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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Well, apart from self-drain and questionable Chinese quality, one more thing: AA-powered devices typically have "low battery" indicators triggered by voltage drop. In this case howewer, DC/DC converter will provide steady 1.5V output until full discharge and disconnection of battery by embedded protection PCB.

    For examples like bike rear light, I'd prefer to see visual decrease of brightness and/or blinking "Battery Low" indicator, instead of sudden shutdown...
    Yes I suppose that's true to some degree but there aren't many dedicated bike lamps that use these kind of cells that operate with voltage indicators or digital run-time estimators. With most of my torches when the batteries are drained the light just goes out. Only my better 18650 torches will give a low voltage warning. I can think of only a few rear lights that still use AAA or AA cells or perhaps a front lamp like the B&M Ixon IQ which uses AA's. That said if I was using one of the very nice Ixon IQ's I would likely get a brighter output for a longer period of time using these new types of cells. Yes, it would throw off the warning device built into the lamp driver but if you know how long the lamp will run with the different batteries you might prefer the trade off unless you are one of those folk who like to run out the full charge of your batteries while on a ride. Speaking personally, I've ridden with torches and with dedicated bike lights and almost everything I own either has no indicators or does and I never really pay too much attention to them anyway. I just make sure I have some kind of back up if needed if indeed in the rare event I run out of battery power. ( Only my newer Raveman lamps give me a digital read out of estimated run time and just how accurate those are is anyone's guess )

  2. #402
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    I'm not sure if this was discussed, but didn't find through search.

    I was looking to see if there was a different battery pack available that might be better than the ones that were reviewed and came across this Trustfire EBO2 branded one on amazon (shipped from CN) but can't find anything about it. As you can see, the external design is a bit different with cutouts for routing straps at every corner, it uses an aluminum capped bolt to close it, and the battery level indicator is on the opposite side from the cord.

    The weirder thing is that I went to trustfire's website and came across what has to be the most innovative/stupid battery pack idea: one that goes in your top tube. It looks like it does not interface with the star nut (which would seem to get in the way?), tightening the bolt just works to compress tension rings to hold it in place. Am I missing something?

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    I'm not sure if this was discussed, but didn't find through search.

    I was looking to see if there was a different battery pack available that might be better than the ones that were reviewed and came across this Trustfire EBO2 branded one on amazon (shipped from CN) but can't find anything about it. As you can see, the external design is a bit different with cutouts for routing straps at every corner, it uses an aluminum capped bolt to close it, and the battery level indicator is on the opposite side from the cord...
    What draws my attention to this cell holder is that there appears to be some kind of button to the left of the voltage indicators. Yeah, yeah..all fine that it has slots for the Velcro straps and an Aluminum top tightener. More important is the button. If that button is some kind of an on/off switch that would be nice. That means you might be able to store the holder with cells and not have any self discharge. That would be a nice touch if indeed it is a switch that controls the battery discharge circuit.

    About the other link; Interesting idea to put a battery inside the head tube.. Not sure though what type of cell is being used and what the total capacity or voltage is. The lamp kit looked like it came with two battery sets ( a normal square 4-cell and the one for the head tube...?? ) but maybe I'm wrong about that.

  4. #404
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    So a bit more info on the battery box can be found from the pics on this polish website https://lampkinarower.pl/pakiety-aku...-port-usb.html

    According to the diagram on the box, the button switches from 8.4v to 5v USB output. Claimed standby drain is 75 micro amps.

    The most significant difference, and the reason I'm going to give it a shot, is that if you look at one of the pics on this aliexpress listing it appears to have springs on both terminal sides, which may help with the problem of disconnecting on bumpy trails.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    ...The most significant difference, and the reason I'm going to give it a shot, is that if you look at one of the pics on this aliexpress listing it appears to have springs on both terminal sides, which may help with the problem of disconnecting on bumpy trails.
    If there are springs on both ends of the cells and they are fairly stiff, It should work pretty well. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts and experiences once you have one.

    If it turns out well, I'd likely buy a few and gut out all the USB and other BS and end up with a good battery case.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    If there are springs on both ends of the cells and they are fairly stiff, It should work pretty well. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts and experiences once you have one.

    If it turns out well, I'd likely buy a few and gut out all the USB and other BS and end up with a good battery case.
    I might be interested in one of these myself. The switch ( on top ) is there to control the output between USB and normal 2S/2P output (?). That said the USB cord looks like it is connected in parallel with the lamp output cord. ( ? ) That means possibly only one at a time is usable (?). There is no mention if there is any protective circuitry for the normal lamp output operation. If the stand-by current drain is 75 micro-amps I'm guessing the USB circuit is powered full time but access to lamp or USB output is only provided when the switch is in the proper position. (?) I'm assuming this but this might not be true if the one cord going into the top of the box has 4 wires inside the casing and provides two separate circuit output paths . Would be better if you could operate both outputs at the same time but really there is no mention it has that capability....only that the switch can turn USB on or off. ( the big question; is the switch double pole / double throw? )

    I wouldn't mind having one as long as the lamp output current can power my XP3. Would be nice to know more about it though before buying. Personally I'd like the option of using both USB and lamp at the same time. Not sure if it will do that though.

  7. #407
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    There are also cases like this for 2-6 cells. Wondering if they had changed circuit. Based on description is hard to tell.

    It is obvious the new one Desertride has linked and this one has no sense contact to the bottom of case. So no proper protection has been implemented. Making short on sprins is still quite easy to do.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I saw these on Amazon the other day and since I've never seen these before I thought I'd make mention of them. Supposedly these are 1.5 volts and have their own charging circuit and USB connector built into each cell. The AAA cells have a capacity rating of 400mAh. Although this doesn't sound like much you have to do the watt/hr. conversion to compare these to the LSD NiMh AAA's which are only 1.2 volts. I believe the NiMh's have a slightly higher watt/hr rating but I'm not sure if the listed 1.5 volt rating of the lithium's is the nominal or peak rating. If the peak rating is higher ( say perhaps (1.8 or maybe 3.7 volts ) than the watt/hr rating of the lithium's will be higher. I also see another version of the same rechargeable AAA li-ion cells ( 1.5 volt output ) that require a special external charger. These might actual have more capacity but they do cost more. All good stuff if you use a product that uses AA or AAA cells.

    There is also an AA version and a 9volt battery version of the rechargeable lithium's as well. Very interesting. I'm curious as to how well all of these new type of cells will actually work.
    Once again quoting myself here so to continue on about the new rechargeable 1.5 volt Li-ion AAA's.

    Looking at the Amazon website where I first saw these I tried to calculate how the run time on these might compare to the more common Low self discharge NiMh 1.2 volt rechargeable AAA's. Using the link to the "Sorbo" Lithium cells, they claim to have a 400mAh capacity. Doesn't sound like much but anything using Li-ion chemistry is going to have a peak charge of 4.2 volts. My rechargeable LSD Duracell AAA's charge up to 725mAh. Matter of fact I had to charge all of those tonight and almost all varied only about +/- 10mAh. Because of the voltage difference and chemistry of the cells the only way to compare run time ( not having any of the new ones myself ) is to compare the listed stats and convert to watt/hrs. When I do the calculations the lithiums look to have about twice the watt/hr. rating as the Duracells. If that's true then they can provide twice the run time as the NiMh Duracells and even keep the lamps at 1.5 volts which should make any lamp designed to run at 1.5 volts to appear brighter.

    Now all this said, don't take what I just said too seriously. I need to get a set of these in my hands so I can do a true hands on comparison. Tonight I'll be placing an order for a set of four of these as well as one of those interesting cell holders mentioned by Desertride.

  9. #409
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    Took a quick look online and still didn't see any 20700/21700 packs yet. Didn't do a whole lotta research though. Anybody know anything available.

    Days are getting shorter. Just getting ready. LOL

  10. #410
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    I doubt you'll see those packs very soon. There are so many cheapo packs out there and 18650 cells are very common (and relatively cheap). Demand on good and pricely packs is not that big aside those riders who already invested in good ones and know things very well. Most of them don't need new ones as they choose to buy quality products.

  11. #411
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    AAA Li-ion cells, continued

    I finally received my order from Amazon. Yesterday, while working, I plugged all of the cells ( 4 ) into my car's USB outlet to charge. The cells I bought came with a USB cord with 4 micro cords attached ( in parallel ). The Amazon ad for the cells say the cells charge within a couple hours. I'm guessing now that would depend on what type of charger you are using as not all USB outlets are equal.

    The down side of using this type of charging system is that you are stuck with it. I cannot charge these cells using my very nice 4-bay cell charger. You have to use a USB power source. That means I have to use one ( or more ) of my plug-in USB chargers. Not a big deal but I now might have to buy me another plug-in USB wall charger because I now have so many bike accessories that require USB charging I am running out of available plugs to charge all the stuff.

    The cells took a good number of hours to charge but that was using just one of my car's USB outlets. Took about 7 hrs but that was while doing my job and the USB outlets in my car don't charge unless the car is running. ( the cells have red LED's to show they are charging ) If I had charged them at home using my plug in wall chargers likely they would have charged faster. In retrospect my AAA Duracell NiMh batteries charge in my 4-bay charger in less than two hours.

    When I got home from work last night I did a late night road ride on my road setup. I replaced the Duracells with the new Li-ion cells in my wheel lights and so far all seems to be fine. The real issue will now be, "How long will these run compared to the NiMh. Like I said before I think the Li-ions will run longer but the real test is in actual use so I'll let you know how this works out. BTW, I tested the voltage output on the new Li-ion AAA's and all of them were measuring just a hair over 1.5 volts.

  12. #412
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    Something like "usb meter tester" would come handy in this case. Search on Amazon or eBay for it. I've got something like this:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

    Shows all you need during charge or dischage, just need correct cabling.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Something like "usb meter tester" would come handy in this case. Search on Amazon or eBay for it. I've got something like this:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

    Shows all you need during charge or dischage, just need correct cabling.
    Very cool. I'll see if I can pick one of those up with my next order. I forgot to add in my last post that it will be interesting to find out just how much self-discharge these new cells will produce. If I had one of those USB meters that might help me judge that as well.

    Right now the big heat wave has hit my area. I had planned on doing a MTB ride tonight but I might change that to just a local road ride. ( I want the option to bail if it is just too hot ) I don't want to kill myself on a MTB ride if it's this hot. At my age and fitness level I have to be careful. Hopefully things will cool down once the sun goes completely down. For me the cutoff line for night MTB rides is 85įF. Real glad I don't live in Arizona. Hats off to those who can ride in the super heat of the summer.

  14. #414
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    Cat, any experience on capacity for those batteries?

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Cat, any experience on capacity for those batteries?
    No but I should have more info by the end of next week. I have some things I want on Amazon so I should be placing an order sometime next week. When I do I'll order the USB meter you posted. So far I've gotten a couple of rides in with these batteries. My NiMh's seemed to poop after about five rides so by the end of next week I should know more.

    Today I did a mountain bike ride....finally. Sadly I might have to put the MTB into the shop for some major repairs. My rear rapid-fire shifter just ain't getting the job done anymore. After about 14 years of use I think the internals of the shifter are partially stripped.

    Sometimes when I attempt to down-shift nothing happens. Real PITA when you hit the shifter and the cable doesn't even move. Doesn't do it all the time though. I think the ratcheting mechanism inside the shifter is just worn out. When these were new ( non-rapid rise ) they were suppose to be able to down shift three gears at one time. That ain't been happening for many a year. Need to get this done before my next vacation.

  16. #416
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    @Ledoman; When I finished my road right last night ( Sunday ) all of my wheel lights were working. While I was carrying my bike inside the house two of the lights went out and would not come back on. Then the third light likewise as I was moving my bike around inside my home. Only one of the wheel lights was still working but that might be because that particular lamp is a different make than the others ( same form factor as the others but has an on/off button the others don't ). Looks like the others but might have a more efficient driver. . That said I'm sure it's not too far behind the others so I'm now charging all the AAA's. Not sure how many rides I got in using these but I think three, but could of been four. Most of my night road rides don't last more than an hour but tonight I think I was out a little longer.

    Anyway, If I got four rides in that is pretty much what I was getting from the NiMh AAA's I use. I could wish for more run time but hey, these are AAA's. I think it safe to say at this point that they aren't significantly any better than the NiMh's I was using. At least switching out batteries with the wheel lights I use is pretty easy to do. ( just unscrew the top where the battery slot is, flip the wheel upside down and the battery falls out. Takes a couple minutes to do both wheels but that's no big deal if you want to use something like wheel lights.

    Now that I think about it, I recharge almost all my various small self-contained lights after about three rides. I'm sure some of them would run longer but I don't want to take a chance and lose any of my lights while I'm out so I make sure they don't run too low.

  17. #417
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    Received; Trustfire 4-cell 18650 battery box

    Just check my mail box and looks like my 4-cell battery holder came in. Right now I don't have 4 18650's of the same type so I had to use what I had just to test it. Everything seems to work and the threaded connector works very well with my ITUO XP3. ( Awe heck, I just realized it doesn't matter if it's threaded because none of my extension cables are threaded anyway...whatever, as long as it works )

    I still haven't figured out what the button on top does I just know that when I press the button the battery indicator on top lights up and everything works. When I say everything I mean both the USB and bike connector will work at the same time. I doubt I'll use this directly mounted to my frame since I use the XP3 on the helmet. The B-box will sit inside my hydration pack.

    I just now ordered 4 LG MJ1's ( 3500mAh ) 18650's. Orbtronic had them on sale for $6 a piece. Not worried that they are unprotected. Now if it turns out that they might be a bit short I can throw some mini-magnets on them to make them longer. I don't think I'll need to do that though as the box seemed to work with the two MJ1's I already have.

  18. #418
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    Nice to hear it looks promissing (to some point). Does USB works regardless of button press or it has to be pressed?
    Would love to see protection circuit to be compared with those SolarStorm cases. And few pictures please.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Nice to hear it looks promissing (to some point). Does USB works regardless of button press or it has to be pressed?
    Would love to see protection circuit to be compared with those SolarStorm cases. And few pictures please.
    I have to test it again to find out how and what the button actually does. The batteries I ordered will probably arrive by Tues of next week. I'll mess with it again when I get home from work tonight but only because I want to know what exactly the button does or doesn't do.

    The circuitry of the box is inside the lid of the box. There are two small screws that look like you can remove to access where the electronics are but I'm not going to mess with that because...well...I tend to screw things up like that. I have no idea if there is any protection to the main output. The directions on the box ( I think ) recommends using protected cells but that might only be because the box is designed for protected cells ( those being longer ).

    I don't put much faith in what was written on the box though. That's because when I put the cells in according to what was shown on the shipping box it wouldn't work. Then I happened to notice that the "plus and minus" indicators were actually written inside the box. Figures that what was written on the shipping box was wrong.

    I also want to retest just to see if the box will work with just two cells. I figure it should but I need to find the right configuration. I ordered mine from Amazon but you can find these almost anywhere. I still had to wait a month to get it as it apparently was shipped from China.

    FWIW if seemed to work very well with my XP3 which I'm sure draws a lot of current on high. Output of my lamp looked very bright. I'll probably also try it out mounted to my bike just to see if the vibration causes any problems but I'll wait till I get my new cells before I do that. Almost all of my dedicated bike battery packs have at least 3-4 years on them. At some point I'll have to replace them and so if these cell holders work well that could end up being a very cost efficient way to power my bike lights. For the moment though I'm apprehensive as to how well these are going to work.

  20. #420
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    I received the trustfire box as well and am currently testing it with four reclaimed LG cells. Here are a few observations:

    1) build quality seems really good, with a nice finish and a tight 0-ring seal. The velcro strap secured on all four corners and appears robust.
    2) there are springs on both ends. I gave the box a bunch of good shakes and whacks from all directions and the light kept shining on, so it looks like it would work for off road
    3) the button activates the battery indicator and the USB output. when there is no light on, there is no USB out. The button has no effect on the 8.4 v out
    4) 8.4 and USB outs can work simultaneously.

    Very satisfied thus far, but we'll have to see how it works in the field.

  21. #421
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    Can you test it with your most powerful light or even with two in parallel? It would be nice to see how much current it can stand. Solarstorm cases are not usable for higher demand. Specialy regulated lights have problems when voltage drops and light tries to pull high current then protection circuit cuts off the power.

  22. #422
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    I don't have anything on hand aside from an old single emitter chinese light, but I'm charging my phone at the same time... Next week I can try it with an ITUO XP3

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    I received the trustfire box as well and am currently testing it with four reclaimed LG cells. Here are a few observations:
    Could you please repeat a link for that box?

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Could you please repeat a link for that box?
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dura...50714c4d35woKL

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    Thank you!

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    I received the trustfire box as well and am currently testing it with four reclaimed LG cells. Here are a few observations:

    1) build quality seems really good, with a nice finish and a tight 0-ring seal. The velcro strap secured on all four corners and appears robust.
    2) there are springs on both ends. I gave the box a bunch of good shakes and whacks from all directions and the light kept shining on, so it looks like it would work for off road
    3) the button activates the battery indicator and the USB output. when there is no light on, there is no USB out. The button has no effect on the 8.4 v out
    4) 8.4 and USB outs can work simultaneously.

    Very satisfied thus far, but we'll have to see how it works in the field.
    Got my LG's in on Friday. I can verify everything Desertride said as true. The button only turns off the USB. Regardless, with the USB turned off the output on the lamp side is still hot. The LED indicators only come on when the USB is on....and lastly, it will work with only two cells.

    There is some wiggle room ( width wise ) with the cell bays if you are using non-protected cells. You might think that might cause some problems but with the top closed down and tightened I can shake it hard and I hear no rattling of cells so this looks like a fairly nice cell holder.

  27. #427
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    If you run a pack like this down until the overdischarge is activated, what should the normal range of voltages be for the individual depleted cells, and how big of a variance indicates that they are not well balanced? Is any of the variance caused by the 2p2s setup?

  28. #428
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    According to the observations posted, the electronics seems to be identical (or quite similar) to the SolarStorm box:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...yc-943638.html

    The difference in voltage between cells is solely depends on their quality and prior matching (capacity, internal resistance), if any.

  29. #429
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    Quality cells should not go below 2.8V or 2.5V for some newer ones. But this is the very same moment when it stops discharging. In a few seconds voltage would start rising and would stabilize at about 3.3-3.4V. This is due internal rebalance. So measuring voltage after you took cells out of box won't tell you what was the voltage when protection kicked in. You need to do it in time ie. monitor cells voltage all the time. You need to put some probes on the springs.

    Balanced cells are within few hundreds of V. Something like 0.01 - 0.03V difference. Discharge curve should be almost equal, it is not only the voltage to say cells are balanced, but if they are from the same batch it is very likely to be equal.

    Welded packs are better than those cases in few regards:
    - welding has much less resistance comparing to springs ie. less voltage drop
    - welded packs monitors middle point thus knows the voltage of each pair of cells
    - current has more paths to flow ie. more balanced load

    In those cases cells doesn't have middle contact and it operates as two "big" cells in parallel. You know only the stage of that "big" cell not for each 18650. With quality cells there is less to worry. Anyway it is good to balance the cells from time to time. You can simply charge them in 4 bay charger or connect for some time all 4 in parallel using some magnets and piece of wire on each side. Out of case of course.

  30. #430
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    If I understand correctly, the voltage I read when I remove them does not indicate if they are balanced? In theory these LG cells should be balanced when they were first put in the laptop battery I took them from. I've been charging them in a 4 bay nitecore charger.

  31. #431
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    Yes you are correct, that voltage might vary more at the end. Since you charge them with Nitecore charger they are supposed to be filled all the same and balanced. You can check them right off the charger. If you leave them resting for a day and measure the voltage they should be still all the same (almost). Preferbly they would retain the voltage from previous day. If the cells differ more than few mV this might indicate differencies which can lead to unbalanced cells. But again, for you it doesn't matter if you charge them ocasionaly in Nitecore charger.

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    I just pulled six Samsung 26f cells from a laptop battery that all look to be in much better shape, so hopefully that will give me more use of the box.
    BTW, I notice that on the box it says "EB02 mobile power box only applies to 18650 battery [with protection PCB]" so I guess they only want you to use protected cells?

  33. #433
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    Have you checked the voltage of each cell after you pulled them out of laptop pack? It could be idicative.

    Well, to be more safe using protected cells if good option, but if you have good cells and know what are you doing it is not necessary.

  34. #434
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    yeah, they all measured 3.78

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    Excelent.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    I just pulled six Samsung 26f cells from a laptop battery that all look to be in much better shape, so hopefully that will give me more use of the box.
    BTW, I notice that on the box it says "EB02 mobile power box only applies to 18650 battery [with protection PCB]" so I guess they only want you to use protected cells?
    Yes, I think I mentioned that I read the same thing. If you are one of those people who characteristically runs your batteries down to shut-off you should at least run one protected cell for each of the sets in series. I'm using non-protected but only because I know I almost never plan to ride really long night rides. If I were to use half of the listed capacity of my cells I would be amazed. Matter of fact when I do my first ride with these I'll know the next day how much my cells discharged after I recharge them in my 4-bay AccuPower charger.

    *Edit...Of course I should add that if you use only non-protected cells you have no protection against something bad happening if somehow there was to occur a short somewhere in the connecting wires. While rare it can happen. Yep, if that happened the result would be realllllll bad.

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    Anyone noticed this "new" battery case available from FT!
    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-9656661-1.jpg
    I wouldn't rely on its quality though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    If there are springs on both ends of the cells and they are fairly stiff, It should work pretty well. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts and experiences once you have one.

    If it turns out well, I'd likely buy a few and gut out all the USB and other BS and end up with a good battery case.
    I ordered a couple of the Trustfire cases from Amazon and they arrived today, I put some good charged cells in one and the battery meter LEDs indicated low charge so I figured that was a sign from Cthulhu that it needed to be rid of the USB appendage and I immediately set to ripping it apart. I removed the PCB and hard wired the spring ends to a cable. There are springs on both ends, but with unprotected cells you can still induce loss of contact with hard shaking in a vertical orientation. Probably not mounted horizontally the way I normally run them. And no more dead cells if you forget about them for too long. I added a neoprene foam pad to one side, and I am expecting that the cells may rattle enough while riding to need a pad or cushion of some sort inside, that remains to be seen. It would probably also help with the contact issue if they didn't move so freely inside. Overall it's a decent case, better than the other similar ones I have tried but far from perfect.The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180717_193954.jpg

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    Velodonata, can you take sharp macro pictures of the PCB and post it here (+ full size picture somewhere). It would be interesting to see how it is constucted.
    I've ordered one from eBay, but it will take month or two to reach me.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Velodonata, can you take sharp macro pictures of the PCB and post it here (+ full size picture somewhere). It would be interesting to see how it is constucted.
    Sure, I hope these are good enough.

    Some more observations: In comparing the one that is not yet modified to the one I did last night, there is already noticeable compression of the springs from having had cells in and out several times, not surprising but better springs would have been nice. The straps seem decent, they are actually stitched together instead of heat fused, I suppose that it better? The case shape and the integrated strap slots are nice, but not including padding is lame. I keep adhesive backed neoprene foam around for this sort of thing. The aluminum knob is definitely a step up from the other similar cases, and the o-ring seal is tight. It has an index groove on one side of the cover that is also better than the one slightly different corner profile of the other cases. Bold polarity markings inside the case are a nice touch. The second one also read only one of three green LEDs with fully charged cells, so that is lame but then I didn't get these for USB use so it doesn't really affect me. I haven't messed yet with the 6-cell one I also received.

    These won't be my primary packs but they will get use as loaners and backups, it seems like nobody will ever bother to make a really good housing for loose cells. Keystone sleds seem to be the highest quality way to contain loose cells, I will keep playing with the best way to utilize them.

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_102850_2.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_102902_2.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_103856_2.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_104214_2.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_104256_2.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-img_20180718_104313_2.jpg

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    The second one also read only one of three green LEDs with fully charged cells, so that is lame ]
    It is working, it's just configured with green, yellow, red indicators. One green is full.

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    Velodonata, good pictures, thanks. I'm wondering if the B1 point has connection to the R2 and C2. It's hard to see. Can you please check with DMM? If so B1 should be connected to the bottom of case adding missing middle check point to read voltage of each pair of cells. I know, it's hard to do it. Firstly all four bottom springs should be cross connected and somehow wired to B1.

  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    It is working, it's just configured with green, yellow, red indicators. One green is full.
    Well I'll be damned, I had that all wrong. It would be nice if the box indicated that. So how did I get that in my head, I would have swore my other old cases with the same one button, 3 LEDs setup worked that way, am I just remembering it wrong? I never really use that feature anyway, but I don't like to spread misinformation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Velodonata, good pictures, thanks. I'm wondering if the B1 point has connection to the R2 and C2. It's hard to see. Can you please check with DMM? If so B1 should be connected to the bottom of case adding missing middle check point to read voltage of each pair of cells. I know, it's hard to do it. Firstly all four bottom springs should be cross connected and somehow wired to B1.
    Yes, there is continuity among those three points. It does seem like it would be a lot of trouble to fix that problem. I am going to run these gutted and hope I don't loan one to somebody dumb enough to run my batteries down too far. I always charge the good loose cells individually anyway.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    ....Some more observations: In comparing the one that is not yet modified to the one I did last night, there is already noticeable compression of the springs from having had cells in and out several times, not surprising but better springs would have been nice. The straps seem decent, they are actually stitched together instead of heat fused, I suppose that it better? The case shape and the integrated strap slots are nice, but not including padding is lame. I keep adhesive backed neoprene foam around for this sort of thing. The aluminum knob is definitely a step up from the other similar cases, and the o-ring seal is tight. It has an index groove on one side of the cover that is also better than the one slightly different corner profile of the other cases. Bold polarity markings inside the case are a nice touch. The second one also read only one of three green LEDs with fully charged cells, so that is lame but then I didn't get these for USB use so it doesn't really affect me. I haven't messed yet with the 6-cell one I also received...
    OH crap on me! I had no idea you could buy adhesive backed neoprene! Damn, just placed an Amazon order yesterday too. Amazon sells everything. Oh well, will get with my next order. Not real easy to see that groove on the lid when putting on the top. I might have to mark it better to make it easier to see. Piece of tape should do the trick.

    @Ledoman; I ordered one of those USB meters. Should have it Saturday.

    Damn am I pissed. I'm off from work next week and just looked at the forecast for next week. Incredible but it seems it's projected to rain almost everyday. It's stuff like this that drives me insane. It almost seems to do this every time I get a week off. ...Strange but there was this character in the book, "Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy", that everywhere the guy went, it rained. Rain just followed him everywhere. According to the author he didn't know it but he was a "rain god"...I'm beginning to think I'm turning into one of those only in my case only when I'm on vacation.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    .....there is already noticeable compression of the springs from having had cells in and out several times, not surprising but better springs would have been nice.
    That's disappointing. Scratch these off the "things to order list".
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Damn am I pissed. I'm off from work next week and just looked at the forecast for next week. Incredible but it seems it's projected to rain almost everyday. It's stuff like this that drives me insane. It almost seems to do this every time I get a week off. ...Strange but there was this character in the book, "Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy", that everywhere the guy went, it rained. Rain just followed him everywhere. According to the author he didn't know it but he was a "rain god"...I'm beginning to think I'm turning into one of those only in my case only when I'm on vacation.
    In my country, it's raining at autumn, raining at winter, raining at spring, and raining at summer. So, I've used to ignore the rain - otherwise, I'll have to select some other hobby instead of biking...

    BTW, one of recent weekly rides of our cycling club occurred at the day when 1/3 of monthly precipitation quote was dropped at us within 1.5 hours:
    local news 1 local news 2

    (no need to bother with GoogleTranslate; just watch the video clips)


  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    In my country, it's raining at autumn, raining at winter, raining at spring, and raining at summer. So, I've used to ignore the rain - otherwise, I'll have to select some other hobby instead of biking...

    BTW, one of recent weekly rides of our cycling club occurred at the day when 1/3 of monthly precipitation quote was dropped at us within 1.5 hours:
    local news 1 local news 2

    (no need to bother with GoogleTranslate; just watch the video clips)

    When I was younger I used to ride in rain and other adverse conditions. Just not real fun and I found it tended to wear out parts on my bike really fast. It also really was a PITA having to clean the bike after one of those outings. I have no access to a hose so I would have to clean using buckets of water or taking to a car wash. None of that was fun either or easy to do.

    At the moment I have no rain gear that fit's me anymore. Regardless even if I did it wouldn't matter, I hate rain. If you wear glasses there simply is no way to prevent the rain from covering your glasses. I thought of trying something like "Rain-X" on my glasses but my glasses have an anti-reflective coating on the lenses and I wouldn't want to take the chance it might have some adverse effect and ruin my glasses.

    If you live in a mountainous area rain only effects the trails so much since most of the trail surfaces are rock. Where I live it's low lying dirt. Depending on how much it rains makes a big difference. The formula I use for riding after a rain for my area is this. ( in the summer )< 0.25", can ride the next day. ~1" can ride in two or three days depending on time of day when it actually stops. > 2" over a period of 2-3 days and you're pretty much done for several days. I use the local private weather stations on "Weatherunderground" to help judge what areas near me had what amount of rainfall. Their graphs tell you not only how much rain fell but when it started and when it ended. Without that tool I would be taking chances on driving far distances and then end up wasting a lot of time and gas.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    ..Some more observations: In comparing the one that is not yet modified to the one I did last night, there is already noticeable compression of the springs from having had cells in and out several times, not surprising but better springs would have been nice. The straps seem decent, they are actually stitched together instead of heat fused, I suppose that it better? The case shape and the integrated strap slots are nice, but not including padding is lame. I keep adhesive backed neoprene foam around for this sort of thing....
    Hmmm....All I can say is, "We'll just have to wait and see how well these springs hold up over the long haul". It dawned on me after my last post that I already have some sponge like adhesive backed weather stripping laying around so I put some of that on the box to see how it would work on the frame of my bike. Seems to do okay and doesn't seem to move too much. I bounced the bike around in my home while connected to my GW X2 and didn't see any problems. In the long run it will depend on how long the springs hold up. Of course you could always add some magnets to the back of the cells if the springs start to compress. That could extend the usefulness of box. I figure if they last a couple seasons you've pretty much got your monies worth out of it.

    I'm still waiting for a box that will hold 2 x 20700's or 4 x 20700's.

    @Ledoman; I noticed tonight while looking at something on Amazon that I saw another brand of Li-ion AAA's only these claim a capacity rating of 1040mah. I was tempted to buy some but then I noticed the very low rating ( less than 3 stars ). Could be the people who are buying them don't know how to properly charge them or to put the cap back on right. I'll wait though till I know more about the ones I already have. I should have the USB meter tomorrow. Then I'll have to find a way to discharge the cells. I have been using them this week so they shouldn't have too much juice left.

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ....@Ledoman; I noticed tonight while looking at something on Amazon that I saw another brand of Li-ion AAA's only these claim a capacity rating of 1040mah. I was tempted to buy some but then I noticed the very low rating ( less than 3 stars ). Could be the people who are buying them don't know how to properly charge them or to put the cap back on right. I'll wait though till I know more about the ones I already have. I should have the USB meter tomorrow. Then I'll have to find a way to discharge the cells. I have been using them this week so they shouldn't have too much juice left.
    I've got my Li-ion AAA's charging right now with one on the USB meter. Figuring out how to work the meter is going to take some time. The instructions ( likely translated from Chinese ) are not very helpful. Right now the screen is set for Wh so I'll wait till it's done before I start playing with the mode button. ( don't want to accidentally reset ). I'm hoping it will easily change over to mAh when I fiddle with the modes but I have to wait. If something happens and I end up resetting I'll do the conversion using the math.

    So far it's been on the charger for almost an hour and the Wh ( watt hour ) reading is not too impressive. I did notice that when I put the AAA on the charger the Amp output started out at about 1.3A and then quickly began to drop. At the moment it is holding at about 80ma. I expect the battery to finish in another hour but that's just my guess. I am now also the proud owner of a ten port USB fast charger. Can't wait to see how well it charges my phone. Now all I have to do is find all those spare USB to micro cords that I stowed away somewhere.

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    Continued from last post:

    Okay, not real happy with the results of the test. Not to mention I'm not sure what to make of the reading off the meter. Meter says the battery took a charge equaling to 0.92 Wh. The meter equates this to only 175mAh and this is where things get strange. When I do the calculations based on the Wh's I get somewhere between 219-248mAh ( depending on what value you use for voltage, nominal 3.7 or 4.2 peak. ( pause for thought ).....okay I think I know what the meter is doing. It is using the voltage reading off the charging unit ( 5.29 volts ) as it's base voltage for the conversion. Don't know why it would do that. perhaps there is a way to set the meter to 4.2 volts, I don't know. Anyway, charging time was 2hrs and 13 minutes. I'm going to go with 248mAh which is still pretty lame.

    Still these were listed as being 400mAh so that seems to be your typical Chinese BS claim. Of course this is something that is charging using two separate charging circuits in series, the one in the USB charger and the one built into the battery. Hard to say how all this factors in. I'm just happy I can get at least three to four short rides in with these in my wheel lights.

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    OH crap on me! I had no idea you could buy adhesive backed neoprene! Damn, just placed an Amazon order yesterday too. Amazon sells everything. Oh well, will get with my next order. Not real easy to see that groove on the lid when putting on the top. I might have to mark it better to make it easier to see. Piece of tape should do the trick.
    Yes, that neoprene is handy and I did get it from Amazon. So it turns out that small strategically placed pieces of 1/8" neoprene placed on the flats of the internal support of the case are just the thing to keep the batteries from rattling and moving around, and help the springs keep contact in the rough stuff. I also put some Scotch 8896 tape on the neoprene to cut down on the grippiness of it, otherwise the batteries can be a bear to get out. Silver Sharpie works well to highlight the index spots. These things may be more trouble than they are worth once it's all done!

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    That's disappointing. Scratch these off the "things to order list".
    It is disappointing, but not unexpected. Pretty standard for any little wire spring to take a new set once it gets put to use, and I'm sure these are metallurgically nothing to brag about. I can't say how much of a problem it will pose over time, but they haven't lost all tension, just taken a new shorter set from being well compressed. I think the internal foam pads I installed to better support the batteries will help the springs.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Yes, that neoprene is handy and I did get it from Amazon. So it turns out that small strategically placed pieces of 1/8" neoprene placed on the flats of the internal support of the case are just the thing to keep the batteries from rattling and moving around, and help the springs keep contact in the rough stuff. I also put some Scotch 8896 tape on the neoprene to cut down on the grippiness of it, otherwise the batteries can be a bear to get out. Silver Sharpie works well to highlight the index spots. These things may be more trouble than they are worth once it's all done!
    Yes, that sounds like an interesting idea. If mine start to rattle I might have to try something like that. It will ( as you said ) make getting the cells out a lot harder to do. Just now I tried shaking mine more vigorously and yes I can make them rattle although not easy to do. I might have to do what you did and then use needle nose pliers to get the cells out when I need to charge the cells.

  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I might have to do what you did and then use needle nose pliers to get the cells out when I need to charge the cells.
    With the bare neoprene it was close to needing tools to get them out, but adding the tape layer lets you shake them out enough to grab them. Using the right thickness of foam is key. I just wanted them lightly snug. Another option, there is probably room to make a little hook tool to pull them out, too. They can stay in there most of the time, I will just take them out for individual charging occasionally, they aren't going to go out of balance enough to matter for a while.

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    Cat, sorry for late reply. Not shure which USB meter device you have exactly, but there should be the button to switch between different views. Reseting might be done by long press or something similar. Also there might be 9 or 10 sets of data to remember and you can cycle through them. If you don't have instructions I can find them for you. Just send me a link to your device.

    I'm not surprised you can fill only small amount of energy in those AAA cells. Then of course it returns even less due stepdown conversion. Wh/mAh in USB meter should be calculated at discrete points and sumarized. So using current and voltage at given time, not averages.

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Cat, sorry for late reply. Not shure which USB meter device you have exactly, but there should be the button to switch between different views. Reseting might be done by long press or something similar. Also there might be 9 or 10 sets of data to remember and you can cycle through them. If you don't have instructions I can find them for you. Just send me a link to your device.

    I'm not surprised you can fill only small amount of energy in those AAA cells. Then of course it returns even less due stepdown conversion. Wh/mAh in USB meter should be calculated at discrete points and sumarized. So using current and voltage at given time, not averages.
    This is the meter. I pretty much figured most of it out but there is a person who commented on Amazon that detailed most of the functions.

    The mAh reading appears to use the voltage from the charging source. This is no problem but the battery itself has it's own voltage. Once charged it will discharge at a given rate and thus have it's own mAh reading. While this may vary a bit depending on load, it will give you more of a "real world " useful number. That said this is why watt hrs are at times more useful to work with. The best way to get the mAh reading from the battery itself would be to do a discharge test and/or do a recharge test using a voltage source nearer the peak voltage of the battery being tested.

    Another possibility; Could be the battery inside the cell is an actual 400mAh battery but the charging circuit inside the battery could possibly only be designed to charge the cell to only a certain percentage of the actual capacity. No way to know for sure though unless someone were to disassemble the cell, remove the PCB and then test the capacity of the actual Li-ion cell being used.

    Would be nice to convert something like this USB tester over to standard battery connectors so you could read Wh or mAh when ever you felt the need with your standard battery packs. Likely they make something like that but it would have to be able to handle 10A to be on the safe side.

  58. #458
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    I've got one from Atorch 3.60V ~ 32.5 V and - 0.00A ~ 5.00 A which suits for most needs.

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-htb129ljrpxxxxclapxxq6xxfxxxb.jpg

    I've dismontled plastic cover and soldered standard 5.5x2.1mm connectors to it at USB ports. Made apropriate dent to plastic cover so I could put it back in place.

    Testing battery could be done on the field having meter inline between battery and light. Of course it would be better to have 10A one, but you just need to choose right light for it. Most are below 5A, so no problem with that. Since meter could be dimmed after few seconds (see instructions for BL) it is perfect just to check situation from time to time nad not using much power.

    At the end of course you can easily check how much energy you have used. Of course there is some voltage drop over it (+ connectors) so the measurment is bit off, but it can give you fairly good information what was happening. Alternatively you can use resistor load to get info on energy/capacity of the battery pack. Don't forget resistors get really hot and it is advised to cool them somehow.

    Will try to take picture of my moded "device".

    PS. I've found similar 15A device.

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    I've got one from Atorch 3.60V ~ 32.5 V and - 0.00A ~ 5.00 A which suits for most needs.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've dismontled plastic cover and soldered standard 5.5x2.1mm connectors to it at USB ports. Made apropriate dent to plastic cover so I could put it back in place.

    Testing battery could be done on the field having meter inline between battery and light. Of course it would be better to have 10A one, but you just need to choose right light for it. Most are below 5A, so no problem with that. Since meter could be dimmed after few seconds (see instructions for BL) it is perfect just to check situation from time to time nad not using much power.

    At the end of course you can easily check how much energy you have used. Of course there is some voltage drop over it (+ connectors) so the measurment is bit off, but it can give you fairly good information what was happening. Alternatively you can use resistor load to get info on energy/capacity of the battery pack. Don't forget resistors get really hot and it is advised to cool them somehow.

    Will try to take picture of my moded "device".

    PS. I've found similar 15A device.
    The link to the other one on Aliexpress is a good find and would be easier to adapt over to bike battery connectors. I had a question as to whether or not the unit would store the last readings if the power was interrupted. I tried it with the one I have and it does indeed save the last reading. Mine too is rated for ~ 5A but I don't think I'd be comfortable putting something like this USB type in-line with something like my XP-3. With the XP-3 I'm figuring with 3 x XM-L2 emitters it could possibly draw more than 5A.

    Of course if you were using something like this and your battery died you wouldn't be able to read anything on the meter until you connected it to another power source. I saw this unit on Amazon. A little bigger than the one you linked to on AExpress but the one on Amazon apparently has some option to included an additional optional power source. Perhaps it can also stay operational with a couple button cells as back up (?) ( not required though ). It also apparently has the ability to limit peak current levels to prevent damage to your battery. That might come in real handy if using unprotected cells inside one of those battery holders. I could probably attach it too my cell holder with a couple plastic zip ties. There is also a function with the one on Amazon that will give you a peak reading for amps. I think I'd like knowing what peak amps are being used.

  60. #460
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    Problems with USB to micro cables

    I had something strange happen last night while trying to recharge one of my Raveman lamps. I was using my new ten port USB charger, the USB meter and a USB to micro cord. For some reason the lamp was taking forever to charge. I ended up going to bed and when I got up the lamp looked like it was still charging. ( what the! ) Since I knew something was wrong I took all the cables off and tried with a different cable. With a different cable the meter ( and the lamp ) immediately showed that the battery in the lamp was completely charged ( as did the meter ). For the heck of it I tried the original cable and once again the lamp looked like it still needed to charge...

    I guess this means if you have a bad cable somehow it can screw with what is displayed on the unit being charged. I've had cables go bad before but never before have I had anything like this happen.

  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    In my country, it's raining at autumn, raining at winter, raining at spring, and raining at summer.
    I'm from Vermont.

    There's a saying in Vermont, "What comes after two days of rain?"

    "Monday."

    I don"t live in Vermont anymore.

  62. #462
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    WARNING: Fake cells are being selled on some ALiExpress stores

    I've got them too. Discussion on BudgetLightForum about this issue.

    I've ordered tabbed Panasonic NCR18650B from two stores abt Ali. First one was Liitokala next was VariCore to check if this is common problem.

    There are some visual things you can check. Firstly wrapper are wrinkled on both sides along the cells. Next, printing has different font and some minor differencies. There are also missing printings visible under wrapping. For example 2D barcode which should be on place of the sticker, but there is none.

    Here is full size picture showing differencies - fake cell on the top (VariCore) and original Panasonic below. See some tiny differencies in printing.

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-fake-genuie-panasonic-ncr18650b-batteries_s1200.jpg

    Will add discharge graph later on.....

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-litokalla-tabbed-ncr18650b-compared-geniue-2a.jpg
    It is not all that bad, I've got 3250mA at 2A out of fake cell, but the problem is we don't know which one it is and what quality nor how many charges we can expect.
    Last edited by ledoman; 08-14-2018 at 02:43 AM.

  63. #463
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    So where is a legit place to get 18650B panos?

  64. #464
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    Depends on where you live. For me it is nkon.nl

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    North America- Canada specifically. Donít mind ordering them from overseas, from a legit source.

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    Read the thread at BLF I've linked in post #462 above. You might find out some.

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    So where is a legit place to get 18650B panos?
    Fla. USA....Orbtronic. If you want protected cells you can buy those as well. The protected cells get the Orbtronic label over them and they of course cost more. I buy all my cells directly from Orbtronic now.

    I have to laugh at the graph that was put up because it makes the "so called" fake cells look better...at least true through 75% of the graph. Only difference was at the very end. If these are indeed fake they are very good fakes.

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    .....I have to laugh at the graph that was put up because it makes the "so called" fake cells look better...at least true through 75% of the graph. Only difference was at the very end. If these are indeed fake they are very good fakes.
    I'd be interested to see the discharge curve after 50 or so discharge/charge cycles. I'm betting there would be a notable drop in performance at that point.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  69. #469
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    Well, me too. Of course I won't do that. It would take month or two of everydays work on it. I would need automated charge/discharge station.
    Anyway i plan to make 2S2P battery pack out of those for someone. I'll try to get pack back to test after some time. Mostly people contact me if something is wrong. I not used very often then I would expect even those cells would be good enough.

  70. #470
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    Trustfire 4-cell battery box; First MTB test run

    Yeah it took some time but I finally got a chance to do an actual night time mountain bike ride. No problems with the box. I was of course using it inside my hydration backpack and connected to my helmet mounted XP3. There still remains the question of just how much current is going to come out of one of these. The only thing I can say about that at this point is that I noticed no dimming of the lamp when on it's highest setting. Matter of fact, the few times I actually ran the lamp on high the lamp head got really, really hot. ( ambient temps around 70įF and humidity around 75% )

    At one point the lamp got so hot I had a hard time turning if off without burning my finger. With this in mind I don't think it is using less current. If anything it might be feeding the lamp more current otherwise I'm having a hard time explaining why it got so hot. Might have been because I was just poking along but usually when I'm not riding fast I don't use the highest output. Going forward I might have to start using the remote on the helmet so I can turn it off without my finger getting burned. Turning off the XP3 takes about 4-5 sec. and that is just too long ( while holding the button down ) if the lamp is really hot.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 08-20-2018 at 10:46 AM.

  71. #471
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    Here we go. Now some sellers confess between the lines they are using fake cells.

    VariCore for NCR18650B I've tested and made pictures above:

    Dear customer friend, you are welcome to VariCore brand stores, some recent customer friend feedback, the purchase of the battery, the charger capacity testing capacity than the previous low, here we make a notice, please friends before buying Carefully read this passage, thank you!

    First of all, the type of charger on the market is very much different, with different charger test, the capacity of the display will be different, there is because some countries have become cold, the battery capacity will be affected, the relative Low.

    We summarize the feedback of many friends, for this section battery capacity testing, the actual test capacity is 3050-3450mAh, bought friends, if you test the capacity of 3050-3450mAh, please customers not to friends capacity Not enough for the reason, and to our dispute refunds. If you mind, please do not buy! Thank you


    Somewhere else they write:

    We summarize the feedback of many friends, for this section battery capacity testing, the actual test capacity is 3250-3450mAh, bought friends, if you test the capacity of 3250-3450mAh, please customers not to friends capacity Not enough for the reason, and to our dispute refunds. If you mind, please do not buy! Thank you

  72. #472
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    I'm just wondering what were the actual tested capacities of the VariCore cells. I tried looking at some of the posts but I don't see that anywhere. Personally if I bought cells that were suppose to be 3400mAh I would expect the discharge reading to be at least in the high 3200mAh range.

    Since VariCore is supplying the cell with their own protection I don't find it odd that the wrapper on the cell is not exactly like the ones when the cell is non-protected.

    When I bought my LG-MJ1's from Orbtronic ( unprotected ) I think those cells discharge to somewhere in the high 3300's even though the cells are listed as being 3500mAh. I didn't find that odd in the least. Now if they had been in the 3200 range I would of been disappointed.

    One guy on BLF thought that if the cells were losing more than 0.002 volts a day after buying that the cells were fakes. My goodness! I doubt any of the equipment that I use to measures electronics has an accuracy that is that precise! The guy must work for NASA or something if he can test for something that has a difference of a thousand of a volt. Now if I test something and the result is 4.215 on one day and 4.210 a couple days later I'd likely never even think anything strange about it.

  73. #473
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    First post, just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has continued to the lighting forum. I'm going to start commuting to and from work, so I've made a few purchases based on the discussion here. My commute is relatively short, no longer than 45 minutes each way, and generally on lit paths and roads, so maximum runtime on high mode isn't required.

    I'm looking for a 2s1p pack to strap to my helmet for use with an XP2. I saw Ledoman had reviewed a KD pack with Panasonic cells, but I can't find it anywhere any more. The Rockbros one looks alright, but for the same cost, why not try to find the pack with better cells, right?

  74. #474
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    Yes, Kaidomain has migrated to new web site and all old links doesn't work anymore. Will try to renew them when find time.

    Their battery packs can be found here: http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-and.../battery-packs

    Note there are two 2S1P packs. The difference is in the cable length.

  75. #475
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    Battery on my solarstorm went our, looking for a replacement. Found this on eBay, anyone know anything about innovolta battery packs? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Mag...item3f90a3035d

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handlebarsfsr View Post
    Battery on my solarstorm went our, looking for a replacement. Found this on eBay, anyone know anything about innovolta battery packs? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Mag...item3f90a3035d
    I had to look this up to make sure it wasn't some kind of BS claim. Seems these types of batteries are real. Could make for a nice bike light battery. Since no one else has ever mentioned these before not much is known about how well they work. Hopefully if you buy one you will get the connector you need. This is not a bad price for an American made / shipped battery. If the stated amp hr. is real it should be worth the price.

    You do have other options though. You could buy a Trustfire 4-cell holder and use something like that. Loose cells are easier to buy and also cost less. The standard connector on the Trustfire holder should work perfectly with your SStorm light.

    Anyway, information on the NMC type cells is below, courtesy of Battery University...

    Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (LiNiMnCoO2 or NMC)

    One of the most successful Li-ion systems is a cathode combination of nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC). Similar to Li-manganese, these systems can be tailored to serve as Energy Cells or Power Cells. For example, NMC in an 18650 cell for moderate load condition has a capacity of about 2,800mAh and can deliver 4A to 5A; NMC in the same cell optimized for specific power has a capacity of only about 2,000mAh but delivers a continuous discharge current of 20A. A silicon-based anode will go to 4,000mAh and higher but at reduced loading capability and shorter cycle life. Silicon added to graphite has the drawback that the anode grows and shrinks with charge and discharge, making the cell mechanically unstable.

    The secret of NMC lies in combining nickel and manganese. An analogy of this is table salt in which the main ingredients, sodium and chloride, are toxic on their own but mixing them serves as seasoning salt and food preserver. Nickel is known for its high specific energy but poor stability; manganese has the benefit of forming a spinel structure to achieve low internal resistance but offers a low specific energy. Combining the metals enhances each other strengths.

    NMC is the battery of choice for power tools, e-bikes and other electric powertrains. The cathode combination is typically one-third nickel, one-third manganese and one-third cobalt, also known as 1-1-1. This offers a unique blend that also lowers the raw material cost due to reduced cobalt content. Another successful combination is NCM with 5 parts nickel, 3 parts cobalt and 2 parts manganese (5-3-2). Other combinations using various amounts of cathode materials are possible.

    Battery manufacturers move away from cobalt systems toward nickel cathodes because of the high cost of cobalt. Nickel-based systems have higher energy density, lower cost, and longer cycle life than the cobalt-based cells but they have a slightly lower voltage.

  77. #477
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    Linked battery pack looks good. The only thing I see problematic in some cases is 4A cut-off. More powerful lights might have problems, specialy if the driver is regulated.

  78. #478
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    Iím debating between the innovolta and the trustfire/ loose cells idea. I would want the protected cells, so that pushes the cost higher, and thereís enough information about matches cells and the resistance in the springs to make me want a sealed, welded unit. Maybe Iíll pull the trigger and see how it works.

  79. #479
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    double post
    Last edited by Handlebarsfsr; 10-05-2018 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Double post

  80. #480
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    I was speaking with Kaidomain, and they can do a 1S2P battery pack in rubberized case if there is interest. 2 Panasonic cells.,3.7v.

    I used to build lights that ran on those, so I may order some. Is there interest here?

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handlebarsfsr View Post
    Iím debating between the innovolta and the trustfire/ loose cells idea. I would want the protected cells, so that pushes the cost higher, and thereís enough information about matches cells and the resistance in the springs to make me want a sealed, welded unit. Maybe Iíll pull the trigger and see how it works.
    No doubt welded pack is better if it only has good cells. I would ask the seller which ones they have used. There might be Panasonic NCR18650A (3100mAh). Not many cells out there have that capacity.

  82. #482
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    Is Hunk Lee still a good source for batteries? Link shows shpping from US and the price is good.
    https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/Panasoni...sAAOSwA3dYRioQ
    Mole

  83. #483
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    It should be. I think he's trustworth but never tried personaly except for balancing PCB.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    I was speaking with Kaidomain, and they can do a 1S2P battery pack in rubberized case if there is interest. 2 Panasonic cells.,3.7v.

    I used to build lights that ran on those, so I may order some. Is there interest here?
    I run something similar to this for my Solarstorm2's I got years back. I can get at least 2 hours out of them on medium. I made a splitter and will connect 2 packs together to get longer runtime for my BT40 and Outbound lights. Our manufacturer changed the case on them so they were just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. Best part is custom chargers so I can charge the 2 packs separately and they get done faster than my 4 cell packs.

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handlebarsfsr View Post
    Iím debating between the innovolta and the trustfire/ loose cells idea. I would want the protected cells, so that pushes the cost higher, and thereís enough information about matches cells and the resistance in the springs to make me want a sealed, welded unit. Maybe Iíll pull the trigger and see how it works.
    If this is something that you want to use mounted to the bike frame than I would tend to lean toward the sealed battery pack. I own one of the Trustfire cell holders but I use mine inside my hydration backpack ( for helmet lamp ) where there is not much shock or vibration. So far though I've not heard many people complain about the cells losing contact although someone did say that the springs on theirs had compressed after a period of time. I've not had any problems with mine but I don't use it that much. I'm not worried about spring compression on mine. If that happens I can use small magnets to add length to the cells or worse case scenario I can buy a new one for $15. No big deal as long as it lasts a year or two without problems.

    Keep in mind that if you go the cell holder route that you don't need to use all protected cells. You can use one protected cell per series and that should give you enough protection. I don't use protected cells at all but that's only because I have no intention of doing extremely long rides at night. Two to three hours between medium and high setting and I'm good. I doubt I use half the capacity of the battery on any ride.

  86. #486
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    Do Kaidoman use quality cells in their battery packs? Also, are they protected cells?

    Thanks!

  87. #487
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    See post #2 and read linked threads.

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    I have a generic battery pack that came with a cheap light a while back. I wanted to test it with my newer lights but apparently the pin in the barrel connector is slightly larger than standard. I'm wondering what are the advantages of soldering in a new DC jack versus just taking it apart and loading the cells into a trustfire box.

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-20181018_093214.jpg

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-20181018_093231.jpg

  89. #489
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    I would stay with welded pack. The protection PCB is good enough (standard) and you minimize voltage drop. There is also no parasitic drain (well almost if we are picky). At least three reasons to leave as is and just change the cable with proper connector.

    In a box you would get more resistance over springs (voltage drop), parasitic USB drain and shakey cells. Also thin wires means additional reistance. And finaly protection is semi usable.

    Now when you have opened the pack, check the voltage of each pair of cells to see if they are balanced.

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    I have a generic battery pack that came with a cheap light a while back. I wanted to test it with my newer lights but apparently the pin in the barrel connector is slightly larger than standard. I'm wondering what are the advantages of soldering in a new DC jack versus just taking it apart and loading the cells into a trustfire box.
    Are all 4 of your cells actually connected? I ask as I had 2 generic 4cell packs and when checking them I noticed that only 2 cells in each were actually connected. The other 2 were just glued in place taking up space and in random orientation regarding + and -. I joked that this was how cells are "recycled"

  91. #491
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    It happened before, ask Garry. Yes, you need only two active cells to get proper voltage and they have added 2 dead for weight and look. Average cheapo users are not aware and everything works, just how long...

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    It happened before, ask Garry.
    Yep, as seen in the review of the GearBest Triple XM-L2 light w/pack I reviewed. You can measure voltage across the single cells and if the two measure "0.00" be suspicious.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

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