18650 Reliability??- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20

    18650 Reliability??

    I bought 2 Panasonic 3100 mah batteries "Made in Japan".
    After a couple of cycles 1 would not recharge. Contacted the seller and he sent a replacement. After about 6 cycles one of them will not recharge. Waiting for reply from seller who advertised "500 cycles".

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,810
    Don't know what you've got, but are they with protection circuit? Some picture might help to. Which is the seller?
    Panasonics are one of the best if not the best cells, so something wierd is going with yours.

    Also what charger do you use?

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    Brand New "2" Panasonic NCR18650A 3.7V 3100mah Li-on Battery, Made in Japan

    Specifications:

    Nominal voltage 3.6-3.7V
    Lowest permitted discharge voltage - 2.5 V
    Cycle life - 500 cycles
    Recommended charge current - .9A (.3C)
    Max charging rate - 3.1 Amps (1C)
    Max working discharge current - 6.2A
    Max discharge current - 8.5A
    Do not short circuit - High current will be discharged
    Diameter: 18.4 mm
    Height: 69.7 mm

    Don't all Panasonics Made in Japan have protection ciricuits?

    Seller is Saftymind on EBay.

    My charger is rated 1200mah @3.6v, well within Specs.

    Photo Brand New "2" Panasonic 18650 NCR18650A 3 7V 3100mAh Li on Battery Japan Made | eBay

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    Also bought a couple of low buck 18650's off Ebay. Photo did not show the brand. When they arrived, they were (don't waste your money on this brand) Ultrasonics. After 1 use, 1 battery would not recharge. Contacted seller, awaiting promised refund.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    I would suggest placing a piece of masking tape on the side of any 18650 and making a mark on the tape for each recharge. That way, if they should fail prematurely, contact the seller with the number of recharges.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    747
    Not an electonics geek but from what I understand the button tops are "protected" but the flat tops are not, and the protection is against short circuiting, not overcharge or over-discharge. Perhaps someone else here can verify this?

    47mph, which charger are you using in particular? Just curious, because I recently purchased an XTAR VC4, which can supposedly rescue overly-discharged cells. Haven't had a chance to test this feature out yet because all my Panasonics still seem to be okay. But if you're in the States, you can PM me for my address and mail me the non-charging battery along with a SASE, and I'll give it a go for you.

    "2. 0V activation function which rescues your overly discharged batteries when in most cases the batteries must be discarded. With our chargers you can bring them back to life." Thought they had a video on the site demonstrating this but can't find it right now. Well here's one of the VC2 performing that task: http://youtu.be/6ZyIWhtSLbw

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,698
    Any possibility that the "Panasonic" cells are counterfeit? I do not recall the website, but there was a place in China that makes the shrinkwrap for 18650's and you could have them print anything on them you wanted.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    The batteries are listed as having a "Lowest permitted discharge voltage - 2.5 V". Is not that a protection circuit?

    Also, the batteries were listed as "Made in Japan" in the title and in the description. The seller has a 5 star rating.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by 47mph View Post
    The batteries are listed as having a "Lowest permitted discharge voltage - 2.5 V". Is not that a protection circuit?
    Pretty sure that just means that the batteries cannot be drained below 2.5V without dying, not that there is any mechanism to prevent them from doing so. Most lamps have their own cut-off point built in somewhere above that level but if one of your batteries can no longer be recharged then like ledoman said something weird is going on somewhere. Unless your batteries are fake but that doesn't seem too likely if most of them perform as advertised. Still, who knows.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    829
    Quote Originally Posted by 47mph View Post
    Don't all Panasonics Made in Japan have protection ciricuits?
    No. Not even single one.

    My charger is rated 1200mah @3.6v, well within Specs.
    Based on that statement, I'd say it's either wrong one, or there's mistype somewhere. Could you post the picture of charger's label, or link to its manufacturer/seller?

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,810
    Yes, the charger is suspicious by those data. Also the contacts on the charger might be bad or not suitable for unprotected cells. Button top cells might be more suitable.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    829
    Second question is, what namely device is used with these cells? For example, putting unprotected cell into, e.g., incandescent torch (does anyone remember them? ) will technically allow complete discharge, thus killing it.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    The tail light is a 1200Lm Lumens CREE XM-L T6 LED Bicycle Light


    And the headlight is a SolarStorm2.


    And here's my 2 cell battery rig


    Tail light gets used a lot, headlight, rarely.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    Here's the rating on my charger:


    So, if the battery specs are
    "Recommended charge current - .9A (.3C)
    Max charging rate - 3.1 Amps (1C)"

    Why is the charger the wrong one?
    .9A < 1.2A < 3.1A

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    829
    Quote Originally Posted by 47mph View Post
    Why is the charger the wrong one?
    .9A < 1.2A < 3.1A
    It's correct one. You've just used "mAh" instead of "mA" previously, so I had to verify.

    Real charge current of that charger is about 400 mA, so it will charge very slowly, and don't terminate when full - so, monitoring the time is recommended. BTW, it's worth to check whether its voltage switch is in correct position, and preferably - measure actual voltage w/o cell.

    Without exact measurements, it's hard to determine the roots of problem, but in general, if I'm faced with some issue in "premium Japanese cells + cheap Chinese charger" system, I'd suspect the latter...

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    The charger has an LED that changes from red when charging to green when fully charged.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    829
    That's good.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,810
    I hope you have switch in the 4.2V position. Here is brief review of that charger:
    Huangao All in one Charger [ HG-1210W ]

  19. #19
    RAKC
    Reputation: tigris99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,147
    ok that set up is just scary! knowing what lithium ion cells can do if something goes wrong..... omg.....

    And also unless I missed a detail about the set up, there is nothing protecting the cells from over discharge.

    then reading the info on the charger....EEK over charging is possible!!!! Thats a burnt down house waiting to happen.

    LI-Ion cells are not something to throw together like a set of rechargable AAs or a NiCad battery pack. LiIons require specific use, proper set up, and proper use. Your lucky you used panasonics and only killed them, didnt detonate them. But they are low amp output cells (thank god).

    If your going to use a set up like that, BUY PROTECTED CELLS. THen charger issues wont matter, you wont kill cells on that set up cause they will cut off power before being damaged.

    Not trying to sound like some doom and gloom, but when guys that know these thing well relate a serious cell failure to that of the chernobal distaster (worst nuclear disaster in history, in russia) should give you some idea of how volatile LiIon batteries are.

  20. #20

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    BOGUS ALERT??

    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    ...If your going to use a set up like that, BUY PROTECTED CELLS. ....
    Don't all Panasonics Made in Japan have protection circuits?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    No. Not even single one.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    747
    4pcs Protected Panasonic NCR18650BE 18650 3200mAh Rechargeable Battery with PCB | eBay

    18650 Reliability??-original-battery-3-7v-3200mah-ncr18650be-18650-ncr-li-ion-rechargeable-cell-pcb-panasonic-18.jpg

    Apparently all Li-Ions offered for sale in the USA must come with [resettable] protection against overheating and over-amping, as well as a one-time pressure release valve; protection against overcharging/over-discharging is available on cells with the additional PCB. Though I must say that the protected cells offered above do look suspiciously after-market, as the ribbon is not concealed under the wrap. Think the SoShine batteries illustrated in the article I linked to earlier (Anatomy of a Battery) were actually re-wrapped Japanese Panasonics. Finished battery said Made in China.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    829
    Quote Originally Posted by andychrist View Post
    Though I must say that the protected cells offered above do look suspiciously after-market, as the ribbon is not concealed under the wrap.
    Using transparent secondary wrap when adding protection PCB is pretty much standard now, specifically to avoid any questions about cell inside. And all of them are "after-market" products...

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: garrybunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,745
    Panasonic does not make protected cells. After-market companies add protection circuits (this is why you hear of Panasonic cells branded and sold as "orbtronic, EVVA, KeepPower, etc. . .". And no Andy, Li-Ions do NOT require protection circuits to be sold in the US, numerous US sellers sell unprotected cells (like Mountain Electronics).

    Cells with protection circuits should be identifiable by the "groove/indentation" that appears at the negative end. Very good information with pictures on HKJ's website: The Anatomy of a Protected Battery . In rare instances the protection circuit is on the top of the cell as in these Protected Sanyo's from DX.

    Please OP, get a good reliable 18650 charger.

    -Garry

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: garrybunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,745
    Want to make your own Ultrafire "4,200mAh" 18650's out of recycled Laptop cells? Here you go: https://www.fasttech.com/products/1425/10012801/2157402 .

    Want to make your own Samsung 18650 26F's? Here, you'll need these: https://www.fasttech.com/products/14...inkable-tubing .

    -Garry

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    And no Andy, Li-Ions do NOT require protection circuits to be sold in the US, numerous US sellers sell unprotected cells...

    -Garry
    Guess I wasn't clear, didn't say protection circuits were required for sale, just that they were available as an addition (in so-called "Protected" cells.) But the other two measures of protection described in Anatomy of Protected Battery (which I myself cited twice above) are apparantly mandatory: over-heat/over-circuit, and pressure relief (valve.) You can actually see the three vents for the later on the positive end of the flat-top, "non-protected" Panasonics if you look real close.

    18650 Reliability??-image.jpg

    Agree, don't risk flakey chargers!!!

  27. #27
    RAKC
    Reputation: tigris99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,147
    Quote Originally Posted by 47mph View Post
    BOGUS ALERT??







    Don't all Panasonics Made in Japan have protection circuits?

    Nothing bogus about this. You need to do your homework about 18650 liion cells. You DIDNT BUY PROTECTED CELLS. I have 16 Panasonic cells ive bought brand new over the last couple months, NOT A SINGLE ONE IS PROTECTED. ALL MADE IN JAPAN. But I have battery cases that have protection circuits built it. As most here do.

    For protected batteries, I bought keeppower 3400mah which are Panasonics with an extra part and little button style connector on top.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    No. Not even single one....
    Then this seller's description must be bogus. He's just charging more for Panasonic's w a stripe on the side:

    Brand New "2" Panasonic 18650 NCR18650A 3 7V 3100mAh Battery Protected w PCB | eBay



  29. #29
    RAKC
    Reputation: tigris99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,147
    Those r protected, not bogus. But if its not a US seller be careful of counterfit. Ive seen them before though. Not assembled by Panasonic iirc, they are contracted out to have the pcbs added but maintain Panasonic labeling. But for what u do u dont need Panasonics, Sanyo or otherwise will work too. Like u can get keeppower Sanyo 2600mah cell for $17 a pair on amazon.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,810
    So many posts and we still don't know actual voltages of the cells. 47, you should measure it with multimeter (DMM). Then we can talk. Also you didn't answer on question about switch position on your charger.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    20
    To me the Switch position question was kinda like asking do you have it plugged in?

  32. #32
    RAKC
    Reputation: tigris99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,147
    Not really if the charger has 2 different settings, wrong setting you can cause all kinds of problems. Legitimate question especially when this is obviously your first attempt at dealing with 18650 cells and did so without proper research.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,810
    Yes, and we still don't know atwhat position it is and what are actual voltages of the cells. So 47, if you want to help you, please provide those info. We don't know what you think or do, we only know what you wrote.

Similar Threads

  1. Shimano hub reliability
    By tuvok in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-19-2013, 06:45 PM
  2. Marzocchi 55 RC3 Ti - reliability?
    By manamana in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-11-2012, 06:52 PM
  3. GT Ti BB reliability?
    By Vader in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-05-2012, 09:17 PM
  4. Alfine reliability
    By TimT in forum Internal Gear Hubs
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-04-2012, 04:46 PM
  5. I9 hub reliability ?
    By keen in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-29-2011, 11:46 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.