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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Confirmed fires causing property damage is not a problem??

    http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=recall

    (underscored text is my addition)
    Well obviously there is not an OFFICIAL problem, because Raleigh (bigger than Geoman) isn't issuing a recall. Nor has any official government body issued a recall. I just think you are all getting your panties in a twist over nothing. Maybe Geoman thought it best to offer a replacement batt pack just in case... Maybe Geoman wants to corner the market on Magicshines with better batt packs... but how many thousands of these lights have been sold? I would imagine Raleigh would have been the first to recall.. unless they specced their own battery pack. Looks the same though.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Well obviously there is not an OFFICIAL problem, because Raleigh (bigger than Geoman) isn't issuing a recall. Nor has any official government body issued a recall. I just think you are all getting your panties in a twist over nothing. Maybe Geoman thought it best to offer a replacement batt pack just in case... Maybe Geoman wants to corner the market on Magicshines with better batt packs... but how many thousands of these lights have been sold? I would imagine Raleigh would have been the first to recall.. unless they specced their own battery pack. Looks the same though.
    I do not think there is an International recall "program". In the USA we have the Consumer Product Safety Commission that is about as OFFICIAL as it gets for us, and it is involved in this recall. Most of us Americans take this seriously (the idea of a battery igniting in my back jersey pocket, or on the top tube of my bike, or in my house on the charger gives me some valid concerns).

    Maybe the UK has something different. If you are not worried, go ride your bike, stop being a troll and looking for an argument.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I do not think there is an International recall "program". In the USA we have the Consumer Product Safety Commission that is about as OFFICIAL as it gets for us, and it is involved in this recall. Most of us Americans take this seriously (the idea of a battery igniting in my back jersey pocket, or on the top tube of my bike, or in my house on the charger gives me some valid concerns).

    Maybe the UK has something different. If you are not worried, go ride your bike, stop being a troll and looking for an argument.
    From what I understand the CPS you mention isn't involved yet officially and they might not get involved in a recall at all.. Geoman informed the CPS that they (Geoman) wanted to recall not vice versa. Geoman asked that the CPS investigate...

    My Magicshine battery pack doesn't even get warm when I charge it.

    I am not being a troll. I am pointing out that this whole situation isn't really a situation at all........ yet. And it might never be one.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Well obviously there is not an OFFICIAL problem, because Raleigh (bigger than Geoman) isn't issuing a recall. Nor has any official government body issued a recall. I just think you are all getting your panties in a twist over nothing. Maybe Geoman thought it best to offer a replacement batt pack just in case... Maybe Geoman wants to corner the market on Magicshines with better batt packs... but how many thousands of these lights have been sold? I would imagine Raleigh would have been the first to recall.. unless they specced their own battery pack. Looks the same though.
    Well, my battery is OFFICIALLY whack - and I think the cause of my first lighthead burning out.

    How about the others too (on this board) that have had their cells go unbalanced?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  5. #205
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    2 out of balance packs here.

    If it walks like a duck and quakes like a duck, It's probably a troll, ummm, I mean duck.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Well, my battery is OFFICIALLY whack - and I think the cause of my first lighthead burning out.

    How about the others too (on this board) that have had their cells go unbalanced?
    It's my understanding that all packs of indiviual batteries will become unbalanced.

    That's why some people place balancing leads inbetween parallel cells or individual cells.

    I'm not saying that the batterypack with the magicshine was the best battery in the world. I'm just saying the fire issue is ovetrplayed I feel based on the weak circumstantial evidence given thus far. Also, out of balanced packs.... that's just a feature of lithium ion packs aint it?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Also, out of balanced packs.... that's just a feature of lithium ion packs aint it?
    Unbalancing (particularly one lame cell and one over-charged to compensate)is one of the first steps to thermal runaway aint it
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Unbalancing (particularly one lame cell and one over-charged to compensate)is one of the first steps to thermal runaway aint it
    ...which is by no means an issue only associated with magicshine innit?

    Nice try at patronising moi. Only I was using the slang aint in a knees up mother brown fashion innit.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    ...which is by no means an issue only associated with magicshine innit?
    There seems do be a disproportionate amount of these MS battery packs that are unbalanced - innit?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    ...which is by no means an issue only associated with magicshine innit?

    Nice try at patronising moi. Only I was using the slang aint in a knees up mother brown fashion innit.
    So you must be a chinese manufacturer or a dealer making money from Magicshine since you want to downplay this so much and poo poo it as not a problem. What is your stake in this?
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    So you must be a chinese manufacturer or a dealer making money from Magicshine since you want to downplay this so much and poo poo it as not a problem. What is your stake in this?
    None other than trying to keep a balanced perspective. These scare stories are scaring people away from a great little light. Unless there is real concern, this shouldn't be the case. I bought this light when they first started to be discussed on here. My magicshine or magicshine CLONE (same box, same design, but no magicshine logo on the box) has been fantastic.

    I am currently shopping around for another light for my other bike... might try Gemini or Bikeray next... or maybe just another magicshine...

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    None other than trying to keep a balanced perspective. These scare stories are scaring people away from a great little light. Unless there is real concern, this shouldn't be the case. I bought this light when they first started to be discussed on here. My magicshine or magicshine CLONE (same box, same design, but no magicshine logo on the box) has been fantastic.

    I am currently shopping around for another light for my other bike... might try Gemini or Bikeray next... or maybe just another magicshine...
    Are your light within the recall dates? Where did you buy it?
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    None other than trying to keep a balanced perspective. These scare stories are scaring people away from a great little light. Unless there is real concern, this shouldn't be the case. I bought this light when they first started to be discussed on here. My magicshine or magicshine CLONE (same box, same design, but no magicshine logo on the box) has been fantastic.

    I am currently shopping around for another light for my other bike... might try Gemini or Bikeray next... or maybe just another magicshine...
    Scare stories??? WTF?
    Why would any sane company VOLUNTARILY recall hundreds(thousands?) of batteries and end up loosing GOBS of $$ if there weren't a concern?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Scare stories??? WTF?
    Why would any sane company VOLUNTARILY recall hundreds(thousands?) of batteries and end up loosing GOBS of $$ if there weren't a concern?
    Well, I don't know the answer to that question. Suffice to say that it isn't inconceivable that Geoman may benefit from being known as the sole US distributor of a 'safe' magicshine; the inference being of course that those sold through other channels are unsafe. Plus your sueing culture might have resulted in a risk assesment that concluded that replacement battery packs at the sellers expense was seen as a better prospect than paying out a horrendous figure should an horrendous fire occur.

    I still think a lot of you are getting your panties in a twist over nowt much at all.

    Currently this whole issue is a storm in a teacup.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    ...
    I still think a lot of you are getting your panties in a twist over nowt much at all.
    my "panties in a twist over not much at all"?

    Did you miss the part where I said I have a BAD battery?
    or others?


    I guess having a defective part is no biggie to you.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    my "panties in a twist over not much at all"?

    Did you miss the part where I said I have a BAD battery?
    or others?


    I guess having a defective part is no biggie to you.
    I guess it wouldn't be a biggie to me no. I've had the light about 1.5 years and (touch wood) it is still going strong. The light cost me about £60 including delivery from HK. A Lupine here in the UK costs 5 times that. I can buy 4 x 3000mAh name brand (Sony, Ultrafire etc) 18650 batteries for less than £20) and solder up my own pack.. or buy another MS pack for £30.... and I have still spent £200 less than a Lupine for essentially the same light.

    I would still consider my Chinese 900L light to be a bargain even if the battery pack failed. Indeed, my charger no longer tells me the battery has charged, the LED stays red, but I don't feel cheated in any way. I still get almost 3 hours on high and 8 hours on low and 14 hours on flashing...

    I'll be the first to eat my words if the pack catches fire. But even then, I wouldn't feel cheated. Concerned for others, but not cheated. Mine's been a little gem.

    Now I like to buy British and Western whenever I can. Mavic, DT, Hope.. but I never saw the Magicshine as a Lupine copy. The fact it uses the same LED and looks similar is purely coincidental IMO.

    Washing machines all look the same!

  17. #217
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    dont bother 9speed people on this an every other forum are easily influenced by "senior" members.

  18. #218
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    sorry guys, new to the whole MS thing. I saw this light on ebay sold by Nova (seems he is a respectable dealer). Is this legit. He claims his batteries are better/safe.

    Linky


    Thanks for the info

  19. #219
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    Kev, I'd wait for Geo to get the new battery pack sorted if I were you.
    FYI, email from Geo:

    The "new" batteries offered by other Magicshine dealers have not been tested in the U.S. and in our opinion may not be an improvement in safety or performance.

    We are now in the testing phase of the new battery manufacturing. If all goes well and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission approves the replacement battery, we will be able to start production after the first of the year. It's going to be a really nice battery and a dramatic improvement over the current battery pack in terms of quality and performance.

    Please check our Recall webpage regularily for updates:
    http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=recall

    Thanks,
    Geoman

  20. #220
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    At this point, it is not a recall since he has not recalled anything. It is just a warning that the batteries should not be used. It is a very disorganized recall.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    At this point, it is not a recall since he has not recalled anything. It is just a warning that the batteries should not be used. It is a very disorganized recall.
    And THAT is a very interesting point.

    D
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  22. #222
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    Got my Batteries from Pat at Ballistic yesterday he made me some 7800mah pack we will see how they do. They are supposed to be a much nicer cell. I plugged them in and the light seems much brighter if thats possible.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunion
    Got my Batteries from Pat at Ballistic yesterday he made me some 7800mah pack we will see how they do. They are supposed to be a much nicer cell. I plugged them in and the light seems much brighter if thats possible.
    How much did it cost? If reasonable, I probably won't wait for the new battery from Geoman.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnilocano
    How much did it cost? If reasonable, I probably won't wait for the new battery from Geoman.
    + 1, but interested in your thoughts and review - also about the charger, etc...

    I'm not doing any night riding up here right now so can wait though... riding outside in -20C is not my kind of fun!

    D
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  25. #225
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    I'm eyeing that Magicshine battery with the alu case and fuel gauge. Some place online is doing them for $35 landed. I figure even if it had crap cells, the aluminum case and electronics can be rebuilt with good cells and still have a sweet battery.

    For now, my homebrew 2 cell light battery for the helmet light is working fine, and my 4 cell stock magicshine pack is working. I still have one dead Magicshine battery I would like to replace. I'm just taking extra care to recharge my one good MS battery in a metal case or a ceramic flower pot outside my back door. I think the risk is minimal if precautions are taken.

    It would be nice if Geoman got a solution for us on this, but honestly... I feel like I got such a good deal on the light kit that having to shell out more money for a battery pack and possibly a better charger, I'm still coming out way ahead.

    I feel way less hosed than I did with my NiteRider halogen lights and their frickin' $170 3 pound battery pack (and no, I didn't pay it. I rebuilt it myself for good percentage of the money I paid for the whole Magicshine kit... and my two Magicshines kick out way more light than my two NiteRiders and with 3 times the runtime. Not bagging on NiteRider so much. LEDs are just that much better all around. LEDs are so much more efficient that you only need 1/3 the battery as a halogen, saving weight and cost. I'm really stoked that we finally have an affordable light that works really well, and I can't believe the expense what we used to put up with just to do a night ride.






    Last edited by pimpbot; 01-13-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  26. #226
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    I'm not sure I like the aluminium battery with the blue backlight.

    Is it too big to hang from the handlebar?

    I hear some of the DX magicshines now no longer have a fuel guage colour change switch?!

    Wheras the new 3 and 4 mode magicshines do....

  27. #227
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    Dunno...

    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    I'm not sure I like the aluminium battery with the blue backlight.

    Is it too big to hang from the handlebar?

    I hear some of the DX magicshines now no longer have a fuel guage colour change switch?!

    Wheras the new 3 and 4 mode magicshines do....
    I strap my battery to the underside of the top tube anyway. Not enough room on my stem for the strap because my Garmin GPS mount is in the way.

    I just like the idea of having a better fuel gauge. I also like that you can get to the cells inside for future replacement (I think).

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev0153
    sorry guys, new to the whole MS thing. I saw this light on ebay sold by Nova (seems he is a respectable dealer). Is this legit. He claims his batteries are better/safe.

    Linky


    Thanks for the info
    I bought two lights from this guy a few months ago. Have charged them up and used them about five times, and so far I'm very satisfied. I know another guy who did the same and has used them many more times than I....he's happy too.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by osteo
    I'd be interested in this I've got some 24hr races coming up this season.

    Thanks,
    D

    OK first run on the new Balistic pack ran for 5 hours on high with my 1400 with all the lights on. Pat said they should see even better times after about 6 cycles.

    Here is a link to his site.
    http://www.ballisticbatteries.com/Ba..._Home_Page.cfm

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunion
    OK first run on the new Balistic pack ran for 5 hours on high with my 1400 with all the lights on. Pat said they should see even better times after about 6 cycles.

    Here is a link to his site.
    http://www.ballisticbatteries.com/Ba..._Home_Page.cfm
    Nice! Did you get the stock, upgrade, or super version?

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Nice! Did you get the stock, upgrade, or super version?
    And, does it work with the old charger?

    I wonder if they'll do discounts for a group buy.

  32. #232
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    Grunion,

    I visited the Ballistic Battery website and found they are offering a hand-built by them replacement for the MS battery with the original connector. It's only $40. They claim it's the same size and the same capacity. Seems like a good deal to me. I'd also think the original charger would work as well.

    I'm in no hurry as I now have a Baja Designs Strykr. While I believe Geoman will make good on the recall, if he doesn't this is definitely an option to look at. The MS light head is just too good to not spend $40 to make it work right.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Hopper
    While I believe Geoman will make good on the recall, if he doesn't this is definitely an option to look at. The MS light head is just too good to not spend $40 to make it work right.
    I hope, but I am loosing faith. I got to know Jay, the original GeoMan pretty well, bought quite a bit from him, and worked with him on GPSs. Almost did an associate deal with him on product. Now I am glad I did not, since the new guy is proving very irresponsible in not responding to emails or post here.
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  34. #234
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    and the magicshine non-issue continues.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Hopper
    Grunion,

    I visited the Ballistic Battery website and found they are offering a hand-built by them replacement for the MS battery with the original connector. It's only $40. They claim it's the same size and the same capacity. Seems like a good deal to me. I'd also think the original charger would work as well.

    I'm in no hurry as I now have a Baja Designs Strykr. While I believe Geoman will make good on the recall, if he doesn't this is definitely an option to look at. The MS light head is just too good to not spend $40 to make it work right.
    I have friends who have bought RC batteries from this guy and they are good batteries at a good price. I agree that the MS light-head is too good not to spend a little money for a new battery and be able to use your light.
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    and the magicshine non-issue continues.
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  37. #237
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    Yep, not really an issue for me. That battery for $40 looks pretty good, and would look even better if they can spell right...would make me more confident buying something from them. But for now my batteries continue to work fine. I charge them in the garage on a concrete floor away from any flammable materials, and never overnight. I then unplug and store the batteries in a metal bucket when not in use. If/when the batteries start to go downhill, I'll likely purchase an entire kit from Gemini Lights.
    "Got everything you need?"

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    and the magicshine non-issue continues.
    Non-issue? I haven't had any safety problems with my MS, but 30 mins on high with a full charge is definitely an issue. Especially after less than 60 rechargings, regular weekly use/charging, and not abusing it...

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Hopper
    Non-issue? I haven't had any safety problems with my MS, but 30 mins on high with a full charge is definitely an issue. Especially after less than 60 rechargings, regular weekly use/charging, and not abusing it...
    He suffers from severe recto-cranial inversion; does not think that fires causing property damage are an issue. There are exchanges above where he says that. He is a troll in most all the light threads for the last few months, if you search his posts.
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  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I hope, but I am loosing faith. I got to know Jay, the original GeoMan pretty well, bought quite a bit from him, and worked with him on GPSs. Almost did an associate deal with him on product. Now I am glad I did not, since the new guy is proving very irresponsible in not responding to emails or post here.
    I hate to say this but I'm almost to the point where I have to agree with what you are saying. I hate to dis Geoman but it has been some time since the ( dealer inspired ) recall was made. ( no recall was offered by MagicShine ) Now if you're going to recall something then you need to replace it with something else. You can only make the customer wait so long. In the mean time other dealers are offering cheap lights with better batteries ( compatible with the MS ). I think the Geoman customers have waited long enough. You can only be patient for so long before you realize it is time to cut your losses and move on.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    .... since the new guy is proving very irresponsible in not responding to emails or post here.
    I have emailed Geomangear multiple times with questions since the recall began, and have always recieved prompt replies. I've used the "contact us" link on their website.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    I have emailed Geomangear multiple times with questions since the recall began, and have always recieved prompt replies. I've used the "contact us" link on their website.
    He responded to my first email about the recall, I forwarded my MS lights purchase receipt to make sure I was on it, and he replied. I have since sent three more and two from the website. Nothing.
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I hope, but I am loosing faith.
    Agreed. I understand the aspect of "these things take time", but the announcement followed by a couple months of silence does not inspire confidence in me. I read that the best place to get updates was the twitter account, so I followed GeoManGear on there. So far I've seen lots of posts about their race team.

    I'm thinking now that its a "get what you paid for" type of thing and just buy a full replacement system.

  44. #244
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    Geoman is burning all the goodwill earned up until this year. They almost seem to have bailed on the lights at this point. I for one have moved on from them. This is not support, it is silence during the heavy season of bike lights.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    And yet here in the UK, Raleigh continue to sell the light as the Raleigh Special Products Astrum. No recall on the Magicshine, or the Astrum, or whaver other name the Magicshine sells under. And I would say that the UK is as tight on things of this nature than the US...

    What problem? There never was a problem.
    When I do a search on the Raleigh Special Products Astrum, it looks nothing like the Magicshine LED headlight, its a taillight.

    http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products....=m2b64s39p1824

  46. #246
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    Now it's clear why other lights cost so much more.

    I look at Magicshine as a hobby-hacker light. You buy it knowing it's marginal and SOLD AS IS.

    If you are willing to accept this, great, otherwise,,,,,,nevermind.

    If you order batteries and parts from the web and build your own, you have nobody to complain to, so why worry if you buy a light cheaper than even doing that? Just accept the risk and act like you built it yourself....and treat it that way in keeping the safety margin such that if it catches on fire, it won't burn down the house.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg
    When I do a search on the Raleigh Special Products Astrum, it looks nothing like the Magicshine LED headlight, its a taillight.

    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/products...=m2b64s39p1824
    AND, that light looks EXACTLY (minus non-diffused lens) like my Serfas tl-200 - great light BTW

    Astrum


    Serfas TL-200
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg
    When I do a search on the Raleigh Special Products Astrum, it looks nothing like the Magicshine LED headlight, its a taillight.

    http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products....=m2b64s39p1824
    Astrum is the rear. Asteri is the front. Astrum rear is one hell of a rear light btw as said above..

    Asteri Pro 900 is the magicshine......

    If there'd ever been a problem you think Raleigh wouldn't have acted?

    There never was a magicshine issue, and who the feck is Geoman anyway? A lupine dealer?

    http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+S...ht_LAA9000.htm

  49. #249
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    It's been just over 2 months since the voluntary recall was announced. I'm sure a fair amount of budgeting, r&d, cost analysis, safety approvals and so on must be completed before shipping new batteries.

    The only announcement left to be made it when replacement batteries are ready to be shipped, do people expect a daily update on every detail of the replacement process?

    If your in dire need of your replacement battery $40 shouldn't break the bank and when the batteries are ready from geoman you have a spare.

    Geoman still has a business to run and I'm sure there's a lot of business aspects that need to be taken into consideration with something as a voluntary recall. As much as it may suck to have to wait for a battery, I would think it would be better to wait then have one less vendor due to financial or safety issues being rushed or mishandled.

  50. #250
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    Many other dealers are popping up with alternatives so I would expect Geoman to be able to do it as well. The point is not $$ it is service. I do not expect daily updates but I do expect time lines. Again, these are batteries using off the shelf components, not new technology.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Hopper
    Grunion,

    I visited the Ballistic Battery website and found they are offering a hand-built by them replacement for the MS battery with the original connector. It's only $40. They claim it's the same size and the same capacity. Seems like a good deal to me. I'd also think the original charger would work as well.

    I'm in no hurry as I now have a Baja Designs Strykr. While I believe Geoman will make good on the recall, if he doesn't this is definitely an option to look at. The MS light head is just too good to not spend $40 to make it work right.

    The batteries Pat made me are larger capacity I believe he put both packs on his website but I am not sure. Call him he will make anything Its what he does. Also he is a MTBer like us so he gets it. Oh and yes my stock charger works but Pat is bringing me a different one Just For piece of mind.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny1999
    do people expect a daily update on every detail of the replacement process?
    Has there been any update since the "recall" was announced?

  53. #253
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    Just a little update for our STR friends, we are working with a US battery pack manufacturer who is located in SoCal. We are having an intelligent battery produced with the best components available, sorry it's taking so long we are expediting the process as much as possible. We can't provide the date of the availability of the new GeoManGear battery pack as it depends on testing and approval. Also we have been busy testing new products in the last few months and plan to have some items of interest on our site before the end of the month. Again, we are sincerely sorry for the inconvenience that the Magicshine battery issue has caused.

    This was taken off another website STR
    Soon we will have new batteries.
    Last edited by Rakuman; 01-20-2011 at 11:40 AM.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny1999
    It's been just over 2 months since the voluntary recall was announced. I'm sure a fair amount of budgeting, r&d, cost analysis, safety approvals and so on must be completed before shipping new batteries.

    The only announcement left to be made it when replacement batteries are ready to be shipped, do people expect a daily update on every detail of the replacement process?
    No, but responses to emails from those with recalled batteries and failed chargers would be good. A post here that things are in process would restore trust.

    Geoman still has a business to run and I'm sure there's a lot of business aspects that need to be taken into consideration with something as a voluntary recall. As much as it may suck to have to wait for a battery, I would think it would be better to wait then have one less vendor due to financial or safety issues being rushed or mishandled.
    I probably spent $500 - $800 to with GeoMan in the past five years. The company has lost my trust, and I will not buy from them again. Ignoring your old customers is bad business, since you loose their dollars and the referrals to friends.

    Again, Jay who started GeoMan (lost a battle to cancer), would have never run the company like this, and been posting about riding bikes on Twitter and Facebook and not responding to customers. Part of my frustration in this is sadness of seeing the good will he created being squandered, may he rest in peace.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  55. #255
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    Hi,
    Twoheadsbrewing--I fixed spelling. Thats what i get for working to late at night. Any questions you guys have feel free to email or call me .

    Patrick

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticBatteries
    Hi,
    Twoheadsbrewing--I fixed spelling. Thats what i get for working to late at night. Any questions you guys have feel free to email or call me .

    Patrick
    Looks good Patrick! Sorry if I missed it before, but is there an estimated run time for this battery? And does it work with the Magicshine charger? And is it a Li-Ion, Li-Poly, etc?
    "Got everything you need?"

  57. #257
    853+29+1x24=Fun
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    There is an option to buy a charger.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    Just a little update for our STR friends,
    What is STR?

    Also why not put this up on their recall page? I'd prefer to see an update of "We are still working on it, but don't have any firm dates" then the radio silence I've seen thus far.

    I too have sent several emails to GeoMan that have gone unacknowledged which has added to my frustration.

  59. #259
    853+29+1x24=Fun
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    STR... maybe this?

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/

    SoCal Trail Riders. Maybe it was a copy and paste post from that site to this one?

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Now it's clear why other lights cost so much more.

    I look at Magicshine as a hobby-hacker light. You buy it knowing it's marginal and SOLD AS IS.

    If you are willing to accept this, great, otherwise,,,,,,nevermind.

    If you order batteries and parts from the web and build your own, you have nobody to complain to, so why worry if you buy a light cheaper than even doing that? Just accept the risk and act like you built it yourself....and treat it that way in keeping the safety margin such that if it catches on fire, it won't burn down the house.
    Yes, so if you have a light with problems, either build your own pack and buy a charger (if your charger is bad) or buy a pre-built replacement pack from Ballistic Batteries....it's not that difficult and I wouldn't wait for the entire night riding season to pass us by when there are other battery options out there for a nice headlight.
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  61. #261
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    Just how hard was it to order replacement cells from one of the GOOD li-ion makers like Sanyo or Panasonic, and then re-wire the recalled packs and re-dip them in shrink wrap? As to fires burning down houses... there was ONE fire reported, on here... it was confined to a space in a kitchen that looked to me like it was designed for a fridge or a pantry or something... a li-ion igniting on its own won't burn very far unless its surrounded with other combustibles, and the original li-ion packs don't like immersion in water as I recall as it can short-circuit the batteries. Anyone else ever put their camelbak bladder down in such a way that you pinched the valve open and it leaked? Guess what might happen if the battery pack for your MS light was attached to the shoulder strap NEXT to that leaking bladder valve.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  62. #262
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    Little of topic - Anybody know why GeoMan quit selling GPS's. I was looking for a GPS and remembered that is how he(they) got his(their) start. Was suprised to find out that they don't sell GPS's any longer.




    ****

  63. #263
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    Yes they work with the MagicShine charger.The big capacity pack gets you roughly 6 hours of run time on high setting.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticBatteries
    Yes they work with the MagicShine charger.The big capacity pack gets you roughly 6 hours of run time on high setting.
    That is pretty great run time. For a few of us weight weenies out there what is the weight of the batteries and could you add that to the listings.

    Thanks for the great options Ballistic. Btw, i have 2 grad degrees and still can't speell ethiier !

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallisticBatteries
    Yes they work with the MagicShine charger.The big capacity pack gets you roughly 6 hours of run time on high setting.
    Sweet - found your site - I will be ordering 2 battery packs

  66. #266
    GeoMan
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    Hi all

    Just a little update, we have been working very diligently on the remedy for the last few months. We are receiving hundreds of emails each day and are trying to address each one individually, if your correspondence has been overlooked please email directly to [email protected]

    We are now in the testing phase of the new battery manufacturing. If all
    goes well and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission approves the
    replacement battery, we will be able to start production soon. It's going to be a really nicely designed battery and a dramatic improvement over the current battery pack in terms of quality and performance.


    We can't release dates right now until we are fully approved to rollout the
    recall and remedy, the flow on information is due to begin very soon.

    We will have some new products on the website within a few weeks which we have been
    testing for a few months that may be of interest to you.

    Thanks again for your support we are working on this and expediting the
    recall wherever possible. See our recall page for the most recent info.



    Quote Originally Posted by finny1999
    It's been just over 2 months since the voluntary recall was announced. I'm sure a fair amount of budgeting, r&d, cost analysis, safety approvals and so on must be completed before shipping new batteries.

    The only announcement left to be made it when replacement batteries are ready to be shipped, do people expect a daily update on every detail of the replacement process?

    If your in dire need of your replacement battery $40 shouldn't break the bank and when the batteries are ready from geoman you have a spare.

    Geoman still has a business to run and I'm sure there's a lot of business aspects that need to be taken into consideration with something as a voluntary recall. As much as it may suck to have to wait for a battery, I would think it would be better to wait then have one less vendor due to financial or safety issues being rushed or mishandled.
    GeoMan
    We Ride!
    www.geomangear.com

  67. #267
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    Thanks for the update. I figured this would take a while and I frankly have never seen a recall situation where some folks didn't poop little green apples.

  68. #268
    GeoMan
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    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Thanks for the update. I figured this would take a while and I frankly have never seen a recall situation where some folks didn't poop little green apples.
    GeoMan
    We Ride!
    www.geomangear.com

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.
    on the non-issue magicshine battery 'problem'...

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunion
    The batteries Pat made me are larger capacity I believe he put both packs on his website but I am not sure. Call him he will make anything Its what he does. Also he is a MTBer like us so he gets it. Oh and yes my stock charger works but Pat is bringing me a different one Just For piece of mind.
    In the UK ebay seller sub66 (who sell a D bin magicshine alternative called the grenade) have a 6.6Ah 3p2s MS replacement pack for £35

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    on the non-issue magicshine battery 'problem'...
    TROLL
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    TROLL
    LOL

    Just calling it as I see it

    Raleigh have not issued a recall. They dwarf Geoman. You'd have thought a problem would have been picked up by them. The USA isn't the centre of the universe. The UK hasn't issued a recall. Europe hasn't issued a recall.... Raleigh hasn't issued a recall on its rebadged magicshine.. and yet there is this little US Lupine dealer, with a magicshine recall....

    Just think it's all terribly fishy and/or knee-jerk...

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    on the non-issue magicshine battery 'problem'...
    Isn't that getting a little old?

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx
    Isn't that getting a little old?
    what? the problem that only a few people had? Yes it is.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    LOL

    Just calling it as I see it

    Raleigh have not issued a recall. They dwarf Geoman. You'd have thought a problem would have been picked up by them. The USA isn't the centre of the universe. The UK hasn't issued a recall. Europe hasn't issued a recall.... Raleigh hasn't issued a recall on its rebadged magicshine.. and yet there is this little US Lupine dealer, with a magicshine recall....

    Just think it's all terribly fishy and/or knee-jerk...
    Do you work for Raleigh or is it the just the furor or nationalism that drives you?

    Just because Raleigh has not recalled them has no meaning here in this country. Just because UK or Europe has not recalled them has no meaning in this country.

    I cannot even find that Raleigh sells those accessories in the USA. Raleigh is a very minor seller on this side of the pond. Europe is not the center of the universe for us.

    This is a USA issue, TROLL.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    what? the problem that only a few people had? Yes it is.
    Its a problem that is big enough for a SMALL company to recall probably 1000+ batteries at a cost who knows how much, and replace then with good ones, I will stand buy the company that does his customers right.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    Hi all

    Just a little update
    Thank you for this. All I really wanted to know is that things were still happening behind the scenes.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Do you work for Raleigh or is it the just the furor or nationalism that drives you?

    Just because Raleigh has not recalled them has no meaning here in this country. Just because UK or Europe has not recalled them has no meaning in this country.

    I cannot even find that Raleigh sells those accessories in the USA. Raleigh is a very minor seller on this side of the pond. Europe is not the center of the universe for us.

    This is a USA issue, TROLL.
    Hilarious! Raleigh is big in the USA.

    Raleigh sells the magicshine in the UK and Europe as the Asteri 900

    I am not trolling.. just somewhat confused. I don't even know if my light is a magicshine. Same box. Same graphics. Same light. Same battery pack... same everything.. yet no battery problem for me... 8 hours on low.. 3 hours on high, and I have had it over a year.... and I have over charged it 3 times...

    I am just suspicious. Cos I just am. Having said that, I like the advice that 'Geoman' gave me in the Bike Ray III thread.. just what I wanted to hear... if I had a Geoman in the Uk I'd probably buy from them also.. but I am still somewhat suspcicious.. and I still think it is a non issue given the cheapness of the light. I mean, for feck sake, it's a lupine at 1/6 of the cost...

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    I mean, for feck sake, it's a lupine at 1/6 of the cost...
    ....and with that statement, everyone who works for or owns a Lupine just fell backwards in their chair and is Laughing their *** off....but seriously, so far I have agreed with most of what you're saying. It's time to start prodding Geoman to get the ball rolling with this so called, "recall" business. I'm sure if he wanted to he could just as well ditch MS and start selling any of the other so-called MS clones that have batteries compatible with the MS product. If he did that he could offer batteries to whoever he wanted to. To me it looks as though he's haggling over the battery issue longer than necessary. With all the clone products floating around I really can't understand the delay with a new battery. Others are not having problems with getting new batteries, why is Geoman?

    In the meantime ( please ) lets try to keep the name of Lupine out of this sub $100 light bashing thread.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Raleigh is big in the USA.
    I just had to! Raleigh's Chopper was my very first bike that had gears
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Hilarious! Raleigh is big in the USA.

    Raleigh sells the magicshine in the UK and Europe as the Asteri 900

    I am not trolling.. just somewhat confused. I don't even know if my light is a magicshine. Same box. Same graphics. Same light. Same battery pack... same everything.. yet no battery problem for me... 8 hours on low.. 3 hours on high, and I have had it over a year.... and I have over charged it 3 times...

    I am just suspicious. Cos I just am. Having said that, I like the advice that 'Geoman' gave me in the Bike Ray III thread.. just what I wanted to hear... if I had a Geoman in the Uk I'd probably buy from them also.. but I am still somewhat suspcicious.. and I still think it is a non issue given the cheapness of the light. I mean, for feck sake, it's a lupine at 1/6 of the cost...
    How do you over charge the battery?
    "It looks flexy"

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    ....and with that statement, everyone who works for or owns a Lupine just fell backwards in their chair and is Laughing their *** off....but seriously, so far I have agreed with most of what you're saying. It's time to start prodding Geoman to get the ball rolling with this so called, "recall" business. I'm sure if he wanted to he could just as well ditch MS and start selling any of the other so-called MS clones that have batteries compatible with the MS product. If he did that he could offer batteries to whoever he wanted to. To me it looks as though he's haggling over the battery issue longer than necessary. With all the clone products floating around I really can't understand the delay with a new battery. Others are not having problems with getting new batteries, why is Geoman?

    In the meantime ( please ) lets try to keep the name of Lupine out of this sub $100 light bashing thread.
    I agree it is a little fishy. 2 statements in this thread by Geoman do not add up. They are a small company with their resources being consumed daily by the battery issue yet they have been testing new products these same last few months and will be releasing them soon. It sounds like they are working about 100 hours per day.

  83. #283
    ~Disc~Golf~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    I agree it is a little fishy. 2 statements in this thread by Geoman do not add up. They are a small company with their resources being consumed daily by the battery issue yet they have been testing new products these same last few months and will be releasing them soon. It sounds like they are working about 100 hours per day.
    WTF do you want him to say then?


    Testing could mean charging and discharging several batteries, measuring for anomalies (unbalanced cells), etc...
    This could be done by one person - even testing 100 bats a day over 40 hrs a week is easy.

    No doubt they get hundreds of calls and emails weekly - answering them all takes forever!!

    PLUS they have to work with the CPSC - which last time I looked, is a US Gov't operation
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  84. #284
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    This thread is one of many examples why companies should not 'interact' with customers via internet message boards.

    R

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    I agree it is a little fishy. 2 statements in this thread by Geoman do not add up. They are a small company with their resources being consumed daily by the battery issue yet they have been testing new products these same last few months and will be releasing them soon. It sounds like they are working about 100 hours per day.
    Not really, if you have ever worked for a small company you know that sometimes, just to survive you have to put in some insane hours. I would imagine that for Geoman, this is one of those times. Still a non-issue for me, BTW. I have a battery over a year old and it still pumps out at least 2 hours on high. The newer one I got in October is just under 3 hours on high.
    "Got everything you need?"

  86. #286
    Go SOLAR...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMrider
    This thread is one of many examples why companies should not 'interact' with customers via internet message boards.

    R
    Agreed...some customers haven't a clue.
    Go Solar...

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMrider
    This thread is one of many examples why companies should not 'interact' with customers via internet message boards.

    R
    Wow someone that finally gets it Bravo
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  88. #288
    ~Disc~Golf~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    Wow someone that finally gets it Bravo
    hey man, noticed your S/N, you do ceramics?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMrider
    This thread is one of many examples why companies should not 'interact' with customers via internet message boards.

    R
    Why is that?
    I think it's great that companies can engage with their consumers.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    hey man, noticed your S/N, you do ceramics?
    yes I do Google K.C. Klug and you will see some of my older works
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    yes I do Google K.C. Klug and you will see some of my older works
    Nice work man!
    I did some disc golf discs for trophies you might've liked (with your platter work and all) - I have no pics online - but yours are just phenomenal...
    I have just a smitten of my work online
    Here's my ceramics - all Raku 'cept for "twisted" (obviously) which was done in the kiln behind me in my avatar.


    If you'd like, you could back out of that page to see some other stuff in other mediums.


    Once again - great work
    Last edited by highdelll; 01-22-2011 at 12:05 AM.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  92. #292
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    I had one of those in a five speed - my brother had a Grifter. (I'm getting old.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw
    I just had to! Raleigh's Chopper was my very first bike that had gears

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMrider
    This thread is one of many examples why companies should not 'interact' with customers via internet message boards.

    R
    Oh, I wouldn't go quite that far. However if you had said, "This thread is one of many examples why SOME companies should not interact with customers via internet message boards", I would tend to agree. If you're going to make promises to the peeps, then make sure those promises you keeps.

    I think some very important guidelines for vendors/companies to use when using a message board are: First, Don't make promises you don't intend to keep in a timely manner. Secondly, refrain from starting too many of your own threads. If someone wants to talk about your products, let the posters start the threads. If a vendor starts too many threads it really does start to look spammy ( and that tends to annoy people ). Lastly, if problems arise from one of your products, don't fade into the woodwork by not responding to posts aimed at your products. Please do defend your products or you will lose your fan base real quick. If you're going to give a solution to a problem be ready to give details. If someone is going to have to wait months before an issue is resolved they are going to want to know WHY ( in detail ). If you can't stand by your products then it is probably not a good idea to chat-it-up too much on the message board. My two cents for what it's worth.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    How do you over charge the battery?
    I left it charging for over a day because I forgot about it....

  95. #295
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    Just thought I would post this. I ordered a light from GEOMAN last year and needed the 1400 for a race coming up to mount on my handle bars. I have to say I was a little gun shy at pulling the trigger and ordering from him again, but I felt like it was the best place to get the extra light since he was the US distributor.

    I placed my order and just like last time it shipped same day. My light should be here Monday. It was nice to see a update from GEOMAN himself. I look forward to riding the 12 hours of Santos with my new light setup.
    Mountain Bike http://www.mtbmike.com/Videos

  96. #296
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    I dunno though.. I mean you US types must be pretty tight... cos we pay twice as much as you do in the UK, yet our houses are half to a third of the size of yours, and everything we buy costs twice as much... and yet you still couldn't support your own industries...

  97. #297
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    Hey Maximus, nothing fishy, the recall involves a ton of red tape, correspondence with existing and new customers has increased, technology has improved and we have been testing new products for 2011. We want to make sure that we are testing anything on the trail that we intend to sell, this includes future lightheads and batteries. There are new products hitting the market and we take a look at many of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    I agree it is a little fishy. 2 statements in this thread by Geoman do not add up. They are a small company with their resources being consumed daily by the battery issue yet they have been testing new products these same last few months and will be releasing them soon. It sounds like they are working about 100 hours per day.
    GeoMan
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  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    I dunno though.. I mean you US types must be pretty tight... cos we pay twice as much as you do in the UK, yet our houses are half to a third of the size of yours, and everything we buy costs twice as much... and yet you still couldn't support your own industries...
    ****....you know how much money we send your way every year in aid. Support what industries....explain that
    Go Solar...

  99. #299
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    Kinda....

    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    Now it's clear why other lights cost so much more.

    I look at Magicshine as a hobby-hacker light. You buy it knowing it's marginal and SOLD AS IS.

    If you are willing to accept this, great, otherwise,,,,,,nevermind.

    If you order batteries and parts from the web and build your own, you have nobody to complain to, so why worry if you buy a light cheaper than even doing that? Just accept the risk and act like you built it yourself....and treat it that way in keeping the safety margin such that if it catches on fire, it won't burn down the house.
    ... the way I saw mine too. I mean, Geoman service is a plus, tho!

    I was actually working on a DIY light head when the MS light hit. When the MS light was available, I felt kinda silly for putting in as many hours as I did since this was way nicer and better than anything I could have made myself, and I already blew more money on my DIY light.

    I would actually be using my MS if I could just get out for a night ride! IMO (and YMMV) I'm personally not overly concerned with the dangers of spontaneous battery combustion. I just keep it on the bike in a spot where it won't catch anything on fire, and I can jump off the bike and deal with it if it does. I charge it in a ceramic flower pot out my back door.

    Between sick kids, sick me, busy wife, and no other time on my hands, I'm going insane not getting out for a good spin in the dark. Not going to let the light stop me.

    I always ride with two lights, and a small LED flashlight in the Camelbak. If a light fails on me on the trail, I won't be screwed.

  100. #300
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    Geoman statement 1:

    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.

    Geoman statement 2:

    We will have some new products on the website within a few weeks which we have been
    testing for a few months that may be of interest.

    These statements are not compatible. They could be marketing hype but they are not compatible.

  101. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    Geoman statement 1:

    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.

    Geoman statement 2:

    We will have some new products on the website within a few weeks which we have been
    testing for a few months that may be of interest.

    These statements are not compatible. They could be marketing hype but they are not compatible.

    This is exactly why Geoman in my opinion should not post except small updates on the recall, he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, Some people will find something negative in anything he says right now, remember guys its just a battery and it sounds like he is not going to give us a POS chinese replacement.
    I know if I was in a similar position as geoman I would be doing exactly what he is doing, this replacement recall has got to be costing a boatload of time and money and some just don't get that these kind of things take time.
    just imagine that each new battery costs him $15 bucks to manufacture and x that by 1000 plus that's going to add up to a healthy chunk of money, seeing that he is getting these packs made here in So Cal I'm sure he is going to pay more than $15 bucks
    If you are not night riding right now either by carefully charging your old battery or finding a replacement, that's your problem that easily solved buy investing $40 bucks on a new battery then when you get your battery replaced by geoman you will have a spare, I never go out without a extra pack in the camelback.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  102. #302
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    Well said Rakuman.

    Maximus: Do you think the people at Geoman have time to use the restroom while at work?

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    This is exactly why Geoman in my opinion should not post except small updates on the recall, he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, Some people will find something negative in anything he says right now, remember guys its just a battery and it sounds like he is not going to give us a POS chinese replacement.
    I know if I was in a similar position as geoman I would be doing exactly what he is doing, this replacement recall has got to be costing a boatload of time and money and some just don't get that these kind of things take time.
    just imagine that each new battery costs him $15 bucks to manufacture and x that by 1000 plus that's going to add up to a healthy chunk of money, seeing that he is getting these packs made here in So Cal I'm sure he is going to pay more than $15 bucks
    If you are not night riding right now either by carefully charging your old battery or finding a replacement, that's your problem that easily solved by investing $40 bucks on a new battery then when you get your battery replaced by geoman you will have a spare, I never go out without a extra pack in the camelback.
    Yes, very well said.
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  104. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    Geoman statement 1:

    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.

    Geoman statement 2:

    We will have some new products on the website within a few weeks which we have been
    testing for a few months that may be of interest.

    These statements are not compatible. They could be marketing hype but they are not compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    The Bike Ray III is really nice, lightweight, has a 20 degree lens for nice flood on the bars. Triple XPG provides longer burntime on the same battery as a P7.

  105. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    Geoman statement 1:

    We are really sorry it is taking so long, since we are a small company it is consuming all of our resources on a daily basis. Wheels are turning behind the scenes and we are making progress.

    Geoman statement 2:

    We will have some new products on the website within a few weeks which we have been
    testing for a few months that may be of interest.

    These statements are not compatible. They could be marketing hype but they are not compatible.
    Exactly how so?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  106. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    Hey Maximus, nothing fishy, the recall involves a ton of red tape, correspondence with existing and new customers has increased, technology has improved and we have been testing new products for 2011. We want to make sure that we are testing anything on the trail that we intend to sell, this includes future lightheads and batteries. There are new products hitting the market and we take a look at many of them.
    zzzzzZZZZzzzz .zzzZZzz ...* Thud *... ...*Huh*...did someone just say something significant about the new battery replacement or did I just wake up for nothing? Oh darn it, just someone throwing me another dead fish. That's the funny thing about fish. The longer they sit out the more they begin to stink. ( *Prod* ) Unfortunately I don't think the stink will go away until the new replacement batteries arrive. Please, no more bones ( or dead fish ) until then...I need my beauty sleep. Oh, before I doze off, the Gemini light looks like it has a nice battery and is compatible with the MS.... ...back to my winter hibernation sleep.....wake me when the new battery arrives.... ......zzzZZZZzzz . . .

  107. #307
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    I have been involved in drug recalls. I know how recalls work. I also know how public statements need to be weighed. I would be willing to bet that working with FDA just as or more taxing than the Consumer Protection Agency.

    I really do not care about the batteries. I have since replaced the non working one and have bought a few new lights. I have spent quite a bit of money with them though.

    How much are they working with the government? There is no recall on any other light other than ones sold by Geoman. If this were being pushed by the government you would see all the US resellers pulling them.

  108. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Exactly how so?
    Define "all our resources".

  109. #309
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    Is the Piko battery not a candidate for the replacement? I think it just needs an interconnect cable?

  110. #310
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    There are a bunch out there. I picked up some lights with the same connector to use with the MS rear lights.

  111. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    Define "all our resources".
    I apologize sir or madam.
    I understand that common English is not spoken by everyone.
    I did not mean to confuse you.

    You see*, (*not saying that you actually have visual input to your brain), the term (we're using) "all our resources" is an English "colloquialism' for 'we're doing all we can do pertaining to this particular issue'.
    It does not mean that they are literally using everything that they own or have access too.

    For instance, a fire-house contains a lot of things; couches, a ping-pong table, coffee maker, toilet paper and also some fire engines....plus many more things that make up all of their 'resources'.

    If your house was burning down, should a fire company "using all it's resources" bring their internet router, oven mitts and fire trucks? - or just their fire trucks...

    The answer is 'Just their fire trucks'.
    Why? Because a refrigerator just sucks at stopping fire and it's heavy...
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  112. #312
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    I very much appreciate Geoman throwing us a crumb to keep hope alive.

  113. #313
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    I checked the recall page on Geomans website and found this new to me info
    Quote
    7. Other Magicshine dealers are selling “ new batteries” . Why isn’ t Geomangear selling these batteries and sending them as replacements?
    The "new" batteries offered by other Magicshine dealers have not been tested in the U.S. and in our opinion may not be an improvement in safety or performance. We received samples of the "new" battery pack. The UL certificate is from 2003 and is for LG cells contained in a battery pack. In fact these new battery packs do not include LG cells. You can draw your own conclusions here but we chose not to use these battery packs for our customer replacements. Our replacement packs will be U.S. designed, made, tested and approved. In addition, the US CPSC will also test and approve them before we send them out. Customer safety and satisfaction are our top concerns (not the bottom-line)!

    Thought maybe some of you guys that were going to buy from some of the Ebay magicshine brokers might like to know everything does not seem on the up and up. I bought 1 of those ebay batteries with the silicone wrap on it and pulled back the wrap and it looks just like the old style pack.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  114. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    ...Thought maybe some of you guys that were going to buy from some of the Ebay magicshine brokers might like to know everything does not seem on the up and up. I bought 1 of those ebay batteries with the silicone wrap on it and pulled back the wrap and it looks just like the old style pack.
    Looks can be deceiving. The real issue is are the cells well matched and are the cells of better quality. I have yet to hear of any major issues with the newer MS batteries ( or their clones )

    Looking forward, this whole battery quality issue should benefit the entire industry once the smoke has cleared. Even so, there will still be the occasional battery problem regardless of what light system you buy, where the cells were manufactured or where the pack was assembled. As long as you buy from someone who is willing to stand behind their product and offer a replacement or refund when expedient you should be satisfied. The way I look at it, if you get two years plus out of a discounted battery pack you've got your money's worth.

  115. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I apologize sir or madam.
    I understand that common English is not spoken by everyone.
    I did not mean to confuse you.

    You see*, (*not saying that you actually have visual input to your brain), the term (we're using) "all our resources" is an English "colloquialism' for 'we're doing all we can do pertaining to this particular issue'.
    It does not mean that they are literally using everything that they own or have access too.

    For instance, a fire-house contains a lot of things; couches, a ping-pong table, coffee maker, toilet paper and also some fire engines....plus many more things that make up all of their 'resources'.

    If your house was burning down, should a fire company "using all it's resources" bring their internet router, oven mitts and fire trucks? - or just their fire trucks...

    The answer is 'Just their fire trucks'.
    Why? Because a refrigerator just sucks at stopping fire and it's heavy...
    No it is marketing. Nice personal attack.

  116. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    No it is marketing. Nice personal attack.

    No It is a battery get over it
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  117. #317
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    So without reading every post....

    I have a BRBAD NEW NEVER BEEN USED light set up I bought for the wife. What's the remedy?
    Monte
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  118. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    So without reading every post....

    I have a BRBAD NEW NEVER BEEN USED light set up I bought for the wife. What's the remedy?
    USE IT
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  119. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    So without reading every post....

    I have a BRBAD NEW NEVER BEEN USED light set up I bought for the wife. What's the remedy?
    If you bought it from GeoManGear, use it with caution untill a remedy is announced. If you bought it somewhere else, use it with caution. Other than that do your own research.

  120. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    So without reading every post....

    I have a BRBAD NEW NEVER BEEN USED light set up I bought for the wife. What's the remedy?
    You have a few options, I think most people are going with #2:
    • Use it.
    • Use it but store and charge it in a fire proof area or bag.
    • Use it but store and charge it in your neighbors house.
    • Keep it but don't use it, store it in a fire proof area.
    • Bury it in the back yard.
    • Send it back.
    • Post it to the CPSC.
    • Call your insurance company and tell them you have an item that might burst into flames at any moment and ask their advice.
    • Call the police because the seller is using a fake UL and is trying to burn your house down.
    • etc


    PS, heres how serious an incident you need to have for a recall:
    http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml11/11716.html
    Name of Product: LED Lamps
    Units: About 42,000
    Manufacturer: Eco-Story, of Portland, Maine
    Hazard: When used without a Class II transformer, the lamp can overheat, posing a fire hazard.
    Incidents/Injuries: The company has received two reports of overheated lamps. No injuries have been reported.

  121. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    You have a few options, I think most people are going with #2:
    • Use it.
    • Use it but store and charge it in a fire proof area or bag.
    • Use it but store and charge it in your neighbors house.
    • Keep it but don't use it, store it in a fire proof area.
    • Bury it in the back yard.
    • Send it back.
    • Post it to the CPSC.
    • Call your insurance company and tell them you have an item that might burst into flames at any moment and ask their advice.
    • Call the police because the seller is using a fake UL and is trying to burn your house down.
    • etc


    PS, heres how serious an incident you need to have for a recall:
    http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml11/11716.html
    Name of Product: LED Lamps
    Units: About 42,000
    Manufacturer: Eco-Story, of Portland, Maine
    Hazard: When used without a Class II transformer, the lamp can overheat, posing a fire hazard.
    Incidents/Injuries: The company has received two reports of overheated lamps. No injuries have been reported.
    Yeah, I think Rakuman is giving HORRIBLE advice. That was a great example znomit. Only 2 overheated and they replace 42,000 of them. The burning up pics of the MS battery should be enough and I believe there were a few more. One of mine, for example, shorted. Anyway, be real careful guys.
    "It looks flexy"

  122. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus_XXIV
    No it is marketing. Nice personal attack.
    dood, excuse me?, where was the "personal attack"?
    You need to stop smoking those Bath Salts
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  123. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    PS, heres how serious an incident you need to have for a recall:
    http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml11/11716.html
    Name of Product: LED Lamps
    Units: About 42,000
    Manufacturer: Eco-Story, of Portland, Maine
    Hazard: When used without a Class II transformer, the lamp can overheat, posing a fire hazard.
    Incidents/Injuries: The company has received two reports of overheated lamps. No injuries have been reported.
    So did the CPSC issue a recall on the MS battery? I just spent 20 min. on their website looking and I couldn't find a thing. Besides, a true CPSC recall would make it illegal to sell or resell the battery in the USA. That isn't happening. If there is a true recall a link would be nice. Oh yeah, that led lamp had a UL listing. So much for UL listings.

  124. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Yeah, I think Rakuman is giving HORRIBLE advice. That was a great example znomit. Only 2 overheated and they replace 42,000 of them. The burning up pics of the MS battery should be enough and I believe there were a few more. One of mine, for example, shorted. Anyway, be real careful guys.
    I'm sorry I was trying to be sarcastic. but it didn't come threw my bad.
    I do recommend to use the shat out of these lights but PLEASE do use caution when charging or buy a substitute battery that's what i did 6 total, I charge all my lith batteries on the stove and in a pan with lid then I go out and ride.
    Last edited by Rakuman; 01-24-2011 at 08:14 AM.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  125. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Yeah, I think Rakuman is giving HORRIBLE advice. That was a great example znomit. Only 2 overheated and they replace 42,000 of them. The burning up pics of the MS battery should be enough and I believe there were a few more. One of mine, for example, shorted. Anyway, be real careful guys.
    Lol I betcha stick your helmet on for every ride!

    2 out of 42000 is great odds. Besides, that is another example of a voluntary recall.

    I understand why a company like Geoman may prefer to be more risk averse and make their own pack. I get it. But I continue to use my MS.. I do make sure I am near when I charge it.. and I do keep the battery in a container when not in use.. but only because of all this polava.

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    I sorry I was trying to be sarcastic. but it didn't come threw my bad.
    I do recommend to use the shat out of these lights but PLEASE do use caution when charging or buy a substitute battery that's what i did 6 total, I charge all my lith batteries on the stove and in a pan with lid then I go out and ride.
    I agree. Use them normally, but charge them and store them with caution would be the best advice I reckon. Me? I never gave a toss about the battery pack... the lighthead on its own was easily worth the price, and besides, mine has worked perfectly for more than a year..

    I notice those 24/7 diy and subb66 ebay dudes do 6 cell (3p2s) MS compatible batteries..

  127. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Lol I betcha stick your helmet on for every ride!

    2 out of 42000 is great odds. Besides, that is another example of a voluntary recall.

    I understand why a company like Geoman may prefer to be more risk averse and make their own pack. I get it. But I continue to use my MS.. I do make sure I am near when I charge it.. and I do keep the battery in a container when not in use.. but only because of all this polava.
    Risk is the probability of harm multiplied by the magnitude of harm.

    1:21000 is a lot better than the odds of me falling off my bike next time I ride. But losing everything I own in a house fire (including possibly my life or my loved ones) would really, really, really suck. For a game of Russian Roulette, I need much better odds.

  128. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Risk is the probability of harm multiplied by the magnitude of harm.

    1:21000 is a lot better than the odds of me falling off my bike next time I ride. But losing everything I own in a house fire (including possibly my life or my loved ones) would really, really, really suck. For a game of Russian Roulette, I need much better odds.
    You mean you want much lower odds, understandable. Then it's time to take your paranoid delusions to the next step. Sell your cars because more people die in those than you can imagine and need I say the odds of that happening are much, much higher. That means your family is still in jeopardy. Secondly, time to rip all the AC wiring from your house. Most house fires are a result of faulty wiring. Do you have gas heat, oil or propane....get rid of it, total fire hazard. Everything I mentioned will have a much higher probability of causing damage, loss or death then these stupid batteries. Do you want me to continue?

  129. #329
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    There's so much dumb in your reply, I don't even know where to start. We are all dumber for merely reading it.

    I award you zero points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

  130. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    There's so much dumb in your reply, I don't even know where to start. We are all dumber for merely reading it.

    I award you zero points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

    ...truth is never dumb, it simply is what it is. The sad part is that some people can't see truth, even when someone else takes the time to point it out to them. I can deal with that, as well as the people who disagree with me or my views. My post was intended to enlighten, not to insult. I often use satire to make a point. It sometimes helps to prod to help expand ones view to see the bigger picture. I'm saddened that you thought it was dumb.

    Now as to the other thing....no worries, God ( with a capital G ) is not done with me yet.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 01-24-2011 at 02:39 AM.

  131. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    ...truth is never dumb, it simply is what it is. The sad part is that some people can't see truth, even when someone else takes the time to point it out to them. I can deal with that, as well as the people who disagree with me or my views. My post was intended to enlighten, not to insult. I often use satire to make a point. It sometimes helps to prod to help expand ones view to see the bigger picture. I'm saddened that you thought it was dumb.

    Now as to the other thing....no worries, God ( with a capital G ) is not done with me yet.
    Calm it boys, CMD, i do agree its not worth thinking of risk, doing the things we do on our bikes is always risky, its always wise to reduce risk, however with these batteries they havent just gone pop when sat there, its always to my knowledge when charging or discharging so me having 4 of theses and about 12 18650's in my bag at home should worry me!

  132. #332
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    3 months later and you guys still expect to get a battery replacement? lol

  133. #333
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    Yes, or MTBR will be a good place to organize a class action lawsuit. I have mountain bike lawyer friend who has offered to help.
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  134. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Yes, or MTBR will be a good place to organize a class action lawsuit. I have mountain bike lawyer friend who has offered to help.
    You are kidding right ?
    ITS A BATTERY
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  135. #335
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    I own a combo set and have been using it without problems. Never discharge these batteries and never let them run too low, especially to drain point.
    Unfortunately did not see this until recently, so too lazy to skim through all the pages but with these batteries, they should always be charged inside a lipo bag. Only reason I know about this is due to RC my son was involved in. When not in use I keep them in the same lipo bag stored on a fire resistant surface. apologies if these points have already been made.

  136. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Risk is the probability of harm multiplied by the magnitude of harm.

    1:21000 is a lot better than the odds of me falling off my bike next time I ride. But losing everything I own in a house fire (including possibly my life or my loved ones) would really, really, really suck. For a game of Russian Roulette, I need much better odds.
    Exactly right. I'm not risking my family or house to save a few bucks on a poorly designed shoddy battery. These guys cut corners and it shows. Getting a battery pack right is not rocket science these days.

    J.

  137. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    Getting a battery pack right is not rocket science these days.

    J.
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  138. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    ...truth is never dumb, it simply is what it is. The sad part is that some people can't see truth, even when someone else takes the time to point it out to them. I can deal with that, as well as the people who disagree with me or my views. My post was intended to enlighten, not to insult. I often use satire to make a point. It sometimes helps to prod to help expand ones view to see the bigger picture. I'm saddened that you thought it was dumb.

    Now as to the other thing....no worries, God ( with a capital G ) is not done with me yet.
    Logic and reason and truth is good. Maybe he meant dog? May his dog have mercy on your soul? Perhaps it's a a partcularly benevolent dog? Like a St bernard with a little cask of whiskey?

  139. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Yes, or MTBR will be a good place to organize a class action lawsuit. I have mountain bike lawyer friend who has offered to help.
    Brilliant! When I was on the CPSC website I couldn't help but notice at least 10 or more mountain bikes with ( supposed ) defects that were being recalled. Yes, yes, indeed, with a good lawyer you just might prove just how dangerous the entire mountain bike industry is. I mean, why limit the suit to a stupid battery. Can't be no real money in that ( Besides the Chinese aren't subject to our civil laws anyway ) Seeing that's the case a good lawyer ( with nothing better to do ) might get lucky and just ban the whole MTB industry. By golly, this is an excellent place to get a great start on that ( don't ya think? ). ( ...now someone please shoot me before I laugh myself to death. )

  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9speed
    Logic and reason and truth is good. Maybe he meant dog? May his dog have mercy on your soul? Perhaps it's a a partcularly benevolent dog? Like a St bernard with a little cask of whiskey?

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  141. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    take your paranoid delusions to the next step.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    My post was intended to enlighten, not to insult.
    You sure had me fooled.

    But, on the off chance that I did in fact misread your intentions... You're completely overlooking the risk/reward tradeoff. Imagine a Russian Roulette game where, if you win, you save a hundred bucks on a bike light, and if you lose, your house burns down while you sleep. Still worth it?

    The odds of a house burning down on any given day are a lot better than 21000:1. If that was the case, houses would stand for an average of less than 60 years. I suspect that the odds of a house burning down, ever, are a lot better than 21k:1 but I'll let you do the math on that since you're so sure.

    I drive cars with airbags, I wear seatbelts, etc, etc, and I charge my Magicshine batteries in the middle of a concrete garage floor with a smoke alarm above them, while I'm at home. No big deal.

    Now look at it from Geoman's point of view. Suppose he sold 1000 lights, and suppose the odds of fire are actually 21k:1 (a number that came from an unrelated product, if you recall (pun intended)). By those odds, he's got a 1:21 chance of losing everything he owns after someone's house burns down and he gets sued. Worth it?

    This recall is a very smart move on his part.

  142. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    dood, excuse me?, where was the "personal attack"?
    You need to stop smoking those Bath Salts
    I thought the bath salts were for snorting.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    You sure had me fooled.

    But, on the off chance that I did in fact misread your intentions... You're completely overlooking the risk/reward tradeoff. Imagine a Russian Roulette game where, if you win, you save a hundred bucks on a bike light, and if you lose, your house burns down while you sleep. Still worth it?

    The odds of a house burning down on any given day are a lot better than 21000:1. If that was the case, houses would stand for an average of less than 60 years. I suspect that the odds of a house burning down, ever, are a lot better than 21k:1 but I'll let you do the math on that since you're so sure.

    I drive cars with airbags, I wear seatbelts, etc, etc, and I charge my Magicshine batteries in the middle of a concrete garage floor with a smoke alarm above them, while I'm at home. No big deal.

    Now look at it from Geoman's point of view. Suppose he sold 1000 lights, and suppose the odds of fire are actually 21k:1 (a number that came from an unrelated product, if you recall (pun intended)). By those odds, he's got a 1:21 chance of losing everything he owns after someone's house burns down and he gets sued. Worth it?

    This recall is a very smart move on his part.
    Maybe I've just drunk too much of the Kool-aid, but what if the recall is because Geomangear thinks it's the right thing to do!?!?
    I know it's rare these days, but there are still some trustworthy bussiness people out there.
    Read bullet 7 on the recall info page "...Customer safety and satisfaction are our top concerns (not the bottom-line)!"
    Last edited by GR1822; 01-24-2011 at 10:57 PM.

  143. #343
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    Holy statistical illiteracy, Batman!

  144. #344
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    lol

    What are they teaching you feckers in school? It's a good job you lot don't have passports!

  145. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    You sure had me fooled.

    But, on the off chance that I did in fact misread your intentions... You're completely overlooking the risk/reward tradeoff. Imagine a Russian Roulette game where, if you win, you save a hundred bucks on a bike light, and if you lose, your house burns down while you sleep. Still worth it?

    The odds of a house burning down on any given day are a lot better than 21000:1. If that was the case, houses would stand for an average of less than 60 years. I suspect that the odds of a house burning down, ever, are a lot better than 21k:1 but I'll let you do the math on that since you're so sure.

    I drive cars with airbags, I wear seatbelts, etc, etc, and I charge my Magicshine batteries in the middle of a concrete garage floor with a smoke alarm above them, while I'm at home. No big deal.

    Now look at it from Geoman's point of view. Suppose he sold 1000 lights, and suppose the odds of fire are actually 21k:1 (a number that came from an unrelated product, if you recall (pun intended)). By those odds, he's got a 1:21 chance of losing everything he owns after someone's house burns down and he gets sued. Worth it?

    This recall is a very smart move on his part.
    tee hee.,.. saved for posterity before you catch wind and edit it..... lol

  146. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    ...Now look at it from Geoman's point of view. Suppose he sold 1000 lights, and suppose the odds of fire are actually 21k:1 (a number that came from an unrelated product, if you recall (pun intended)). By those odds, he's got a 1:21 chance of losing everything he owns after someone's house burns down and he gets sued. Worth it?

    This recall is a very smart move on his part.
    BTW, according to your math, if 21,000 units were sold there is a 100% chance of failure. I'm no math guy, but I'm pretty sure it don't work that way.

  147. #347
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    9speed, where did I go wrong?

  148. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Maybe I've just drunk too much of the Kool-aid, but what if the recall is because Geomangear thinks it's the right thing to do!?!?
    Who says it's not?

  149. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    BTW, according to your math, if 21,000 units were sold there is a 100% chance of failure. I'm no math guy, but I'm pretty sure it don't work that way.
    The premise there was a 1:21000 chance of failure (taken from another product's probability of catching fire, based on a recall notice for that product). So yeah, I figure if you sell 21,000 there would be a near certainty of failure happening. Am I wrong?

    That premise is debatable, and the probability of a failure leading to a burned-down house is not 1:1.

  150. #350
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    I don't know where this 21000 rubbish came from

    Theres only two possibilities here.
    • Your battery will burn your house down
    • Your battery wont burn your house down

    So with only two possible outcomes each gets a 50% probability.
    For those who enjoy complex mathematical problems thats 100% divided by 2

    THATS RIGHT YOUR HOUSE HAS A 50% CHANCE OF BURNING DOWN TONIGHT.


    Just ask Walter...
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  151. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    I don't know where this 21000 rubbish came from
    Divide.

    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    PS, heres how serious an incident you need to have for a recall:
    [...]
    Units: About 42,000
    [...]
    Incidents/Injuries: The company has received two reports of overheated lamps.
    So, for the sake of discussion, let's...

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Suppose he sold 1000 lights, and suppose the odds of fire are actually 21k:1 (a number that came from an unrelated product, if you recall (pun intended)).
    Any clearer now?

    Next you're going to ask me why I think he sold exactly one thousand lights, aren't you?

  152. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS

    Any clearer now?
    Did you watch the link?

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...adron-collider

  153. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    ....But, on the off chance that I did in fact misread your intentions... You're completely overlooking the risk/reward tradeoff. Imagine a Russian Roulette game where, if you win, you save a hundred bucks on a bike light, and if you lose, your house burns down while you sleep. Still worth it?

    The odds of a house burning down on any given day are a lot better than 21000:1. If that was the case, houses would stand for an average of less than 60 years. I suspect that the odds of a house burning down, ever, are a lot better than 21k:1 but I'll let you do the math on that since you're so sure.

    I drive cars with airbags, I wear seatbelts, etc, etc, and I charge my Magicshine batteries in the middle of a concrete garage floor with a smoke alarm above them, while I'm at home. No big deal.
    Nope, I accept the risk/reward because I know the odds of one of these batteries bursting into flames ( under my care ) would be greater than the odds of me winning the Mega Million lottery. However that is my perception. I can't speak directly for others but there are millions of products sold that are using Li-ion technology ( once again I am pointing to the big picture ). The technology is reasonably safe and has been improved upon in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean there aren't bad battery packs out there. Reasonable safety precautions are called for. There is no CPSC recall of the MS battery that I see on their website. Like I have said before, if there were more reported cases of the MS battery going up in smoke I think the government would issue a recall.

    Once again risk assessment is a personal call. More people have died ( or almost died ) in cars than you will care to know. THAT IS A FACT. Yet most of us, including me are willing to accept the odds because we need to live in the modern world. Your air bags and seatbelts can fail ( or simply not be enough to save you from that 18 wheeler jack knifing in front of you ). Brakes fail, steering fails, you name it , it can fail. We live in a dangerous modern world. Death and danger lurks everywhere regardless of our many safety precautions. I don't know about you but I sleep fine at night. If my place goes up in smoke it will be because I forgot to turn my gas range off or I forgot to unplug the heat pad or one of my neighbors will do something in their apartment ( causing a fire ) that will set my place on fire as well. It won't be because of one of my batteries going up in flame. I'm sure there are statistics somewhere that could prove it but I don't need no stinking statistics because to me it's just common sense. That is my assessment of the risks. I already know it doesn't jive with yours. If I can drive for a living and put my life at risk every day I can certainly live with a couple batteries charging in a bake pan inside my home..

    Guys, I think I need to get off this thread for a while cause it has gotten a little strange ( if you catch my drift )...
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 01-25-2011 at 05:27 AM.

  154. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    If you bought it from GeoManGear, use it with caution untill a remedy is announced. If you bought it somewhere else, use it with caution. Other than that do your own research.

    If it's truly "brand new", it's still under the 90 day warranty. IIRC, Geoman is offering full refunds for systems still under warranty.

  155. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    The technology is reasonably safe and has been improved upon in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean there aren't bad battery packs out there. Reasonable safety precautions are called for. There is no CPSC recall of the MS battery that I see on their website. Like I have said before, if there were more reported cases of the MS battery going up in smoke I think the government would issue a recall.
    Saying there's no CSPC recall is very disingenuous. Did you happen to notice the recalls for the Dinotte and Lights and Motion lights on the CPSC site? Like with most of the MTB-related ones there, they are voluntary ones intitiated by the companies who sold the products, just like Geoman has said they have done. If you look closely at the date listed in the recall, you'll see that there's two years or more between when the product was sold and when CPSC officially announced the recall. With the Geoman battery situation we're still within that timing. If the "government" issues a recall without the company volunteering to do it can take a hell of a lot longer.


    You'll also notice that in almost all the MTB-related recalls, there's a remedy in place in the form of a refund or replacement. A class action lawsuit was only mentioned here in the event of a remedy (i.e. a replacement) NOT being offered. Saying that someone who would intitiate a lawsuit like this to get the remedy to which they're entitled is trying to "ban" the entire MTBing industry for being too dangerous is a such a amazing leap of logic that you should be in a circus or something.

  156. #356
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    Ah the internet! The perfect place to make up statistics, and then argue about them not being entirely accurate. Keep going though, this is entertaining.
    "Got everything you need?"

  157. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by klydesdale
    Saying there's no CSPC recall is very disingenuous. Did you happen to notice the recalls for the Dinotte and Lights and Motion lights on the CPSC site? .
    Since when is stating a fact "disingenuous"? I thought when someone lies or distorts the truth, that is being disingenuous. Yes, I saw the other recalls. Dinotte and L&M recalled their own product and sent new stuff out without delay. MagicShine or Geoman hasn't. Who knows if they will? Our government could ban the product but will they? I have no crystal ball, who knows? Geoman is covering his own a** for his own reasons. I won't fault him for that but the delay with the promised replacement battery is starting to get old. I think he should of found a replacement battery FIRST and then started the recall but that's just my opinion. It's just possible that someone has already threatened him with a law suit. Maybe that is why he has jumped the gun, so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by klydesdale
    ....You'll also notice that in almost all the MTB-related recalls, there's a remedy in place in the form of a refund or replacement. A class action lawsuit was only mentioned here in the event of a remedy (i.e. a replacement) NOT being offered. Saying that someone who would intitiate a lawsuit like this to get the remedy to which they're entitled is trying to "ban" the entire MTBing industry for being too dangerous is a such a amazing leap of logic that you should be in a circus or something.
    It seems you don't understand my facetious humor. My comment to slocaus's post was total tongue in cheek, not to mention you are trying to explain someone else's post and what their intent was when they made the comment about the "Class action law suit". My reaction to his post was to assume the worse. Someone wants to sue the small business man and put him out of business. That was my take on it. If I'm wrong, so what. My guess is as good as yours. Regardless, I still don't like civil lawyers.

    Anyway, there is not a company out there ( other than complete hucktsers ) that won't offer replacements for a product when under the warranty period. If your Giant frame cracks most dealers will replace it. However if you buy a product and somehow hurt yourself because you didn't know how to handle it properly, that is not the fault of the manufacture. ( go to BatterySpace and look at their disclaimers ).

    Once lawyers get involved they usually go for the jugular. They will distort truth if they have to so they can win. That is their job, their goal, to get the big bucks. If someone wants to sue Geoman personally, that is their business but I think that very sad. A class action lawsuit takes that to another level. Talk about your circus, THAT is a CIRCUS!. I wasn't the one that first brought up the issue of lawsuits. I never under estimate the ability of some people to be greedy or to lie to achieve their own personal goals once the lawyers get involved. It happens every day. If I'm wrong about it this time, so what. Excuse me for being pessimistic.

    Yes, Twoheads...the saga continues....
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 01-26-2011 at 01:50 AM.

  158. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    Nope, I accept the risk/reward because I know the odds of one of these batteries bursting into flames ( under my care ) would be greater than the odds of me winning the Mega Million lottery. However that is my perception.
    My perception is that more magicshine owners have experienced fire than have won the mega million lottery. Perhaps infinitely more, division-by-zero being what it is.

    The maturity of lithium cells as a technology has little or no bearing on the behavior of packs of unmatched cells when used with cheap chargers. But hey, if naivete helps you sleep at night, you go right on telling yourself whatever barely-relevant facts make you feel better.

  159. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Holy statistical illiteracy, Batman!
    Who? Where? Please elaborate.

  160. #360
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    It's nice to check in here and see the children are still poking each other with sticks.

  161. #361
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    Hey guys, there is updated info on our Recall Page, we will be updating more regularly as we make progress. Thanks again for your patience.

    http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...age=page&id=17

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Divide.



    So, for the sake of discussion, let's...



    Any clearer now?

    Next you're going to ask me why I think he sold exactly one thousand lights, aren't you?
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  162. #362
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    Great read Geoman way to put it all out there.
    Thanks for the update, look forward to the new batteries
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  163. #363
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    Wow, so we will be getting a fantastic value with our original MS900 purchase(s). 4400mah! Thanks Geoman.
    "It looks flexy"

  164. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    Divide.



    So, for the sake of discussion, let's...



    Any clearer now?

    Next you're going to ask me why I think he sold exactly one thousand lights, aren't you?
    Well, now we know it's 15,000 lightsets and 20,000 battery packs. Schizer.
    "It looks flexy"

  165. #365
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    Our design features premium quality cells, sophisticated intelligent PCB and a lightweight plastic casing. We know it has taken longer than expected but we are sure a quality replacement will be worth the wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Wow, so we will be getting a fantastic value with our original MS900 purchase(s). 4400mah! Thanks Geoman.
    Last edited by GEOMAN; 01-26-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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  166. #366
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    Much appreciated update, Geo!
    15,000 lights sold... that's going some! It hurts to have to replace 20,000 batteries but there's obviously a huge market out there for competitively priced performance lights and you're building a ton of goodwill with your honesty.
    BTW, are these new batteries exclusive to Geoman? I sure hope so after all the trouble you have gone to.

  167. #367
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    Thanks so much we really appreciate the feedback, no doubt that it's a huge project. They will be exclusive GeoManGear battery packs and will be manufactured in California to US standards. We are expecting a high quality, reliable and durable battery pack from our manufacturer. Going this route has taken longer than we wanted but we need to be certain that we send our customers a safe replacement for the Magicshine batteries.


    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    Much appreciated update, Geo!
    15,000 lights sold... that's going some! It hurts to have to replace 20,000 batteries but there's obviously a huge market out there for competitively priced performance lights and you're building a ton of goodwill with your honesty.
    BTW, are these new batteries exclusive to Geoman? I sure hope so after all the trouble you have gone to.
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  168. #368
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    Glad to see the update Geoman. I was trusting you guys enough to hold onto, rather than return, the set I got in late October. Looking forward to the new battery packs.
    Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand things with alloys and compositions and things with ... molecular structures.

  169. #369
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    I assume these batteries will also eventually end up for sale "aftermarket" (or more specifically, not just as recall replacements). I will be curious to see the price on them.

  170. #370
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    Bravo, Geoman.

  171. #371
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    Geoman, Glad to hear things are moving along. Hope you weren't bothered too much by my occasional prods ( Hey it's what I do to make sure we MTB'ers are not ignored. ) Still, from what your website said, the ETA for the new battery is sometime in April 2011. That's still a wait but hopefully ( on a positive note ) they will be out before the nice weather rolls around.

    Interesting that your battery will offer a more advanced PCB. To me I think this will make it a "stand out product", not to mention a great selling point. Not only do you get the built-in protection put into all Li-ion cells but you get a PCB with a temp. control cut-off ( as well as the standard PBC cut-offs I presume ). If I understand correctly that gives your batteries another layer of protection not offered by most. It would be nice to hear a little more about how that protects the battery. Would be nice if you could offer some documentation on this new PCB/battery set-up.

    Anyway, I look forward to the release. I also look forward to the dissections and the reviews. If all goes well you could find yourself selling more batteries than anything else. Humm...just realized, no mention was made about what these are going to cost. Any comment on what these will sell for and how they will be marketed if sold with the MS?

    Speaking of new stuff, is there going to be an upgraded version of the MagicShine lighthead using an XM-L... ( Oh that would be nice.... )

  172. #372
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    Hi Cat, no worries, we understand that the forums are a place to voice opinions. With regard to the GeoManGear Li Ion pack, it will have a new layer of protection which will prevent charging in extreme temps plus it will have termination just like a smart charger so it will reach full charge and then prevent trickle charging. Our Li Ion expert dealt directly with the manufacturer to make sure the PCB was designed to incorporate the best safety features, including the standard and advanced protection previously mentioned.

    Unfortunately April will be the first major shipment of these new batteries, we have tried to expedite the rollout however it seems corners would have to be cut to produce UN/DOT/CPSC tested packs in less time, which is definitely not our plan. We do have a huge number of packs arriving in April and we are anxious to get these sent out to all of you. We plan to retail these packs as individual items and we have had a number of different lightheads tested to make sure they will be compatible, the batteries will still be priced very reasonably. This process has kept our small team extremely busy in the last few months, as we mentioned in previous posts; the wheels were always turning behind the scenes and we are really excited to get the business rolling again.

    We have been discussing Cree XM-L lightheads however I think it's a little too soon to expect them this early in the year. Definitely exciting times, it will be nice to see someone bring a 2000 lumen triple XM-L to the market.

    Thanks again to all our friends and supporters on MTBR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    Geoman, Glad to hear things are moving along. Hope you weren't bothered too much by my occasional prods ( Hey it's what I do to make sure we MTB'ers are not ignored. ) Still, from what your website said, the ETA for the new battery is sometime in April 2011. That's still a wait but hopefully ( on a positive note ) they will be out before the nice weather rolls around.

    Interesting that your battery will offer a more advanced PCB. To me I think this will make it a "stand out product", not to mention a great selling point. Not only do you get the built-in protection put into all Li-ion cells but you get a PCB with a temp. control cut-off ( as well as the standard PBC cut-offs I presume ). If I understand correctly that gives your batteries another layer of protection not offered by most. It would be nice to hear a little more about how that protects the battery. Would be nice if you could offer some documentation on this new PCB/battery set-up.

    Anyway, I look forward to the release. I also look forward to the dissections and the reviews. If all goes well you could find yourself selling more batteries than anything else. Humm...just realized, no mention was made about what these are going to cost. Any comment on what these will sell for and how they will be marketed if sold with the MS?

    Speaking of new stuff, is there going to be an upgraded version of the MagicShine lighthead using an XM-L... ( Oh that would be nice.... )
    GeoMan
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  173. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    Hi Cat, no worries, we understand that the forums are a place to voice opinions. With regard to the GeoManGear Li Ion pack, it will have a new layer of protection which will prevent charging in extreme temps plus it will have termination just like a smart charger so it will reach full charge and then prevent trickle charging. Our Li Ion expert dealt directly with the manufacturer to make sure the PCB was designed to incorporate the best safety features, including the standard and advanced protection previously mentioned.

    Unfortunately April will be the first major shipment of these new batteries, we have tried to expedite the rollout however it seems corners would have to be cut to produce UN/DOT/CPSC tested packs in less time, which is definitely not our plan. We do have a huge number of packs arriving in April and we are anxious to get these sent out to all of you. We plan to retail these packs as individual items and we have had a number of different lightheads tested to make sure they will be compatible, the batteries will still be priced very reasonably. This process has kept our small team extremely busy in the last few months, as we mentioned in previous posts; the wheels were always turning behind the scenes and we are really excited to get the business rolling again.

    We have been discussing Cree XM-L lightheads however I think it's a little too soon to expect them this early in the year. Definitely exciting times, it will be nice to see someone bring a 2000 lumen triple XM-L to the market.

    Thanks again to all our friends and supporters on MTBR.
    So who gets the first packs? The ones who ordered first or the one with the most lights/batteries?

    I assume this is a picture of the new pack...and what about the ones of use who paid extra for the battery with the metal case?


  174. #374
    GeoMan
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    Hi GTR, no this pictured pack is actually a German made Magicshine compatible pack from Open-Light Systems that we have been testing, they are very lightweight, waterproof and reliable (also very expensive).

    You raised a very good point with regard to the casing. This is one of the major factors contributing to the design of our own GeoManGear battery pack, it will have a hard plastic casing that allows a velcrow strap to be used to strap it under the stem, on the post or downtube. We wanted to make sure we replaced your existing packs with a hard cased pack, there was nothing available already in production that had the features we needed (premium quality cells, compatible intelligent PCB, hard casing and of course 20,000 of them). That's why we have had to take the time to produce them ourselves.

    We are waiting for the CPSC to give us the thumbsup on rolling out the recall notice which will provide the specifics on replacement order. Since this is not approved we can't disclose how it will work but we anticipate that it will be very soon. Meanwhile the battery production continues in the background

    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike
    So who gets the first packs? The ones who ordered first or the one with the most lights/batteries?

    I assume this is a picture of the new pack...and what about the ones of use who paid extra for the battery with the metal case?

    GeoMan
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  175. #375
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    I would assume that anyone posting in this thread would receive their packs from the first batch .
    "It looks flexy"

  176. #376
    GeoMan
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    The faster someone reponds to the recall notice the faster they will receive their replacement. We expect an initial rush, especially from those of you that are actively involved in these threads and have a huge number of packs being delivered in April.

    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I would assume that anyone posting in this thread would receive their packs from the first batch .
    GeoMan
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  177. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I would assume that anyone posting in this thread would receive their packs from the first batch .
    I'm sure Geoman has been keeping a naughty/nice list, and those of us who have kept the faith will be well rewarded.

  178. #378
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    We know it's been frustrating for all of you, us too. We wanted to have this done much sooner but finding the right manufacturer then designing and manufacturing a US approved pack simply takes this amount of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    I'm sure Geoman has been keeping a naughty/nice list, and those of us who have kept the faith will be well rewarded.
    Last edited by GEOMAN; 01-27-2011 at 01:16 PM.
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  179. #379
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    I've got six batteries at home (why be a firefly when you can be a train?) so I hope that I get in for the first batch of recalls!

  180. #380
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    Here Are Some Stats For You...

    2 confirmed cases of defect out of approximately 20,000 batteries sold by Geomangear, according to their web page. Based on that, odds are about 1 in 10,000 that you will experience a (serious) defect.

    For comparison, according to the National Safety Council:
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in this year alone: 1 IN 6,500.
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in your lifetime: 1 IN 83.


    Perhaps we should all stop driving and start biking?

  181. #381
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    4 batteries here.
    What would be great is if everybody that gets a recall battery, buys a backup from GeoMan as well.
    I'm sure the $$ rolling in will help offset everything a little.
    I bet this has got to be pretty expensive......but I knew GoeMan would come through.
    I'm sure the initial run of packs will be for recall users, and once satisfied there will be some available for sale.
    I bet the setup and specing of the PCB cost a good chunk of change.
    But look on the bright side, you'll have production setup for all the backup packs that I'm sure you'll sell.
    Great work Geoman!
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  182. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette
    2 confirmed cases of defect out of approximately 20,000 batteries sold by Geomangear, according to their web page. Based on that, odds are about 1 in 10,000 that you will experience a (serious) defect.

    For comparison, according to the National Safety Council:
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in this year alone: 1 IN 6,500.
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in your lifetime: 1 IN 83.


    Perhaps we should all stop driving and start biking?
    I read recently that the main cause of death in Irish travellers in car crash. In fact, the main cause of death in young men aged under 30 generally is car crash closely followed by suicide.

  183. #383
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    So I have a BRAND NEW IN THE BOX light... Should I just ask for a refund or have my CC company reverse the charge and be done with this...?

    My wife wants to ride with me at night and in order to do so i need a light she canb use. That means I have to spend money because I cannot use the defective product we bought. I'd rather have my money back. Is that reasonable?
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  184. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    So I have a BRAND NEW IN THE BOX light... Should I just ask for a refund or have my CC company reverse the charge and be done with this...?

    My wife wants to ride with me at night and in order to do so i need a light she canb use. That means I have to spend money because I cannot use the defective product we bought. I'd rather have my money back. Is that reasonable?
    Uhhh, ask if you can return it for your money back.
    Also, put your pants on BEFORE your socks and shoes.

  185. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Uhhh, ask if you can return it for your money back.
    Also, put your pants on BEFORE your socks and shoes.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  186. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    We have been discussing Cree XM-L lightheads however I think it's a little too soon to expect them this early in the year. Definitely exciting times, it will be nice to see someone bring a 2000 lumen triple XM-L to the market.

    Thanks again to all our friends and supporters on MTBR.
    Appreciate the update Geoman. Despite a few naysayers, there are those who knew you would pull through!

    Apparently, quad XML's are already in the works: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=305459&page=1

    Image below borrowed from CPF:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Magicshine Lights Announcement-img_0005.jpg  


  187. #387
    GeoMan
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    Please contact us directly, use the [email protected] address

    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    So I have a BRAND NEW IN THE BOX light... Should I just ask for a refund or have my CC company reverse the charge and be done with this...?

    My wife wants to ride with me at night and in order to do so i need a light she canb use. That means I have to spend money because I cannot use the defective product we bought. I'd rather have my money back. Is that reasonable?
    GeoMan
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  188. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette
    2 confirmed cases of defect out of approximately 20,000 batteries sold by Geomangear, according to their web page. Based on that, odds are about 1 in 10,000 that you will experience a (serious) defect.

    For comparison, according to the National Safety Council:
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in this year alone: 1 IN 6,500.
    • Odds of dying in a car crash in your lifetime: 1 IN 83.


    Perhaps we should all stop driving and start biking?
    I think Geoman sold 15000 MS and 20,000 extra batteries, that should up the count but then again that's just one vendor. I'm sure there are many more MS owners that have bought their light from other sources and we have no figures on those. I had no idea though that GM had sold that many light sets...Whew! Not to mention also that those two cases mentioned were probably the extreme cases where something really bad happened. There were probably many more cases of mismatch cells that just didn't work as well as they should have ( but posed no other threat ). We have no real number for those.

    Now about those stat's on the car crashes. I won't argue the first number but the second number ( 1 in 83 ?)....hummmm....somehow that sounds a little extreme. Common sense tells me it would have to vary by location as well. I mean if you live in N.J. I would think you would have more risk than someone living in Stickville, Montana. Anyway, I should have stuck with the car/crash/die comparison. It makes more sense. Using the MegaMillion lottery comparison...well...okay, that was a bit out toward left field.. Guess I got a little carried away, my bad.

  189. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Uhhh, ask if you can return it for your money back.
    Also, put your pants on BEFORE your socks and shoes.
    I did... I received a response about the battery recall.

    I see that the GEOMAN guy can come here and post today (multiple times..in fact) but cannot reply to my email. That's not what I would call "good" customer service.

    As a former small business owner I wish them well and don't want to add to thier burden... as a consumer I'd like to not have to spend additional monies to get a light that is safe to use for my wife.

    Make sense?
    Monte
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  190. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    Please contact us directly, use the address
    I followed the instructions on your website...

    I'l use the above address now.

    Thanks
    Monte
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  191. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by savagemann
    4 batteries here.
    What would be great is if everybody that gets a recall battery, buys a backup from GeoMan as well.
    I'm sure the $$ rolling in will help offset everything a little.
    I bet this has got to be pretty expensive......but I knew GoeMan would come through.
    I'm sure the initial run of packs will be for recall users, and once satisfied there will be some available for sale.
    I bet the setup and specing of the PCB cost a good chunk of change.
    But look on the bright side, you'll have production setup for all the backup packs that I'm sure you'll sell.
    Great work Geoman!
    I'd be happy to pay a discounted rate for a quality replacement battery pack. It's great if it's replaced free of charge, but I'd rather still have a good vendor when this is all over with. I'd prefer that over having a free battery and Geoman out of business.
    "Got everything you need?"

  192. #392
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    GeoMan,

    Thanks for the update. I have been searching for a battery pack manufacturer for a non-bike, non-light related product (in other words we are not competing with you in any way) and will be contacting Totex soon. You rock!

  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY
    I did... I received a response about the battery recall.

    I see that the GEOMAN guy can come here and post today (multiple times..in fact) but cannot reply to my email. That's not what I would call "good" customer service.

    As a former small business owner I wish them well and don't want to add to thier burden... as a consumer I'd like to not have to spend additional monies to get a light that is safe to use for my wife.

    Make sense?
    No, it doesn't make sense:
    1-If you already asked for a refund, then why are you asking if you should ask for a refund?
    2-Who said you'll have to spend any additional monies to get a light that is safe to use for your wife?

  194. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    Much appreciated update, Geo!
    15,000 lights sold... that's going some! It hurts to have to replace 20,000 batteries but there's obviously a huge market out there for competitively priced performance lights and you're building a ton of goodwill with your honesty.
    BTW, are these new batteries exclusive to Geoman? I sure hope so after all the trouble you have gone to.
    I don't envy GEOMAN. In this time they have basically been out of business and spending money, there are several competitors that have sprung up. Its gonna be a tough road back, and they are gonna take it in the shorts replacing batteries.

  195. #395
    GeoMan
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    We sorted it all of this out via direct email communication shortly after the initial post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    No, it doesn't make sense:
    1-If you already asked for a refund, then why are you asking if you should ask for a refund?
    2-Who said you'll have to spend any additional monies to get a light that is safe to use for your wife?
    GeoMan
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  196. #396
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    I'm glad I found this thread, and I'm surprised that even with just two incidents there wasn't a mass email stating to discontinue use. I'm still using mine, though charging and storing it with more attention.
    Geoman customer service is awesome on all fronts from both personal and public experiences. Geoman will come through, and I'll continue to support them.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  197. #397
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    I would definitely be down to buy a spare battery if/when I get a free replacement for the possibly defective one.
    Geomans service has been first rate and I'd like to see that continue.

    Waiting patiently...

    sam

  198. #398
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    I bought a MS from an ebay vendor just after Geoman pulled the product because I really wanted one for winter.

    I'll probably buy one of Geoman's new packs, and maybe a second head for my bars with a new pack too once they are available.

  199. #399
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    As the ultimate skeptic I have got to say I'm floored with Geoman's backing of this product. If new battery packs are made available free of charge my jaw will hit the floor! Guess I'm just used to getting a big "FU" from most companies when the s**t hits the fan.

    I have the utmost respect for Geoman and agree with "Two Heads", I would even be willing to pay a small fee if these new batteries are as good as they say they will be. Guess I'm just easily sated, lol.

    I'm running three MS's and agree that they are a great bang for the buck, especially with a quality new battery pack! I would think Geo will come out ahead in the end carrying one of the most cost effective (and seemingly progressive) light systems if they can just weather this storm... "two thumbs" to Geoman.

  200. #400
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoDust
    As the ultimate skeptic...
    Are you part of the class action lawsuit? If not, you may be among the penultimate skeptics.

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