Marvi Mod with MC-E M bin- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Marvi Mod with MC-E M bin

    A while ago I've ordered a pair of parallel wired M bin MC-E's and a pair of Fraen FRC Narrow reflectors to fit them into Nightpro housing that was laying around. After getting a lathe last week, I decided to give it a go. So i bought some 35mm Ali bar today and grabbed the tools. So that's how it went:

    Some human labor to get me warmed up:

    Than some fun with the new toy:

    First slug is ready, but still need another one

    The cheap DX driver fits pretty much inside of the groove:

    Instead of gluing the slug into the housing I decided to press fit it in with a little help of a smaller diameter slug and a vice:

    You can see some of the Ali coming off the slug and sticking to the walls of the housing:

    Adding some thermal grease, screwing down the star and wiring one side of the parallel pads:

    Connecting all four pads together:

    Front part of the light finished and closed:

    This part of soldering was a bit PITA due to short wires:

    All closed up and ready to shine:


    Time for some beamshots!
    WB: Daylight
    F: 4
    S: 5"
    Iso: 100

    Single MC-E @2A:


    Both MC-E @2A:


    Quad XPG R5 @1.3A:


    All of them together:


    Both MC-E's still run off an original Nightpro 7.2V NiMH battery pack.

  2. #2
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    Looking good there.....
    Nice use of your marwi housings.
    So you have a new lathe and extra aluminum...... Wonder what you will be doing with your free time.

  3. #3
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    Well, I'm still waiting for some goodies from cutter And I do have some extra Ali in stock

  4. #4
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    Nice builds!

  5. #5
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    Cool beans!
    Good to see anothr Marwi housing get recycled.

    Your slug idea is cool also.

    I have had a couple ideas rolling around for a while on a Marwi slug for the bullet shaped housings like yours.

    I was thinking that the first one would be like a thick coin that is only .125" deep/thick, and see how that goes.

    If that is too shallow, then try a bit deeper version with a scooped out rear section like yours has on the back.

    If the slug is in good contact with the inner walls of the housing, you don't really need a thick chunk of Ali.

    My fav idea is to press in a ring and then the slug bumps up against the ring and is screwed in place with tiny screws. Use some thermal paste for good heat transfer betwen the coin slug and the ring.
    The slug and guts could be installed and removed way easier, but it's a more complicated rig.

    Post some more pics if you do some more Marwi modding
    Is that Fraen reflector made of plastic?
    It looks like plastic on the Fraen web site

  6. #6
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    Thanks

    Had a chance to think over your beam shots.

    I have been thinking an XM-L as a low beam using a large reflector or lens in the Marwi body. Also wanted to do Al rather than Cu this time, and the fore and aft rings to hold a tight thinner disc (about 0.125", maybe a hair thicker) as EL34 says and Troutie thinks is adequate. Should be easier than all the thinning (No I am not Desi) I did on the pipe parts for the last two. My modded Marwis are water resistant enough for my application so far. YMMV.

    Thanks, again, and Happy New Year!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34
    Cool beans!
    Good to see anothr Marwi housing get recycled.

    Your slug idea is cool also.

    I have had a couple ideas rolling around for a while on a Marwi slug for the bullet shaped housings like yours.

    I was thinking that the first one would be like a thick coin that is only .125" deep/thick, and see how that goes.

    If that is too shallow, then try a bit deeper version with a scooped out rear section like yours has on the back.

    If the slug is in good contact with the inner walls of the housing, you don't really need a thick chunk of Ali.

    My fav idea is to press in a ring and then the slug bumps up against the ring and is screwed in place with tiny screws. Use some thermal paste for good heat transfer betwen the coin slug and the ring.
    The slug and guts could be installed and removed way easier, but it's a more complicated rig.

    Post some more pics if you do some more Marwi modding
    Is that Fraen reflector made of plastic?
    It looks like plastic on the Fraen web site

    Mine slug is 10,7mm thick and mostly hollow, otherwise there wouldn't be enough space for the driver. Wall thickness in about 2mm. The housing get's really hot after 10 min at 10 degC room temperature with no airflow. But had it out for a ride a couple of days a go and it was cool like the rest of my bike. Well it was about -7 degC. Anything thiner would not make enough heat transfer to the housing IMHO. Why going the ring and coin way and make another weak point in heat transfer, whey you can make a slug like mine with the same effort and costs, unless you're thinking of a piece of ali rod and piece of tube, that fit the dimension, but that would be very hard to find. So you're back to the lathe. I could make you some of those slugs if there'll be some interest, since you've got housings in stock, but that could take some time.

    The reflectors are Fraen FRC-N, plastic outside and ali inside, so they don't do any help at heat dissipation.

  8. #8
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    Hi, thanks for the info.

    I'm all set as far as making things like that.
    I have a lathe, a CNC machine and several other machines here.

    You may not have seen the heat sink I desingned and sell for the older bell shaped Marwi bodies.


    BTW, I pressed a flat .125 thick 6061 slug into a Marwi bullet shaped body and it works perfectly.
    .125" is quite thick actually.
    You don't need a huge thick slug to transfer heat, you need a heat pipe that moves the heat to the outer shell where the shell can dissipate it.

    A huge thick piece of Ali will hold heat too long and it will build up in intensity faster than it releases.
    Too thin (like tin foil) and it is not able to move the heat away from the source properly
    There is that thickness zone in between those two extremes that works perfectly.

    I find the same results as you do. My lights never get hot while riding in the real world.
    Even my triple P7 monster running 7.5 amps of current is cool to the touch while riding.
    Last edited by El34; 01-01-2011 at 05:09 AM.

  9. #9
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    Observations from two Marwi housings with 10+ W of XP-G and BFlex each:

    In one light I have a full length copper liner that acts as a heat pipe under most of the aluminum shell and a massive copper pill. Both the maximum temperature and the temperature differences along the body at room temperature were reduced with no air flow at room temperatures when compared to the simpler copper cap firewall version. The more massive copper sink does not make the light hotter, it just dampens temperature changes. The liner does even temperatures along the shell, but it was not worth the effort.

    The differences were small 1-2 * C. A small amount of air flow and both lights are the same. Or close enough for the real world.

    A ceiling fan draft is enough to lower the temps close enough as to be no issue.

    This tells me that you don't get the aluminum foil effect with the main part of the light body even after I reamed it about 1.1 mm. The body of these lights is thick enough to be a good heat pipe down its length.

    However, in the new style light, there is a possible heat bottleneck where the cylindrical front volume meets the cone shaped rear one. The body is much thinner there and may hinder heat movement. In both my lights, the copper carries past that point, by good luck. So I have no evidence there is an issue, just a suspicion. The old style version does not do this.

    I want to stuff an H6Flex in one. It will just clear a reamed ID. No room for the heatsink/firewall to bridge the thin spot. I also suspect I will be running at 3 A and 10 W rarely. And not stopped long in any case. No issues.

  10. #10
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    Good info

  11. #11
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    Not to hijack the thread, just throwing out info.
    I took a shot of a plain .125" thick slug I pressed into a Newer style Marwi housing.
    I presed it in as far back as it will go, until the housing tapers down.
    Measuring from the face of the slug to the front lip-bezel threads was 22mm deep.

    This is not deep enough for the reflector I use with the P7's (I need at least 27mm).
    I may try one of the Fraen reflectors mentioned by toaster to see how that works out.

    But it may work out fine for some of the other LED configs I see guys using.
    The housings are super cheap, very light weight and they taste like chicken.


  12. #12
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    Another run?

    Toaster & EI34,

    Are either one of you planning to mill a few more of your slug/heat-sinks? I have 3 Marwi (bullet style) lights I've converted to LED and your solutions are very slick. I simply cut & filed some heat-sinks by hand and glued them in place. I'm sure the thermal epoxy helps, but, I know a lot of heat is not getting transferred to the housing.

    Please let me know if either one of you are planning to do a run of your heat-sinks. I'd be interested in a few.

    Thanks,
    Todd

  13. #13
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    +6 (More Marwi units). I was planning to try the drill press as lathe method to map a route for the lathe impaired but reasonably handy. But if one of you is in the mood...and they are a decent price compared to hours in a cold shop, you may have another half dozen sold.

  14. #14
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    I could do mine very easily.
    It's just a flat piece of 6061 aluminum x .125" thick

    The problem is, can you work with 22mm MAX space between the face of the slug and the end of the threads on the body.
    It's not enough for the reflector and P7 combo I currently use, but it may be just fine for other LED, + Lens configs.

    It's not a cut and dried situation.
    Maybe your config only requires 18mm or 20mm of space?
    Can you press the slug into your Marwi body to the correct depth?
    Can you drill and tap threads to mount whatever LED you plan to use?

    There is no way I can make a One Size Fits all type of slug, so it would have to be a blank slug with no holes.
    Unless the community comes up with a few standard size hole situations.
    That can be programmed into the slugs, but the price would be higher.

  15. #15
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    Holes? IMHO If the builder can't drill the needed holes to mount the selected MCPCB configuration, he/she is unlikely to have the needed tools and skill to do the rest. This generic DIYer is OK in the skills dept., just tool deprived.

    Depth <= 22 mm? I was thinking a split-ring stop gauge for reducing depth to less than 22 mm: no need for exact OD, easily cut & filed to needed thickness and installed before pushing slug home until seated against the split ring.

    Depth > 22 mm? Can be done as a countersunk version, but more complex and optic-led specific for best thermal paths because the back tapers. More $

  16. #16
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    Holes!? I don't need no stinking holes.

    I'm with Brian, if you can't drill a couple holes, you probably shouldn't be messing with lights in the first place. I just don't have mill/lathe to make a proper, tight fitting slug. Pressing it in, tapping the holes, no problem.

    22mm should be fine for me. I'm using the Cutter triple optics (not a reflector) and I'm pretty sure that only needs 17mm including the MCPCB.

  17. #17
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    I am doing a motor/precision collet upgrade on the CNC next week when a part arrives.

    I may cut out a couple slugs for you guys to experiment with.
    That would be cool to see the different configs people come up with.

    I was cutting out an oversized circle on the cnc and then trimming it down to the exact diameter on the lathe.
    That is why there is a small hole in the center of my test slug.
    The cnc leaves small chatter marks on the edge of the slug because the old collet had a tiny bit of wobble
    The lathe makes the slug perfectly smooth

    The new CNC upgrade may get a better finished edge which would eliminate the lathe and the hole in the center.
    Have to wait and see after the upgrade.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34
    I may cut out a couple slugs for you guys to experiment with.
    That would be cool to see the different configs people come up with.
    That would be great, thanks! Any estimate how much each one will cost?

    As for builds, mine are pretty vanilla. Cutter 3-up optics, R2's with a maxFlex in one & Q5's with a FatMan in the other. The third housing was my first LED conversion with a single Q5. I was always worried about heat transfer (since I didn't have tight fitting slugs) and didn't try to over-build. With tight slugs, that'll probably change.

  19. #19
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    The slug I pressed in will not move.
    Hopefully the housings all have the same ID.

    Just .001 or .002 can make or break a good fit

  20. #20
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    Any update on the collet upgrade & slug cutting?

    Thanks

  21. #21
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    Nothing yet.
    Got a giant snow storm last week that stopped everything dead around here.

    Got the new part installed on the CNC but have not had time to calibrate it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench177
    Any update on the collet upgrade & slug cutting?

    Thanks
    What optics are you using?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34
    Nothing yet....have not had time to calibrate it.
    S'OK! Cutter just shipped today, well yesterday, our time. Some other projects on the front burner.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    S'OK! Cutter just shipped today, well yesterday, our time. Some other projects on the front burner.
    Just received my package a few minutes ago.
    Last edited by Toaster79; 01-19-2011 at 04:56 AM.

  25. #25
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    I'm using the Cutter MR11, 3-up optics for XRE R2 in one housing & a Q5 in the other. I wanted to try a quad, but, was worried about heat transfer. With a tight fitting slug, I could experiment with some quads. Or, I may just stick with what I have and know I'm getting the best possible heat transfer. I've been very happy with the amount and quality of light produced from the Cutter triples.

    I want to build something around a triple XPG, but, the small form factor offered by those emitters is wasted on the Marwi housing. The wife got me a few of these for Xmas. The suck as a light, but, may be well suited as a XPG housing. I really want a mill...and a lathe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toaster79
    Just received my package a few minutes ago.
    What are your plans for all those goodies? Marwi housing for the reflector and something custom for the smaller bits?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toaster79 View Post
    Just received my package a few minutes ago.
    Toaster79,

    Do you have a parts list and supplier for these parts to retrofit a single Marwi Nightpro (new model bullet shape housing) like yours (I have just one housing, not 2)? I had a bulb burn out and was thinking of retrofitting it with the SSC P7 LED. I have access to a cnc mill to play with the coins/slugs.

    Thanks - Mike

  27. #27
    A waste of time it is is
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    mntn-biker, EL34 is the one you want to talk to, he has a store that sells all the stuff needed for Marwi mods.

    Have a look at this thread.

  28. #28
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    I have Marwi stuff here on my LED Store page
    SSC P7 LED Bike light parts

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    mntn-biker, EL34 is the one you want to talk to, he has a store that sells all the stuff needed for Marwi mods.

    Have a look at this thread.
    I've been to EL34's site but I have the NEW style Marwi lite (the bullet shaped smaller housing) and his stuff won't fit my housing (he mentions this on his site that he does not have any DIY kits for the new style). I'm surprised that he does not have a DIY kit for the newer style housing, I wish he would....

    The above mod is something that would work for my housing but I don't know the parts that I need to get it to work. Toaster79 obviously has put this DIY kit together and hopefully he replies with a list of part numbers and supplier.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    I have Marwi stuff here on my LED Store page
    SSC P7 LED Bike light parts
    I have the new style bullet shaped housing. Do you have a kit for my housing?

  31. #31
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    Hi,
    No heat sinks for the newer style housings

    Reflectors, glass, mounts is all

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    Hi,
    No heat sinks for the newer style housings

    Reflectors, glass, mounts is all
    I thought those reflectors shown on your parts page were for the old style housing.

    Riddle me this..... Assuming the old style housing still mounts the same to the handlebar/helmet mounts. How much would it cost for a kit from you for the old style housing and all necessary parts to build one of these lights using parts from your page? Basically the whole shooting match from battery to light and everything in between.

  33. #33
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    Toaster79,

    Do you have a sketch with sizes of your slug that you made for the bullet shape Marwi housing? Do you need to press it in or could the stackup be modified so that it could be more of a slip fit for ease of disassembly? Not sure if this is feasible to plan for the lens cap to contain everything between the cap and the shoulder on the inside of the housing???

  34. #34
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    Cover glass

    Driver

    Reflectors

    Led (N bin)

    Parallel star board for MCE

    Don't have a sketch of the slugs, niether do remember measurments. Those were press fit like explained in the pictures. Do some measurments of your housing, star board thickness and reflector height and you'll know how deep the slug needs to be for specific optics and star boards. If you don't find the LED on the starr board so you'll have to do the reflow your self. You can do it on electric plate, just like I did with several LEDs an boards.

    If you need some more help with this mod, just let me know.

  35. #35
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    I thought those reflectors shown on your parts page were for the old style housing
    They are

    See the parts list on my build pages.
    SSC P7 LED Bike Light projects

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toaster79 View Post
    Cover glass

    Driver

    Reflectors

    Led (N bin)

    Parallel star board for MCE

    Don't have a sketch of the slugs, niether do remember measurments. Those were press fit like explained in the pictures. Do some measurments of your housing, star board thickness and reflector height and you'll know how deep the slug needs to be for specific optics and star boards. If you don't find the LED on the starr board so you'll have to do the reflow your self. You can do it on electric plate, just like I did with several LEDs an boards.

    If you need some more help with this mod, just let me know.
    Thanks for the info. How do the Cree LED's compare to the SSC P7 LED's? Are they brighter or same (DX claims 900 lumens)? I see that DX has some SSC P7's mounted to a heat sink already.

    Here are a couple of LED's I'm looking at so far:
    DX SSC P7 LED with 20mm heat sink - SSC P7 C-Bin LED Emitter with 21mm Heat Sink Base (3.6V~3.7V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

    DX Cree XMLAWT 1000 Lumen mounted on 20mm heat sink XMLAWT 1000-Lumen LED Emitter White Light Bulb (3.0~3.5V) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

    Cree XLamp MC-E K0-WG 370~700-Lumen LED Emitter on 20mm Star Board (MCE-WG-K0) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
    Last edited by mntn-biker; 10-07-2011 at 09:26 AM.

  37. #37
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    Look for data sheets of those LEDs

  38. #38
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    I think I've narrowed it down to:

    SSC P7 C-Bin LED Emitter with 21mm Heat Sink Base

    Regulated CV/CC LED Driver Circuit Board for Cree MC-E/SSC P7 Emitters

    Fraen reflector

    Lens

    I was debating going with the Cree MC-E LED as Toaster79 used above but I can buy most everything from DX with exception of the reflector unless of course someone thinks the Cree LED is a better way to go.

    I'm thinking of tearing my Marwi battery water bottle apart (NOT the lead acid one, the NiMh black one) and using that as a battery holder so then I can use the same plugs, switch, etc.

    I will probably need to contract a local machine shop to machine up a couple of inserts/slugs to mount everything to in my newer style (bullet shaped) Marwi Nightpro housings. I have 2 of them, 1 of my bulbs is burned out in the one that I plan to convert to LED. If this is successful, I will convert my other Marwi to LED as well. 1 thing I might attempt is to have my insert/slug drilled and tapped on the side wall and drill a clearance hole in my housing so that I can easily assemble and disassemble the insert/slug and also not have to be so concerned about making it a press fit but more of a slip fit. I like what I see with Toaster79's cup and will go that route as a starting point.

    Toaster - Is that 2mm wall thickness still disapating the heat ok?

  39. #39
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    Have you checked if the Fraen reflector works well with a P7? Mixing emitters and optics/reflectors is a hit and miss operation with more misses than hits. It almost always involves modifying the optic/reflector. Buy extras to experiment with. The narrow Fraen works really well on the MCE. You could save yourself some trouble and just use it instead of the P7.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Have you checked if the Fraen reflector works well with a P7? Mixing emitters and optics/reflectors is a hit and miss operation with more misses than hits. It almost always involves modifying the optic/reflector. Buy extras to experiment with. The narrow Fraen works really well on the MCE. You could save yourself some trouble and just use it instead of the P7.
    Great feedback!!! Maybe someone else will chime in with their experience with the SSC P7 and the Fraen reflector???

    I was also thinking the SSC P7 is already mounted on a star but then I found a Cree MCE N bin on the Cutter Electronics website:

    Cutter MCE20STRN-CW

    I see you can order the LED in 4 different style mounts but I'm thinking I would go with the parallel mount.
    Last edited by mntn-biker; 10-09-2011 at 10:24 PM.

  41. #41
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    The fraen's will fit a p7 if you drill out the center. a step drill works really well for this.

    The fraen narrow reflectors work well with a p7 to give you a very bright central spot and a dimmer, but still fairly bright spill area. Some find them too focused for trail riding. They do make excellent road lights.

    Mark
    Nimium est melior!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntn-biker View Post
    I see you can order the LED in 4 different style mounts but I'm thinking I would go with the parallel mount.
    With the driver you linked above, the parallel configuration is what you need.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The fraen's will fit a p7 if you drill out the center. a step drill works really well for this.

    The fraen narrow reflectors work well with a p7 to give you a very bright central spot and a dimmer, but still fairly bright spill area. Some find them too focused for trail riding. They do make excellent road lights.

    Mark
    I found this to be an interesting read:

    Fraen-FRC-A3P7-datasheet.pdf

  44. #44
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    Ive had success using Cree XMLs together with DX 35mm reflectors, like the ones El34 sells. They are able to make a nice tight beam with plenty of usable spill. the XML has a much bigger die than the XRE it which it was designed for so the spot is bigger, but still makes the most of it.

    I like the XML emitter because they are cheep, the most efficient to date, small 5mm emitter, and a low forward voltage of 3.4V, so you can run it off a single 18650 setup.

    The only modification needed to the lens is to cut the threaded section off with a pipe cutter.

    The reflectors are pretty long though, and probably wont fit unless you put the slug in backwards and machine a deep hole for the emitter and lens to sit in.

    Here's a look at my http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do...od-582783.html , its using the bell shaped Marwi housing, so it may not be too helpful, but I have experimented with the 35mm adapters but the lens cover wouldn't screw all the way down with it, even backwards.

    I can take some measurements of the total stack length of the lens, emitter, glass and o ring so you can know what you would be dealing with if you like. i also have a loose 35mm adapter , which fits tight, that I'm not using, but i don't have a micrometer to give you a measurement of it.
    Last edited by Uzzi_PA; 10-11-2011 at 10:57 AM.

  45. #45
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    Anyone ever use a Cree XML emitter with a Fraen MCE reflector?

    xmlawt-T6-1000-lumen-led-emitter-white-light-bulb-3-0-3-5v-51989

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzi_PA View Post
    Ive had success using Cree XMLs together with DX 35mm reflectors, like the ones El34 sells. They are able to make a nice tight beam with plenty of usable spill. the XML has a much bigger die than the XRE it which it was designed for so the spot is bigger, but still makes the most of it.

    I like the XML emitter because they are cheep, the most efficient to date, small 5mm emitter, and a low forward voltage of 3.4V, so you can run it off a single 18650 setup.

    The only modification needed to the lens is to cut the threaded section off with a pipe cutter.

    The reflectors are pretty long though, and probably wont fit unless you put the slug in backwards and machine a deep hole for the emitter and lens to sit in.

    Here's a look at my http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do...od-582783.html , its using the bell shaped Marwi housing, so it may not be too helpful, but I have experimented with the 35mm adapters but the lens cover wouldn't screw all the way down with it, even backwards.

    I can take some measurements of the total stack length of the lens, emitter, glass and o ring so you can know what you would be dealing with if you like. i also have a loose 35mm adapter , which fits tight, that I'm not using, but i don't have a micrometer to give you a measurement of it.
    Do you know or could you measure the length of the DX 35mm reflector after you cutoff the threads? Could you also measure the thickness of the lip so I can figure out what a stackup would be?

    DX has some caliper measurement pics on their site but the reflector length overall is all they show.

    Assuming this is the reflector you are talking about:

    35mm*35mm Aluminum Textured/OP Reflector for Cree LED Emitters (2-Pack) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

  47. #47
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    From this post, the 35mm MCE Fraen reflector works fine with an XML emitter. Got some lights to modify

    Yes that's the same reflector I used. The total length without the threads is 24mm, and the lip is 1.5mm, also the back end is 22mm Diameter. The hole is just big enough for the XML plus its square base to fit into.

    One other modification I had to do was grind 45 degree chunks on 2 sides of the emitter hole so the solder pads have room for wire and solder, since the back end is flat.

  48. #48
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    When you start modeling up these components, it is easy to see how cramped for room we are in these new style housings. I would like to find a larger diameter heat sink to mount the LED to so I can get my screws away from the base of the reflector. The reflector is plastic but if I can get the screws outboard, I can reduce my stack height (in theory) to what is shown and have my LED nest up inside the reflector. If anyone knows of a larger diameter heat sink, please post up.

    Thanks - Mike


  49. #49
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    Sorry for hijacking your thread.

    I have started my Marwi light build thread here

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