Nitefighter BT70 User Review:- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Nitefighter BT70 User Review:

    Yes it has arrived!

    Nitefighter BT70 2800 Lumens CREE XP G2 7 LEDs Neutral White Light Bicycle Headlight-91.12 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

    Like the BT21 it comes with the storage case. Rather large light as well. This is my first light with more than 4 emitters.

    Package includes:

    -Case
    -Light head
    -Battery Pack
    -Good Velcro Style helmet strap
    -Good charger
    -Mounting bands, the Velcro cable strap, extension cable, flood optic, and good, easy to read instructions.






    Now I havent gone through full testing on the equipment, it arrived a couple hours ago. However:

    Claim is that it uses Panasonic 3400mah cells, which makes capacity 6800mah:

    I can tell you without a doubt, they are Panasonic (Green ones too, not red) 3400Mah. Dont believe me see the picture. And dont worry I have PVC wrap (yellow at the moment) to re-wrap the pack. Did this with the BT21 as well to confirm cell claims.




    Initial Impressions:

    Light is true to nitefighter quality. Everything included is as well. Light is INSANELY BRIGHT ON TURBO (still seeing stars, no more turning it on in the house lol).

    I had a 80% charge panasonic pack ready from last ride so I did a quick current test:

    Low= 0.1A

    Medium= 0.7A

    High= 1.9A

    Turbo= 4.8A

    Yes your reading that right, 4.8A on turbo.

    Im going to hit pavement path tonight and take other NF lights with, do beam shots side by side.

    And the Video Review:

    Last edited by tigris99; 07-10-2015 at 12:29 AM.

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    Aaaaa!! Waiting for beamshots! The first at the planet.. I bursting from envy)
    How long the lamp was in the way?

  3. #3
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    Sorry not sure i understand your question? Are you asking how long did it take to get my light?

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    Yes)) I am sorry!

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    I didn't order mine. It was sent to me for testing and review so it shipped express before anyone else's would have.

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    Okay, waiting!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    Aaaaa!! Waiting for beamshots! The first at the planet.. I bursting from envy)
    How long the lamp was in the way?
    Beamshots are coming soon

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    Ya, im at work for 3 more hours yet, beam shots will come when I get home from work tonight :-)

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    OK first thing:

    Was curious as to why wires for battery were so stiff:

    Battery pack and light head use 18AWG wire

    Next, beam shots. All I have to say is WHY, WHY IN THE HECK DOES A BICYCLE NEED THIS MUCH LIGHT???? This is like a motorcycle light on high beam, it's insane!

    Ok this is flood optic only on high (my camera was not liking turbo) and had to turn down to 1/10 second exposure time. Usually run at 1/6.



    Ok now first the area that I lit up. Sorry but twisted ankle at work, no bike time tonight. I had to turn camera exposure to 1.3 seconds to get the shot to show what the street light does. Then turned back to 1/8 second exposure for the light on. This is with STOCK INSTALLED "SPOT" OPTIC. The hill all the way behind the house is approximately 100 meters away.






    Correction on the current: 4.8A on turbo.

    Head Temps: 110-115 Deg F on turbo on wind tunnel testing

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    .....Yes your reading that right, 4.5A on turbo.
    Current draw from the battery or current to the LEDs? Do you know if the LEDs are series or parallel configured?
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    Draw from pack. I dont test at emitters anymore, too much of a PITA.

    They are parallel configured.

    Edit: so cant find a current sense resistor in this thing AT ALL.....Instead is what more looks like a small current shunt, around 5A size.

    Also, looking at previous calculation methods, seems were getting closer to 1.1A per emitter. That would put us at close to 2800 lumens prior to optics losses. I know this thing is well over 2000 lumens, I have a light (modded mj880 clone) that pushes 1900-2000 and this thing is seriously brighter.

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    ^^ ( photo )...looks good. Keep in mind though almost all lamps are going to look good on a flat light-colored surface. Good to hear it comes with a very good battery. Actually, I would of preferred a good 6-cell with a lamp like this. At least something around 7800mAh. The more cells the more potential for a longer running high current output.

    tig, can you tell me more about the lowest mode? How does it compare to the low mode on the BT40S? Actually, would be great to see a comparison between the BT40S and the BT70.

    ( edit; also, let us know if there is going to be a group buy price... )

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    Thank you!
    Agree with Cat-man-do: more comparisons any kind of available, please!
    At the second shot - at the most interesting place there is a streetlight. And it`s difficult to assess how much further throw this light. I know, that it`s flood, but in this case it`s time of number transition to quality. In other words, can I tear about at a speed of about 19 mph in the night forest with this light?
    And the second question about low mode. Does it admit move safe, and dazzle oncoming not very much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    They are parallel configured.
    Tigris - First off - Thanks for posting the review!

    I contacted Nitefighter a week or so ago with questions about this light. At first they said the LED's were series/parallel. After I asked if that meant that some of the LED's were off when using the lower settings they came back and said that the LED's were all in series.

    I'm wondering, were you able to open the light up and see that the LED's are parallel, or is this from their specification?

    Thanks!

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    Hard to imagine they are a parallel configuration. If each emitter is seeing 1.1A then the driver has an output of 7.7A. That takes some pretty serious power capable components. Certainly possible though.

    7 emitters doesn't work in a series/parallel configuration if all the emitters are the same type. A 7 emitter series/parallel design using 6 XPG2 and 1 XML2 is doable with a modest boost driver.

    A series configuration would have a Vf of ~23V. Nearly a 4X boost from an 8.4V battery. That's not unreasonable, but boost drivers are battery killers IMO. Low efficiency too with that boost ratio. A 16.8V battery would be a much more appropriate choice for a series configured light.
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    Bt40s vs this, when I get a chance. Everyone must have missed what I typed in the beam shot post

    Parallel is best I can tell last night got interrupted when I was sorting all that out. But I know for sure its not full series. Might be some for of split haven't sorted that yet.

    Their Cree emitters on an off-road lighthead, low is really low but still going to be annoying for oncoming ppl. As for speed thing, I will not comment on that. I use a lot less light to ride through dense wooded trails than others. What I need vs what others need is your decision only.

  17. #17
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    Ok findings now:





    Confirm 7 in parallel





    Also, confirmed my guess was close. .9-1.0A per emitter. I had to put my cutting torch glasses on for this and my eyes still hurt lol.





    Vf was following correctly and current was following 80-90% of what output rating would suggest for lumens. So after losses at optics 2500lumens out the front easily.



    Also their current sense resistor is exactly what I thought it was. Its a shunt style resistor. Dont know the exact term for it. So I did resistance tests. The chip they use has a 0.15v reference voltage. Resistor is a massive wattage 0.020ohm. Calculation off that again confirms over 7amps, 7.4A to be exact.

    Ps: As for the group buy, I dont know depends on if there is enough interest. The last one didn't go so well cause of eBay, though price was cheaper at gearbest.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Bt40s vs this, when I get a chance. Everyone must have missed what I typed in the beam shot post

    Parallel is best I can tell last night got interrupted when I was sorting all that out. But I know for sure its not full series. Might be some for of split haven't sorted that yet.

    Their Cree emitters on an off-road lighthead, low is really low but still going to be annoying for oncoming ppl. As for speed thing, I will not comment on that. I use a lot less light to ride through dense wooded trails than others. What I need vs what others need is your decision only.
    I'm just wondering how low the low really is. The BT21 low is really low. The BT40S low on the other hand is slightly brighter and more useable for mtb'n. I'm kind of hoping that the low on the BT70 is more like the low on the BT40S or slightly brighter.

    Is this lamp using the same up/down switch as the 40S?

    I already figured that it must be a parallel emitter configuration. Then again it could be a 2S / 4P configuration but to do that it would be necessary to add an extra diode in series with one of the LED's to balance the current flow and to even out the voltage drop. I can't see any reason why that wouldn't work.

    Oh, almost forgot to ask; This isn't one of those lamps that only illuminates a certain number of LED's for each mode is it??

    edit,,...Will this be available as , "Lamp head only"??

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    Nope its all on all off.

    Low is .03A per emitter, its REALLY low.

    Same button as bt40s

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Nope its all on all off.

    Low is .03A per emitter, its REALLY low.

    Same button as bt40s
    Will there be a "lamp head only" offered?

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    Can't answer that at the moment, but im betting we will be able to once my rep comes back into the office later next week.

    I will bet to say yes but don't hold me to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Nope its all on all off.

    Low is .03A per emitter, its REALLY low.

    Same button as bt40s
    That's 30ma. and that is low. I tried to figure output out by using the Cree chart but they really don't list a current that low. I'd just estimate it may be between 25-50 lumen per emitter. When you get a chance please do a photo comparison between the lows...thanks.

    Hopefully the low will be bright enough to allow the user to limp out on low if they suddenly find themselves still a good ways out with a very low battery.

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    Is there enough surface area to dissipate the heat? I can't tell how deep those groves go.

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    Details of temps in previous posts, just fine and in line for temps if other lights.

    I did notice something with the test. Cut off on the pack protection is 5A (same PCB as others) and seems light head tripped it, voltage was still ok on the pack. But im guessing being lighthead runs so close to pack limit and I left it on turbo for 30 mins (or more I wasn't in the room for a bit) that it hit close enough to trip it. Not like anyone should need to run this at turbo for extended periods, except if you have issues with eye sight in low light conditions, lol.



    Cat, depends on weather as to what if anything I can do tonight

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    Sorry everyone, pull up weather channel, put davenport Iowa (I live north of there) on the map you'll see what im in the middle of lol. No outside stuff tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Details of temps in previous posts, just fine and in line for temps if other lights.

    I did notice something with the test. Cut off on the pack protection is 5A (same PCB as others) and seems light head tripped it, voltage was still ok on the pack. But im guessing being lighthead runs so close to pack limit and I left it on turbo for 30 mins (or more I wasn't in the room for a bit) that it hit close enough to trip it. Not like anyone should need to run this at turbo for extended periods, except if you have issues with eye sight in low light conditions, lol.



    Cat, depends on weather as to what if anything I can do tonight
    This could be trouble. This is why I said earlier that I would have preferred a 6-cell battery. If the battery PCB is actually tripping because of a current over-draw then that could mean it wouldn't be able to turn back on unless the battery was reset on the charger. That would not be good if your back in the woods and don't have another power source ( or back-up lamp ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    If the battery PCB is actually tripping because of a current over-draw then that could mean it wouldn't be able to turn back on unless the battery was reset on the charger.
    Actually, it depends on the particular IC design/logic. Some of protection boards are self-resetting, and don't require external voltage to trip back.

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    Well im going to do some testing on it to be sure. Like I said I wasn't near it when it tripped. Could have been the fact of new pack maybe did dip below voltage cut off briefly I have no idea. But ill run it again here soon to know for sure what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Actually, it depends on the particular IC design/logic. Some of protection boards are self-resetting, and don't require external voltage to trip back.
    Well, you may be right. Makes sense to have something reset itself. I guess the question to ask is; Did the lamp turn back on when you hit the switch? If it came back on then it possible did reset itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ok findings now:
    Confirm 7 in parallel
    Thanks for checking this out.

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    Looks ok, but I think the beam is going to be disappointing for my tastes. To me there is such a thing as too much or maybe I should say too bright of a flood area. My perfect beam, even for the bars, will be brightest in the center of the beam with good throw and then smoothly taper off and dimmer as it extends out to the edges. If the beam is anything like the bt40s then the beam is brightest close up in the flood area and dim in the center of the beam at distance. I know you can fill in the gap in the beam with a throwy helmet light, but in my opinion the bt70 has enough output to do both if they design the right optic. Its hard to tell yet until we see more beamshots, but this is just my initial impression . Thanks tigris for doing the reviews.

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    Weather looks promising to at least hit the paved path tonight and the field so I can get some good comparison shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Looks ok, but I think the beam is going to be disappointing for my tastes.
    I have the same taste! But this light expected as flood. And the first beam shot made with flood optic. There are another - narrow optic.

    I ordered this light, for all that))

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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Looks ok, but I think the beam is going to be disappointing for my tastes. To me there is such a thing as too much or maybe I should say too bright of a flood area. My perfect beam, even for the bars, will be brightest in the center of the beam with good throw and then smoothly taper off and dimmer as it extends out to the edges. If the beam is anything like the bt40s then the beam is brightest close up in the flood area and dim in the center of the beam at distance. I know you can fill in the gap in the beam with a throwy helmet light, but in my opinion the bt70 has enough output to do both if they design the right optic. Its hard to tell yet until we see more beamshots, but this is just my initial impression . Thanks tigris for doing the reviews.
    Yeah, I have to agree with everything you said. One of the things I liked about the Gloworm lights is that they managed to create a beam pattern that not only provided decent flood but also gave you some throw.

    Still, with the output the BT70 has it should be able to penetrate a bit further than the BT40S to give a very useable beam pattern. Like you, I believe a lamp with this much output should be able illuminate objects clearly beyond 200ft. If three of the optics were more spot oriented I have no doubt it would do just that. Anyway, that's one of the reasons I bought a second BT40S, I wanted to see if the extra output ( when running two in combo ) is going to kick the distance visibility into high gear. If it doesn't it's still going to light up the foreground like daytime.

    Every once in awhile I like to remind people that it wasn't that long ago that we were all riding with 10 to 12 watt halogen lighting on our handlebars and we were very happy at that time to have just that. Let's face it, we're spoiled.

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    OK need a blood transfusion after that....going out to path to take more beam shots.... OMG couldnt believe the mosquitoes!!!!!!!! I had some beam shots that had lines through the picture from them flying through the shot.


    Cat, yes i forgot to get low beam comparison shots, but I did check the 2, BT70 is actually noticeably brighter on low but not by alot.

    BT40S on turbo:



    BT70 Spot optic up close on high:



    BT70 on High:



    BT70 on Turbo:



    There is ALOT more light down range on the BT70 than bt40S. Brightness at a distance increases far more by level than flood does. That arch at the end is 250-260 ft down from where I stand (I actually marked the pavement last time I was doing beam shots so all are from the same spot).

    And yes I know its a bit fuzzy looking, its REALLY humid here especially on the wooded path, so glare just from moisture in the air is annoying.

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    Thank you, tigris!
    Was BT40S with Spot optic too?

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    Ya I dont have a wide optic for the bt40s, I bought it lighthead only.

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    I thought: "lighthead only" is only without a battery..

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    No light head only usually means exactly that, light head and mounting bands. Bt21 so far is the only exception to that. They include everything except battery, charger and case (well from gearbest anyway, the one on eBay is like everything else, only the light head and bands)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post

    Cat, yes i forgot to get low beam comparison shots, but I did check the 2, BT70 is actually noticeably brighter on low but not by a lot.....


    ....There is A LOT more light down range on the BT70 than bt40S. Brightness at a distance increases far more by level than flood does. That arch at the end is 250-260 ft down from where I stand (I actually marked the pavement last time I was doing beam shots so all are from the same spot).

    And yes I know its a bit fuzzy looking, its REALLY humid here especially on the wooded path, so glare just from moisture in the air is annoying.
    Thanks much tig. If the low mode is a little brighter than the low mode on the BT40S that means it's going to be quite useable.

    Obviously the BT70 has more throw than the 40S. It might not be as dramatic when on single track but at least we know it has more to offer. I would think the output on medium would be more than enough for general riding.

    The fact that you had humid conditions when taking the photos only means that on a clear night you will have even more to see.

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    Ya you think your getting rain lol. Its constant here lately. Im praying it stops soon today so it will dry enough to go to nearby trail to hit the dirt tomorrow night.

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    I'm waiting to get my BT70 and BT21 I ordered from GearBest. 4600 theoretical total lumens for 150 bucks shipped seems like a good deal! I'm just getting into night riding so I'll let you know my thoughts when it arrives. Hoping the quality is as good as people say for a "budget" light.

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    Well I own a total of 2 bt21s, a bt40s and a bt70. Seems other than the occasional assembly error at the factory Imo quality is on par with magicshine etc, not quite the quality of the "big boys" but ill never pay that money when I can replace these multiple times and still be below the price of 1 high end light that will still burn out after some years of use.

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    So, what do you guys think? For someone who doesn't want to get into modding lights, I'm thinking about a BT70 on the bars and a BT40 on the helmet.

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    Bt21 better for helmet than bt40. Bt70 may be overkill. Depends if you ride in narrow wooded single track or not. Bt70 for me is way overkill, but if you look at videos ive done, ull see what I ride. If trails are more open then bt70 would be good. My personal favorite is bt21 helmet with spot optics and bt21 stock or bt40s stock optics on the bars. Changing optics isn't "modding" its just like a bike, making adjustments to for your needs. Takes more effort to adjust a seat or change your grips than change optics around

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    So, what do you guys think? For someone who doesn't want to get into modding lights, I'm thinking about a BT70 on the bars and a BT40 on the helmet.
    Well the BT70 is certainly enough light for the bars....for the helmet ( if it were me ) I'd consider the BT21 rather than the BT40S. The only reason though is so you have the option to use different optics if you wish for more forward throw.

    Other options worth considering ( for a neutral helmet set-up ) would be Solarstorm X3 or the XT40.

    Not to mention, you can get the Gloworm products with neutral LED's as well. They just cost more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Well I own a total of 2 bt21s, a bt40s and a bt70. Seems other than the occasional assembly error at the factory Imo quality is on par with magicshine etc, not quite the quality of the "big boys" but ill never pay that money when I can replace these multiple times and still be below the price of 1 high end light that will still burn out after some years of use.
    I was planning to run the BT70 on the bars and the BT21 on the helmet. Have you tried this combo and do you have a preference for the spot or flood optic on the BT70? I imagine this set up puts out a huge amount off light.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Bt21 better for helmet than bt40. Bt70 may be overkill. Depends if you ride in narrow wooded single track or not. Bt70 for me is way overkill, but if you look at videos ive done, ull see what I ride. If trails are more open then bt70 would be good. My personal favorite is bt21 helmet with spot optics and bt21 stock or bt40s stock optics on the bars. Changing optics isn't "modding" its just like a bike, making adjustments to for your needs. Takes more effort to adjust a seat or change your grips than change optics around
    I'm in Southern California, so it's pretty open.

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    Ive only had the bt70 a week, first bt70 that I know of to a rider. And rain has kept me off the dirt. But testing so far, like I put in my post, for me bt70 is too much light on higher modes. Glare from moisture on undergrowth creates horrible glare because its really humid here. And that's on the spot optic, flood optic REALLY brings out the glare from the moisture on the plants. I can run it on medium but that becomes a "what's the point?" when I have a bt21 and bt40s I can use on the bars. Smaller, lighter, and tighter beam. So I can focus the majority of the light on the trail and not get horrible glare (dont get me started on how painful cool white is on the eyes for me, all CW emitters were switch to nuetral in everything I own).

    That said, BT70 IS NOT bad. Just too much for where I ride with high humidity at night being a permanent matter. If where you live is drier and more open, your going to love a bt70 on the bars with stick optic. Can ride on that light alone cause its like an atv headlight on high beams lol.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    bt21 with spot optics
    Where it's possible to read / see more about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    Where it's possible to read / see more about this?
    I'd like some more info on this too. Any links to places to purchase new optics for the BT21?

  52. #52
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    My question is: Where's the best place to buy a BT70 and BT21? I'm in Southern California. And thanks you guys for all the great advise.

  53. #53
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    This light really need adjustable steps like Gemini/Gloworm. Omission of this feature makes this a very narrow focused light even with optional optics and especially with the power levels they chose for each step. While I could be wrong, I can't imagine too many would choose to have the power levels set at 100/40/15/2% (Calculated off the amp draw in the OP). I sure it would make very little difference in the selling price to add this feature and I hope Nitefighter is listening because (IMO) it would help them sell a lot more of these lights and give us a more user friendly product.
    Mole

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    I bought mine off GearBest. They are still in the mail so I can't comment too much on the experience yet. This site seems popular with people on the MTBR forums.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by stutru View Post
    I bought mine off GearBest. They are still in the mail so I can't comment too much on the experience yet. This site seems popular with people on the MTBR forums.
    I was reading here or in another thread about shipping problems to the U.S..

  56. #56
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    All nitefighter lights are only available at gearbest.com except the bt40s can be had (for fairly high price) on amazon.

    Optics we are discussing only for bt21, there is no aftermarket optics for bt70 or bt40s. Optics we discuss for bt21 and other similar 2 xm-l2 emitter lights are available at fasttech.com and leddna.com.

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    Thing is none of the "budget lights" have programmable drivers that I know of except the kd2 yinding clone. aesthetically more programmable modes to me is overrated and the light difference in these steps is at least noticeable. Like something of 2A then 3A step isn't all that noticeable, not like 1A up 2A. Ya its not much more expensive to add but it still costs more to produce. KD's programmable driver is seriously inefficient compared to say the yinding driver.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    All nitefighter lights are only available at gearbest.com except the bt40s can be had (for fairly high price) on amazon.

    Optics we are discussing only for bt21, there is no aftermarket optics for bt70 or bt40s. Optics we discuss for bt21 and other similar 2 xm-l2 emitter lights are available at fasttech.com and leddna.com.
    Ok, I'm not happy with this Gearbest website. I'm supposed to get $5 off promo codes for signing up. But when I applied one of the codes to buy a BT70 light the price went from $91 to $108. I tried one of the other codes, you get ten of them, and the same thing happened. I can't seem to figure that out.

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    Its because they bt70 is already at a heavy discount, so promo codes dont work. Ive been working with them to fix it on normal products. But ones like bt70 you either get sale price or coupon codes off normal price.

    The only discounts you can use on special promo pricing are points.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Its because they bt70 is already at a heavy discount, so promo codes dont work. Ive been working with them to fix it on normal products. But ones like bt70 you either get sale price or coupon codes off normal price.

    The only discounts you can use on special promo pricing are points.
    Ok. I'd also like to know what the shipping cost is to the U.S.. But, it doesn't look like I'll find that out till I make the purchase. Do you happen to know what the shipping cost is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Confirm 7 in parallel
    Running LEDs in parallel is generally frowned upon. As they heat up the Vf drops so they take a higher current, and heat up more... and take a higher current... thermal runaway. I hope that LED in the middle has good heatsinking.
    2x3 would be a better solution and with a six cell battery.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Thing is none of the "budget lights" have programmable drivers that I know of. aesthetically more programmable modes to me is overrated and the light difference in these steps is at least noticeable. Like something of 2A then 3A step isn't all that noticeable, not like 1A up 2A. Ya its not much more expensive to add but it still costs more to produce. KD's programmable driver is seriously inefficient compared to say the yinding driver.
    My XLM U2 equipped Duo has older less efficient emitters than my XML 2 Yinding yet produces approx. 10% more power on my meter. When Gloworm went to the programmable drivers they lost no power nor did it change the runtimes on their batteries. Don't know about the KD driver but having a programmable driver doesn't seem to have hurt the performance of the Duo or Gloworm lights so (IMO) I don't see any drawbacks to having a programmable driver except making it a little more complicated to program. The reason I think this is a big deal on this light is the step from high to Turbo is huge. I goes from mild mannered 1.9 amp draw on high (less than a yinding) to a waaaay more than you need 95% of the time 4.8 amp draw on turbo light producing battery draining monster in one push of the button. Maybe they should make it green and call it their "HULK" light cause they have the same personality traits. Any way I know you yourself have mentioned it would be nice if high were a little higher on the BT21 which is only 600-700 lumen difference between high and turbo but on this light it's easily over twice that amount. I think (I think you do too) that the BT40 would make a better light for most people, but it shouldn't . With a programmable driver or at least a rethink on the preset step power levels it would be everything the BT40 is plus a lot more.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Ok. I'd also like to know what the shipping cost is to the U.S.. But, it doesn't look like I'll find that out till I make the purchase. Do you happen to know what the shipping cost is?
    Oh, I see now, free shipping!

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    Shipping price is speed based though. Free takes 3 weeks give or take, paid shipping is about the fastest/middle of stated times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    My XLM U2 equipped Duo has older less efficient emitters than my XML 2 Yinding yet produces approx. 10% more power on my meter. When Gloworm went to the programmable drivers they lost no power nor did it change the runtimes on their batteries. Don't know about the KD driver but having a programmable driver doesn't seem to have hurt the performance of the Duo or Gloworm lights so (IMO) I don't see any drawbacks to having a programmable driver except making it a little more complicated to program. The reason I think this is a big deal on this light is the step from high to Turbo is huge. I goes from mild mannered 1.9 amp draw on high (less than a yinding) to a waaaay more than you need 95% of the time 4.8 amp draw on turbo light producing battery draining monster in one push of the button. Maybe they should make it green and call it their "HULK" light cause they have the same personality traits. Any way I know you yourself have mentioned it would be nice if high were a little higher on the BT21 which is only 600-700 lumen difference between high and turbo but on this light it's easily over twice that amount. I think (I think you do too) that the BT40 would make a better light for most people, but it shouldn't . With a programmable driver or at least a rethink on the preset step power levels it would be everything the BT40 is plus a lot more.
    Mole
    How efficient a driver is has mainly to do with the design and the components used to provide the power conversions. Better design / components, better driver. The ability to "step" control the output only has to do with the circuits that modulate the output to the load> ( the emitters in this case ). Digital circuits used to control the UI generally use very little power. Regardless, even if they did make the total efficiency of the driver drop this factor soon becomes forgotten once you factor in the fact that you are now custom setting the modes to the "Output" levels that you want. If you want more efficiency / run time, set the modes lower. If you aren't concerned with efficiency and want more, you might then just ramp up the settings, your choice.

    I agree the BT70 would be better if the modes were programmable however the present settings on the BT70 sound like they might work very well spaced apart as they are. I say that because when I asked tigress99 about the low mode he said it was slightly brighter than the low on the BT40S. If true that would be great! Low mode on the BT40S is very nice and very useable. I figure the mid and high modes are also a little brighter as well. Now when it comes to the boost mode, I like the idea of the BIG JUMP in output. Remember, there are thermal issues to this lamp. Set the "High mode" too high and the lamp is going to get hot. If it gets real hot that will certainly limit the "Boost mode" run time. With a lamp this powerful you have to understand that you really can't over-use the Boost mode or the lamp is going to automatically drop in output at some point when it gets too hot.

    Personally, my use of boost modes is generally very low; usually not more than ten minutes at any one time and that only when at higher speeds. Now for someone who is doing "Mountain descents" where they might be at speed for 20 minutes or more, that person is going to have to be wary when using the BT70 on boost. Hopefully we'll find out more about the thermal drop-down issues of the BT70 as the review progresses.

  66. #66
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    Ok, just ordered a bt70 and a bt21. Now the wait begins.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Now when it comes to the boost mode, I like the idea of the BIG JUMP in output.
    I put the sedative tablet back into the locker. (My lamp is on the way now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Now for someone who is doing "Mountain descents" where they might be at speed for 20 minutes or more, that person is going to have to be wary when using the BT70 on boost.
    But "Mountain descents" it`s means Good ventilation = cooling? tigris99 wrote
    "Head Temps: 110-115 Deg F on turbo on wind tunnel testing"

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    f....But "Mountain descents" it`s means Good ventilation = cooling? tigris99 wrote
    "Head Temps: 110-115 Deg F on turbo on wind tunnel testing"
    Correct. I would like to think that as long as you are traveling 15mph or faster that there isn't going to be any thermal drop-downs. For me though this really wouldn't be a big issue regardless. If I were descending a long mountain single track at speed and the bar lamp auto-powered down to say ~400 lumen, I don't think that would cause me any major problems ( although it might annoy me ). It would just mean that my helmet lamp would have to pick-up the slack.

    Generally, if a trail has a lot of technical features I'm not going to be going real fast anyway, downhill or not. That said, if I'm wrong and it were to be a major issue I'd likely run another lamp on the bars ( on standby with Y-cable ) just in case. The number one rule of MTB'n: "Do what you have to do to protect thy butt".

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Running LEDs in parallel is generally frowned upon. As they heat up the Vf drops so they take a higher current, and heat up more... and take a higher current... thermal runaway. I hope that LED in the middle has good heatsinking.
    2x3 would be a better solution and with a six cell battery.
    Yeah but all the LED's are going to get hot so the thermal issues are additive. Sure the middle emitter is likely the hottest but that's why the lamp has a thermal protection circuit. I'm sure it's set so the scenario you described doesn't happen. I'm sure when they designed the emitter board that they thought out the heat issues involved. Usually I don't like lamps with auto thermal cut-offs but in this case it really is the only way to go. Without it the LED's would fry.

    Yes, there are better set-ups. This lamp though is choosing to use 7 emitters. Parallel set-up is the only thing going to work and keep everything balanced.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    How efficient a driver is has mainly to do with the design and the components used to provide the power conversions. Better design / components, better driver. The ability to "step" control the output only has to do with the circuits that modulate the output to the load> ( the emitters in this case ). Digital circuits used to control the UI generally use very little power. Regardless, even if they did make the total efficiency of the driver drop this factor soon becomes forgotten once you factor in the fact that you are now custom setting the modes to the "Output" levels that you want. If you want more efficiency / run time, set the modes lower. If you aren't concerned with efficiency and want more, you might then just ramp up the settings, your choice.

    I agree the BT70 would be better if the modes were programmable however the present settings on the BT70 sound like they might work very well spaced apart as they are. I say that because when I asked tigress99 about the low mode he said it was slightly brighter than the low on the BT40S. If true that would be great! Low mode on the BT40S is very nice and very useable. I figure the mid and high modes are also a little brighter as well. Now when it comes to the boost mode, I like the idea of the BIG JUMP in output. Remember, there are thermal issues to this lamp. Set the "High mode" too high and the lamp is going to get hot. If it gets real hot that will certainly limit the "Boost mode" run time. With a lamp this powerful you have to understand that you really can't over-use the Boost mode or the lamp is going to automatically drop in output at some point when it gets too hot.

    Personally, my use of boost modes is generally very low; usually not more than ten minutes at any one time and that only when at higher speeds. Now for someone who is doing "Mountain descents" where they might be at speed for 20 minutes or more, that person is going to have to be wary when using the BT70 on boost. Hopefully we'll find out more about the thermal drop-down issues of the BT70 as the review progresses.
    Hey Cat,
    Thanks for the technical explanation of how the adjustable drivers work. Makes it easier to understand why there really isn't any negative aspect to the adjustable drivers other than the extra cost (which should be minimal).

    As far as you liking the preset power level settings I think this is something we just disagree on (my Gloworm XS is set @ 40/70/100% compared to the 2/15/40/100% of the BT70). I'm sure some of this is because the terrain we ride in is very different and personal preference too.

    Your comments on the BT70 running hot on turbo came as a surprise. The light-head temps Tigress99 published on the BT70 (110°-115°on turbo) seemed quite low to me. The BT21 runs 15°-20° hotter in similar tests and I've found it is good on turbo up to 100° stock and with the addition of one of Vancbiker's finned gopro mounts got me through several miles of single track on turbo, 105° temps., with no step-down a few nights ago. Your right though in the fact that it's better to give it some time and see how it performs for different people in varied circumstances. Looks promising though. Thanks for the reply.
    Mole
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 06-27-2015 at 11:42 PM. Reason: spelling

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    On lamps like Nitefighter's with dual control buttons, wonder why they don't just employ stepless dimming. MagicShine incorporates stepless in the 816 (from 5%-100%) but it is sort of a PITA because the single control button necessites pausing between directing modes up or down. The BT70's dual control button could allow immediate adjustment with stepless and solve that problem of the odd presets.

    I find the four brightness presets of the BT40S interface to be fine and imagine would prefer running two of those (or one of them along with some other NW lamp) on the bars rather than a single BT70, much as I am enamored of the latter's honeycomb array.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    ....As far as you liking the preset power level settings I think this is something we just disagree on (my Gloworm XS is set @ 40/70/100% compared to the 2/15/40/100% of the BT70). I'm sure some of this is because the terrain we ride in is very different and personal preference too.

    Your comments on the BT70 running hot on turbo came as a surprise. The light-head temps Tigress99 published on the BT70 (110°-115°on turbo) seemed quite low to me. The BT21 runs 15°-20° hotter in similar tests and I've found it is good on turbo up to 100° stock and with the addition of one of Vancbiker's finned gopro mounts got me through several miles of single track on turbo, 105° temps., with no step-down a few nights ago. Your right though in the fact that it's better to give it some time and see how it performs for different people in varied circumstances. Looks promising though. Thanks for the reply.
    Mole
    Thanks for the nice comments MM. I can't remember how I set my newest GWX2 but if my memory serves me I believe I ramped up the low slightly ( from default setting ) and lowered the mid setting so I have just the amount of light I need for normal riding. I do all this because I like a brighter low for slow climbs over gnarly trails and because I like being able to notice a major jump when I go to high. Going from low to medium there is only a small increase but for me this works.

    As for the mode spacing of the BT70; don't take those quoted ad figures to heart. Different ads say different things. One ad quoted the low as being "50 lumen". When I read that I said to myself, "WTF"! 50 freaking lums!...are they kidding"! Later I was to find out from tigris99 that the low was slightly brighter than the low on the BT40S. Thank God for that! I have a mini LED lamp/flasher for my road bike rated at 80 lumen and when on steady it is pathetic.

    While I have yet to see the output of the BT70 personally I'm thinking the *low mode is likely around 200-225 lumen. After that I have to let my imagination fly...medium maybe 400-500 lumen. High is likely 1000-1200 lumen. Boost is of course maximum output ( whatever that actually is, my guess...~2400 lumen? ) Really at this stage without seeing one myself it's a crap shoot.

    ( * note to above; When I check the Alibaba website they're listing the BT70 at > 100%-50%-20%-10%. I'm betting full output is more near 2400 lumen but that's just my CAt gut talking. Based on that maximum my previous guess-timate for the other modes would be pretty close to actual.

    If tigris99 says the lamp doesn't overheat on boost ( with ample air movement ) I'll take his word for it. Still I'd like to take the BT70 for a long downhill just to see what happens but of course I don't own one. I don't live near mountains. The longest hill nearest to me might take me 10-15 minutes to reach bottom, perhaps a bit longer if I don't pedal ( fireroad descent ) but if I don't pedal that wouldn't be as much fun. Matter of fact I might be doing that ride tomorrow. I say "might" because it rained like hell earlier today, I have to think that one out first. "Where to ride after an area wide day-long down pour..
    ...that's one of those questions I hate trying to figure out.

  73. #73
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    Ok since I couldn't ride did further testing last night.

    The pack protection matter: Had to have been just voltage sag under high load, was not able to trip the stock pack with over loading the current draw.

    Seems my previous temp tests were a bit biased. I have moved where I test and work I to my basement and is rather cool down there. In more realistic temps (82F ambient) this thing can get warm and if not enough air flow, thermal step down does work. I recorded temps ranging from 110F all the way up to 136F. But my 60-62F basement it doesn't seem to get more than about 112F on the wind tunnel (which is light head barely fits)

    Thermal step down does kick it all the way to medium.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Running LEDs in parallel is generally frowned upon. As they heat up the Vf drops so they take a higher current, and heat up more... and take a higher current... thermal runaway. I hope that LED in the middle has good heatsinking.


    2x3 would be a better solution and with a six cell battery.


    Ok:



    Thermal run away, not going to happen. Driver has a max current that's it, nothing more. Think you may have missed a few things about today's even cheap drivers. Thats why we have drivers instead of just hooking them directly to a battery. And a thermal step down. VF means nothing for going to low, driver hits max current and done. If emitters heat up and vf goes lower, output suffers.



    Series/parallel combo is not a solution to "your concern"(which is a problem that doesn't exist these days) Because that issue could still exist just as easily. The positive side of running a series is less current draw from batteries and less current running through the driver. More current=higher rated components and less run time. Series would cut current requirements in half but then require higher voltage battery pack which isn't a readily available option (most packs and cases out there are 4 cell).



    Is a series/parallel better in this case, yes but center emitter would gave to go.



    Is there anything wrong and is parallel going to cause some huge issue, HE** NO. lol.

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    I think the biggest variable is probably the velocity of the air from the fan. Do you have an anemometer? Even a small increase in air speed will dramatically increase the heat removal from the light. I think your fan may be generating way more air velocity than you think.

    I think all bike lights should be able to indefinitely operate on the highest setting at 15 mph of ground speed with ambient temperatures in the 80's F, in my opinion. If they can't do that,then they need more heat-removing surface area. The only exception should be something like a 10,000 lumen super-light that is meant for extreme downhill riding.

    I know there a few riders on this board who ride out in Arizona at 100F. That's probably an extreme outlier, but it would be nice if the lights could handle it without overheating. A light shouldn't need air moving at 30mph, in order to cool the light at the highest setting. That's a badly designed light!

    This light just doesn't seem to have enough surface area to cool the light. I believe the general rule of thumb is 10 square inches per watt. Isn't this light close to 30W? That would require 300 square inches of outside surface area. There's no way this light has this much surface area.

    Also, in my opinion, the more output a light has the more it needs a programmable driver. This light is probably in the category of needing a programmable driver.

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    Varider, not trying to be difficult here but post negatives and saying were wrong without having or testing lights (and having you surface area per watts way, way wrong) is not productive or helpful in any sense. Asking questions, cool, but your post is a bit much on the "trying to discredit for no other reason that hatred for people and products that you know nothing of" side of things.

    My fans tested with 2 different anemometers now, one saying 5.8mph, other said 6.7. Being that im a slower rider and ride in hot and humid weather, but most of the time my lights run far cooler during rides than during testing says my air speed is right on.

    As for southwest temps, you missing one valuable detail. The head starts at 100F then is powered on. Doesn't matter what it is, in those temps its going to run far hotter. And to not have any thermal issues requires light heads of mass and surface area (or serious lack of output) that would make them completely unusable for cycling.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ok since I couldn't ride did further testing last night.

    The pack protection matter: Had to have been just voltage sag under high load, was not able to trip the stock pack with over loading the current draw.

    Seems my previous temp tests were a bit biased. I have moved where I test and work I to my basement and is rather cool down there. In more realistic temps (82F ambient) this thing can get warm and if not enough air flow, thermal step down does work. I recorded temps ranging from 110F all the way up to 136F. But my 60-62F basement it doesn't seem to get more than about 112F on the wind tunnel (which is light head barely fits)

    Thermal step down does kick it all the way to medium.
    Ambient temp. does make a difference. No harm though, better to get this information out there for everyone's benefit. Max shell temps. similar to those I've seen on my BT21 so I expect (not guarantee) it should handle temps. up to just under 100° without step-down as long as you keep moving. For those like me who live in a warm climate it's a good candidate for a "Vancbiker finned gopro mount". Just to clarify, the step-down on the med. setting was with no airflow? Thanks for the update!

    (Tigris, I'm still playing around trying to figure a easy/effective way to direct some air across the back of the BT21. Nothing worthwhile yet but if I find something that works I'll notify you).
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Varider, not trying to be difficult here but post negatives and saying were wrong without having or testing lights (and having you surface area per watts way, way wrong) is not productive or helpful in any sense. Asking questions, cool, but your post is a bit much on the "trying to discredit for no other reason that hatred for people and products that you know nothing of" side of things.
    tigris99 , I had no idea you had an anemometer. I was merely trying to pose a question. I don't know why you took the wrong way. I sure as hell don't deserve that business about discrediting or hating products or people!

    The stuff I wrote about the surface area is something that I have read here in the forum. It was meant as a general question to the forum and not to you in particular. I was hoping whoever posted that would chime in and provide some insight. There's also a similar statement on this cree paper (pdf link)
    www.cree.com/xlamp_app_notes/thermal_management

    On page 11:
    A rough estimate of approximately 5-10 in^2 of heat sink surface area per watt of heat can be used for a first-order estimate of heat sink size.
    So I didn't completely imagine it after all. I was just asking for some clarification as I was thinking of purchasing this product.

    Yes, I am a bit skeptical of this light's ability to dissipate the heat at even normal ambient temperatures with it pulling 4 amps from the battery. But hey if you are telling me that the leds reach 110F with a 6mph breeze, then I'll take your word for it.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Thanks for the nice comments MM. I can't remember how I set my newest GWX2 but if my memory serves me I believe I ramped up the low slightly ( from default setting ) and lowered the mid setting so I have just the amount of light I need for normal riding. I do all this because I like a brighter low for slow climbs over gnarly trails and because I like being able to notice a major jump when I go to high. Going from low to medium there is only a small increase but for me this works.

    As for the mode spacing of the BT70; don't take those quoted ad figures to heart. Different ads say different things. One ad quoted the low as being "50 lumen". When I read that I said to myself, "WTF"! 50 freaking lums!...are they kidding"! Later I was to find out from tigris99 that the low was slightly brighter than the low on the BT40S. Thank God for that! I have a mini LED lamp/flasher for my road bike rated at 80 lumen and when on steady it is pathetic.

    While I have yet to see the output of the BT70 personally I'm thinking the *low mode is likely around 200-225 lumen. After that I have to let my imagination fly...medium maybe 400-500 lumen. High is likely 1000-1200 lumen. Boost is of course maximum output ( whatever that actually is, my guess...~2400 lumen? ) Really at this stage without seeing one myself it's a crap shoot.

    ( * note to above; When I check the Alibaba website they're listing the BT70 at > 100%-50%-20%-10%. I'm betting full output is more near 2400 lumen but that's just my CAt gut talking. Based on that maximum my previous guess-timate for the other modes would be pretty close to actual.

    If tigris99 says the lamp doesn't overheat on boost ( with ample air movement ) I'll take his word for it. Still I'd like to take the BT70 for a long downhill just to see what happens but of course I don't own one. I don't live near mountains. The longest hill nearest to me might take me 10-15 minutes to reach bottom, perhaps a bit longer if I don't pedal ( fireroad descent ) but if I don't pedal that wouldn't be as much fun. Matter of fact I might be doing that ride tomorrow. I say "might" because it rained like hell earlier today, I have to think that one out first. "Where to ride after an area wide day-long down pour..
    ...that's one of those questions I hate trying to figure out.
    I just wanted to clarify that (2/15/40/100%) step settings were not Nitefighter claims but calculated off the amp. draw information Tigris got in his tests. OTF light would probably be close to 10-20-50-100% published settings you found since the lights are more efficient at lower power levels (with the exception of the lowest setting, the lowest setting on my BT21 registers 6% of max on my light meter). Also Tigris has modified his case temp. readings using a more reasonable ambient temp. so it looks like your "wait and see how it goes" stratagy was pretty-dxxx-smart. Finally even though you and I disagree on whether 1200-1400 lumens is too big a jump to bridge from high to turbo it actually punctuates my point that a programmable driver would be of benefit for this light. What works for you (and those with similar needs) is a deal breaker for me (and those with similar needs) and could be solved with adjustability. The addition of this feature would make me a potential customer, even though your satisfied with the current set-up make you happier with the light (pretty sure I'm right on this), and expand the customer base this light appeals to (happy Nitefighter).
    Mole

    (Hope you get to ride tonight! I've been off the bike for about a week now because eye surgery and a good "Cat ride story" would be an uplifting vicarious experience)!
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 06-28-2015 at 11:22 AM. Reason: missing info

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    110 at 6.5mph at 60-62F. 80+ is a different story now that I actually measured temp difference between my basement and where I was testing previously. My wife kicked me off the kitchen table lol. But used an old card table then some hardwood flooring planks I had to make a solid top for it. Forgot i had some Brazilian walnut and some Tiger Wood my old job gave me cause they were going to just toss them. Solid and nice looking top for doing my tinkering, testing, and reviewing.



    I dont have an anemometer myself, know people that do which is how I tested on 2 different ones. I think in the bt21 thread I stated the air flow correction right after I had tested for actual results.



    Ya its alot of power to dissipate, but were riding mountain bikes not dirt bikes, needing turbo for all except brief sections....you need to go to the eye doctor lol. High is redonkulous on its own lol. My modded bt40s (xp-g2 s3 3c and driver boosted buy about 600mA iirc) is still not quite as bright on turbo as this thing is on high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ( in response to znomit ) > Thermal run away, not going to happen. Driver has a max current that's it, nothing more. Think you may have missed a few things about today's even cheap drivers. Thats why we have drivers instead of just hooking them directly to a battery. And a thermal step down. VF means nothing for going to low, driver hits max current and done. If emitters heat up and vf goes lower, output suffers.... .
    Actually znomit was not too far off base. Thermal runaway is indeed more a danger in parallel circuit applications but only if the heat management is poor. The idea is if one emitter over-heats more than the others the possibility exist that the Vf ( across the overly heated emitter ) will drop more than the others. When Vf drops across an emitter there is an increase in current through the emitter. This is similar in effect to a decrease in resistance to the component. This then makes the emitter more hotter thus creating the potential for thermal runaway as the current through the emitter increases more and more.

    While the driver only supplies so much current, it really doesn't matter. The available current follows the path of least resistance ( basic omhs law dealing with parallel circuits ) What current is available will be rerouted with more current going through the bad emitter as the problem escalates.
    Like I told znomit, this should not be a problem because the lamp has a thermal protection circuit to prevent this from happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    ...I think all bike lights should be able to indefinitely operate on the highest setting at 15 mph of ground speed with ambient temperatures in the 80's F, in my opinion. If they can't do that,then they need more heat-removing surface area. The only exception should be something like a 10,000 lumen super-light that is meant for extreme downhill riding. ..
    I entirely agree...Uh...except I really don't think anyone needs 10K lumen for downhilling.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ...Ya its a lot of power to dissipate, but were riding mountain bikes not dirt bikes, needing turbo for all except brief sections....you need to go to the eye doctor lol. High is redonkulous on its own lol. My modded bt40s (xp-g2 s3 3c and driver boosted buy about 600mA iirc) is still not quite as bright on turbo as this thing is on high.
    Your last sentence here is very encouraging. I also agree with your opinion that the "high mode" should be enough for most riding. If it's as bright on high as you indicate no one should be disappointed when using the high mode. Heck, if the medium is *450-500 that would be good enough for me for general moderate paced riding. (*This is about what I try to set my Gloworm X2 medium mode on.)

    Anyway, from what you said it sounds like the high mode on the BT70 might be around 1400-1500 lumen. I don't know about anyone else but that's way more light than I need for general ( medium pace ) riding.

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    Too me it just seems like a "false fear post". Making it sound like bt40s, most solarstorm lights, any lights that use more than 2 emitters on 8.4v pack a danger to use.

    I know there is more technical matters too it but now 50% of people are going to read this thread and see the bt70 is really dangerous. Those that read further will then realize all they can use is 1 or 2 emitter lamps cause they aren't parallel.

    See where im going. The risk is tiny and the drivers have safety mechanisms in the extremely rare instance it happens. Just like the "omg lithium batteries will kill my family and burn my house down" rep they have cause same kind of posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Anyway, from what you said it sounds like the high mode on the BT70 might be around 1400-1500 lumen. I don't know about anyone else but that's way more light than I need for general ( medium pace ) riding.
    If in fact these numbers are accurate it would make the BT70 far more usable for me (1500 being my preferred setting for a off-road/bar/NW emitter setup) but I remain skeptical. Don't know if it's possible to get that much OTF light out of a 1.9A battery draw, numbers don't add up to me.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Thermal run away, not going to happen. Driver has a max current that's it, nothing more. Think you may have missed a few things about today's even cheap drivers. Thats why we have drivers instead of just hooking them directly to a battery. And a thermal step down. VF means nothing for going to low, driver hits max current and done. If emitters heat up and vf goes lower, output suffers.
    In theory, 7 emitters in parallel will equally share the drive current. Reality is that out of 7 "identical" emitters there will be difference in the Vf for each emitter. The emitters with the lower Vf will flow more current than the ones with higher Vf. The lower Vf emitters will then heat up more than the ones with higher Vf. Hotter emitter means lower Vf and more current flow and so on and so on. Very good thermal path between all the parallel emitters will help minimize the potential for runaway, or.....

    One can avoid all this by matching the Vf among the LEDs to be run in parallel. A .05V difference in Vf will be fine. I've seen almost .2V difference in Vf while sorting XPGs for my 6 up light. Nitefighter could be sorting the emitters, or could have their supplier do it, or maybe just putting whatever they get in there. Who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    This light just doesn't seem to have enough surface area to cool the light. I believe the general rule of thumb is 10 square inches per watt. Isn't this light close to 30W? That would require 300 square inches of outside surface area. There's no way this light has this much surface area.
    In building my lights, I've found that 1 sq. in. per Watt will keep a light in the 120-140 range while riding at a moderate speed (8-10 mph) in the 50-65 degree air temp range. Double that area and a good walking pace will do. These numbers are for housings with the fins parallel to the direction of airflow and directly opposite the LED mounting surface. For lights with longer thermal paths or fins perpendicular to air flow, they may not work.

    10 sq. in. per Watt would be excellent for heat management, but would make for some huge lights.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post

    In building my lights, I've found that 1 sq. in. per Watt will keep a light in the 120-140 range while riding at a moderate speed (8-10 mph) in the 50-65 degree air temp range. Double that area and a good walking pace will do. These numbers are for housings with the fins parallel to the direction of airflow and directly opposite the LED mounting surface. For lights with longer thermal paths or fins perpendicular to air flow, they may not work.

    10 sq. in. per Watt would be excellent for heat management, but would make for some huge lights.
    Thanks for the info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Too me it just seems like a "false fear post". Making it sound like bt40s, most solarstorm lights, any lights that use more than 2 emitters on 8.4v pack a danger to use.

    I know there is more technical matters too it but now 50% of people are going to read this thread and see the bt70 is really dangerous. Those that read further will then realize all they can use is 1 or 2 emitter lamps cause they aren't parallel.

    See where im going. The risk is tiny and the drivers have safety mechanisms in the extremely rare instance it happens. Just like the "omg lithium batteries will kill my family and burn my house down" rep they have cause same kind of posts.
    No worries. It's just folks here talking asking questions and raising concerns. No different than any other review of a Chinese made lamp. No reason to get over defensive. The BT70 looks to have a lot to offer but at the moment you are the only one that has one so all the questions or doubts will seem to be aimed at the things you have said. When more people get theirs I'm sure there will be more opinions to deal with. Regardless, I don't think there is going to be anything to worry about as long as the product doesn't start to fail catastrophically.

    **I offered to reviewed this lamp as well but apparently the people who supplied the previous Nitefighter product to me for review decided not to even respond to my e-mails. While I can take a, "Thank you for offering but we need no more reviews" response, I get somewhat perturbed if no response at all is given to my e-mail and I'm totally ignored. FWIW, I'd buy one ( just like I did with the others ) but I have to wait for "light head only" to be offered. I'm not going to drop $91 for the full set-up.

    ( **I don't offer to review lamps that I think might be junk and I have refused to review some lamps because of that. )

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    Only bad thing typing on a forum, words from one person can come across differently to others. I just try to avoid fears of malfunctions that can be dangerous unless warranted. Chinese lights cause enough fears lol, so trying to help people realize that some like real solarstorm, yinding, nitefighter, some KD lights, are a few steps above that junk and nothing to worry about.

  88. #88
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    Ok so gearbest gave me a coupon code for like $3 off current price ($91), so price is $87.99. Code is BT70GB

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    Any news on light head only?

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    I'll post when/if there is any info on getting a lighthead only. Its one of those things where demand has to be there I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I entirely agree...Uh...except I really don't think anyone needs 10K lumen for downhilling.
    Don't lie Cat, you know you would buy one

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlSto View Post
    Any news on light head only?
    Contact Nitefighter directly for this. I paid less than $40 total for mine using Aliexpress. Of course it's on the slow boat and won't be here for another couple of weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sluglike View Post
    Contact Nitefighter directly for this. I paid less than $40 total for mine using Aliexpress. Of course it's on the slow boat and won't be here for another couple of weeks.
    Thanks for this advice. Did you contact them through aliexpress or the [email protected] e-mail?
    Last edited by SlSto; 06-29-2015 at 11:52 AM. Reason: error

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    I contacted them through the sales email address asking for a lighthead only. We then did the sale through AliExpress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sluglike View Post
    I contacted them through the sales email address asking for a lighthead only. We then did the sale through AliExpress.
    Thanks. The jury is out on whether i get one as I have the BT40s and BT21 plus a number of other lights that I really don't need. This forum is dangerous - I had a 9 month break and coming back has been costly!

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    Lol ya I feel you on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sluglike View Post
    I contacted them through the sales email address asking for a lighthead only. We then did the sale through AliExpress.
    Do you have the AliExpress link where you got the lamp only?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I just wanted to clarify that (2/15/40/100%) step settings were not Nitefighter claims but calculated off the amp. draw information Tigris got in his tests. OTF light would probably be close to 10-20-50-100% published settings
    I'm really new to this stuff and am wondering what would happen if you were to change the current sense resistor to lower turbo mode to a more useable level.

    Would the lower light levels reduce their output in a linear amount or does it mostly affect turbo mode?

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    All modes would lower (at least with typical Chinese drivers). They generally use PWM to regulate lower modes as a percentage of high (or Turbo in this case).

    -Garry

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    I'm really new to this stuff and am wondering what would happen if you were to change the current sense resistor to lower turbo mode to a more useable level.

    Would the lower light levels reduce their output in a linear amount or does it mostly affect turbo mode?
    Eveything will scale down.

    Tigriss have you done a tear down yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Do you have the AliExpress link where you got the lamp only?

    I don't have a direct link. I emailed them, made arrangements for the lighthead only and then went to the link they have and placed an order. They then sent a link back with the adjusted price.

    On AliExpress you can sign up and place an order without entering your CC information. It was odd, but that's how it worked for me. Email them at the address further up in the thread and they can get you set up.

  102. #102
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    Well be careful, just informed why gearbest doesn't have them as light head yet, they have almost none left in NW tint to sell as light head only. So better make sure their NW. Gearbest will be stocking them in a couple weeks or so when they are ready again.

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    My acquaintance with GB began with a disappointment( The order date is Jun 25, 2015 08:46:57 AM, and the status is still "Processing". I ask them why? They sent an answer: "We are now testing the items (QC check) for you. Please kindly wait 3-5 days for the order to be shipped."
    What?? A week out to send the goods which is in stock?
    What are they testing?
    I feel like a fool ..

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    What are they testing?
    Maybe they are checking that the batteries are actually batteries...
    Review: GearBest Triple XM-L2 3 Mode Bike Light- Mtbr.com

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    Maybe.. But it is unfair to start testing product for sale upon payment. Yes, even during the week (( I even paid for expedited shipping ..
    I wrote to them that I am from mtbr. In the war, all means are good ..

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    I hope you don't actually believe they're testing anything. But in my personal collection of "reasons" used by Chinese sellers in response to the questions about delayed orders, "testing" wasn't encountered yet...

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    Ok just got mine in and WOW is this thing bright. Initial impression of the Nitefighter lights is quality, everything is packaged in a nice case, including an extra optic and the anodizing is perfect. The tint, similar to the BT21 is very neutral, maybe 4-5C. I was worried about it with the BT21 yet out on the trail, it's nice and bright without any real yellow and blends well with my 3C XT40.

    One thing that remains a question is the switch, it's a bit recessed and the high and low buttons are kind of small. It's one big soft silicone button/cover with switches behind it, yet you really need to push it in quite a bit in the right spots to to go brighter or dimmer. I'm wondering if it will be easy enough on a technical, bumpy trail at speed. I would have preferred a more rigid toggle that extended out.

    All in all these are the best budget kits on the market, so thanks Tigris and even Andy, who first introduced us to Nitefighter.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    Maybe.. But it is unfair to start testing product for sale upon payment. Yes, even during the week (( I even paid for expedited shipping ..


    I wrote to them that I am from mtbr. In the war, all means are good ..


    Im on it, not sure what's going on but it'll get taken care of asap. Are there any other items in your order besides your bt70. I have seen delays caused by other items that went out of stock, trying to buy loose cells can mess with expedited shipping, etc.

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    To be correctly, I might add, there are a few cheap things in order. It may be a delay because of them, not because of the lights. But I think it's all the same is not fair. The money that I paid for acceleration - already lost(
    Please do not answer me so as not to divert the topic aside. And I am sorry for offtopic.



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    Tigris99 Any group buys coming up on the bt70? My Girl friend has my new Bt40s and loves it. LOL
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson C

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    No group buys just the coupon code on top of the discounted price on the site. Code is BT70GB

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    OK GOT A BREAK FROM THE WEATHER FOR A FEW DAYS, well hopefully a few days, but going out tonight to test the bt70 out. Thinking I need more gopro mounts for the bars Reviewing a new gopro clone too and testing my custom bt21 tonight. Had to steal my sons gopro mount adapter so I had enough as the one with the camera isnt for handlebars.


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    FINALLY!...Gearbest is providing the BT70 lamp head only ( Yea! ). Click on the option for "Simple Set".

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    FINALLY!...Gearbest is providing the BT70 lamp head only ( Yea! ). Click on the option for "Simple Set".
    Not that I need one, but I couldn't resist at that crazy price. I half think that's a mistake similar to the BT21 light head when it was first listed.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    FINALLY!...Gearbest is providing the BT70 lamp head only ( Yea! ). Click on the option for "Simple Set".
    Link? not seeing it on GB site.

    nevermind. It shows up now.

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    I just received my BT70 and BT21 shipped from GearBest and noticed that neither of them came with the GoPro adapter that was supposed to be included. Did anyone else have this issue?

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    Their not included anymore, they haven't been but they must have forgot to update the site info. Nitefighter stopped making them cause they are made wrong anyway.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    FINALLY!...Gearbest is providing the BT70 lamp head only ( Yea! ). Click on the option for "Simple Set".
    Package does not contain even a replacement lens?

  119. #119
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    Its lighthead and mounting bands only, that's how they all are (except bt21). Have to buy the kit to get the other stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Not that I need one, but I couldn't resist at that crazy price. I half think that's a mistake similar to the BT21 light head when it was first listed.
    I hope not because I just dropped in on one. At that price who can resist?

  121. #121
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    OK better Comparison of BT40s vs BT70

    BT40S on turbo:



    BT70 on turbo:



    Working on sorting out the little video I got from tonight. Gotta say this SooCoo C10 gopro clone is FREAKING WAY BETTER THAN MY ION at night!!!!

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    Nice hotspot!! It would be better to see more the comparison of low and high) and BT70 - the difference between the lenses ..

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    Does anyone have the thought about the remote switch for this light?
    I do not think of anything better than two of these buttons
    Waterproof remote switch - $10.00 : Easy2LED.com, The store for LED DIY

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Its lighthead and mounting bands only, that's how they all are (except bt21). Have to buy the kit to get the other stuff.
    I look at beamshots and thinking: did I need the second lens? It is useful?

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    OK better Comparison of BT40s vs BT70

    BT40S on turbo:



    BT70 on turbo:



    Working on sorting out the little video I got from tonight. Gotta say this SooCoo C10 gopro clone is FREAKING WAY BETTER THAN MY ION at night!!!!
    You may have mentioned it earlier but how does using the different lenses compare. Like Avard, i am curious as to what I am missing by just ordering the lighthead...

  126. #126
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    The other lens is a wider beam pattern. There is pics earlier in the thread of the wide angle optic.



    I can't answer if you'll find it useful or not. Advard ordered a kit last I knew so he gets the lens with it.
    Last edited by tigris99; 07-01-2015 at 11:23 AM.

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    GearBest Expedited Shipping


    When I made my last order (6/24) I noticed the "expedited shipping" option had changed from DHL to Hong Kong UPS. China to Arizona delivery in 7 days, a little longer than my DHL experience but still a good value for less than $3 extra. Thought I'd post to give everyone an idea of what to expect using the expedited delivery option.
    Mole

    (Looks like things have changed on the website. What less than $3 is now $14.53.
    A bit pricy for me but at least this is an example of how long it should take. Hope it's just a website glitch!)

    "ORDER AMOUNT EFFECTS SHIPPING PRICE"
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 07-02-2015 at 05:26 AM. Reason: New information

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    When I made my last order (6/24) I noticed the "expedited shipping" option had changed from DHL to Hong Kong UPS. China to Arizona delivery in 7 days, a little longer than my DHL experience but still a good value for less than $3 extra. Thought I'd post to give everyone an idea of what to expect using the expedited delivery option.
    Mole
    Hmmm. When go on the site the expedited shipping is $14.53 extra. Am I missing something?

  129. #129
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    The cost changes based on your location. Its not the same for everywhere. Its what the shipping couriers charge to deliver express shipping to your location

  130. #130
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    ???????? I checked the site and placed a mock order and I guess things have changed since 6/24 or it's a website error because what was less than $3 is indeed now $14.53. If this ends up being correct for a inexpensive light this probable isn't the best way to go. I'll fix my last post.
    Mole

    "ORDER AMOUNT EFFFECTS SHIPPING PRICE"
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 07-02-2015 at 05:28 AM.

  131. #131
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    I ordered even tho don't really need it but for the 31 bucks couldn't resist. However, took screen snap shot of order but never got conf that I ordered. Does this take a bit. Usually U get immediate conf and email they are working on it. Hmmm.

  132. #132
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    Takes a few minutes for the email to send to you.

    Mole, for me its usually around $11 for that option. Not sure why it keeps changing cause at one point I got expedited for $1. Wonder if website is just bugged. Their system isn't always the greatest cause they keep messing with EVERYTHING lol. Just look at the 20 different shipping methods they use.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    ???????? I checked the site and placed a mock order and I guess things have changed since 6/24 or it's a website error because what was less than $3 is indeed now $14.53. If this ends up being correct for a inexpensive light this probable isn't the best way to go. I'll fix my last post.
    Mole
    I've noticed something similar

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    There is pics earlier in the thread of the wide angle optic.
    I found it. But without comparison - it is difficult to understand how it shines ..
    Nitefighter BT70 User Review:- Mtbr.com

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post

    Mole, for me its usually around $11 for that option. Not sure why it keeps changing cause at one point I got expedited for $1. Wonder if website is just bugged. Their system isn't always the greatest cause they keep messing with EVERYTHING lol. Just look at the 20 different shipping methods they use.
    My last 2 orders from GearBest I got the $3 rate, too bad if this is a permanent change 'cause I liked this option. It won't stop me from buying from them since I've had no problems, I'll just wait a little longer like I did on my Yinding. Taking a positive outlook about this, It will be like getting a free light-head after every 10 orders!
    Mole

    "ORDER AMOUNT EFFECCTS SHIPPING PRICE"
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 07-02-2015 at 05:29 AM.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    I found it. But without comparison - it is difficult to understand how it shines ..

    Nitefighter BT70 User Review:- Mtbr.com

    I only have one light head and limited time (time to ride my bike is far more important than all this ) but it is wider, less throw beam pattern.

  137. #137
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    When I bought the BT70 and the BT21 in the same order, I got Hong Kong UPS expedited for free. Ordered on the 24th and got it delivered the morning of the 30th.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by stutru View Post
    When I bought the BT70 and the BT21 in the same order, I got Hong Kong UPS expedited for free. Ordered on the 24th and got it delivered the morning of the 30th.
    I just ordered those two together, on 6/27. So far, no shipping confirmation or anything.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by stutru View Post
    When I bought the BT70 and the BT21 in the same order, I got Hong Kong UPS expedited for free. Ordered on the 24th and got it delivered the morning of the 30th.
    Thanks for posting this, it got me thinking. I did a couple of more mock orders and it appears like the shipping charges depend on how much you spend. Seems fair to me but it would be nice to know what to expect before you order.
    Mole

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    Tigris, Help Please!



    When you get a chance could you check on the "Expedited Shipping" charge policy please. I did a few mock orders with the results being $14.53 on a BT70 light-head, 3.53 on a BT21 kit, $0 on a BT70 & BT21 kit combo. It would be nice to know what to expect in advance so we can plan our orders with consideration for the most cost effective shipping too. Thanks!
    Mole

  141. #141
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    My prices are lower. $11, $1.30, $0 in the same order as yours. Based on all the orders ive done the shipping charge varies based on price, weight/size, and location of delivery. My expedited is between the international ????? (can never remember what it's called) and DHL, yet to see the ups option though ups drives past my house daily so I would have figured itd be cheaper even if a day or 2 slower than DHL.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    My prices are lower. $11, $1.30, $0 in the same order as yours. Based on all the orders ive done the shipping charge varies based on price, weight/size, and location of delivery. My expedited is between the international ????? (can never remember what it's called) and DHL, yet to see the ups option though ups drives past my house daily so I would have figured itd be cheaper even if a day or 2 slower than DHL.
    Thanks! This has been informative for me any way on dealing with GearBest orders. Makes the light-head only option far less attractive unless your not in a hurry. FYI, Shipping charges on my UPS order were slightly higher than the DHL order for the same product.
    Mole

  143. #143
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    I read my own forum - long time sending is a "normal thing" for GearBest. And support lies plays a not better role in this case( I do not know what to do.. Wait?
    How much? I wrote support agent through a social network..

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    I do not know what to do.. Wait?
    How much?
    I don't think there's any universal recommendation. As long as PayPal protection isn't expired, you're safe anyway - so, relax and treat this as a common "side effect" of buying from China...

  145. #145
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    Also ordered yesterday AM and never even received any confirmation that I even ordered. Usually you get something that says they received the order and will fill it, etc, etc.

    I saved the order confirmation page to my computer just in case. Is this how they work and the product just arrives anytime, 1 week, 2 3 or 4. Whatever, don't really care, not in a hurry but would at least like a confirmation that they have the order. Huh.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Also ordered yesterday AM and never even received any confirmation that I even ordered. Usually you get something that says they received the order and will fill it, etc, etc.

    I saved the order confirmation page to my computer just in case. Is this how they work and the product just arrives anytime, 1 week, 2 3 or 4. Whatever, don't really care, not in a hurry but would at least like a confirmation that they have the order. Huh.
    All my orders I got a confirmation notice from GearBest and a notification from PayPal that they had paid the vendor (within a hour). I'd send GearBest an email if I were you, something doesn't sound right.
    Mole

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    I just went to order the lighthead-only option and it says it's on backorder until July 20. So I bet people who ordered one in the last two days won't get one until that shipment comes in. I decided to delay my order.

  148. #148
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    Ya the complaints on several forums about that I finally convinced them to fix the site so it says "backordered" or "preorder" depending on the situation. Work in progress but all of us are actually being heard and gearbest is trying to improve.

    Mb323323- if you didn't get an email from PayPal then you didn't finish putting your order in. In which case you wont get an email because the order wasn't put through and paid for.

  149. #149
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    Mb323323, it seems to me, first of all, you need to visit PayPal and see is there something about this payment. It is most important.

  150. #150
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    Would I be very disadvantaged using a 5800 gw battery. Would be predominantly using medium, occasionally using high, and rarely using turbo. Trying to decide whether to get light only or set. I already have a good collection of batteries.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    My prices are lower. $11, $1.30, $0 in the same order as yours. Based on all the orders ive done the shipping charge varies based on price, weight/size, and location of delivery. My expedited is between the international ????? (can never remember what it's called) and DHL, yet to see the ups option though ups drives past my house daily so I would have figured itd be cheaper even if a day or 2 slower than DHL.
    Like MMole, I too am trying to understand the shipping options. My question; which of the Gearbest shipping options is really going to be the fastest. I'd be willing to pay $10 or so for shipping but I want the items in at least 5-6 work days.

    DHL is okay but in the few times I've had orders come through them they really don't like to leave a package without someone to sign for it. In my situation that doesn't work out very well. In a pinch I can call DHL and have them hold the package at the airport depot. In my line of work I know where all the major shipping couriers are located at the airport. I hate doing it that way but it's what I have to do when dealing with DHL.

    UPS on the other hand will usually leave the package at my door.

  152. #152
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    As long as their good batteries your fine. Cheap Chinese packs wont cut it for this light. Medium and high will be no problems at all, its turbo that a high end pack is needed otherwise run time and output is going to suffer badly. Just remember, run time is based on cell capacity, smaller rated pack, less run time.

    @ cat, if you gave a phone number, DHL txts you and gives you a link where you can authorize to just leave it. I just told my driver leave them since they have a signature on file and all is fine. Fastest shipping is expedited but light head is out of stock atm.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ...As long as their good batteries your fine. Cheap Chinese packs wont cut it for this light. Medium and high will be no problems at all, its turbo that a high end pack is needed otherwise run time and output is going to suffer badly. Just remember, run time is based on cell capacity, smaller rated pack, less run time...

    .
    If I were to buy a BT70 lamp head, even though I have some very good 4-cell batteries I would definitely consider buying a reliable 6-cell battery using at least very good Sanyo/Panasonic or Samsung 2600mAh cells. The BT70 coupled with the Xeccon 7800mah ( Samsung ) soft-shell battery would be perfect. ( *Note; some Xeccon batteries are shipped from USA but some aren't. Supplies always limited. )

    Going forward, if Nitefighter was smart they should offer this lamp with a 6-cell BAK 7800mAh option ( for maybe $15 more ). Do that and the full kits would be flying off the shelves. Heck, if they did that I would of bought one when first available.

    I'm going to hold off on the BT70 for now. I'll wait till my Solarstorm XT40 neutral comes in before I decide to toss down more money. Not to mention I still need to send off the Gloworm for retro-neutral refit. I really do want to use my Gloworm X2 again! I'm spending way too much money this year on bike light ***t. I need to wind it back some.

  154. #154
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    ^ Does that battery come with the right connector?

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ Does that battery come with the right connector?
    No, they switched over to using their proprietary square connector. I think they can me made to fit, but I'm not sure. I always thought switching connectors was a big mistake.

  156. #156
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    Well, that really sucks!

  157. #157
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    I have two Xeccon batteries with the square connectors and they fit my BT21 fine. Water proof would be another story but you can get round to square adapters from Xeccon.
    Mole

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ Does that battery come with the right connector?
    Yes, it does. The square-ish ( Xeccon ) rubber connector on the battery comes with an adapter but really it isn't needed. The square-ish connector actually works BETTER with the typical ( round ) MS connector then the original but that's my opinion. If you own one you will see what I mean. It also works BETTER than the standard ( round, MS ) connectors when using the Solarstorm products.

    FWIW, all of my lamps use either typical MS connectors or the Solarstorm connectors. With the SStorm plugs there is no need to use the screw on sleeve ( with Xeccon battery ) as the plug end nestles nice and tight inside the square rubber outer cover. While I can use the SStorm lamp with standard MS connectors as well the Xeccons are better and have a tighter fit.

  159. #159
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    I am very disappointed with GearBest store. The support continues to lie about quality control. But the store agent contacted me and said: "The reason is that the flashlight mount in your order is out of stock now, and we have already purchased it"
    How can it be? After I paid for the factory set!
    And again playing for time: what kind of flashlight mount exactly?
    How long should I wait?
    What are the solutions to their problems - not at my expense?
    I am close to the opening of Paypal dispute((

    Where else sold Nitefighter BT70 ?

  160. #160
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    That is what I tried to explain. Its a problem being worked on, one part of your order is out of stock. That's what is holding it up. I finally have them fixing the website (will be a long process) that any item out of stock says backordered so you are aware of it prior to order.



    The agent was my rep, I forwarded the issue to have it looked into. Actually its a good thing that these matters are being posted here, its getting the message to those in charge over there that their way of doing things isn't working, so they are making changes.



    Advard, just tell them to ship the flashlight mount later (wont be fast shipping) and all will be good to go hopefully.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Advard, just tell them to ship the flashlight mount later (wont be fast shipping) and all will be good to go hopefully.
    Thank you, tigris. I understand your rep uncorrectly( Look at the correspondence with support.. They do not consider that the flashlight mount is not in stock. At the same time, they closed the dialogue without my consent! But my questions is not more offensive than in their false responses.
    Who should I ask to send all without mount?
    (In general - they had to offer it. And long time ago it would have been good. And while the story is reminiscent of fools home. And, apparently, I'm insane here ..)

    I am writing here about my problems because it can warn other people.

    Last edited by Advard; 07-03-2015 at 01:57 PM.

  162. #162
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    I won't do business ever agiain with this company. They sent me a PP invoice trying to get me to pay another $174 for the bt70 and 21 lights that I already paid for a week ago. And, still no shippng confirmation.

  163. #163
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  164. #164
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    Just I was chatting on the GB. They continue to claim that the goods in the QC! And I have to wait a little more .. For the first time encountered such a madhouse( The fact is that, so it can take a long time. There are no guarantees!

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I won't do business ever agiain with this company. They sent me a PP invoice trying to get me to pay another $174 for the bt70 and 21 lights that I already paid for a week ago. And, still no shippng confirmation.

    Just send them the PayPal transaction info showing its already paid. Biggest problem is language barriers, so communication problems. Granted these issues come up (I see them with every site that's in china, get aggravating I know) and they shouldn't.

    Im doing best I can and progress is slow, but the more aware (postings on forums) they are made of the problem and how unhappy people are becoming over it, hopefully it will help get the issues corrected more quickly.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advard View Post
    Always good to have another option. Thanks for the link.

    Advard, I'm sorry to learn that you had a bad experience with Gearbest. When dealing with any Customer Service Support from a Chinese website it is very important to exercise patience. It is also VERY important to be very polite and clear when filing a complaint. It is also important to understand that sometimes there are going to be unexpected delays in receiving the product that you ordered. This is very much standard procedure when buying anything from a Chinese website and Gearbest is no exception to this rule. I too have had my last order from Gearbest unexpectedly delayed. While I am not happy about it I accept it because they are the only ones to give me a decent price for what I wanted. ( *Not to mention the only ones to offer the product I wanted )

    Believe me, it doesn't matter what Chinese website you buy from. All of them operate pretty much the same. The biggest differences are in what products they offer and how well they handle shipments and other customer related issues. While we now know that Gearbest is far from perfect we do know that they endeavor to please. They are one of the few Chinese companies to actively offer specific products and group deals to the forum members. Occasionally they will run short on stock. It happens.

    Going forward, it is my hope that Gearbest will be more forthcoming when they decide to backorder. They need to keep the buyer updated on the status of their order. If something cannot be shipped immediately because of a shortage of stock the buyer needs to be notified immediately. For what it's worth, not all companies will do this before they delay an order so it's not that unusual. Hopefully Gearbest will be quick to remedy this very important customer service issue.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I won't do business ever agiain with this company. They sent me a PP invoice trying to get me to pay another $174 for the bt70 and 21 lights that I already paid for a week ago. And, still no shippng confirmation.
    First, "do what tigris said".

    Second, check your paypal account. Make sure there wasn't a problem with the Credit account being used. It's possible the payment never cleared if there is a problem with a credit card. I doubt this happened but you never know.

  168. #168
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    Back when I first asked GearBest to customize some lights for us, we were given a direct customer service person named Dora who ensured that we got great service. She moved up to another department and was replaced by May, who handles this forum and is assisted by Nefertari.

    If you have any issues, contact May first and skip GB general customer service. Customer service is out of touch with what the forum is discussing and slow, which is why we have our own rep.

    Her email is [email protected].

  169. #169
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    On the bright side (no pun intended) all my area trails are OPEN, no rain in forecast till monday afternoon. Already rode today after we decided to call it done on getting overgrowth and downfall cleared. Still got some to do tomorrow (weed clearing on trail sides, downfall all clear) but hopefully getting out to do some night riding after fireworks tomorrow night wont be out of the question with the wife. Sunday for sure though at the trails I used for bt21/bt40s videos.

  170. #170
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    Well, I do not know. I feel happy or capricious child?
    Whatever it was - we won!
    I want to thank my mom, because she gave birth to me. (stop laugh!))))
    I would like to thank all those people here, who made efforts to ensure, that high-quality bike light become more accessible.
    I want to thank everyone, who supported me here, on the forum.
    And special thanks to tigris99 and GJHS. Without they help (Nefertari, thank you!) only hopelessness was waiting for me..

    Ladies and Gentlemen!
    My order shipped today.
    (of course, maybe not yet - until Monday. Who knows? But this is the result of)
    Shipped, without God dammit mount, which should be sending later.

    There were no without misunderstandings. In a letter from GB written:
    "The package should normally take 10-25 business days to arrive (approximately)."
    But, when I paid for delivery it was: "Standard Shipping 6 - 8 business days"
    Well, wait and - see!

  171. #171
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    My humble opinion about the BT70 head only version available from GB is that it should come with the mount and both wide and spot lens.

  172. #172
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    Well they could probably offer it but it would cost more. No light heads in this price range come with extra optics, have to source then yourself. Usually even kits dont come with a different optic, you get what you get and that's it. I think its cool they actually supply a different beam pattern with the kits.

  173. #173
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    Ok after riding tonight:



    You don't want the wide angle lens anyway. Stock lens is plenty wide enough and wide angle really kills output out the front. Not in a way of lumens lost, but it becomes REALLY floody (ill try to remember to set up a controlled beam shot to compare the 2). The spot on the stock optic is really big with some spill and lots of throw. Wide angle more or less kills the throw and spreads the spot over the entire area of the beam.

    I dont like it as even on my other trail options that are wider, beam just TOO wide. The huge spot with a little spill of stock lens is AWESOME though. I ran it on medium alot of the time high on the fast decent at the end.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    You don't want the wide angle lens anyway.
    Well, you said what I wanted to hear!

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    My humble opinion about the BT70 head only version available from GB is that it should come with the mount and both wide and spot lens.
    With this lamp?!! You want a flood optic?!!...WHY? This lamp more than likely has more spill than any other lamp out there. FWIW, I noticed when running two BT40S lamps that use the standard spot quad optic that I have so much light in the first 100ft. that it actually changes the glare factor in the foreground because it is so bright.. Nope, If I'm using two lamps ( or more emitters in the case of the BT70 ) I need more of that light to go forward. I have enough in the foreground with just one BT40S.

  176. #176
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    I would like to get the BT70, but have some questions about the battery pack. Would a solarforce pack with removable 18650 cells work with this? I already have a charger and a bunch of 18650's, and would like to use them instead. Is there a holder that is recommended by this forum that will work with this lighthead?

  177. #177
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    As posted before:

    Requires quality brand name cells, and plenty of capacity

    Has magicshine style connector will need to use matching style

    Have to use no less than 4 cell 8.4v pack with brand name cells. 8.4v 6 cell is preferred but not required.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    As posted before:

    Requires quality brand name cells, and plenty of capacity

    Has magicshine style connector will need to use matching style

    Have to use no less than 4 cell 8.4v pack with brand name cells. 8.4v 6 cell is preferred but not required.
    Right, I saw that. Are there any battery holders that you recommend that have the magicshine style connector? I do not have a magicshine light, so I don't know what it looks like. If not, I can solder up a connector to the solarforce holder, can I get that on gearbest too?
    thanks

  179. #179
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    Oh and the protection circuit matter :



    Replicated it last night while doing "real world testing" on the heat on turbo mode. Was while not moving seems current spiked just briefly (fully charged pack) but unplugging it and plugging it back in, it reset and was fine the rest of the time. Only does it if left on turbo on a fresh pack. Seems they didn't account for the current spike that happens with all drivers (can briefly spike above regulation very briefly) and the max output of Panasonic cells.



    So just limit use of turbo for the first few minutes if using stock pack. It only does it the one time when head first heats up on turbo and that's it.

  180. #180
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    I don't know the angles of both optics. If the spot optic is sufficient I am happy with that. I am used to my Power 7-up dual setup that both use reflectors and the beam seems very wide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    With this lamp?!! You want a flood optic?!!...WHY? This lamp more than likely has more spill than any other lamp out there. FWIW, I noticed when running two BT40S lamps that use the standard spot quad optic that I have so much light in the first 100ft. that it actually changes the glare factor in the foreground because it is so bright.. Nope, If I'm using two lamps ( or more emitters in the case of the BT70 ) I need more of that light to go forward. I have enough in the foreground with just one BT40S.

  181. #181
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    If ur used to reflectors the spot optics are going to provide far more flood than your used to. And the spot is huge too.

  182. #182
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    When I compared the yinding with optics and the 7-up with reflectors the yinding was spotty. Hence I thought it would be nice to have 2 lenses and decide after trying 'em out.

  183. #183
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    Ya the yinding to me is spotty stock. I dont like the wide optic for this cause you loose too much light, the stock one the spot itself is going to be more what your used to but the spill will be more smooth from spot to outer edge, and the area outside the spot is better illuminated. Reflectors actually usually have a tighter spot, less smooth transition vs optics.


    So last light I needed to discharge one of my fenix cases with unprotected Panasonics in it. So I just used this light since it pulls 4.8A on turbo......

    Now I see why it can trip protection circuit. It hit 5.5A draw off my 2 cell pack before I turned it down to high. First light ive seen do that, jump that much over stock testing when I plug in a fully charged fenix case with Panasonics in it. DEFINATELY DRAINED THE PACK IN A HURRY lol.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    As posted before:

    Requires quality brand name cells, and plenty of capacity

    Has magicshine style connector will need to use matching style

    Have to use no less than 4 cell 8.4v pack with brand name cells. 8.4v 6 cell is preferred but not required.
    We have just added 2 new Magicshine packs that might be of interest. The MJ-6038C, a 6200mAh 4 cell pack built with Panasonic cells, and the MJ-6036P, a 9300mAh 6 cell pack also with Panasonic cells. (the MJ-6036 would need a MJ-6070 adapter for the connector)
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

  185. #185
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    So I am looking to start nightriding and have no lights at all. Would the BT70, full package with battery included, be enough? I'm thinking helmet mounted. Or is a bar mounted light necessary as well with this light?

    Which 2 would you get if you were to start from scratch like me? Thanks.

  186. #186
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    Get 2 separate light systems. That way when one quits, you'll still be able to get back to the car.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  187. #187
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    And I just have a spare battery ..

  188. #188
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    No way I would put this on the helmet though this thing is a beast of a light. Use something smaller and use this on the bars. This as a kit (has confirmed Panasonic cells) is good to go for bar light.

  189. #189
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    Ok, I ordered the BT70. I'll try it on the bars and go from there.

  190. #190
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    Its not a good idea to night ride without at least a flashlight for back up. If you forget to charge your battery, or out longer than battery will run, etc, you can be stuck without any light. At least carry a decent flashlight and way to mount it for emergencies.

  191. #191
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    I received my BT70 lighthead today. This is very high quality for the price.

    I haven't had a chance to ride with it yet, that will come later this week. In the meantime I've shined it against the wall in the garage to see what it had.

    The amount of light on the highest setting seems very similar to the TrustFire TR-D014. The transition from the hotspot on the BT70 is much more gradual than that of the D014. I never cared for the strong hotspot on the TR-D014 and am pleased with what I've seen so far.

  192. #192
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    Yes, it seems that TR-D014, Power 7-up and BT70 draw nearly the same amount of current from the packs. It is just the optics vs various reflectors.

  193. #193
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    Just looking at the X6 review and the mounting of leds and this got me thinking there wasn't much info on this for the BT70. I think read something somewhere but can't find it now. Do the leds mount onto a solid board that is part of the body and therefore helping to transfer heat from leds directly to the body.

  194. #194
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    They all mount one big PCB that sits on a solid flat surface that's part of the casing. Exact same way as the bt40s (thought I posted a pic I must not have cause I can't find it)

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    They all mount one big PCB that sits on a solid flat surface that's part of the casing. Exact same way as the bt40s (thought I posted a pic I must not have cause I can't find it)
    Thanks

  196. #196
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    So if this is run on the bars, what is a great light to compliment on the helmet? My current favorite combo is an XT40 on the helmet with a Yinding on the bars.

  197. #197
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    I use bt21 on the helmet with glowworm spot optics. If your xt40 is neutral white version then keep using it if you like it for a helmet light.

  198. #198
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    OK video review done, got some good trail riding in tonight, but forgot to set my camera to 720 at 30FPS...so quality not the greatest, sorry. Didnt realize it till I started compiling the hole video. But still pretty good, see how finished product comes out.

  199. #199
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    Video won't play.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    They all mount one big PCB that sits on a solid flat surface that's part of the casing. Exact same way as the bt40s (thought I posted a pic I must not have cause I can't find it)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfnUC1FMkI8

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