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  1. #1
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    Lights like philips safe ride?

    From what I recall these had a low beam pattern more like an edelux II.

    Have any other lights like it been made?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    From what I recall these had a low beam pattern more like an edelux II.

    Have any other lights like it been made?
    Cutoff lamps...not really my cup of tea. As far as battery powered cutoff lamps there are slim pick'ins. The Specialized Flux Elite looks interesting though. Output limited to 400 lumens.

    Some other offerings talked about over on CPF.

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    There are some but none with as good beampattern as the saferide had.

    B&M ixon iq

    Richfire sf-619
    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...t-1000706.html

    I would love to see more lights like this on the roads.

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    The Ituo Wiz20's front bezel's hooded design modifies the beam pattern somewhat. The bezel of the new Ituo Wiz XP2 lacks the hood, and it's interchangeable with the Wiz20's bezel. Forum fiddlers have swapped them and noted the difference.

    The Wiz lights and some others allow easy optic changes, so the beam patterns can be tuned. Not a true cutoff reflector design, but it shows that Ituo put some thought into on-road use. Ituo also uses warmer, neutral white LEDs, which most people find to be less offensive than colder bluish LEDs used in some lights.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...20-996544.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...ht-997807.html

    IMO, it won't be long before traffic regulations catch up with high output bicycle lights used on the road.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by flat View Post
    The Ituo Wiz20's front bezel's hooded design modifies the beam pattern somewhat. The bezel of the new Ituo Wiz XP2 lacks the hood, and it's interchangeable with the Wiz20's bezel. Forum fiddlers have swapped them and noted the difference.

    The Wiz lights and some others allow easy optic changes, so the beam patterns can be tuned. Not a true cutoff reflector design, but it shows that Ituo put some thought into on-road use. Ituo also uses warmer, neutral white LEDs, which most people find to be less offensive than colder bluish LEDs used in some lights.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...20-996544.html

    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...ht-997807.html

    IMO, it won't be long before traffic regulations catch up with high output bicycle lights used on the road.
    A while back Gloworm indicated they were working on a cut-off beam optic for their CX series lights. Those are modern self-contained lights in the 900 - 1300 lumen range that are programmable and have long run times. Adding a cut-off beam would make for some very good commuter lights and something to look forward to. Love my Wiz20 though so I won't suffer till someone comes out with something better.
    Mole

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flat View Post
    ...IMO, it won't be long before traffic regulations catch up with high output bicycle lights used on the road.
    I don't know about that. I'm thinking just the opposite. I'm seeing more and more motorized vehicles with brighter headlights. ( *point being if car headlights are getting brighter why would anyone care what lights are on a bike ) Just the other day I heard a news report on the radio that said several vehicle manufactures were recalling a number of models, "Because the headlights were not giving the owners enough distance throw". Who would of thought. Then again I had to tell my supervisors at work some months ago that the new Ford mini vans they bought had only about 50 ft. of throw when on low-beam ( with an extreme cut-off ) ( High beams were okay ). The lousiest headlights I ever saw on a new vehicle . I told boss-man that if I had to drive one of those I was likely going to hit the first deer to step out in front of me. Must of been something more to it other than my opinion because we were told ( by corporate ) they weren't going to buy anymore of them.

    Anyway, that said I don't see too many people using high output bike lights on the road. Few laws get passed unless there is a perceived problem or threat to the public in general. The people who are making the laws right now seem more concerned about safety and people being able to see at night ( while driving ). With that in mind, I doubt they'd try to pass a law limiting the output of a bike light because people on bikes need to see ( and be seen ) too.

    It wouldn't bother me though if a law was passed limiting the output of bike lights to ~2000 lumen ( about what a single car headlight outputs ). I could live with that. I generally only use about 500 lumen on the road myself unless I'm riding down a fast hill. Of course if things went the other way and laws limited cyclist to < 500 lumen ....I'd just ignore the law. I really doubt that would happen though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I don't know about that. I'm thinking just the opposite. I'm seeing more and more motorized vehicles with brighter headlights. ( *point being if car headlights are getting brighter why would anyone care what lights are on a bike ) Just the other day I heard a news report on the radio that said several vehicle manufactures were recalling a number of models, "Because the headlights were not giving the owners enough distance throw". Who would of thought. Then again I had to tell my supervisors at work some months ago that the new Ford mini vans they bought had only about 50 ft. of throw when on low-beam ( with an extreme cut-off ) ( High beams were okay ). The lousiest headlights I ever saw on a new vehicle . I told boss-man that if I had to drive one of those I was likely going to hit the first deer to step out in front of me. Must of been something more to it other than my opinion because we were told ( by corporate ) they weren't going to buy anymore of them.

    Anyway, that said I don't see too many people using high output bike lights on the road. Few laws get passed unless there is a perceived problem or threat to the public in general. The people who are making the laws right now seem more concerned about safety and people being able to see at night ( while driving ). With that in mind, I doubt they'd try to pass a law limiting the output of a bike light because people on bikes need to see ( and be seen ) too.

    It wouldn't bother me though if a law was passed limiting the output of bike lights to ~2000 lumen ( about what a single car headlight outputs ). I could live with that. I generally only use about 500 lumen on the road myself unless I'm riding down a fast hill. Of course if things went the other way and laws limited cyclist to < 500 lumen ....I'd just ignore the law. I really doubt that would happen though.
    Just a guess, but weak vehicle lights may be a sign of improving fuel efficiency and cost cutting through lazy engineering. Skimping on the electrical system saves production costs, and running lights at the lowest legal output saves fuel. Stupid way to hit your design numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    An upper lumen limit on cycle lights might happen if cheap 6000 lm lights make it to eBay, but I was thinking more that having a poorly aimed, +1500 lm cool white strobe firing in motorists' eyes presents a safety hazard. I haven't looked, but I'll bet there are already some cheeseball lights capable of that today. As light output increases and cost/lm decreases, that's going to happen more frequently.

    Traffic laws already apply to drivers failing to dim their high beams for oncoming vehicles, and for using off-road lights on a roadway - both laws are directly related to safety. Something similar could be created to address cyclists running off-road lights on-road, or to regulate strobing, etc. Unfortunately, it'll be irresponsible cyclists creating a need for the laws, not folks that are truly interested in safe, effective lighting.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by flat View Post
    Just a guess, but weak vehicle lights may be a sign of improving fuel efficiency and cost cutting through lazy engineering. Skimping on the electrical system saves production costs, and running lights at the lowest legal output saves fuel. Stupid way to hit your design numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    An upper lumen limit on cycle lights might happen if cheap 6000 lm lights make it to eBay, but I was thinking more that having a poorly aimed, +1500 lm cool white strobe firing in motorists' eyes presents a safety hazard. I haven't looked, but I'll bet there are already some cheeseball lights capable of that today. As light output increases and cost/lm decreases, that's going to happen more frequently.

    Traffic laws already apply to drivers failing to dim their high beams for oncoming vehicles, and for using off-road lights on a roadway - both laws are directly related to safety. Something similar could be created to address cyclists running off-road lights on-road, or to regulate strobing, etc. Unfortunately, it'll be irresponsible cyclists creating a need for the laws, not folks that are truly interested in safe, effective lighting.
    Oh I think it was just poor headlight design... period. This kind of thing happens when you try to create an aesthetically pleasing appearance to the front end of a vehicle and then run out of room ( behind the grill ) to accommodate the needed design/space to make a good headlight assembly. Just poor planning IMO. Those new Ford mini work vans are pieces of ( you know what ). I told the boss that there was so much road noise ( at highway speed ) inside the cab that it sounded like a door was open as I was driving down the road...no lie.

    At the time I see no reason to regulate bike lights. Technically, there are no bike lamp manufactures that I know ( off hand ) that exclusively market their bike lamps as "off road" ONLY. Mini-front flashers, Daytime rear red and front Amber ( both flashing ) lamps, are becoming industry standards for road cycling safety and they are becoming both brighter, affordable and more generally more known by the public every day. There are even legal accessories you can buy for motorcycles that make their front lights appear to flash. There's also a rear light version too, all street legal ( so I'm told ). I figure someone got the idea ( like me ) that if motorcycles had a "front flash" option that having that option just might make the motorcyclist more visible to cross traffic. The video I saw of the product was very convincing. If my work buddy had one of those on his motorcycle he might very well be alive today. ( killed by a person driving an SUV hanging a left at an intersection )

    Parting comment; The Police can't realistically enforce the over-usage of high-beams on motor vehicles. That's because ( like I said before ) that there are so many vehicles on the road with either super bright headlights or bright multiple front lamps that you can't tell high beams from just a vehicle with bright lights. If you're a cop, how do you tell if someone is running high beams? You can't. In most cases the "high beam" law ( for all intensive purposes ) is unenforceable.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Oh I think it was just poor headlight design... period. This kind of thing happens when you try to create an aesthetically pleasing appearance to the front end of a vehicle and then run out of room ( behind the grill ) to accommodate the needed design/space to make a good headlight assembly. Just poor planning IMO. Those new Ford mini work vans are pieces of ( you know what ). I told the boss that there was so much road noise ( at highway speed ) inside the cab that it sounded like a door was open as I was driving down the road...no lie.

    At the time I see no reason to regulate bike lights. Technically, there are no bike lamp manufactures that I know ( off hand ) that exclusively market their bike lamps as "off road" ONLY. Mini-front flashers, Daytime rear red and front Amber ( both flashing ) lamps, are becoming industry standards for road cycling safety and they are becoming both brighter, affordable and more generally more known by the public every day. There are even legal accessories you can buy for motorcycles that make their front lights appear to flash. There's also a rear light version too, all street legal ( so I'm told ). I figure someone got the idea ( like me ) that if motorcycles had a "front flash" option that having that option just might make the motorcyclist more visible to cross traffic. The video I saw of the product was very convincing. If my work buddy had one of those on his motorcycle he might very well be alive today. ( killed by a person driving an SUV hanging a left at an intersection )

    Parting comment; The Police can't realistically enforce the over-usage of high-beams on motor vehicles. That's because ( like I said before ) that there are so many vehicles on the road with either super bright headlights or bright multiple front lamps that you can't tell high beams from just a vehicle with bright lights. If you're a cop, how do you tell if someone is running high beams? You can't. In most cases the "high beam" law ( for all intensive purposes ) is unenforceable.
    You're still missing my point. If super bright, strobing lights with poor optic design (or that are misused) find their way onto roadways in sufficient numbers, they will cause problems. Those kind of problems can generate traffic ordinances. Point being, if you see someone street riding like a Close Encounters scout ship, you might mention that they're doing no one any favors with their Red Man Full Pull Light Show.

    Btw, if they choose to, police officers certainly can and do enforce light restriction laws. In my area, driving around with high beams on constantly, or an off-road light bar blazing above the headlights, will get you stopped. Anything generating white light to the rear other than a tag light or properly functioning reverse light will do the same. Equipment violations generate a lot of car stops nationwide.

  10. #10
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    Interesting "debate" here lol.

    I dont see lumen output being regulated, see it going more generalized forcing cut off beams like vehicles used.

    And fyi, a small change to output of headlights will do just about absolutely nothing for fuel mileage. You'd need a pretty large change in efficiency for anything but high precision lab equipment to detect a decreased load on an engine. Little different with hybrids that run partially on battery power, but still tiny changes by saving a handled of lumens. Theirs 1000 other ways to actually increase fuel mileage to a level that can be measured in real world use.

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    More a discussion than a debate. Yes, I can see regulation of beam patterns being an option, and that would make more sense than a blanket ban of all lights over X lumens of output. It'd be a shame to see a ban on all strobe settings, but that's another way regulations could go. Easy to define, easy to enforce, but not so good for a commuting cyclist.

    As to vehicle headlights, I didn't mean that someone was using a light meter to improve fuel economy. It's common for cars to have the bare minimums applied to electrical systems. Take a look at the puny alternators, batteries, and wiring used in many modern vehicles. It's not a matter of reducing the actual light output to save fuel, but there is an effort to reduce weight throughout the vehicle, reduce material cost, and reduce the engine load required to spin the alternator. As long as the vehicle's lights meet DOT performance minimums, that's good enough for the manufacturer.

    I agree with the Cat about sub-optimum optic designs being at fault, probably more than electrical restrictions. Most people don't want a big, googly headlight on their otherwise sleek car, even though that's the simplest design for improved light output.

  12. #12
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    ( yes, it's a discussion )

    We already have certain laws when it comes to headlight design on motor vehicles. People keep telling me that the cut off on car headlights is designed to prevent people from being blinded. Okay, that's fine but why am I blinded almost every night by vehicles with super bright headlights? The answer; the lamps are still bright enough to blind you with their spill. If the concept doesn't work completely on cars why bother with bicycles. Besides, a cyclist needs to see more of what's going on ahead of him than a car does. A cyclist doesn't have a metal cage around him for protection. His tires are easily punctured if he hits something in the road. Not to mention it's the spill from his lamps that helps him get seen by the motorized traffic.

    Laws are designed and passed to protect and to insure the safety of the public in general. You don't make a regulation that might compromise that safety of a select user group and there in lies the problem. Yes strobes can be misused but you can't ban or over-regulate them because some loony aims it at someone or hasn't the common sense on how to use it. Same argument goes for things like guns, lasers, big motorized vehicles..etc. Almost ANYTHING made by man can be misused. Just the other day, a guy in Paris mows down a large gathering of people with a large truck. What are you gonna do? Ban Trucks?...not gonna happen

    One more point about having a cut-off lamp for bikes. Sounds like a good idea but it presumes that such a light will be less blinding. Perhaps that's true to a degree if it's a low output lamp but if the lamp is too dim or hasn't enough forward throw the cyclist could be in danger of not seeing what he needs to see to prevent an accident. Not to mention that there would nothing in the way of preventing the person using the lamp to aim the lamp anyway they chose.

    I say, "Let sleeping dogs lie". No one wants a law requiring bicycles to have factory mounted headlights ( and or running lights ). I'm of the opinion that if someone tried to pass such a law the cycling lobbyist community would be all over it in an effort to stop it. Heck, even if such a law passed the Police would have a field day trying to enforce the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    .......but why am I blinded almost every night by vehicles with super bright headlights?
    One factor in this problem is that not all headlight replacement bulbs are designed the same as the OEM bulb. In particular are the aftermarket Zenon or Krypton bulbs or HID conversions. In many cases the manufacturer gets away with this by including in some fine print on the package that says something like "for off road use only" or "for show purposes only".
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ( yes, it's a discussion )

    We already have certain laws when it comes to headlight design on motor vehicles. People keep telling me that the cut off on car headlights is designed to prevent people from being blinded. Okay, that's fine but why am I blinded almost every night by vehicles with super bright headlights? The answer; the lamps are still bright enough to blind you with their spill. If the concept doesn't work completely on cars why bother with bicycles. Besides, a cyclist needs to see more of what's going on ahead of him than a car does. A cyclist doesn't have a metal cage around him for protection. His tires are easily punctured if he hits something in the road. Not to mention it's the spill from his lamps that helps him get seen by the motorized traffic.

    Laws are designed and passed to protect and to insure the safety of the public in general. You don't make a regulation that might compromise that safety of a select user group and there in lies the problem. Yes strobes can be misused but you can't ban or over-regulate them because some loony aims it at someone or hasn't the common sense on how to use it. Same argument goes for things like guns, lasers, big motorized vehicles..etc. Almost ANYTHING made by man can be misused. Just the other day, a guy in Paris mows down a large gathering of people with a large truck. What are you gonna do? Ban Trucks?...not gonna happen

    One more point about having a cut-off lamp for bikes. Sounds like a good idea but it presumes that such a light will be less blinding. Perhaps that's true to a degree if it's a low output lamp but if the lamp is too dim or hasn't enough forward throw the cyclist could be in danger of not seeing what he needs to see to prevent an accident. Not to mention that there would nothing in the way of preventing the person using the lamp to aim the lamp anyway they chose.

    I say, "Let sleeping dogs lie". No one wants a law requiring bicycles to have factory mounted headlights ( and or running lights ). I'm of the opinion that if someone tried to pass such a law the cycling lobbyist community would be all over it in an effort to stop it. Heck, even if such a law passed the Police would have a field day trying to enforce the law.
    To be clear, I'm not pushing for any new regulations. The best way to avoid having any created would be for cyclists to be mindful of how and where they're using their lights.

    Traffic regulations requiring cyclists to have mounted head & tail lights on after dark are already common.

    Laser outputs are already legally regulated, and don't be surprised if more regulation is coming. Pilots and drivers have been targeted by laser wielding idiots many times. As for those other hazards, I'm not sure what relevance they have to regulating bicycle lighting.

    I disagree with your appraisal of the lighting needs of motorized vehicles compared to that of cyclists. You ignored the speeds involved with motorized traffic, which demand better lighting for distance and severe weather. Cyclists need effective lighting to see and be seen by, but none of us are likely to be in an 80 mph midnight paceline.

    Not that I'd agree with it, but banning strobing light sources would be easy to do. If enough non-cyclists are annoyed by strobes, and especially if a few high profile accidents were attributed to strobes, the "cycling lobbyist community" would fail to block passage in many areas. We don't all live in Seattle. It'd also be extremely easy to enforce. See a strobe, stop the cyclist, issue a citation.

    Again, I don't want to see more regulations, but with monsters like the CatEye Volt6000 already available (and likely being toyed with by the ripoff folks), I think it's important to have discussions like this before the Get Off My Lawn! crowd tries to take them away from us.



    Note the second youtube comment: "I wanna ride this on the road..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    One factor in this problem is that not all headlight replacement bulbs are designed the same as the OEM bulb. In particular are the aftermarket Zenon or Krypton bulbs or HID conversions. In many cases the manufacturer gets away with this by including in some fine print on the package that says something like "for off road use only" or "for show purposes only".
    Yep. I realize that traffic enforcement against those non-DOT approved light sources is spotty at best, but the people that run those on-road make life difficult for everyone else.

    We're cyclists, and we're better than that. I think it's great that such impressive cycle lighting is so affordable, but with that power comes the responsibility to use it properly, IMO.

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    I found this three year old thread funny.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/commuting/use...ts-875811.html

    There are some good points mentioned, but I'm glad we haven't gotten that strident. I've got a new L&M Vis360+ charging atm. I'm sure it adds to the cost, but I like the pulse modes over harsher strobing. L&M uses the pulse mode as a selling point, but I'd really like to see some modern, independent studies on road bicycle lighting.

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    Tell that to this cop. Keep in mind that the stop, attempt to ticket and therefore attempt to arrest were all illegal. Also keep in mind that there was no need for deadly force regardless of all this. Also keep in mind this cop could have just had his car towed and worked on so that his lights would no longer be blinding people. Funny how he was so concerned about people being blinded, huh?


    Shock Video: Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights
    https://youtu.be/u8mortvncDc


    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post

    Parting comment; The Police can't realistically enforce the over-usage of high-beams on motor vehicles. That's because ( like I said before ) that there are so many vehicles on the road with either super bright headlights or bright multiple front lamps that you can't tell high beams from just a vehicle with bright lights. If you're a cop, how do you tell if someone is running high beams? You can't. In most cases the "high beam" law ( for all intensive purposes ) is unenforceable.
    I forsee better regulation of lighting for both cars and cyclists.

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    What a bullshot video. He wasn't shot and killed he was freaking tased. Morons. And kid deserved every bit of what he got. Officer was within rights to stop him, kid refused to cooperate and simply show drivers license because HE DOESNT HAVE ONE. And that kid was on something.

    Get so sick of these stupid videos of people being morons and refusing to do a simple task requested by an officer and it turns into that crap.

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    Um, he is dead.

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    ya i looked into it further, but A LOT OF THE FACTS WERE MISSED. As always. He attacked the officer, thats why he got shot. This is the problem, wasnt lights or anythign else. Its people editing video to hide the truth to just start drama. Truth was the kid first refused to cooperate, then resisted arrest and attacked the officer. Officer was out of options and had to shoot him. Officer was taken to the hospital and treated for injuries that were sustained prior to being forced to shoot the kid.

    Anyways back on topic, well back on the discussion. Im with both flat and Cat, things may need to change but as said, can cause more problems than its going to fix. Other than basically ticketing people being ignorant about how they use their lights, there isnt too much issues.

    One thing people miss that keep referring back to the saferide is that you can accomplish the EXACT SAME IDEA of cutoff beam very easily. Using lights that have a bit of a "hood" on top and pointing the light at the correct angle. accomplishes the exact same thing, especially if you use wide angle elliptical optics. You get the wide spread, low level spot and the bit of a hood takes care of the rest. Just dont blaze around at 2000 lumens and there is no issues. Saferide had it built into the lens/reflector set up. These days its dont by how the front of the light is machined mostly. Still comes down to having your light at the correct angle on your bars.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by flat View Post
    ...I disagree with your appraisal of the lighting needs of motorized vehicles compared to that of cyclists. You ignored the speeds involved with motorized traffic, which demand better lighting for distance and severe weather. Cyclists need effective lighting to see and be seen by, but none of us are likely to be in an 80 mph midnight paceline...
    Actually I didn't ignore the fact that motorized vehicles travel faster and therefore need more light. What I did was use a wider perspective when it comes to perceived threats to cyclist ( in relation to possible conditions and possible speeds ). Motorized vehicles ( for the most ) travel on paved roads. Cyclists on the other hand ride the same roads but for the most part stay to the shoulder unless there is no shoulder. If a car goes down a road at 40mph and hits an animal, pot hole or debris more than likely they continue on and just fuss to themselves that they hit something. If a cyclist ( on the other hand ) goes down a hill at night, has the fitness to hit 40mph and then has an encounter with any one of those things I mentioned before, there is a very good chance that the cyclist is going to be going to an emergency room in the near future.

    Cars have high beams. They use them when they have to. Cyclists at times have the same needs. At 16mph I only need to see so far. If I start to go faster ( and with more hazardous road conditions ) I may need more light. Depends on where I'm riding. If I'm riding on a road that may have deer jumping out at me at any moment I'll use more light, but only if I perceive a greater threat by conditions on the road ( ie...as when there is little to no shoulder and the woods are heavy and right next to the road. )

    ...and speaking of conditions on the road; It's amazing how much debris accumulates on a shoulder of a road, everything from bottles, cans, pieces of glass, old shoes, pieces of truck tire...etc..the list is endless. It's out there and if you ride road at night you need to see this stuff even more than the cars do because to you ( a cyclist ) it's more of a threat.

    Once again, not saying I need as much light as a car ( some car high beams can reach almost a quarter mile ).. BUT at times I need more than I usually use. On that fast, wooded downhill I may need up to 2000 lumen, otherwise I'm usually good at 500 lumen or less.

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    I would love to see a bike light for road use with a simple switch between high beam / low beam. Same way as you have in your car. Wouldn't that be good?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Tell that to this cop.
    To what were you referring?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    One thing people miss that keep referring back to the saferide is that you can accomplish the EXACT SAME IDEA of cutoff beam very easily. Using lights that have a bit of a "hood" on top and pointing the light at the correct angle. accomplishes the exact same thing, especially if you use wide angle elliptical optics. You get the wide spread, low level spot and the bit of a hood takes care of the rest. Just dont blaze around at 2000 lumens and there is no issues. Saferide had it built into the lens/reflector set up. These days its dont by how the front of the light is machined mostly. Still comes down to having your light at the correct angle on your bars.
    Full circle.

    I wonder if we'll see quick change lens overlays for easy conversion in the field between off-road and road configurations. There's definitely a need for higher illumination angles & output while off-road, but even with the brightness dialed back, being able to easily modify the beam for road use would be a nice feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Actually I didn't ignore the fact that motorized vehicles travel faster and therefore need more light. What I did was use a wider perspective when it comes to perceived threats to cyclist ( in relation to possible conditions and possible speeds ). Motorized vehicles ( for the most ) travel on paved roads. Cyclists on the other hand ride the same roads but for the most part stay to the shoulder unless there is no shoulder. If a car goes down a road at 40mph and hits an animal, pot hole or debris more than likely they continue on and just fuss to themselves that they hit something. If a cyclist ( on the other hand ) goes down a hill at night, has the fitness to hit 40mph and then has an encounter with any one of those things I mentioned before, there is a very good chance that the cyclist is going to be going to an emergency room in the near future.

    Cars have high beams. They use them when they have to. Cyclists at times have the same needs. At 16mph I only need to see so far. If I start to go faster ( and with more hazardous road conditions ) I may need more light. Depends on where I'm riding. If I'm riding on a road that may have deer jumping out at me at any moment I'll use more light, but only if I perceive a greater threat by conditions on the road ( ie...as when there is little to no shoulder and the woods are heavy and right next to the road. )

    ...and speaking of conditions on the road; It's amazing how much debris accumulates on a shoulder of a road, everything from bottles, cans, pieces of glass, old shoes, pieces of truck tire...etc..the list is endless. It's out there and if you ride road at night you need to see this stuff even more than the cars do because to you ( a cyclist ) it's more of a threat.

    Once again, not saying I need as much light as a car ( some car high beams can reach almost a quarter mile ).. BUT at times I need more than I usually use. On that fast, wooded downhill I may need up to 2000 lumen, otherwise I'm usually good at 500 lumen or less.
    Yep. I don't like riding on shoulders, though. Just as you said, there's too much debris, and at least in my area, they can end abruptly. I ride in the correct lane and do my best to work with overtaking traffic to let them by, but I have a right to operate my bike on the road, too. I also use a helmet mounted mirror so I know what's going on back there without turning my head.

    Don't get me wrong about any of this. I've been hit by a car while riding, and I've had many close calls on the road, so I appreciate talking about this. Maybe search failed me, but I didn't see much interest in lighting on the road forum, so I ended up here. I figure that a light that can hold up to mtb use should be hardy enough for pavement.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    I would love to see a bike light for road use with a simple switch between high beam / low beam. Same way as you have in your car. Wouldn't that be good?
    Not quite the same, but some dynamo lights have a hi/lo feature that's controlled by speed. Many battery lights allow easy control of output levels, and I'm sure that some helmet systems can put a high beam right where it's needed.

    Like Kramer taking the hit from the chicken sign.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    I would love to see a bike light for road use with a simple switch between high beam / low beam. Same way as you have in your car. Wouldn't that be good?
    I have several lights (Gloiworm X2, XS, Ituo Wiz20, L&M Taz 1500) that have a commuter mode with a high and low setting (most programmable to preference). Unfortunately intensity is the only thing that changes not the beam pattern like a car. Magicshine has several commuter lights that have a combo of emitters with spot optics and elliptical that can be controlled separately which would allow for different beam pattern but am not familiar with their UI so I don't know how easy they are to switch modes or even if they have a High/Low option. Technology's there so a least there's hope.
    Mole

  26. #26
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    Me I do it really easy, tilt the light. Ones that have the hood of sorts make it fairly easy. Not as simple as say a remote, but like the wiz20 it's just tilt it down more for road, back up a bit for off road. But half the time the road position is about right for how I set up on trails so helmet light sorts out the rest. That's me though.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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    OFF-ROAD and ROAD LENS OVERLAYS. I know for a fact this would work. I've glued Action-LED-Lights wide angle (elliptical) lens to the bezel of an optic equipped Gemini Olympia and Xera with good results. All it would take is molding some attachment arms to this style of lens and design in some attachment points of the light-head/bezel. Not sure how popular this would be though. As you (flat) mentioned not a lot of light interest in the commuter threads. Most Bike light articles there only generate a page or two of responses although I do find it encouraging that a good multi use light like the Wiz20 is up to 9 pages now. If there's enough demand I'm sure someone would do this.
    Mole

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    The 2 light, bar/helmet setup seems the way to go. Higher visibility to motorists, instant aiming control, better lighting angles of the road, and redundancy. For road use, the lights can be fairly wimpy by mtb standards and still get the job done with smaller LED heads & batteries, too.

    Of course, you can always step it up a bit.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lights like philips safe ride?-harpers-bazaar-dec2012-dakota-fanning-close-encounters-600x300.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    OFF-ROAD and ROAD LENS OVERLAYS. I know for a fact this would work. I've glued Action-LED-Lights wide angle (elliptical) lens to the bezel of an optic equipped Gemini Olympia and Xera with good results. All it would take is molding some attachment arms to this style of lens and design in some attachment points of the light-head/bezel. Not sure how popular this would be though. As you (flat) mentioned not a lot of light interest in the commuter threads. Most Bike light articles there only generate a page or two of responses although I do find it incouraging that a good multi use light like the Wiz20 is up to 9 pages now. If there's enough demand I'm sure someone would do this.
    Mole
    I was thinking something simple like a slide-in frame would work, like photographic filters. Sealing might be a little tricky to keep water from getting between the filter & lens, but it doesn't sound too difficult.

  30. #30
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    Time for the silly pictures!
    Mole


    Lights like philips safe ride?-dsc00224.jpg

  31. #31
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    There is this light from Specialized, not sure of the recall status.

    REVIEW: Specialized Flux Expert Bicycle Headlight - Photo Intensive

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    There is this light from Specialized, not sure of the recall status.

    REVIEW: Specialized Flux Expert Bicycle Headlight - Photo Intensive
    Looks like a pretty neat light. I think Mole has one on a bar end.

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    Putting a hood on the light and tilting it is not the same thing. You end up with too much light up close and not enough further down.

    I really don't think most of you have ever used a low beam light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Putting a hood on the light and tilting it is not the same thing. You end up with too much light up close and not enough further down.

    I really don't think most of you have ever used a low beam light.
    You are correct. It is not the same thing. It will however work similar to a lamp that is designed for cut-off and depending on how bright the lamp is, the type of hood being used and what optic is being used, it is another option. You are likely correct; most of use don't own a lamp with a low beam with designed cut-off. Of course if the manufacturers of bike lamps think that there really isn't a large enough market for such a lamp ( and as such aren't making/selling them ) you can't blame us for never owning one.

    Right now there aren't too many lamps that offer a high and low beam, both with separate cut-offs. The Specialized Flux lamps though look to do a half decent job. Not perfect, but not crap either.

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    I have the B&M IXON IQ Premium on my bike and it's designed with a cut-off. It's an excellent light. Members on here are primarily MTBers so such lights are not really meant for them.

    Have to repeat, it's an excellent light.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronMac View Post
    I have the B&M IXON IQ Premium on my bike and it's designed with a cut-off. It's an excellent light. Members on here are primarily MTBers so such lights are not really meant for them.

    Have to repeat, it's an excellent light.
    Yes, the B&M IXON IQ Premium ( damn long title to type ) has a following. Not everyone on MTBR just rides mountain bikes. I think if a poll was done you would find most people who frequent the website also ride the road as well.

    I haven't checked into the more recent versions of the IQ but hopefully there have been some improvements in output. Now if I could buy one at a store like REI I probably would of tried one a long time ago. I'm not going to order something from Germany, use it a couple times, decide I don't like it and have to return it. Too much of a PITA for me to take the chance I might not like it. The lights I own I like. I don't feel they are a problem using on the road as long as I use them responsibly.

    Lamps with cut-offs are interesting but not all cut-off beam patterns are going to be the same. The manufacturer decides where the cut-off is and there in lies a potential problem. I've driven motor vehicles with absolutely terrible cut-off. I'm talking cut-off so severe that when something comes into view you have only a second to react. That is dangerous. The car I drive at work at the moment has a low beam cutoff that is just a tad short for my comfort. Tonight my fears were justified. While driving down a dark country road ( 55mph ) I suddenly came upon three young men walking side-by-side along the shoulder of the road. The road had a very wide shoulder so there was no threat of hitting them but their sudden appearance startled me. That got me thinking about the, "What if's". What if the car in front of me suddenly threw their brakes on in an attempt to avoid hitting a deer or something else in the road. My likely reaction, if I didn't have enough time to brake myself, would be to swerve RIGHT in order to avoid hitting the car. What a shock it would be to suddenly see three young people walking along the shoulder in the pitch black and me headed directly into them! In a situation like that, without enough light to give the driver the needed time to react the result could be catastrophic. That thought haunted me the rest of the night. Last thing anyone wants to do is to hit a person while driving. That would be my worse nightmare.

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    Well, first of all, this is MTBR, not the bike forums.net. But, go ahead and do a poll, it'd be interesting to see the make up of members.

    Second, the output is pretty good. You can check the manufacturer's website and elsewhere for pictures of the beam pattern: Busch & Müller: Headlight Beam Comparison

    Third, you can try tilting the IXON to adjust for the cut off. Using a car's headlight's cutoff is not really applicable. The IXON is not meant to be used in total darkness and/or situations where you are going so fast that you are in danger of outrunning the beam of light. It's meant to be a commuter/road light.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronMac View Post
    Well, first of all, this is MTBR, not the bike forums.net. But, go ahead and do a poll, it'd be interesting to see the make up of members.

    Second, the output is pretty good. You can check the manufacturer's website and elsewhere for pictures of the beam pattern: Busch & Müller: Headlight Beam Comparison

    Third, you can try tilting the IXON to adjust for the cut off. Using a car's headlight's cutoff is not really applicable. The IXON is not meant to be used in total darkness and/or situations where you are going so fast that you are in danger of outrunning the beam of light. It's meant to be a commuter/road light.
    I see no need for a poll.

    If you take a look on the PeterWhite website they list the IXON lamps. Oddly, Peter himself compares the beam pattern to that of a car headlight. He suggests the lamp is usable up to 30mph ( which isn't bad ). Then again HE is a seller so I would be inclined to take that with a grain of salt.

    Not a good idea to use manufacturer supplied beam photos as a reason to buy a lamp ( or third party dealers ). They want to sell lamps so I wouldn't think they would put photos up that make the lamps look bad....just saying.

    Lastly, the only real problem with the IXON Premium is that it uses four AA's. AA's simply don't perform well once the temperatures get cold.

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    Peter does say that the beam pattern is like a car's but in every other respect you cannot compare this lamp to a car's. Not in terms of brightness and reach. He can say all he wants about how it's good up to 30 mph but his roads must be as smooth as a baby's bottom. Why? This light is a bit top heavy and the mount is just not quite there. Vibrations at that speed will have the lamp drooping pretty soon. Again, this light is meant for road/commuters which also means that battery longevity is not that crucial in its home market of Germany.

    As for not trusting Bumm's pictures nor Peter's (I certainly don't trust his pics!) I also said elsewhere. I really don't want to bother showing the output of my lamp but you can always have a look at others such as:

    REVIEW: Busch & Muller Ixon IQ Premium - Warning Photo Heavy
    Testbericht: Busch & Mller Ixon*IQ Fahrradbeleuchtung Info

    Or videos such as the one here which made up my mind to purchase:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwM7vDvvGhU

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    My edelux II is actually pretty bright out in the rural areas. Just so so in town. Throw is about 75 feet. Beam is very wide. Not bad, but only good up to 20 mph IMO, unless there is no risk of obstacles.

  41. #41
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    Many lights seem brighter in rural areas, because your eyes adjust as there is less or no ambient light sources. The darker it is around you the brighter a light appears, though it's literally no different in its light output.

    I also have issues trusting beam shots as people post their camera settings which means little, each camera will have a different setting to create the same effect. I adjust my camera each time to make the image look as close to what I see with my own eyes as possible. Hot spots are the only thing it's hard to replicate being that our eyes can adjust to small changes throughout line of sight better than most cameras.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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