Geomangear temporarily has stopped selling Magicshine lightsets due to our concerns regarding the safety, quality, and performance of Magicshine's lithium-ion battery packs sold by Geomangear between July 2009 and November 2010. We have determined that these Magicshine battery packs do not meet Geomangear's high expectations regarding product safety, quality, and performance. We have notified both the manufacturer of Magicshine lightsets and the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission that Geomangear intends to voluntarily recall all Magicshine battery packs sold by Geomangear.
We are actively working with the Safety Commission, outside engineering consultants, and a new battery pack supplier to evaluate product recall options for our customers. Geomangear will provide recall information and instructions directly to our affected customers after our final corrective action plan has been approved by the Safety Commission.
If you bought a Magicshine lightset from us between June 2009 and November 2010, please discontinue using your lightset until we are able to provide you with an upgraded replacement battery pack or another recall remedy. Despite our best efforts, this process will take some time, and we ask for your patience. You can rest assured that Geomangear has taken, and will continue to take, appropriate steps to protect the safety of our customers, and we will stand behind our products. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and appreciate your continued loyalty and support during this unprecedented situation our company is facing.
thanks for the update.. i know you suggest to stop using them, but if its my primary light what to do? as was said is the potential problem when charging or when operating the light? i know these things can take time to resolve but i'd prefer to not have to buy another light to use in the interim.
Thanks for looking out for us, Geoman! I for one will buy a replacement pack from you once things get rolling again. I know this must make a big hit on your bottom line, and I think I speak for everybody here that we all appreciate your not putting dollars before people, as is all too common in this world.
GeoMan, thanks for the warning email. I hope this gets worked out quickly and you can get your business back on track.
Unfortunately in 45 minutes I'm meeting my riding buddies and I have to give them a copy of the email and tell them how the lights I convinced them to buy aren't safe to use. And the three of us haven't even had a chance to ride with the new lights.......
Lipo batteries do not like a complete discharge. It is best to store them on 70-80% charge. Complete discharge is one of the factors that makes them swell and become dangerous. That is how my $100 rc cells are to be taken care of.
Ok, so far this is my understanding of safe handling in terms of these battery packs.
Do not run the battery pack all the way down to zero charge
Do not store the battery pack with less than 70% charge. (Is 100% charge ok? Can the pack be charged until the MS charger goes green and then stored? Should we be sure to top the pack off regularly all year long? How long can you leave the pack lying around before you should give it some charge again?)
Do not leave the battery pack charging unattended.
Store the battery pack in something metal, not in a bag or closet or somewhere that other materials will catch fire if the pack undergoes combustion. (Is it ok to charge the pack in the supplied cloth case with the frame straps, or should it be taken out to charge?)
Do not overcharge the battery pack. Keep an eye on it while charging and get it off the charger when it turns green.
Do not store in extreme conditions, hot or cold. (Is this at all safety related, or more just for the long life of the cells?)
Anything else? Any misinformation there?
My cycling addiction is peaking and with the time change I got the itch to try night riding. Sadly, this Geomangear situation struck at the same time. I didn't want to spend a lot in case I didn't take to riding at night, so I went with a MS 900 unit from an Ebay retailer who advertises on MTBR as well. I figured once Geoman got a better battery solution, I would go to him for a second light if needed and/or for when my battery pack started to die. I got the impression from the threads that the issue was essentially the packs failing to hold charge after only a season of riding or so.
Now, however, the safety issue is all but confirmed by Geoman. I understand his position in this and not being at liberty to freely give details, but it seems like here on MTBR we have had zero first hand accounts, and one second hand account of this fire hazard. I'd like to be able to use my new purchase that just arrived today, but I guess I'm questioning exactly what the extent of the safety concern is with these batteries. It seems like many have used these without problem, and if some simple precautions can lessen the chances of having a problem, then I will go ahead and use the light for now. Anyone who feels knowledgeable about this subject or LiB's in general, please comment and respond. Thanks.
Ok, so far this is my understanding of safe handling in terms of these battery packs.
Do not run the battery pack all the way down to zero charge
Do not store the battery pack with less than 70% charge. (Is 100% charge ok? Can the pack be charged until the MS charger goes green and then stored?)
Do not leave the battery pack charging unattended.
Store the battery pack in something metal, not in a bag or closet or somewhere that other materials will catch fire if the pack undergoes combustion.
Anything else? Any misinformation there?
My cycling addiction is peaking and with the time change I got the itch to try night riding. Sadly, this Geomangear situation struck at the same time. I didn't want to spend a lot in case I didn't take to riding at night, so I went with a MS 900 unit from an Ebay retailer who advertises on MTBR as well. I figured once Geoman got a better battery solution, I would go to him for a second light if needed and/or for when my battery pack started to die. I got the impression from the threads that the issue was essentially the packs failing to hold charge after only a season of riding or so.
Now, however, the safety issue is all but confirmed by Geoman. I understand his position in this and not being at liberty to freely give details, but it seems like here on MTBR we have had zero first hand accounts, and one second hand account of this fire hazard. I'd like to be able to use my new purchase that just arrived today, but I guess I'm questioning exactly what the extent of the safety concern is with these batteries. It seems like many have used these without problem, and if some simple precautions can lessen the chances of having a problem, then I will go ahead and use the light for now. Anyone who feels knowledgeable about this subject or LiB's in general, please comment and respond. Thanks.
You will have a brighter, safer light if you just trade your MS light in on a Baja Strykr... I just bought one with the trade-up dealio and it's fantastic. Plus they are giving you more on trade-in than if you returned the MS light PLUS geomangear won't have to take any hit on them either.
You will have a brighter, safer light if you just trade your MS light in on a Baja Strykr... I just bought one with the trade-up dealio and it's fantastic. Plus they are giving you more on trade-in than if you returned the MS light PLUS geomangear won't have to take any hit on them either.
Well, I didn't get my from Geoman since he had already discontinued. Plus, I have yet to ride a single mile at night, and part of my decision on a MS was that I didn't want to sink too much money (even after discount price levels for the Strykr) into a light set up if I wasn't sure I'd use it enough. I will keep it in mind and hold on to my packaging for sure though.
You will have a brighter, safer light if you just trade your MS light in on a Baja Strykr... I just bought one with the trade-up dealio and it's fantastic. Plus they are giving you more on trade-in than if you returned the MS light PLUS geomangear won't have to take any hit on them either.
Troll, Troll,troll, troll, troooooooooollllll!
Please give us you expert proof that the battery pack, which probably uses the same 18650 Li cells as the MS are safer...
You do seem to have a heck of a lot of posts to be a Baja shill. There was another poster sort of spamming that trade-in deal on the MS threads, but it was only one post per thread so I didn't think it was too bad. Still, I'd like to see if there is any consensus on proper handling precautions since we know human nature will prevail and people will still use their lights until this recall goes through. Also people who ordered from Ebay and DX that won't have the benefit of Geo's recall.
I'm sure Geoman isn't in a position to clarify or specify further and can't give much advice due to liability and all, so we are left to discuss amongst ourselves.
I spend way too much time here and I would have to say that gticlay is a decent guy.
He does like his Strykr and is very free with recommending it, but he does seem to recommend other lights as well when those lights fit the needs of the OP.
Originally Posted by gticlay
Buy a set from EL34 here on the board. Same emitter, better quality.... way better.
Originally Posted by gticlay
I'd get a Cygolite. They are pretty darn bulletproof.
Originally Posted by gticlay
A great option already came up and that's to buy some of EL34's P7 Marwi conversions or an Amoeba. They are both fantastic units from what I've read here.
I was also gonna say I bought a Stryker and it's $200 with the trade in program. I think it might literally be bulletproof
Originally Posted by gticlay
The Cygolite series is pretty darn nice quality. I especially like the tridenX. Extremely well built and solid (but not super heavy).
I take offense to that. I post here all the time. A troll will post something just to start a fight. Oh like your post
Or baseless unproven statements to further an agenda and get a rise...
Maybe I should have called you a spammer.
I guess you have created a new type. A troll spammer. Should we call you a trammer or a Spoller?
GTi's post is a troll post in every sense. It's just not a remedial as others.
Or baseless unproven statements to further an agenda and get a rise...
Maybe I should have called you a spammer.
I guess you have created a new type. A troll spammer. Should we call you a trammer or a Spoller?
GTi's post is a troll post in every sense. It's just not a remedial as others.
Oh whatever. A lot of your posts are d!ck anyway I've noticed. Wait, let me guess..... you sell them on ebay or here under a different screen name?
Another good option until things are sorted out is the MTE-15 torch from DX. Just got mine in the mail today and it's every bit as bright as the MS light and you can mount it in several ways, including a $2 bar mount.
Oh whatever. A lot of your posts are d!ck anyway I've noticed.
Another good option until things are sorted out is the MTE-15 torch from DX. Just got mine in the mail today and it's every bit as bright as the MS light and you can mount it in several ways, including a $2 bar mount.
"Oh whatever"??? Ha-Ha. I'd be butt hurt too if someone called me out for my trammer (troll+spammer) posts.
Nice back pedal with the "another good option" though
Recall or no recall- I still have to commute home in the dark during the week. And all I have are the 3 magic shines I bought from Geoman last year. (Part of my commute is in the woods and I've been loving the light).
Thankfully, we haven't heard about too many magic shine battery packs exploding- so I'm just going to be careful and keep fingers crossed until such time as recall is put in place.
OH and THANKS GEOMANGEAR for the public announcement as well as the email alert I received.
Anyone interested in magicshine alternatives can read GTIclay's new thread, MAGICSHINE ALTERNATIVES. LOL...
I am sure he will create it any minute now. And with primary research studies proving how reliable his suggestions are.
Cmon GTi, Step up! Just copy and paste all the posts you have made in the other Magicshine threads. That should get the ball rolling.
The aggressive way you are personally attacking me is a big flag that you have another motive. Did I steal your girl back in middle school or something? Sorry man.
Notice I didn't bash geoman and actually told him good job? That's because he's done a great job. You are all sour grapes and people were asking what they should do since they need a light.
Mine came from The Singletrack Store around November 2009. I will probably just keep an eye on it.. I figure if it hasn't blown up or caught on fire after probably at least 75 charge cycles, it isn't likely to do so now.
The best way to look at this is everybody's going to get some damn good battery packs I'm sure at this point they will be over-specked to be not only safe but reliable. way to step up to the plate Geo a lot of small company's would have walked on this one. we still have to remember what we are getting for $90 bucks this is going to really sweeten the pie. sure its going to suck waiting and I imagine a few will be using them but just being careful .
And for all the haters hows that for customer service sure there's going to be the whiners that they cant go riding but there are product recalls EVERYDAY sh#t happens, it too bad it is what we need right now to get that after work ride but it is what it is.
I personally have 6 lights affected by this recall, and have for the past 2 weeks been looking into alternative batteries to get me thru this, and when I get the new recalled batteries I will have a bunch of back up's
Geo has spoken and we are not in the dark anymore it would be nice if this board could go back to what it is made for and not all the BS the sky is falling sh*t
Last edited by Rakuman; 11-15-2010 at 08:30 PM.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
I'll probably regret getting in the middle of this, but I will offer up the information I have based on some testing I did over the past week and a half. First, I want to be clear that I have no way to know of the specific issues that prompted Geoman to stop selling the lights and pursue a recall, I can only comment on what I observed in my testing. I also don't have a vested interest in this situation as I personally use my own lights and I do not offer them for sale.
I have ties to a large local bike club, which includes a fair number of magicshine light users. Based on all the discussion on the forum about magicshine battery issues, I put out a query to the club to find out if many folks were experiencing battery problems. I quickly got a fair number of responses and was "loaned" a number of packs that were experiencing problems.
I opened up the packs and ran them through a couple of cycles while instrumenting the current and voltage of each cell bank. What I found was that the packs were badly out of balance due to what are known as "soft shorts" within the cells. "Soft shorts" cause the cells to self-discharge at a higher rate than normal, which is what throws the pack out of balance. How quickly the pack goes out of balance depend purely on "time" and the extent of the soft short. Number of cycles or how the pack is cared for has little to no effect. This in itself isn't good for the pack, but it doesn't necessarily represent a safety issue. But, I also observed that the protection PCB lets the cells drop down to right below 2V on discharge. That's really below what is safe and can lead to cell damage that can cause a safety issue down the road.
Based on what I found I decided to check a pack that didn't appear to be having obvious problems. I found that this pack was also out of balance, just not enough to be showing such obvious external problems. So these 2 issues are likely interacting with each other. Normally, the protection PCB should only stop charge or discharge in fairly rare cases as a last ditch safety protection. But in the case of the magicshine packs, the protection PCB is having to shutdown the charge / discharge on a large percentage of packs and is doing so on almost every charge cycle and many of the discharge cycles. That has two implications; first it means that even a few rare failures of the protection PCB have a much higher chance that normal of causing a safety issue with the pack. Second, it means the voltage thresholds for the protection PCB really need to be spot on and that doesn't appear to be true.
The net is there really isn't anything the end user can do to in terms of how they care for or use the pack to guarantee that a problem won't occur. I say guarantee because, it's true that having an actual problem is probably somewhat rare. But on the other hand, these kinds of actions don't usually happen if there hasn't been some kind of real world problem. The engineer in me would say, follow the advice and stop using the packs. The mountain biker in me says, a lot of folks are going to keep using them, my advice is be really careful where you charge and store them. Problems are more likely while they are charging but can happen at any time.
The aggressive way you are personally attacking me is a big flag that you have another motive. Did I steal your girl back in middle school or something? Sorry man.
Notice I didn't bash geoman and actually told him good job? That's because he's done a great job. You are all sour grapes and people were asking what they should do since they need a light.
Ooohhh you got me... Why is is that in just about every magicshine thread you have a post or 2 suggesting an alternative and nothing else? Hmmmm! I wonder?
And you suggest and deflect that I sell Magicshines? Embarrasing! Let's see, you have many posts touting other lights especially the Stryker models and I have suggested none.
Even a 10yr old can figure that one out!
Oh and I am waiting for the proof that your suggestions are more reliable than Magicshines. Waiting as always as you deflect...
Hi Jim, you will be included with the GeoManGear recall we have obtained customer info for The Singletrack Store customers already. Notification will go out to STS customers shortly via US Safety Commission
Originally Posted by Jim311
Mine came from The Singletrack Store around November 2009. I will probably just keep an eye on it.. I figure if it hasn't blown up or caught on fire after probably at least 75 charge cycles, it isn't likely to do so now.
Ooohhh you got me... Why is is that in just about every magicshine thread you have a post or 2 suggesting an alternative and nothing else? Hmmmm! I wonder?
And you suggest and deflect that I sell Magicshines? Embarrasing! Let's see, you have many posts touting other lights especially the Stryker models and I have suggested none.
Even a 10yr old can figure that one out!
Oh and I am waiting for the proof that your suggestions are more reliable than Magicshines. Waiting as always as you deflect...
How about this:
My TridenX is going strong for over a year. I've used this light more than any of the others...... maybe 150 charges? It kicks butt. Since it's past warranty, I'm gonna mod it with XML LED's (look at my posts in the DIY).
I've got two MS lights, hope this gets resolved soon.
And can the juveniles take their pissing match offline? Thanks.
I assume you mean me and someone else. I apologize. But I have to defend myself because, well, I'm me and I do that. Sorry. No more posts here after this no matter what anyone says about "gticlay". Again, sorry slocaus.
Wow i got mine a couple of weeks ago and i haven't got my email yet either, patience my friend He just announced today that's a big database to he has to get back to.
Sorry I'm just having a little fun but don't worry Geo seems to have this one under control.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
I truly hope GM will get this straightened out but I am certainly not going to hold my breath waiting for the manufacturer to come clean. Even with the cost of a known "safe" battery pack from many of the places already posted its still a good deal.
Cant wait to buy another MS head on ebay as the prices plummet...
Last edited by TraxFactory; 11-16-2010 at 01:57 AM.
Thanks for the e-mail I recieved today. I have two MS900 that purchased this summer and I can't say they've been problematic, but I will not use them just the same.
Could you give us an idea how long this might take to get suitable replacement packs?
It's really too bad that this is happened and I wish you the best of luck in getting this resolved as quickly as possible. I predict if your company handles this well and in a timely manner you will gain countless numbers of additional sales. A crisis can turn into a blessing if managed properly.
Again, good luck and I'm look forward to your response.
EndUser
My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich
Thanks Geoman, take care of what needs doing. The dust will eventually settle. Those who know do realise its the manufacturer's source of the problem. Good luck!
To make sure I understand (and this is NOT a complaint)....
the sudden total battery failure I experienced about 3 weeks ago will not be subject to recall as I bought prior to June 2009?
Again, not a complaint, just want to make sure before I spend $ at Batteries Plus...been getting by fine with other MS unit and old L&M halogens that get about 45min to an hour out of their batteries....
Thanks for the support, the GeoManGear team looks forward to getting this taken care of as quickly as possible
Geoman,
I purchased the MJ-812 Magicshine flashlight (single 18650 cell) from you last year and have used it far more than my Magicshine bike light with battery back. Apparently, you no longer sell this light.
I use this light with the original battery as well as Trustfire 2400 mah cells with PCB circuitry. Is it safe to continue using this light? Thanks
Thanks for the support, the GeoManGear team looks forward to getting this taken care of as quickly as possible
It looks as if there have been a few people wondering what the specifics of the recall entails. If it's a safety issue I hope we can get some more information. If it's a performance issue I can suck it up.
Please inform us of any safety risks. It would much appreciated so we at least have some sort of clue as to what is going on/
Hi Mike
GeoManGear was not retailing Magicshine lightsets prior to June 2009 you may simply be mistaken about the date. The recall covers every Magicshine battery that GeoManGear has ever distributed. Did you purchase directly from China prior to June 2009? We plan to make sure every GeoManGear customer is taken care of, you can email us directly [email protected] to make sure you are on our list
Originally Posted by Mike Brown
To make sure I understand (and this is NOT a complaint)....
the sudden total battery failure I experienced about 3 weeks ago will not be subject to recall as I bought prior to June 2009?
Again, not a complaint, just want to make sure before I spend $ at Batteries Plus...been getting by fine with other MS unit and old L&M halogens that get about 45min to an hour out of their batteries....
Thanks for the support Chromag, we are working hard to take care of all of our friends and understand with the days getting shorter that the timing is terrible but safety comes first.
Originally Posted by Chromagftw
Thanks Geoman, take care of what needs doing. The dust will eventually settle. Those who know do realise its the manufacturer's source of the problem. Good luck!
The US Safety Commission is reviewing all of the info that has been provided, we are unable to confirm specifics at this point, we must wait for their direction. The fact that we have announced a voluntary recall on every Magicshine battery we distributed, recommended temporarily discontinuing using the lightsets with the Magicshine battery and involved the US Safety Commission should give you a pretty good idea of where we stand. Safety first, store your batteries outside until we can replace them with a completely different battery pack. Please mention this to anyone you know who has a Magicshine lightset.
Originally Posted by my51isfast
It looks as if there have been a few people wondering what the specifics of the recall entails. If it's a safety issue I hope we can get some more information. If it's a performance issue I can suck it up.
Please inform us of any safety risks. It would much appreciated so we at least have some sort of clue as to what is going on/
Hi Mike
GeoManGear was not retailing Magicshine lightsets prior to June 2009 you may simply be mistaken about the date. The recall covers every Magicshine battery that GeoManGear has ever distributed. Did you purchase directly from China prior to June 2009? We plan to make sure every GeoManGear customer is taken care of, you can email us directly [email protected] to make sure you are on our list
GEOMAN, can you please inform what the actual issue/issues with this system is? We know not to use them, but what are the risks. Do we need to store out batteries in a specified manner? Is there any issue with the head unit themselves?
We have not had any safety issues with the lightheads, we are specifically concerned about the quality of the Magicshine batteries and the safety of all users. The US Safety Commission will provide more info on this matter shortly.
Originally Posted by my51isfast
GEOMAN, can you please inform what the actual issue/issues with this system is? We know not to use them, but what are the risks. Do we need to store out batteries in a specified manner? Is there any issue with the head unit themselves?
GEOMAN, can you please inform what the actual issue/issues with this system is? We know not to use them, but what are the risks. Do we need to store out batteries in a specified manner? Is there any issue with the head unit themselves?
From earlier in the thread ...
Safety first, store your batteries outside until we can replace them with a completely different battery pack. Please mention this to anyone you know who has a Magicshine lightset.
Hi Mike
GeoManGear was not retailing Magicshine lightsets prior to June 2009 you may simply be mistaken about the date. The recall covers every Magicshine battery that GeoManGear has ever distributed. Did you purchase directly from China prior to June 2009? We plan to make sure every GeoManGear customer is taken care of, you can email us directly [email protected] to make sure you are on our list
That's what happens when I post early in the morning with a head cold. Last winter was 2009. Got it.
FWIW- I would be happy to pay a reasonable replacement cost- say, 20-30 dollars- rather than expect you, the distributor, to be held wholly responsible for the manufacturing problems.
No worries and thanks for the support Mike, we are working on a list of remedies with the US Safety Commision to help our customers get what they need as quickly as possible.
Originally Posted by Mike Brown
That's what happens when I post early in the morning with a head cold. Last winter was 2009. Got it.
FWIW- I would be happy to pay a reasonable replacement cost- say, 20-30 dollars- rather than expect you, the distributor, to be held wholly responsible for the manufacturing problems.
That's what happens when I post early in the morning with a head cold. Last winter was 2009. Got it.
FWIW- I would be happy to pay a reasonable replacement cost- say, 20-30 dollars- rather than expect you, the distributor, to be held wholly responsible for the manufacturing problems.
Thanks!
Seconded. A discounted replacement fee would be appreciated, although a straight up replacement of course would be great. I just bought a new light set a couple months ago and have not had any problems. Should I send back the battery, keep it but not use it? I also have one from about one year ago that is still going strong. Is that battery effected by this announcement too?
Yes our battery experts have suggested we should include ALL Magicshine batteries in this recall. We advise not to use, and you can exercize extreme caution and store outdoors to ensure safety. Our plan which is being reviewed by the US Safety Commission would be to recall the batteries and replace with a battery pack from an alternate manufacturer as soon as possible.
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
Seconded. A discounted replacement fee would be appreciated, although a straight up replacement of course would be great. I just bought a new light set a couple months ago and have not had any problems. Should I send back the battery, keep it but not use it? I also have one from about one year ago that is still going strong. Is that battery effected by this announcement too?
Lipo batteries do not like a complete discharge. It is best to store them on 70-80% charge. Complete discharge is one of the factors that makes them swell and become dangerous. That is how my $100 rc cells are to be taken care of.
... these batteries are LiPo. I think they are regular LiIon. Maybe I don't understand the difference, but aren't LiPo like brick style layered batteries? IIRC, those are the ones famous for bursting into flames when smacked really hard. MS batteries are the round can style 18650 cells.
Hello Geo
Thank you for standing behind what you sell
here's a ? that I'm sure a lot of people want to ask.
Will the 90 day warranty on the light heads be extended to coincide with the down time as of yesterday due to not being able to use them?
Again thanks for stepping up to the plate Ive got a bunch of guys just waiting to get some lights when this issue is resolved.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
... these batteries are LiPo. I think they are regular LiIon. Maybe I don't understand the difference, but aren't LiPo like brick style layered batteries? IIRC, those are the ones famous for bursting into flames when smacked really hard. MS batteries are the round can style 18650 cells.
they use the same lithium-ion chemistry and so the discharging limitations he mentioned apply the same to either one. The difference is that electrolyte is held is a solid not a liquid and they can be made into those flat layer shapes that isn't possible with a normal liquid li-ion cell
I'm not 100% on the damage thing, but I believe its because some of those packs are made without as much protective casing to prevent punctures and such, are the internal layers probably break open and react with each other. Round cells like the 18650 always have a metal casing and I think that is the safety difference. In fact, based on the little I do know of batteries I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some 18650s are LiPo inside
.... The recall covers every Magicshine battery that GeoManGear has ever distributed. Did you purchase directly from China prior to June 2009? We plan to make sure every GeoManGear customer is taken care of, you can email us directly [email protected] to make sure you are on our list
Too bad I hacked up my one bad battery and used the connector to make a 2 cell battery for my helmet light. I also Plasti-Dipped my other battery. I still have the dead battery with the connector cut off. I figured it was out of warranty, and it died because I forgot about it on the charger for a couple months (under my desk at home, on a soft wood combustible floor )
Would one or both still be covered by the recall, since I modified them?
I would understand if they weren't covered. I wouldn't hold you to it.
I'll probably regret getting in the middle of this, but I will offer up the information I have based on some testing I did over the past week and a half. First, I want to be clear that I have no way to know of the specific issues that prompted Geoman to stop selling the lights and pursue a recall, I can only comment on what I observed in my testing. I also don't have a vested interest in this situation as I personally use my own lights and I do not offer them for sale.
I have ties to a large local bike club, which includes a fair number of magicshine light users. Based on all the discussion on the forum about magicshine battery issues, I put out a query to the club to find out if many folks were experiencing battery problems. I quickly got a fair number of responses and was "loaned" a number of packs that were experiencing problems.
I opened up the packs and ran them through a couple of cycles while instrumenting the current and voltage of each cell bank. What I found was that the packs were badly out of balance due to what are known as "soft shorts" within the cells. "Soft shorts" cause the cells to self-discharge at a higher rate than normal, which is what throws the pack out of balance. How quickly the pack goes out of balance depend purely on "time" and the extent of the soft short. Number of cycles or how the pack is cared for has little to no effect. This in itself isn't good for the pack, but it doesn't necessarily represent a safety issue. But, I also observed that the protection PCB lets the cells drop down to right below 2V on discharge. That's really below what is safe and can lead to cell damage that can cause a safety issue down the road.
Based on what I found I decided to check a pack that didn't appear to be having obvious problems. I found that this pack was also out of balance, just not enough to be showing such obvious external problems. So these 2 issues are likely interacting with each other. Normally, the protection PCB should only stop charge or discharge in fairly rare cases as a last ditch safety protection. But in the case of the magicshine packs, the protection PCB is having to shutdown the charge / discharge on a large percentage of packs and is doing so on almost every charge cycle and many of the discharge cycles. That has two implications; first it means that even a few rare failures of the protection PCB have a much higher chance that normal of causing a safety issue with the pack. Second, it means the voltage thresholds for the protection PCB really need to be spot on and that doesn't appear to be true.
The net is there really isn't anything the end user can do to in terms of how they care for or use the pack to guarantee that a problem won't occur. I say guarantee because, it's true that having an actual problem is probably somewhat rare. But on the other hand, these kinds of actions don't usually happen if there hasn't been some kind of real world problem. The engineer in me would say, follow the advice and stop using the packs. The mountain biker in me says, a lot of folks are going to keep using them, my advice is be really careful where you charge and store them. Problems are more likely while they are charging but can happen at any time.
1) So, since it ran down to 2V, would it be safer to only use, say, 1/2 the batteries capacity (if we do use it)
2) Could you post a DIY so we can identify if our cells have this problem?
3) I happen to have a couple of 3-cell Lithium Ion battery packs lying around. I also have a nice charger, recommended by site user "homebrew". The 3-cells are in parallel. I was thinking of connecting both packs in series and using the connector from my MagicShine pack. This would hopefully be safer, and would also provide greater capacity, with two extra cells. How can I analyze the two packs to determine if this is safe? They each have a little circuit board in them, but are pretty simple- 3-cells in blue shrink wrap. They're a couple years old, but looked like they've never been used. I charged them last weekend. I have two MORE, but they look like they've been used.
4) GeoMan: How much of this might be due to the inexpensive charger? If I cut the connectors off the charger and cells for my own DIY pack, will I still be able to exchange the battery with you later?
Also, I tested my battery life for the first time last week. I got 3:05. For the last 5 minutes, the light flashed. The battery is only about a month old with maybe 8 cycles on it. It had been charged with the factory charger, and subsequently charged with my new high-end charger, which I'll use from here on out.
Hi Raku
It's always been GeoMan's policy to give our cusomers as much benefit as possible and we have traditionally been generous beyond the Manufacturers 90 day warranty policy. The team at GeoManGear continue on in typical GeoMan fashion, we will be here taking care of our customers for many years to come. We will definitely be taking into account downtime and you can ask other folks who have had an issue beyond the manufacturers warranty, we have been very willing to help our friends.
Originally Posted by Rakuman
Hello Geo
Thank you for standing behind what you sell
here's a ? that I'm sure a lot of people want to ask.
Will the 90 day warranty on the light heads be extended to coincide with the down time as of yesterday due to not being able to use them?
Again thanks for stepping up to the plate Ive got a bunch of guys just waiting to get some lights when this issue is resolved.
Hey Pimpbot
We'll have to wait on an answer for that one until the Safety Commission finalizes the remedies plan.
Originally Posted by pimpbot
Too bad I hacked up my one bad battery and used the connector to make a 2 cell battery for my helmet light. I also Plasti-Dipped my other battery. I still have the dead battery with the connector cut off. I figured it was out of warranty, and it died because I forgot about it on the charger for a couple months (under my desk at home, on a soft wood combustible floor )
Would one or both still be covered by the recall, since I modified them?
I would understand if they weren't covered. I wouldn't hold you to it.
Hey Pimpbot
We'll have to wait on an answer for that one until the Safety Commission finalizes the remedies plan.
Keep us informed. Here I thought I was immune to the recall because I got the light in October of 2009. O-well.
Thanks again for doing the right thing. I would be pretty pished if I was a retailer and found out that my supplier was recycling old laptop batteries in my 'new' inventory to sell. Glad you're keeping a level head about this.
The light head is great, btw. I would love to keep using the light, but the safety is a bit of a concern for me. I would hate to have the thing burst into flames during a ride... possibly if I smack it really hard. Is that a possibility? Is part of the issue the armoring of the pack? As in, are there reports of the goofy thing bursting into flames after it gets poked by a pointy rock during a crash?
I may just take matters into my own hand and build my own battery packs from new LG or Sanyo cells.
Precisely, that's why the entire recall process is planned and implemented by experts and the US Safety Commission will approve the method. GeoManGear is waiting for clarification on the entire process, it evolves as we progress through the investigation. We are trying to provide info as it is released, the info on the website will be updated when we have new info for everyone. It's really great to see everyone taking an interest in this matter, we are sorry that it has occurred and will do everything possible to help resolve the Magicshine battery issue.
Hi Jim, you will be included with the GeoManGear recall we have obtained customer info for The Singletrack Store customers already. Notification will go out to STS customers shortly via US Safety Commission
Thanks Geo for taking care of the STS customers as well. I have two batteries from you as well as two batteries from STS. I appreciate you stepping up for all those affected by this. Hopefully it will all be resolved soon.
You may want to post something over in roadbikereview as our roadie friends are also wondering what's going on with these batteries and your name keeps popping up.
Thank you again for all of the great service you provide.
I too, have several lights from earlier this year (before they were waterproof), and I did the popular "Plastidip" waterproofing. Any word if these are still covered would be greatly appreciated.
Geomangear
I apologize but I would like to know where this US Safety Commission?
It does not exist as a Federal Government agency?
I believe that being accurate would be the way to go at this point.
Is your "voluntary recall" because someone was injuried or they may be?
Poor run time is a defect and not a safety issue so please clarify.
Oh yes, the recall may fall under CPSC jurisdiction, a Federal Agency.
When did you notify them?
Thanks
Originally Posted by GEOMAN
Yes our battery experts have suggested we should include ALL Magicshine batteries in this recall. We advise not to use, and you can exercize extreme caution and store outdoors to ensure safety. Our plan which is being reviewed by the US Safety Commission would be to recall the batteries and replace with a battery pack from an alternate manufacturer as soon as possible.
That sucks, good thing I am currently in PT for a bum shoulder and can't ride anyway. However, I still think the light itself is awesome and as you already took care of a premature dead battery pack and have shown nothing but the highest level of customer service since I purchased the light set, I am glad I purcahsed from you and have no doubt that you will rectify the situation correctly and professionaly. Thanks, from a customer who continues to recomend you!
Duhhhh.
I purchased one from Geoman in 2009 and I know I am in the covered period.
Of course my concern is that we should know exactly what happened to cause the final straw. I did not receive an email on this, nor have several friends that own one.
My guess is that something caused this besides low run times.
Obviously, I would not expect GM to discuss this without possible legal counsel.
1) So, since it ran down to 2V, would it be safer to only use, say, 1/2 the batteries capacity (if we do use it)
It's a catch 22, how can you know the current capacity of the pack w/o running it down. Running it down to find the capacity can in theory potentially damage the cells unless your pack is still reasonably balanced, which I haven't seen many that were. Also keep in mind the capacity today will be different than the capacity tomorrow if the cells have unequal self discharge rates. So the question becomes 1/2 of what?? There is no completely safe answer?
Originally Posted by @dam
2) Could you post a DIY so we can identify if our cells have this problem?
In theory yes, but I'm in the middle of designing my next generation DIY lights so I doubt this will happen as it would be quite a bit of work.
Originally Posted by @dam
3) I happen to have a couple of 3-cell Lithium Ion battery packs lying around. I also have a nice charger, recommended by site user "homebrew". The 3-cells are in parallel. I was thinking of connecting both packs in series and using the connector from my MagicShine pack. This would hopefully be safer, and would also provide greater capacity, with two extra cells. How can I analyze the two packs to determine if this is safe? They each have a little circuit board in them, but are pretty simple- 3-cells in blue shrink wrap. They're a couple years old, but looked like they've never been used. I charged them last weekend. I have two MORE, but they look like they've been used.
I can't really answer this without a lot more details about those particular packs. Do you have a schematic or any info about the circuit boards in the packs?
Originally Posted by @dam
4) GeoMan: How much of this might be due to the inexpensive charger? If I cut the connectors off the charger and cells for my own DIY pack, will I still be able to exchange the battery with you later?
I can't vouch for the quality of the internals of the charger as I've never taken one apart, but I haven't seen any evidence via testing that the charger has anything to do with the battery pack issues. I doubt using a different charger will make any difference.
There is NO RECALL.
Geomangear is telling you not to use the product because there is an issue (yet to be explained).
For LEGAL reasons it's in their best interest to warn people about the "possible" (my word) danger here. Geoman if and when they do a recall are suppose to compensate the owners, sometimes only the original owners. This could mean an exchange new battery, $$$ or sadly nothing if there is no money at their end.
if this all comes down to the CPSC involvement and direction this WILL effect any company selling Magicshine in the US. Additionally this could cover anything bought through PayPal (maybe).
Deal Extreme is not a US company and is out of reach of the Federal Government agencies. HOWEVER, the shipping into the US of those products recalled or banned by the CPSC could be blocked from entry via USPS, Ship or freight forwarder.
My guess is that like all good CHinese based companies, they will simply will change the brand name.
Originally Posted by rearviewmirror
It's great GeoMan is stepping up with the voluntary recall.. What is DealExtreme doing about it? Anything? Are they even acknowledging the problem?
There is NO RECALL.
Geomangear is telling you not to use the product because there is an issue (yet to be explained).
For LEGAL reasons it's in their best interest to warn people about the "possible" (my word) danger here. Geoman if and when they do a recall are suppose to compensate the owners, sometimes only the original owners. This could mean an exchange new battery, $$$ or sadly nothing if there is no money at their end.
if this all comes down to the CPSC involvement and direction this WILL effect any company selling Magicshine in the US. Additionally this could cover anything bought through PayPal (maybe).
Deal Extreme is not a US company and is out of reach of the Federal Government agencies. HOWEVER, the shipping into the US of those products recalled or banned by the CPSC could be blocked from entry via USPS, Ship or freight forwarder.
My guess is that like all good CHinese based companies, they will simply will change the brand name.
You really are a moron. First you were unable to find the CPSC, and now this?
I'm willing to bet a paycheck that you think the US Gov masterminded the 9-11 attacks too.
Not trying to take this warning lightly, but will there really be any issues to keep using the batteries until a recall? If there were fires or explosions, I'm thinking it would be posted here either from the person it happened to or by word of mouth by now. I just bought mine in October and have been on one nightride with a few more coming up in the near future. Something like this could drag on especially with a Chinese company involved.
Geoman - what do you think the timeframe is for a resolution to this "problem"? It's Fall, Daylight savings time is gone, and it's time to roll............
I have a confession...I rode with both my Magicshines tonight and a buddy did too.
Here's the funny part...no explosions or closet burning fires (I asked the other guys to give a little whistle if they saw my pack on fire), just like the hundred other times I've cycled them. Sure, one lasts a little longer than the other but I paid $80.00 a piece a season ago.
Did I take them to work today and keep an eye on them when I was charging instead of just setting them on my bench all night? Yeah. Will I store them in a can or on some concrete instead of putting them back in the original box like I normally do? Yeah.
Geoman has to do what he has to do. I love that company and have only had great service but I'm still riding.
Bummer - I have two - ordered one last year and liked it so well I ordered another this year. I haven't received an email but fortunately kept my receipts.
Maybe this is the sign I've been waiting for to make me pull the trigger on that darkstar!
I have a confession...I rode with both my Magicshines tonight and a buddy did too.
Here's the funny part...no explosions or closet burning fires (I asked the other guys to give a little whistle if they saw my pack on fire), just like the hundred other times I've cycled them. Sure, one lasts a little longer than the other but I paid $80.00 a piece a season ago.
Did I take them to work today and keep an eye on them when I was charging instead of just setting them on my bench all night? Yeah. Will I store them in a can or on some concrete instead of putting them back in the original box like I normally do? Yeah.
Geoman has to do what he has to do. I love that company and have only had great service but I'm still riding.
I for one bought and recommended MS to many friends. I have one battery that stopped. I opened it it up, ( because of guys like MtbMacgyver), he never lets his ego, ( which could be huge 'cause of his knowledge), get in the way of encouraging guys like me to try our DIY. That battery had a loose wire, soldered it, good to go. But I digress....
I have had MANY night rides, that with out GEOMAN, (and Reed) I would never had. I am now trying to research how to re-build the battery packs I have or build new ones. I do not care if I ever get a refund from GEOMAN. I took a chance and knew the odds. GEOMAN has stepped up and absolutely done the right thing.
I have three running units. The dead battery will stay with me.
Thanks GEOMAN for all the night rides you have sent me on...
Okay, You win.
I'm an idiot and half the people here will cotinue to use their batteries
and the other half will consider to still use their batteries.
Whatever, call me when the dust settles.
Originally Posted by ajmelin
You really are a moron. First you were unable to find the CPSC, and now this?
I'm willing to bet a paycheck that you think the US Gov masterminded the 9-11 attacks too.
Okay, You win.
I'm an idiot and half the people here will cotinue to use their batteries
and the other half will consider to still use their batteries.
Whatever, call me when the dust settles.
well, actually your correct. Im sure the intentions are honorable but GEOMAN is simply a distributor, bottom line. Its a classic CYA that I would have done myself being in that position. The CHINA based company will just rebrand with some minor cosmetic changes. Probably already in the works.
I do hope Im wrong but just trying to be realistic.
A friends house burnt he claims. Come on that's second hand speculation. He also shows pics of a burnt light head? Maybe he left it plugged to the light head in a bag, it got hot being static and ignited something.
We threw half a dozen packs high into the air and drove over more with the car after the doco on TV about the aircraft LIPO battery fire.
Simulated a short in the terminals which lasted all of 2 seconds before the connections melted.
Too much speculation at the moment. As stated before. Geoman, DX and magicshine cells and PCB's are quite different to ours although you will probebly SPECULATE differently. LOL
I have a confession...I rode with both my Magicshines tonight and a buddy did too.
Here's the funny part...no explosions or closet burning fires (I asked the other guys to give a little whistle if they saw my pack on fire), just like the hundred other times I've cycled them. Sure, one lasts a little longer than the other but I paid $80.00 a piece a season ago.
Did I take them to work today and keep an eye on them when I was charging instead of just setting them on my bench all night? Yeah. Will I store them in a can or on some concrete instead of putting them back in the original box like I normally do? Yeah.
Geoman has to do what he has to do. I love that company and have only had great service but I'm still riding.
and taking deep breathes.
x2, and i sleep with mine under my pillow
Originally Posted by HamfisT
I understand that engineering has value in and of itself. But in the end, it's still just a pile of aluminum tubes.
Hey guys, I've been following the MagicShine threads for a while now. From what I understand, if I have this battery pack I should be ok:
but if I have this one, I should be concerned:
Correct? Or, should I be concerned about any MS battery pack? I have the second one (bought from GeoMan). Still no issues (got a good ride out of it last night). In fact, no issues that I know of here in Austin, where a bunch of riders got 'em. I'll keep following this thread.
Oh, GeoMan, my respect out to you for being proactive about this.
A friends house burnt he claims. Come on that's second hand speculation. He also shows pics of a burnt light head? Maybe he left it plugged to the light head in a bag, it got hot being static and ignited something.
We threw half a dozen packs high into the air and drove over more with the car after the doco on TV about the aircraft LIPO battery fire.
Simulated a short in the terminals which lasted all of 2 seconds before the connections melted.
Too much speculation at the moment. As stated before. Geoman, DX and magicshine cells and PCB's are quite different to ours although you will probebly SPECULATE differently. LOL
I feel much the same way you do. There has been waaaay more speculation than specifics. If there were actual details...and like you said no second-hand speculation I would not be taking a wait and see attitude.
I spoke with a friend last night and we both thought if these things have been burning down houses and blowing up planes and UPS trucks we would have heard about it sooner.
I can't claim to fully understand the CSPC process, but it is my understanding they do not take voluntary recalls lightly and they do not take weeks or months to complete if peoples houses are burning down.
just my .02 I know not everyone will agree, but it makes you think about whole process.
I have two, both are fully charged and since that seems to be the "dangerous" part I'm past that so I'll have a good ride this evening.
GeoMan stepped up big time and I appreciate that. I'm happy to support vendors that do the right thing.
My question, is there a suitable replacement pack that we can buy now, while we wait for GeoMan to get this resolved?
I charge my MS battery pack with a 15 min on / 15 min off cycle, as recommended by someone on another forum. Obviously it takes twice as long to charge, but if it's safer..
I charge my MS battery pack with a 15 min on / 15 min off cycle, as recommended by someone on another forum. Obviously it takes twice as long to charge, but if it's safer..
Hmmm...interesting....thanks for sharing. Possibly a safer way to charge the battery.
I charge my MS battery pack with a 15 min on / 15 min off cycle, as recommended by someone on another forum. Obviously it takes twice as long to charge, but if it's safer..
I bought a MS on Ebay a few weeks ago. Have there actually been any verified reports of fire, explosion or any unsafe incident caused by charging or even using a MS battery?
To tell you the truth, I'm feeling pretty lucky. Heck, I've never even broken my Fisher Hifi!
I just dug up the post over on candlepowerforums (it dates back to october last year).
the 15 min on / 15 min off method was actually recommended to prevent the charger catching fire:
quote:
'Or using the least invasive, least intensive, countermeasure and most passive solution in an ordinary digital timer, just set the digital timer for fifteen minutes of charging the battery pack which is then is cycled off for fifteen minutes off cycle and then fifteen minutes of charging, this is repeated until the battery is fully charged(lit up green); without causing the undesired thermal runaway conditions that can lead to a potential fire on the connected lithium ion charger. This is the most surefire way of preventing a potential overheating thermal runaway condition from developing in the first way(see below link).'
Ok so who has had a battery explode or catch alight, not a single forum I have read today has anyone stated anything of the sort so stop looking for something when it is not there. Geoman is a company in the States and you know how people are scared of being sued. I heard all they need is 20 faulty batteries and then it needs to be investigated now bet your ass they have sold thousands of these lights. All I have ever read about these lights has been great until the guessing and speculation in the last few days. If you have a light that has exploded or caught alight, lets hear about it, if not, get on your bike and get night riding!! I am keeping mine cos can't get anything better for that price. It still kicks butt!
Ok so who has had a battery explode or catch alight, not a single forum I have read today has anyone stated anything of the sort so stop looking for something when it is not there. Geoman is a company in the States and you know how people are scared of being sued. I heard all they need is 20 faulty batteries and then it needs to be investigated now bet your ass they have sold thousands of these lights. All I have ever read about these lights has been great until the guessing and speculation in the last few days. If you have a light that has exploded or caught alight, lets hear about it, if not, get on your bike and get night riding!! I am keeping mine cos can't get anything better for that price. It still kicks butt!
For the love of Dog, does anybody actually know what the issue is?
Is is blowing up during charging, or blowing up in storage, or blowing up during use? Is it specifically a battery fire, charger fire, of both?
Way too much speculation, and 'fixes' to problem we don't even know about yet.
This issue is starting to feel more like a McCarthy style witchhunt for communists than a real concern.
I have a real hard time believing that a 400ma charge current can generate enough heat to start a fire. I thought the issue was more about internal plate shorting.
A friends house burnt he claims. Come on that's second hand speculation. He also shows pics of a burnt light head? Maybe he left it plugged to the light head in a bag, it got hot being static and ignited something.
We threw half a dozen packs high into the air and drove over more with the car after the doco on TV about the aircraft LIPO battery fire.
Simulated a short in the terminals which lasted all of 2 seconds before the connections melted.
Too much speculation at the moment. As stated before. Geoman, DX and magicshine cells and PCB's are quite different to ours although you will probebly SPECULATE differently. LOL
Charger fire: http://www.singletrackworld.com/foru...r-catches-fire
But then, you use a different charger. In fact you marketing material warns people not to buy other products: "The charger is not an approved unit – if it causes a fire, your insurance could be jeopardised"
I bought 6 lights recently and I haven't got one either I think the CPSC will be going threw Geos database and they will be sending official recall notices, I'm not too worried we will get something soon enough.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
Thanks fellas, we have a recall page on the site now see the link below, we will place as much info in the FAQ section as we can, this page will be evolving so check back often. The matter is is being managed by the US Safety Commission, the flow of info is governed by their protocols. We are taking the battery quality issue very seriously, your safety is our number one priority. We are sending out info updates to the Recall page, Twitter and Facebook. Some folks reported they didn't receive the Interim Notice email, we believe it may have been blocked by spam filters, the same info is available on our recall page. There will be a number of notices sent via email and regular mail so folks won't miss out on info. Customers from The Singletrack Store will be receiving a similar notice shortly, the company has been closed down for 6 months so we are working on getting an email out with safety info shortly.
Correct Raku, we are sending out Interim Safety Info to help folks take precautionary measures, the Safety Commission will be working on further releases. We will continue to update our recall info page for everyone as soon as we have new info. Our email volume has increased ten-fold so we are trying to get as much info on that page as quickly as possible.
I bought 6 lights recently and I haven't got one either I think the CPSC will be going threw Geos database and they will be sending official recall notices, I'm not too worried we will get something soon enough.
thanks geoman for sending out information so willingly. I don't normally browse this board, so the e-mails were instrumental for me.
it is disappointing, though, because temperatures are good for commuting in my area finally and I've been wanting to commute, yet it gets dark so early.
guess I'll be driving at least until I can get replacement batteries.
Customers from The Singletrack Store will be receiving a similar notice shortly, the company has been closed down for 6 months so we are working on getting an email out with safety info shortly.
For all the curious battery geeks out there that want to understand some basics on how lithium ion batteries fail - The following link is a blurb I wrote a couple years ago in a RC car forum. It specifically applies to lithium polymer and RC car applications, but almost all of it is still valid here.
Hi Jim, you will be included with the GeoManGear recall we have obtained customer info for The Singletrack Store customers already. Notification will go out to STS customers shortly via US Safety Commission
Good to hear Geoman. I purchased two from you last year via that TucsonMTB promotion. Thanks for your follow up!
Thanks for the support, we want to get you all safely back out on the trails and roads as quickly as possible. Please check our recall page regularly for info updates and spread the word to any of your cycling friends that may have bought a Magicshine lighting system elsewhere, your safety is number one on our list.
Originally Posted by MOMtbiker
Geoman is top notch!
Thanks for standing behind what you sell, seems rare these days.
Hi Mike
GeoManGear was not retailing Magicshine lightsets prior to June 2009 you may simply be mistaken about the date. The recall covers every Magicshine battery that GeoManGear has ever distributed. Did you purchase directly from China prior to June 2009? We plan to make sure every GeoManGear customer is taken care of, you can email us directly [email protected] to make sure you are on our list
I have not received any email (just checked my spam folder) so I will email you. Thank you very much for being honest and pro-active with these batteries!
I respect what Geoman is doing, but I have to wonder... If there was a safety danger, and a recall coming...don't they have an obligation to let us know exactly what the danger is? It's not enough just to say not to use the batteries. The customers need to know if there is some kind of safety concern. I doubt the safety commission would tell you not to disclose this information. I don't know what the issue is, and I don't want to speculate, but let's look at worst case scenario.
If someone's house burned down in the meantime, or were severely burned because of a battery failure without knowing the specific dangers involved, what then?
When Toyota had the accelerator failure, they told you that the accelerator could get stuck and kill you. They didn't just say "don't drive your car, we'll tell you why later." People will wait and blow it off if they're not certain it's a serious issue that can result in injury.
Dell came out right away with their disclosure that certain laptop batteries could catch on fire and then issued the recall. This isn't new ground here.
I'll gladly stand by GeoManGear in the future and continue to order from them once they make this right, but it isn't right to keep people in the dark like this if there is indeed a legitimate safety concern. I doubt the Safety Commission would tell a company not to disclose this information that could result in consumer injuries.
I haven't had an issue with the battery that Geoman replaced for me about a month ago (first one didn't charge at all out of the box). So, I'm still riding with it. I mean, why should I worry about an potentially explosive fire hazard strapped right between my thighs?
Note, please, that was just a little gallows humor and I do not expect the thing to explode or start burning.
I respect what Geoman is doing, but I have to wonder... If there was a safety danger, and a recall coming...don't they have an obligation to let us know exactly what the danger is? It's not enough just to say not to use the batteries. The customers need to know if there is some kind of safety concern. I doubt the safety commission would tell you not to disclose this information. I don't know what the issue is, and I don't want to speculate, but let's look at worst case scenario.
If someone's house burned down in the meantime, or were severely burned because of a battery failure without knowing the specific dangers involved, what then?
When Toyota had the accelerator failure, they told you that the accelerator could get stuck and kill you. They didn't just say "don't drive your car, we'll tell you why later." People will wait and blow it off if they're not certain it's a serious issue that can result in injury.
Dell came out right away with their disclosure that certain laptop batteries could catch on fire and then issued the recall. This isn't new ground here.
I'll gladly stand by GeoManGear in the future and continue to order from them once they make this right, but it isn't right to keep people in the dark like this if there is indeed a legitimate safety concern. I doubt the Safety Commission would tell a company not to disclose this information that could result in consumer injuries.
Maybe Dell and Toyota corresponded with the CPSC or similar agency before we ever heard anything about the possible safety issues with their respective products. I bet Toyota and Dell *could* have come out publicly with information well before the recall was official. We are in an informal setting here and it sounds like Geoman is just providing us with a "heads up" if you will. I think Geoman also does not fully realize the extent of the problem since it sounds like there are outside consultants looking into it.
We are bound by the protocols of the US Safety Commission, once you notify them of a potential safety issue they literally take over control. We got approval to release an Interim Safety Notice via email, website and forums so that we could give advance warning on a potential safety issue for consumers. We have suggested that you discontinue using your batteries and store them outdoors in a safe manner for your own safety until we can get further approval from the US Safety Commission. More info with be forthcoming the very instant we have it. Please see our recall info page for updated info http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=recall
Originally Posted by BaeckerX1
I respect what Geoman is doing, but I have to wonder... If there was a safety danger, and a recall coming...don't they have an obligation to let us know exactly what the danger is? It's not enough just to say not to use the batteries. The customers need to know if there is some kind of safety concern. I doubt the safety commission would tell you not to disclose this information. I don't know what the issue is, and I don't want to speculate, but let's look at worst case scenario.
If someone's house burned down in the meantime, or were severely burned because of a battery failure without knowing the specific dangers involved, what then?
When Toyota had the accelerator failure, they told you that the accelerator could get stuck and kill you. They didn't just say "don't drive your car, we'll tell you why later." People will wait and blow it off if they're not certain it's a serious issue that can result in injury.
Dell came out right away with their disclosure that certain laptop batteries could catch on fire and then issued the recall. This isn't new ground here.
I'll gladly stand by GeoManGear in the future and continue to order from them once they make this right, but it isn't right to keep people in the dark like this if there is indeed a legitimate safety concern. I doubt the Safety Commission would tell a company not to disclose this information that could result in consumer injuries.
I stopped using my lights. I have two which are my only lights currently. I put them outside in a metal can for storage. Bummer, night riding season is here. I will wait a few more days and if an e mail does not arrive, I will e mail geoman
Sounds like Geoman is good people and going above and beyond, but I'm still a little confused. I assume that all MS batteries built within a certain time frame will have the issue, not just those sold by Geoman.
So...what's the process? Does the CPSC do an investigation then if warranted compell the manufacturer to issue a product recall?
I bought mine from an Ebay seller a couple of weeks ago. I'm not really worried and will continue to use it, but just curious.
I have used a Dinotte battery on the magicshine I put on my daughter's bike. It seems to be fine. I have also interchanged the magicshine charger with Dinotte batteries. All you magicshine lovers out there might consider a Dinotte battery, and just run it off the magicshine charger and hope for the best. Or better yet, plunk down the money for great Dinotte lights.
Nothing bad to say about Dinotte lights.
My Magicshine front and rear lights are my main commuter lights so I am still using them. I'm charging my batteries in a metal can with a lid (small dent for cord to go through) in my presence, then I take the can outside and leave it till morning when I grab a battery for my commute. In the evening, I remove the battery from the bike and put it back in the can, which is left outside on concrete. I don't think the odds of my battery catching fire is great, but I like my house.
Didn't get an email, I think my spam filter dumped it in the junk folder and I just deleted it along with the 60 other junk emails I got that day... Will have to keep closer tabs on that.
Thanks for the heads-up Geoman, it's good to see a responsible vendor do what is right. Now I gotta go take my Tundra in to check for rust-through on the frame that makes the spare tire fall out...
Thanks for the support, please keep an eye on our recall page or signup for Twitter or Facebook updates so we can get you instant updates on the progress of this issue with the Safety Commission. http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=recall
Originally Posted by Tzvia
My Magicshine front and rear lights are my main commuter lights so I am still using them. I'm charging my batteries in a metal can with a lid (small dent for cord to go through) in my presence, then I take the can outside and leave it till morning when I grab a battery for my commute. In the evening, I remove the battery from the bike and put it back in the can, which is left outside on concrete. I don't think the odds of my battery catching fire is great, but I like my house.
Didn't get an email, I think my spam filter dumped it in the junk folder and I just deleted it along with the 60 other junk emails I got that day... Will have to keep closer tabs on that.
Thanks for the heads-up Geoman, it's good to see a responsible vendor do what is right. Now I gotta go take my Tundra in to check for rust-through on the frame that makes the spare tire fall out...
Hey guys, I've been following the MagicShine threads for a while now. From what I understand, if I have this battery pack I should be ok:
but if I have this one, I should be concerned:
Correct? Or, should I be concerned about any MS battery pack? I have the second one (bought from GeoMan). Still no issues (got a good ride out of it last night). In fact, no issues that I know of here in Austin, where a bunch of riders got 'em. I'll keep following this thread.
Oh, GeoMan, my respect out to you for being proactive about this.
.
Nando, what is that first battery you have posted?? no one answered your question if it is one of the ones affected... I too have purchased from DX - I'm going to email them and see what they have to say, I'll post back.
That second battery is the original Series I battery, it is definitely included in our concerned list of Magicshine batteries, if you bought it from us you will be on our list for recall remedies.
Originally Posted by osteo
Nando, what is that first battery you have posted?? no one answered your question if it is one of the ones affected... I too have purchased from DX - I'm going to email them and see what they have to say, I'll post back.
Thanks, GEOMAN! In this world of dollars and cents, it is rare when someone takes responsibility for their product. It is even more rare when a distributor takes responsibility for their suppliers products. Let's hope every other company across the globe is taking notes...
I'll be with the dare-devils/ crazy folk who will continue to use ours until signs of danger or replacement battery received. In my case, I use every weekday evening for my commute.
Today, I'm taking a precaution that I never had before. I asked the maintenance guy in my building at work for something metal to charge batteries in. He gave me an electrical box - where my magic-shine batt is now happily charging.
GMG, can I just send in my batteries, or do we need RA#'s, etc? I have three that I have purchased in the last 6 months, and one charger pooched out in the first month.
Thanks!
1. A warranty problem on a non-battery product within the 90 day warranty period.
2. If you have questions about other products we are currently selling.
3. To request a refund for a lightset purchased within the 90 day warranty period.
Does that mean lightsets sold in the last 90 days are eligible for a refund since the battery is defective? I am not sure that is what I want to do, but just wanted to see what options are available.
I'll be with the dare-devils/ crazy folk who will continue to use ours until signs of danger or replacement battery received. In my case, I use every weekday evening for my commute.
Today, I'm taking a precaution that I never had before. I asked the maintenance guy in my building at work for something metal to charge batteries in. He gave me an electrical box - where my magic-shine batt is now happily charging.
That is a pretty common 4" box. The lid for it will set you back like a buck fitty at any hardware store, and it can just be clipped on with no tools.
So how is everyone "SAFELY STORING" the batteries outside? I thought about a 1 gal metal paint can w/ a lid, but I thought that possibly be just as dangerous if pressure built up inside IF something happened!
So how is everyone "SAFELY STORING" the batteries outside? I thought about a 1 gal metal paint can w/ a lid, but I thought that possibly be just as dangerous if pressure built up inside IF something happened!
Chris
I like the electrical box idea. PAint can would work just drill a few relief holes in it. You cold even stuff them with steel wool if you were worried about making a flame throwing paint can..
I have mine sitting in my kiln in the garage those fire bricks can handle at least 2600 degrees i think that will work. Im not too worried just trying to build some replacement batteries .
Last edited by Rakuman; 11-19-2010 at 07:36 PM.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
If you guys are going to store them outside consider putting them in your BBQ pit/grill.
That should protect them from the elements
Just remember to take them out before you light it.
I like the electrical box idea. PAint can would work just drill a few relief holes in it. You cold even stuff them with steel wool if you were worried about making a flame throwing paint can..
Roar
you know steel wool is flammable right?
...Not to mention the chance of a fiber finding it's way into the plug and shorting...
Anyone know what the symptoms of a bad battery vs. a head unit/switch?
My 1400 (that I JUST bought) is dead and for the life of me I can't find my multi-meter to verify if it's the battery.
One thing though, is that when I plug the battery into the charger (unplugged from the wall) the LED indicator lights green.
The LED for the switch, however does not light, and of course, neither do the mains.
GeoMan, I can still get a replacement head/switch right? if that is the case?
LOL, thank goodness for the interwebz to point this out. I was more thinking heavy gauge like below. Ill have to put a disclaimer on my sig for now on....
If you guys are going to store them outside consider putting them in your BBQ pit/grill.
That should protect them from the elements
Just remember to take them out before you light it.
Great tip! If they catch fire is there any reason we shouldn't grill a burger over them?
LOL, thank goodness for the interwebz to point this out. I was more thinking heavy gauge like below. Ill have to put a disclaimer on my sig for now on....
NO! stuff it with carbon fibers - it's MUUUUCH lighter!
So far storage for mine is right here on my desk... actually I have done one better and cut the battery case open to see which batteries are actually inside:
Not much I can find with that serial number via Google, but my guess as per this whole thread are that those batteries fall into the non-protected category.
In talking to a buddy of mine that has a bit of a light fetish! (he's one of those 100mile ultramarathoner's) we got to thinking on why not change out that battery for a protected 18650? as they do make them. (bottom one in the pic)
My thought was to then put the 4 18650's into one of those 4 battery holders and this way they can be popped out and charged individually, but as you can see the 18650 is longer than a AA
This online store actually has a rather long Safety Instructions and Warnings section on those batteries: Battery Space Warnings
Well, they do have holders for 18650 on that site - and then I came across an entire section of pre-made 18650's in various configurations and lots of them are Protected.
I gotta go back and read the stat's on the MS light and see what it requires.
Anybody know what the configuration of the batteries are for the MS light? I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread (or I read it somewhere...).
So how is everyone "SAFELY STORING" the batteries outside? I thought about a 1 gal metal paint can w/ a lid, but I thought that possibly be just as dangerous if pressure built up inside IF something happened!
Chris
Outside? Well I guess you could as long as you have a place that's dry. Just remember If the batteries get real cold ( freezing ) that is not real good for Li-ion cells. Not only that, but if the cells get real cold, wait until they warm up before recharging. Personally, I see nothing wrong with charging and storing inside as long as you have a metal container...Ideas: rectangular cake pan, pie pan, old fry pan, old boy Scout cook kit...etc, etc..I don't think a lid is necessary but whatever...a smoke detector near-by might be nice for those really paranoid about fire and such. As for me, I'm more in danger by my old plug-in heat pad. One day I'll forget to unplug it and ..Poof...up in flames.
There is something weird going on with the https://www.geomangear.com/ website. I followed the link in Geomangear's singature and even googled it, but I went there to look up the recall info and got a sort of generic web search page. Maybe they are mid-update or something...
Maybe recalling all MS batteries ever sold is a little financially unsettling....
Considering the battery appears to be half the cost of a light set, it would seem to be a huge problem. This is not a good development. Maybe it is time to study the DIY battery thread.
I think they have been hacked
or like someone else said they could be doing maintenance or switching servers
I tried to get to another page on his site and this came up
You have asked Firefox to connect
securely to www.geomangear.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
Normally, when you try to connect securely,
sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are
going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verifie
What Should I do
If you usually connect to
this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is
trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't cont
Technical Details www.geomangear.com uses an invalid security certificate.
The certificate is not trusted because it is self-signed.
The certificate is only valid for localhost.localdomain
(Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer)
I Understand the Risks
Last edited by Rakuman; 11-24-2010 at 12:00 PM.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
Just tried to email them to let them know and their email address is not working HUMMMM that's interesting.
its coming back undeliverable I kind of doubt that they are skipping town if I was going to do something like that I would leave the website and email up for appearances for at least a couple of months
personally i think everything is all good
and they just got hacked or are doing maintenance
Last edited by Rakuman; 11-24-2010 at 12:58 PM.
I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking
Maybe one of the techs at the hosting site was charging a couple of MS batteries in the server room and they burst into flames and burned the entire rack?
seems to be fixed. Maybe their web hosting server went down or something. He's probably being hosted on the sane physical server as 200 other websites.
Now, however, the safety issue is all but confirmed by Geoman. I understand his position in this and not being at liberty to freely give details, but it seems like here on MTBR we have had zero first hand accounts, and one second hand account of this fire hazard. I'd like to be able to use my new purchase that just arrived today, but I guess I'm questioning exactly what the extent of the safety concern is with these batteries. It seems like many have used these without problem, and if some simple precautions can lessen the chances of having a problem, then I will go ahead and use the light for now. Anyone who feels knowledgeable about this subject or LiB's in general, please comment and respond. Thanks.
This all part of a conspiracy perpetrated by members of the lighting industry who are afraid of losing their share of the market to MagicShine and Geoman. The "battery safety problem" does not really exist.
seems to be fixed. Maybe their web hosting server went down or something. He's probably being hosted on the sane physical server as 200 other websites.
seems to be fixed. Maybe their web hosting server went down or something. He's probably being hosted on the sane physical server as 200 other websites.
If I am not mistaken, the site is now in a different format. I am guessing it was down while they migrated to a new layout. Site migration should never happen that way, but oh well.
I am sure glad I purchase my Magicshine lights from someone else that was smart enough to spec a better battery. Too bad though, all this bad press, and the guy I bought them off is not moving them. Oh well, at least mine are fine.
The truth is, the batteries don't balance correctly during charging and discharging. Over time this leads to one or more cells becoming unstable. Sometimes a pack has poor life, and other times it may swell and fail even catastrophically.
I don't view this as any conspiracy, it is just an unfortunate miscalculation from design intent. Hopefully a more robust charging and balancing system are in place soon that will allow us to fully utilize these great value lights.
Hopefully a more robust charging and balancing system are in place soon that will allow us to fully utilize these great value lights.
There is. Read up on Li-Po or Li-ion batteries on one of the many links that have already been posted or go in the DIY Lighting forum. Tons of suggestions and ideas in there.
I am sure glad I purchase my Magicshine lights from someone else that was smart enough to spec a better battery. Too bad though, all this bad press, and the guy I bought them off is not moving them. Oh well, at least mine are fine.
How do you know your seller "spec'd a better battery"? Because he told you he did? Because you haven't had a problem? LOL!
I got mine from Geo last year, no problem at all. What does this mean? Nothing. Some batteries are failing, some aren't.
and I know the difference between the two batteries dumb ass!
Just curious, but what brand/make/model/style etc was the battery? Was it a Dinotte or something similar? I must come with a compatible plug and I'm not sure how many systems out there use the same pop plug as the MS.
Just curious, but what brand/make/model/style etc was the battery? Was it a Dinotte or something similar? I must come with a compatible plug and I'm not sure how many systems out there use the same pop plug as the MS.
You really are a moron. First you were unable to find the CPSC, and now this?
I'm willing to bet a paycheck that you think the US Gov masterminded the 9-11 attacks too.
They did. 3 straight down collapses at freefall speeds.... and you never went to the moon! lol And the Bliderberger's are yours (and ours) real government.
But can we keep that **** out of this? It's unnecessary!
I have Ballistic batteries making me some new packs, and getting me a correct charger. I will report back when there done. They are also going to make me some bigger packs for the endurance races, I am excited about that.
I have Ballistic batteries making me some new packs, and getting me a correct charger. I will report back when there done. They are also going to make me some bigger packs for the endurance races, I am excited about that.
I'd be interested in this I've got some 24hr races coming up this season.
And yet it is a post that will continue to be bumped until the story of the magicshine battery and charger is played out....
Incidentally, my charger for my magicshine doesn't go green anymore.... I still seem to get a full charge and near claimed run times, but..... I now have no way of telling when the pack is charged.
Geoman, what is going on? Almost two months and not a word. I bought the lights and in less than 90 days, you recalled batteries and one of my chargers died the day before. The original Geoman would have never left us hanging with no word. I am getting frustrated with this. I bough many things from Jay, because of his exemplary customer service. The cheap lights worried my, and I placed my trust in Geomangear. Now, where am I?
"The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie
Geoman, what is going on? Almost two months and not a word. I bought the lights and in less than 90 days, you recalled batteries and one of my chargers died the day before. The original Geoman would have never left us hanging with no word. I am getting frustrated with this. I bough many things from Jay, because of his exemplary customer service. The cheap lights worried my, and I placed my trust in Geomangear. Now, where am I?
+2 - while your light-head replacement went w/out a hitch, I still need a battery...
An update saying where you guys are at would help.
This was posted about a week ago by a member on another forum stating he received an email from Geoman stating:
"We are now in the testing phase of the new battery manufacturing. If all goes well and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission approves the replacement battery, we will be able to start production after the first of the year. It's going to be a really nice battery and a dramatic improvement over the current battery pack in terms of quality and performance.
Please check our Recall webpage regularily for updates:"
I haven't received ONE email from Geoman YET regarding this recall. I even sent an email with my info to him when I first read about the recall to make sure he had it. Who has received an email from him?
He needs to post in this thread. He had the good service to start it, he needs to step up.
I never got an email. I forwarded my emailed confirmation of purchase, stating that I wanted to make certain I was on the list. He did respond to that, told me the list processor was working through the list. I never got an email. I have since sent two emails and been ignored.
That is why I came back to this thread. I want and deserve accountability and answers.
"The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie
This was posted about a week ago by a member on another forum stating he received an email from Geoman stating:
"We are now in the testing phase of the new battery manufacturing. If all goes well and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission approves the replacement battery, we will be able to start production after the first of the year. It's going to be a really nice battery and a dramatic improvement over the current battery pack in terms of quality and performance.
Please check our Recall webpage regularily for updates:"
I haven't received ONE email from Geoman YET regarding this recall. I even sent an email with my info to him when I first read about the recall to make sure he had it. Who has received an email from him?
Chris
I received email after seeing this thread and emailing him to ask if he had my info. Still using my battery and charger (carefully) but want/need replacement that I know I don't have to worry about!
And yet here in the UK, Raleigh continue to sell the light as the Raleigh Special Products Astrum. No recall on the Magicshine, or the Astrum, or whaver other name the Magicshine sells under. And I would say that the UK is as tight on things of this nature than the US...
And yet here in the UK, Raleigh continue to sell the light as the Raleigh Special Products Astrum. No recall on the Magicshine, or the Astrum, or whaver other name the Magicshine sells under. And I would say that the UK is as tight on things of this nature than the US...
What problem? There never was a problem.
Confirmed fires causing property damage is not a problem??
3. What are the issues with the batteries?
We have received three reports of the original Magicshine MJ-808/MJ-818 battery pack (i.e., the one that is shrink-wrapped and enclosed in a nylon-velcro sleeve) overheating and causing fires. The fires have resulted in some property damage, but thankfully none of the reported incidents involved any personal injuries. Although we have not received any reports of overheating or fires associated with the Magicshine battery pack that is enclosed in a metal container inserted into a fabric sleeve (included with MJ-816 lightsets and more recent MJ-808 lightsets), we have the same safety concerns about the battery packs in the metal containers. Our engineering consultants have determined that these two Magicshine battery packs raise potential safety and reliability concerns (e.g., the inclusion of different lithium-ion cell models within the same battery pack).
"The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie
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Originally Posted by elsanto
PLUS geomangear won't have to take any hit on them either.
and I would have to say that gticlay is a decent guy. 
)
Well I guess you could as long as you have a place that's dry. Just remember If the batteries get real cold ( freezing ) that is not real good for Li-ion cells. Not only that, but if the cells get real cold, wait until they warm up before recharging. Personally, I see nothing wrong with charging and storing inside as long as you have a metal container...Ideas: rectangular cake pan, pie pan, old fry pan, old boy Scout cook kit...etc, etc..I don't think a lid is necessary but whatever...a smoke detector near-by might be nice for those really paranoid about fire and such. As for me, I'm more in danger by my old plug-in heat pad. 
I followed the link in Geomangear's singature and even googled it, but I went there to look up the recall info and got a sort of generic web search page. Maybe they are mid-update or something...
