Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Good job! Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light

    As you guys are starting to see, the Bt21 is appearing finally. I was able to help gearbest get set up to carry the light.

    Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-15.46 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

    NITEFIGHTER?BICYCLE LIGHT

    Update: For ease of finding the main information, I am changing this post to cover initial testing and impressions of the light (plenty of pics!!!)

    And time to start the review. DHL was kind and came on a holiday to bring me my light!

    First up the case. OMG THE CASE!!!! Quality is GREAT. Very solid, well built, TOP NOTCH. And for me, it feeds my need, MY NEED FOR ORANGE!!!





    All kinds of storage space, enough for second light and pack once you remove gigantic charger. ALso a mesh pouch for storing the small stuff (bands, velcro, whatever else you want to put in it, is got a ton of space too)

    Next up parts list:

    -Light head: Weight 93g (35ish above yinding for reference), Lumens Id say around 1200 on turbo is my "guess" maybe a bit more but optics make it difficult to judge.

    -Charger: 2000mA (yeap 2 amp charger) big solid charger with indicator, very nice.

    -Battery pack with pouch: Rubber housing around pack, not cheap thin stuff either. Pouch is dual strap long center velcro tabs to hold pack inside with proper eyelet hole for cable. Uses the nice thick magicshine (available at DX too) 20awg cable. IS true to Capacity (giving margin of error)

    -Extension cable, also 20awg MS/DX cable!

    -ACTUAL USABLE HELMET MOUNT. Has the rubber type foam on the back, uses 2 long velcro straps for easy use on vented helmets (very excited because sons helmet cant fit an adhesive gopro mount not can my commuting helmet)

    -rolled up velcro cable strap (yeap they thought of holding the cables to the frame too, got you covered)

    -And Finally, UNDERSTANDABLE and very clear instructions with charts .

    Nitefighter thought this one out heavily and I swear spent time reading these forums and learning what we all need. Too bad BT40S kits dont come with all these goodies too.



    And WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR. My "Lab tests" https://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/icons/icon14.png

    First up tear down:

    Single plate for emitters, can tell by looking at phosphor that these arent 3c, but honestly im kind of liking 4C, think my "winter lights" will be this tint.



    This part bummed me out, and DO NOT FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING, REMOVE THE SILICONE BUTTON.....Dont ask why I know that, but that shiny center ring around the silicone button is pressed in, holds the button, you arent getting that ring out or getting that button back in... but the driver mounting. 2 screws that sit being the emitters, have a layer of silicone to insulate driver from emitter board contact (if you get brave and try to remove driver which I advise against, make sure to put a new layer of silicone on). Remove the screws, driver doesnt move.....its siliconed in! but no reason to mess with it anyway. Youll see why below.



    Also, CAN FIT LEDDNA/GLOWWORM OPTICS, but requires different much thinner oring. Carclo seem to fit right in. OR unless you like to ride in heavy downpours, just take the orings out and put the LEDDNA optics in. they fit TIGHT into face plate so small light rain wont bother it.

    Why you can just not even open the light unless you want to change tint or optics:





    Ya thats only high not even turbo.

    Heres my video review:

    https://youtu.be/i7_BTWDrWug


    https://youtu.be/oeOBvVo7WnY

    You can find more in depth details of these tests starting on page 8 of this thread.

    Summary: LOVE THIS LIGHT, turbo gets HOT!!! but except for guys that really get some speed going, turbo is overkill anyway (heat causes it to not push maximum output for long). Everything it comes with OH YA, WORTH THE MONEY!!!

    No im not excited at all.
    Last edited by tigris99; 11-21-2015 at 01:20 AM.

  2. #2
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    I predict very bright future for this light

  3. #3
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    Very interested! Awaiting review (or at least in stock so I can order).

    -Garry

  4. #4
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    I wonder where they put the driver on this thing. Seems like a pretty small spot underneath the button, unless they take the circuit and split it in multiple parts. Or maybe it's using one of those round flashlight drivers.

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    So this price is good for 5 more days? Also I'm assuming this price is for the lighthead only?

  6. #6
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    Driver is probably FET based, square type with, possibly, 2 boards (but it can be done with one board only).

    Yes, the price is for light head only, can't expect a battery pack and a light for 15$

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    Worst case scenario is that the back side of led board is actually the driver and there's a minimal heat transfer path to those nice looking fins. We will find out soon enough.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Worst case scenario is that the back side of led board is actually the driver and there's a minimal heat transfer path to those nice looking fins.
    99% unlikely!

  9. #9
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    No im 99.999% sure it uses a flashlight style driver just Below the button or square as Sirius said.

    Price i have no clue on, its lighthead only obviously, but till Sunday night my time, I wont have any more info.

  10. #10
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    The gopro mount can be rotate to the correct orientation. They appear to be addition accessory added on top of the oring bar mount in the complete kit.

    Can be seen in this YouTube review. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PydDB_HI5mE

    Hope it help

  11. #11
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    But the GoPro mount is clearly made wrong for this lamp. If you rotate it 90° it will be off center. Might still work if the bottom of the BT21 is flat but will look weird.

    Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-image.jpg

    I asked Andy about the mount as pictured with the BT70 some time ago and he said they were aware of the problem and that it would be resolved when that lamp went into production.

  12. #12
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    Actually being off-center makes me happy, light will sit at more centralized position

    And they may have fixed it by now. We dont know yet.

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    Does this mean that the light head won't be hitting amazon like Andy was saying originally?

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    Tigris, if possible as an option I would prefer standard Magicshine like mount. I bet I'm not the only one ;-)

  15. #15
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    Ledoman, ill see what's up with that next week. Ive seen them both ways and they call the gorpro one and "adapter" so im hoping it comes with both.

    As for amazon, I can't tell you a single thing on that. I simply helped gearbest get them by getting them the info to who they needed to talk to, that was it. So I have NO IDEA but I can guess I would think they still do.

  16. #16
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    The instructions in the BT21 user manual call for attaching the lamp to the bars with one of the O-rings. Says under Features, GoPro Adapter Included. So it's just an extra, like the wide angle lense that comes with the complete BT40S package. Doubt it would be included with the solo lamp, as none of the other extras are; the plastic mount is standard. Listing on GB says lamp and nothing else.

    https://www.nitefighter.com/upload/f...ER_MANUAL..jpg

  17. #17
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    Was curious because it seems like they were supposed to arrive at Amazon about a week ago and no sign of them, plus no mention of it from Andy so I'm assuming whatever was going to end up there is going to hit GB first since it would make sense...

  18. #18
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    And read the details of the light on the site, gopro mount is supposed to be included. I'm gonna be peeved if its not lol. But for $15 can't complain too much hehe.

  19. #19
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    Well did some testing tonight, glad I ordered an adapter to mount my phone for video use, night time video is way better than my ion air. But can't go off road really, phone and adapter mount wont survive that for long lol.

    But it'll work for the time being till I can afford a better Sony or gopro.

  20. #20
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    Video linked above shows full bundle so it is understandable that the gopro mount is included. Now when I think about it, after GB gets the products in stock and updates products images it is more likely to me that the light head (not the bundle) will come with regular magicshine tipe mount only. And that's ok with me, I have just enough space for this light on my handlebar extender. :P

    @tigris99. Have you considered xiaomi yi? I don't have 100$ to burn right now but if I did, Yi would be my first & best choice.

  21. #21
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    Its out of stock with GB atm. GJHS recommended it as well. BUt in all honesty, I shouldnt be burning up extra cash beyond the bt21 (since Im going to have 2). Got too much other projects going on atm since cree has released new bin LEDs, just preordered a few for my lights. Hopefully going to be ready for the BT21 to get my specs installed right after initial review. If it needs it anyway....lol, might just end up changing optics and adding a remote.

    Actually that camera is completely out, only works with android devices nothing else. If I cant at least do everything by lugging it into my computers its just a paperweight,lol. Sad cause really looks like a great camera for the price

  22. #22
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    Thanks Tigris. Subscribed.

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    Would the fenix battery case be usable with it?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountainking7 View Post
    Would the fenix battery case be usable with it?
    Physically, probably yes, depending on connectors size (I have BT40S but not the Fenix case so I can't test if connectors fit properly) but you would really want to use 2S2P battery pack (2S3P for longer runs) with this light.
    BT40S is driven pretty OK and if we can judge by that, BT21 will not be underdriven, so even if you use 2 x quality Panasonic 3400mAh cells you would probably get only hour, hour and half at best running @ max.

    Fenix case is good for 1 x XM-L/2/XP-L and even better if you don't go beyond 600 lumens.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    Physically, probably yes, depending on connectors size (I have BT40S but not the Fenix case so I can't test if connectors fit properly) but you would really want to use 2S2P battery pack (2S3P for longer runs) with this light.

    BT40S is driven pretty OK and if we can judge by that, BT21 will not be underdriven, so even if you use 2 x quality Panasonic 3400mAh cells you would probably get only hour, hour and half at best running @ max.



    Fenix case is good for 1 x XM-L/2/XP-L and even better if you don't go beyond 600 lumens.

    Fenix case will only work with changing connector, but yes it'll Work (I have 2). No light works with the fenix case WITHOUT CHANGING CONNECTOR ON CASE. Well except the ne fenix light it was designed for.

    Nothing work with using it, I have my pumped up yinding running on a fenix case with keeppower Panasonic 3400s and plenty of run time so far. Ya if you going to be out for a long ride, if using a 2 cell case bring spare cells. But I your going to be out more than an hour I would expect you'd have a hydropack so then can just use a 4 cell.

  26. #26
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    Not only will you lose runtime with the 2 cell Fenix case, but your light won't stay at full output as long due to voltage sag. If your dead set on running 2 cells and want max output as long as possible, then I suggest using cells with less voltage drop (usually sold as "high drain") or run 4.35v cells (which then require a 4.35v charger).

    -Garry

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    Oh I see. Thanks for all this information guys. Will work but needs an adapter and less runtimes it seems. It's a trade off I don't mind.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Its out of stock with GB atm. GJHS recommended it as well. BUt in all honesty, I shouldnt be burning up extra cash beyond the bt21 (since Im going to have 2). Got too much other projects going on atm since cree has released new bin LEDs, just preordered a few for my lights. Hopefully going to be ready for the BT21 to get my specs installed right after initial review. If it needs it anyway....lol, might just end up changing optics and adding a remote.

    Actually that camera is completely out, only works with android devices nothing else. If I cant at least do everything by lugging it into my computers its just a paperweight,lol. Sad cause really looks like a great camera for the price
    Xiaomi just released an IOS app in the iTunes Store and the white Yi is in stock. You didn't want the green one?
    Original XiaoMi Yi 1080P Ambarella A7LS WIFI Sports Action Camera-73.79 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

  29. #29
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    If you didn't yet get the MI, you would want to make sure you don't mind it not having image stabilisation.....

  30. #30
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    None of them have image stabilization.

  31. #31
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    Its not ios either... I use windows 8.... Android/google security is a sorry excuse of a bad joke (had my google account hacked and card account wiped out twice in a year cause if it.) and trying not to go to the dark side of apple proprietary crap.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJHS View Post
    None of them have image stabilization.
    The SJCAM does come with image stabilisation but the 60FPS mode is basically crap...

  33. #33
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    Now you all got me curious, I ran 2 cell last night and it seemed to work fine with the yinding, in fact after 2 hours on medium the indicator was still green so I am assuming very little voltage sag...and this was with protected ncr18650b's which are not the best for high drain applications

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    I just had to place an order for one, anticipating a jump in price once the first batch sells out and people realize the potential it has. Even at twice the price it should still be a bargain

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    Looks like prolly need extension cable to connect to battery pack. Any one know if the cable they sell at gearbest is any good?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Any one know if the cable they sell at gearbest is any good?
    Do you have a link?

  37. #37
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    Check out the fenix case thread, garry linked the best cable available and in stock in states or china DX warehouse. The GB cable is same as stock 22awg cables for most lights, dx cable is the magicshine cable 20awg for 1/3 the price.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Check out the fenix case thread, garry linked the best cable available and in stock in states or china DX warehouse. The GB cable is same as stock 22awg cables for most lights, dx cable is the magicshine cable 20awg for 1/3 the price.
    Here is the GB one.
    http://m.gearbest.com/diy-parts-and-...pp_139173.html

    But I guess if it's free shipping it won't matter where I buy it from

  39. #39
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    The one from dx is better. Bigger internal wire, thicker casing. Same as the magicshine ones which is what everybody (including me now) swear by.

  40. #40
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    Well someone should order that one from GB and see if it is the same cable. If I end up with a GB order soon I'll throw one or two in.

    -Garry

  41. #41
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    Its not the same, I got 2 in my last order its literally like they cut them in half to wire to the batteries and light heads for the yindings lol.

  42. #42
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    Ah, ok. Thanks for the heads up.

    -Garry

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    Any links to the dx wires? What would be the problem to use the GB wires?

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    Woa price just went up to $56.99. Guess I'm not getting one

  45. #45
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    What was the previous price?

  46. #46
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    Dx wires: Cheap 5.4mm Male to Female Extension Cable for SKU 29489/30864 (100cm)

    Thinner wires will cause more voltage drop meaning you won't get max brightness, or at least not for as long.

    -Garry

  47. #47
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    Ok first thing, I DID POST PRICE WAS WRONG ON THESE lol. So dont say I didn't warn you guys.



    As of this moment they are "out of stock" so no more orders accidently go through.



    BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND, it was an error on the person that listed it in the site, both prices. Not me or our rep. Working in it as fast as possible, sorry for frustrations if this causes any (and ill be the first one dealing with it cause I ordered 2 bt21s lol)

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Woa price just went up to $56.99. Guess I'm not getting one
    Huh, where are you seeing that? Still $15.46 when I look:

    Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-15.46 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

    Edit: Well now it say says Promo ends in 00:00:00; when I checked before still said like three or four days.

    Will GearBest be issuing refunds?

  49. #49
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    Says 63.48 for me lol, freaky!

  50. #50
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    Update:



    Ok gopro adapter is INCLUDED, its optional part as far as known, so both mounts should be in the box.





    Next, omg we ARE REALLY SORRY, but they can't honor that price, its actually a loss for them before they even include shipping for free. So all orders are being cancelled/refunded.



    Details to follow later tonight.

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    Figured it was too good to be true so I'm not upset. Awaiting real price and provided it's not 60 bucks I'm still in for one

  52. #52
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    Wont be lol, no worries.

  53. #53
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    Ok guys that is the KIT PRICE, not just the head. Working in just head too but imo kit is pretty good being the batteries.

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    Well listing is still screwed up because continues to say Power Supply... Excluded.

    tigris did you find out whether NiteFighter fixed the GoPro alignment issue on this or are they just including the "wrong" one?

    Anyway still Out of Stock.

    BTW this package wholesales for $40. BT40S package for $38 and the ever so elusive BT70 supposedly $64.

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    If it includes the BAK 5200mah pack then it'll be a nice setup for the money for those looking to get into night riding with minimal investment

  56. #56
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    Ok, next up:

    Confirmation, head only is coming. So dont be scared by the $60 price tag. I do wonder if the person putting it on the site is new lol.

    Also I will make sure they correct the listing both ways so it shows correctly.

  57. #57
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    Well now they've taken down the kit price and it's back at $15.46, Promo clock has been restarted from the top.

  58. #58
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    They are all goofed up, thnx for the update ill talk to nefertari let her know.

    Just dont try to order right now till I know what's going on. They may be all messed up over there. Someone is getting head, kit and lord knows what else confused. Just bare with me.

  59. #59
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    We're with you Tigris

  60. #60
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    What a mess. I guess there will be plenty of unhappy people, they must have gotten dozens if not 100+ orders...

  61. #61
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    They had 30 lights sold, and I had just ordered 2 when she realized things were goofed up.

    No body should complain much, I did try to tell everyone that there was no way. But right now trying to sort it out, nefertari is awesome and definitely got her matters in order, just getting the rest to fall in line. Happy she's who we deal with, she doesn't mess around.

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    What exactly was wrong?

  63. #63
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    Price error on website, big error. Feel bad but nothing me or nefertari even knew about till it was too late.

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    I was contemplating ordering one, but had just ordered another 18$ KD10, and I was suspicious of the price.
    Says no battery at 63$... if its decent quality it may well be worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Price error on website, big error. Feel bad but nothing me or nefertari even knew about till it was too late.
    You mean the $15.46 is the wrong price? I still see it advertised at this price...

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    Link to it says $15.46 but when you click on it, new page says $56.66.

    Also still says Power Supply... Not included/(excluded) and Out of Stock.

    Got a refund from PayPal. Message from GearBest said Hot Selling Item ran out of stock.

    Feh.

  67. #67
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    their fixing it, but wont be available for order till its all fixed. Sorry for the mess guys we got it under control, just slowly lol.

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    Looks like a good 'deal' missed Can't complain though if it was a genuine mistake ;-)

  69. #69
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    It was, someone seriously messed up in a hurry before Chinese holiday started.

    Heres the correct page, they are fixing the site now so it works correctly:

    Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-63.48 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

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    Out of budget for a budget light Hopefully the head only is in the $15-20 range...

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    Still says Out of Stock.

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    Will light head only be available?

    $63 seems reasonable given this light is one level above a budget light. I wonder if they could give us a coupon to bring it closer to $50?

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    If $63 is including 4 batteries, yes, it is reasonable. Else, its a bit pricey as a fenix can be had for $70...

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    They are decent BAK batteries as well.

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    As I said previously, the listing is strictly there because GearBest's system requires a listing before they can stock the item, so it's not there to sell its there to allow them to order and stock it.

    Price-wise Netefari should be able able to give a ballpark figure, in all my builds Dora and May could give me the price within a few bucks. Usually the price was a few bucks higher than what the selling price was. Also don't worry about the "initial" price going up, once they set the price with coupon (they love coupons) that price should stay constant for a while and Tigris will quickly have one to review before anyone.

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    They did give me 300 points for the inconvenience, however it cancelled out the points I already used for the order...not that they were much.

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    Ya lighthead will be available soonish. Not sure time frame there yet.

    Also, found out another problem....nitefighter isn't wanting to make anymore gopro mount adapters. The bt21s wont be coming with them anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Also, found out another problem....nitefighter isn't wanting to make anymore gopro mount adapters. The bt21s wont be coming with them anymore.
    I wonder why not? That kind of set them apart and was a nice touch (assuming they are done right).

    -Garry

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    Nitefighter put the lighthead up on ebay. Buy it now for $32.95(free shipping) or there is 1 auction ending Friday night.
    Nitefighter BT21 Bright LED Front Bicycle Light Light Head Only with O Rings | eBay

    I really want to try this light but since I already have 2 KD2 that I changed to the Neutral White emitters and I'm not sure I like the 5 mode switch I think I'll pass on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    I really want to try this light but since I already have 2 KD2 that I changed to the Neutral White emitters and I'm not sure I like the 5 mode switch I think I'll pass on this one.
    Yes. 4 brightness levels are too much in my opinion. And one other thing I don't understand is this. It says that a double click starts the strobe mode (click twice in 1,5 sek). Does this mean that you can't switch between more than two modes faster than 1,5 sek? If so, it is really stupid.

    (why can't they just let the strobe mode die and be forgotten)

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    The Chinese let strobe mode die? HA! HA! HA! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

    Seriously though, they should have made strobe access a double click from OFF only. Hmm . . . then I guess some road riders would be irritated that they can't go quick to strobe to alert other vehicles.

    -Garry

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    ^or they could just do what I do and run one light on one side of the bars strobe, then another light on the other continuous. Also make sure to throw in a 3rd xm-l based light on strobe on the bottom of the seat like I do...maximum offense mode

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    "Let the strobe mode die"!
    LOL, not a chance strobe mode is in chinese culture sign for happiness, billions of chinese all over the world would be disappointed is strobe was removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    The Chinese let strobe mode die? HA! HA! HA! That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

    Seriously though, they should have made strobe access a double click from OFF only. Hmm . . . then I guess some road riders would be irritated that they can't go quick to strobe to alert other vehicles.

    -Garry
    As a road rider I would love to see a 2 mode light. High beam and low beam. Same way as in my car. "They" should get on doing that instead of putting in stupid strobe modes.

  85. #85
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    The bt40 strobe is hidden, im assuming this one is set up the exact same way being power levels are set the same. And its actually not that easy to get strobe, I can change levels as fast as I want on bt40. I'll check tonight since we can expect bt21 to be about the same.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    The bt40 strobe is hidden
    I was not aware that BT40S has a strobe, how do you activate it?

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    Well the Nitefighter BT40S has no Strobe, the BT21 is Double Click.

    Most Strobe modes in MTB lamps are useless for commuters to "be seen" because they tend to blind oncoming traffic. At least the KD XM-L2 + 12 SMD "angel eye" model is not too bad with just the glow rings pulsating, but the center XM-L2 on Strobe is way over the top. Muh wah ha ha.

    Last edited by andychrist; 05-04-2015 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Correct misinformation

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    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Well the Nitefighter BT40S is Long Press for Strobe
    I have two of them and long press on both is power off, that's it, holding any button any longer will not do anything!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    I have two of them and long press on both is power off, that's it, holding any button any longer will not do anything!
    Oops, you're right, BT40S doesn't have Strobe, Long Press is Off. Had it confused with my 872 clone. But BT21 Strobe IS double-click, according to the user manual.

    Incidentally, most MagicShine lamps don't have Strobe. Funny but a lot of reviewers complain about this, although MS does not indicate anywhere that those lamps include that mode.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    I wonder why not? That kind of set them apart and was a nice touch (assuming they are done right).





    -Garry


    I have no idea and their doing the "we want huge commitment" bs. Can't believe Vancbiker is the only entity smart enough to market them for the masses lol.

    I dont know why ppl complain about having strobe. The lights are marketed for all cyclists so imo ppl need to deal with it, its not hurting anything lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I have no idea and their doing the "we want huge commitment" bs. Can't believe Vancbiker is the only entity smart enough to market them for the masses lol.
    My guess is that the percentage of buyers that want GoPro compatibility is pretty small. They want to sell lights by the thousands and only a few dozen of those would order a GoPro option.

    For a small time retired guy like me, it's OK beer/tooling/bike part money, but no one's gonna get rich on GoPro light adapters.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    So as of right now, I see two listing:

    The full kit WITH battery and charger for $76.99
    Listed as "Out of Stock" so you can't order it.
    Package Contents: 1 x Nitefighter BT21 MTB Light, 1 x 7.4V 5.2Ah BAK Battery Pack, 1 x 8.4V 2A Charger, 3 x O-ring, 1 x Headband, 1 x Bandage, 1 x Extending Line, 1 x English Manual

    Light Head & Accessories WITHOUT the battery and charger for $36.83
    Can be added to your cart - with Promo prince ending in a little over six days.
    Package Contents: 1 x Nitefighter BT21 MTB Light, 3 x O-ring, 1 x Headband, 1 x Bandage, 1 x Extending Line, 1 x Pouch, 1 x English Manual

    Based on our history with GearBest, I suspect there will be a coupon code to bring the price down a bit further. That will probably put the set without the battery a few dollars over the Yinding light head only option.

    Considering NiteFighter BT-21 includes O-Rings, Head Band, Pouch, Extension Cable, and Bandage, that would still be a pretty good deal. I'm guessing the "Pouch" is the battery pouch. I'm also making an educated assumption that the "Bandage" is a piece of double sided Velcro (which is probably used to attach the light head mount part of the head band to the helmet - though possibly "Head Band" means the helmet mount and "Bandage" means Velcro for securing the cable.)

    Maybe when we get this all straightened out, we can get them to correct the parts list to make it less ambiguous.

    Since people are grumbling about their first attempt at a Go-Pro adapter, I doubt NiteFighter wants to swallow the cost getting new ones made, that correct their previous error. Hence the classic "minimum order to cover our retooling costs" stance.

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    IF this can be made in the $30-32 ballpark and after the review, it might be a good backup/2nd light for the 'omgzor' effect while riding

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    Just be patient young ones, all good things come in time :-p

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Just be patient young ones, all good things come in time :-p
    You don't have to tell me

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    Lol. Ya you know what im dealing with atm.

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    Anybody find this weird or its only me?

    Nitefighter BT40S:
    Utilizes four Cree XP-G2 neutral white LEDs, max 1600lumens output

    Nitefighter BT21
    Utilizes two Cree XM-L2 neutral white LEDs, max 1800 lumens output

    Fenix BC30 advertises 1200 lumens and 1800 lumens on BOOST....

    I feel like the BT21 is being overly optimistic on its specs....

  98. #98
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    Xp-g2 put out less lumens than xm-l2, but uses 4.

    Bt21 and bc30 both use same emitters, xm-l2.

    Fenix is being overly optimistic just light nitefighter. They are basing it on simple calculation (at least nitefighter and fenix dont go crazy saying 4000lumens like other Chinese companies). Based on rated current (amps) vs emitter specs they rate it at 900lumens per emitter. This means they claim driver is pushing emitters at 2.4amps roughly (bin and such can bring that number lower but well use that for this).

    Yinding is specced at 2.5 amps.

    These figured do not include:

    Losses due to optics
    Inefficiencies in driver
    Voltage sage due to resistances from battery pack and wire feeding the light.

    Is 900 lumens possible per xm-l2 u2 emitter, easily. But you loose around 15-20% at the optics alone.

    Specced, ya easily true, actual ouput, hell no. But have a fenix ran through a sphere test, you'll find its not 1800. But probably closer than the bt21 or any others optimistic rating.

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    Judging from the specs listed on the fenix, I would have to disagree that on all the modes besides possibly burst (as no runtime is listed) that it would be closer. Basically on the mode listed as "high" it is rated at 1200 lumens, on burst it is listed as 1800, so one would assume that high is 75% of max. So I take the 1 hour 50 minutes runtime with 2600mah on high, and deduct another 25% which leaves me 82.5 mins, or 1 hour, 22 mins and 30 seconds.

    The nitefighter has a 5200 mah battery pack so it's easy to translate this. Since it is exactly double the capacity, and the rated runtime on turbo is 2 hours, one can safely assume that it is being driven harder than the fenix, which would run for 2 hours, 45 mins with the same capacity battery



    Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-uploadfromtaptalk1430829126940.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-uploadfromtaptalk1430829101459.jpg  


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    Just for more accurate calculations. 5200mAh pack assumes 2600 cells which depends on quality deliver different runtimes at different currents. So there is no linear calculation. Sanyo 2600 for example would give you somewhere between 2400 and 2500 mAh in reality. See this comparator: Battery test-review 18650 comparator To bad there is no BAK cells tested unless someone would send them to HKJ.

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    Yes, this is true. Regardless of a 5 or 10% possible discrepancy it should still be pulling a good bit more current though. Assuming the bt21 lists runtime based on the theoretical capacity that would put turbo mode around 2.6amps

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    Also worth noting, KIR tested the yinding at 1,7 to 2 amps on high based on voltage so on the bt21 on high will be more like medium on the yinding, turbo should be a modest increase over the yinding high

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    I'm curious about how bright the button light is. Since your head is over the handlebar, this light may shine directly into your eyes. It could be extremely distracting.

  104. #104
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    no worries ill cover all this once it gets here. My personal aim for it is helmet light but well see. I have bt40 for bars (and mj880 clone, xx x3, kd 2, 2 yindings)

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    I am still curious as to what the leds are mounted as the button appears to be ahead of where the leds mount. Also there must be a gap between the leds to allow access to the driver as there is no access from the rear.

    It looks like they should be mounted to the case.

  106. #106
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    Easy explaination well for emitters anyway. More I look at pictures (mine will hopefully be here in a few days) I think its basically a flashlight driver stuffed in there behind the emitter board. Which really what's a flashlight driver vs these other drivers, not a dang thing besides they are round and 2 separate boards stacked in some cases. But knos its hard to see depending on pic, but button is behind leds, leds are on optics not reflectors so leds will sit very shallow in the head.

    SIRIUS. Post that pic you made showing how leds are sitting inside the case.

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    So do you think the driver's board runs perpendicular to the back of the emitters'?

  108. #108
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    I'm thinking so, maybe like Sirius said. Its hard to say being no rear access face plate screws are centered.



    I'm just as anxious as all of you lol just just waiting for them to put in stock so I can "order" my sample.



    Looking at pics, optics appear that they will give similar beam pattern to yinding/kd 2 stock. BUT REMEMBER, optics can be changed in 2 minutes time. And gearbest is going to be stocking optics soon.

    Oh @ Andy, look at kit page, clear cache on your browser cause it shows that pack included, bak cells.

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    Sorry tigris but I was talking about GearBest's listing for the BT40S, where it STILL says "Powered by four BAK 18650 rechargeable Li-on batteries, 7.4V 5200mAh( not included )" in the main text. You have to get all the way to the bottom of the copy to see Package Contents with everything in it. I can imagine a lot of viewers simply seeing "( not included ") and reading no further, knowing the price. Or even if they continued, still come away not willing to risk the purchase— unless maybe they also saw my question and GB's answer below that.

    Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-image.jpg

    Other thing that's confusing in listing for BT21, says:

    "4 color and 5 modes LED indicator displays remaining battery capacity, tell you when to replace batteries"

    This kinda gives the impression that batteries are either disposable or integrated with the lamp head somehow. Think the word GB was groping for was "recharge" rather than "replace." Eh.

  110. #110
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    Andy, do me a favor, cause im busy as hell atm. Take all these (including the bandage thing) put in a list with which light they each apply to and on me with it please. That way I can email it to them to correct all of it.

    Appreciate you catching all this.

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    Well this may be interesting. I will try to measure draw on the yinding myself in the next day but everyone's runtime and kir's testing lead me to believe that they are right around 2 amps. Nitefighter rates the bt40 as 3 hours on supplied battery pack but garry tested at 2,14a which means it'll be a bit shy of rated runtime, looks like they rounded all the numbers up. Anyway the bt21 is rated at 2 hours on the same pack, so it must draw significantly more. Am thinking this is going to definitely be much brighter than the yinding, it looks as if it's indeed 600mah more current being consumed

  112. #112
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    I learned the ratings mean total crap. Im betting we can get proper runtime, but like all but the best companies, cells are not full balance charged together, the dropped to storage level, then assembled in packs.

    Yinding got more proper information listed thanks to GHJS' hard work trying to get everything as right as possible. Here we're at the mercy of the product pics/add (though once tested I may be able to get them to update).

    Remember GJHS put countless hours into the yinding over a couple months.

    But well know soon enough, tonight when I get home I plan on doing a bit of work to my testing set up so I can get more in depth info (and be able to do some video and pics that are not on a messy work bench)

  113. #113
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    I tested the yinding tonight and a few others for amp draw. For reference I used my Gemini Olympia and action leds listed amp draw, and also a magicshine mj808. The conclusion that I got was that my meter reads right around. 07 to. 1 amp low or it could be resistance in the chain. Power was provided by the nitefighter BAK pack fully charged. Here is the yinding on high

    The KD2 and the mj880 clone are both about. 1 amps behind it at 1.7x

    I know there are no hard and fast rules in place for the manufacturers ratings, but I also know that it's not often they will short change the runtime. I really, really think that we will find that this pulls about ~500mah more on turbo than the stock YD. The question is how well the heat will dissipate

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    Manbeer, try making up some thicker gauge leads that are fairly short. This is key in the flashlight world. I use a set I made out of 12ga wire. Attached Radio Shack banana plugs on one end and just "tinned" the other ends with solder. If your stock leads are pretty good you may not see a huge jump. If your stock leads are junk you will see a significant jump.

    I have a post over at BLF showing my original and later revised setup for testing amp draw of bike lights. Really handy setups. Here it is: Contraption to Measure Current Pulled from Bike Light Battery Packs - REVISED - See Post #12 | BudgetLightForum.com

    -Garry

  115. #115
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    So nitefighter is being a bit slow
    ... Hopefully have mine by the weekend.

  116. #116
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    Garry, took a minute to check you link, I like that idea, easier to deal with and adjust things, and those connectors are easy to find. Thnx for that. Make my testing set up project alot easier.

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    Damn. Very slow....

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    Any word on when they expect these bad boys in stock?

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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    Any word on when they expect these bad boys in stock?
    I got mine today which i ordered through ebay. Dispatched last Thursday and it arrived yesterday (Tuesday)! That has got to be a record. Very nice looking light! At last superficially it looks to be of the same build quality as the BT40s (which I also have). I haven't plugged it in to test it yet. These nitefighter lights are clearly one or two steps above the cheapo chinese lights we've come to love (and own too many of!). At least on a par with magicshine (although I have never owned a magicshine).

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    Damn it, I'm jealous right now. Let me know once you get to try it out... I need to live vicariously through you for now

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    Got a yinding to compare to?

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    Tigris99, you get your sample for review yet?

    SlSto, you realize you are obligated to do a full tear down and review now, right?


    -Garry

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Tigris99, you get your sample for review yet?

    SlSto, you realize you are obligated to do a full tear down and review now, right?


    -Garry
    Oh dear - me and tear down i can just about open can of drink!

  124. #124
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    No garry not even shipped.yet....

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    Still waiting for a tear-down report on build quality and heat sinking before I decide whether it's an improvement on my 2 upgraded Yindings.

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    If this truly draws 2.6 amps then it may not be well suited to a 2 cell pack, as my Fenix on ncr18650b is dropping from 8.40 to 6.85v on a 2.1 amp load

  127. #127
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    Nothing out of the ordinary there



    http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11772



    Correct me if I wrong, but cells (2 vs 4 cells 8.4v pack) will not change that voltage drop under load. A second pair parallel simply doubles the time it takes for the cells to discharge. Thus prolonging discharge curve.



    I have ran my 2.4-2.5A actual (not calculated) in my fenix with keeppower ncr18650b and no issues. Same with my mj880 clone than I have running at 2.9-3.0A. I have less run time at 3A vs 2.5A but on a fresh charge 2 vs 4 cell pack there is no difference visually between either light visually and measured light the little variation can be in my ghetto set up since I dont have a sphere and use my phone app.

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    Last night I ran a test using about 8 different battery setups on my Olympia which is rated for a 2.12 amp draw at 8.4 v and found that the 2 cell suffered significantly more than the 4 and 6 cell packs. There was almost a full volt variance actually between the 2 cells and 4 cells using the same cells. The difference between 4 and 6 cell was much smaller, presumably because I wasn't really drawing enough current for it to matter

  129. #129
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    This is where Archie and vanc need to jump in, im still working on wrapping my head around it but understanding I have thus far is this:



    Driver style and emitter count play a huge role in this. 2.1A on 3 emitters is different than 2.1A on 2 emitters. 2.1A on 3 emitters is either grossly under driven or more likely series circuit for emitters. Which means driver has to boost voltage right away.



    There is alot more to it than just voltage drop vs current draw. 2 cells run a yinding just fine but same cells on a bt40 or ssx3 is a whole different thing. More emitters require more power to run so going to pull harder on the packs.



    And the whole "watts" thing im working on understanding but starting to see why running comparisons need calculations done using watts. Like emitters are rated with lumens per watt.

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    Yeah its difficult to understand exactly what is causing what. It appears that the setups that are series wired are the ones most susceptible to this though. Fwiw i know that the voltage indicator is in no way a accurate way of determining the state of the battery but I can use a light drawing say, 2.1 amps that has 2 emitters and it'll remain green, but on 3 and 4 emitter lights it will go straight to blinking red. It also appears that all the drivers are boosting accordingly and drawing more amperage as the volts drop so I doubt that the output would be affected much either way until the voltage really drops low. I'm curious if this nitefighter has a low voltage protection on the light head itself and what it is set to. If it does, a decent alternative may be to use 4.35v cells or high drain cells instead of my protected ncr18650b

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Correct me if I wrong, but cells (2 vs 4 cells 8.4v pack) will not change that voltage drop under load. A second pair parallel simply doubles the time it takes for the cells to discharge. Thus prolonging discharge curve.
    You are wrong. Forget for a moment we have cells in series. It is not important for our case, we need to look just cells in parallel.
    Compare voltage curves at 1A and 2A. This is same as running 2 cells in parallel and 1 single cell at same load. In parallel setup load is shared and voltage drop is smaller.

    If battery pack is under 2A load and we have single cell it is (obviously) under 2A load. If we use 2 cells in parallel then each cell has load of 1A and thus lover voltage drop. I hope you got it.

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    Ledoman, does that mean that if it is a higher power lamp, it would be preferable to use a pack with say 6x2200 mah cells that 4x3400s, correct? That may be the reason that gloworm uses a 6 cell pack to make the same capacity in the Xs, vs the 4 cell in others

    Edit, I read the comparison chart wrong. The mj880 came with the 6 cell, not the gloworm

    Either way, for higher power lights more cells trumps trumps higher capacity cells, correct?

  133. #133
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    More cells you put in parallel more mAh you get and load is shared to the more cells. So you put less stress (load) to each cell which results in smaller voltage drop (hence higher voltage curve).

    Higher voltage is important only in some cases. For example if you have higher resistance in wires, connectors, drivers resulting in bigger voltage drop then you very quickly run into situation when voltage drops below leds Vf and led starts dimming or you prematurely get red status light. There are other situation too. Regulated drivers and many leds, etc....

    manbeer, yes for more powerful lights tipicaly more cells in parallel is better. You get more mAh and less voltage drop. A rule of tumb would be 1 pair of cells (in series) for one XM-L led. This would give you high output and long enough run time.
    So for 2 leds 2S2P pack is optimum by my opinion. Of course I'm counting on cells with 2600mAh and more.

  134. #134
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    Well there I learned something new today, didn't know load was shared in that sense. Thnx ledoman. Guess I should probably build 6 cell packs (once I find good low resistance protection circuits).

  135. #135
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    The xeccon 7800mah packs seem good for the price. Think it's like 45 bucks and the pouch is amazing. Shipping is a bit pricey but it's flat rate so it makes sense to order a couple

  136. #136
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    Batteries have an internal resistance so drop some voltage when under load. The bigger the load the bigger the drop. Thats why your low battery indicator goes to red when on high but is still green on low.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Batteries have an internal resistance so drop some voltage when under load. The bigger the load the bigger the drop. Thats why your low battery indicator goes to red when on high but is still green on low.

    This part I knew lol.

    Im just seriously deciding if 6cell pack is worth the hassle beyond use on my ssx3 and bt40. Bt40 would be a big help if your running high/turbo all the time. Ssx3 same thing, at least for me and my gotta crank the driver up obsession.

    But because of all this discussion (which somehow managing to stay half on topic lol) I ordered new toy for the testing set up, digital volt ampere readout (like what ledoman has). Will be mounted in with my air flow generator so I can do all at once.

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    Hi, received BT21 from ebay auction listing in the last couple of days. Did anyone else's come with frosted lenses?
    As it happens the front bolts on mine look like they've lost their hex shaping in over-tightening during construction, the recess looks round rather than angular.
    Is everyone else's in perfect condition?
    I've just posted on the BT40S review thread that I'd tested current draw and wattage on the BT40s and BT21.
    The BT21 looks like it pulls 2.4A-2.5A and is around 20w in the process (on highest mode).

  139. #139
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    No body has theirs yet for the group buy, just the couple that ordered off the eBay auction.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    SIRIUS. Post that pic you made showing how leds are sitting inside the case.
    Sorry tigris, I had load of work this week and so little time to hang here with you guys

    So here is that pic and how I think this light is designed, heat from emitters is going straight to cooling fins. Driver is under the button, it probably is small place but it is doable with 2 board setup


  141. #141
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    dmc71 - I recently received mine. My also has frosted lenses. They look like carclo lenses. My hex bolts look rounded but I have put a 2.5mm hex key in and definitely feel an edge and a fit! I haven't tried loosening the bolt though as I am not known for having the best manual dexterity and would probably end up damaging something anyway!

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlSto View Post
    dmc71 - I recently received mine. My also has frosted lenses. They look like carclo lenses. My hex bolts look rounded but I have put a 2.5mm hex key in and definitely feel an edge and a fit! I haven't tried loosening the bolt though as I am not known for having the best manual dexterity and would probably end up damaging something anyway!
    Crap. I just ordered one last week. I really don't want frosted lenses but it does depend on the degree of frosting I suppose. As long as the frosting doesn't kill the throw it should be okay but if not perhaps other more clearer lenses can be bought. I want mine for helmet duty.

    If any one can provide a ( real ) photo of the front of the lamp that would be great.

  143. #143
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    Here are a couple of photos taken with my phone:
    Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-20150517_115030-1.jpgNitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-20150517_114933.jpg

  144. #144
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    I'll bet the leddna/glowworm optics will work just fine. Hopefully GB starts stocking them soon.

  145. #145
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    Okay, the photo helps. These optics look like the standard Gloworm flood optics. I wouldn't call them "frosted" but rather "clouded". Regardless I'm going to expect a beam pattern with limited throw. I do have optics I could play around with, namely the optics in the KD2 duo-clone and my Gloworms. If someone knows the size perhaps I could order some in advance and have them ready if needed.

  146. #146
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    Anyone here who already got their hands on the BT21 managed to get off the face plate? Curious because this lamp seems like an even better host for my DIY reflecting shield, due to the wider area in front and possibly better thermal management. Think it might be possible to hide most of the lower sandwiched material behind the plate on the BT21 whereas the Yinding is kinda skimpy there so most of the anchoring sheet metal has to stick out in an unsightly mess. Also hoping the separation between lenses means I could cut two separate holes rather than a single oval, so there would be a mullion down the middle for extra support.

    Tear down eagerly anticipated!

  147. #147
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    I am interesd in knowing if there is flicker visible when on the lower modes.
    With the KD driver, in rain or snow there's a strobe effect. (Called PWM flicker)

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    I am interesd in knowing if there is flicker visible when on the lower modes.

    With the KD driver, in rain or snow there's a strobe effect. (Called PWM flicker)

    Im yet to have a light that doesn't. Just some r worse than others

  149. #149
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    It it is like BT40S (they could basically use the same electronic just shaped to fit different housing) it will be VERY hard to notice any PWM. Personally, I don't see any flickering on BT40S in any mode, but then, I am not sensitive to PWM if it's not extremely pronounced.

  150. #150
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    My magicshine mj816 used to be so bad it made my front tire look like it was rolling backwards

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    My magicshine mj816 used to be so bad it made my front tire look like it was rolling backwards
    trippy

  152. #152
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    Im not sensitive to it but I notice it on my test set up. Some bad, some not. Bad ones make the fans look like their going backward.

    But out riding, ive been out in high humidity and light fog, no issues visually, but my lights also sit centered (extension to put light ahead of bars and centered) which blocks most of tire view.

  153. #153
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    Hello all.

    First, thanks to everyone who developed this thread for the great info. You guys are a true benefit to night riders everywhere!

    I'm very interested in one or two of these lights but I'm no expert (my last light was a 1995 Nightsun) and am a bit confused on the light.

    On the Gearbest site, at this link: Nitefighter BT21 1800LM Cree XM L2 2 LEDs Water-resistant Mountain Bike Lights-67.90 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com, I see the light for $67.90. The picture shows no mount (did I read that it actually comes with a gopro style mount?) but the description says it mounts to bars with an o-ring. The description also says it comes with batteries and a charger.

    On that same page, is the same light for $40.76. It looks like the only difference is that it doesn't come with the battery or charger.

    Is this the deal you guys are putting together or is it lower than those prices?

    Also, that BT40S for $32.72 looks like an amazing deal. Is that what some of you are running now?

    TIA

  154. #154
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    Kevin,
    I am not sure if they are posted somewhere but if not, one of us can send you the codes to order at group buy pricing. The one caveat is that you may only use one code once per order so you need to place multiple orders to get multiple pieces. The shipping is free though so it's not really a bit deal. The pricing will drop a bit once the proper codes are applied

    And the 67 dollar one is the full kit, the other less expensive option was just for the light head. If you are getting back into night riding the complete sets come with good batteries and chargers and all you will need to get going. I recommend a bt40s for the bars and bt21 for helmet use

  155. #155
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    Rock stars! Thanks a ton!

  156. #156
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    Be advised, bt21s are just coming into stock this week, so first orders wont be shipping out till end of week.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Im yet to have a light that doesn't. Just some r worse than others
    No visible flicker on the lights I built with l-flex or Mobydrv drivers. Worse on KD drivers.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post

    And the 67 dollar one is the full kit, the other less expensive option was just for the light head. If you are getting back into night riding the complete sets come with good batteries and chargers and all you will need to get going. I recommend a bt40s for the bars and bt21 for helmet use
    Do you have codes for the BT40S kits as well? Looks like those are currently in stock.

    I'm curious as to why you guys are going for the BT21 for helmets. Why not BT40S for both? Again, I'm not an expert so I can't read the descriptions and determine the advantages of the BT21 vs. BT40S

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    I'm curious as to why you guys are going for the BT21 for helmets. Why not BT40S for both? Again, I'm not an expert so I can't read the descriptions and determine the advantages of the BT21 vs. BT40S
    BT40S has a wide beam, so great on the bars. BT21 haven't heard the report on yet, probably more narrow. But if not, should be a cinch to swap out optics with a pair of 15° TIR lenses for under two bucks. Is also lighter in weight, big plus for helmet mounting. Not that the BT40S is heavy though — love that lamp!

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    No visible flicker on the lights I built with l-flex or Mobydrv drivers. Worse on KD drivers.



    Those are custom drivers though, I have no lights using those, all Chinese lights I own are pwm.



    @ Kevin



    Bt40s may or may not be in stock right this minute. And take a couple days to process order so realm doesn't matter which light you order wont ship till towards end of the week.

    Also if you want the codes, post in the group buy thread and well you all the coupon codes.

  161. #161
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    posted, thanks! Didn't even see that other thread. Just saw this one and didn't realize there was one specific to the group buy. Thanks again.

  162. #162
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    Slightly off topic but just to mention: only way to avoid PWM completely is to use current controlled driver and I think L-Flex is just that (not a cheap driver), Moby Drv is PWM driver but the PWM frequency is set quite high so the noticeable blinking is significantly reduced. I have a few DrJones (Mobydrv...) drivers and they are one of my favorites (I am keeping them for special occasions ) and they can be easily "upgraded" simply by adding current control chips...

    P.S. tigris, there is something wrong with your keyboard, every time you hit the "Enter" key it makes, like, 3 times the normal space!!!

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Those are custom drivers though, I have no lights using those, all Chinese lights I own are pwm.
    The same here. But I rarely use modes other than max, so it isn't problem for me.

    Funny enough, the main frequency is very different among Chinese lights, and often cheap light uses high-frequency PWM with no remarkable flicker, while more expensive ones are almost blinking...

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    Slightly off topic but just to mention: only way to avoid PWM completely is to use current controlled driver and I think L-Flex is just that (not a cheap driver), Moby Drv is PWM driver but the PWM frequency is set quite high so the noticeable blinking is significantly reduced. I have a few DrJones (Mobydrv...) drivers and they are one of my favorites (I am keeping them for special occasions ) and they can be easily "upgraded" simply by adding current control chips...

    P.S. tigris, there is something wrong with your keyboard, every time you hit the "Enter" key it makes, like, 3 times the normal space!!!
    I've been wondering if something like the 21 can be upgraded with a Mobydrv driver. Need to see a tear-down.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    I've been wondering if something like the 21 can be upgraded with a Mobydrv driver. Need to see a tear-down.
    If the layout that Sirius is predicting turns out to be the case, that may wind up being the hot ticket to make a badass light on the cheap. It looks like it'll shed heat well enough

  166. #166
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    Wonder how effective those cooling fins will be, given that they are in the shadow of the emitter body. Imagine might be more effective were they raised vertically but the lamp would look a fright. Then again Seca does something similar but they also use a bunch more material in designs of greater complexity. Waiting for tigris to do his wind tunnel test when he gets his.

  167. #167
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    Andy, I was wondering about that but I think it'll be ok because it looks like the light has a good amount of mass to the body. I was thinking though if it wouldn't be a bad idea to make some type of small diffuser that sticks on and sort of forces the air through the fins

  168. #168
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    Yeah I was entertaining the thought of affixing a "cheater" too, manbeer. BTW the BT21 only weighs a few grams more than the Yinding, IIRC.

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    Guess the body gives the appearance of being larger/heavier due to the fins being so deep

  170. #170
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    Mine should be here Friday (I hope) as it shipped DHL express yesterday.

    @sirius, ya its tapatalk app on my phone, when I edit a post it does that sometimes, ANNOYING AS HELL!!! Lol

    Also I can bet this weighs noticeably more than a yinding, im thinking more between ss x2 and 880 clone weight.

  171. #171
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    Cable lengths may be slightly different between lights but my red Yinding weighs 60g without fixing band, the BT21 weighs 90g and BT40s 115g.
    I did a fairly unscientific comparison of yinding and BT21 in my very cluttered garage, against a whitewashed wall.
    At the same distance from the wall and side by side (remember the BT21 doesn't have clear lenses but does have around 2.5A rather than 2A), the centre spots of the 2 were of similar size and intensity as i moved the 2 lights further away from the wall, centre hot spot fading at same distances, however at close range before the hot spot faded ( or more likely increased in size to the point that the beams of both lights merged) the BT21 has a noticeable square (not round) spill. It was as if the extra amps/watts were generating only the extra spill rather than larger more intense hot spot.
    Like i say not very scientific because they were at so close a range and as they were side by side the beams quite quickly merged as i moved back from the wall.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nitefighter BT21 2x XM-L2 NW light-20150520_193349-1.jpg  


  172. #172
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    Nice info and pic, thnx. Helps show ppl size versus yinding.

    I wont be doing a good comparison test only because my Yindings push 2.3A (black one) and 2.7A (Blue one) Since I modify everything lol. But Ill run my BT21 against my blue yinding since it has KD2 driver so I can set program close to stock yinding. Better comparison will come from GHJS I believe.

    Since my testing and all that stuff is scattered over multiple threads testing/review will include (will be editting OP to make info right on first page once I finish reveiw but progress I will post normal)

    -compatibility with aftermarket optics (i have a full mix of both carclo and LEDDNA/Glowworm optics in all beam patterns)
    -Current tests on all modes
    -Temp testing (as any calls it, my wind tunnel test, but air speed at about 6-7mph steady)
    -internal pics and details
    -beam shots both on white wall and outside
    -Test ride Video, hopefully trail ride this time (stupid weather)

  173. #173
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    Teaser alert, dont get this via lighthead only. Yeap DHL came a day early. This is why kit is so much more than bt40s kit, and ill pay the extra for it!!!


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    What!?!? Is that a spiffy carrying case? Awesome... Need updates asap

  175. #175
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    Yeap only the kit comes with it, I was hoping it did but couldn't be sure till it arrived.

  176. #176
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    Little more teasing (at my parents for the holiday but brought it with, kid with new toy syndrome )

    Good battery bag far better than any one ive seen yet for cheaper lights, water resistant casing over 4cell pack that you can actually change to other welded/wrapped 4 cell packs.

    Oh and head strap that's actually useable for a helmet mount.

    And case is big enough if you remove wall charger to carry another light and battery pack (2 size depending).

  177. #177
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    Beam shots asap! I'll be waiting up

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    Well done Tigris! First impressions: Kit is nice, with a well made zippered carry case. Inside is the light, charger, battery, helmet mount, Velcro straps, M/F extension, 3 silicon bands and instructions. All parts seem well made including the charger, which isn't the cheap one normally included in Chinese light kits.

    Light head itself is noticeably larger than the Yinding yet still a very compact light. When you plug the light into the battery the button doesn't light, which some may like and others may find it hard to find in the dark. Lenses are frosted and the tint I would say is 4C. It's definitely more yellow than the correct 3C Yinding, while not as yellow as the 5C Yinding. As shown before, the button changes color for each of the 4 levels and Off is a long hold.

    After all Tigris' hard work, I will refrain from posting anymore, until he has time to post his review, this is his baby. After his review I can do some side by sides of all the Neutrals if you guys want.

    Rep sent and Thanks again Tigris!

  179. #179
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    Thnx GJHS, cant believe what this turned out to be, expected good lights far surpassed that. Aight guys base tests done, awesome light!!! Pics uploading now so I can post.

    But base info will be loaded to OP to make it easier for those browsing to reference all the main info at once.

    And yes manbeer got beam shots. Tint hard to say because ive seen optics throw the tint off, im going to put leddna optics in it and see the tint there. But first impression, im with GHJS, its 4c.

  180. #180
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    Any current draw testing done? And the 4c seems to confirm garrybunks estimate of the bt40 so it's nice to see uniformity between the two

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    Beam shots asap! I'll be waiting up
    No, I want the teardown first, followed by "Will it blend?", then beamshots.

  182. #182
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    LMAO, kids chill I DID IT ALL ALREADY, just for you guys. "Lab Tests" (my kitchen table and my homemade equipment) and beam shots in the same fashion (including switching where vehicles were parked so it looks the same) as my other beam shots of other lights. ANyway, PICS COMING, HOLD ON A SEC, they just finished loading.

  183. #183
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    OK just for you manbeer:

    Low



    medium (sorry im not always the most stable lol)



    high



    Turbo



    It is PITCH BLACK, on the second pic in the entire air iluminated in my neighbors yard

    Next is current per setting pack wasnt fully charged. I charged it, but I was a kid on christmas, I was playing with it while we were all relaxing after eating a ton of grilled burgers, salads, and my soon to be famous smoked ribs:









    Battery test at this exact time: 2 hrs 25 mins: started on turbo but put my big custom Vancbiker made heatsink gopro mount on it (explain why in a minute)

    1.4A at 6.14 volts at meter right now, 2:25hrs into battery run test.

    Heat management:

    Turbo IS NO JOKE. as you saw above, LOTS OF LIGHT, and head reflects it, case temp 134F in the "Wind Tunnel" Test (yeap Andy that is my name for it now in honor of you lol). IT GETS HOT. SO for max power run test I put my big heat sink gopro mount I had Vanc make for my ssX3 on it, keeps it around 125, till power from pack dropped low enough it wasnt cooking.

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    Wow. Nice beam shots...Can the head sustain high for the entire runtime or does it step down due to heating? How many lumens estimates are these shots?

  185. #185
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    Update: 2 hrs 36mins till protection trip when started and left of turbo, around 15%

    On charger now, see true pack capacity (which at best is what they say it is for that kind of run time at 2.8A draw)

  186. #186
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    estimate 1300 lumens on turbo.

    Havent had a chance to do all that yet, just received light today and just had time to run tests starting a couple hours ago. No light can sustain more than medium without air flow, more air flow higher it can stay. Hold high, based on current readings will do it no problem as long as your moving at least a little bit. ALso if you read the whole post, it explains what i had to do to hold turbo for extended period of time on my wind tunnel unit which is about 7mph wind speed.

  187. #187
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    Tigris, these readings confirmed my readings with 20w on turbo, and the lighthead getting very hot, very quickly. I didn't test for very long so i didn't have any info on whether it steps down due to heat. I wasn't sure whether 'turbo' needed to be used as a short overdrive setting rather than a high setting that you can use for your entire ride.
    I'm interested in your views on beam with stock, and leddna optics.

  188. #188
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    Turbo is a NO WAY DONT LEAVE IT THERE!!! Short bursts only, on the wind tunnel took 11 minutes to step down, ambient temp 75F. I knew as soon as I plugged it in and powered it on that you were right on with the readings from yours (not sure your set up but mine looks rough, its highly accurate with <1% deviation)

    Stock optics are pretty sweet, decent throw but still fairly smooth wide beam. Going to play with LEDDNA and carclo optics on this one (since it can except both with easy oring changes, doesnt use a funky gasket)

  189. #189
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    Optics update:



    Carclo fit just as stock to, good there, seems to work decent too but as usual they have a goofy edge to the beam pattern which bugs me.



    LEDDNA optics fit up in the faceplate more since they are slightly taller, and doesnt seem to help or hurt anything. Just changes beam pattern based on what optics I install.



    Also changing my estimation on lumens, 11-1200 at first on turbo, as it heats up lumens drop, so you dont see peek for more than a few seconds but you dont notice the drop visually unless on a white wall as light looks more 3c for a couple seconds then starts the hint of yellow being 4C. Other lumen specs are off too.

    high is half, then on down from here.



    Color is a bit off from any lights i have that are full true 3c, but like my yinding that has a dedomed 1c on one side, it matches up better than anything else since 1c dedomed is between 3 and 4c tint.



    But honestly, other than the lighthead uses the normal 22awg cable (nothing else does...) I see nothing to mess with. Optics for me would work for either helmet or bars.



    One thing I DONT LIKE, high output vs turbo. high is only 1.3A WTF???? turbo 2.8???? high should be 2-2.25A. medium at 1.3A and low around .5A. Head can run at 2-2.25 all day long without thermal issues. But turbo is too much (though Ill do a ride test using my various sizes of heatsink gopro mounts )
    Last edited by tigris99; 05-26-2015 at 09:04 AM.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    high is only 1.3A WTF????

  191. #191
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    Damn that's kind of low for a high....

  192. #192
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    What do the leds mount on? Is there good heat transfer?

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlSto View Post
    What do the leds mount on? Is there good heat transfer?
    All of that is in the original first post now. I put all that important info on there so it was easy to find.

    Heres the pics again here for reference too:




    solid aluminum behind emitter plate except gap where driver fits in behind the emitters.

  194. #194
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    Sounds great.

    But now to the question. If you should recommend a light to a friend. Would you recommend the BT-21 or the Yinding?

  195. #195
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    I'm kicking myself for not ordering the whole kit but looking over my order I figure I should have it either Thursday or Friday. When I ordered mine no mention was made of any delays, only that payment was received and that the order would be quickly processed.

    dmc71 mentioned that the beam pattern of the BT21 had some "squareness' to the beam pattern. That might actually be good as the Gloworm optics tend to do the same thing. After next week I go on my first week of vacation for the year. I hope the weather continues to be as nice as it's been all this spring. *Whew*...I rode for the last three days and today the trails I rode were full of hills and all kinds of technical features...I am tuckered out!

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Yeah, I'm trying to figure that one out as well. High should at least be 1.8A, medium around 1A and low about 500ma. Too bad the lamp isn't programmable so you could adjust the output for each mode.

    At this point ( seeing I don't have mine yet ) I have a feeling the modes are spaced out ( lumen wise ) very much like the BT40S. Perhaps another reason for setting the other modes so low is that the lamp tends to get hot and the manufacture wanted to make sure that the lower modes would operate in warmer temperatures.

    Tonight when I did my ride with my BT40S I noticed that it got hotter than before. Likely because I was using the highest mode more along a really long and winding section of hillside. Once I got to ground level I once again bumped up the output. As usual the indicator never did leave green although this ride was shorter ( 1.5 hr )

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    Sounds great.

    But now to the question. If you should recommend a light to a friend. Would you recommend the BT-21 or the Yinding?
    That remains to be seen. So far I don't see anything that puts the Yinding to shame, it's still a quality light head.

  198. #198
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    Even though high is only 1.3A the photos don't show a huge gap from high to turbo, so to me the spacing looks right and high is then very battery conserving. Thanks tigris!

    -Garry

  199. #199
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    This is pretty exciting. Can't wait until mine arrives, but until then i can live vicariously through everyone else. Seems it is more different than the yinding than we expected. Also sounds like the mode spacing is similar to the BT40. It won't be everyones cup of tea, but as garry said, high would probably give pretty good runtimes and be "enough" light for most situations. I can't see in the pic but what is the driver setup like? Would it be easy to swap with something or is it a proprietary design?

  200. #200
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    Can the light sustain high for the entire duration of the battery capacity?

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