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  1. #601
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    Outbound, I apologize for the derisive tone of some of my above "questions". Thank you for not taking insults from them.

  2. #602
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    oops, mistake, deleted
    Last edited by abvgdee; 07-17-2018 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #603
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    Had another nice long ride with the road version Sunday night. Not too many surprises with this light for me since I've got a good amount of hours of use with it but I did find my riding buddy's reaction to it interesting. George is a mechanic at a lbs and has always run Niteriders (1500 and 1000 pro, OLED 800 Lumina), so typical medium width round beam than creates a hot spot in whatever light I've ever taken on a ride with him. I usually run neutral white lights which admittedly look yellow/dim when combined with cool white lights like the Niteriders he uses so I don't think he's normally very impressed with what I'm running but not so with the OL road version. I think he was paying closer attention because he liked the fact that the light was US made + the tint of the OL was closer to his Niteriders + the wide smooth beam of the OL road lighthead equalled a very impressed George (and it's hard to tell with him). At one point we were riding along a unlit canal bank and I covered my light with my hand and I was even surprised how much visibility was lost with only his lights left running. Even beam coverage works really well!
    Mole

  4. #604
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    I do the same thing while riding with our older MS lights. Once you've gotten used to the OL light, covering it up has a jarring effect. A week or two ago I was descending one of our local twisty roads with the OL road version on my wife's bike, and it was the most comfortable nighttime descent of that road I've experienced, by a margin, and the light wasn't even on my bike.

    -Jeremy

  5. #605
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    Glad seeing the light!

    We had a similar reaction when launching the lightbars I had designed for another company. I focused on an even beam width with a rectangular beam pattern and soft falloffs, forgoing high peak numbers and big lumens. In head-to-head wall shot tests the "other" bars would "win" but once people used the optics I designed on the road, and more importantly in races it became more clear what I had intended. Right now our lightbars are on half the rally cars in the US in less than a year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E1f7G-Ha4A

    Most lights were intense circular spots just like a lot of bike lights. So teams would have 4-5 of these aimed slightly off and would see 4 or 5 different hotspots while sliding through the corners. Instead now it's just a wide even wall of light that makes driving (and riding) at night a lot more comfortable.

    New straps arrive Monday, and hope to get them out to everyone ASAP. Then I can start sending these lights out to reviewers and influencers. Last thing I wanted was to send a light out for review and have that 8% chance that it'd break. Would be disastrous!
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  6. #606
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    Thought some of you guys might find this interesting. I put together a "How It's Made" page on the site showing the construction of the light.

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/how-its-made/
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  7. #607
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    That was AWESOME!
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    That was AWESOME!
    Thanks! Took a while to shoot in the whitebox, but I hope can show exactly what goes into each of these lights.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  9. #609
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    @Outbound; People are going to like that page that explains "How it is made". You need to add that link to your signature ( at the bottom of your posts )

  10. #610
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    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!
    Daylight is Gloworms version of cool white and similar in tint to the Outbound lights. X2 works well for spotting surprises around up coming corners and illuminating trail features beyond the reach of the Outbound trail.
    Mole

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    I've been following this thread for a few weeks. I'm looking into getting my first light(s). An option I was considering that was previously discussed is the Outbound Trail with the Gloworm X2. The Gloworm Cool White was cited as the best color match for the Outbound, but I see they have Daylight and Neutral White as the only options. Did they change their options?

    Thanks!
    If you are considering getting two lights, might I suggest the downhill package? It's the road version for your head, trail version for the bars, extension cord, two batteries, two chargers, gopro mounts, gopro helmet mount and the bar mounts. They work together amazingly well.

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/pro...in-bike-light/

    This video (starts around the 6 minute mark) shows how the light carpets in front blend together seamlessly, along with the extra punch of the road reflector to make for a pretty awesome riding experience.

    https://youtu.be/IBcJUYLPYSo?t=6m4s

    Plus cheaper than buying an X2 and a trail separately.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    If you are considering getting two lights, might I suggest the downhill package?
    I am considering 2 lights, but thinking about getting one now and one later in the year. I have thought about downhill package, but I was leaning towards a smaller profile light for my helmet. Side note: I had been researching lights for about 3 months and was pretty unhappy with the options available at certain price points. I was just about ready to DIY something because I wanted some serious light so I could see down the road, but also width so I could see what was around me. By complete accident I came across this thread. I eagerly read through every post from the beginning and was so happy to find what I was looking for! I just want to say thank you for creating this light at a price I think is completely reasonable

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Daylight is Gloworms version of cool white and similar in tint to the Outbound lights. X2 works well for spotting surprises around up coming corners and illuminating trail features beyond the reach of the Outbound trail.
    Mole
    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post
    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?
    I got my X2 back from Action Led, I sent it off to have the NW emitters swapped for the Daylight versions, it was a fast and very reasonable service. It is indeed now a much better match for the OL Trail, and they go together nicely. I am sure the OL Road and Trail would also be an excellent combo, but I think having the wireless bar mounted remote for the X2 on the helmet seals the deal for me.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by robojet View Post


    Thank you for the clarification! Is it safe to assume that all Gloworms models with "Daylight" would be a good color match, or would that be a mistake?

    I'm also wondering if the Alpha model would be a good choice, or would I be losing too much to save a few dollars?
    I'm actually not sure if the Alpha (and CX Urban) match the other Gloworm lights since these 2 have different emitters (XP-G3) but would think they're pretty close (I own a Alpha but it's NW). Alpha would work fine with a Outbound trail. Besides being less expensive than the X2 the Alpha is also a little smaller (I can't even tell when its on my helmet) plus only requires about 60% of the current draw of an X2 to produce similar throw (narrower beam). Main advantage of the X2 is the wireless remote switch. Both lights are very good throwers and if you need more there's always the XS.
    Mole

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Both lights are very good throwers and if you need more there's always the XS.
    Mole
    Great info. Really appreciate it. I was looking at the Gloworm website as well as action-led. It seems that the color option (Daylight/Neutral White) is only offered by action-led. The Gloworm website does not indicate what the color is... so I'm not sure what I would be getting there. Is this a service that action-led provides that you can't get from Gloworm?

  17. #617
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    Gloworm standard is dailight tint. Only action lights rework the leds to a second option.
    I send you a pm with some additional info.

  18. #618
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    Had a nice group ride the other night, letting everyone demo the lights, and a few people who had already been using the lights for a long time.

    Going to have another group ride in the STL area (Lost Valley) next sunday (August 5th) at 8pm where anyone interested can demo any of the light setups we have.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  19. #619
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    Just went on a brief suburban road ride (neighborhood streets with streetlights). Comments:

    1. Good color temperature and rendition.

    2. Generally even "carpet" of light in front of bike.

    3. Can still see some stripes of uneven light within the beam pattern, which means when I rock the handlebars back and forth they show up. Not as bad as a hot spot that moves back and forth, but still... Can the silicone diffuser be improved further to make the light more even?

    4. Overall the beam pattern is good, but I would have preferred a lump of light far forwards and center like I assumed from the simulation plots.
    I attached a MS paint drawing to show what I mean. The light blue diagram is what the OL road beam pattern feels like, and the green is what I prefer. Both these patterns have the same "beam angle" as defined by the two sloped lines on each side.
    Name:  beampattern.png
Views: 2323
Size:  3.5 KB

    5.Dam, this takes a long time to charge. I have a battery charger with customizable settings for use with RC car batteries. What is the connector on this battery, and what settings should I use to charge this?

    6.Setting #3 and #4 are nearly the same brightness

    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.

    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Just went on a brief suburban road ride (neighborhood streets with streetlights). Comments:

    1. Good color temperature and rendition.

    2. Generally even "carpet" of light in front of bike.

    3. Can still see some stripes of uneven light within the beam pattern, which means when I rock the handlebars back and forth they show up. Not as bad as a hot spot that moves back and forth, but still... Can the silicone diffuser be improved further to make the light more even?

    4. Overall the beam pattern is good, but I would have preferred a lump of light far forwards and center like I assumed from the simulation plots.
    I attached a MS paint drawing to show what I mean. The light blue diagram is what the OL road beam pattern feels like, and the green is what I prefer. Both these patterns have the same "beam angle" as defined by the two sloped lines on each side.
    Name:  beampattern.png
Views: 2323
Size:  3.5 KB

    5.Dam, this takes a long time to charge. I have a battery charger with customizable settings for use with RC car batteries. What is the connector on this battery, and what settings should I use to charge this?

    6.Setting #3 and #4 are nearly the same brightness

    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.

    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.
    3. Working with the supplier to try and improve the lenses in future runs. We are always going to keep on trying to improve on all aspects of the light.

    4. Are you using the trail or the road?

    5. Standard DC5521 connector. Should take about 4.5-5 hours to charge from completely empty.

    6. Indeed, almost no perceivable change from high to medium-high. However there is indeed a small current change. Got a bit happy-go-lucky with the number of settings we wanted. Future lights are probably going to just have the Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low settings, no more in-between.

    8. Your light should have come with a small GoPro adapter that can be swapped out with an M3 hex tool. Then have the options for the hundreds of different gopro tube mounts out there. The OEM GoPro stuff is quite good, though pricey.

    11. This was a compromise. I agree with you, but then the light would be sitting almost 3-4" above the bar, looking quite goofy, and making mounting a little harder. So the focus on lightweightness was the priority.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post

    4. Are you using the trail or the road?
    road

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    8.Any plans for a head tube mount, or link to some kind of Go-pro adapter bracket thing?

    9. Light needs a little bit more of a "visor" from the case, so that when I stand and pedal on the uphills, it won't blind me when I look down.

    10. I don't like the mounting strap because the settings are too discrete, and either the light is too tight or loose. I prefer the plastic clamps with a screw to tighten.

    11. Center of mass should be above mounting point, otherwise, hitting bumps will eventually cause the light to dip downwards.
    Luckily I havn't had any movement issues with the stock strap but I do prefer the Gopro mount. Here's a picture of my road version using a Gloworm QR bar mount. Curious what diameter bar your using the strap mount on?

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----005.jpg


    7. I haven't had a chance yet to try my typical night ride, which is up and down a twisty road in the hills. The main issues here will be how good is the side illumination, and whether the beam sweeping back and forth as I slowly crawl up the hill will be annoying or not.
    Looking forward to what you think after you ride your light in these conditions. I was disapointed with how low actual production models max. lux numbers were compared to the prototypes but in actual use have been very happy with the lights performance.
    Mole

  23. #623
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    Had a chance to do rural (no streetlights) road riding. For those of u in Nor-Cal, it was Old La Honda road, a popular hill-climb for roadies.

    The first thing I noticed was that this light does not have that much forwards throw unless you are willing to raise it a few degrees and start to blind oncoming traffic. But at least the throw seems good now. I still think this light would benefit from throwing a bit more light out at the horizon. The good thing is that the "light carpet" patch is spread out enough that there is not a hot spot in front of you that blows out the rest of your night vision.

    This first pic is along an open straight road. The top image is when I set the light just high enough that it will illuminate an oncoming car's license plate, but not the driver. The middle image is when I raise the light more, and you can now see that the road signs are glowing, and the white bike lane line is illuminated much further. Note that the "light carpet" patch isn't really any dimmer, but the throw is much better. Third image is the LED headlights from my car. It has sharp cutoff, very even illumination, and even the left side of the road is lit up. (click image for full size)

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----open_road.jpg

    Next set of images is when I am actually in the hills with trees. BTW, I like how the light leaks a bit upwards so I can see what is overhead. Again, notice how much better the throw is when I aim the light higher, but also see how much higher that pole is illuminated, so worse for oncoming traffic.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----closed_road.jpg

    There is still a mild annoyance due to the slight striping in the light patch when I sway the handlebars back and forth, but it is less annoying than seeing the side cutoff of the light sway around. However, on my way up, I got passed by another cyclist with some cheapo light with a dim, blue, round, narrow spot waving around back and forth. (He only passed me because his light was lighter) My light was totally better.

    Another thing I noticed was that due to the shape of the beam, I don't have enough light in the upper left corner. So what this means is that I can't take left turns at full speed because I simply can't see. For some reason, right turns are less of a problem, maybe because I ride on the right side of the road? Now I think what might be a good idea is to maybe have an asymmetrical beam that throws a little more light to the upper left, sort of like how my car headlight does. Despite what I said in my last post where I wanted the beam pattern to be more "pointy" in the front, now I want it to illuminate the horizon further to the sides. And maybe make the light on the right side a little bit dimmer (while increasing the angle at the same time) because you don't need to illuminate close objects so much.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----left_turn.jpg

    Additional comments:
    Light color temperature and rendering is still very natural and good.
    Maybe have a little lever that can toggle the light up and down a few degrees.
    Now that I think about it, levels 4, 3, and even 2 are nearly the same brightness.
    What's the max amps I can charge this at, if I want to charge it quickly? And what type of Lithium is it, so I know the final voltage to aim for?

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Had a chance to do rural (no streetlights) road riding. For those of u in Nor-Cal, it was Old La Honda road, a popular hill-climb for roadies.

    The first thing I noticed was that this light does not have that much forwards throw unless you are willing to raise it a few degrees and start to blind oncoming traffic. But at least the throw seems good now. I still think this light would benefit from throwing a bit more light out at the horizon. The good thing is that the "light carpet" patch is spread out enough that there is not a hot spot in front of you that blows out the rest of your night vision.
    Nice post beanbag!! I know what you mean about the difference in beam angle adjustment for effective cutoff vs. max throw. For riding on roads I've only used mine in town where speeds are relative low and adjusting for cutoff works fine for me in that application but I also prefer the road version (compared to the trail) for the trails I ride and always adjust up a few degrees for that. Using the Gloworm mount w/Gopro adapter (picture in my last post) makes on-the-fly adjusting a bit easier.

    Questions about your beam shots:

    1) Were they all taken in the highest/brightest mode?

    2) Was the car beam in low or high? Would you consider your cars lights performance similar to most (noticed picture labeled Golf R which is the "high performance model" and I'm not sure if it's equipped with upgraded lights)?

    Now that I think about it, levels 4, 3, and even 2 are nearly the same brightness.
    I always run the road version at the second lowest level. Current draw on this light is a bit high for its power output and low battery protection (so you don't run out of light suddenly) kicks in when the fuel gauge drops to 3 LED"s. Won't allow access to any higher settings after that, good to know if you do longer rides.
    Mole

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Despite what I said...
    I guess any mega-rocket-scientist would also be confused if asked to do what you tried to do ó to express a general function of 2 variables (real angular distribution) as a function of only 1 (as you drew). I heard experts hate to be confused, so that's probably why they use "wall" shot images (what's the proper name BTW?).

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    1) Were they all taken in the highest/brightest mode?

    2) Was the car beam in low or high? Would you consider your cars lights performance similar to most (noticed picture labeled Golf R which is the "high performance model" and I'm not sure if it's equipped with upgraded lights)?
    1) I forgot. Probably #3 setting
    2) regular low beam. It's the first year that VW had LED headlights on this car. I think they are pretty good, but I don't know how good they are relative to other cars.

  27. #627
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    Gotta remember with LED headlights on cars, they are often multiple segments, large reflectors, weigh 15 pounds, and roughly a combined 5000-6000 lumens for both left and right headlights. Better comparison would be to cover up one of the headlights. Most modern headlights are designed to work in pairs, where the left one illuminates more of the left side of the road, and the right vice versa.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  28. #628
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    Can anyone comment how these lights compare to Light & Motionsís Seca lineup?

  29. #629
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    This is a dumb question, but Iíd like to charge these batteries in my vehicle. Can anyone recommend a car charger with dual outputs to charge 2 simultaneously? I could use a cigarette lighter pigtail and get 2 chargers I suppose...

  30. #630
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    You realize car chargers take quite a long time to charge these style battery packs? A charger to charge quickly doubled up on a power outlet may very possibly overload the circuit. If you have 2 outlets I would try to aim that way. Using each on separately.

    My way of dealing with it is power inverter in my rear power outlet. Used it to charge whatever including my ryobi battery packs for my cordless tools when doing trail days.

    I've used an RC charger in the past too but for some odd reason the cheap inverter is more efficient than the not so cheap charger.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  31. #631
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    Ordering pair of focal series (trail/road) without battery

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I've been working on as I prepare for this kickstarter campaign.


    I was missed the party. I'm having interest in night riding in last 3 month, so I wasnít have many experienced so far.


    Regarding with your lights, it's possible to order a set both road and trail version without battery pack send to Indonesia? My country is always restricted with battery only packages (except device with self-containing battery), and all my order including with battery pack is always returned to seller and my order was cancelled. In the end I'm must build my own pack using Chinese battery box. That's why most my bike light is self-contained dual emitters unit because of these limitation.


    I'm living in Eastern Asian region which is quite difficult to get trusted west branded light because no reseller here, ordering directly cost too much shipping and heavy tax especially packages with up to $50 USD value.


    Due all those inconvenience, I have no choice using Chinese brands but it quite a mix of bag. But at least some of reputable Chinese lights are quite good.




    Considered I'm still noob in this field, here some light history I've been used to explain why I'm need at least perfect light solution to suit in my taste.


    1) My first light was Ravemen PR1200 ($100 USD). It was good and working well so far. But in struggle penetrating heavy rain / heavy fog. Honestly I'm haven't spend light more than $100 each unit (Ravemen PR1200 is the most expensive in my collection) but probably I want adding secondary PR1200 in future to run dual/pair PR1200 setup. I'm like the color temprature which is less glare on trail even at maximum brightness. My only complaint is no fully operation via remote, because button on remote only hardwired to changing brightness button (cannot switch mountain/road mode on the fly)


    2) Got a pair faked Solarstorm X3 with triple XML T6 (total was $18 only!) and...hell crap, using awhile for at least temporary complement with existing Ravemen PR1200. Color temperature isn't match but I have no choice.


    3) Got a pair of true Solarstorm X2 with CREE XM-L2 emitters (was $26 at that time ordering). Super bright, but just hotspot. Also flickering PWM, interference with my analog RF wireless cateye computer. Well, at least it can penetrate fog stronger than Ravemen PR1200.


    4) Order a pair Nitenumen X8 for $45 USD each, $90 in total. I have read in in budget light forum features and looks great so I'm ordered. Unfortunately, it seems not as good Iím expected. Claimed 1800 lumens but Solarstorm X2 / Ravemen PR1200 still brighter than that. The good only in good huge LG battery, so itís shine longer than my Ravemen PR1200 in highest settings. Its looks this light are quite underpowered since it have XM-L2 it should at least perform like non self-contained siblings Solarstorm X2. Not causing interfere with my analog RF wireless bike computer.


    5) KDLitker BL-70S for $42, this time just buy one, not pair because of their size (and already equipped with high power XHP 70.2). One of my favorite because it provides me quite warm temperature, Iím choose 4000K color and illuminate trail like a sun, because it more natural for my eyes seeing periphery with sunset / sunrise like color. The worst is switching mode too fast activate curse blinding strobeÖIím wonder why strobe mode should be activate by double clickÖuggh. This one is quite powerful to penetrating thick fog.


    6) Purchase pair of Gachiron V9D-1600, ($55 each, $110 in total. Everything goods, beam pattern have nice flood but still have enough throw, I can say this is jack of all trade of beam pattern. UI is behave similarly like Ravemen PR1200, smooth/stepless mode changing, fully wired remote operation (where Ravemen PR1200 doesnít), can using wired remote in rain without reduce water ingress risk, and hidden blinding eyes strobe mode. Brightness is equal with Ravemen PR1200 and all mode is usable (no useless eco mode). So Iím quite pleased with beam performance. But it have quite fatal shortcomings in my opinion, since it consist of two piece body construction, metal body of this lamp is very small, the rest just plain plastic, make it prone to overheat. Iíve test at speed which most lamp should cool (about 50-56km/h by drafting big trucks for about 2 km), It still quite hot!! Other lamp I have usually still cool at maximum brightness at least when Iím pushed to 40km/h.


    As stated above, thereís just a bunch light I have and tested so far. No one is perfect. Still finding suitable setup for my taste, and thatís why Iím found your focal series and interest to get one. I'm also fan of pair setup, it's provides me longer time on dark trail because low/medium output from double separate beam are brighter than low/medium with single headlight.


    TLDR, So this is my question,


    1) Is possible to purchase headlight unit only? (without battery/charger) Because I donít find option to choose headlight only in your store.


    2) Its have similar Magicshine / Solarstorm like battery plug setup? From Iím read from this thread Iím assume it should have common DC plug found in many common battery packs (just to make sure) because of my country lithium battery restriction law.


    3 I'm know this is shameful, but it possible to declare value lower than $50 when ship put? As you know, all my bike are came from China and they always gave me low price declaration for all these lamp, so they can delivered to me without being stuck on custom.






    Sorry for spamming to much for my first post, has been lurker since 2012 but tempted with your focal series so I create account to get in touch. (pardon for grammar error because English is not my native)


    Regards
    Last edited by yurc; 08-10-2018 at 12:15 AM. Reason: fixing some typo and add some missing information

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    You realize car chargers take quite a long time to charge these style battery packs? A charger to charge quickly doubled up on a power outlet may very possibly overload the circuit. If you have 2 outlets I would try to aim that way. Using each on separately.

    My way of dealing with it is power inverter in my rear power outlet. Used it to charge whatever including my ryobi battery packs for my cordless tools when doing trail days.

    I've used an RC charger in the past too but for some odd reason the cheap inverter is more efficient than the not so cheap charger.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I have a car outlet in the back thatís always on. It supports a pretty gnarly USB-C charger that I can power battery banks up pretty fast.
    The included AC adapters are pretty slow, Iíd rather skip an inverter as my AC outlet isnít in the cargo area where I want to store my lights. I was looking on amazon and just didnít see many car chargers with this plug unless I missed something. Iím at work for 10-12 hrs so the battery packs would have tons of time to charge.

  33. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurc View Post
    .........

    PM'ed you!
    OutboundLighting.com
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  34. #634
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    Regarding the car charging, I know some newer cars are coming with some really high amperage charging ports. Heck it's even a rated item on car & driver in depth reviews (decent is 1A, great is 2A). I've been surprised how quick my phone charges using a USB port in my truck, but it's also a 2A one I believe.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  35. #635
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    Iím just going to run an inverter and 2x2A AC chargers as the only cigarette car chargers are all 1A. Should be great!

  36. #636
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    Third party reviewers starting to get some lights for testinggggg.

    OUTBOUND LIGHTING FOCAL SERIES ROAD LIGHT

    The unit performed flawlessly. It is simple to use and maintain. If you are training with a GPS head unit, you will probably need to put your head unit in your jersey pocketÖthatís really the only negative to this unit. It is priced below its competitorsí comparable units and is a great value. Itís also lightweight at 100g (3.53 oz.) headlight or 416g (14.67 oz.) for the complete system. This latest entry into the headlight arena deserves a full 5/5 stars from us!
    OutboundLighting.com
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  37. #637
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    Been running the downhill package on quick hour rides before work in the morning for the last week or so. Everything is working out pretty good, overheated 1 light once though. I turned it off about 2 minutes after stopping and it took a minute before it cooled down enough to turn back on. Not that big of a deal, I figured it was in a thermal protection mode although I couldnít see the lights as it was helmet mounted. I continue to be impressed by the road/trail combo.
    Honestly, the trail just doesnít light up the trail as much as Iíd like by itself. It gives me a nice fill but the amount of light on the trail is too dim for me to use alone. But, toss the road on the helmet and itís game over! Light for days with a nice even fill directly in front of you.
    Iím relatively inexperienced at night riding, and I worry about judging heights of trail features (rocks/roots/holes). I do get shadows on the features with this setup and thatís a good indicator I can use to tell me if thereís any ďreal heightĒ behind something.
    Overall I love it. The performance and quality of all the components for the cost is great.

  38. #638
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    I havenít had a chance to use my trail lamp yet. Iím a little concerned about the amount of throw for my conditions, which are Montana mid-elevation Ponderosa forests and sage meadows - not dense forest. But I usually do only 2-3 night rides a year with my trail bike. Most of my night riding is over snow on the fatbike, with lower speeds and higher albedo landscape.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Been running the downhill package on quick hour rides before work in the morning for the last week or so. Everything is working out pretty good, overheated 1 light once though. I turned it off about 2 minutes after stopping and it took a minute before it cooled down enough to turn back on. Not that big of a deal, I figured it was in a thermal protection mode although I couldnít see the lights as it was helmet mounted. I continue to be impressed by the road/trail combo.
    Honestly, the trail just doesnít light up the trail as much as Iíd like by itself. It gives me a nice fill but the amount of light on the trail is too dim for me to use alone. But, toss the road on the helmet and itís game over! Light for days with a nice even fill directly in front of you.
    Iím relatively inexperienced at night riding, and I worry about judging heights of trail features (rocks/roots/holes). I do get shadows on the features with this setup and thatís a good indicator I can use to tell me if thereís any ďreal heightĒ behind something.
    Overall I love it. The performance and quality of all the components for the cost is great.
    Try mounting the Road on the bar but aimed high (along with the Trail). The two complement each other extremely well. I rarely using my helmet light anymore, except on faster downhills.

  40. #640
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series ---- Discussion ----

    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Try mounting the Road on the bar but aimed high (along with the Trail). The two complement each other extremely well. I rarely using my helmet light anymore, except on faster downhills.
    Iím usually climbing rocky singletrack next to a wall and the road makes ďhot spotsĒ on the wall when I bar mount the road. The trail/road bar/helmet combo works great for me. I think it would work great for everyone who is willing to shell out the $$.

  41. #641
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    Did u send out the updated straps yet?

  42. #642
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    Yurc - Companies get fined out of existence and people go to jail for undervaluing goods for export. I don't like paying Duty and VAT anymore than anyone else, but I'm not going to ask someone else to put their butt on the line so I can save a few bucks, and I'm certainly not going to ask that in an open public forum.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  43. #643
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    Hey guys, not much to report here except I am starting to gear up for our second production run. Making some minor improvements to help speed up the assembly time, nothing much with the core functions of the product.

    Some of you may know, I quit my comfortable full time job as an optical design engineer about 3 weeks ago to focus 100% on Outbound Lighting. So far been a great move. Being able to focus on the business is showing. I spent about a week revamping the website for better mobile performance and to clean things up on the desktop side, be sure to check it out!

    www.outboundlighting.com

    Other "big" news is that I have started development on a single-cell internal battery light to compete with the Ion's, Luminas, and a few others. This is going to be another 6-8 months until production ready, so wouldn't get too excited just yet. Aiming for extreme lightweightness, a properly shaped beam pattern with the integrated light carpet. Won't be nearly as wide as the trail version, but somewhere in between the road and Trail.

    My intent is for it to be a great single light for relaxed trail riding but a perfect helmet light compliment to the trail version. Won't be as powerful or long lasting as the road version on the helmet.

    Will be looking to integrate some cool materials and an extremely high build quality. Whether this will end up on Kickstarter again or not is yet to be seen. Will have to weigh the benefits/cons.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  44. #644
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    Sadly I have not used my lights yet [hangs head in shame]. However, did I see in one of your posts here that you were sending out new straps because there was a problem with the original ones? I never got any package or email about this. Can you update me and refresh my memory about any strap problems please?

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    Sadly I have not used my lights yet [hangs head in shame]. However, did I see in one of your posts here that you were sending out new straps because there was a problem with the original ones? I never got any package or email about this. Can you update me and refresh my memory about any strap problems please?
    You aren't wrong. I've admittedly been terrible about getting these straps out. My shipping software was throwing a fit when trying to send out warranty stuff. It is my top priority on getting all that squared away today and shipped out.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  46. #646
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    Okay, thanks for the update.

  47. #647
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    Replacement straps came in the mail today. Thanks Outbound!
    Mole

  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Replacement straps came in the mail today. Thanks Outbound!
    Mole
    I appreciate you guys keeping on me about it! Like I mentioned, I was being terrible about taking the 6 or so hours it took to pack, label and get them out. Been insanely busy.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Other "big" news is that I have started development on a single-cell internal battery light to compete with the Ion's, Luminas, and a few others. This is going to be another 6-8 months until production ready, so wouldn't get too excited just yet. Aiming for extreme lightweightness, a properly shaped beam pattern with the integrated light carpet. Won't be nearly as wide as the trail version, but somewhere in between the road and Trail.

    My intent is for it to be a great single light for relaxed trail riding but a perfect helmet light compliment to the trail version. Won't be as powerful or long lasting as the road version on the helmet.

    Will be looking to integrate some cool materials and an extremely high build quality. Whether this will end up on Kickstarter again or not is yet to be seen. Will have to weigh the benefits/cons.
    Ahh I'm just in the market for a new helmet light :-) My wish would be something like the Exposure Joystick, but with removable battery so you can change it out on the trail. One and a half hours runtime just doesn't cut it, but a one minute pitstop to change battery would be a bearable price to pay for light weight, no wires and decent output. Being a helmet light I would look for more throw and less width in the light. A simple remote control to go with that and a fool proof way to fix it to most helmets and you have a winner. In my book at least ;-)

    Thinking about it, I kind of like how the Lumonite Compass can be mounted because it allows a low profile and less risk to get stuck in branches etc.

    LUMONITE¬ģ Compass, 1238 lm 999kr - I lager - VALOSTORE.SE

  50. #650
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    Great suggestions! I've been looking into how to design a removable battery pack since that'd be on my wish list as well. Challenges come with cost, complexity of the tooling and charging. However it would open up some interesting configurations such as the running light like you linked.

    This is your chance guys to put together a wish list! Can't promise I'll be able to integrate everything due to either cost constraints or simply the laws of physics (sorry no 3000 lumen, 4 hour runtime on a single battery ).

    I am aiming to potentially have a high low if I can get a proper cutoff beam pattern integrated nicely. I don't want to do these fake ones that end up being blobs. Nor extremely inefficient versions that waste a lot of lumens through an aspherical lens or shields. No promises though!

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Great suggestions! I've been looking into how to design a removable battery pack since that'd be on my wish list as well.
    Cool! It doesn't have to be a proper "pack", just being able to swap 18650 batteries would be good enough.

  52. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolekl View Post
    Cool! It doesn't have to be a proper "pack", just being able to swap 18650 batteries would be good enough.
    Yea would be nice. I've always had in my mind to have something of GoPro quality, where the user doesn't even have to see an 18650. I know the guys on here who like to tweak endlessly and add more and more batteries might not be a fan, but I am thinking more broadly of the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Yea would be nice. I've always had in my mind to have something of GoPro quality, where the user doesn't even have to see an 18650. I know the guys on here who like to tweak endlessly and add more and more batteries might not be a fan, but I am thinking more broadly of the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.
    Some Serfas models do this and it looks pretty nice for a consumer level user. The Serfas design is pretty recognizable as an 18650. It has a nice over-molded body that threads into the light body and seals with an o-ring. Connections are nicely recessed so carrying one in a pocket or pack would present little opportunity for a short to occur.

    Of course one is forced to buy somewhat costly Serfas batteries for spares or replacements. Great for Serfas and most users, not so good for a few users.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  54. #654
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    Sweet, got replacement straps in the mail. They look identical but the new ones are much more stretchy. Gonna put it to use in the morning!

  55. #655
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolekl View Post
    A simple remote control to go with that and a fool proof way to fix it to most helmets and you have a winner.
    Remote control is always a nice feature for headlights.


    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    This is your chance guys to put together a wish list!
    I am aiming to potentially have a high low if I can get a proper cutoff beam pattern integrated nicely. I don't want to do these fake ones that end up being blobs.
    Great!

    • If integrated USB port for charging, then USB-C to be usable without adapters even in five years
    • illuminated remote control with two buttons (hi/low beam & hi/low brightness)
    • fading between changing the brightness, like dimming it up or down (same for powering it on/off)
    • cateye compatible mount
    • usable upside-down (like the B&M IQ-X)
    • rubber gasket to protect against damage if it hits the ground (could be removable/optional)
    • small LC display to see remaining battery capacity in % and runtime at current mode
    • optional sealing mount to use USB-cable for recharging/powering during the ride while beeing rainproof/water resistant


    Some of my ideas have been already posted in this thread:
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278.html#post13423691
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278-2.html#post13429652
    forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/outbound-lighting-focal-series-discussion-1055278-2.html#post13430631


    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    the consumer at a bike shop that likes the idea of a swappable battery, but a bare 18650 in their backpack concerns them.
    It doesn't have to be bare, there are good boxes for transportation.
    XTAR New Battery Case

  56. #656
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    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light? Can't it be integrated any better, matching the profile of existing components better? Perhaps hug the bar, making use of space behind and in front of the bar, like that clug bike storage thing? Or perhaps span the front of the stem plate and be designed to take a frontal hit? Certain riser bars sweep up and back very soon, making the aim kind of off, making me think of getting an extension bar for mounting stuff.

    At the same time, spread out the mass over a helmet? I recall a helmet light that followed the width-wise curve of a helmet, sort of hugging the top. Don't want a really high CoG that is prone to tipping and catching low branches.

    Asking, since I broke 3 lights this year through crashes. Broke a few "out-front" GPS mounts too, shearing off tabs off Garmins through lawn darting rock rolls (K-Edge out-front Garmin mount w/o plastic insert), or just leaning a bike by the handlebar and later hearing it fall, and seeing a broken Barfly out-front. Now running mounts that protect things behind and below the bar. I guess I'm one of the types that doesn't care about how much things weigh on scales as much as how the weight is carried.

    I suppose Knog has been trying to answer this question, but I don't see any lights from 'em that put out 1200+ lumens in a pattern that I need for hours at a time.

  57. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light? Can't it be integrated any better, matching the profile of existing components better? Perhaps hug the bar, making use of space behind and in front of the bar, like that clug bike storage thing? Or perhaps span the front of the stem plate and be designed to take a frontal hit? Certain riser bars sweep up and back very soon, making the aim kind of off, making me think of getting an extension bar for mounting stuff.

    At the same time, spread out the mass over a helmet? I recall a helmet light that followed the width-wise curve of a helmet, sort of hugging the top. Don't want a really high CoG that is prone to tipping and catching low branches.

    Asking, since I broke 3 lights this year through crashes. Broke a few "out-front" GPS mounts too, shearing off tabs off Garmins through lawn darting rock rolls (K-Edge out-front Garmin mount w/o plastic insert), or just leaning a bike by the handlebar and later hearing it fall, and seeing a broken Barfly out-front. Now running mounts that protect things behind and below the bar. I guess I'm one of the types that doesn't care about how much things weigh on scales as much as how the weight is carried.

    I suppose Knog has been trying to answer this question, but I don't see any lights from 'em that put out 1200+ lumens in a pattern that I need for hours at a time.
    Reading your post I kept thinking about Gloworm's excellent mounts. Pictures using the physically large Outbound lighthead show it can be mounted slightly below the stem. Using Gloworms lightheads (side mounted) you can run the mount straight down from the bars totally protecting the light. These mounts will work with any light with a Gopro style interface.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----001.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----003.jpg

  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is above-the-handlebar, offset to one side of the stem, really the best place to mount a light?

    Nope.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----dscn2183.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----cimg1051.jpg
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  59. #659
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    My personal fave right now is the Range Stem with the gopro mount installed. I have it on my Stache as a permanent location for the trail light:

    https://www.pnwcomponents.com/produc...r-garmin-mount
    OutboundLighting.com
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  60. #660
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    FYI our site has been broken all day. Will update when it's back online.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    My personal fave right now is the Range Stem with the gopro mount installed. I have it on my Stache as a permanent location for the trail light:

    https://www.pnwcomponents.com/produc...r-garmin-mount
    Saw that on your IG and Iím planning to put one on my fatbike, since it sees most of my night riding.

  62. #662
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    ya someone took Vancs idea off here and ran with it lol.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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  63. #663
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    I would be nice to a remote to control the intensity of the light.

  64. #664
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    I ordered the downhill package and I got to give the road version a try this evening. I am in no way a light nerd but I was generally impressed. As others have noted, the beam is adequate. If I was to nitpick I would want the hot spot to be up a little higher. Basically right at the cutoff to draw my focus away from the bike a bit. As was mentioned this is a pretty nitpicky request. My other observation is that cornering to the left is tough. It is an inherent limitation in any light with a cutoff, I would assume. As the bike leans over the cutoff is leaned into the ground well short of where you actually need to see. So the faster you are going i.e. the more the bike is leaned over the less light you have ahead of the turn.

    The build quality of this thing is outstanding. I went ahead and bought a handlebar clamp and go pro mount from gloworm (action-led). It's a great mounting solution and lets me keep the go pro mount on the road light for helmet use on the MTB. I am looking forward to trying that combo but I think it will be a few weeks yet.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----2018091.jpg

  65. #665
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    Have you ever wonder having a TV without a remote? I'm just saying most bike equipment now have remote. Seat post and shocks. Why not put remote on headlight for safety reason and convinient... i'm just saying....

  66. #666
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    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.

  67. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.
    I tend to agree. I see a remote as a "nice to have" feature...maybe. I've never ridden with a remote for lights so I don't know. I could see it potentially being useful for a helmet light or for simultaneous control of a bar/helmet combination.

    Personally, I don't want a lot of clutter on the bars from more levers or switches. The other consideration would be battery life. I don't want to waste any available power from the battery on a wireless radio. I'd rather keep that power for making light.

  68. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    I tend to agree. I see a remote as a "nice to have" feature...maybe. I've never ridden with a remote for lights so I don't know. I could see it potentially being useful for a helmet light or for simultaneous control of a bar/helmet combination.

    Personally, I don't want a lot of clutter on the bars from more levers or switches. The other consideration would be battery life. I don't want to waste any available power from the battery on a wireless radio. I'd rather keep that power for making light.
    Agreed. I usually have my lights low for climbing, high for descending, and off for breaks and mothering up. I never adjust the brightness while riding. I also donít leave my lights on the bike all the time, so thatís just more to fuss with when putting them on.

    A TV is across the room. My lights are well within reach.

  69. #669
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    I rather take the compromise of simplicity and robustness over various luxuries added on. Feature creep is to blame for a lot of half baked junk on the market. That and cost cutting...

    Kind of unrealistic to go look at the competition, say Supernova ebike lights, Light and Motion, Gloworm, Knog, etc., and ask for someone else to take the best of their ideas and improve upon it somehow. Or take standards out-of-industry, like XT60 or XT90 connectors, and try and get people to adopt them at cost of compatibility with current standards. Or just expect too much for the price, like criticizing stock chargers to be junk, compared to hobby chargers.

    Breaking the habit of spec-sheet shopping, and perhaps comparing the product to something I can actually make something myself (e.g. my own battery pack), does wonders to keep my perspective down to Earth.

    BTW, what happened to the How-It's-Made page? Kind of wanted to look up how solder joints were avoided again.

  70. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    So as someone who night rides a lot, I can't possibly imagine why a remote is so necessary. Its not like you are 30ft away from the button. Like literally its 10" away from your grips...and I cant ever think of a reason why I would need to turn my light off or change the brightness so fast that I cant reach 10" to touch the button...someone enlighten me.
    Well I've definitely been in situations where I was bombing down technical sections where I wish I could let go of the bars to change the light level, but didn't dare because it was too much risk. Perhaps it was poor planning on my part; perhaps it was due to unfamiliarity with the trail, either way it still happens.

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  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Agreed. I usually have my lights low for climbing, high for descending, and off for breaks and mothering up. I never adjust the brightness while riding. I also donít leave my lights on the bike all the time, so thatís just more to fuss with when putting them on.

    A TV is across the room. My lights are well within reach.
    This.

    I also appreciate simplicity, and would rather use all of the available power and battery for functioning the light, rather than the remote, and not have one more thing to possibly break.

    I'm also a set it and forget it rider. I just ride with my OL light in adaptive mode, get nearly 4 hours of light out of it, and never mess with it lol

  72. #672
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    Not saying there will never be an optional remote on future products, but for the first round of products I focused on what was key to a good light, the actual light part.

    As others mentioned, feature creep, scope increase, and increased costs were all reasons I opted to forgo a remote. In it's place I specifically designed the light to have a massive single button right on top that is easy to reach and quick to react with a light touch. Tried out about 10 different switches for the PCB until deciding on one that felt justttt right.

    Maybe in the future will have the remote, bluetooth app, ANT+ compatibility, etc. But I am just one guy right now, so I have to pick my battles. The key differentiator with the Outbound products is the very long battery life thanks to the optimized beam patterns, not to mention the build quality, the actual beam pattern, and the customer service.

    As for that How-It's-Made-Page, once the website is working 100% again it'll be added back! A couple other new pages are in the works as well such as a bit better comparison page. If you visit the site right now you'll notice a weird double-header thing going on with the product pages. Waiting for the website guru guys to fix that... I've tried all I can.
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  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Well I've definitely been in situations where I was bombing down technical sections where I wish I could let go of the bars to change the light level, but didn't dare because it was too much risk. Perhaps it was poor planning on my part; perhaps it was due to unfamiliarity with the trail, either way it still happens.

    -Garry
    I've had this happen too.

    I'm in the camp of liking a wired remote, but I would not have one if it eliminated more desirable features or could cause a reliability issue. I build them into my bar and helmet lights because I can and there is really no penalty. A wired remote uses no additional power so runtime is not affected. In reality, wireless remote power consumption can be made so low that a runtime reduction would barely be able to be noticed.

    Some of the preference for switching output while riding may come from the lights I used when starting night riding. With my old halogen setups from the late 90s you had high and low. A crazy heavy battery that would run just a hair over an hour on high made you pretty conscientious about clicking to low whenever the trail allowed and only using high when it was really needed.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  74. #674
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    Yea, the long battery life just makes me keep it on high/adaptive all the time. Every time I stop for an extended time (long traffic light, or waiting for ride buddies), I turn it off; it's more to manage its heat, than to manage battery life. Simple to put a foot down and use 1 hand for each light to hold the button, and repeat before setting off, perhaps clicking again to set the brightness.

    I wonder about lights automatically doing this, but wouldn't want it to turn off completely unless it detected absolutely no movement for 10 minutes. Maybe switch to low after 5 minutes of low movement.

  75. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I've had this happen too.

    I'm in the camp of liking a wired remote, but I would not have one if it eliminated more desirable features or could cause a reliability issue.
    That pretty much sums up how I feel about remotes. I have 11 different lightheads with either wired or wireless remotes. Remote failures and/or remote related mode switching inconsistencies are by far the most common complaint/problem I've had with all my lights. Done correctly the remote option can be a very nice but not essential feature, done incorrectly (no mode switch on lighthead, poor remote body bar interface/mounting design, weak signal, toooo large, wired remote that plugs into usb port) remotes can be a giant PITA.
    Mole

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    I'm just curious where a remote mounts on the bars that makes it so much more convenient? Post pics for science

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    I'm just curious where a remote mounts on the bars that makes it so much more convenient? Post pics for science
    Here is the typical location for the bar light. Right at the RH grip,
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p1020190.jpg

    This is how I've ended up doing it for the helmet. Requires removing hand from bars which is not ideal, but having the fairly large switch right over the temple is much easier/quicker to actuate than a switch on the top of the light. You don't have to move your hand quite as far.
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----dscn1079.jpg
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  78. #678
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    James in the UK got the Downhill package and has been getting some incredible pictures recently!

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9231500.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9231541-2-1-.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----p9241576-3.jpg
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  79. #679
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    Sometimes just have to jump on the bandwagon.

    I'd be lying though if I didn't say I love this meme.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----mothlamp.jpg
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  80. #680
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    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.

  81. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.
    Always a loaded question.

    When at biking speed (average about 10-15mph) then 20-30W (roughly) is sustainable. Obviously stopping or slowing down will reduce that. Also the design of the lighthead plays a big part in it. That's why I HAD to do die-cast design, no way to get the properly sized fins required on a CNC machine or through an extrusion like most cheap lights are done.

    Then of course the ambient temperature plays another big part.

    For myself, if I started pushing 25-30W, that's when I would be looking into active cooling so that it's still outputting properly at slower speeds or higher ambient temps. I notice that the Alpha doesn't have any air scoops or anything to force cooling air back behind the lamp where the majority of the heat is being generated. So I have a feeling it'll be like any other "omgultrahighpower" lamp, where it's impressive for about 30 seconds until it overheats and pulls power down. So people will be paying out the butt for 70W of power, but only be able to effectively use 30W or so of it, at most.

    Thats why to me.... 30-35W is sort of the "maximum" that a bike light will ever need to be. That's already like having two high power modern day car LED headlights on your bike at that point. That's roughly 3000-3500 lumens of real usable light that's doable with the right cooling and thermal load spreading. Just absolutely would need things in a shell that would avoid having the user touch the case if wanted to push it.
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  82. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Matt,

    With your existing light head design, what's the maximum power output that could be sustained without active cooling and without the thermal protection kicking in?

    I'm curious because I see that the new Lupine Alpha has a 70-watt maximum output. I suspect full power wouldn't be sustainable for long.
    ever seen an output graph for lupine? looks the the ocean, all waves because unless in cool temps and at decent speeds they cant maintain near max output because they are far too small for their max output. See as the size of automotive lights that produce the same lumens are literally 3x the size so they arent reliant on thermal protection and all that other stuff, many companies are going way too far beyond limits just to give pretty numbers. At least Lupine is high quality design and product but laws of physics catch even the best eventually. As well as dont get hung up on wattage (or lumens). Its more about how the light output is used versus how much there is.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RAKC Ind; 09-29-2018 at 08:52 PM.
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  83. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Always a loaded question.

    When at biking speed (average about 10-15mph) then 20-30W (roughly) is sustainable. Obviously stopping or slowing down will reduce that. Also the design of the lighthead plays a big part in it. That's why I HAD to do die-cast design, no way to get the properly sized fins required on a CNC machine or through an extrusion like most cheap lights are done.

    Then of course the ambient temperature plays another big part.

    For myself, if I started pushing 25-30W, that's when I would be looking into active cooling so that it's still outputting properly at slower speeds or higher ambient temps. I notice that the Alpha doesn't have any air scoops or anything to force cooling air back behind the lamp where the majority of the heat is being generated. So I have a feeling it'll be like any other "omgultrahighpower" lamp, where it's impressive for about 30 seconds until it overheats and pulls power down. So people will be paying out the butt for 70W of power, but only be able to effectively use 30W or so of it, at most.

    Thats why to me.... 30-35W is sort of the "maximum" that a bike light will ever need to be. That's already like having two high power modern day car LED headlights on your bike at that point. That's roughly 3000-3500 lumens of real usable light that's doable with the right cooling and thermal load spreading. Just absolutely would need things in a shell that would avoid having the user touch the case if wanted to push it.
    Thanks for your reply. That's why I'm running your Road/Trail combo in place of my Betty. My Betty can sustain only 16W at climbing speeds; at the next higher power level--22W--it'll step-down after about 15 minutes. Very irksome, especially since I paid "out the butt." Ouch!

  84. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Thanks for your reply. That's why I'm running your Road/Trail combo in place of my Betty. My Betty can sustain only 16W at climbing speeds; at the next higher power level--22W--it'll step-down after about 15 minutes. Very irksome, especially since I paid "out the butt." Ouch!
    Sounds pretty much exactly what I've noticed in my own testing, simulation, and real world results not only with automotive but also with bike lights.

    You can actually run LED heatsinks pretty hot if designed properly. OEM's have been getting more agressive with the heatsink size inside headlights. Used to be a lot of the headlights had big heatsinks and big fans pushing a lot of air (Mini Cooper, Mercedes Benz) to keep things cool. However I think they are starting to get a little more comfortable, and the LED tech is progressing that can have stable output at higher junction temperatures. Which means they can get rid of the fans (most unreliable part in a headlight assembly) and can start downsizing the heat sinks which reduces weight and part cost.

    The heat sink on the newest Jeep LED headlights on the wrangler and the cherokee is actually fairly small given the power they are putting out. Some trick stuff going on inside of it that I won't disclose since I might be applying it to future products.

    But do know that in LED tech on the automotive side, the biggest strides aren't in lumen output, no one cares about that anymore, we can get all the lumens we need. The biggest strides are in the junction temperature stability, emitter size reduction (getting down to sub 0.5mm^2), heat sink design, and more importantly the optical design. The rise of electric cars has put a huge focus on power reduction across all portions of the car to eek out more electric range. Headlights are one of the biggest power suckers so a LOT of work is being put into making more efficient headlights optically.

    The traditional projector type optics with a cutoff shade is only 40-45% efficient, which means the HID bulb that outputs nearly 2500 lumens, is only actually putting down 1000 lumens on the road. So two headlights are putting down 2000 lumens for a high end car. Even the most advanced LED projector optics are now only about 50-55% efficient, mostly because of losses through bounces, materials, and more.

    That's why there is a big push on reflectors and TIR style of optics. Not just a typical bowl spot TIR though, very complex surfaces to shape and mold the light exactly what it needs to be. Check out this cool little paper about the materials of lighting, and can see some of the interesting optics, particularly on the F-150.

    http://read.nxtbook.com/wiley/plasti...lities_pl.html
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  85. #685
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    Hi Matt,

    I just ordered the trail edition this morning.

    Will it come with the updated strap?

    Thanks

  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendoe5010 View Post
    Hi Matt,

    I just ordered the trail edition this morning.

    Will it come with the updated strap?

    Thanks
    Yep! All lights since late July have the updated straps.

    Thanks for the order!
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  87. #687
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    Speaking of automotive tech, does the Outbound light have any long term issue with UV exposure?

    The anti-UV coating on autos wears out, which I hope could be fixed more permanently perhaps through material choice, but I suspect they care more about looks, than function and ownership experience. Something well engineered should be simple to use, working "invisibly" without complaint.

    IMO, if people were hesitant to bad mouth the bad decisions of others, I'd imagine that they're in a glass house and are fearful of the retaliation. When you're comparing a $200 light to a $20 light, I can't give you much respect. Compare to the ones marketed to be the latest and greatest, and now you're talking. Can create pride in ownership, which results in better word-of-mouth, if you show how your product is valuable. The talk about temp management evolving to be lighter and smaller is a good start. Respect for that, for showing how much more intelligently you are ahead when compared to others, in a way that makes others feel empowered for choosing you.

    Waiting for a helmet light which is lower profile and has longer throw, to be specifically used with the original on the bars. Hopefully one that's more optimized for high speed riding in open areas (e.g. deserts). Also looking forward to a rear light that makes overtakers give you more space--perhaps making beam pattern that creates a rectangular box of red light which sort of outlines a "no entry" zone.

    You told me that these was these last light I'd buy, but I'm not yet convinced. Still riding conservatively, compared to how I ride during the day. I imagine the case would be different under a tree canopy where natural sun light is more limited, and these light things up more than during the day.

  88. #688
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    I got a lot of water in my light today on a very rainy ride, any thoughts on how to best get rid of it? I know it has a vent hole somewhere but I don't think running it till it dries out is practical and I'm sure there will be some spotty residue left on the back of the lens if I do that. Ideas?

  89. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision Man View Post
    I got a lot of water in my light today on a very rainy ride, any thoughts on how to best get rid of it? I know it has a vent hole somewhere but I don't think running it till it dries out is practical and I'm sure there will be some spotty residue left on the back of the lens if I do that. Ideas?
    PM'ed you. But is it actual standing water or just condensation? Condensation is to be expected since there is a drastic humidity difference combined with the higher heat inside. The breather vent will help balance that out after some time, shouldn't leave any residue.

    If actual water inside, then let's talk and I'll get that taken care of, and figure out how that happened, shouldn't be happening on a rainy ride. Now if you went diving... maybe.
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    You are fast, I PM'd you back, thanks!

    You're awesome, thanks for the return label. Now if only my power meter crank arm Kickstarter experience had been as positive when it had its issue...

  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Speaking of automotive tech, does the Outbound light have any long term issue with UV exposure?

    The anti-UV coating on autos wears out, which I hope could be fixed more permanently perhaps through material choice, but I suspect they care more about looks, than function and ownership experience. Something well engineered should be simple to use, working "invisibly" without complaint.
    That's the beauty of the silicone lens material. It's extremely UV resistant and doesn't need an external coating: https://www.momentive.com/WorkArea/D...?id=4294968078

    Although I would argue that even a normal PMMA lens for a bike light won't be seeing the degradation that an automotive headlight would. There are coatings applied as you mentioned but even if I did a plastic lens in the future I probably wouldn't bother with it. A bike light typically isn't left on the bike outside for days or years on end.

    IMO, if people were hesitant to bad mouth the bad decisions of others, I'd imagine that they're in a glass house and are fearful of the retaliation. When you're comparing a $200 light to a $20 light, I can't give you much respect. Compare to the ones marketed to be the latest and greatest, and now you're talking. Can create pride in ownership, which results in better word-of-mouth, if you show how your product is valuable. The talk about temp management evolving to be lighter and smaller is a good start. Respect for that, for showing how much more intelligently you are ahead when compared to others, in a way that makes others feel empowered for choosing you.
    I have made comparisons before to the more expensive lights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtc9PRFJHo). Not against doing comparisons at all. Just that the first thing most people do is try to compare to their cheap $20 light and how "I could buy 10 of these for the same price".

    One thing I hope to start doing is posting the teardowns of lots of different types of lights, from cheap to expensive along with comparisons in performance. I have taken apart a LOT of them to figure out some manufacturing tricks, benchmark, cost analysis, etc. Some really interesting things, and some appalling things in the most expensive of lights.

    Waiting for a helmet light which is lower profile and has longer throw, to be specifically used with the original on the bars. Hopefully one that's more optimized for high speed riding in open areas (e.g. deserts). Also looking forward to a rear light that makes overtakers give you more space--perhaps making beam pattern that creates a rectangular box of red light which sort of outlines a "no entry" zone.
    A self contained light is next up, and I hope to do a taillight as well. Just had to spend all the profit built up on the next re-order over the last few weeks so I'm back to nil. I have designs getting worked on in my spare time and once I speed up production with this next reorder I'll be able to focus some more effort on that, and start the prototyping/development phase.
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  92. #692
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    Post this on the social media channels, but will update here.

    TLDR; going to be out of stock for a few weeks, so if you are thinking of buying, now is the time to do it. As of 10/3 I have enough PCB's for 30 lights.

    Hey guys! Little update. Turns out sales growth has massively outpaced my planning! Not getting another batch of PCB boards in until October 30th at the latest. When the re-order was placed a while back I was hoping to be selling 2-3 lights a day, recently it's been almost double that!

    As a result I am extremely limited on the number of lights I'll be able to ship immediately.

    So if you are thinking about buying, I'd highly suggest getting one sooner rather than later. As of today I have around 30 lights left. I will try to update with an accurate inventory count as we get closer to being temporarily out of stock. Will 100% be back in stock and shipping at the end of the month, but I know this is

    For those of you that have ordered, THANK YOU! Things are growing fast and you guys are the reason!

    -Matt Conte
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  93. #693
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    Tried this setup out last night and it worked surprisingly well. Extra throw combo'd with the OB road added more usable reach to the beam. Hope the planned self-contained light will have equal or better performance to this Bontrager with some better mounting options (lower profile).
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----003.jpg

  94. #694
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    Matt,

    Could you tell us something about the charger? If I leave the battery pack charging overnight, will the charger detect full charge and safely cut off, or maybe switch over to a trickle charge? If it switches to a trickle charge, is there any benefit or any harm in leaving the pack charging for many hours? Thanks.

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    I received my Trail this week, and I'm leaning heavily towards a Road for my helmet also.

    Other options I'm considering are the Gloworm Alpha based on recommendations in this thread, and the L&M Trail 1000. Anyone use both the Road and another option on the helmet? I don't currently have a lot of high speed sections, so long distances aren't a huge factor. I'm also not looking for a remote.

  96. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahoogan View Post
    I received my Trail this week, and I'm leaning heavily towards a Road for my helmet also.

    Other options I'm considering are the Gloworm Alpha based on recommendations in this thread, and the L&M Trail 1000. Anyone use both the Road and another option on the helmet? I don't currently have a lot of high speed sections, so long distances aren't a huge factor. I'm also not looking for a remote.
    I tried the trail(bar)/road(helmet) and it worked very well. "Blends well" is good descriptive way to put it as the road version keeps the nice smooth wide beam but extends overall reach out another approx. 25% (my guess). Alpha is more of a hot spot in the beam but has quite a bit more throw so better for higher speeds. L&M Trail 1000 (not used one) is probably more like the Alpha but also one of those high powered single cell self-contained lights that trades high lumen numbers in the first few minutes at the expense of lower amounts through the rest of the runtime. Retail to retail the Bontrager Ion 1300 is considerably less money and maintains a significant power advantage through the entire runtime. Here's a pretty rough approximation of power to time curves. Higher output dark line (forgive my poor freehand skills) represents numbers I got from my Ion 1300. Drawback to the Ion is extra weight.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----8945a874-97be-4269-9cf4-2d4a21811d78.jpg
    Click to expand.

  97. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I tried the trail(bar)/road(helmet) and it worked very well. "Blends well" is good descriptive way to put it as the road version keeps the nice smooth wide beam but extends overall reach out another approx. 25% (my guess). Alpha is more of a hot spot in the beam but has quite a bit more throw so better for higher speeds. L&M Trail 1000 (not used one) is probably more like the Alpha but also one of those high powered single cell self-contained lights that trades high lumen numbers in the first few minutes at the expense of lower amounts through the rest of the runtime. Retail to retail the Bontrager Ion 1300 is considerably less money and maintains a significant power advantage through the entire runtime. Here's a pretty rough approximation of power to time curves. Higher output dark line (forgive my poor freehand skills) represents numbers I got from my Ion 1300. Drawback to the Ion is extra weight.
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click to expand.
    Thank you for the feedback. I'm going to start with getting extra weight mounted to my current helmet setup to mimic the Road and Ion weights. I'll narrow down my choices based on how much the weight differences affect me. If the weight isn't a big factor, I'll go with the Road to complete the package.
    Last edited by mahoogan; 10-12-2018 at 01:12 PM.

  98. #698
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    6 cell please!



    I haven't seen anyone elso mention this but on some of my longer rides I'm not able to access the higher modes for the last portion of the ride. Once battery level goes down to 3 lights the second to the lowest mode is as high as the light will stay at and once down to 2 lights the lowest mode. Is this the way it's supposed to work? Not an issue when using the road version since I normally run it at the second to lowest mode anyway but it does limit the trail as I prefer using the higher modes. I'd been using older Ituo batteries for mounting reasons and had just assumed they were getting weaker and causing this but finally got around to meter testing using the newer OB battery and a fairly new 8400 M-tiger 6 cell battery I have. Running in the highest mode with the OB battery fan cooled in my kitchen the light lasted 70 min. till it stepped down to the second from lowest mode and 2:20 down to the lowest mode. Same test with the 6 cell battery netted 1:50 running at the highest level and continues at the second to lowest mode till approx 3:30. I'm thinking this must have something to do with the emergency power reserve settings cause at the end of the last test I plugged the battery into a BT40 that was sitting nearby and it powered up to its normal max lux readings. Whatever the cause I'd say if you do long rides and like to use the higher settings on your light getting a higher capacity battery is probably a good idea.
    Mole

  99. #699
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    Not alone on that, I assumed the first time it was the fact I was using an SS case (just charged and balanced because I use it to charge bluetooth speaker and phone). But did it on a 6800mah Panasonic pack too. Was just assuming it was the connectors not jiving well. Broke out my CR900 for the rest of that ride

    Next ride Went to the 6 cell for my Theia and no issues but that ride was only an hour roughly. Also wondered if I had gone into adaptive mode accidently.

    Now I am wondering if I need to put a pack together specifically for this light that will keep voltage high enough for the majority of the run time.

    Hopefully just missed something or goofed settings (or even using a bigger pack as I got lighthead only) because by far the best road riding light out there IMHO. And about to get A LOT OF USE because I think I can start trying to ride again but smooth pavement (or gravel with fat tires) only.

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  100. #700
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    Thought that was weird too. Just isn't as bright towards the end of the ride. Turned my bar mounted OB Trail off and on and it seemed locked to the 3rd brightest setting, the button not seeming to have any function but to show I'm in the 3rd mode, after about 1.5 hrs of use. I ride about 4 hours, with first 1.5h being bright enough to ride without the light. People ask me what I'm running, and I just tell 'em it's a kickstarter light from Outbound. By the last hour, other lights around me are able to overpower my light.

    Not a complaint, since it's functional. Love how 2 combine to make a nice even carpet of light. Just something that my senses picked up on that I stored in the back of my mind. Honestly never purposely put it into the lower 3 settings except in my garage when I first got them. I turn it to adaptive and leave it there, sometimes just leaving it on at rest stops, since I trust the battery capacity.

    Were also times I notice the 4th light flickering, which I understand is the battery life gauge/voltage reading? Sometimes it stops flickering and just returns to a solid 4th light.

  101. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post


    Hopefully just missed something or goofed settings (or even using a bigger pack as I got lighthead only) because by far the best road riding light out there IMHO. And about to get A LOT OF USE because I think I can start trying to ride again but smooth pavement (or gravel with fat tires) only.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    That's great to hear as long as it's Doctor approved. Happy for you buddy!!

    Now I am wondering if I need to put a pack together specifically for this light that will keep voltage high enough for the majority of the run time.
    Eventually that might be a good idea. For the moment I'm thinking existing runtime is far greater than the endurance of your surgically repaired shoulder.
    Alright I'm done preaching, just be careful.
    Mole

  102. #702
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    The forcing of the lower modes is something that is going to be fixed in a programming change. Basically there as a safeguard to make sure never going to be left in the dark unexpectedly, but got too aggressive on the programming, and should have put in the function to allow an override once selected again.

    The flickering is another programming thing that was sent to my EE guy to look into some more. Basically the PID control needs to be softened up on the status light instead of bouncing back and forth and providing instantaneous readings on the battery, which can sometimes bounce when the controller is sampling the voltage.

    Will be trying to figure out a way to get people who want the new programming update to get updated.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  103. #703
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    Took the road version and an old 7800 6 cell battery for about 2.5 hrs. on the Beargrease. Spent most of the ride in the second from lowest setting and used highest level sparingly leaving four dots lit on the lighthead at the end and access to all the mode levels (6 cell works good).
    Mole
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 02-10-2019 at 08:17 PM.

  104. #704
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenkiS14 View Post
    I'm just curious where a remote mounts on the bars that makes it so much more convenient? Post pics for science
    Here are some pictures of the (illuminated) Specialized Flux remote control:
    Quote Originally Posted by angerdan View Post
    So is there a technical option included to maybe add an remote control later?
    This would be the third very big advantage over the SPecialized Flux expert (besides higher lumens and runtime).

    What i really like are the illuminated buttons:
    Specialized Flux Expert headlight review - Mtbr.com
    Quote Originally Posted by angerdan View Post

  105. #705
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    I'd love to be able to override the forced stepdown. My rides don't venture too far so I won't be stranded deep in the woods. I'd rather have max available brightness for as long as possible.

  106. #706
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    The Outbound Lighting Road Edition was selected and purchased, largely based on information gleaned from reading this really long and detailed topic. I was very enamored with the optical design, prior to purchase. After purchase I was also impressed with lots of other features, like the thermal management and the handlebar mount, to name a few.

    The headlight is performing as-expected.

    This topic details my impressions and evaluation of the headlight.
    2011 Trek 1.2 Road Bike 58 cm
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  107. #707
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    Always happy to be back doing lighting design.

    Since I quit my full-time lighting engineering job in August, I've been without the software required for real lighting design. Not anymore! Upgraded my workstation and got my favorite software going again.

    Been working on some high level concepts for a while now, but now starting to get into the more nitty gritty details. It's a totally different approach to lighting than what everyone else has done, with a huge focus on runtime, weight and of course, the beam pattern.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----happy.jpg
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  108. #708
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    As the owner of the road model, I'd be interested in receiving this update
    Also, and I forgot, I never received the new and improved silicone strap that was mooted as an upgrade.

    regards.

    MOB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    The forcing of the lower modes is something that is going to be fixed in a programming change. Basically there as a safeguard to make sure never going to be left in the dark unexpectedly, but got too aggressive on the programming, and should have put in the function to allow an override once selected again.

    The flickering is another programming thing that was sent to my EE guy to look into some more. Basically the PID control needs to be softened up on the status light instead of bouncing back and forth and providing instantaneous readings on the battery, which can sometimes bounce when the controller is sampling the voltage.

    Will be trying to figure out a way to get people who want the new programming update to get updated.

  109. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOBH View Post
    As the owner of the road model, I'd be interested in receiving this update
    Also, and I forgot, I never received the new and improved silicone strap that was mooted as an upgrade.

    regards.

    MOB.
    Sent you a PM regarding the straps!
    OutboundLighting.com
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  110. #710
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    Got word from the SMT house that we'll have boards by next week as planned. We've got a pretty big backlog of orders that kept coming so it'll be quite busy soon!

    Did get some new updated castings for a dimensional check before the next run. Some small internal improvements to help with first time quality, reducing the amount of rework, and improving production speed. Nothing external changed. But looks great in the raw!

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----castin3.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----castin2.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----casting1.jpg
    OutboundLighting.com
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  111. #711
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    So I did my first night ride of the season yesterday with the Trail edition. I bought the downhill package but wanted to see if just the trail edition on the bars would be enough. I would describe it as adequate. It is enough light even getting around corners. I am looking forward to putting the road edition on my helmet on my next ride. I have a feeling that will be damn near like riding in daylight.

  112. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    So I did my first night ride of the season yesterday with the Trail edition. I bought the downhill package but wanted to see if just the trail edition on the bars would be enough. I would describe it as adequate. It is enough light even getting around corners. I am looking forward to putting the road edition on my helmet on my next ride. I have a feeling that will be damn near like riding in daylight.
    When the lights are so good that you're comparing to daylight's lumens and beam pattern, instead of comparing to other lights... xD

  113. #713
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    I've finally gotten a few rides in the dark and I'm liking the trail version on my bars.
    On it's own I don't think I'd be satisfied as its just not super bright/not a ton of throw, but
    with the BT21 w/spot optics on my helmet the combo is awesome. Lots of light around the bike
    and good throw down trail. Tints seem to get along as well.

  114. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    When the lights are so good that you're comparing to daylight's lumens and beam pattern, instead of comparing to other lights... xD
    Haha. Yes the lights are good. I want to be clear, though. Seriously. The even spread of light is awesome and sets this apart from most other lights. The trail edition on it's own is "adequate." It was enough light to ride and be safe and even carry some speed but I was left wanting a bit more for the type of riding I do. I think the road edition on the helmet will compliment it perfectly for getting a bit more throw down the trail and peering through corners and over obstacles where a single light on the bars falls short.

    We shall see. Night riding season is upon us.

  115. #715
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    Outbound lights are out of stock.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  116. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    Haha. Yes the lights are good. I want to be clear, though. Seriously. The even spread of light is awesome and sets this apart from most other lights. The trail edition on it's own is "adequate." It was enough light to ride and be safe and even carry some speed but I was left wanting a bit more for the type of riding I do. I think the road edition on the helmet will compliment it perfectly for getting a bit more throw down the trail and peering through corners and over obstacles where a single light on the bars falls short.

    We shall see. Night riding season is upon us.
    That was exactly my sentiment and youíre exactly right. Trail on the bars and road on the helmet = daytime.

  117. #717
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    So I finally got out for a ride with the "Ultimate Downhill Package." All I can say is, "Wow!" The deficiencies of running just the trail edition on the bars were more than made up for with the addition of the road edition on the helmet. There was plenty of throw down the trail and around corners. I am really pleased with this combination!

  118. #718
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    Indeed I'm on back order. New die castings arrive early next week. All the driver boards are in, and will be able to fulfill about 60 of the current back orders. By that point I'm fresh out of batteries until late next week, so I hope to be fully back in stock right before thanksgiving.

    I had no plans to grow this fast, I figured it was going to take a year to get to this kind of growth and it's what I planned my initial ordering on. It's a good problem to have, but still a problem.

    The backlog right now is 120+ lights, but I can bang out about 80 in a day now with my improvements to the assembly process so as soon as parts are in, lights are going out the door!

  119. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Indeed I'm on back order. New die castings arrive early next week. All the driver boards are in, and will be able to fulfill about 60 of the current back orders. By that point I'm fresh out of batteries until late next week, so I hope to be fully back in stock right before thanksgiving.

    I had no plans to grow this fast, I figured it was going to take a year to get to this kind of growth and it's what I planned my initial ordering on. It's a good problem to have, but still a problem.

    The backlog right now is 120+ lights, but I can bang out about 80 in a day now with my improvements to the assembly process so as soon as parts are in, lights are going out the door!
    I get that you are super busy but have you had a chance to figure out how you might be able to distribute a software/programming update to current light owners to prevent the output from stepping down once battery capacity is depleted to "3 bars?"

  120. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    I get that you are super busy but have you had a chance to figure out how you might be able to distribute a software/programming update to current light owners to prevent the output from stepping down once battery capacity is depleted to "3 bars?"
    I am interested to know this as well.

  121. #721
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    when will outbound restock their lights?

  122. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    when will outbound restock their lights?
    Seems like that was answered a few posts back... post# 718 says....

    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound
    ...... so I hope to be fully back in stock right before thanksgiving.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  123. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    I get that you are super busy but have you had a chance to figure out how you might be able to distribute a software/programming update to current light owners to prevent the output from stepping down once battery capacity is depleted to "3 bars?"
    It would be great if this happens but don't ignore the plug-in solution of just getting a larger capacity battery. I was curious just how long you could run the lights in high mode (level 2) and maintain full output. I also have access to a 8400 mAh 6 cell battery (6200 mAh stock) so I ran both to the stepdown point with the results being stock battery 69 min. and M-tiger 6 cell lasting for 130 min. 2:10 of runtime in high is a big improvement and there's a lot higher capacity good quality 6 cell batteries out there that are reasonably priced if you need more high mode time.
    Mole

  124. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    It would be great if this happens but don't ignore the plug-in solution of just getting a larger capacity battery. I was curious just how long you could run the lights in high mode (level 2) and maintain full output. I also have access to a 8400 mAh 6 cell battery (6200 mAh stock) so I ran both to the stepdown point with the results being stock battery 69 min. and M-tiger 6 cell lasting for 130 min. 2:10 of runtime in high is a big improvement and there's a lot higher capacity good quality 6 cell batteries out there that are reasonably priced if you need more high mode time.
    Mole
    You make a very valid point. I may just do exactly what you suggest.

    I don't really need more run time. My after work rides are usually an hour or maybe an hour and a half long and almost always start before sunset. It's more that I would like to have control over the output. I understand the logic behind having it step down but my use case doesn't leave me stranded deep in the woods trying to avoid becoming dinner to some hungry wildlife if my battery is depleted. For me having full output for a longer duration at the risk of running the battery flat is not a problem.

  125. #725
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    hmm the more i hear about these lights the more I notice how my current lights can't show me into the corners!

    ordered
    Last edited by BCsaltchucker; 11-24-2018 at 11:31 PM.

  126. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptimmy43 View Post
    I get that you are super busy but have you had a chance to figure out how you might be able to distribute a software/programming update to current light owners to prevent the output from stepping down once battery capacity is depleted to "3 bars?"
    Quote Originally Posted by bills8 View Post
    I am interested to know this as well.
    I third this ^

  127. #727
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    Incoming feature request, maybe for some future version of this light or the one with integrated batter you're working on. Offer a super-low brightness setting, (>100 lumens, maybe 50?). I often use my bike light as a light for setting up camp, and I'd just be draining the battery unnecessarily at 400lumen (let alone I don't like it that bright for setting up camp/cooking food).

  128. #728
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    Welcome to the forum.

    The linear LED array used in the headlight has a specified minimum operating current. My guess is the existing low setting is already near that minimum current (intensity).

    One way to implement an effective lower intensity would be to pulse on/off the LED within e specified operating current range, but at a lower duty cycle and at a high enough frequency for the human eye to integrate the flashing so it appears as continuous illuminatin, but at a lower brightness.
    2011 Trek 1.2 Road Bike 58 cm
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  129. #729
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    Yep, what wingless said is right, because it's a 5 chip led run in series we are already at the minimum operating voltage for the lowest setting. I do wish it went lower too! There are some array chips that allow multichannel control such as the osram black flat, but poor thermal dissipation, and a more expensive multichannel driver would have negated any gains.

    As for updating older lights with the new software, I'm certainly open to having lights returned to be updated, would potentially be a week turnaround (2-3 days to get here, programmed same day, 2-3 days to get back) that I'm willing to do for anyone willing to pay for the shipping. I'll post here when ready to get into that mode.

    Right now have over 150 back orders to fulfill, along with the holiday increase in sales, and to throw another wrench into the mix my family and I are moving to Chicago at the end of the year for my wife's job. Stressful is a good word for it.

    Currently was able to fulfill some more backorders today since the new castings arrived, now waiting on batteries. Battery supplier had to delay their shipment a bit so running behind schedule again, should be back up to full strength at the end of the month. I hate this backorder business.

  130. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    As for updating older lights with the new software, I'm certainly open to having lights returned to be updated, would potentially be a week turnaround (2-3 days to get here, programmed same day, 2-3 days to get back) that I'm willing to do for anyone willing to pay for the shipping. I'll post here when ready to get into that mode.

    Mole

  131. #731
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    Sorry like a interesting solution to getting the light dimmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingless View Post
    Welcome to the forum.

    The linear LED array used in the headlight has a specified minimum operating current. My guess is the existing low setting is already near that minimum current (intensity).

    One way to implement an effective lower intensity would be to pulse on/off the LED within e specified operating current range, but at a lower duty cycle and at a high enough frequency for the human eye to integrate the flashing so it appears as continuous illuminatin, but at a lower brightness.

  132. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingless View Post
    One way to implement an effective lower intensity would be to pulse on/off the LED within e specified operating current range, but at a lower duty cycle and at a high enough frequency for the human eye to integrate the flashing so it appears as continuous illumination, but at a lower brightness.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryderjo View Post
    Sounds like a interesting solution to getting the light dimmer.
    The "high" frequency LED flashing at adjustable duty cycle is a common way to implement LED intensity changes.

    The LED has a very fast turn on and turn off time making this an effective method.

    One big detractor for this solution is that it will generate radio frequency interference that will require normal suppression methods.
    2011 Trek 1.2 Road Bike 58 cm
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  133. #733
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    How do these things mount on an out-front style GPS mount with the GoPro mount underneath?

    Out front style GPS mounts with GoPro underneath require the light to be mounted upside down. Is this light able to be mounted right-side up under a GPS mount?

    I assume upside down won't work due to cut off beam pattern.


    -Tim-

  134. #734
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    the lights the same as any other. Mount on the bottom. Not possible to mount upside down. Those out front mounts were never designed around lights, designed around using cameras.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Life on a bike doesn't begin till the sun goes down.


  135. #735
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    Been reading quite a lot on this lamp now. Has anyone in this forum ever had the chance to compare the outbound road edition to a Lupine SL or SLF?
    On their webpage a customer said it's better than the SL (regarding throw), but i'd like some pictures... Anyone from germany or austria here who owns the road edition?

    And there is the question of lumens: Are those 1500 lm (from the runtimes and the battery capacity i did calculate a 18W consumption?) measured with the final assembled light or taken from data sheets? So far i haven't found an answer to this, but could be that i missed that bit of information.

  136. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    And there is the question of lumens: Are those 1500 lm (from the runtimes and the battery capacity i did calculate a 18W consumption?) measured with the final assembled light or taken from data sheets? So far i haven't found an answer to this, but could be that i missed that bit of information.
    As soon as I get a bit more cash flow I want to snag one of the Lupine lights myself to disassemble and do some comparisons. Those things are pricey! :P

    As for the lumens, that's from the datasheet using the input power. Not just theoretical maximums like most lumen ratings. I'm not too interested in figuring out the "actual" as I'm more interested in the candella ratings at various angles, much like how automotive headlights are tested and rated. On my list this year of things I want to do is to get the light measured on a goniophotometer to get an accurate light distribution model to compare to my simulated one and figure out the discrepancies.

    Also, finally back in stock and shipping. Been perptually out of stock for almost 2 months. As soon as I got one part in stock I'd run out of another. Right now the downhill packages are on a 1 week wait due to the helmet mounts, but otherwise we are good to go to ship! Been an insane year with a lot of up's and downs, mostly up's though!

    Really looking forward to 2019 with a laser focus to slowly build and grow. Moving to Chicago soon but still maintaining the asssembly and design entirely in-house. Doing development work on a self-contained battery light to compete with the Lumina, Urban, etc. that I hope to start prototyping soon. Still in the design iterations as I have gone through at least a dozen different concepts at this point.
    OutboundLighting.com
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  137. #737
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    Are the trail and road lights the same size/weight?
    How does the road light feel mounted on top of a helmet?
    In the instance where you go out riding not sure if youíll need a light later in the evening how well do they pack into a backpack or hydration pack?

    Thanks.

  138. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDHutch View Post
    Are the trail and road lights the same size/weight?
    How does the road light feel mounted on top of a helmet?
    In the instance where you go out riding not sure if youíll need a light later in the evening how well do they pack into a backpack or hydration pack?

    Thanks.
    I believe the road and trail versions are the same weight. I think the only difference between the 2 is the internal reflector shape. I have both and mount the road version to my helmet. I don't have a ton of experience with other lights so I am not sure how it compares to others. I don't really notice it's on my helmet when I am actually riding. I usually just throw it on my helmet if I think my ride may end in darkness as I don't like wearing a pack. I am sure you could throw it in your pack just as easily.

  139. #739
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    Yep. Road and Trail are identical except for the reflector. The light head itself only weighs 100g, for reference a gopro hero6 weighs 153g. I have an extension cord that makes for just the right length to drop into a backpack or hip pack for that exact reason.

    I personally don't notice the light on my head since it's quite lightweight.

  140. #740
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    I"m so anxious to try my light out. It looks great.
    Waiting for doc's release to resume riding which can NOT come soon enough.

  141. #741
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    Hey,
    I'm in the market for a new bike light to stop blinding people on the road with my BT40s (which is pretty nice in the woods).
    I've already got a strong light battery (2S3P NCR18650GA) so I'm looking for a lighthead only.
    I found the trail edition lighthead: https://www.outboundlighting.com/pro...ion-lighthead/ but can't find the road one on your site.

    I've also recently converted my bike to an e-bike with a Bafang BBSHD and a DIY 14S10P battery so I'm probably going to run the light from a DC-DC converter.
    It's great that your light can do up to 14V, I'll probably end up running it at 12V in the future.

    It's probably also worth mentioning that I'm from Europe (Austria), the shop is showing me $27 for shipping, which seems alright.
    However with 20% import taxes + fees that's gonna put this light at around 200Ä, so I'll probably wait a bit with ordering and see if I can get a friend or so to take it with them on a plane to Europe.

    Since you mentioned firmware issues, do you have a solution for firmware updates yet? It's obviously not feasible for me to ship the light from EU to US and back. I've got plenty of equipment and knowledge to flash MCUs though, if you were okay with sending compiled firmware to customers.
    And have you thought about making the firmware open source, also which MCU are you using?
    If open source firmware is not something you want to do, what about a little tool for configuring it, expose the UART pins on a pin header on the PCB and give pros a way to tweak the most important stuff?

    You might also want to post your light to https://endless-sphere.com/forums/, it's full of tech enthusiasts that will hopefully love your light as much as I do.

  142. #742
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    @Outbound. Hey do you guys just sell the battery case with no battery by it self.

  143. #743
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    Anyone else find the DH kit-supplied curved adhesive mount fragile? Maybe I got a dud--it broke when I tried to reinstall the light after a few months of use, probably the 6th time I removed the lighthead. Ordered a new one and it seems like it was advertised to just be plain ABS, perhaps recycled. I think my installation process weakened it, as I used a heatgun to prep the 3M VHB adhesive.

    If this next one turns out to be a dud, I wonder if there's an fiber reinforced version.

  144. #744
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    can anyone give me a comparison of the trail version compared to something like the glowworm 2500 or the gemeni titan 4000, thanks

  145. #745
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    A comparison to the light and motion Seca Race would be great as well. It too claims to have the cutoff for not blinding people and they have another model called the Taz that is a self contained system with the same ďtechnologyĒ. I would be curious to find out how these light compare against each other.

    Also is there a mount that outs this light dead center of the stem? Or can I mount it UNDER the stem centered etc for a much more streamlined look. Iím guessing due to the optics you canít mount it upside down.

  146. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    A comparison to the light and motion Seca Race would be great as well. It too claims to have the cutoff for not blinding people and they have another model called the Taz that is a self contained system with the same ďtechnologyĒ. I would be curious to find out how these light compare against each other.

    Also is there a mount that outs this light dead center of the stem? Or can I mount it UNDER the stem centered etc for a much more streamlined look. Iím guessing due to the optics you canít mount it upside down.
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----rangestemwith_1024x1024.jpgOutbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----bix2773-sm_1024x1024.jpeg

    There's the PNW Range gopro stem, the Gloworm QR mount+gopro adapter, or the gopro stem adapters. I picked up a chinzy stem faceplate bolt adapter, and opted not to use it, due to lack of confidence, and my propensity to end up going over the bars and wrecking anything mounted in front or above the bars.

    I have more confidence in this design due to its heat management and even, well shaped beam pattern. A bit floody for open desert through, and not quite enough light far away for riding fast, I've personally found with the DH package. Not surprising considering the designer's videos, showing use in a forest. I'm often slowing down just to be able to see what's coming up, as I can't tell what's changed due to rain erosion during the wet winter season. New ruts/trenches/ditches would be an unwelcome surprise, leading me to counter with my signature over-the-bars maneuver if caught unprepared.

  147. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Road with the Gloworm mount.
    Mole

    ***Not sure why shots were converted back to attachments but you can still click on them to see the pictures***

  148. #748
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    Comparison Outbound Road vs Lupine SL-F(in low beam)

    MrMole and Ninjichor thanks for posting the tipps for mounting
    @Outbound: i'd recommend to take a quick release holder similar to the one from gloworm into your program. of course one could order at two shops, but having it all from one source is nicer.

    So, i am finally a owner of the Road Edition as well. I do own the Lupine SL-F and compared the Road Edition to this lamp. On full power i couldn't say which of those lamps has more reach (comparing of course only Low/dipped beam), while the outbound has more light right in front of the bike and the illumination is a bit more homogeneuous compared to the lupine. The Lupine feels like it as a bite more spread in the distance. Both lamps weigh the same, the lupine is bit smaller, but has this PMMA lens which is a bit more sensitive to scratches.

    Although i have a pretty new light i still have an automatic step down in the programming (to medium), light wasn't hat hot. I couldn't override this setting.
    [Edit1: seems like the battery was pretty low, not just 60%, it was charging more than 4hrs.]
    [Edit2: different day, new findings. the light was again stepping down from high to medium. One could then switch to medium-high and the software did not step down. Also after staying a few secs on the medium setting i could again select the high mode and the lamp stayed there. Battery indicator showed then 2 LEDs, one was blinking, so around 25% runtime left]
    @Outbound: how is the new software compared to the older version? Does the lamp head draw current when switched off but connected to the battery?

    Regarding battery runtimes and light settings @Outbound
    on your Kickstarter page you give higher runtimes than on your webpage. Are they just more conservative in the shop? You could give some lumen numbers in your shop and on your manual (as given on kickstarter)

    in a german forum there are some pictures where i compare the Outboud Road to Lupine SL-F, the Ixon Space and and some other lamps. I am too lazy to upload all the pics here.
    Here is the link: https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/outb...#post-15726855
    I do guess one can get the lamps and the lamp settings even from german, but i translate what i wrote in the beginning:

    Markings in the pics are at 20-22m, 40-42m and 60-62m. The camera settings were ISO 100, aperture F/4, 4 secs exposure time. It was a wet forest road and there came quite some fog up during the shooting. The road has a slight tilt downwards from inbetween the first and the second marking and the pictures are slightly to dark when one looks at the area behind the second marking. The last marking (bike helmet with neon yellow cover) and trees there were clearly visible with the Lupine at all settings (except lowest) and for the outbound (except lowest).
    Last edited by biking_tg; 02-05-2019 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Correction and extension of post

  149. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There's the PNW Range gopro stem,
    This PNW stem will not be friendly to many bike lights with GoPro compatible mounts. The location of the tabs on the face plate will make the back of many lights interfere with the faceplate.

    On edit:

    Discovered that the position of the GoPro tabs is adjustable. That should make it work with a wider range of lights.
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 02-03-2019 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Corrected info
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  150. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There's the PNW Range gopro stem, the Gloworm QR mount+gopro adapter, or the gopro stem adapters. I picked up a chinzy stem faceplate bolt adapter, and opted not to use it, due to lack of confidence, and my propensity to end up going over the bars and wrecking anything mounted in front or above the bars.

    I have more confidence in this design due to its heat management and even, well shaped beam pattern. A bit floody for open desert through, and not quite enough light far away for riding fast, I've personally found with the DH package. Not surprising considering the designer's videos, showing use in a forest. I'm often slowing down just to be able to see what's coming up, as I can't tell what's changed due to rain erosion during the wet winter season. New ruts/trenches/ditches would be an unwelcome surprise, leading me to counter with my signature over-the-bars maneuver if caught unprepared.
    Thanks for the mounting info. Looking forward to seeing the improvements that will be made to this light. Maybe a slightly bigger battery and twice as bright on all settings with the same or better runtime. Too much?

  151. #751
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    @biking_tg Were you testing against the 1000/1300 lumen Lupine? If so, isnít that lupine significantly more expensive? But quite a bit smaller and more compact with a remote.

  152. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    @biking_tg Were you testing against the 1000/1300 lumen Lupine? If so, isnít that lupine significantly more expensive? But quite a bit smaller and more compact with a remote.
    I was testing against the 1000/1300 lm lupine SL-F. When I bought it I didn't know about outbound only about the SL (without F). Yep lupine is significantly more expensive, even when adding customs fee and import gst/vat to the outbound (but the lupine SL-F is one of the best legal lamps available in Germany, where rules on bike lighting are strict. Plus it has the high beam)
    [Edit] Only the 1000 lm dipped/cutoff beam of the Lupine SL-F can be compared to the outbound road. One cannot compare the OL Road to the 1300 lm high beam of the SL-F. Lupine offers the SL-(A) and the SL-(A)F (StraŖenLampe/StreetLight with cutoff beam; F means Fernlicht=high beam, "A" stands for Accumulator=battery ) [/Edit]
    A more realistic price comparison would be to the 900lm SL (without F!), which comes without remote. The remote is nice, but imho only necessary due to high beam. Size difference is not really relevant for me, the outbound is a tad wider and has a bit deeper body but I guess therefore better heat dissipation. the qr barmount of the lupine however is much neater.
    If someone uses a trail lamp and is looking for an additonal, not blinding road light (and doesn't mind using two lamps), I'd clearly recommend the outbound road over the SL (without F!). Comparing the SL-F to the Outbound Road is not really possible and therefore i couldn't give a preference due to different features.
    Edit: in a later post there is a price comparison of the lamps
    Last edited by biking_tg; 02-04-2019 at 04:26 AM. Reason: Clarify a few things

  153. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    This PNW stem will not be friendly to many bike lights with GoPro compatible mounts. The location of the tabs on the face plate will make the back of many lights interfere with the faceplate.
    I was looking at this setup and think maybe you can slide the mount up and down the cutout in the stem faceplate. Stole a couple of pic's off there web page with one showing the mount in what looks like a higher position and another with no mount at all so assuming the Gopro mount is a add on. What do you think?
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----rangestem_wgopro_1by1_2_1024x1024.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----therangewithout1by1_1024x1024.jpg

  154. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Although i have a pretty new lamp i still have an automatic step down in the programming (to medium), lamp wasn't hat hot. I couldn't override this setting.
    Edit: seems like the battery was pretty low, not just 60%, it was charging more than 4hrs.
    @Outbound: how is the new software compared to the older version? Does the lamp head draw current when switched off but connected to the battery?
    Thought I'd repost this since it relates to this situation.
    Mole

    It would be great if this happens but don't ignore the plug-in solution of just getting a larger capacity battery. I was curious just how long you could run the lights in high mode (level 2) and maintain full output. I also have access to a 8400 mAh 6 cell battery (6200 mAh stock) so I ran both to the stepdown point with the results being stock battery 69 min. and M-tiger 6 cell lasting for 130 min. 2:10 of runtime in high is a big improvement and there's a lot higher capacity good quality 6 cell batteries out there that are reasonably priced if you need more high mode time.
    Mole

  155. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I was looking at this setup and think maybe you can slide the mount up and down the cutout in the stem faceplate. Stole a couple of pic's off there web page with one showing the mount in what looks like a higher position and another with no mount at all so assuming the Gopro mount is a add on. What do you think?
    Mole

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think you are right. Spent a few minutes on their website and it mentions adjustable GoPro mount and one reviewer knocked off a star because there were no instructions on how to install the GoPro mount. I'll edit my post.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  156. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Thought I'd repost this since it relates to this situation.
    Mole

    It would be great if this happens but don't ignore the plug-in solution of just getting a larger capacity battery. I was curious just how long you could run the lights in high mode (level 2) and maintain full output. I also have access to a 8400 mAh 6 cell battery (6200 mAh stock) so I ran both to the stepdown point with the results being stock battery 69 min. and M-tiger 6 cell lasting for 130 min. 2:10 of runtime in high is a big improvement and there's a lot higher capacity good quality 6 cell batteries out there that are reasonably priced if you need more high mode time.
    Mole
    Those runtime numbers on high are great for what I would want. Do you have recommendations/links to these better battery packs you are referencing that are even better than the M-Tiger?

    Thanks

  157. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    I was testing against the 1000/1300 lm lupine SL-F. When I bought it I didn't know about outbound. Yep lupine is significantly more expensive, even when adding customs fee and 19% import gst/vat to the outbound (but one of the best legal lamps available in Germany, where rules on bike lighting are strict. Plus it has the high beam) A more realistic price comparison would be to the 900lm SL. Remote is nice, but only necessary due to high beam. Size difference is not really relevant for me, the outbound is a tad wider and has a bit deeper body but I guess therefore better heat dissipation. the qr barmount of the lupine however is much neater. If someone uses a trail lamp and is looking for a not blinding road light only (and doesn't mind using two lamps), I'd clearly recommend the outbound road over the SL.
    That is a great recommendation to put the outbound above the lupine sl-f. That says a good bit for the outbound.

    Now if there was only a fix for how high and bulky the helmet mount is for this light it might be a absolute winning package with the low profile bar mount from Gloworm, better battery pack for longer runtimes on full output (high) and a reduction somehow of the mounting system for the helmet (if possible).

  158. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Those runtime numbers on high are great for what I would want. Do you have recommendations/links to these better battery packs you are referencing that are even better than the M-Tiger?

    Thanks
    I usually can find good options through Hunk Lee on ebay but all the higher capacity packs are shipping directly out of China which tacks on a $35 shipping charge so not such a good deal anymore. M-tiger packs were the best deals I could find (6 & 8 cell packs). Here's a link to the battery thread. With batteries the best place to buy seems to constantly change so they should be able to steer to the best source.
    Mole

    https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...-997165-5.html

    https://www.rakclighting.com/collect...t=939996807187

  159. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Thought I'd repost this since it relates to this situation.
    Mole
    It would be great if this happens but don't ignore the plug-in solution of just getting a larger capacity battery. ...
    Mole
    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    The forcing of the lower modes is something that is going to be fixed in a programming change. Basically there as a safeguard to make sure never going to be left in the dark unexpectedly, but got too aggressive on the programming, and should have put in the function to allow an override once selected again.
    Thanks Mole for reposting, i knew your post. I did talk to Outbound before ordering mid of Jan and he said i got the new software (see his post), that's why i was asking. At the moment i don't want to spend money on another battery pack and plus i do not wan't to have so many batteries (fly-/)lie-ing around at home...
    [Edit: new findings on that issue. the light was again stepping down from high to medium. One could then switch to medium-high and the software did not step down. After staying a few secs on the medium-high setting i could again select the high mode and the lamp stayed there. Battery indicator showed then at high 2 LEDs, one was blinking, so i guess that step down of the newer software kicks in at around 25% runtime on high left.
    However, after switching the lamp off and back on a few minutes later i couldn't permanently active the high mode anymore]


    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    That is a great recommendation to put the outbound above the lupine sl-f. That says a good bit for the outbound. .
    I edited my earlier post (#752) to clarfiy things
    [Edit: At the moment i do experience severe fogging issues with the light (inner side of the lens) when operating the lamp in the high mode below freezing point. This is something that i do not experience with the Lupine. Until i have found a way to deal with this is issue, this is a clear "do not buy" indication, at least not if you are overseas and cheap and speedy shipping back to OL for warranty/maitenance is not possible. If you do not ride at temperatures below freezing point, then you do not have to worry about this either]
    In short: the recommendation was meant only "over the SL" (without F!), which has no high beam, and the same (even more homogeneous but only 900 lm) cutoff beam pattern as the SL-F. Although the OL is listed with more lumens, i could not detect much difference when it comes to reach between the SL-F cutoff beam (rated and measured 1000 lm) and the OL Road beam (1500 lm, data sheet @85įC, an optical efficiency of 96% is somewhere given on the Kickstarter page). As i said before it's a draw/stand-off in my opinion but with different beam pattern styles and tastes regarding beam patterns differ.

    Regarding more details on beam patterns read again my post #748

    Here are the price numbers to support my recommendation:
    1)Lupine (USD prices from Lupine north america)
    SL-A7: 485 USD (vs 385Ä/440 USD in Europe)
    SL-AF7 595 USD (vs 466Ä/~530 USD)
    - same battery size as the Outbound, but with integrated capacity indicator
    - to be fair one would have to deduct 35 USD which is the price increase for Lupine batteries with a good capacity indicator, but you can't get a SL(F) in a bundle with the "standard" battery
    2)Outbound
    - 225 USD + shipment
    - vs 308 USD/~270Ä In germany (incl shipment + Customs + import GST/VAT

    The SL (without F) is for sure not on such a different level than the OL Road to justify either 260 USD (or even 110 Ä in germany) price difference. Even if one looks at the lamp heads only, the lupines are significantly more expensive and the SL (!, not F) is imho not worth that extra charge. For the price difference between the SL-AF7 and the OL Road in the states one could get a nice additional light as thrower/high beam and in sum quite more lumens than from the SL-AF alone.

    If one wants to have however only one light, than one would probably have to go for either a SL-F or a Supernova M99 MiniPro (in either 25 or 45 Version). The latter is a an e-bike light so one has to adapt it to a battery pack. Pricewise they are similar to the Lupine SL-F.
    Last edited by biking_tg; 02-06-2019 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Additional Informations, rephrasing, corrections

  160. #760
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    Beam Pattern and internal fogging of the Lens

    I noticed yesterday night (snowy conditions, a couple of įC below freezing point) that the area right in front of the bike is pretty bright compared to the rest of the beam, which gave me the feeling of only a short reach of the light, when backgroundlighting was present (i.e streetlamps). In total darkness it was less a problem. However when i came from the cold back into the warmth of the flat, i noticed quite some fogging on the inner side of the silikon lens (which disappeared after switching off the lamp and waiting a few minutes in the warmth), so i do not know whether that experienced brightness difference between right in front of the bike and at distance (>20m) was due to the fogging or is due to the the reflector or whether it's both. i have to look out for this on my next rides. The lamp came from the warm flat straight on the bike, was on low for the first 5-10 mins of the ride, afterwards i switched to full throttle. didn't check the lamp/lens during the ride.

    Edit: i added a pic of the lens with the fog. I tested again today at -3 įC, left the light 15-20 mins in the cold before powering up. Again after a few minutes at full power (no air movement, light on a table outside) the lens started to steam up on the inside, covering even more area of the lens than on the pic. it is this part of the lens which seems "milky" when the light is operated (at least on high mode).
    Tested it again in the room, ~20-21 įC, after 8 mins on max power (unless the light had dimmed down, was so hot that i couldn't touch it properly anymore) i saw a bit of fogging on the lens as well. Then i let the lamp cool down (outside, -3 įC), switched the lamp on again (sitting on a table at -3 įC) on high and saw again significant fogging after 5 min on high (Lamp was still cool after 5 mins).


    I know there is this gore patch in the light to allow for air exchange. How to deal with this issue of fogging? (@Outbound, any hints ? btw hope you survived the artic weather well....)
    Any help is welcome (sending the lamp back for maintenance is not really an option as overseas). I wonder whether this is an issue caused by shipping the light overseas (pressure differences and temperature differences in the cargo area of the plane during flight?)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----fogging.jpg  

    Last edited by biking_tg; 02-05-2019 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Adding Information

  161. #761
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    Fogging

    Had a call with Outbound on the fogging matter. As the light system is not airtight (and also not watertight at ip68) air exchange with the environment is expected. As i used the light just a few days ago in a very foggy night, i might have gotten all that water vapour inside the light. I was offered to get a new light by outbound (or to get a refund), but being in germany (and liking the light) and considering shipping times i will try to get rid of that issue myself first before sending it back.
    Will report whether and how i can solve it. Customer service is definitely excellent

  162. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Customer service is definitely excellent
    Yup! Won't hesitate to buy another one of his products when it comes out.
    Mole

  163. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Yup! Won't hesitate to buy another one of his products when it comes out.
    Mole
    Thanks for the compliments guys!

    Been a slow month for sales which is always concerning as a new business, I'm hoping once the weather starts to warm up again we'll see a little uptick. However still hard at work on the next light.

    Do you guys think I should do another discounted pre-order? I don't want to do kickstarter again since the amount of money spent after advertising, KS's slice, CC processing fees, etc, meant that only walked away with about half of the reported money raised that was able to put into the tooling. So I am thinking of doing a pre-order via my website. Would be like the KS, a 25-30% discount, but with lights to ship late summer/early fall.

    This new one is going to be a self-contained light designed for helmet mounting. Some details:

    1. This will be by far the lightest light on the market as a complete system. Sub 100g, potentially 90g with the mount included.
    2. Runtime to exceed 2+ hours, without having to resort to crazy throttling or inconsistent lighting.
    3. Shaped beam pattern of course.
    4. Not as wide of a beam pattern as the trail (since this is designed for helmet mounting) but much punchier than the Trail. Basically been designed to be the perfect compliment with the Trail on the bars.
    5. Lots invested into overmolded features and simple assembly to keep things made in house and the quality high. This is going to be like the GoPro of lights in terms of feel.
    6. Got one of the best in the business now helping me on the EE side. Former R&D Manager for CREE and incredibly passionate about bike lights. So expect a top-notch UI, driver efficiency, and more.
    7. USB-C rechargable! For some reason in the start 2019 the cost of USB-C ports dropped like 300% so now they are definitely affordable to use in new design. When I was looking at parts in late 2018 they were still pricey enough that I was like "ehhhh mayyyybe"


    Few other details to start dropping as I get closer to completion. Design work is almost done (I started and scraped design at least a half dozen times now) and starting the prototype phase. Once I figure out a name for this light then I'll be starting a new topic since this light will be completely different than the current product lineup!
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  164. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Thanks for the compliments guys!

    Been a slow month for sales which is always concerning as a new business, I'm hoping once the weather starts to warm up again we'll see a little uptick. However still hard at work on the next light.

    Do you guys think I should do another discounted pre-order? I don't want to do kickstarter again since the amount of money spent after advertising, KS's slice, CC processing fees, etc, meant that only walked away with about half of the reported money raised that was able to put into the tooling. So I am thinking of doing a pre-order via my website. Would be like the KS, a 25-30% discount, but with lights to ship late summer/early fall.

    This new one is going to be a self-contained light designed for helmet mounting. Some details:

    1. This will be by far the lightest light on the market as a complete system. Sub 100g, potentially 90g with the mount included.
    2. Runtime to exceed 2+ hours, without having to resort to crazy throttling or inconsistent lighting.
    3. Shaped beam pattern of course.
    4. Not as wide of a beam pattern as the trail (since this is designed for helmet mounting) but much punchier than the Trail. Basically been designed to be the perfect compliment with the Trail on the bars.
    5. Lots invested into overmolded features and simple assembly to keep things made in house and the quality high. This is going to be like the GoPro of lights in terms of feel.
    6. Got one of the best in the business now helping me on the EE side. Former R&D Manager for CREE and incredibly passionate about bike lights. So expect a top-notch UI, driver efficiency, and more.
    7. USB-C rechargable! For some reason in the start 2019 the cost of USB-C ports dropped like 300% so now they are definitely affordable to use in new design. When I was looking at parts in late 2018 they were still pricey enough that I was like "ehhhh mayyyybe"


    Few other details to start dropping as I get closer to completion. Design work is almost done (I started and scraped design at least a half dozen times now) and starting the prototype phase. Once I figure out a name for this light then I'll be starting a new topic since this light will be completely different than the current product lineup!
    I am a big fan of self contained lights. Just so much cleaner without the running of extra wires or carrying extra battery packs.

    I would be interested in the discounted advance purchase of this new light. Couple of requests

    1) keep it super low profile to the helmet with easy on/off/switching to other helmets

    2) have a handlebar mount option to go along with new light

    3) maybe take a page out of Exposure Lighting with their reflex technology which could dim the light according speed etc.

    4) another page out of Expsoure Lighting with Tap technology so you do t have to fiddle around to find the right output when the light is mounted on your head and you want to/need to adjust the brightness.

    5) high output greater than the trail light on the bar.

    6) of course matching led color output (xxxK) etc.

    7) you already mentioned it but re-iterate that 2hr plus runtime at full output be the minimum target.

    Looking forward to learning more about this new light.

    Thanks.

  165. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    I am a big fan of self contained lights. Just so much cleaner without the running of extra wires or carrying extra battery packs.

    I would be interested in the discounted advance purchase of this new light. Couple of requests

    1) keep it super low profile to the helmet with easy on/off/switching to other helmets

    2) have a handlebar mount option to go along with new light

    3) maybe take a page out of Exposure Lighting with their reflex technology which could dim the light according speed etc.

    4) another page out of Expsoure Lighting with Tap technology so you do t have to fiddle around to find the right output when the light is mounted on your head and you want to/need to adjust the brightness.

    5) high output greater than the trail light on the bar.

    6) of course matching led color output (xxxK) etc.

    7) you already mentioned it but re-iterate that 2hr plus runtime at full output be the minimum target.

    Looking forward to learning more about this new light.

    Thanks.
    1. Done. This was one of the first design requirements when I started things out.
    2. Done. Custom handlebar mount will be included and also adaptable to the other lights (outfront center mounted kind of thing).
    3. Potentially, problem is that it starts to drive the cost up, a lot. I am not a huge fan of having different tiers of lighting, but things are being designed so there is flexibility in the future for things like OLED screens, speed sensing, etc, but those would come at a higher cost of course.
    4. Another potential.
    5. Done, this is designed with a stronger center beam than the trail, but not as strong as the Road Edition.
    6. Of course.
    7.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  166. #766
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    Iím definitely in for a discounted pre-order for the light you describe. If you can manage the administrative details of running it on your own site, I think itís better for you. Youíve gotten enough attention and word-of-mouth that I donít think KS brings any additional exposure.

  167. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Do you guys think I should do another discounted pre-order? I don't want to do kickstarter again since the amount of money spent after advertising, KS's slice, CC processing fees, etc, meant that only walked away with about half of the reported money raised that was able to put into the tooling. So I am thinking of doing a pre-order via my website. Would be like the KS, a 25-30% discount, but with lights to ship late summer/early fall.
    I'd sign up!

  168. #768
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    I'd be in for a discounted pre-order.

  169. #769
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    For what it's worth the advertisements are getting this name out there. I see daily Facebook ads, and my group ride talks about who might buy the first one based on what we've read.

    I'm not in the market for a new light yet, but will definitely consider it for the future

  170. #770
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    I'm in discount or not. Details sound great. Didn't realize usb charging wasn't a given but happy to hear it will be a feature and think it's important for this light to be fully successful.
    Mole

  171. #771
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    Matt,
    1) What's your target price range?

    2) What's your target lumen output range? (I know, lumens aren't everything)

    3) Does the sub 100 gram weight include the battery?

    Mole

  172. #772
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    I like what I'm hearing about the helmet headlight. Sure a discount can motivate purchase but the way the handlebar unit is working ... I'd buy in early on it. Especially if it helps get it to market sooner.

    Heck, my current light was 100% price, no discount. I still bought it. : )

    Will be following and watching anxiously for updates.
    Keep it simple, light and fast charging.

  173. #773
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    Iíd be interested but it would need to be twice as bright at the spot than the trail and double the throw. Iím using a the bt21 with glo worm spot optics now but carrying a battery is annoying.

  174. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    1. Done. This was one of the first design requirements when I started things out.
    2. Done. Custom handlebar mount will be included and also adaptable to the other lights (outfront center mounted kind of thing).
    3. Potentially, problem is that it starts to drive the cost up, a lot. I am not a huge fan of having different tiers of lighting, but things are being designed so there is flexibility in the future for things like OLED screens, speed sensing, etc, but those would come at a higher cost of course.
    4. Another potential.
    5. Done, this is designed with a stronger center beam than the trail, but not as strong as the Road Edition.
    6. Of course.
    7.
    please keep it simple for us old guys not all this silly stuff. just a simple on the light switch to turn it on and off, no remote or programing garbage. thanks

  175. #775
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    What kind of size and form factor are we looking at? In my neck of the woods I need to keep the profile low not to get stuck in trees.

  176. #776
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    - 100g or less WITH the battery and mount included. It's going to be super light. Hope to really smash the industry leaders with this.

    - Dead simple as always. Single button, 4 status lights (down from 5 on the current light, 5 was just too many)

    - Lumen count is undecided, reason being is that the unique approach I am taking to the optic design means that I can tweak the beam pattern via individual LED's. So the main goal is going to be maximizing battery life, by getting away with the least amount of lumens. Part of the development is going to be adjusting the lumen values of each individual LED to the point where you get a well balanced, but punchy light with as little lumens as possible. The human eye can't discern the difference between around 10-15% lumens when it comes to the same beam pattern and color temperature. Simulations suggest that I'll have the same performance as the NR Lumina Boost 1200 with about 800 or less lumens, but it's all going to come down to a balanced beam pattern that the eye perceives as bright which will get nailed down during testing.

    - Very slim form factor, not long. This is not going to look like your typical self-contained bike light. Hence keeping the design somewhat close to my chest until we have the final design nailed down and ready to roll. Been 3d printing prototypes like mad the last few weeks, and getting housings sent off to be machined for thermal prototypes.

    - Definitely a brighter spot and more focused beam pattern than the trail, however the width and falloff is designed to work great with the trail. Can still look beyond 90* to the left or right and have that unbroken wall of light when paired with a Trail on the bars. That was the main objective with the optic.

    I'll start planning for a pre-order in a few months then! Sounds like enough interest that it'll be worthwhile.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  177. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    -
    - Very slim form factor, not long. This is not going to look like your typical self-contained bike light.
    .
    Sounds good! Typical "flashlight style" layout used on most current self-contained lights is the source of their poor/limited mounting choices. Love the updates!
    Mole

  178. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyChix View Post
    I like what I'm hearing about the helmet headlight. Sure a discount can motivate purchase but the way the handlebar unit is working ... I'd buy in early on it. Especially if it helps get it to market sooner.

    Heck, my current light was 100% price, no discount. I still bought it. : )

    Will be following and watching anxiously for updates.
    Keep it simple, light and fast charging.
    Count me in. I bought mine (trail edition) full price as well and couldn't be happier with the light. All rain all the time here in St Louis lately so only been able to get it on a frozen trail once since purchase. Plenty of rides on my normal gravel routes with this and I am blown away at the difference from my old set up (NR boost, bars and helmet).

    Once the weather changes this is going to be a huge upgrade for my pre Dawn before work rides. Looking forward to adding the self contained helmet light for the ultimate trail set up.

  179. #779
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    Will the new light offer fast charge capabilities? I have not purchased the trail or road versions so I am not sure if this functionality is already part of those lights.

  180. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Will the new light offer fast charge capabilities? I have not purchased the trail or road versions so I am not sure if this functionality is already part of those lights.
    Yep, that's the plan. USB-C port with a custom battery charging circuit. So should be able to use a high-ouput wall charger for fast charge, or a typical laptop/desktop USB port.

    The current Trail Edition and Road Edition use a wall charger for charging through a DC5521 connector. It'd be far too slow on it's own trying to charge 4 lithium cells.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  181. #781
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    Hey @Outbound could you take a minute to answer the questions in my previous post:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...l#post13957784
    Quote Originally Posted by cor35vet View Post
    Since you mentioned firmware issues, do you have a solution for firmware updates yet? It's obviously not feasible for me to ship the light from EU to US and back. I've got plenty of equipment and knowledge to flash MCUs though, if you are okay with sending compiled firmware to customers.
    And have you thought about making the firmware open source, also which MCU are you using?
    If open source firmware is not something you want to do, what about a little tool for configuring it, expose the UART pins on a pin header on the PCB and give pros a way to tweak the most important stuff?

  182. #782
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    Iím in , love the trail and road. Sounds great.

  183. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by cor35vet View Post
    Hey @Outbound could you take a minute to answer the questions in my previous post:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...l#post13957784
    We are using a Silcon Labs MCU, (EFM8BB31F32G-B-QFN24R). However I am not comfortable sending out the compiled firmware to customers, mostly because it gets out of our control and secondly because I don't have the knowledge as the optical and mechanical engineer to help troubleshoot anything (nor the time) since the code was written by the EE that I contract hired. Honestly it really comes down to time. I'm already so swamped between developing this new light, tweaking marketing/ads/website for current lights, building lights, shipping lights, and working to grow the business that trying to do a small side project like that would not be on the plate anytime soon.

    I know a disappointing answer (and probably sounds mean too) but maybe one day when I have nothing to do I'll get on it.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  184. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    I know a disappointing answer (and probably sounds mean too) but maybe one day when I have nothing to do I'll get on it.
    It's fine, I would've been surprised if you happily shared the source code right away
    If I really want to mod the light I can still reverse engineer the software, have done it multiple times for other stuff. Just hope the chip isn't read protected

    Do you have a link for the road edition light head only?
    Or should I order through the trail edition link and leave a comment in the order?
    https://www.outboundlighting.com/pro...ion-lighthead/

  185. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by cor35vet View Post
    It's fine, I would've been surprised if you happily shared the source code right away
    If I really want to mod the light I can still reverse engineer the software, have done it multiple times for other stuff. Just hope the chip isn't read protected

    Do you have a link for the road edition light head only?
    Or should I order through the trail edition link and leave a comment in the order?
    https://www.outboundlighting.com/pro...ion-lighthead/
    You can leave a comment on the order for that link.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  186. #786
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    Is there an approx timeframe when you expect to setup the pre-order/pre-pay/early adopter or whatever you call it for the new light?

  187. #787
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    I'm hoping in a few weeks. Waiting on machined magensium housing prototypes to show up so we can do some thermal load testing and some printed overmolded housings to be completed by protolabs. Going to cast some optics to get a good idea on the looks and then be able to put together some media.

    Maybe you guys saw the printed 3d housing of the light on our Instagram?

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----print1.jpg
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
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  188. #788
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----13f6bff5-c3be-4e73-b322-a92438e549af.png

    Aluminum or plastic? Bar size compatibility? Estimated weight and price? Looks nice!
    Mole

  189. #789
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    Nice looking mount! Kind of close to one of my ideas when I was figuring out my design. Main difference was that I had the hinge at the rear and the clamp screw near the GoPro tabs. Then it kind of morphed into adding the horizontal adjustability...... The joys of CAD. So easy to keep tweaking designs.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  190. #790
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series ---- Discussion ----

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Aluminum or plastic? Bar size compatibility? Estimated weight and price? Looks nice!
    Mole
    I always pick Glass filled Nylon. It takes a hit better than aluminum and doesnít get so danged cold to the touch in the winter.

    Hey any plans to make a Dynamo powered light?

  191. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy_burke View Post
    I always pick Glass filled Nylon. It takes a hit better than aluminum
    GF Nylon is good but tougher than aluminum? Not IME.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  192. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy_burke View Post
    I always pick Glass filled Nylon. It takes a hit better than aluminum and doesnít get so danged cold to the touch in the winter.

    Hey any plans to make a Dynamo powered light?
    I'm a PPS-GF kind of guy when it comes to parts like these. Same plastic used for structural automotive parts so will be looking to have it molded with that. They will have pads that are adapted to different bar sizes (25, 31.8, 35) sort of like the quadlock and garmin stuff. Overmolded inserts and thermal staked holding nut on the go-pro fin side like the newest GoPro pieces so you don't have to worry about that stupid nut falling out.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  193. #793
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    We'll be launching the new thread for the new light in about a week and a half, waiting on our optical prototypes to arrive before taking some pictures!

    Meanwhile, got some interesting news to share. We were selected to lead the development on the headlight surfaces for the super cool Podbike being built in Norway!

    https://www.podbike.com/a-good-bike-...ke-headlights/

    Some cool info and some screenshots of the optical performance those vehicles will have using the same technology and design as the Road Edition.
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  194. #794
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    Another week another hint. All my prototype pieces should be here this week. The overmolded upper frame prototype has arrived, the lens is on it's way and the magneisum lower is on it's way too.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----56219956_654648358288906_2372175635184353280_o.jpg
    OutboundLighting.com
    Professionally Engineered LED Bike Lights
    Assembled in Chicago, IL


  195. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Another week another hint. All my prototype pieces should be here this week. The overmolded upper frame prototype has arrived, the lens is on it's way and the magneisum lower is on it's way too.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sweet. For reference, what Bontrager helmet model is that?

    Looking great so far.

  196. #796
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    It looks nice but why not make it even lower profile so the light head almost sits flush to the helmet
    One of my pet peeves with helmet lights is worrying about catching it in stuff.

    I dont see any reason it needs to sit what appears to be 2-3" above the helmet.

  197. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    It looks nice but why not make it even lower profile so the light head almost sits flush to the helmet
    One of my pet peeves with helmet lights is worrying about catching it in stuff.

    I dont see any reason it needs to sit what appears to be 2-3" above the helmet.
    This would make me more likely to try a self contained helmet light. I have a very tight mounting setup for my little Gloworm helmet light, I hate catching vines and moss with my head. Maybe some sort of adjustable mount location, beyond what GoPro style mounts already provide in adjustability, to allow the light to be mounted very tight to helmets that can accommodate it. Or just a flip-flop GoPro adapter for a high/low option?

    I would also be curious if it is possible to add a battery port to make running it with an external battery an option for long rides?

  198. #798
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    Something like this

  199. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    .....I dont see any reason it needs to sit what appears to be 2-3" above the helmet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    This would make me more likely to try a self contained helmet light. I have a very tight mounting setup for my little Gloworm helmet light, I hate catching vines and moss with my head. Maybe some sort of adjustable mount location, beyond what GoPro style mounts already provide in adjustability, to allow the light to be mounted very tight to helmets that can accommodate it. Or just a flip-flop GoPro adapter for a high/low option?
    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post


    Something like this
    I'm with these comments. Early in my night riding days, I caught a high mounted light on a tree branch. No fun. I like and use very low mounting for my helmet lights.

    Low mounting must not be a concern for most folks though. I sell way, way more standard GoPro adapters than the LoPro version. I also did the LoPro adapter for Ituo lights in a flip/flop style so it could be low or extra low. Most pics I've seen of folks using them do not have them in the extra low position.

    Having a low option on this new Outbound light would appeal to some users, but I'd guess not enough to warrant the extra work to provide it. Low mounting makes a light not work with some helmets that have integral GoPro mounts. They typically are at the very top of the helmet and won't allow some lights with low mounting to be aimed down far enough.

    There may be some issue with tool design for casting the housing that makes a low mounting less manufacturable. On my GoPro adapters there is extra machining with a smallish tool that must be done to make it work. That adds time which is why they cost more despite using a smaller piece of raw material.

    Outbound has some lofty specification and performance goals for this new light. Even with it's somewhat high profile (not as high as many other helmet lights though) if it hits most of the performance and specification goals, it will be a very nice light.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  200. #800
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    Ituo makes a nice low profile Gopro helmet mount but not sure if they're avaiolable as an individual item.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----002.jpg

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