Niterider Killer- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463

    Niterider Killer

    I see that NiteRider is coming out with a pro 1200 based on either an SSC P7 or a cree MCE. It looks a lot like my darkstar except heavier

    Here is the deal. I am going to be able to go head to head with them at a shine and tell, and I want to win.

    So here is the question, do I just up the current to the MCE's max of 700ma using a different driver or do I switch over to the R2 XP-E's using a quad optic.

    MCe's lenses are smaller 20mm as opposed to 25.4mm for the XPE quad.Beams are about the same.

    XPe's I do get about 50 more lumen's theoretical at the maximum drive current than MCE's. Would you even notice that difference? I doubt it.

    Want to keep it to 2 lenses or optics at most, and basically in the same form factor as the current Darkstar if thermally possible.

    Thanks for ideas or comments

    Go DIY!
    Last edited by zen bicycle; 06-15-2009 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Respectable ...but not impressive. I really do like the company though, and the fact they are upfront and honest about the actual lumens their lights make is pretty awesome, so will caveat with saying that they still make really nice stuff… now even better too.

    My lights blow them away still though. 800, 1000, and 1600 true trail lumens. …and I’m not alone in the DIY world. Thought your light was up there in that range w/2 MCEs?

    Zen, I’ll give you the secret. Good thermal management. That’s it. Once you can cool the LED really well, you can get away with a lot, let me tell you!!

    Check out the fins and bezel below, entire package is designed to optimally remove heat first and foremost. Kinda ugly, I’ll admit …but when the light are off …don’t matter what she looks like. Wait …what were we talking about?



    Below is in Deg F not C.


    Ya, anyway …can talk offline if you want. Can’t give you all the secrets though

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463
    my light is up in the 1400 lumen range out the front of the light, and could bump it up to 1550-1600. I just settled on that as a compromise on battery size and run time mainly. I have just always touted the latest and best technology available. I am now wondering since the latest MCE available is composed out of basically Q5 XPe dies if I should move on to the r2 XPe since they are the latest avaialble. My light will definitely compete with that don't get me wrong. I just want something that will make people's jaw drop like the difference between halogen and HID when it first came out.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Figured you were up there ...1400, what are your optical and thermal losses?

    My 1600 makes almost 2000 Lu before considering those losses. But I ahve to run 8 cells to get a 3 hr burn time at that power level.

    I would be worried about the heat if/when bumping up. As I'm sure you know, but maybe not aware of how drastic the affect is, but LED output on white LED's goes to the floor as die temp goes up. Sucks because temp goes way up even with just a little more drive current.

    Not trying to lecture or anything like that, so hopefully didn't hit that tone.

    For me halogen to LED was what you mentioned ...HID was always out of my price range. Not sure we will see that sort of obvious divide again in the near. At least not out of something that has a battery pack that fits in the palm of your hand. ~C


  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by zen bicycle
    ... I am now wondering since the latest MCE available is composed out of basically Q5 XPe dies if I should move on to the r2 XPe since they are the latest avaialble....
    Oh ya, and I'm not sure I would, especially if I wasn't running balls out for the lumen trophy. Unless the efficiency of the LED die is different (higher), you are still paying for that extra light in terms of watts. IE, drive voltage went up if lumen rating @ 350 changed but efficacy didn't. (however you spell that
    ~C

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Like this graph; but gets worse at higher drive current. Ok, gotta sign off for the rest of today ...back to work. ~C

    My next light may be a XPE So small to work with though!


  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463
    Well in this case I am running balls out for the lumen trophy based on what I want to do, This might be a one off build, but so be it, and how are you getting 1000 lumens out of something rated max for 750 or so lumens? without serious overdriving?Unless it is serious overdriving

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Like I said, thermal management

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: znomit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,982
    Remember NR quote out the front lumens so you'll need a triple or seriously overdriven double to be assured of a win. Optics will be important too.
    Driving a P7 at 5.5A can give 1k lm.

    But... I think we would all like to see a level playing field and see how a DIY dual MCE, driven within specs, stacks up against the NR.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    A level playing field! Who wants that!

    My 2C, A dual MCE will win.

    Ya I admire NR for doing that (using actual measured lumens), and have tried my best to do the same with my lights, as I account for measured die operating temps and actual measured optical loss (I can't afford to measure Lumens yet, and don't know anyone who would measure for me) to knock down my lumen figure. But, I wonder how it's hurt them (and will me) since most consumers don't understand that detail at all.

    Consumers trust what it written on a package. Bigger is ALWAYS better right?

    I think Zen wants to see more of a tramping than a neck to neck in any case. Break out the 4 MCE!

  11. #11
    Five is right out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,174
    How are you guys measuring lumen outputs? Are they paper/theoretical, or are you using some kind of meter? All I've tried using is a lux meter, and of course that's completely inadequate for lumen measurements. I'm wondering if there's yet another fancy tool that some of the DIY crowd are using.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463
    I have a dualMCE driven within specs and it will stack up well I think against it especially from a cost perspective. but SD is right I want to show what is possible not just what is available from the big guys.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by sdnative
    A level playing field! Who wants that!

    My 2C, A dual MCE will win.


    Consumers trust what it written on a package. Bigger is ALWAYS better right?

    I think Zen wants to see more of a tramping than a neck to neck in any case. Break out the 4 MCE!

    This is a tramping dont you guys go down into the older posts

    200 metres or 650 feet to the van






    and my normal place.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336
    Yeap, that's a serious beating. Even a few running head kicks and flying elbows thrown in there ...is that the quad?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463
    I remember that, but want to keep it in the same sort of weight/size division. Light head somewhere in the 80-150 gram range I think. Troutie, just ship that one over so I don't have to make one up just for this.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by sdnative
    Yeap, that's a serious beating. Even a few running head kicks and flying elbows thrown in there ...is that the quad?

    Yep that is the quad frankenlight I have made numerous lights but that is one of my favourites and is my bar light untill I make something dafter.
    you dont need a helmet light with it in fact you dont see a helmet light .

    Zen I dont think I ever weighed it complete with botched up bar mounts so had to go and do it



    I think it is time to do a MK2 version soon I am getting bored with these mini sissy lights
    and need to get stuck in to some real lights

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463
    Might just have to go for that since I found a source for MCE's at a much lower price now stateside.

    How is that wired 2s2p on series boards or what? I can't remember

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by zen bicycle
    Might just have to go for that since I found a source for MCE's at a much lower price now stateside.

    How is that wired 2s2p on series boards or what? I can't remember

    no boards and each MCE wired in parallel and then series


    using a hipflex


  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336

    Could be a good dirtbike light

    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Yep that is the quad frankenlight I have made numerous lights but that is one of my favourites and is my bar light untill I make something dafter. I think it is time to do a MK2 version soon I am getting bored with these mini sissy lights
    and need to get stuck in to some real lights
    Me like; would make a good dirtbike light too. ...and agree on the sissy lights comment (not that they aren't seriously bright though ) Been developing stuff for selling/marketing and have lost touch with the explorative side of creating 1 off's...as I'm sure you would agree, that's really more fun than manufacturing repeats.

    2p2s pushing the maxflex a little hard yea, isn't it 22V max? Why not all [email protected]? ...I will read the 'old' thread.

    ~C

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HuffyPuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    890
    Quote Originally Posted by zen bicycle
    I found a source for MCE's at a much lower price now stateside.
    Will you share it with the class?

    I promise, I will only buy a few

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sdnative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    336

    A better Lu Estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by womble
    How are you guys measuring lumen outputs? Are they paper/theoretical, or are you using some kind of meter? All I've tried using is a lux meter, and of course that's completely inadequate for lumen measurements. I'm wondering if there's yet another fancy tool that some of the DIY crowd are using.
    I have talked to engineers at most all the companies I get stuff from. They all have measured data, and released data based on statistics; so I work to understand all the relations between the components and the nuances of their statistics. Then make an Excel spreadsheet from hell (or heaven, depending on you vantage point), and look at all the design angles. I then collect as much data as possible to validate and hone my spreadsheets. Die temperature, voltage, and current (all) vs. time is what I can currently measure.

    To my understanding, due to lens issues etc, the ONLY way to measure lumens in with 'the black sphere'. Do a websearch. Lumens is too expensive for me to measure ...as of now that is. And I doubt NiteRider is going to let me borrow theirs

    Laters ~Chris

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.