Battery problem???- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Battery problem???

    Ok need the guys that know 18650 cells:





    Red 3400 "Panasonics" on amazon.





    Bought 2 sets of 4





    I was doing capacity tests on my china cells so 1 set was in 2x 18650 boxes on my shelf, almost fully charged.





    Went to put china cells in the boxes (put these back in ss case) and found a greasy substance in the bottom of one of the boxes where the Panasonics just was. Felt greasy though maybe I got grease or oil in the case or on a cell (was cleaning my garage at the same time) but when I took a wiff of the rag after cleaning the box out OMG like someone put rubbing alcohol on the rag (clean blue shop towel). Nose and throat instantly pissed.





    Ran and washed my hands (I had stuck my finger in the crap). No trace of anything that would appear as acid or chemical had been on my finger for a couple minutes.





    Inspected the cells that were just in the cases and found this:











    Stuff in the case (didn't stick to cell) again was a slimy, greasy, gel like crap. The lightened area on the cell wrap extends up near the positive contact.





    But hard pressed to think it was the cell its only at 80-85% charged, never full cycled yet. Wouldn't have thought twice till I smelled it.



    Oh side note, was inside ss case in direct sun light for a bit before I realized it and moved the case.


    Edit: I did some Google searching and only thing I found was that some cells have grease used during manufacturing and if not cleaned well during the process the grease will leak out when cells get slightly warm. Not sure how true this is but???

  2. #2
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    Wow sorry to hear that you may have a problem here. Of the 3 sets that I have I have only used 1 but it hasn't shown any similar issue. Hope it's nothing but I would hit up amazon CS and see if they will replace

  3. #3
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    I would just return it to amazon as defective and order a new set. I just checked and looks like both the green ones and red ones are back at $19.99
    Green from urban source
    http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NCR1...ds=18650++3400
    Red
    Amazon.com: 4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh: Electronics

  4. #4
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    Thnx guys, I figure its just a fluke, other set and 3 cells from that newest set show no issues. That's what warranties for.

    Man he went up to 19.99 on the greens lol. Well still the second stupid cheap deal ive caught on amazon since the beginning of the yr. Caught slx hubs for $15 when I built my wheels back in Feb.

  5. #5
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    OK contacted amazon.

    I did run the cell through my charger comparing voltages, mah etc to the other 3 cells. All tests came back identical as I had balanced them when I got them, used them for a total of 5-10 mins playing with my lights. Nothing seems to be wrong now and my finger was covered int he crap and no sign of anything. Think I have a bit of a headache now though,lol. Cant tell cause I just took pain pills for my elbow so it feels like its there but cant quite manifest through a hydrocodone and 2 motrin lol.

  6. #6
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    Just for future use. It is good practice to measure every cell voltage as you get them. This is the first sign if anything is wrong. They might be from different batches, diferrent age, etc... If they differs to much those are not good candidates to put together in the same pack. With good cells the difference can only be about 0.01V.

  7. #7
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    ah see i didnt measure it that closely, my charger will tell me but I just didnt look. I balanced them so everything was even but that was it. Havent cycled them through anything yet so couldnt have been over charged or over discharged yet.

    Heard back from amazon, their going to refund me. They cant replace because the seller (though fulfilled by amazon) changes their inventory so much. I know things happen even with the best products. It could very well be a simple issue of they got good and warm in the ss box on the shelf under my garage window, so grease leaked out, I dont know.

    Still no issues with the cell, so going to keep them as spares for now (I ran some of the charge off all of them since i dont know how long theyll be sitting) 3 are fine so not a huge deal, find a use for the other 2 at some point. Use one of these pcbs I got laying around or buy another and make a 2 cell pack so it cant ruin a ss case if it leaks again(other pair already have a use for when my third ss case arrives)

  8. #8
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    Green panasonic cells are OK but I have never ever seen Panasonic cells with red wrapper O_o

  9. #9
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    Sirius, they are Sanyo which was taken over by Panasonic.

  10. #10
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    I know that Sanyo is under the Panasonic now (been for more than a year or so) but this is the first time I see red cells named "Panasonic". We usually call them just Sanyo cells!

    Is there something printed on them,there should be faint SANYO heat stamp (or how ever is that called) on them, on the wrapper or some codes printed (but not "Panasonic" or "NCR")!

  11. #11
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    Ill have to check closer. They arent typical sanyo, they are panasonic specs, match my keep power panasonics I just got pretty closely. Dont knwo of any Sanyo cells that are rated 3400mah or anything close. Also they are from a Japanese company. Hence why I call them "OEM" spec. Still "panasonic" in the sense of the specs but probably some form of changes going on with production types.

    But feel free to correct me if there is 3400mah Sanyos out there anywhere. I just dont know of any and these are listed as panasonic 3400mah NCR18650s on amazon with full good reveiws.

    Edit: Just heard from Amazon, because of the situation (the mess i had to deal with to be on the safe side) not only are they refunding, my next order (amazon/amazon fulfilled) will be one day shipped for free. NICE!!! Love amazon.

  12. #12
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    Awesome, amazon CS always rocks!

    Sirius, these are the ncr18650bf, they were a collaborative effort right around the time of the takeover to test silica in the mix which was supposed to improve performance. I posted an article about it in the battery thread.

  13. #13
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    Found that article. Good info, basically using Sanyo red case look to test new battery tech. Guess im gonna need to replace this set at some point so I have spares before the price goes up.

  14. #14
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    Tigris, would you publish link to this article?

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  16. #16
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    Thnx manbeer. I was going to have to dig for it again.

    Overall makes the cells even more worthy of the $20 for a set of 4 lol.

  17. #17
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    Thanks. Now I remembered that I've already seen it some time ago.

  18. #18
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    Does it make sense when I test the capacity to set my hobby charger to 1S which I think is 3 volts? because when I discharge to 2s it's preset to 6V and it always stops before the protection on the packs engages.

  19. #19
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    Its discharge safety built in, chargers dont do a 100% discharge, the protection circuits on cells are are set usually right about max safe limit, chargers dont go that low for safety. My bc6 wont drop all the way down either last I tried. Haven't tried now that I have full balance adaption and what not for these cells. Mine also has a storage setting too, discharge or charge to optimal storage voltage to avoid any cell memory. The charger discharge circuit is for pack maintenance not testing.



    Only way to do a full test is to use light to do full discharge till protection then recharge. Did that way with my Chinese cells (finding out kd2 pack was 1300mah per cell, my old 808 clone cells are actually about 1400 a cell).

  20. #20
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    Yeah wow I pulled some of the packs I had done tests on and they actually have a good bit of life on them after the 6.0v cutoff on the hobby charger. Just wired up an RC voltmeter/ammeter to keep an eye on it just in case the protection on the packs doesn't cut off in time

  21. #21
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    Hell I just plug and let run. All my protections.have worked fine so far hehe. Usually light head trips before cells/cases.

  22. #22
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    I've had my mj 880 clone running one of those red cell panasanyo packs now since I first saw your last post so about an hour now and it's only down about .25 volts jeez.

  23. #23
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    I'm guess your not on high lol. My china cells dont even make I an hour with lights on high.

  24. #24
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    I was on medium, switched to high like 20 mins ago, still barely making a dent in it. I'm at 5.76 according to my DROK voltmeter, which is about .10 higher than my klein mm1000 reads. Assuming the klein is more accurate so when I began I was at 6.08, been over an hour.

  25. #25
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    When I switch to low the voltage bumps back up to 5.9, this is like Hanukkah for the bike light fanatic. They just won't give up

  26. #26
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    At 5.45 now, about an hour later. Going to stop the test and finish tomorrow, have to head home

  27. #27
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    I found the Sanyo NCR18650BF 3400mAh batteries on FastTech
    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...f-3400mah-3-6v

    There is also a Sanyo NCR18650BL 3400mAh battery there too. Not sure what the difference is.
    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...h-rechargeable

  28. #28
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    w/ carrying case

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    Does it make sense when I test the capacity to set my hobby charger to 1S which I think is 3 volts? because when I discharge to 2s it's preset to 6V and it always stops before the protection on the packs engages.
    Does your hobby charger has function to discharge Li-Lo type of cells? Mine iCharger 106B+ allow me to set discharge limit voltage and I usualy set it to 2.8V when testing capacity. 2.8V is also bottom voltage as a standard HKJ (from BLF fourm) choose to set for all his cell testings.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    I found the Sanyo NCR18650BF 3400mAh batteries on FastTech

    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...f-3400mah-3-6v



    There is also a Sanyo NCR18650BL 3400mAh battery there too. Not sure what the difference is.

    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...h-rechargeable

    Except they are actually Panasonic . And we get 4 if them for $20 right now, dont think fasttech can match a seller on amazon direct from Japan.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Just for future use. It is good practice to measure every cell voltage as you get them. This is the first sign if anything is wrong.
    Exactly!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    They arent typical sanyo, they are panasonic specs, match my keep power panasonics I just got pretty closely. Dont knwo of any Sanyo cells that are rated 3400mah or anything close. Also they are from a Japanese company.
    Both Sanyo and Panasonic are Japanese companies.

  33. #33
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    Nice site, and very good selection of batteries! Will post the link on local forum.

    I've especially liked a comparison of lithium cell to the sleeping volcano...

  34. #34
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    My point wasn't about the price. Unmarked red Panasonics from Ebay had my "feel fishy" senses tingling. Especially when one leaked.

    But with them also being listed by a relatively trusted online store, it makes me more comfortable that the Ebay ones are a genuine product.

  35. #35
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    Well mine are from amazon, not eBay. I wont buy stuff like that off eBay, too hard to trust what your getting and no way id order cells from overseas. These ones are available on amazon prime. Your concern is well justified if it was eBay, think everyone hear would agree with u on that.

  36. #36
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    Pana-Sanyo reds in mudder case, 2s2p
    7026 MAH after 2 full charge and discharge cycles. Ran down to 5.55 and they bounced up to 6.38 overnight

  37. #37
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    Notice slight difference in the specs between the Reds and the Greens. As suspected, red PanSanyos maximum discharge current = 4.85A; green Panasonic =6A. (Thought I had seen the greens rated elsewhere at around 10A, which I found kinda unbelievable, but maybe those were some other cells, huh.) Won't make a difference with most lamp heads but I run mine in pairs on the bars.

  38. #38
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    10a was the ncr18650pf, which I think was 2900mah? I have a set coming in the mail on Monday to try out

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbeer View Post
    10a was the ncr18650pf, which I think was 2900mah? I have a set coming in the mail on Monday to try out
    Amazon.com: Panasonic NCR18650PF 3.6V "2900mAh" Rechargeable Li-Ion Batteries (2-Pack): Electronics ?

  40. #40
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    Ya andy, those are the ones hes talking about. Im not worried about THAT much output lol, but I had looked into them. I went more for capacity. But if your running dual light heads, definately for you. Just make sure your y cable is large enough gauge between pack and the y itself or might not help too much.

    I have red and greens now. Havent noticed a difference. Im going to get a second set of greens so I have 2 sets of each and call it good for a while. That should give me cells for a good long time,lol. Especially since now after the 880 clone issue with amazon, I gave up and just got the mudder. And thats for the Case mainly, one SS case died last night dont know wtf happened (probably my fault lol). Hopefully I can get the USB to work ok cause other half Ill convert to unprotected circuit to run at 4.2v for the KD thing thats on my commuter now.

  41. #41
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    I ran both the red and green cells back to back, discharged pack to 5.55 under load, got 7026mah and 7002mah respectively. So all in all, I'm sure my charger is off by a small margin as it reads a bit high but they are pretty much identical capacitywise. The only thing that I noticed was that the red ones seemed to have different discharge characteristics, seemed slower to drain on the low end, just going from 6V to 5.55 seemed like eternity. The green ones were a bit more rapid like they fell off a cliff below 5.75v or so

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    I found the Sanyo NCR18650BF 3400mAh batteries on FastTech
    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...f-3400mah-3-6v

    There is also a Sanyo NCR18650BL 3400mAh battery there too. Not sure what the difference is.
    https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...h-rechargeable
    Ah, that's why I never thought of them as Panasonic cells. I heard about BF version when they were released but for some reason I always sticked to green cells. I have several PFs, unprotected Bs and some protected Bs. For other application I mainly use Samsung laptop pulls, great value for buck.

    When discharging on my accucel 6 I am using NiCD discharge option because you can set the threshold V from 0,1V all the way to 25V in 0,1V steps.

  43. #43
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    Interesting, im going to have to see if this is an option on my traxxas or the skyrc imax b6 mini that is arriving tomorrow

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