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  1. #601
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    Outbound, I apologize for the derisive tone of some of my above "questions". Thank you for not taking insults from them.

  2. #602
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    oops, mistake, deleted
    Last edited by abvgdee; 07-17-2018 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #603
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    Had another nice long ride with the road version Sunday night. Not too many surprises with this light for me since I've got a good amount of hours of use with it but I did find my riding buddy's reaction to it interesting. George is a mechanic at a lbs and has always run Niteriders (1500 and 1000 pro, OLED 800 Lumina), so typical medium width round beam than creates a hot spot in whatever light I've ever taken on a ride with him. I usually run neutral white lights which admittedly look yellow/dim when combined with cool white lights like the Niteriders he uses so I don't think he's normally very impressed with what I'm running but not so with the OL road version. I think he was paying closer attention because he liked the fact that the light was US made + the tint of the OL was closer to his Niteriders + the wide smooth beam of the OL road lighthead equalled a very impressed George (and it's hard to tell with him). At one point we were riding along a unlit canal bank and I covered my light with my hand and I was even surprised how much visibility was lost with only his lights left running. Even beam coverage works really well!
    Mole

  4. #604
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    I do the same thing while riding with our older MS lights. Once you've gotten used to the OL light, covering it up has a jarring effect. A week or two ago I was descending one of our local twisty roads with the OL road version on my wife's bike, and it was the most comfortable nighttime descent of that road I've experienced, by a margin, and the light wasn't even on my bike.

    -Jeremy

  5. #605
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    Glad seeing the light!

    We had a similar reaction when launching the lightbars I had designed for another company. I focused on an even beam width with a rectangular beam pattern and soft falloffs, forgoing high peak numbers and big lumens. In head-to-head wall shot tests the "other" bars would "win" but once people used the optics I designed on the road, and more importantly in races it became more clear what I had intended. Right now our lightbars are on half the rally cars in the US in less than a year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E1f7G-Ha4A

    Most lights were intense circular spots just like a lot of bike lights. So teams would have 4-5 of these aimed slightly off and would see 4 or 5 different hotspots while sliding through the corners. Instead now it's just a wide even wall of light that makes driving (and riding) at night a lot more comfortable.

    New straps arrive Monday, and hope to get them out to everyone ASAP. Then I can start sending these lights out to reviewers and influencers. Last thing I wanted was to send a light out for review and have that 8% chance that it'd break. Would be disastrous!

  6. #606
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    Thought some of you guys might find this interesting. I put together a "How It's Made" page on the site showing the construction of the light.

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/how-its-made/

  7. #607
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    That was AWESOME!
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    That was AWESOME!
    Thanks! Took a while to shoot in the whitebox, but I hope can show exactly what goes into each of these lights.

  9. #609
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    @Outbound; People are going to like that page that explains "How it is made". You need to add that link to your signature ( at the bottom of your posts )

  10. #610
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    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!
    Daylight is Gloworms version of cool white and similar in tint to the Outbound lights. X2 works well for spotting surprises around up coming corners and illuminating trail features beyond the reach of the Outbound trail.
    Mole

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!
    If you are considering getting two lights, might I suggest the downhill package? It's the road version for your head, trail version for the bars, extension cord, two batteries, two chargers, gopro mounts, gopro helmet mount and the bar mounts. They work together amazingly well.

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/pro...in-bike-light/

    This video (starts around the 6 minute mark) shows how the light carpets in front blend together seamlessly, along with the extra punch of the road reflector to make for a pretty awesome riding experience.

    https://youtu.be/IBcJUYLPYSo?t=6m4s

    Plus cheaper than buying an X2 and a trail separately.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    If you are considering getting two lights, might I suggest the downhill package?
    I am considering 2 lights, but thinking about getting one now and one later in the year. I have thought about downhill package, but I was leaning towards a smaller profile light for my helmet. Side note: I had been researching lights for about 3 months and was pretty unhappy with the options available at certain price points. I was just about ready to DIY something because I wanted some serious light so I could see down the road, but also width so I could see what was around me. By complete accident I came across this thread. I eagerly read through every post from the beginning and was so happy to find what I was looking for! I just want to say thank you for creating this light at a price I think is completely reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Daylight is Gloworms version of cool white and similar in tint to the Outbound lights. X2 works well for spotting surprises around up coming corners and illuminating trail features beyond the reach of the Outbound trail.
    Mole
    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?
    I got my X2 back from Action Led, I sent it off to have the NW emitters swapped for the Daylight versions, it was a fast and very reasonable service. It is indeed now a much better match for the OL Trail, and they go together nicely. I am sure the OL Road and Trail would also be an excellent combo, but I think having the wireless bar mounted remote for the X2 on the helmet seals the deal for me.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post


    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?
    I'm actually not sure if the Alpha (and CX Urban) match the other Gloworm lights since these 2 have different emitters (XP-G3) but would think they're pretty close (I own a Alpha but it's NW). Alpha would work fine with a Outbound trail. Besides being less expensive than the X2 the Alpha is also a little smaller (I can't even tell when its on my helmet) plus only requires about 60% of the current draw of an X2 to produce similar throw (narrower beam). Main advantage of the X2 is the wireless remote switch. Both lights are very good throwers and if you need more there's always the XS.
    Mole

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Both lights are very good throwers and if you need more there's always the XS.
    Mole
    Great info. Really appreciate it. I was looking at the Gloworm website as well as action-led. It seems that the color option (Daylight/Neutral White) is only offered by action-led. The Gloworm website does not indicate what the color is... so I'm not sure what I would be getting there. Is this a service that action-led provides that you can't get from Gloworm?

  17. #617
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    Gloworm standard is dailight tint. Only action lights rework the leds to a second option.
    I send you a pm with some additional info.

  18. #618
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    Had a nice group ride the other night, letting everyone demo the lights, and a few people who had already been using the lights for a long time.

    Going to have another group ride in the STL area (Lost Valley) next sunday (August 5th) at 8pm where anyone interested can demo any of the light setups we have.

  19. #619
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    Just went on a brief suburban road ride (neighborhood streets with streetlights). Comments:

    1. Good color temperature and rendition.

    2. Generally even "carpet" of light in front of bike.

    3. Can still see some stripes of uneven light within the beam pattern, which means when I rock the handlebars back and forth they show up. Not as bad as a hot spot that moves back and forth, but still... Can the silicone diffuser be improved further to make the light more even?

    4. Overall the beam pattern is good, but I would have preferred a lump of light far forwards and center like I assumed from the simulation plots.
    I attached a MS paint drawing to show what I mean. The light blue diagram is what the OL road beam pattern feels like, and the green is what I prefer. Both these patterns have the same "beam angle" as defined by the two sloped lines on each side.
    Name:  beampattern.png
Views: 1877
Size:  3.5 KB

    5.Dam, this takes a long time to charge. I have a battery charger with customizable settings for use with RC car batteries. What is the connector on this battery, and what settings should I use to charge this?

    6.Setting #3 and #4 are nearly the same brightness

    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.

    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Just went on a brief suburban road ride (neighborhood streets with streetlights). Comments:

    1. Good color temperature and rendition.

    2. Generally even "carpet" of light in front of bike.

    3. Can still see some stripes of uneven light within the beam pattern, which means when I rock the handlebars back and forth they show up. Not as bad as a hot spot that moves back and forth, but still... Can the silicone diffuser be improved further to make the light more even?

    4. Overall the beam pattern is good, but I would have preferred a lump of light far forwards and center like I assumed from the simulation plots.
    I attached a MS paint drawing to show what I mean. The light blue diagram is what the OL road beam pattern feels like, and the green is what I prefer. Both these patterns have the same "beam angle" as defined by the two sloped lines on each side.
    Name:  beampattern.png
Views: 1877
Size:  3.5 KB

    5.Dam, this takes a long time to charge. I have a battery charger with customizable settings for use with RC car batteries. What is the connector on this battery, and what settings should I use to charge this?

    6.Setting #3 and #4 are nearly the same brightness

    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.

    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.
    3. Working with the supplier to try and improve the lenses in future runs. We are always going to keep on trying to improve on all aspects of the light.

    4. Are you using the trail or the road?

    5. Standard DC5521 connector. Should take about 4.5-5 hours to charge from completely empty.

    6. Indeed, almost no perceivable change from high to medium-high. However there is indeed a small current change. Got a bit happy-go-lucky with the number of settings we wanted. Future lights are probably going to just have the Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low settings, no more in-between.

    8. Your light should have come with a small GoPro adapter that can be swapped out with an M3 hex tool. Then have the options for the hundreds of different gopro tube mounts out there. The OEM GoPro stuff is quite good, though pricey.

    11. This was a compromise. I agree with you, but then the light would be sitting almost 3-4" above the bar, looking quite goofy, and making mounting a little harder. So the focus on lightweightness was the priority.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post

    4. Are you using the trail or the road?
    road

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.
    Luckily I havn't had any movement issues with the stock strap but I do prefer the Gopro mount. Here's a picture of my road version using a Gloworm QR bar mount. Curious what diameter bar your using the strap mount on?

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----005.jpg


    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.
    Looking forward to what you think after you ride your light in these conditions. I was disapointed with how low actual production models max. lux numbers were compared to the prototypes but in actual use have been very happy with the lights performance.
    Mole

  23. #623
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    Had a chance to do rural (no streetlights) road riding. For those of u in Nor-Cal, it was Old La Honda road, a popular hill-climb for roadies.

    The first thing I noticed was that this light does not have that much forwards throw unless you are willing to raise it a few degrees and start to blind oncoming traffic. But at least the throw seems good now. I still think this light would benefit from throwing a bit more light out at the horizon. The good thing is that the "light carpet" patch is spread out enough that there is not a hot spot in front of you that blows out the rest of your night vision.

    This first pic is along an open straight road. The top image is when I set the light just high enough that it will illuminate an oncoming car's license plate, but not the driver. The middle image is when I raise the light more, and you can now see that the road signs are glowing, and the white bike lane line is illuminated much further. Note that the "light carpet" patch isn't really any dimmer, but the throw is much better. Third image is the LED headlights from my car. It has sharp cutoff, very even illumination, and even the left side of the road is lit up. (click image for full size)

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----open_road.jpg

    Next set of images is when I am actually in the hills with trees. BTW, I like how the light leaks a bit upwards so I can see what is overhead. Again, notice how much better the throw is when I aim the light higher, but also see how much higher that pole is illuminated, so worse for oncoming traffic.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----closed_road.jpg

    There is still a mild annoyance due to the slight striping in the light patch when I sway the handlebars back and forth, but it is less annoying than seeing the side cutoff of the light sway around. However, on my way up, I got passed by another cyclist with some cheapo light with a dim, blue, round, narrow spot waving around back and forth. (He only passed me because his light was lighter) My light was totally better.

    Another thing I noticed was that due to the shape of the beam, I don't have enough light in the upper left corner. So what this means is that I can't take left turns at full speed because I simply can't see. For some reason, right turns are less of a problem, maybe because I ride on the right side of the road? Now I think what might be a good idea is to maybe have an asymmetrical beam that throws a little more light to the upper left, sort of like how my car headlight does. Despite what I said in my last post where I wanted the beam pattern to be more "pointy" in the front, now I want it to illuminate the horizon further to the sides. And maybe make the light on the right side a little bit dimmer (while increasing the angle at the same time) because you don't need to illuminate close objects so much.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----left_turn.jpg

    Additional comments:
    Light color temperature and rendering is still very natural and good.
    Maybe have a little lever that can toggle the light up and down a few degrees.
    Now that I think about it, levels 4, 3, and even 2 are nearly the same brightness.
    What's the max amps I can charge this at, if I want to charge it quickly? And what type of Lithium is it, so I know the final voltage to aim for?

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Had a chance to do rural (no streetlights) road riding. For those of u in Nor-Cal, it was Old La Honda road, a popular hill-climb for roadies.

    The first thing I noticed was that this light does not have that much forwards throw unless you are willing to raise it a few degrees and start to blind oncoming traffic. But at least the throw seems good now. I still think this light would benefit from throwing a bit more light out at the horizon. The good thing is that the "light carpet" patch is spread out enough that there is not a hot spot in front of you that blows out the rest of your night vision.
    Nice post beanbag!! I know what you mean about the difference in beam angle adjustment for effective cutoff vs. max throw. For riding on roads I've only used mine in town where speeds are relative low and adjusting for cutoff works fine for me in that application but I also prefer the road version (compared to the trail) for the trails I ride and always adjust up a few degrees for that. Using the Gloworm mount w/Gopro adapter (picture in my last post) makes on-the-fly adjusting a bit easier.

    Questions about your beam shots:

    1) Were they all taken in the highest/brightest mode?

    2) Was the car beam in low or high? Would you consider your cars lights performance similar to most (noticed picture labeled Golf R which is the "high performance model" and I'm not sure if it's equipped with upgraded lights)?

    Now that I think about it, levels 4, 3, and even 2 are nearly the same brightness.
    I always run the road version at the second lowest level. Current draw on this light is a bit high for its power output and low battery protection (so you don't run out of light suddenly) kicks in when the fuel gauge drops to 3 LED"s. Won't allow access to any higher settings after that, good to know if you do longer rides.
    Mole

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Despite what I said...
    I guess any mega-rocket-scientist would also be confused if asked to do what you tried to do ó to express a general function of 2 variables (real angular distribution) as a function of only 1 (as you drew). I heard experts hate to be confused, so that's probably why they use "wall" shot images (what's the proper name BTW?).

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    1) Were they all taken in the highest/brightest mode?

    2) Was the car beam in low or high? Would you consider your cars lights performance similar to most (noticed picture labeled Golf R which is the "high performance model" and I'm not sure if it's equipped with upgraded lights)?
    1) I forgot. Probably #3 setting
    2) regular low beam. It's the first year that VW had LED headlights on this car. I think they are pretty good, but I don't know how good they are relative to other cars.

  27. #627
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    Gotta remember with LED headlights on cars, they are often multiple segments, large reflectors, weigh 15 pounds, and roughly a combined 5000-6000 lumens for both left and right headlights. Better comparison would be to cover up one of the headlights. Most modern headlights are designed to work in pairs, where the left one illuminates more of the left side of the road, and the right vice versa.

  28. #628
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    Can anyone comment how these lights compare to Light & Motionsís Seca lineup?

  29. #629
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    This is a dumb question, but Iíd like to charge these batteries in my vehicle. Can anyone recommend a car charger with dual outputs to charge 2 simultaneously? I could use a cigarette lighter pigtail and get 2 chargers I suppose...

  30. #630
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    You realize car chargers take quite a long time to charge these style battery packs? A charger to charge quickly doubled up on a power outlet may very possibly overload the circuit. If you have 2 outlets I would try to aim that way. Using each on separately.

    My way of dealing with it is power inverter in my rear power outlet. Used it to charge whatever including my ryobi battery packs for my cordless tools when doing trail days.

    I've used an RC charger in the past too but for some odd reason the cheap inverter is more efficient than the not so cheap charger.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  31. #631
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    Ordering pair of focal series (trail/road) without battery

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I've been working on as I prepare for this kickstarter campaign.


    I was missed the party. I'm having interest in night riding in last 3 month, so I wasnít have many experienced so far.


    Regarding with your lights, it's possible to order a set both road and trail version without battery pack send to Indonesia? My country is always restricted with battery only packages (except device with self-containing battery), and all my order including with battery pack is always returned to seller and my order was cancelled. In the end I'm must build my own pack using Chinese battery box. That's why most my bike light is self-contained dual emitters unit because of these limitation.


    I'm living in Eastern Asian region which is quite difficult to get trusted west branded light because no reseller here, ordering directly cost too much shipping and heavy tax especially packages with up to $50 USD value.


    Due all those inconvenience, I have no choice using Chinese brands but it quite a mix of bag. But at least some of reputable Chinese lights are quite good.




    Considered I'm still noob in this field, here some light history I've been used to explain why I'm need at least perfect light solution to suit in my taste.


    1) My first light was Ravemen PR1200 ($100 USD). It was good and working well so far. But in struggle penetrating heavy rain / heavy fog. Honestly I'm haven't spend light more than $100 each unit (Ravemen PR1200 is the most expensive in my collection) but probably I want adding secondary PR1200 in future to run dual/pair PR1200 setup. I'm like the color temprature which is less glare on trail even at maximum brightness. My only complaint is no fully operation via remote, because button on remote only hardwired to changing brightness button (cannot switch mountain/road mode on the fly)


    2) Got a pair faked Solarstorm X3 with triple XML T6 (total was $18 only!) and...hell crap, using awhile for at least temporary complement with existing Ravemen PR1200. Color temperature isn't match but I have no choice.


    3) Got a pair of true Solarstorm X2 with CREE XM-L2 emitters (was $26 at that time ordering). Super bright, but just hotspot. Also flickering PWM, interference with my analog RF wireless cateye computer. Well, at least it can penetrate fog stronger than Ravemen PR1200.


    4) Order a pair Nitenumen X8 for $45 USD each, $90 in total. I have read in in budget light forum features and looks great so I'm ordered. Unfortunately, it seems not as good Iím expected. Claimed 1800 lumens but Solarstorm X2 / Ravemen PR1200 still brighter than that. The good only in good huge LG battery, so itís shine longer than my Ravemen PR1200 in highest settings. Its looks this light are quite underpowered since it have XM-L2 it should at least perform like non self-contained siblings Solarstorm X2. Not causing interfere with my analog RF wireless bike computer.


    5) KDLitker BL-70S for $42, this time just buy one, not pair because of their size (and already equipped with high power XHP 70.2). One of my favorite because it provides me quite warm temperature, Iím choose 4000K color and illuminate trail like a sun, because it more natural for my eyes seeing periphery with sunset / sunrise like color. The worst is switching mode too fast activate curse blinding strobeÖIím wonder why strobe mode should be activate by double clickÖuggh. This one is quite powerful to penetrating thick fog.


    6) Purchase pair of Gachiron V9D-1600, ($55 each, $110 in total. Everything goods, beam pattern have nice flood but still have enough throw, I can say this is jack of all trade of beam pattern. UI is behave similarly like Ravemen PR1200, smooth/stepless mode changing, fully wired remote operation (where Ravemen PR1200 doesnít), can using wired remote in rain without reduce water ingress risk, and hidden blinding eyes strobe mode. Brightness is equal with Ravemen PR1200 and all mode is usable (no useless eco mode). So Iím quite pleased with beam performance. But it have quite fatal shortcomings in my opinion, since it consist of two piece body construction, metal body of this lamp is very small, the rest just plain plastic, make it prone to overheat. Iíve test at speed which most lamp should cool (about 50-56km/h by drafting big trucks for about 2 km), It still quite hot!! Other lamp I have usually still cool at maximum brightness at least when Iím pushed to 40km/h.


    As stated above, thereís just a bunch light I have and tested so far. No one is perfect. Still finding suitable setup for my taste, and thatís why Iím found your focal series and interest to get one. I'm also fan of pair setup, it's provides me longer time on dark trail because low/medium output from double separate beam are brighter than low/medium with single headlight.


    TLDR, So this is my question,


    1) Is possible to purchase headlight unit only? (without battery/charger) Because I donít find option to choose headlight only in your store.


    2) Its have similar Magicshine / Solarstorm like battery plug setup? From Iím read from this thread Iím assume it should have common DC plug found in many common battery packs (just to make sure) because of my country lithium battery restriction law.


    3 I'm know this is shameful, but it possible to declare value lower than $50 when ship put? As you know, all my bike are came from China and they always gave me low price declaration for all these lamp, so they can delivered to me without being stuck on custom.






    Sorry for spamming to much for my first post, has been lurker since 2012 but tempted with your focal series so I create account to get in touch. (pardon for grammar error because English is not my native)


    Regards
    Last edited by yurc; 08-10-2018 at 12:15 AM. Reason: fixing some typo and add some missing information

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    You realize car chargers take quite a long time to charge these style battery packs? A charger to charge quickly doubled up on a power outlet may very possibly overload the circuit. If you have 2 outlets I would try to aim that way. Using each on separately.

    My way of dealing with it is power inverter in my rear power outlet. Used it to charge whatever including my ryobi battery packs for my cordless tools when doing trail days.

    I've used an RC charger in the past too but for some odd reason the cheap inverter is more efficient than the not so cheap charger.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I have a car outlet in the back thatís always on. It supports a pretty gnarly USB-C charger that I can power battery banks up pretty fast.
    The included AC adapters are pretty slow, Iíd rather skip an inverter as my AC outlet isnít in the cargo area where I want to store my lights. I was looking on amazon and just didnít see many car chargers with this plug unless I missed something. Iím at work for 10-12 hrs so the battery packs would have tons of time to charge.

  33. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurc View Post
    .........

    PM'ed you!

  34. #634
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    Regarding the car charging, I know some newer cars are coming with some really high amperage charging ports. Heck it's even a rated item on car & driver in depth reviews (decent is 1A, great is 2A). I've been surprised how quick my phone charges using a USB port in my truck, but it's also a 2A one I believe.

  35. #635
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    Iím just going to run an inverter and 2x2A AC chargers as the only cigarette car chargers are all 1A. Should be great!

  36. #636
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    Third party reviewers starting to get some lights for testinggggg.

    OUTBOUND LIGHTING FOCAL SERIES ROAD LIGHT

    The unit performed flawlessly. It is simple to use and maintain. If you are training with a GPS head unit, you will probably need to put your head unit in your jersey pocketÖthatís really the only negative to this unit. It is priced below its competitorsí comparable units and is a great value. Itís also lightweight at 100g (3.53 oz.) headlight or 416g (14.67 oz.) for the complete system. This latest entry into the headlight arena deserves a full 5/5 stars from us!

  37. #637
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    Been running the downhill package on quick hour rides before work in the morning for the last week or so. Everything is working out pretty good, overheated 1 light once though. I turned it off about 2 minutes after stopping and it took a minute before it cooled down enough to turn back on. Not that big of a deal, I figured it was in a thermal protection mode although I couldnít see the lights as it was helmet mounted. I continue to be impressed by the road/trail combo.
    Honestly, the trail just doesnít light up the trail as much as Iíd like by itself. It gives me a nice fill but the amount of light on the trail is too dim for me to use alone. But, toss the road on the helmet and itís game over! Light for days with a nice even fill directly in front of you.
    Iím relatively inexperienced at night riding, and I worry about judging heights of trail features (rocks/roots/holes). I do get shadows on the features with this setup and thatís a good indicator I can use to tell me if thereís any ďreal heightĒ behind something.
    Overall I love it. The performance and quality of all the components for the cost is great.

  38. #638
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    I havenít had a chance to use my trail lamp yet. Iím a little concerned about the amount of throw for my conditions, which are Montana mid-elevation Ponderosa forests and sage meadows - not dense forest. But I usually do only 2-3 night rides a year with my trail bike. Most of my night riding is over snow on the fatbike, with lower speeds and higher albedo landscape.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Been running the downhill package on quick hour rides before work in the morning for the last week or so. Everything is working out pretty good, overheated 1 light once though. I turned it off about 2 minutes after stopping and it took a minute before it cooled down enough to turn back on. Not that big of a deal, I figured it was in a thermal protection mode although I couldnít see the lights as it was helmet mounted. I continue to be impressed by the road/trail combo.
    Honestly, the trail just doesnít light up the trail as much as Iíd like by itself. It gives me a nice fill but the amount of light on the trail is too dim for me to use alone. But, toss the road on the helmet and itís game over! Light for days with a nice even fill directly in front of you.
    Iím relatively inexperienced at night riding, and I worry about judging heights of trail features (rocks/roots/holes). I do get shadows on the features with this setup and thatís a good indicator I can use to tell me if thereís any ďreal heightĒ behind something.
    Overall I love it. The performance and quality of all the components for the cost is great.
    Try mounting the Road on the bar but aimed high (along with the Trail). The two complement each other extremely well. I rarely using my helmet light anymore, except on faster downhills.

  40. #640
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series ---- Discussion ----

    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Try mounting the Road on the bar but aimed high (along with the Trail). The two complement each other extremely well. I rarely using my helmet light anymore, except on faster downhills.
    Iím usually climbing rocky singletrack next to a wall and the road makes ďhot spotsĒ on the wall when I bar mount the road. The trail/road bar/helmet combo works great for me. I think it would work great for everyone who is willing to shell out the $$.

  41. #641
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    Did u send out the updated straps yet?

  42. #642
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    Yurc - Companies get fined out of existence and people go to jail for undervaluing goods for export. I don't like paying Duty and VAT anymore than anyone else, but I'm not going to ask someone else to put their butt on the line so I can save a few bucks, and I'm certainly not going to ask that in an open public forum.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  43. #643
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    Hey guys, not much to report here except I am starting to gear up for our second production run. Making some minor improvements to help speed up the assembly time, nothing much with the core functions of the product.

    Some of you may know, I quit my comfortable full time job as an optical design engineer about 3 weeks ago to focus 100% on Outbound Lighting. So far been a great move. Being able to focus on the business is showing. I spent about a week revamping the website for better mobile performance and to clean things up on the desktop side, be sure to check it out!

    www.outboundlighting.com

    Other "big" news is that I have started development on a single-cell internal battery light to compete with the Ion's, Luminas, and a few others. This is going to be another 6-8 months until production ready, so wouldn't get too excited just yet. Aiming for extreme lightweightness, a properly shaped beam pattern with the integrated light carpet. Won't be nearly as wide as the trail version, but somewhere in between the road and Trail.

    My intent is for it to be a great single light for relaxed trail riding but a perfect helmet light compliment to the trail version. Won't be as powerful or long lasting as the road version on the helmet.

    Will be looking to integrate some cool materials and an extremely high build quality. Whether this will end up on Kickstarter again or not is yet to be seen. Will have to weigh the benefits/cons.

  44. #644
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    Sadly I have not used my lights yet [hangs head in shame]. However, did I see in one of your posts here that you were sending out new straps because there was a problem with the original ones? I never got any package or email about this. Can you update me and refresh my memory about any strap problems please?

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    Sadly I have not used my lights yet [hangs head in shame]. However, did I see in one of your posts here that you were sending out new straps because there was a problem with the original ones? I never got any package or email about this. Can you update me and refresh my memory about any strap problems please?
    You aren't wrong. I've admittedly been terrible about getting these straps out. My shipping software was throwing a fit when trying to send out warranty stuff. It is my top priority on getting all that squared away today and shipped out.

  46. #646
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    Okay, thanks for the update.

  47. #647
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    Replacement straps came in the mail today. Thanks Outbound!
    Mole

  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Replacement straps came in the mail today. Thanks Outbound!
    Mole
    I appreciate you guys keeping on me about it! Like I mentioned, I was being terrible about taking the 6 or so hours it took to pack, label and get them out. Been insanely busy.

  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Other "big" news is that I have started development on a single-cell internal battery light to compete with the Ion's, Luminas, and a few others. This is going to be another 6-8 months until production ready, so wouldn't get too excited just yet. Aiming for extreme lightweightness, a properly shaped beam pattern with the integrated light carpet. Won't be nearly as wide as the trail version, but somewhere in between the road and Trail.

    My intent is for it to be a great single light for relaxed trail riding but a perfect helmet light compliment to the trail version. Won't be as powerful or long lasting as the road version on the helmet.

    Will be looking to integrate some cool materials and an extremely high build quality. Whether this will end up on Kickstarter again or not is yet to be seen. Will have to weigh the benefits/cons.
    Ahh I'm just in the market for a new helmet light :-) My wish would be something like the Exposure Joystick, but with removable battery so you can change it out on the trail. One and a half hours runtime just doesn't cut it, but a one minute pitstop to change battery would be a bearable price to pay for light weight, no wires and decent output. Being a helmet light I would look for more throw and less width in the light. A simple remote control to go with that and a fool proof way to fix it to most helmets and you have a winner. In my book at least ;-)

    Thinking about it, I kind of like how the Lumonite Compass can be mounted because it allows a low profile and less risk to get stuck in branches etc.

    LUMONITE¬ģ Compass, 1238 lm 999kr - I lager - VALOSTORE.SE

  50. #650
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    Great suggestions! I've been looking into how to design a removable battery pack since that'd be on my wish list as well. Challenges come with cost, complexity of the tooling and charging. However it would open up some interesting configurations such as the running light like you linked.

    This is your chance guys to put together a wish list! Can't promise I'll be able to integrate everything due to either cost constraints or simply the laws of physics (sorry no 3000 lumen, 4 hour runtime on a single battery ).

    I am aiming to potentially have a high low if I can get a proper cutoff beam pattern integrated nicely. I don't want to do these fake ones that end up being blobs. Nor extremely inefficient versions that waste a lot of lumens through an aspherical lens or shields. No promises though!

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Great suggestions! I've been looking into how to design a removable battery pack since that'd be on my wish list as well.
    Cool! It doesn't have to be a proper "pack", just being able to swap 18650 batteries would be good enough.

  52. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolekl View Post
    Cool! It doesn't have to be a proper "pack", just being able to swap 18650 batteries would be good enough.
    Yea would be nice. I've always had in my mind to have something of GoPro quality, where the user doesn't even have to see an 18650. I know the guys on here who like to tweak endlessly and add more and more batteries might not be a fan, but I am thinking more broadly of the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yea would be nice. I've always had in my mind to have something of GoPro quality, where the user doesn't even have to see an 18650. I know the guys on here who like to tweak endlessly and add more and more batteries might not be a fan, but I am thinking more broadly of the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.
    Some Serfas models do this and it looks pretty nice for a consumer level user. The Serfas design is pretty recognizable as an 18650. It has a nice over-molded body that threads into the light body and seals with an o-ring. Connections are nicely recessed so carrying one in a pocket or pack would present little opportunity for a short to occur.

    Of course one is forced to buy somewhat costly Serfas batteries for spares or replacements. Great for Serfas and most users, not so good for a few users.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  54. #654
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    Sweet, got replacement straps in the mail. They look identical but the new ones are much more stretchy. Gonna put it to use in the morning!

  55. #655
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolekl View Post
    A simple remote control to go with that and a fool proof way to fix it to most helmets and you have a winner.
    Remote control is always a nice feature for headlights.


    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    This is your chance guys to put together a wish list!
    I am aiming to potentially have a high low if I can get a proper cutoff beam pattern integrated nicely. I don't want to do these fake ones that end up being blobs.
    Great!

    • If integrated USB port for charging, then USB-C to be usable without adapters even in five years
    • illuminated remote control with two buttons (hi/low beam & hi/low brightness)
    • fading between changing the brightness, like dimming it up or down (same for powering it on/off)
    • cateye compatible mount
    • usable upside-down (like the B&M IQ-X)
    • rubber gasket to protect against damage if it hits the ground (could be removable/optional)
    • small LC display to see remaining battery capacity in % and runtime at current mode
    • optional sealing mount to use USB-cable for recharging/powering during the ride while beeing rainproof/water resistant


    Some of my ideas have been already posted in this thread:
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278.html#post13423691
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278-2.html#post13429652
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278-2.html#post13430631


    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.
    It doesn't have to be bare, there are good boxes for transportation.
    XTAR New Battery Case

  56. #656
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    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light? Can't it be integrated any better, matching the profile of existing components better? Perhaps hug the bar, making use of space behind and in front of the bar, like that clug bike storage thing? Or perhaps span the front of the stem plate and be designed to take a frontal hit? Certain riser bars sweep up and back very soon, making the aim kind of off, making me think of getting an extension bar for mounting stuff.

    At the same time, spread out the mass over a helmet? I recall a helmet light that followed the width-wise curve of a helmet, sort of hugging the top. Don't want a really high CoG that is prone to tipping and catching low branches.

    Asking, since I broke 3 lights this year through crashes. Broke a few "out-front" GPS mounts too, shearing off tabs off Garmins through lawn darting rock rolls (K-Edge out-front Garmin mount w/o plastic insert), or just leaning a bike by the handlebar and later hearing it fall, and seeing a broken Barfly out-front. Now running mounts that protect things behind and below the bar. I guess I'm one of the types that doesn't care about how much things weigh on scales as much as how the weight is carried.

    I suppose Knog has been trying to answer this question, but I don't see any lights from 'em that put out 1200+ lumens in a pattern that I need for hours at a time.

  57. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light? Can't it be integrated any better, matching the profile of existing components better? Perhaps hug the bar, making use of space behind and in front of the bar, like that clug bike storage thing? Or perhaps span the front of the stem plate and be designed to take a frontal hit? Certain riser bars sweep up and back very soon, making the aim kind of off, making me think of getting an extension bar for mounting stuff.

    At the same time, spread out the mass over a helmet? I recall a helmet light that followed the width-wise curve of a helmet, sort of hugging the top. Don't want a really high CoG that is prone to tipping and catching low branches.

    Asking, since I broke 3 lights this year through crashes. Broke a few "out-front" GPS mounts too, shearing off tabs off Garmins through lawn darting rock rolls (K-Edge out-front Garmin mount w/o plastic insert), or just leaning a bike by the handlebar and later hearing it fall, and seeing a broken Barfly out-front. Now running mounts that protect things behind and below the bar. I guess I'm one of the types that doesn't care about how much things weigh on scales as much as how the weight is carried.

    I suppose Knog has been trying to answer this question, but I don't see any lights from 'em that put out 1200+ lumens in a pattern that I need for hours at a time.
    Reading your post I kept thinking about Gloworm's excellent mounts. Pictures using the physically large Outbound lighthead show it can be mounted slightly below the stem. Using Gloworms lightheads (side mounted) you can run the mount straight down from the bars totally protecting the light. These mounts will work with any light with a Gopro style interface.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----001.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----003.jpg

  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light?

    Nope.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----dscn2183.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----cimg1051.jpg
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  59. #659
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    My personal fave right now is the Range Stem with the gopro mount installed. I have it on my Stache as a permanent location for the trail light:

    https://www.pnwcomponents.com/produc...r-garmin-mount

  60. #660
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    FYI our site has been broken all day. Will update when it's back online.

  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    My personal fave right now is the Range Stem with the gopro mount installed. I have it on my Stache as a permanent location for the trail light:

    https://www.pnwcomponents.com/produc...r-garmin-mount
    Saw that on your IG and Iím planning to put one on my fatbike, since it sees most of my night riding.

  62. #662
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    ya someone took Vancs idea off here and ran with it lol.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  63. #663
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    I would be nice to a remote to control the intensity of the light.

  64. #664
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    I ordered the downhill package and I got to give the road version a try this evening. I am in no way a light nerd but I was generally impressed. As others have noted, the beam is adequate. If I was to nitpick I would want the hot spot to be up a little higher. Basically right at the cutoff to draw my focus away from the bike a bit. As was mentioned this is a pretty nitpicky request. My other observation is that cornering to the left is tough. It is an inherent limitation in any light with a cutoff, I would assume. As the bike leans over the cutoff is leaned into the ground well short of where you actually need to see. So the faster you are going i.e. the more the bike is leaned over the less light you have ahead of the turn.

    The build quality of this thing is outstanding. I went ahead and bought a handlebar clamp and go pro mount from gloworm (action-led). It's a great mounting solution and lets me keep the go pro mount on the road light for helmet use on the MTB. I am looking forward to trying that combo but I think it will be a few weeks yet.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----2018091.jpg

  65. #665
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    Have you ever wonder having a TV without a remote? I'm just saying most bike equipment now have remote. Seat post and shocks. Why not put remote on headlight for safety reason and convinient... i'm just saying....

  66. #666
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    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.

  67. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.
    I tend to agree. I see a remote as a "nice to have" feature...maybe. I've never ridden with a remote for lights so I don't know. I could see it potentially being useful for a helmet light or for simultaneous control of a bar/helmet combination.

    Personally, I don't want a lot of clutter on the bars from more levers or switches. The other consideration would be battery life. I don't want to waste any available power from the battery on a wireless radio. I'd rather keep that power for making light.

  68. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    I tend to agree. I see a remote as a "nice to have" feature...maybe. I've never ridden with a remote for lights so I don't know. I could see it potentially being useful for a helmet light or for simultaneous control of a bar/helmet combination.

    Personally, I don't want a lot of clutter on the bars from more levers or switches. The other consideration would be battery life. I don't want to waste any available power from the battery on a wireless radio. I'd rather keep that power for making light.
    Agreed. I usually have my lights low for climbing, high for descending, and off for breaks and mothering up. I never adjust the brightness while riding. I also donít leave my lights on the bike all the time, so thatís just more to fuss with when putting them on.

    A TV is across the room. My lights are well within reach.

  69. #669
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    I rather take the compromise of simplicity and robustness over various luxuries added on. Feature creep is to blame for a lot of half baked junk on the market. That and cost cutting...

    Kind of unrealistic to go look at the competition, say Supernova ebike lights, Light and Motion, Gloworm, Knog, etc., and ask for someone else to take the best of their ideas and improve upon it somehow. Or take standards out-of-industry, like XT60 or XT90 connectors, and try and get people to adopt them at cost of compatibility with current standards. Or just expect too much for the price, like criticizing stock chargers to be junk, compared to hobby chargers.

    Breaking the habit of spec-sheet shopping, and perhaps comparing the product to something I can actually make something myself (e.g. my own battery pack), does wonders to keep my perspective down to Earth.

    BTW, what happened to the How-It's-Made page? Kind of wanted to look up how solder joints were avoided again.

  70. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.
    Well I've definitely been in situations where I was bombing down technical sections where I wish I could let go of the bars to change the light level, but didn't dare because it was too much risk. Perhaps it was poor planning on my part; perhaps it was due to unfamiliarity with the trail, either way it still happens.

    -Garry

  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Agreed. I usually have my lights low for climbing, high for descending, and off for breaks and mothering up. I never adjust the brightness while riding. I also donít leave my lights on the bike all the time, so thatís just more to fuss with when putting them on.

    A TV is across the room. My lights are well within reach.
    This.

    I also appreciate simplicity, and would rather use all of the available power and battery for functioning the light, rather than the remote, and not have one more thing to possibly break.

    I'm also a set it and forget it rider. I just ride with my OL light in adaptive mode, get nearly 4 hours of light out of it, and never mess with it lol

  72. #672
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    Not saying there will never be an optional remote on future products, but for the first round of products I focused on what was key to a good light, the actual light part.

    As others mentioned, feature creep, scope increase, and increased costs were all reasons I opted to forgo a remote. In it's place I specifically designed the light to have a massive single button right on top that is easy to reach and quick to react with a light touch. Tried out about 10 different switches for the PCB until deciding on one that felt justttt right.

    Maybe in the future will have the remote, bluetooth app, ANT+ compatibility, etc. But I am just one guy right now, so I have to pick my battles. The key differentiator with the Outbound products is the very long battery life thanks to the optimized beam patterns, not to mention the build quality, the actual beam pattern, and the customer service.

    As for that How-It's-Made-Page, once the website is working 100% again it'll be added back! A couple other new pages are in the works as well such as a bit better comparison page. If you visit the site right now you'll notice a weird double-header thing going on with the product pages. Waiting for the website guru guys to fix that... I've tried all I can.

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Well I've definitely been in situations where I was bombing down technical sections where I wish I could let go of the bars to change the light level, but didn't dare because it was too much risk. Perhaps it was poor planning on my part; perhaps it was due to unfamiliarity with the trail, either way it still happens.

    -Garry
    I've had this happen too.

    I'm in the camp of liking a wired remote, but I would not have one if it eliminated more desirable features or could cause a reliability issue. I build them into my bar and helmet lights because I can and there is really no penalty. A wired remote uses no additional power so runtime is not affected. In reality, wireless remote power consumption can be made so low that a runtime reduction would barely be able to be noticed.

    Some of the preference for switching output while riding may come from the lights I used when starting night riding. With my old halogen setups from the late 90s you had high and low. A crazy heavy battery that would run just a hair over an hour on high made you pretty conscientious about clicking to low whenever the trail allowed and only using high when it was really needed.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  74. #674
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    Yea, the long battery life just makes me keep it on high/adaptive all the time. Every time I stop for an extended time (long traffic light, or waiting for ride buddies), I turn it off; it's more to manage its heat, than to manage battery life. Simple to put a foot down and use 1 hand for each light to hold the button, and repeat before setting off, perhaps clicking again to set the brightness.

    I wonder about lights automatically doing this, but wouldn't want it to turn off completely unless it detected absolutely no movement for 10 minutes. Maybe switch to low after 5 minutes of low movement.

  75. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I've had this happen too.

    I'm in the camp of liking a wired remote, but I would not have one if it eliminated more desirable features or could cause a reliability issue.
    That pretty much sums up how I feel about remotes. I have 11 different lightheads with either wired or wireless remotes. Remote failures and/or remote related mode switching inconsistencies are by far the most common complaint/problem I've had with all my lights. Done correctly the remote option can be a very nice but not essential feature, done incorrectly (no mode switch on lighthead, poor remote body bar interface/mounting design, weak signal, toooo large, wired remote that plugs into usb port) remotes can be a giant PITA.
    Mole

  76. #676
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    I'm just curious where a remote mounts on the bars that makes it so much more convenient? Post pics for science

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    I'm just curious where a remote mounts on the bars that makes it so much more convenient? Post pics for science
    Here is the typical location for the bar light. Right at the RH grip,
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p1020190.jpg

    This is how I've ended up doing it for the helmet. Requires removing hand from bars which is not ideal, but having the fairly large switch right over the temple is much easier/quicker to actuate than a switch on the top of the light. You don't have to move your hand quite as far.
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----dscn1079.jpg
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  78. #678
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    James in the UK got the Downhill package and has been getting some incredible pictures recently!

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9231500.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9231541-2-1-.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9241576-3.jpg

  79. #679
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    Sometimes just have to jump on the bandwagon.

    I'd be lying though if I didn't say I love this meme.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----mothlamp.jpg

  80. #680
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    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.

  81. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.
    Always a loaded question.

    When at biking speed (average about 10-15mph) then 20-30W (roughly) is sustainable. Obviously stopping or slowing down will reduce that. Also the design of the lighthead plays a big part in it. That's why I HAD to do die-cast design, no way to get the properly sized fins required on a CNC machine or through an extrusion like most cheap lights are done.

    Then of course the ambient temperature plays another big part.

    For myself, if I started pushing 25-30W, that's when I would be looking into active cooling so that it's still outputting properly at slower speeds or higher ambient temps. I notice that the Alpha doesn't have any air scoops or anything to force cooling air back behind the lamp where the majority of the heat is being generated. So I have a feeling it'll be like any other "omgultrahighpower" lamp, where it's impressive for about 30 seconds until it overheats and pulls power down. So people will be paying out the butt for 70W of power, but only be able to effectively use 30W or so of it, at most.

    Thats why to me.... 30-35W is sort of the "maximum" that a bike light will ever need to be. That's already like having two high power modern day car LED headlights on your bike at that point. That's roughly 3000-3500 lumens of real usable light that's doable with the right cooling and thermal load spreading. Just absolutely would need things in a shell that would avoid having the user touch the case if wanted to push it.

  82. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.
    ever seen an output graph for lupine? looks the the ocean, all waves because unless in cool temps and at decent speeds they cant maintain near max output because they are far too small for their max output. See as the size of automotive lights that produce the same lumens are literally 3x the size so they arent reliant on thermal protection and all that other stuff, many companies are going way too far beyond limits just to give pretty numbers. At least Lupine is high quality design and product but laws of physics catch even the best eventually. As well as dont get hung up on wattage (or lumens). Its more about how the light output is used versus how much there is.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RAKC Ind; 09-29-2018 at 08:52 PM.
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  83. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Always a loaded question.

    When at biking speed (average about 10-15mph) then 20-30W (roughly) is sustainable. Obviously stopping or slowing down will reduce that. Also the design of the lighthead plays a big part in it. That's why I HAD to do die-cast design, no way to get the properly sized fins required on a CNC machine or through an extrusion like most cheap lights are done.

    Then of course the ambient temperature plays another big part.

    For myself, if I started pushing 25-30W, that's when I would be looking into active cooling so that it's still outputting properly at slower speeds or higher ambient temps. I notice that the Alpha doesn't have any air scoops or anything to force cooling air back behind the lamp where the majority of the heat is being generated. So I have a feeling it'll be like any other "omgultrahighpower" lamp, where it's impressive for about 30 seconds until it overheats and pulls power down. So people will be paying out the butt for 70W of power, but only be able to effectively use 30W or so of it, at most.

    Thats why to me.... 30-35W is sort of the "maximum" that a bike light will ever need to be. That's already like having two high power modern day car LED headlights on your bike at that point. That's roughly 3000-3500 lumens of real usable light that's doable with the right cooling and thermal load spreading. Just absolutely would need things in a shell that would avoid having the user touch the case if wanted to push it.
    Thanks for your reply. That's why I'm running your Road/Trail combo in place of my Betty. My Betty can sustain only 16W at climbing speeds; at the next higher power level--22W--it'll step-down after about 15 minutes. Very irksome, especially since I paid "out the butt." Ouch!

  84. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Thanks for your reply. That's why I'm running your Road/Trail combo in place of my Betty. My Betty can sustain only 16W at climbing speeds; at the next higher power level--22W--it'll step-down after about 15 minutes. Very irksome, especially since I paid "out the butt." Ouch!
    Sounds pretty much exactly what I've noticed in my own testing, simulation, and real world results not only with automotive but also with bike lights.

    You can actually run LED heatsinks pretty hot if designed properly. OEM's have been getting more agressive with the heatsink size inside headlights. Used to be a lot of the headlights had big heatsinks and big fans pushing a lot of air (Mini Cooper, Mercedes Benz) to keep things cool. However I think they are starting to get a little more comfortable, and the LED tech is progressing that can have stable output at higher junction temperatures. Which means they can get rid of the fans (most unreliable part in a headlight assembly) and can start downsizing the heat sinks which reduces weight and part cost.

    The heat sink on the newest Jeep LED headlights on the wrangler and the cherokee is actually fairly small given the power they are putting out. Some trick stuff going on inside of it that I won't disclose since I might be applying it to future products.

    But do know that in LED tech on the automotive side, the biggest strides aren't in lumen output, no one cares about that anymore, we can get all the lumens we need. The biggest strides are in the junction temperature stability, emitter size reduction (getting down to sub 0.5mm^2), heat sink design, and more importantly the optical design. The rise of electric cars has put a huge focus on power reduction across all portions of the car to eek out more electric range. Headlights are one of the biggest power suckers so a LOT of work is being put into making more efficient headlights optically.

    The traditional projector type optics with a cutoff shade is only 40-45% efficient, which means the HID bulb that outputs nearly 2500 lumens, is only actually putting down 1000 lumens on the road. So two headlights are putting down 2000 lumens for a high end car. Even the most advanced LED projector optics are now only about 50-55% efficient, mostly because of losses through bounces, materials, and more.

    That's why there is a big push on reflectors and TIR style of optics. Not just a typical bowl spot TIR though, very complex surfaces to shape and mold the light exactly what it needs to be. Check out this cool little paper about the materials of lighting, and can see some of the interesting optics, particularly on the F-150.

    http://read.nxtbook.com/wiley/plasti...lities_pl.html

  85. #685
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    Hi Matt,

    I just ordered the trail edition this morning.

    Will it come with the updated strap?

    Thanks

  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendoe5010 View Post
    Hi Matt,

    I just ordered the trail edition this morning.

    Will it come with the updated strap?

    Thanks
    Yep! All lights since late July have the updated straps.

    Thanks for the order!

  87. #687
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    Speaking of automotive tech, does the Outbound light have any long term issue with UV exposure?

    The anti-UV coating on autos wears out, which I hope could be fixed more permanently perhaps through material choice, but I suspect they care more about looks, than function and ownership experience. Something well engineered should be simple to use, working "invisibly" without complaint.

    IMO, if people were hesitant to bad mouth the bad decisions of others, I'd imagine that they're in a glass house and are fearful of the retaliation. When you're comparing a $200 light to a $20 light, I can't give you much respect. Compare to the ones marketed to be the latest and greatest, and now you're talking. Can create pride in ownership, which results in better word-of-mouth, if you show how your product is valuable. The talk about temp management evolving to be lighter and smaller is a good start. Respect for that, for showing how much more intelligently you are ahead when compared to others, in a way that makes others feel empowered for choosing you.

    Waiting for a helmet light which is lower profile and has longer throw, to be specifically used with the original on the bars. Hopefully one that's more optimized for high speed riding in open areas (e.g. deserts). Also looking forward to a rear light that makes overtakers give you more space--perhaps making beam pattern that creates a rectangular box of red light which sort of outlines a "no entry" zone.

    You told me that these was these last light I'd buy, but I'm not yet convinced. Still riding conservatively, compared to how I ride during the day. I imagine the case would be different under a tree canopy where natural sun light is more limited, and these light things up more than during the day.

  88. #688
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    I got a lot of water in my light today on a very rainy ride, any thoughts on how to best get rid of it? I know it has a vent hole somewhere but I don't think running it till it dries out is practical and I'm sure there will be some spotty residue left on the back of the lens if I do that. Ideas?

  89. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision Man View Post
    I got a lot of water in my light today on a very rainy ride, any thoughts on how to best get rid of it? I know it has a vent hole somewhere but I don't think running it till it dries out is practical and I'm sure there will be some spotty residue left on the back of the lens if I do that. Ideas?
    PM'ed you. But is it actual standing water or just condensation? Condensation is to be expected since there is a drastic humidity difference combined with the higher heat inside. The breather vent will help balance that out after some time, shouldn't leave any residue.

    If actual water inside, then let's talk and I'll get that taken care of, and figure out how that happened, shouldn't be happening on a rainy ride. Now if you went diving... maybe.

  90. #690
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    You are fast, I PM'd you back, thanks!

    You're awesome, thanks for the return label. Now if only my power meter crank arm Kickstarter experience had been as positive when it had its issue...

  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Speaking of automotive tech, does the Outbound light have any long term issue with UV exposure?

    The anti-UV coating on autos wears out, which I hope could be fixed more permanently perhaps through material choice, but I suspect they care more about looks, than function and ownership experience. Something well engineered should be simple to use, working "invisibly" without complaint.
    That's the beauty of the silicone lens material. It's extremely UV resistant and doesn't need an external coating: https://www.momentive.com/WorkArea/D...?id=4294968078

    Although I would argue that even a normal PMMA lens for a bike light won't be seeing the degradation that an automotive headlight would. There are coatings applied as you mentioned but even if I did a plastic lens in the future I probably wouldn't bother with it. A bike light typically isn't left on the bike outside for days or years on end.

    IMO, if people were hesitant to bad mouth the bad decisions of others, I'd imagine that they're in a glass house and are fearful of the retaliation. When you're comparing a $200 light to a $20 light, I can't give you much respect. Compare to the ones marketed to be the latest and greatest, and now you're talking. Can create pride in ownership, which results in better word-of-mouth, if you show how your product is valuable. The talk about temp management evolving to be lighter and smaller is a good start. Respect for that, for showing how much more intelligently you are ahead when compared to others, in a way that makes others feel empowered for choosing you.
    I have made comparisons before to the more expensive lights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtc9PRFJHo). Not against doing comparisons at all. Just that the first thing most people do is try to compare to their cheap $20 light and how "I could buy 10 of these for the same price".

    One thing I hope to start doing is posting the teardowns of lots of different types of lights, from cheap to expensive along with comparisons in performance. I have taken apart a LOT of them to figure out some manufacturing tricks, benchmark, cost analysis, etc. Some really interesting things, and some appalling things in the most expensive of lights.

    Waiting for a helmet light which is lower profile and has longer throw, to be specifically used with the original on the bars. Hopefully one that's more optimized for high speed riding in open areas (e.g. deserts). Also looking forward to a rear light that makes overtakers give you more space--perhaps making beam pattern that creates a rectangular box of red light which sort of outlines a "no entry" zone.
    A self contained light is next up, and I hope to do a taillight as well. Just had to spend all the profit built up on the next re-order over the last few weeks so I'm back to nil. I have designs getting worked on in my spare time and once I speed up production with this next reorder I'll be able to focus some more effort on that, and start the prototyping/development phase.

  92. #692
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    Post this on the social media channels, but will update here.

    TLDR; going to be out of stock for a few weeks, so if you are thinking of buying, now is the time to do it. As of 10/3 I have enough PCB's for 30 lights.

    Hey guys! Little update. Turns out sales growth has massively outpaced my planning! Not getting another batch of PCB boards in until October 30th at the latest. When the re-order was placed a while back I was hoping to be selling 2-3 lights a day, recently it's been almost double that!

    As a result I am extremely limited on the number of lights I'll be able to ship immediately.

    So if you are thinking about buying, I'd highly suggest getting one sooner rather than later. As of today I have around 30 lights left. I will try to update with an accurate inventory count as we get closer to being temporarily out of stock. Will 100% be back in stock and shipping at the end of the month, but I know this is

    For those of you that have ordered, THANK YOU! Things are growing fast and you guys are the reason!

    -Matt Conte

  93. #693
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    Tried this setup out last night and it worked surprisingly well. Extra throw combo'd with the OB road added more usable reach to the beam. Hope the planned self-contained light will have equal or better performance to this Bontrager with some better mounting options (lower profile).
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----003.jpg

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    Matt,

    Could you tell us something about the charger? If I leave the battery pack charging overnight, will the charger detect full charge and safely cut off, or maybe switch over to a trickle charge? If it switches to a trickle charge, is there any benefit or any harm in leaving the pack charging for many hours? Thanks.

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    I received my Trail this week, and I'm leaning heavily towards a Road for my helmet also.

    Other options I'm considering are the Gloworm Alpha based on recommendations in this thread, and the L&M Trail 1000. Anyone use both the Road and another option on the helmet? I don't currently have a lot of high speed sections, so long distances aren't a huge factor. I'm also not looking for a remote.

  96. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahoogan View Post
    I received my Trail this week, and I'm leaning heavily towards a Road for my helmet also.

    Other options I'm considering are the Gloworm Alpha based on recommendations in this thread, and the L&M Trail 1000. Anyone use both the Road and another option on the helmet? I don't currently have a lot of high speed sections, so long distances aren't a huge factor. I'm also not looking for a remote.
    I tried the trail(bar)/road(helmet) and it worked very well. "Blends well" is good descriptive way to put it as the road version keeps the nice smooth wide beam but extends overall reach out another approx. 25% (my guess). Alpha is more of a hot spot in the beam but has quite a bit more throw so better for higher speeds. L&M Trail 1000 (not used one) is probably more like the Alpha but also one of those high powered single cell self-contained lights that trades high lumen numbers in the first few minutes at the expense of lower amounts through the rest of the runtime. Retail to retail the Bontrager Ion 1300 is considerably less money and maintains a significant power advantage through the entire runtime. Here's a pretty rough approximation of power to time curves. Higher output dark line (forgive my poor freehand skills) represents numbers I got from my Ion 1300. Drawback to the Ion is extra weight.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----8945a874-97be-4269-9cf4-2d4a21811d78.jpg
    Click to expand.

  97. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I tried the trail(bar)/road(helmet) and it worked very well. "Blends well" is good descriptive way to put it as the road version keeps the nice smooth wide beam but extends overall reach out another approx. 25% (my guess). Alpha is more of a hot spot in the beam but has quite a bit more throw so better for higher speeds. L&M Trail 1000 (not used one) is probably more like the Alpha but also one of those high powered single cell self-contained lights that trades high lumen numbers in the first few minutes at the expense of lower amounts through the rest of the runtime. Retail to retail the Bontrager Ion 1300 is considerably less money and maintains a significant power advantage through the entire runtime. Here's a pretty rough approximation of power to time curves. Higher output dark line (forgive my poor freehand skills) represents numbers I got from my Ion 1300. Drawback to the Ion is extra weight.
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click to expand.
    Thank you for the feedback. I'm going to start with getting extra weight mounted to my current helmet setup to mimic the Road and Ion weights. I'll narrow down my choices based on how much the weight differences affect me. If the weight isn't a big factor, I'll go with the Road to complete the package.
    Last edited by mahoogan; 10-12-2018 at 01:12 PM.

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    6 cell please!



    I haven't seen anyone elso mention this but on some of my longer rides I'm not able to access the higher modes for the last portion of the ride. Once battery level goes down to 3 lights the second to the lowest mode is as high as the light will stay at and once down to 2 lights the lowest mode. Is this the way it's supposed to work? Not an issue when using the road version since I normally run it at the second to lowest mode anyway but it does limit the trail as I prefer using the higher modes. I'd been using older Ituo batteries for mounting reasons and had just assumed they were getting weaker and causing this but finally got around to meter testing using the newer OB battery and a fairly new 8400 M-tiger 6 cell battery I have. Running in the highest mode with the OB battery fan cooled in my kitchen the light lasted 70 min. till it stepped down to the second from lowest mode and 2:20 down to the lowest mode. Same test with the 6 cell battery netted 1:50 running at the highest level and continues at the second to lowest mode till approx 3:30. I'm thinking this must have something to do with the emergency power reserve settings cause at the end of the last test I plugged the battery into a BT40 that was sitting nearby and it powered up to its normal max lux readings. Whatever the cause I'd say if you do long rides and like to use the higher settings on your light getting a higher capacity battery is probably a good idea.
    Mole

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    Not alone on that, I assumed the first time it was the fact I was using an SS case (just charged and balanced because I use it to charge bluetooth speaker and phone). But did it on a 6800mah Panasonic pack too. Was just assuming it was the connectors not jiving well. Broke out my CR900 for the rest of that ride

    Next ride Went to the 6 cell for my Theia and no issues but that ride was only an hour roughly. Also wondered if I had gone into adaptive mode accidently.

    Now I am wondering if I need to put a pack together specifically for this light that will keep voltage high enough for the majority of the run time.

    Hopefully just missed something or goofed settings (or even using a bigger pack as I got lighthead only) because by far the best road riding light out there IMHO. And about to get A LOT OF USE because I think I can start trying to ride again but smooth pavement (or gravel with fat tires) only.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  100. #700
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    Thought that was weird too. Just isn't as bright towards the end of the ride. Turned my bar mounted OB Trail off and on and it seemed locked to the 3rd brightest setting, the button not seeming to have any function but to show I'm in the 3rd mode, after about 1.5 hrs of use. I ride about 4 hours, with first 1.5h being bright enough to ride without the light. People ask me what I'm running, and I just tell 'em it's a kickstarter light from Outbound. By the last hour, other lights around me are able to overpower my light.

    Not a complaint, since it's functional. Love how 2 combine to make a nice even carpet of light. Just something that my senses picked up on that I stored in the back of my mind. Honestly never purposely put it into the lower 3 settings except in my garage when I first got them. I turn it to adaptive and leave it there, sometimes just leaving it on at rest stops, since I trust the battery capacity.

    Were also times I notice the 4th light flickering, which I understand is the battery life gauge/voltage reading? Sometimes it stops flickering and just returns to a solid 4th light.

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