mobile devices outdoors for 6+ hours at a time sometimes completely covered in snow. I don't even flinch if one of these gets submerged in water. I've never experienced a corrosion problem or connection problem due to this use. Like these lights, the units are brought back indoors to dry before going back out the next day.

    Here's a pic showing one of these types of mobile devices. This is an old one with the ports on the bottom, but some brands/models have the ports across the top. There are no port covers on most models.

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----img_20191217_085927172_hdr.jpg

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  148. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    I don't buy this argument at all.
    x2. I support researchers who take electronics to really harsh environments, from the arctic to tropical rainforests. Properly designed electronics work fine in these environments without a problem, granted you have to pay top dollar for them but (just like bikes) you get what you pay for.

  149. #349
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

    For those that donít want the stick on mount or canít use it due to curvature, I bought this http://Action Camera Mount for Helme...p_mob_ap_share

    Initial impression is that it will work well. Quality seems good and I like the nylon straps vs Velcro.

  150. #350
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    Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----curved-gopro-helmet-mount.jpg



    *****

  151. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
    Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Long time no see, scar! Mine came with a mount that looks like the upper one in your pic. Slightly curved.
    baker

  152. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output...
    First of all, I am a big OL fan. I am a repeat happy customer and I am stoked to support a US based company that's trying to do something different. I intend the following statements to be as objective as possible. I am not looking to bash what you have done.

    I don't think there would be any backlash at all if it weren't for the last 2 words: "Two hours of run time on high." My wife tells me I am dense all the time but to me that means 2 hours of run time on high. One hour of run time on high followed by another hour run time on medium and low is not two hours of run time on high. That's just plain English.

    I also think the reason you are being compared to lights that everyone knows have questionable specs/run times (the above mentioned NR, L&M, cheapo Chinese lights) is because you specifically called out those brands and stated OL is different. Your promotion of the light having a "two hour run time on high" is false which puts OL in the same boat as those other manufacturers. You earned a lot of credibility and legitimacy with Focal series lights and, in my opinion, you have damaged that reputation with the way you promoted the Hangover.

    As I already mentioned, I am a happy OL customer. I have both the trail and road edition Focal series lights. Honestly, I considered cancelling my order after reading the initial real world reports of the Hangover. Personally, the light will still work for me and I hate riding with a cord going to my helmet so I am still anxiously awaiting the arrival of my Hangover (just got my shipping notice, yesterday). I'm pretty stoked to go for a ride and try it out!

  153. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
    Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    *****
    Itís curved but someone above couldnít get it to work with their helmet.

    I didnít try because I donít want that sticker on my helmet all the time and I need to use the light on multiple helmets.

  154. #354
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    mestapho, your link above isn't working. Can you correct / repost the link?

    Thanks!
    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

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  156. #356
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    Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)
    baker

  157. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)
    I bought 2 of the GoPro mounts.


    https://www.amazon.com/GoPro-Vented-.../dp/B002EF2200

  158. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    For 20+ years I have been using +/- $3,000 mobile device
    same like me.

    and i dont talk about whatever i talk about only the flimsy pins from USB conectors!!!!!
    big connectors with alot of contact surface and material is not that about we talk here.

    the last ~6 years companys start to put about the mobilphone hype on an gadget the creapy micro USB shit on anythink, i destroyed alot of them in normal use "without the corrosion problem!"coz they are mechanicly horrible stuiff.
    not only on phones, alot of gadgets that comes with this connector will die to....

    i have a hot air solder station so no problem for me to solder new one and replace them always or for friend on there gadgets the destroyed micro USB connectors.

    the conectors themself are cheap like hell.
    only with a solder iron thats not funny to do.

    ~1 year ago now the USB-C starts to *** in more and more products, and this connector have more pins then micro USB and the surfsace looks smaller so i dont know how many i will replace from this one the next years.

    i hate this stuff to see it on produkts that nothing to have to do with data transmission task for what is this connector made for......

    i am talk about the flimsy 0,2mm pins in a USB port !!!!

    and if you loose the rubber plug to protect the connector in your toys or better this 0,2mm metal pins you will have a corrosion contact problem.

    if you check the Astrolux HL01 its the first helmet light with a serious made USB port protection on it!!!!
    the pins protected 100% against dust and watter"= corrosion" and dirt, so it will last manx times longer then any other light with this port.

  159. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)
    It works fine with the Hangover. A little tight but nothing major.

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    I'm still undecided if I should cancel my order.

    There are two open questions:
    (1) How long is the runtime on medium?
    (2) Can we do firmware updates at home or have the lights be shipped to Matt?

    With less runtime the light serves less purposes. It will still be the perfect backup light for dayrides if they take too long. And for short night rides or rides on easy trails where I don't need that much light.

  161. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6feet10 View Post
    (1) How long is the runtime on medium?
    According to Mole's test up above in post #333, he got approximately 140 minutes on medium (until stepdown to low).

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  162. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    ..... the Astrolux HL01 its the first helmet light with a serious made USB port protection on it!!!!
    the pins protected 100% against dust and watter"= corrosion" and dirt, so it will last manx times longer then any other light with this port.
    When I search for that light all I get are pictures of a 90 degree flashlight. Sure, one can strap most anything to a helmet, but I would not consider that a helmet light.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  163. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6feet10 View Post
    (1) How long is the runtime on medium?
    (2) Can we do firmware updates at home or have the lights be shipped to Matt?
    2:18 before it steps down to low. No degrading of output from start up to that point. Check post #333 for ouput chart. Don't think the firmware update exists yet.
    Mole

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    I'm not sure what is expected from a firmware update. Because this will not change the physics.There is simply not enough energy in the battery to run much longer with maximum lumens. Of course you can change the characteristics from drop to something more linear, but this would only lead to earlier dimmer light.

  165. #365
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    Got mine over the weekend. My quest? 2 self-contained lights w/o the need for backup batteries that provide sufficient light for 2 hours-ish of night riding.

    Did a short test ride last night to test against my previous/now bar light. Here are my thoughts based on my previous setup...

    Previous Setup > Exposure Diablo MK8 1400L + 3.4ah Battery
    The Exposure Diablo has been my goto for my many years. This light is very comparable to the Hangover, besides the price as it's way more expensive. Before the MK8 I had the MK2, which lasted for 6 or 7 seasons. The light is very reliable and durable. It can run on high for a solid hour and medium for 2.5+. For night rides requiring light the entire time I'd add the small support battery and attach it to the helmet. This let me run it on high for almost 3 hours! So a self-contained light that is self-contained-ish with the small battery. The downside to this setup was the a very heavy setup on the helmet. Also, the light on medium doesn't have a far enough reach. Run it on high and you get a lot of shadowing. I tried a Lumina 1200 on the bar alongside this setup, which helped but I still had to run the Diablo on high to make it usable and I still had some serious shadowing further down the trail. So, now I had 3 batteries to charge and I'm still not happy with the results.

    Enter the Hangover. My plan was to run the Hangover on the helmet and the Diablo on the bars with no backup batteries. So, I took both lights out on my brief ride. I put them both on high for about 15 minutes as I spun away from house and road lighting. After that I put them side by side to see what I had going on. I also spun around for about 30 minutes at different speeds, trying all the different brightness settings on both lights to see what I liked. Here is what I found:
    - The Hangover is lighter than the Diablo and feels way more comfortable on the helmet. The GoPro mount is superior to the Diablo mount.
    - The Hangover light on high is not as bright as the Diablo on high but actually has a further and wider throw.
    - There is no shadowing with the Hangover and only a small bright spot in the middle. The Diablo has a very pronounced bright spot in the middle on all modes.
    - The Diablo on medium is pretty much unusable for night riding. The shadow affect is gone, but the throw is very short and the light is dim. The Hangover on medium is usable, but not preferable as an only light.
    - Both lights on low can get you out of the woods.
    - For duration my experience with the Diablo is it gives you a solid 1 hour on high and about 2.5+ hours on medium. It does ramp down, but it's not easy to track this as the battery monitor doesn't really work well. I just know it's bright as hell at the beginning and very dim towards the end of the ride.
    - Since my ride was short I couldn't get a feel for the Hangover. Based on the posts on this forum 1 hour on Hi, then 30 on medium, then 30 on low sounds comparable to the Diablo
    - Running both lights is amazing. The Hangover on high on the helmet and the Diablo on medium on the bars was pretty amazing.
    - I ran both on medium and it was also excellent, but noticeably less throw.
    - I could see running the Hangover as my only light on the high setting. On medium it could work, but I'd be wanting more light.

    So, overall I'm stoked with my initial testing. The question will be how the combo works on longer rides. Hoping to get that done next week.

    I should mention my wife did a 2 hour ride last night with this same combo. She said the drop down from high to medium was noticeable, but not a problem, she still had plenty of light. When it dropped down to low it was more noticeable, but still not a problem given that she had both lights running. The Diablo ramps down, so no way to tell how much it's ramping down.

    As far as the Hangover itself? Impressive little light. The beam pattern is noticeably better than the Diablo. I really like the GoPro mounting as now I can run it on my snowboard helmet and DH helmet. I noticed the humming when not moving, but couldn't hear it while riding. It didn't bother me at all.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  166. #366
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    @woodyak, maybe also a great solution would be to run a Hangover on the bars and another Hangover on the helmet.

  167. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    @Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.
    Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----002.jpg Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----004.jpg

    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount

    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount

  168. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount

    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount
    Just popped in to respond to this; Ritchey makes an excellent, light, sturdy GoPro adaptor for stem faceplates. It fits (just barely) 30mm spacing with some modification. While that won't fly for every stem, if it does, it is a clean way to integrate. Technically, it's supposed to be run on the bottom, but due to the design, you could run it "sideways" (both left/both right faceplate screws).

    I modified mine to spread just a titch wider, and other than it having a propensity to rotate down slightly due to the wide stance, it has held a ~250g self-contained flashlight-type light just fine amidst some harsh riding.

    I have nothing to add to the thread, not having used the Hangover yet, but I did receive mine. The high-frequency whine is extremely noticeable to me...but I have, admittedly, not used it on the trail. I will make my decision with whether or not I can deal with it once I actually get on a trail.

    Time/usage seems to be right in line with the reality of the type of riding I do; I will revisit using a magnetic disconnect on the light (can't hurt, right?), but will also add that, over 6 years, I've never had a failure of a USB port on a light, either myself or the 100's of people I've personally encountered. Broken switches, failed wires/solder joints? Tons, relatively. USB failures don't even register on my radar.

  169. #369
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    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ---

    First ride tonight. Only a few miles in the dark.

    First impression is the the hangover will do what I need just fine. Plenty of throw and blends well with the Focal Trail. Medium is fine for slower sections.
    My only criticism of the beam is that I wish it had a little more vertical spread. The narrow beam height requires more accurate beam aiming to get light in the right place.

    The BT21 is brighter with a wider beam but Iíll take the trade off for the weight and not having an external battery.

    I didnít notice the noise at all stopped or moving but my ears arenít great either.

    The Amazon GoPro strap worked perfect. I will get a lower profile qr mount for it though.


    My buddies instantly asked about the light. It stands out in a crowd. Looks very impressive.

  170. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount

    https://www.action-led-lights.com/co...andlebar-mount
    Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol

  171. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol
    If you are particular about it, look at the K-Edge mounts.

    https://k-edge.com/product-category/...camera-mounts/

  172. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol
    It is offset a little.
    Mole

  173. #373
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    Another ride w/ the Hangover last night, just the last couple miles ending in the dark. Snowy fire road climb, followed by snowy technical singletrack descent. I just used the Hangover with no bar light. Actually wasn't planning on finishing in the dark, but had my suspicions. This is the exact scenario where I see myself using the Hangover. Too lazy to breakout the batteries and separate head units...

    Worked fine, but lighting is pretty easy when everything is white and bright. Light stayed stuck to my ski helmet with the adhesive mount, despite it looking suspect. Barely any surface area contact due to mismatched curves between the helmet and mount.

    Adjusting the mount up/down is a cinch and it stays in place. Spread of the beam is pretty wide, but there is a fairly well defined hotspot in the middle.
    baker

  174. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    When I search for that light all I get are pictures of a 90 degree flashlight.
    Ok back in time 10 years ago.
    at this time Zebralight and another company start the try to make the smallest possible helmet/headlight powerd by an 18650 battery.

    i dont know if you know the importand parts of any light i show it you.

    the 18650 battery, the driver to power the LED, then the LED"most times on a board used" and finally the optics for any type of beam what you like.

    if you now try to get this 4 parts together on the smallest possible way to not easte an mm of space"air" beween them there is only one possible result.
    and the lighthead must be easy to move for adjust from narrow to far away so the result looks so.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----light.jpg

    only this design grands you 100% the smallest possible size without any mm of wastet space and mechanicly absolutly robustness for any type of harcore sports!!!!!!
    i dont think that is hart to understand if you look on the mainparts of a battery powerd light.


    if you will compare a zebralight with this outbound light that looks like a spaceship you will understand how horrible bulky this think is!!!!

    if you drive with your car over a zebra nothing happening.
    if you drive over this outbound think, you will have tons of parts.......

    from the machanicly side a cheap toy.....

    back to serious lights.
    over the year all top manufacturs switch there other older design to this coz on any other way they are no challenge.

    the only differences between all of this only possible design lights if you want a serious produkt are the details between them, and this detail are not small, they are huge an make heavy differences between all this lights!!!!

    lets take some examples,
    nitecore makes with the HC30 a got cheap alroud perfomer next they want try somethink other and change the basic design to the HC60 HC65 with slider more bulky and heavy..... not sold so much so back to the one and only design.

    now they make a new try to have somethink unique and make a double optic!!!!

    nitecore is long is buisness so the drivers most time have a good effizenz and basic performance.
    in dep review from it.

    in high setting with an 18650 battery 500 lumen for 3 Hours from an XP-L looks very solid.

    or turbo 900 lumen for 70 minutes.

    now make a backstep to one of the first budget lights in this class befor the SP40 was released for 20$ the wowtec A2S was 2 years ago the cheapest light in its class for 35$.

    the machining was ok but the driver not have a so nice regulations....... compare it to the nitecore.

    or the performance from a more powerfull player like a thrunite from last year.

    1000 lumen for near 2 hours.

    dont forget all of them have the half size of this outbound light!!!

    or for another example.
    Armytek"an USA company" released some years ago the wizard series and make with it a big hit.
    one of the most sold helmet/head lights on the market over the Years, great smooth beam and build like a tank with a lifetime waranty.
    in the lower pricerange they have the ELF series.

    they have also decide to add an charge port, but not the flimsy micro USB they go the way with mangetic port same like Olight does it.

    Olight and armytek offering for me the most interessting mounts to.
    Armytek a simple fast klick, 1 second to mount or remove the light from the helmet.
    or olight offering a magnetic snap in+ fix with a rubber.

    most of the top companys offering there lights with different LED setups tint and beamprofiles...... to talk about all of that will be to much but you get near anythink you want if you know what you looking for!!!!

    one of the examples.
    the light market is more and more chabging to high CRI lights, coz more and more people dont want waste there money for ulgy bluish blinding and eyehurting cool stuff so people start same cry to armxtek, so they decide again to offering again a limited high CRI super LED edition of there wizard.


    High CRI LED never will win a lumen vs energy consumtion challenge but the improvemen in pure qualitys compansates it more than that.
    for example this Nichia 144A equiped wizard.

    and one of the most important part of top the helmet lights is not the smallest possible size, its the fast switch empty to full battery option to have infinity runtime.

    thats why i never will buy lights with glued in batterys.

  175. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    Ok back in time 10 years ago...
    ...
    Cool story bro. And unmitigated BS. Take your flashlight fetish somewhere else. That form factor sucks out loud compared to the Hangover for helmet light MTB use.

  176. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Take your flashlight fetish somewhere else
    I am talking about pro helmet lights running on a 18650 battery bro.
    thats the 100$ range = zebralight and co are the natural challengers.

    and from this lights hangover is at moment in size, weight,durability and performance lightyears away.

    he called his light the smallest and most lightweight helmet light running on a 18650 on the market not me.

    and if you not understand how and why helmet lights have change over the years to smallest possible sizes than its your fail.

    i am always looking for something better and lighter in weight then Zebralight but still nothing that can challenge it on MTB helmet.

  177. #377
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    I will say that I've previously had a fetish with budget lights and flashlights, including zebralight, olight, etc. I've successfully used various flashlight form lights for helmet and bar mounts. But, I always end up coming back to dedicated bike lights of one form or another. Why? Ease of mounting, adjustment, shaped beams, and quality. That isn't to say well-known brands are free from failure. In the past month, I've had a Blackburn Countdown 1600 and a Gloworm X2 fail on me. That is the price of using the heck out of them, including crashing repeatedly.

    Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. But, I don't see the need to keep bringing up alternative flashlight/headlamp solutions in this thread. Feels a bit like beating a dead horse to me...
    baker

  178. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    To be fair one would need to know the power consumption of your setup vs the OL setup. Your lights throw a lot of light in the tree tops, the OL setup doesn't, so your setup probably blasts out more light to get the same result.
    Whether that would be a good argument to get those OL lights is a different question, especially if you like your setup.
    Wasnít trying to be fair, and quite frankly admit am comparing apples to oranges. Point was just to show how a conventional helmet/bar setup at equal color temperatures can combine beam patterns just as unnoticeably as the Trail+Hangover. KD BL2S runs about 2A (8.4V battery pack) and the BL70S I hear goes to 3A? Anyway, uses Cree XHP70.2 which supposedly gets 180lm per Watt. OP Reflector doesnít provide the smoothest beam pattern so I jerry-rigged a home brewed diffuser over the cover lens which kinda kills the throw but spreads the light out close to 180ļ. Makes for a great low beam while the unmodified BL2S provides an even spot for distance.

    And remember, a helmet light can point anywhere so if itís throwing light up into the tree tops thatís only because the wearerís gaze is directed there. A desirable feature when riding a canopied trail which might have vegetation hanging down or owls making a swoop (has happened to me several times. )

  179. #379
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    My new light came today. I placed my order back in June but I live in Germany so that added to the delivery time. Iím excited to try it out. As an engineer (mechanical) I am so onboard with what Matt is doing and am excited to use this light and expect it will not be the last Outbound light I buy.

    Along those lines. I will be leaving this thread now. I have contributed what I can and strongly feel the discourse here has been unproductive for a while now and in many case toxic.

    I wish you all well especially Matt. Thanks for the great work on the light. I plan to use it hard like all my stuff and I will be following your work and company. Just not here.

  180. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    Ok back in time 10 years ago.
    at this time Zebralight and another company start the try to make the smallest possible helmet/headlight powerd by an 18650 battery.

    ........
    Despite the page and a half of drivel, I still only see an angle head flashlight. Yes, one could use one on many methods to lash that to a helmet, but that does not make it a "pro" helmet light.

    BTW, I'm very aware of what goes into a LED light. For my preference, that does not include a battery. Makes it too heavy for a helmet and not enough runtime when pushing lots of light. Started night riding almost 20 years ago and building lights almost 10 years ago so pretty aware of what I like best.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  181. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post

    For my preference, that does not include a battery. Makes it too heavy for a helmet and not enough runtime when pushing lots of light.
    wire based lights and self contained lights are two different types.
    thechnically advanced wire based lights not exist for example on the market, you need to carry alot more batterys then it really needs adittional in the packs.

    the importand part you get in from top manufactures 1x18650 battery powerd lights, they are light 90 gramms is not heavy and on a very advanced techically level up to 200 lumen per watt effizenz rates!

    the most wire based lights what i have in mx hands to this time running all on a very low effizenz rate at ~70 lumen per watt and thats relly horrible how much weight you must carry for low light amounts and low runtimes.

    the other big advanced feature is to get with serious made 1x18650 light not only really ultralight and small lights, they are include fast battery exchange what makes infinity runtime on the very high effizenz rate.

    i am using for that reason many years only this helmet lights, infinity runtime.

    only in one use thats is no option in caving+ underwater or other problematicly extreme sports, there is the fast battery change no option, there you must calculate runtimes more in detail.


    and this thread is about 1x18650 battery powerd Helmet light, if you not iteressted on this light concepts you are in the wrong thread for you.

    i use exactly this concept for any type of sport and outdoor activitys for many many reasons.

    armytek sold for example ~1 mio of there higher prizepoint set helmet lights, there will be a reason for that.

  182. #382
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    Anyway... shipping label notice today. I imagine it will be sent tomorrow. Ordered first week of November. I imagine that's just about all of the orders at this point. Opinions to follow!

  183. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6feet10 View Post
    I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle. I just bought a sofirn SD05 because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. Only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use, too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I would understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?
    ....and in response Outbound replied:

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.

    PM me your name and order number and I'll go ahead and refund you in full if you are disappointed already without having even used the light yet.
    @6'10, When it comes to torches it is really hard to find one that meets all the criteria needed to make a good MTB helmet light. Added to that is the fact that torches ( straight torches ) are not always going to be mountable on most helmets without some DIY modifications.

    While the SD05 you bought might have some decent run times using the Cree XPH50 emitter, I have a hard time believing that it can run 2hrs using the best 18650 cell and still provide 950 lumen throughout the run time. Since you already stated that it has a somewhat narrow beam pattern you might consider buying one of the Fireflies E01's. Using the Luminus SST-40 ( 5700K ) emitter it supplies excellent throw as well as a wide beam pattern due to the TIR optic is uses. I haven't been able to test the run time in the 1K lumen mode ( because of the seasonal weather ) but I suspect it will provide a bright output for at least 50 minutes using the best 18650's. Alternate between the 1K and 500 lumen mode and it should last on one cell much longer. When you are using something that is only using one cell you just don't run it on full output all the time because if you do the output is either going to drop because of thermal protection circuitry / a timed cutoff or simply because of the drop in voltage in the cell. ( P.S. The E01 will also run with a 21700 cell which of course means it can provide longer run times if you use the bigger cells )

    @Outbound; The advantage of the Hangover from what I have gathered from the people who have bought one is that the lamp has a very usable beam pattern. Seems there are mixed reviews based on expectations that the lamp was going to run on full output for 2 whole hrs. That's unfortunate but should of been expected as many people are unfamiliar with lamps ( or torches ) that are only using one 18650 cell. While I don't think I would of liked the auto drop-down feature I don't think it would have bothered me since I already know enough about lamps that use a non-replaceable 18650 cell. Using a single cell lamp you must use the lower outputs if you want extended run times.

    Going forward I don't think you need to market a two cell lamp. It would be better to retool the current lamp so that the user can replace the battery while in the field. The advantage of using a good torch is that the user can replace the cell at any time if the output starts to wane. Not all torches have narrow beam patterns. Personally I've found a couple that provide both throw and beam width that are quite usable when MTB'n. The downside to buying torches is that you really don't know what kind of beam pattern you will get until you actual have it in your hands. If the beam pattern is too narrow you have throw but also lack of peripheral illumination. If the beam pattern is too wide you end up with too much close-in reflective feedback, a general lack of throw on lower outputs which in turn pretty much makes for a miserable helmet lamp.

    Once again my advice is to make the current Hangover more usable by making the battery serviceable in the field. Next but not least of all, make the modes "user programmable" so the user gets to set the outputs on the modes so they get both output and run time that they like. Do these things and you will likely double your sales. If you were to make the kind of changes I suggested I would not hesitate to buy one myself.

  184. #384
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    I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.

  185. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.
    I can't imagine having a 2, or especially 3, cell light on my helmet for bikepacking...then again, I have a screwed up neck from crashing on my face in Fruita 17 years ago.
    baker

  186. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.
    You probably donít wear the fanny pack I see in your vids when bikepacking? If you did, a charger pack would give even longer output. Once the temps here warm up from the single digits I will test mine out and report back. I am not a very tech savvy guy, but wouldnít it also charge your GoPros if needed? I know people want wireless, but I do not want more weight on my neck, especially on longer rides.

  187. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Next but not least of all, make the modes "user programmable" so the user gets to set the outputs on the modes so they get both output and run time that they like.
    YES! This!. And, I'd add-- add a mode memory so that the light turns back on in the mode you left it in.

  188. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    ......and this thread is about 1x18650 battery powerd Helmet light,......
    Exactly. This is why you have been asked to quit posting about flashlights. Helmet light for MTB riding and a flashlight are not the same thing.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I can't imagine having a 2, or especially 3, cell light on my helmet for bikepacking...then again, I have a screwed up neck from crashing on my face in Fruita 17 years ago.
    ....which is exactly why I recommend that a newer version allow for cell swap-out. When it comes to helmet lights "weight" is everything. Better to carry extra cells in a pocket or pack and swap-out when the output wanes then bare the weight of carrying the extra cells on your head / neck. As a general rule of thumb best to carry one 18650 for every hour you think you might be riding. However, those of us that are used to using a torch or another single cell lamp and know how to be stingy with the outputs can usually get more than an hour of run time out of a single cell. This means of course that you have to change to more efficient outputs more often than if you were using a normal multi-cell lamp. Now if you have the option and don't mind changing cells every hour or so than you can still use the brighter modes for longer periods as long as the lamp or torch doesn't over heat.

  190. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ....which is exactly why I recommend that a newer version allow for cell swap-out. When it comes to helmet lights "weight" is everything. Better to carry extra cells in a pocket or pack and swap-out when the output wanes then bare the weight of carrying the extra cells on your head / neck. As a general rule of thumb best to carry one 18650 for every hour you think you might be riding...
    And for the 22g difference 21700 should at least be an option.

    It wouldn't take much to make it fit.
    Would a 125g Hangover be too heavy? I think not.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----img_20191213_202539.jpg

  191. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    i dont understand about what you talk, i am talking about helmet lights an the leading companies in this buisness.
    i start using 10 years ago helmet lights from profesionall manufacturs.
    and i never stop looking all the time for smaller sized and thechnically improved performances.

    an the way to make it smallest in size is no secret.

    Outbound offering a 2 times bigger one with alot of technical downsides, not only low output and bad runtimes or weak building that it bracks easy in its parts.

    another bad thing about this light, how to hell i can mount this think if i dont have any gopro stuff?
    if i see it right, if you not have go pro counterparts on your helmet no way to get it on any way on your helmet.

    next doenside about this curious construction, if i try to get any go pro stuf and mount it on helmet it sticks out, then the light with the sticking out mount on the helmet....

    how much this light sticks out from your helmet in totally from hekmet surface to the outer point of the light 15 cm?
    it stuck in branches all the time on a night ride?

    is there a way to mount it tight to the helmet?

    or is it ok that all the time about the sticking out all the time branches beat against it.......
    Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.
    Outbound Lighting Hangover --- Discussion ----hangoverhelmet.jpg

  192. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    ....another bad thing about this light, how to hell i can mount this think if i dont have any gopro stuff?
    if i see it right, if you not have go pro counterparts on your helmet no way to get it on any way on your helmet.

    next doenside about this curious construction, if i try to get any go pro stuf and mount it on helmet it sticks out, then the light with the sticking out mount on the helmet....

    how much this light sticks out from your helmet in totally from hekmet surface to the outer point of the light 15 cm?
    it stuck in branches all the time on a night ride?

    is there a way to mount it tight to the helmet?

    or is it ok that all the time about the sticking out all the time branches beat against it.......
    What you are saying here about how flush a lamp can mount to a helmet is true of almost any helmet bike light / mounting system so I don't know why you are pointing this out as something negative about the OB.
    I'm going to assume that the OB lamp comes with some type of GoPro mounting strap to be used on your helmet. If not you can buy them online for relatively cheap. How flush it will be on your helmet will depend on the helmet you own.

    I've used many types of helmet mounts in my day including the old Magicshine mounts setup directly on top of the helmet which really set the light up high off the helmet. Not the perfect solution but worked. Not everyone rides trails that have low tree branches brushing up against the helmet light. Having a lamp that is mounted more flush with the helmet is always going to be preferred but not all mounts are going to work the same way on every type of helmet. That's just the way it is so to bring this up as a critique against using an OB lamp is just BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    ....how much this light sticks out from your helmet in totally from hekmet surface to the outer point of the light 15 cm?
    it stuck in branches all the time on a night ride?
    .
    ....15cm !!.........Fifteen F'n CM!.........Dude, that's like BS to the 10th power! I've never seen any lamp / mounting system that sat a lamp that high off the helmet. ( Do I need to post a photo of what that would look like?....really! )

  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for sharing that picture. I had a number of reasons for being attracted to and ordering one of these lights and the sleek integration with the Blendr mount for my Bontrager helmet was fairly high on the list. Looks great!

  194. #394
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    @lostplaces:

    There's no questioning your technical ability with regard to battery life, runtimes and optical throw. Your contributions in other threads are really good and constructive.

    In this thread, you had your say earlier and in some ways I see you as vindicated, the runtime is less than initially promised as you said it would be BUT Outbound has tried to address the concerns here quite openly with people who bought the light.

    Now your posts are coming across as "argumentative just for the sake of arguing" and it's not helping the thread.

    i'm seeing reports from other contributors to this post that your contribution is NOT helpful, and I have to agree with them.

    Respectfully, so people who own the light can help each other work with each other in this thread unless it's constructive help (which I know you can give) please quit the bashing.

  195. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    ....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.

    Thanks.

  196. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    lostplacesí post about how awkward it is to mount this light to a helmet reminds me of those infomercials with people comically failing to use a spatula, stabbing at eggs and pancakes like they have no joints in their arms.

  197. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.

    Thanks.
    Thats a Bontrager Blaze

    https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/e...lorCode=orange

  198. #398
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    Just for the sake of passing along useful info to clarify misinformation that our well-fed troll has vomited into this thread, the beam pattern lights up low hanging branches perfectly, both above ones head and in the near periphery. I have a lot of low branches where I ride and my first night ride EVER was with the Hangover. I was perfectly at ease riding my woods at night with it and was able to duck all the branches that were weighed down by a glaze of ice with no problems. My helmet, a Leatt DBX 2.0 allows for the supplied mount to be used, and the light doesnít stick up much at all. I canít wait to ride with the charge pack this weekend and see how the combo works together.

  199. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Thanks, and thanks Velodonata for the pic. Thatís a slick setup. I might reevaluate my TLD devotion. Too bad I have a brand-new A2. Bell helmets also have an integrated GoPro Mount, but they donít fit me well.

  200. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Awesome. Thanks for the info. Looks like the piece on top for the light is an add on piece also from bontrager. Is that correct? Now just need to find someplace to try it on.

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