are we making any progress really- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    are we making any progress really

    I have just built a light for someone and it is a blast from the past and it got me thinking are we really going forward or just mixing things up .

    It is a standard build that a lot of the diy brigade have done
    a quad R2 XRE with cute narrow optic powered with a bflex sort of a golden oldie

    so in view of the DX light that is selling in its millions I have done a head to head beam shot comparison ,

    first is the DX green meanie.



    then the quad R2



    In my humble opinion this bike light still is the one to measure all lights against it is a real sweet little devil simple to build and it just works

    Edit here is the Ledil Iris on a K bin mce


    And a shot of a P7 bike light with unknown bin

    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 06-29-2009 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    indeed. I'm gonna build a few of those with carclo 20mm optics to exhaust the rest of my R2 supply before moving onto big things. don't see how you could go wrong with them honestly. simple, bright, and in my case, easily tuneable as well.

  3. #3
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    The more I see/read of the DX light, the less I like it. It really is just a host that you can build up. I would not trust it or it's battery unless it was just a city ride.

    I agree that there does not seem to be any super good reason to think that the XR-E stuff is obsolete. They can be driven at an amp and are very well supported by different optics/reflectors and drivers. Off the stars they can even be soldered by mortals. They are mature, but more than adequate for most folks (including myself, except I am OK with simple Q5's ). IMHO, P7 and MC-E lights mean bigger batteries or shorter runtimes, while 3-4 x Q5/R2 XR-E are just about perfect for XC riding (ignoring for a moment that there are XP-E's out there).

  4. #4
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    Selling past the close

    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I have just built a light for someone and it is a blast from the past and it got me thinking are we really going forward or just mixing things up .

    It is a standard build that a lot of the diy brigade have done
    a quad R2 XRE with cute narrow optic powered with a bflex sort of a golden oldie

    (snip)
    In my humble opinion this bike light still is the one to measure all lights against it is a real sweet little devil simple to build and it just works
    Now I want a Cute narrow optic instead of the medium I've got.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  5. #5
    Rolling
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    I guess it depends on whether a light is a tool or a means in itself.

  6. #6
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    I have just built a light for someone and it is a blast from the past and it got me thinking are we really going forward or just mixing things up .
    No real progress until the XP-G's hit later this year. 37% increase in output for the same voltage, then the troutie 6 x XPE goes from a mere 900-1200 lumens to a blasting league of its own at nearly 2100 lumens in an itty bitty package.

    Now that will be progress.
    I know a lot about cars. I can look at a car's headlights and tell you exactly which way it's coming.
    Mitch Hedberg

  7. #7
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    Is there anything brighter than an R2? I'm curious if the IRIS with an MCE would be as good as the quad XR-E. Interesting that the DX light isn't as good though. But I'm stumped trying to figure out why it should be better than 4 XR-E.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen
    Is there anything brighter than an R2? I'm curious if the IRIS with an MCE would be as good as the quad XR-E. Interesting that the DX light isn't as good though. But I'm stumped trying to figure out why it should be better than 4 XR-E.
    I think the DX light can't hold up against an quad XR-E R2 setup becaus the C-Bin P7 with this green tint (looks not so bright) and the fact that it is only driven with 2.4A!

    It would be nict to see a modded DX light with an D-Pin WC P7 and an modded driver which gives 2.8A or even more!!
    (to do this successfully i suppose the inner heatsink should also be optimized)

  9. #9
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    Lets be fair though, 4 x R2 thats @900lumens with fancy optics and your likely drawing 4A's not 2.4A's isn't really fair.

    My C-Bin P7 is blue and all the others I've seen to, sure it isn't a Green J-Bin was it ??

    That being said, I'll likely swap out my @700Lumen MC-E M-Bin torch ( with improved placement to remove the hole ) with 2 x XP-G's, similar lumens, tighter spot, better throw and hopefully not as yellow!! ( Or run 1 along side like I do my Blue Q5 to raise the temperature abit when it's muddy )

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd
    Lets be fair though, 4 x R2 thats @900lumens with fancy optics and your likely drawing 4A's not 2.4A's isn't really fair. )

    Whats not fair! the fact that the DX light is claiming 900 lumens is not fair

    But the thread was not meant as a diss the dx it was just to see how far lights had progressed since the R2 XRE and cute optic came out .
    and if anything we have gone backwards on a die for die basis
    but hopefully this will alter with the XPG

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    hopefully this will alter with the XPG
    will the XP-G and the XP-E be interchangeable?
    I mean: If i have an existing XP-E light can i change it to the XP-G Leds without changing the optics?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1
    will the XP-G and the XP-E be interchangeable?
    I mean: If i have an existing XP-E light can i change it to the XP-G Leds without changing the optics?

    I certainly hope so , my understanding is it is in the XPe package
    but not seen any confirmation it will be useable with the existing optics

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I certainly hope so , my understanding is it is in the XPe package
    but not seen any confirmation it will be useable with the existing optics
    If the XP-G package is the same size it should at least fit the XP-E optics. Not the die is twice the area so the focusing will likely not be as tight.

    What will make a big difference is if the XP-G can be over driven. More light in a smaller space always helps.

  14. #14
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    we didn't see 4 xp-e, so how can we compare

    So far, 4 XR-E wins, especially since the only decent MCE optics seem to make the MCE package just as large.

  15. #15
    I spelled Knievel wrong
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    IF one cares about color rendition and quality of light then I think things have progressed with the availability of higher bin neutral-white LEDs, but most people seem to be satisfied with the standard lifeless cold-white tints. The fact that the DX light is available at such a low price is a sure sign of progress to me, $$$-to-lumen wise anyways.

  16. #16
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    Gone are the days, of Q1 coming out, then Q2 offering a 10% improvement months later so on and so forth, 18months without a serious improvement over the single led R2 with a few months to go

    Which means we are either near the limits or awaiting a technology leap, or there just isn't a reason to keep developing higher ( ie money for them )

    Shame

  17. #17
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    I'm pretty sure there are good reasons to keep increasing the output. Home lighting for one. Not sure what they have to do to replace light bulbs, but that would be a big boost in sales.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd
    Gone are the days, of Q1 coming out, then Q2 offering a 10% improvement months later so on and so forth, 18months without a serious improvement over the single led R2 with a few months to go

    Which means we are either near the limits or awaiting a technology leap, or there just isn't a reason to keep developing higher ( ie money for them )

    Shame
    Based on the slowness of of the increases Cree may be up against a wall. The efficiency of the underlying LED is somewhere between 15 and 20%. That is amazing. Basically one of of five or six electrons through the device generates a photon that is not absorbed. That is pretty good.

    They have been making progress. Based on a thread over at CPF it appears that the XR-E chip ha been upgraded to a smaller .9mm die. Same light smaller die. My guess is that die is a stepping stone to the XP-G die. Instead of making a R3 it appears that they made a cheaper LED. Well at least cheaper for them.

  19. #19
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    Thinking about it like that Vroom, I guess getting to 50% efficency is very very unlikely this century

    First 1watt Super LED's where likely 5% efficency ofcourse so huge steps made, just want that push to 30% really.

  20. #20
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    Thinking about it like that Vroom, I guess getting to 50% efficency is very very unlikely this century

    First 1watt Super LED's where likely 5% efficency ofcourse so huge steps made, just want that push to 30% really.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I have just built a light for someone and it is a blast from the past and it got me thinking are we really going forward or just mixing things up .

    It is a standard build that a lot of the diy brigade have done
    a quad R2 XRE with cute narrow optic powered with a bflex sort of a golden oldie
    I gotta say this is by far my favorite optic so far.
    Was hoping for a smaller version for the XP-E, but its MR11 too.
    http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/Data...CUTE-3_ISF.pdf
    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut904

    Though maybe it fits the XP-G....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    Was hoping for a smaller version for the XP-E, but its MR11 too.
    Though maybe it fits the XP-G....

    Maybe these are what you are looking for??

    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut861

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1
    will the XP-G and the XP-E be interchangeable?
    I mean: If i have an existing XP-E light can i change it to the XP-G Leds without changing the optics?
    Yes they will be the same size, I recieved an email from Cutter Electronics today and you can swap a triple XP-E board with a triple XP-G board.

    Don't know about optics though. They only mentioned swapping the boards so I suspect that the optics could be the same.

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