Betty or Wilma with 18* Lens- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Betty or Wilma with 18* Lens

    I have been saving for a while and have narrowed my light choices down to the Lupine
    betty 7 or the wilma 7 with the 18* lens upgrade .Should i keep saving for the betty 7
    or is it not worth the extra $240? which ever one a finally choose will be my only
    source of light for a couple upcoming night races .next year a may get a second light
    to complement this years purchase. And also should i run it Helmet or handle bar with
    a petzl headlamp to see around sharp switchbacks? Thanks

  2. #2
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    The 18* lens just came down in price...

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    Get the Wilma if weight is an issue....I prefer lights that are close to 100-125 grams for the helmet lamps and if only one light, I always prefer helmet-mounted. A bar mount light only just does not work in too many situations for me and is too dangerous if riding at normal speeds around twisties and rollers and switchbacks. I use a Betty for the bar. I personally find it to be a bit heavy for the helmet though I know guys who use it and find it to not be too heavy.

    I say get the Wilma for the helmet and then get a bar light down the road.

  4. #4
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    If you are going to go for the 18* optics then it will have to go on the bar, 18* will be far to wide for helmet use.
    If you find that you still require a helmet light to go with it then get a narrow beam for your head. Too wide a beam on the helmet will light up dust, rain, fog ect. right in front of your eyes like a white blanket of light.

    The 18* should be great on the bar.

  5. #5
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    What about going with a Tesla for the bars and since you save some $$ you can get something like a Dinotte 200L for the helmet. That would be what I would do and get two lights.
    I would go with the Wilma or even the Tesla before going for the Betty. NOTE: the Tesla in its 35% mode will give you 9h of light and its pretty bright
    I'm pretty happy with the Wilma 18 degree lens but I'm also happy with the Tesla

    If I will get just one light, I think I will go with a Tesla on the helmet... enough peripheral and enough punch

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    I'd hold out for just a bit. Most of the manufacturers are getting ready to introduce their new lights for the fall. My bet is that there will be a lot of lights in the Betty/Wilma brightness to choose from and at better prices. I think you will see a lot of this over the coming month.

    J.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    I'd hold out for just a bit. Most of the manufacturers are getting ready to introduce their new lights for the fall. My bet is that there will be a lot of lights in the Betty/Wilma brightness to choose from and at better prices. I think you will see a lot of this over the coming month.

    J.
    As I always say, you can wait... and wait... and wait... or you can have some fun.

    I say..., BETTY! I ride with the Betty. Great light.
    GeoMan
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    As I always say, you can wait... and wait... and wait... or you can have some fun.

    I say..., BETTY! I ride with the Betty. Great light.
    I have information that at least one other major mfg is within days/to a few weeks of introducing new lights (or updating current lights) that are in the top end class. You don't sell them so I understand your desire to have potential customers not wait.

    J.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    I have information that at least one other major mfg is within days/to a few weeks of introducing new lights (or updating current lights) that are in the top end class.
    That may very well be true but it's always true to some extent. You can wait your life away, it's been said. If you already have reliable lights, there's no urgency at all. Obviously the OP is looking for basic input implying he/she doesn't have a lightset yet. My advice is to grab the ring and take hold. No time like the present.

    We've heard the same thing for some time now from a variety of manufacturers... including the "top end".

    I'm summer night riding now and it's a beautiful experience!
    GeoMan
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    oh, come now. The night riding season really takes off after labor day as the days get shorter big time especially up here in the northern latitudes. That is at most 30 days away and very likely much less for any of the major mfgs who haven't yet announced to their new products. I guarantee you that just as companies like Magicshine are driving the cost curve down rapidly, the newer lights - within weeks - will continue that curve aggressively.

    That is going to put some serious downward pressure on prices for $/lumen in the very short term. Hopefully your buddies at Lupine respond.

    J.

  11. #11
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    John,

    Oh, come now ( ). I use my lights every week. Couldn't night ride without them, of course. The light season is all year, IMHO, same with those I ride with. Glad to have you pondering this too.

    Lights to the masses! The Magicshine light is, obviously, turning some people onto lights that wouldn't otherwise have any. I know how many are shipping into North America and it is significant. A whole new market opened when the sub-$100 high output lights arrived. Ggggreat!

    The Lupines always sell well because they are "top end class" and some folks always opt for quality. I ride with two Lupines myself - no others (I guess I'm a quality guy... hehe). I don't think we need to worry about my buds over there at Lupine, they're dialed in.
    GeoMan
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    I would say if you are going to buy now and you have made up your mind to go Lupine, then get the Betty.

    The Wilma with 18* lens did not please me. The loss of far range and ground upwards lighting was too much for me and I took it off and went back to the original.

    Compared to either, the Betty outperforms both the 18* and the 15* on the Wilma.

    Best combo for price is a Wilma on the bar and a Tesla on the helmet, still cheaper than a Betty (or should be).

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    Lupine is quite overpriced at this point by a considerable amount for Betty and Wilma. Tesla is closer to reality but on the high side.

    J.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    Lupine is quite overpriced at this point by a considerable amount for Betty and Wilma. Tesla is closer to reality but on the high side.

    J.
    Ferrari is overpriced too if you think that they are only cars but some people do like craftmanship and quality

    if you just want light get this... 58$ spotlight http://www.sportsauthority.com/produ...entPage=family

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    It's not a ferrari anymore. Look at the new lights announced and out now. The current crop of lights has essentially closed the margin and at a lower price. The premium was justified when everyone else was struggling at 200 lumens and they were at 800 (out the lens). No so anymore. Lots of competition and the differentiation is small to none.

    J.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    It's not a ferrari anymore. Look at the new lights announced and out now. The current crop of lights has essentially closed the margin and at a lower price. The premium was justified when everyone else was struggling at 200 lumens and they were at 800 (out the lens). No so anymore. Lots of competition and the differentiation is small to none.

    J.

    You are one of those that don't know what Lupine is so clearly they are not for you, IT IS NOT about the lumens and I won't waste my time with this discussion. The OP was asking about which Lupine light to get and you come bashing Lupine. Go ride your bike if you don't have anything positive to say

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    Was it in the stickies that only you get provide your opinion, but no one else does? If so, please point me at that so I won't make the same mistake next time.

    I've looked at the new lights and I've borrowed Lupines. I'm just not going to be the total fan boy after looking at it objectively. I suppose I might be touchy about it too if I had that much invested - technology is not for the faint of heart or pocket book.

    There is no doubt that they are high priced for what you get and that the differentiation against the competition is getting smaller very fast.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    Was it in the stickies that only you get provide your opinion, but no one else does? If so, please point me at that so I won't make the same mistake next time.

    I've looked at the new lights and I've borrowed Lupines. I'm just not going to be the total fan boy after looking at it objectively. I suppose I might be touchy about it too if I had that much invested - technology is not for the faint of heart or pocket book.

    There is no doubt that they are high priced for what you get and that the differentiation against the competition is getting smaller very fast.

    J.
    I agree. With the all the new light systems coming out now Lupine is slowly on the down hill unless they lower their prices some or increase their lumens. Also, lupine in not based in the US, therfore it will be much more expensive to those living in the US. Go look at the prices of a Ferrari in Italy and you will see its no where near the cost of one here, not even close. I dont think john is bashing Lupine at all, I think he is just stating the obvious. I mean the ball is in lupines court to keep the US market alive.

  19. #19
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    If you only want to compare lumens and price, go DIY.... you are in the wrong forum. Lupine is known for many other things that other companies don't have.
    BTW, I was looking at Petzl... they came out with their ULTRA series... 350 lumens for 90 minutes, external battery (230g) and the thing cost around 500$. it was nominated as of of the best lights in consumer report or something like that.....
    When I think about the 700 lumens of the Tesla (3h on high or their 350 lumens for 9 hours OR 24 hours with enough light to run at night) I think again, if I have the money I will buy Lupine. Thats MY opinion
    Last edited by BBW; 08-20-2009 at 05:39 PM.

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    I guess we will see, won't we?

    At what premium will you no longer buy Lupine? If Lupine is $500 and an equivalent lumens light of high quality is $100, would you still buy Lupine? $200? Where do you draw the line?

    J.

  21. #21
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    I see plenty with my Lupines.... I will keep buying the best in lights

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    I'll stick with the Lupines as well- have seen nothing that comes close to the quality and attention to detail. If you simply can't spend the money, there are plenty of cheaper options but I have found nothing so far that makes me want to switch out my Betty and Tesla combo...and I love changing stuff up and trying new stuff. I think I'm on my fifth bike purchase this year. I have owned and tried several different brands, though obviously not all.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    I'll stick with the Lupines as well- have seen nothing that comes close to the quality and attention to detail. If you simply can't spend the money, there are plenty of cheaper options but I have found nothing so far that makes me want to switch out my Betty and Tesla combo...and I love changing stuff up and trying new stuff. I think I'm on my fifth bike purchase this year. I have owned and tried several different brands, though obviously not all.
    Amen to that... now, on the bikes you're stretching it too much

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    I guess we will see, won't we?

    At what premium will you no longer buy Lupine? If Lupine is $500 and an equivalent lumens light of high quality is $100, would you still buy Lupine? $200? Where do you draw the line?

    J.

    I hear what you are saying as I have two Lupine lights, but recently bought a Magicshine light which is way cheaper. The Magicshine does OK, but lacks many features and when I go out on a winter ride at Zero degrees celsius for example I will always take my Lupines and leave the Magicshine at home. In cases where reliability is one of the most important features then you don't mind paying a lot more. The Lupines have proved themselves to be flawless when it comes to reliability to me. They always work, I always get the expected run time, the connectors always work etc., which is more than I can say of any other light I have owned.

    You won't find a $100 light with the same quality and features as a Lupine. Another big selling point with Lupines as well as some other lights is that they are upgradeable down the road. So you pay a lot initially, but then upgrade it down the road instead of having to buy a whole new light. And things like batteries, connectors, and mounts, chargers, etc. all work together with Lupine unlike what some other companies offer.


    The last time I decided I was going to buy new bike lights and knew I wanted something to last, I researched, I bought Lupines, I put them to the test, and I can honestly say that I am happy I went with them and don't regret spending big bucks on them as they completely lived up to the hype. Maybe I could have went with another brand light and been equally happy, but this is the choice I made and thus far it has proven to be a good one. Also, just b/c other manufacturers have closed the gap in Lumen output doesn't make Lupines less kick butt.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ
    I hear what you are saying as I have two Lupine lights, but recently bought a Magicshine light which is way cheaper. The Magicshine does OK, but lacks many features and when I go out on a winter ride at Zero degrees celsius for example I will always take my Lupines and leave the Magicshine at home. In cases where reliability is one of the most important features then you don't mind paying a lot more. The Lupines have proved themselves to be flawless when it comes to reliability to me. They always work, I always get the expected run time, the connectors always work etc., which is more than I can say of any other light I have owned.

    You won't find a $100 light with the same quality and features as a Lupine. Another big selling point with Lupines as well as some other lights is that they are upgradeable down the road. So you pay a lot initially, but then upgrade it down the road instead of having to buy a whole new light. And things like batteries, connectors, and mounts, chargers, etc. all work together with Lupine unlike what some other companies offer.


    The last time I decided I was going to buy new bike lights and knew I wanted something to last, I researched, I bought Lupines, I put them to the test, and I can honestly say that I am happy I went with them and don't regret spending big bucks on them as they completely lived up to the hype. Maybe I could have went with another brand light and been equally happy, but this is the choice I made and thus far it has proven to be a good one. Also, just b/c other manufacturers have closed the gap in Lumen output doesn't make Lupines less kick butt.
    You will never be disappointed with a LUPINE (or two). They are well-made, with a two year warranty, excellent engineering, great optics, turn-key (i.e. car charger, neat carrying case, virtually all accessories, etc.), many are programmable, etc.

    I night-ride with the Betty (bar) and the Tesla (helmet). I carry Lupine's tiniest li-ion battery and my Tesla lighthead all the time (daylight included) in case of emergencies.

    Good points!
    GeoMan
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ
    I hear what you are saying as I have two Lupine lights, but recently bought a Magicshine light which is way cheaper. The Magicshine does OK, but lacks many features and when I go out on a winter ride at Zero degrees celsius for example I will always take my Lupines and leave the Magicshine at home. In cases where reliability is one of the most important features then you don't mind paying a lot more. The Lupines have proved themselves to be flawless when it comes to reliability to me. They always work, I always get the expected run time, the connectors always work etc., which is more than I can say of any other light I have owned.

    You won't find a $100 light with the same quality and features as a Lupine. Another big selling point with Lupines as well as some other lights is that they are upgradeable down the road. So you pay a lot initially, but then upgrade it down the road instead of having to buy a whole new light. And things like batteries, connectors, and mounts, chargers, etc. all work together with Lupine unlike what some other companies offer.


    The last time I decided I was going to buy new bike lights and knew I wanted something to last, I researched, I bought Lupines, I put them to the test, and I can honestly say that I am happy I went with them and don't regret spending big bucks on them as they completely lived up to the hype. Maybe I could have went with another brand light and been equally happy, but this is the choice I made and thus far it has proven to be a good one. Also, just b/c other manufacturers have closed the gap in Lumen output doesn't make Lupines less kick butt.
    I think you missed the question - if there was something of equivalent quality and reliability, are you still willing to pay a premium for Lupine?

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMAN
    You will never be disappointed with a LUPINE (or two). They are well-made, with a two year warranty, excellent engineering, great optics, turn-key (i.e. car charger, neat carrying case, virtually all accessories, etc.), many are programmable, etc.

    I night-ride with the Betty (bar) and the Tesla (helmet). I carry Lupine's tiniest li-ion battery and my Tesla lighthead all the time (daylight included) in case of emergencies.

    Good points!
    Why is it that this makes me feel like I'm in somebody's sales showroom?

    J.

  28. #28
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    I'll stop now.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    Why is it that this makes me feel like I'm in somebody's sales showroom?

    J.
    you have passion (anger) for Lupine and we have also passion (love) for them, just opposite sides..
    if I remember well, the OP was asking specifically between two LUPINES and you jump to bash them. basically you think they are not worth it and we love their quality, reliability, craftmanship, Lumens, beam pattern, color, customer service, features, bling factor, burning time, upgradeability, compatibility..... should I keep going?
    I would love if everybody could have a Lupine... until you see them in person and ride with them you can't explain what's about them that is so good besides the obvious

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    I think you missed the question - if there was something of equivalent quality and reliability, are you still willing to pay a premium for Lupine?

    J.
    where is it?
    I have had Jetlites... the best halogen out there. I used them for 5 years without changing a bulb
    Light & motion... incredible quality, had an HID and was always scared about breaking the bulb/ballast although the beam was incredible.. the new ones? 500$+? I prefer Lupine
    DiNotte... I always support them and think they are great. I had a 200L and 600L... the blueish color didn't cut it for me though..... the 600L wide with 50% more lumens would be great. Also their thermal handling is not as good as Lupine

    NR.... no thanks, personal preference but don't like cheapo looking stuff (sorry just my opinion) and don't like their lack of compatibility. basically you have to buy new things every time (connectors, cables, chargers, etc)

    Flashlights: many Surefire, Fenix and Streamlight

    So? where is that magic light you think is equivalent?? I could say that I'm waiting for it but I would lie... I'm extremelly happy with what I have and I don't need more lumens, a different beam shape or more burning time for the next 5 years... then, Lupine will come with an upgrade for what I have and my chargers will still work
    What an awesome light

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBW
    I was looking at Petzl... they came out with their ULTRA series... 350 lumens for 90 minutes, external battery (230g) and the thing cost around 500$. it was nominated as of of the best lights in consumer report or something like that.....
    Why not to compare LUPINE with scandinavian SILVA and MILA? I think "Ferrary" shouldn't have such a poor headgear as LUPINE's

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    I think you missed the question - if there was something of equivalent quality and reliability, are you still willing to pay a premium for Lupine?

    J.
    It really depends. If I didn't already have two Lupine lights, two batteries, helmet mounts, cables, chargers etc. then if I found a light equivalent in quality and reliability, features, beam pattern, etc then I would definitely consider it . When making a light purchase I also consider the look of the light itself though to a lesser degree than quality, reliability, features, beam pattern etc. As of now I am committed to Lupines to a degree as I have all the goodies that go with them and they are interchangeable so I am sticking with them of course. For a first time light buyer and they find a similar quality product as Lupine at a lower price then go for it and save some money.

    For the original poster who is asking about the Betty versus Wilma with wide lens, that is a difficult question to answer. They are both great lights. but if you are going to use the light on the helmet then the Betty feels a bit heavy at least to me. For the bars the Betty works great, but still you are not going to see a lot of things if your bars aren't pointed that way. I have ridden many times with just the Betty on the bars and it is very doable, but I would probably rather go with two lights that equal similar amount so that I can helmet mount one. And with a wide lens on the Wilma you are gonna sacrifice distance so unless you are going to add a helmet light that outreaches it then I probably wouldn't go with that light by itself. Have you considered the Tesla light also. That light would be great paired up with a Wilma or Betty light. I don't own a Tesla, just a Betty and Wilma, but from beam shots and reviews I think I might prefer a Betty/Tesla combo rather than what I have now. In your position I might just start off with a Tesla for now as it has a lot of spill and has good reach and will work great on bar or helmet.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaskaS
    Why not to compare LUPINE with scandinavian SILVA and MILA? I think "Ferrary" shouldn't have such a poor headgear as LUPINE's
    I've never heard of them... did my research and they look great and HUGE

    https://www.silva.se/en/Products/Mob...lligent-Light/

    https://www.silva.se/en/Products/Mob...36B276864DE%7d

    The new headband Pro from Lupine looks very nice IMO and comfortable (neoprene)

    https://gretnabikes.com/item.asp?PID=179&cID=1

    this is the way to go anyway

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBW
    The new headband Pro from Lupine looks very nice IMO and comfortable (neoprene)
    At long last they've done it Looks like a good copy of MILA's headgear. Are you sure it's neoprene? It looks more like EVA.
    Thanks for the link, for it's still lacking at LUPINE's site.

    MILA and SILVA are brands with more than a decade history very popular in Europe particularly among scandinavian national rescue services and police.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaskaS
    At long last they've done it Looks like a good copy of MILA's headgear. Are you sure it's neoprene? It looks more like EVA.
    Thanks for the link, for it's still lacking at LUPINE's site.

    MILA and SILVA are brands with more than a decade history very popular in Europe particularly among scandinavian national rescue services and police.
    Not sure about neoprene (that is what it looks like to me but there are so many types of materials that I don't know )

    They look very nice I would keep my Lupines though

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