ACEBEAM BK10 Bike Headlight [Rechargeable]- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    ACEBEAM BK10 Bike Headlight [Rechargeable]

    In keeping with the "self-contained" theme, which seems to be very popular right now, I thought I'd start a post on the ACEBEAM BK10. ( saw this on Amazon ).

    This looks interesting although I hate the U.I. ( they should have left out the S.O.S. function which is so torch like. Nevertheless if you can over-look the U.I. there are some interesting features. In a nut shell; uses the Cree XHP70.2 emitter ( output 2000 lumen ) and is using a ( claimed ) 5100mAh 21700 Li-ion cell to power this torch like bike light. Although it's not mentioned I think this means you can replace the battery ( looks like the back might come off ) but I'm not sure.

    In addition there is a very interesting rippled front lens design. The rippled lens is designed to widen the beam pattern and to create a type of cut-off beam pattern. Price ( once again ) is a bit high but considering the use of a replaceable 21700 battery and all the mounts it includes, this might indeed make for an interesting road / commuting option assuming of course that the beam pattern is as wide and far throwing as the ad photo would indicate. I'd love to try one of these out but my Star Trek Enterprise Credit Card has raised it's shields to prevent me from buying another bike light. ( Spock, Spock...help me Spock! )

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    my Star Trek Enterprise Credit Card has raised it's shields
    They don't have any need for money in the 24th century.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Money

    I think you need one of these:


    But hopefully they still have bicycles in the 24th century, and maybe they are still using 21700s.

    That uses an XHP35, max lumens 1700, not the 2000 quoted. Looks nice though.

  3. #3
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    after the oled display of the fenix bc30r I'll never use another light w/o such display

    just too damn addicted to the hours/mins counter which is a huge stress reducer on trail wondering on batt status with simpler red/yellow/green indicators
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    after the oled display of the fenix bc30r I'll never use another light w/o such display

    just too damn addicted to the hours/mins counter which is a huge stress reducer on trail wondering on batt status with simpler red/yellow/green indicators
    When it comes to bike lights with self-contained ( non-serviceable ) batteries I have to agree with you 100%. This is one of the reasons I love the Raveman CR-900 and PR-1200 ( both with digital displays giving the user a number regarding "run time left" )

    If, on the other hand, the Acebeam lamp has a removable battery, that in and of itself allows the user to carry a back up battery thus removing any fear of running out of battery juice.

    Now the draw back of the Acebeam is that they really screwed the U.I. They should have just limited the highest output to 1200 lumen ( 1.5 hrs ) and then had lower modes more like; 800 lumen ( 2hrs ) 600 lumen (2.5 hrs )...350 lumen...etc. Then add a remote control and make sure there is no SOS mode in the user interface ( U.I. ) ( note; my time est. are just that, ballpark estimates )

    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    They don't have any need for money in the 24th century.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Money

    But hopefully they still have bicycles in the 24th century, and maybe they are still using 21700s.

    That uses an XHP35, max lumens 1700, not the 2000 quoted. Looks nice though.
    Great come back. Ah, I could talk for hours on what our world would look like without a form of currency ( but I won't ). I'll just say that without some form of currency the highest form of motivation then becomes the point of a gun.

  5. #5
    arc
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    Apparently the cell is easily removable.

    It's probably a 6000k emitter, hopefully its not glued together too badly as there is a good selection of xhp35 emitters available. If the sense resistor can be changed to get high down to 800 lumens the mode spacing would look better. That would also put the xhp35 in a more efficient range cutting down on heat and helping runtime.

    A 21700 cell is 70 grams, this might make a decent helmet light.

    Now that xhp50's are readily available in 3v and the Luminous sst-40 can finally be found in 5000k I wonder if we can home brew a light that suits us better. 21700 cells are plentiful and hold a higher voltage during discharge compared to the 18650's.

    Convoy has been releasing new lights and are now a good source of batteries drivers and emitters. They have 21700 versions of the S2+ and C8, I'm hoping for an M1 or s2 equivalent. Then we just need to find a family of optics so we can change the beam angle and find someone to make a suitable spacer to make it fit.

    https://convoy.aliexpress.com/store/...64cd3cf1aV8jY9

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    Apparently the cell is easily removable.

    It's probably a 6000k emitter, hopefully its not glued together too badly as there is a good selection of xhp35 emitters available. If the sense resistor can be changed to get high down to 800 lumens the mode spacing would look better. That would also put the xhp35 in a more efficient range cutting down on heat and helping runtime.

    A 21700 cell is 70 grams, this might make a decent helmet light.

    Now that xhp50's are readily available in 3v and the Luminous sst-40 can finally be found in 5000k I wonder if we can home brew a light that suits us better. 21700 cells are plentiful and hold a higher voltage during discharge compared to the 18650's.

    Convoy has been releasing new lights and are now a good source of batteries drivers and emitters. They have 21700 versions of the S2+ and C8, I'm hoping for an M1 or s2 equivalent. Then we just need to find a family of optics so we can change the beam angle and find someone to make a suitable spacer to make it fit.

    https://convoy.aliexpress.com/store/...64cd3cf1aV8jY9
    Thank you for your informative post. Nice to hear the Acebeam 21700 cell is easily removable. Do you have a link for the Convoy S2 with 21700. I did see a C8 version on Banggood. I'm a big Convoy fan. I also agree a 20/21700 version of the Convoy M1 would be sweet. The M1 continues to be my favorite helmet torch. Fantastic throw and great over-all beam pattern for a single emitter torch. The S2 I use on my MTB bars as a back up. Not a big deal for me to own a 21700 version of the S2 because I don't use it that much but a 21700 M1 would be fantastic. Still, likely it would add some extra weight on the lid...which...all things considered I might find unacceptable.

    Edit** Sorry, forgot you already included a link. Still not easy finding stuff on Aliexpress.

  7. #7
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    Hi,
    coz i use it now for ~2 months some infos.


    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post

    It's probably a 6000k emitter, hopefully its not glued together too badly as there is a good selection of xhp35 emitters available.
    Acebeam offers itself a 6000K and a 5000K Version of the Light.

    6000K= typical low CRI ,Cool White LED, What makes the Typical White/Blueish Light in Front of you.
    about the Blue peaks itself, its looks typical unreal/not natural, have high Selfblinding Effekt and destroys the Night Vision from Your Eyes.
    About The Low CRI of Cool LEDs you have no Kontrasts from Objekts on Your Way.
    So overall a bad decision vor a Street Light.

    5000K= Pur White light, looks mor Natural light.
    about the higher CRI Value and lower Blue spikes, it gives you better night vision, more contrast more visibilyty over all.

    coz Acebeam not offers warmer light , Skylumen decide to offers a better option.

    4000K= near no blue Peak much higher CRI value and the Cooler Temperatur looks absolut natural like on a Sunny day, gives the best Performance for a pur Street Light.

    Skylumen offers the 2 Basic lights or the 4000K Version on that he only Swap the LED.

    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post

    A 21700 cell is 70 grams, this might make a decent helmet light.
    18650 cell have ~45 grams and ~3000mah of usable capacity
    21700 cell have ~64 grams and ~5000mah of usable capacity

    You can use both in the Acebeam, for 18650 you need only a sleeve.


    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post

    Now that xhp50's are readily available in 3v and the Luminous sst-40 can finally be found in 5000k I wonder if we can home brew a light that suits us better.
    The efficiency of an XHP50 is much better the XHP35 HI but for this light ist to big.
    bigger size and the Dome will be a problem, the Lens from the Acebeam is optimized for an XHP35 HI.

    an Example on High mode:
    the Acebeam draws 2,3 Amps from the battery to put out in the front 1060 Lumen"light sphere measured"

    Thats ~ 8 Watt Power consumption to give you 1060 Lumen in the Front.

    An XHP50 will draw 1,8 Amps from a Battery to give same Lumen output, that will be ~6,5 Watts,
    but it not fits in the light.

    An XM-L2 LED for example draws 3,5 Amps"13 Watts" from a battery to deliver same Real lumen in front of you, then XHP LED types.

    XHP35 Hi was in this light a good decision, i think.


    the overall performance is fantastic, if you compare it to other ~1000 Lumen street lights!

    example:
    Lupine SL have very Low effciency LED build in with far below 100umen/W and need a 4x18650 battery pack do give you ~2,5 Hours ~1000 Lumens.
    it Draws ~18 Watts for the ~1000 Lumens thats the reason!

    The Acebeam need for the same Performance 1060 Lumen for over 2 Hours 1 Cell!!!!!
    The Acebeam is small enouht to fets in any Pocket.

    an here some Stats, fakts and measurements:

    The light itself gives you a tight and long beam with a nice Cut-off line.
    The Beam itself ist ~4 meter width and runs very long.
    I Like the beam profile very much.

    Its a Street light only!!!!


    It have 3 Steps in the main mode:
    180 Lumen=0,36 Amps drawing
    400 Lumen=0,67Amps draw
    1060 Lumen=2,3 Amps draw

    an mode memory for them.
    Switch of in 400 Lumen= next time turn on will be 400 Lumen.

    Ultra Low and Turbo are direkt access modes.
    Stay on the Button= Ultra Low, dopple click= Turbo from any point.

    aboutr that you came very fast to any wish brightness and thats the BK10 is not overloaded with usless brightnessstemps is a nice + to.

    the driver have a good efficieny value, not perfekt but ok, you see it on Lumen vs Currents.

    The driver is Brightness regulated:
    That means, the Voltage goes down the Amps go up to give you on your ride a 100% constant light level.

    The high and Turbo a Temp regulated with a Step-Down Point for cooling at ~65C.
    The high mode not need that with air cooling but the Turbo with ~2000 Lumen and 19 Watt energy consumption need that.

    at moment the only Street light with a very nice beam profile and a high eff LED typ what gives you heavy runtimes.


    i Use the Light most in 400 Lumen"~2 Watt energy consumption" setting and have with it ~7-8 Hours runtime.


    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    just too damn addicted to the hours/mins counter which is a huge stress reducer on trail wondering on batt status with simpler red/yellow/green indicators
    on this light not needet coz it not limits you.

    If the Battery ist near empty the Light itself make a step-down, what indicates the Battery is near empty.

    To change a empy Cell for a Ful cost you 5 seconds of your lifetime.
    i never look on the color indicator.
    That says take a 18650 or 21700 cell with you gives you unlimited rumtime.

    but for you explaind the Driver:
    if the battery indicator switch from Green to Red ist means Voltage under 3,6 Volts, what says ~30-40%.

    if the Red light indicator starts to blink what is on a Voltage at ~3,1 Volt the light makes a Step-Down to Low mode.

    the low you can use to 2,8 Volts than the First Battery safty Protection or LVP kicks in and shut off the light.depending on the Battery Voltage te Runtime Results are different.

    If you not have a replacement Battery with you, you can restart the light in Ultra Low with ~40 Lumen down to 2,7 Volt as an emergency light use.

    That also says for the BK10 are no Protected Batterys needet, coz the light itselfs does the job.

    Coz the light have no Natural enemies at moment ist sad that no infos shared.

  8. #8
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    Weird - herbs post reads exactly the same as lostplaces post in the OutBound thread. Both are first time posts and include information about AceBeam lights? You sound very intelligent, why try to hide behind two different screen names??


    ****

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    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
    You sound very intelligent, why try to hide behind two different screen names??
    Why someone have to hide, behind some specs or measurments?

    I have try 3 days ago to register but one day later still nothing work, so i try again to register coz i think i do it wrong.

    now at once 1 get bouth unlocked, and try if bouth work.

    Thats the secret.

    coz i see it now another importend info:
    i read here that a user says Acebeam make a rippled lens to widen the beam.

    Thats wrong!

    with a simple Lens you can create an typ of beam, long wide whatever.

    then why they do it?

    its simple answer:

    If you check out different cheap streetlight stuff you will notice alot of discoloations , bluish,Yellowish, whiteish from one LED in this Light!!

    or visible Light fields with dark Holes an other Artifacts in the beam itself.
    And in Street Lights this is absolutly Ugly stuff.

    Acebeam simply decide to smooth the beam a little out"like with a diffuser" to give you a homogeneously, clean light field.
    an with this type of Ripple you dont effekt to much the Cut-off Line.

    Thats a very Professional decision, what i have missed on alot of street lights the last years.

    I asked Acebeam to Remove the 6000K Version coz its remebers to much on cheap chinese stuff.
    we will see if they do it in the future.

    I recommend to only decide between the 5000K or 4000K.

    White light lovers take the 5000K
    wo likes more natural light takes the 4000K

    to offer 6000K ist not very professionally i find.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
    Weird - herbs post reads exactly the same as lostplaces post in the OutBound thread. Both are first time posts and include information about AceBeam lights? You sound very intelligent, why try to hide behind two different screen names??
    I have a feeling that i know the user behind that names from a different forum. This user has some knowledge on some topics, on others he is just convinced to have knowledge without having it. Furthermore he thinks that any other manufacturer than acebeam, zebralight or nextorch is an idiot who doesn't know what they do (but of course he knows everything). Also he is convinced that any other LED than a cree XHP is a bad idea in a outdoor lamp. Furthermore he cannot read data sheets properly and cannot understand that an XHP might not be reliable or useful for certain applications.

    Best to ignore these posts, as he is not really accessible to arguments and mostly chooses himself to ignore arguments that do not fit to his knowledge...

  11. #11
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    ...^...Well at least he claims to have one of the lamps. I'd love to see some "user" beam pattern photos....on high, mid-level and low, all steady.

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ...^...Well at least he claims to have one of the lamps. I'd love to see some "user" beam pattern photos....on high, mid-level and low, all steady.
    He has posted pictures (wallshots and on a bike, see here https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/bike...#post-16047211). imho the lamp has a horrible light distribution. it gives you a bright blob directly in front of the bike and another bright blob a few meters in the front.
    Edit: [blob is of course heavily exaggerated, but for a road/street bike lamp there is imho way too much light in front of the bike, which makes adaption to distance harder]
    However i might be not be a neutral judge on that matter: I consider the OL focal road as a bit too bright close to the bike and that lamp has a very nice light distribution.
    Edit: This wallshot (https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...l#post14045685) - albeit a bit overexposed to get the right impression - or this wallshot (https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...l#post13722577) of the road shows the differnce to the Acebeam BK10. the OL road has much higher intensity closer to the cutoff and relatively little lumens at the bottom of the wall shot, compared to BK10 where there is much more light at the lower half of the wallshot.
    Last edited by biking_tg; 08-25-2019 at 06:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    it gives you a bright blob directly in front of the bike and another bright blob a few meters in the front.
    I see only an overexposed unlucky cam setting, and Different Light fields.

    What is blob?

    Google search give me this.
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094761/

    human eating monsters.

    Can you make details screenshots from your Blob?

    My BK10 makes a Great design Street shape with the Lens.


    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    However as i found that spot infront of the bike with the pretty good OL focal road already to bright, i might be not be a neutral judge...
    It looks so that you have both, can you make from both a Screenshot with same cam setting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    ...
    What is blob?
    ...
    It looks so that you have both, can you make from both a Screenshot with same cam setting?
    I don't have both (i only have the Outbound Road) and since i don't like the presented wall shots and the beam shots from the manufacturer (acebeam) why should i buy a lamp (BK10) for which i see no use ?? Should i see or get to know someone with that light, i'll promise to make a comparison photo.
    I edited my last post and included a link to post with a wall shot, albeit a bit overexposed.

    regarding blob: there are enough online dictionary available which might help you more than google translate. I am shure there is one giving you translation from english to your native language.
    Last edited by biking_tg; 08-26-2019 at 05:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    why should i buy a lamp for which i see no use ??
    If you not see any use for Light with a otimized Light Profile for Road use that is ok.

    I waste 70% of my Bike time on Roads and need exactly that.

    Flashlights are no Option on Roads for me same like bulky and heavy lights.

    They only real alternative at moment on the World market is the Fenix BC35R.


    The Older Version BC30R have a Flashlight beam.
    The New BC35R geht now a more Street Beam Profile.

    The BC35R have Street Profile, but lower runtimes, near double weight, not changeable 2x18650 Batterys.
    so if they run empty you stay in the darkness.
    so no alternative for the BK10 in all therms.

    If you looking for the best Street light on the market......compact, lightweight, High Output and great Runtimes.....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    If you not see any use for Light with a otimized Light Profile for Road use that is ok.
    I waste 70% of my Bike time on Roads and need exactly that.
    ....
    They only real alternative at moment on the World market is the Fenix BC35R.
    i agree that flash lights on a road are a disaster, especially for oncoming traffic or pedestrians. Since i spent also quite some time on roads, a cut-off light design was important to me.
    However since (for me) the most important property of a light is the light distribution (to my taste), i don't care so much about weight or self-contained batteries. Wether a bike light (incl batteries) weighs 100 or 450 grams, it's still below 1% of the average male bikers weight. Of course the light must have a suitable mounting device for the bike, which stops the lamp from moving during riding.

    As a self contained road bike light the B&M Ixon Space (sphere measured 500 lm, data from a bike magazin) is a proper alternative as well (have tested it), however i don't know how how available that lamp is outside europe and the usa. Internet shops however should ship anywhere. Another alternative would be the Lumintop B01, as it has a better light design (with respect to cut-off, due to LED position and useage of a reflector) than the acebeam, however only delivering 450 lm as constant output, but this could be for many situations enough. (Again i have my informations only from only pictures available online)

    For my liking the BK10 wastes way too much light in front of the bike. One could reduce this effect by adjusting the beam higher but then one countermands the cut-off design. Therefore i like my Outbound Road edition much more, at least most of the light goes into the distance. The Fenix BC35R seems like a solid lamp, but since i hadn't seen enough convincing beam shots or videos at the time when i bought my light, i looked somewhere else. Should i ever encounter someone with that lamp, i am gonna stop that person to have a look on it.

    Should someone sent my a BC35R, a BK10 and B01, i am gonna test them, but most probably i'll stick to my lights that i already have.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    As a self contained road bike light the B&M Ixon Space (sphere measured 500 lm, data from a bike magazin) is a proper alternative as well (have tested it),
    50 grams more weight and 3x lower Runtime you call a alternative?

    The BK10 give at ~ 400 Lumen 7 Hours Runtime.
    The Space at near same Lumens 2 Hours.

    The Space Consumes ~8 Watts for ~500 Lumens
    The BK10 Consumes ~2 Watt for 400 Lumen.

    I have to carry with me 3x Ixon Space to replace 1xBK10.
    That says 750 gram to carry with me.

    If the Space run empty after 2 Hour,......... 5 Hours charge time .......i have no light......
    The BK10 have about he option to change battery with a handle infinity Runtime.

    I have measured the Space for 2 days befor i give it back to the Shop where i buy it.

    i measured ~480 Lumens in the first 30 secounds so 500 Lumen will be ok.

    but the Light have no constant current driver, the light drops down over time with not warmed up Body, its any type of cheap chinese drivers.

    or the light have problems with Heat emission from the LED to the Body.
    but its not possible to disassemble it without loosing warranty, so i dont do it complete, to check all details.

    That i will not call a Alternative.

    On Aliexpress you will find alot 20$ Street lights what perform at same or better Level then the Space on a lower product weight.

    Thats the Place of the Space.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    The BK10 give at ~ 400 Lumen 7 Hours Runtime ~2 Watt for 400 Lumen.
    The Space at near same Lumens 2 Hours and consumes ~8 Watts for ~500 Lumens
    400 lm at 2W would be an efficiency of 200 lm/W. Since you argued in the hangover thread that datasheets claims are never reached in reality, could you explain then why the BK10 with an XHP35HI overperforms in reality the datasheet? Remember both LEDs (and datasheets) are from the same manufacturer...

    for all other users who are accessible to arguments:
    The highest binning of the XHP35 HI is rated at max 139 lm/W at binning conditions. Since the lamp is driven at 2W below binning conditions, we assume the lamp and the junction temperature is cooler, which gives us roughly 5% performance increase (data sheet XHP35 HI p15). If we take the best binning for 6000 K and 70 CRI one gets 550 lm @350 mA and 11.3V (4W). If we take the lowest binning from the datasheet (which is more realistic for the acebeam) we get 475 lm @350 mA/11.3V (current vs voltage see datasheet page 16). Now at roughly 2W the XHP gives according to datasheet 55% of the output at binning conditions (see p16 of the datasheet). If we multiply all these numbers we end up with
    550 *1.05*0.55 = 318 Lm (for the unrealistic highest binning)
    475 *1.05*0.55 = 274 lm (for a lower binning)

    So at 2 W the acebeam can deliver max 274-318 lm and this does not consider the optics (which results in lumen loss as you wrote in the hangover thread, let's assume a loss of 20%). So most probably the Acebeam BK10 delivers at 2W around 220-250 lm output after the lens, which is roughly half of the Ixon space at full power. The space at 250 lm needs probably 3-3.5W, which more than doubles the rountime compared to the highest mode.


    Quote Originally Posted by lostplaces View Post
    50 grams more weight and 3x lower Runtime you call a alternative?
    I have to carry with me 3x Ixon Space to replace 1xBK10.
    That says 750 gram to carry with me.
    If the Space run empty after 2 Hour,......... 5 Hours charge time .......i have no light...... The BK10 have about he option to change battery with a handle infinity Runtime.
    .
    Probably less than 2% of all bikers ride their bikes at night longer than 2 hours in one piece. Therefore you do not need 3 Ixon spaces, that's a complete unreasonable argument. So charging after 2 hours biking time is not a issue for 99% of all bikers. Also electricity is available everywhere and at any time in modern (first) world, recharging a battery is also not an issue at all, since the next night (or morning in winter) is more than 5 hours away. And a Space operated at 250 lm gives 4 hrs runtime, which is enough for 99.5% of all bikers in one night.

    It's ok if its relevant for you and it's ok if you like the acebeam, you may buy and like whatever you wish, but stop giving complete bullshit arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    400 lm at 2W would be an efficiency of 200 lm/W. .....

    for all other users who are accessible to arguments:
    The highest binning of the XHP35 HI is rated at max 139 lm/W at binning conditions.
    You know what says Real World measure?
    i See no.

    Here 3 Years ago an old E2 bin.
    That is made to get references.

    To Reach with 2 Watt or better for you 2,2 Watt 400 Lumen out of the Front says me the BK10 have a fantastic eff in medium mode.

    to Reach with 8 Watt 1060 lumens ot of the front still looks good.

    The exactly bin from the BK10 i dont know, but if i take the old E2 so its looks all good.

    for an E4 bin the performance will be only ok , not so good.

    If Acebeam have Access to higher bins the Performance will be bad.

    So i only take an old bin as reference to be fair.

    Fast checking stuff what you have at home is very easy:
    1. mesaure Amp and Volt on the Battery side.

    On the BK10 ist easy coz access to Battery.

    0,61 Amps Load have 3,73 Volts under Load so 3,73x0,61=2,2 Wats of Power the Light uses.
    if i put now the Light into a lightsphere i get 400 Lumens readet.

    so i have 2 Statts measured by myself, 2,2 Watt vs 400 Lumen Output.
    if i check now a table i see the Performance looks good, not much looses in the Driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    datasheets claims are never reached
    thats why you get alot of real Performance tabels of many LEDs from Users created in BLF.

    Feel free to check it out, BLF is for everyone.
    there are many companys what create Lights to active and create with this community alot of Lights.
    you get help in Driverdesign, Programming, measure parts.......anythink you need.

    They will help you to create a Cheap DIY lightsphere to check for yourself stuff.
    IF you have no money a cheap DIY lightphere cost you ~30$ so not a big problem to make that.


    Here you get the table of the LED used in the Fenix BC35R or my Zebralight helmet light.
    Last edited by herbs; 08-26-2019 at 10:33 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    They will help you to create a Cheap DIY lightsphere to check for yourself stuff.
    IF you have no money a cheap DIY lightphere cost you ~30$ so not a big problem to make that.
    If i see a documentation where a cheap DIY lightsphere was made and then verified with a (NIST) standard reference to see the deviations and offset, i might be convinced.
    Having worked in science for a few years i have enough understanding of measurements that i fairly can state that a cheaph DIY lightsphere will most probably have a significant offset and deviations from the "true" value. i only trust these numbers with an error of 25-30% and would assume an offset between 40-100 lm.
    --> A trustful and highly accurate measurement needs expensive equipment. It cannot be done with DIY stuff or cheaper stuff (unless you are lucky, but without measuring a calibrated light source (expensiv, you won't find out)

    (at the MTB News forum there is a thread were a guy working at university measured lights with a calibrated expensive sphere, these are trustful numbers. He did this to countermand the bullshit lumen numbers of many manufacturers, amongst them Lupine at that time (7-10 years ago))

    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    You know what says Real World measure?
    i See no.
    Here 3 Years ago an old E2 bin.
    That is made to get references.
    Why would Cree, who have the proper expensive equipment, rate their LEDs lower than they actually perform? So i'd say datasheet values are the best ones you can obtain with an LED.

    Anyway, it is a useful link with a solid made measurement. Thanks for the link! However since i don't know what sphere the guy used and whether it was calibrated, i take the values with a grain of salt.

    But as they write there in BLF:
    1) measurement done with very active cooling (TJ 25C) --> does not apply to acebeam BK10
    2) one of the two e2 bins performed only as an D4 bin(550 -590 lm)
    3) seems that e2 bins are not available in bigger quantities, so this seems unrealistic to be incoporated in the BK10. (These E Bins are still not listed in the main section of the data sheet, and the data sheet was last updated Nov 2018). But we then can probably assume a D4 bin.


    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    0,61 Amps Load have 3,73 Volts under Load so 3,73x0,61=2,2 Wats of Power the Light uses.
    if i put now the Light into a lightsphere i get 400 Lumens readet.
    ...
    so i have 2 Statts measured by myself, 2,2 Watt vs 400 Lumen Output.
    Now if we assume an E2 bin is in the lamp, 400 lm output after optics is not possible:
    E2 binning is rated at 590-635 lm (min-max) acc to data seet (hidden there on p20). If we do the same calculation as before we get at 2W
    a) before optics: 340 to 366 lm
    b) After optics: 270 to 290 lm

    Regarding the accuracy of your measurement values, see my arguments above. Now if we assume that your sphere has the above stated uncertainities and offset, you could measure 400 lms, albeit the true value is lower. There is a nice german idiom: Wer misst, misst Mist. (Roughly translates to: If you measure, you measure manure). And unfortunately that is very true idiom, which any scientist will confirm, unless you are pretty careful.

    The Acebeam has advantages like it's form and size, and it's ability to quickly change the battery in the field. If that is important for the user, it's a reason to buy it. But it's not the miraculous lamp as you describe it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    If i see a documentation where a cheap DIY lightsphere was made and then verified with a (NIST) standard reference to see the deviations and offset, i might be convinced.
    There 3 different types of cheap to made Lightspheres for your home use.
    If you calibrate it right you will get ~90%+Acc from a 20000$ sphere.

    Thats more then enough to check for yourself or others Products.

    And coz you never measure whatever what is the point of your talk?
    i checked the BK10 if it is in the Promised ANSI FL1 Rating and it is some % over it.
    So good for users.

    You sayed the BK10 is no light for you and thats ok.

    i give only some Product measurments here, what i do with anythink what i buy.

    If your Lightsphere have a better Acc then my, show it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    There 3 different types of cheap to made Lightspheres for your home use.
    If you calibrate it right you will get ~90%+Acc from a 20000$ sphere.
    Where is your calibration measurement/curve for your sphere (measured lumens vs calibrated supplied lumens?) You still evade to provide information on your calibration source, where you obtained it and whether the calibration of the light was still valid. Without this information, your provided measurements have to be treated with care.
    You only state one could reach ~90 accuracy of a professional sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    And coz you never measure whatever what is the point of your talk?
    What weak and unreasonable argument.... Just because i haven't measured lumens it doesn't mean i lack the knowledge of understanding the general concept of measurements, accuracy and calibration...

    What is the point of your measurements and talk if you don't prove that your numbers are accurate or state the accuracy level?

    I find it disturbing that you think you are the best expert in the field, and even more disturbing that you never heard of the concept of knowledge transfer....

    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    i give only some Product measurments here, what i do with anythink what i buy.
    The issue is that you claim your measurements show the absolut "true" numbers, while all other numbers provided by other people are wrong. And exactly that is my point of critism. And as long as you do this, you gonna get critisized.

    Btw, there are still some question from me, which you could answer, i. e.: Why would cree provide much lower lumen numbers for their products than achivable in reality?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    You still evade to provide information on your calibration source,


    Ok,

    1. You need an Light source from that you 100% know the exact Lumen output for calibration!
    2. And it must be a 100% exactly regulatet Output without any movements.

    Thats most importend part!

    I use a 5 Year old zebralight for that job most times.
    Its here only job in here life.

    If you have more than one Light from that you have the 100% lumen Output values you can to it more exactly.
    or if your first measurement looks wrong you can check it with reference light number two.

    you get with that a Light Multiplier what you use in future for Lumen measurments on this Lightsphere.

    On youtube some BLF members make videos for the first quick build of a lightsphere, feel free to watch it.

    My 3 Lights whats able to calibrate any Lightsphere not will help you, i am 100% sure you not own one of them.

    and pls BK10 here only.
    Its not a post about biking_tg do his first lightsphere expiriments.

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    You only state one could reach ~90 accuracy of a professional sphere.
    no i write 90%+.
    That means from 90-100%

    If you have done it and know some problems with Light sources you optimize your doing by yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Why would cree provide much lower lumen numbers for their products than achivable in reality?
    Cree does nothing other then any other LED Producer.
    I think they design an LED on a paper theoretically and make an imaginary paper for that.

    Near all LEDs have nothing to do with this imaginary paper.
    Thats why only measurments shows me what i Really have.

    Some LEDs far over paper stuff some LEDs far below paper stuff.
    Thats the fun on it, and i can not explain it why they to it so.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    Ok,
    1. You need an Light source from that you 100% know the exact Lumen output for calibration!
    2. And it must be a 100% exactly regulatet Output without any movements.
    ....
    I use a 5 Year old zebralight for that job most times.
    Its here only job in here life.
    ...
    My 3 Lights whats able to calibrate any Lightsphere not will help you, i am 100% sure you not own one of them.
    ...
    I did not ask to explain what a calibration source is, i was well aware of the concept... Well, at least you made my day, had great fun reading this! You just proved that you do not understand the idea behind a proper, trustworthy calibration source... And we know now why to accept your values only with a certain caution.

    With some commercial flashlights as calibration source your measurements are most probably done with at least 20% error compared to the "true" value. Even if you used 3 three commercial flashlights. Your values can only be referenced to the flashlights you used as calibration source, but cannot be considered "true" lumen numbers. A proper calibration source costs a few hundred dollars and is checked against NIST standards before it is sold and is something different than some flashlight..
    Of course, no one needs a professional calibration of his sphere if it's used for leisure, but then one shouldn't be so adamant that the measured values represent "true" lumen numbers without error...

    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    On youtube some BLF members make videos for the first quick build of a lightsphere, feel free to watch it.
    ...
    Its not a post about biking_tg do his first lightsphere
    No, it's should be about explaining herbs what the concept of a proper, calibrated measurement means. But since there are enough books on this topic, we don't need to do this. You just need to read one...

    Thanks for the hint with the video, i am gonna watch this at some point to check how reliable and trustworthy that is.


    So let's get back to the Acebeam BK10 and see what other users think of this light, it doesn't seem to be much in use so far.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post

    With some commercial flashlights as calibration source your measurements are most probably done with at least 20% error compared to the "true" value.
    20% error


    Quote Originally Posted by biking_tg View Post
    Even if you used 3 three commercial flashlights. Your values can only be referenced to the flashlights you used as calibration source, but cannot be considered "true" lumen numbers.
    you understand it wrong.

    If you only own 1 Light scoure from that you know 100% the Lumens and you use it for calibrate your first Lightsphere.

    You will not know the Acc of your sphere for other beam types.

    If i take now another light source with other beam profile and check what i get now.
    and if it not match light source 1, i have a geometric light deflektion problem on my sphere, and about that i can optimize or change it complete.


    My actual Lightsphere for example give me on all 3 Light sources the same multipliere, so i have in total calculated near ~96% Acc.

    If u have more light scources with a 100% known Lumen output you get higher Acc coz on that way its possible to find geometric or other construction problems on a DIY and fix it.

    On my first DIY lightsphere some years ago i have done the Wrong to only use 1 source, what endet in low Accs.

    For first trys simple make the Ball design, with one reference light source.
    or pocket sized Ball.
    not Pipe designs.


    If you want to talk about lightspheres, designs of them, Accs of them, and anythink other go into BLF there are hundrets of people what make them and give you all infos you will get!!!!

    good luck with your first sphere.

    here is a Discussion for the BK10!

  26. #26
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    There is a review on the BK10 from a japanese blog (translated to english)

    Quote Originally Posted by herbs View Post
    20% error
    ....
    If you only own 1 Light scoure from that you know 100% the Lumens and you use it for calibrate your first Lightsphere.
    ...
    You will not know the Acc of your sphere for other beam types.
    ...
    My actual Lightsphere for example give me on all 3 Light sources the same multipliere, so i have in total calculated near ~96% Acc.
    ...
    If u have more light scources with a 100% known Lumen output you get higher Acc coz on that way its possible to find geometric or other construction problems on a DIY and fix it.
    I am sorry to say this, but you still missunderstand the concept of a proper calibration source. Furthermore a proper professional sphere can work with any beam type.

    Since you obviously think someone in the BLF has more knowledge than me, check this Node/Thread, read the first Post there, at the bottom the issue with commercial flashlights is explained. It states exaktly the same things that i stated.
    If you want to verify your sphere, you can even get a relatively trustworthy calibration source from this user for 64 EUR, which is dirt cheap for that purpose. Once you have calibrated your sphere with this light, re-measure your lights again. But if you want to calculate lm/W values, don't forget to use a suitable device for measuring current and voltage. Suitable means it should have less than 5% uncertainity on the measured values and have no 0 point offset

    This is about the BK10, but you tend to state wrong lumen numbers and efficiencies on the LED used in this lamp

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