GREAT Battery Deal!!!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759

    GREAT Battery Deal!!!

    WOW I just noticed this and immediately bought one.. Will report back when It is shows up.

    http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion186...onnectors.aspx

    And it gets better - the following code got me 11% "T0487"

    I dont need or want a battery that size but since its cheaper than 2200mah packs or building a pack I went for it. 2200mah cells are not as good as 2600 but with 9 of them it should not be an issue. You cant even buy 9 decent 2200mah cells with no protection or tabs for this price.

    Now I will be wishing for a 1.5A or even 2A charger mine is one of those universal 1,2,3 or 4 cell 500ma "smart" chargers.

  2. #2
    I like bloody ankles
    Reputation: dsjc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    139
    I got the same battery for that low price and used the coupon code just two weeks ago. I posted the deal on CPF and should have cross-posted then. Like my other experiences with the vendor, the product was at my door within a week and is good quality.

    Great deal !

  3. #3
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    I need a 14.8v pack for my handlebar light - can anyone think why I shouldn't be able to cut open this pack and replace the PCB with this 14.8 model, after rearranging the cells:

    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...lipcb14v4.aspx

    My thought would be to wire three pairs of parallel cells, plus a triplet of parallel cells, to get the nine cells to fit the 3.7 x 3.7 x 3.7 x 3.7 config needed for the protection circuit.

    edit: if I'm going to cut it up, might as well just pare it down to 8 cells, right?

    edit 2: This coupon code may only work if you've ordered recently from All-Battery:
    BTW, All-Battery's "tenergydeals" coupon will give you free shipping right now. That's $7.59 off compared to $4.91 for the other code, if this is the only item in your cart.
    Last edited by Village; 04-29-2009 at 03:11 PM.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    216
    anychance of anyone buying them and then shipping them airmail to folk in nz as the freight kills us ($83.67)

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    all-battery has a ebay store that has usps shipping that is cheaper and for you international folk usps shipping would be hugely cheaper. Not a huge selection on the ebay store but probably worth looking at.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    They have pushed the postage cost up quite a bit on the ebay shop since I last used them.
    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/All-Battery...QQftidZ2QQtZkm

  7. #7
    Five is right out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Village
    I need a 14.8v pack for my handlebar light - can anyone think why I shouldn't be able to cut open this pack and replace the PCB with this 14.8 model, after rearranging the cells:

    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...lipcb14v4.aspx

    My thought would be to wire three pairs of parallel cells, plus a triplet of parallel cells, to get the nine cells to fit the 3.7 x 3.7 x 3.7 x 3.7 config needed for the protection circuit.

    edit: if I'm going to cut it up, might as well just pare it down to 8 cells, right?

    edit 2: This coupon code may only work if you've ordered recently from All-Battery:
    BTW, All-Battery's "tenergydeals" coupon will give you free shipping right now. That's $7.59 off compared to $4.91 for the other code, if this is the only item in your cart.
    Yes, use 8 cells- parallel pairs, each pair wired in series. I don't think there's any reasonable way of using all 9 cells.

    If you want to be fairly thorough about it, you should consider installing balance leads when you construct the pack, or use a PCB that has a balance function built into it. Though people with a lot more experience with me in these matters tell me that balancing isn't nececssary if the cells are well matched before construction.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zen bicycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    463

  9. #9
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Here's a bit of good news if you're doing what I am and reconfiguring the pack to 14.8v 4400mah: the built-in PCB is actually an 11.1v / 14.8v unit! I cut open the pack and found that there's one terminal unused. See the photo below. I also just ordered nine of the packs from the link zen bicycle posted for my friends' lights - crossing my fingers that these are the exact same packs. Everything about them seems to be the same. Edit: yeah the vendors are one in the same - both Tenergy.


  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    906
    So if you want a 14.8v pack all you need to do is move the '-' wire to the empty P- pad?

    Forgive my confusion... but if that's all there is to it I have some lights that could use a new pack
    Stache 7 --- Rigid Surly 1x1 B+ --- Dirt Drop CrossCheck

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    6,344
    Quote Originally Posted by Frs1661
    So if you want a 14.8v pack all you need to do is move the '-' wire to the empty P- pad?

    Forgive my confusion... but if that's all there is to it I have some lights that could use a new pack
    The original configuration is 3S3P. You would have to rewire the batteries for a 4S2P set-up to get a 14.8v 4400mah output. That leaves you with one extra battery. In answer to your question: no, that is not all there is to it. Anyway, that is one darn good price for a battery pack that size, even if they are only 2200mah cells.

  12. #12
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Like Cat-man-do said, it will be major surgery. Check out this wiring diagram for reference:
    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...lipcb14v4.aspx

    If time is big money then you should just order a 14.8v 4400mah pack. They're $73 "on sale" right now. I don't mind the challenge of re-soldering, especially since I need multiple packs.

  13. #13
    aka Chris
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    They have pushed the postage cost up quite a bit on the ebay shop since I last used them.
    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/All-Battery...QQftidZ2QQtZkm
    Yeah, I noticed that the other day. Looks like they don't send using USPS anymore I'm sure I read somewhere the Li-Ion packs are classed as dangerous these days by some couriers.
    The Novice's LED Light Building Blog

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    The original configuration is 3S3P. You would have to rewire the batteries for a 4S2P set-up to get a 14.8v 4400mah output. That leaves you with one extra battery. In answer to your question: no, that is not all there is to it. Anyway, that is one darn good price for a battery pack that size, even if they are only 2200mah cells.
    Thanks CMD... that's what I assumed originally. Still so cheap it's probably worth it
    Stache 7 --- Rigid Surly 1x1 B+ --- Dirt Drop CrossCheck

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5

    Battery Pack assembly info

    This site also helps you to understand battery pack wiring:
    http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_lipo.html
    I found it pretty usefull.
    Also have a look at this video on "How to make a battery pack". It shows a very good method to solder battery packs.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IelXf...eature=related

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    121
    Nice price but they don't seem to ship outside the US......

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    Just got mine and tore off the shrink wraping, it is indeed a 11.1/14.8v PCB CS-066-A-3S/4S
    Now i just need to carefully partially disassemble it and re-wire it correctly. The labeling on the PCB is not the most straight forward. I am assuming I will be adding the B3 connection to the negative end of the third cell and moving the B+ connection to the + end of the 4th cell moving down the series. I wonder If I will also need to move the - side of the discharge terminal to the center pad labeled P-. WOW I hope I don't mess this up.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759

    Further muddying the water......

    Well Now I am a little stumped. Check out this PCB wiring diagram
    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...k12alimit.aspx

    I am hoping its just not correct because it has nothing connected to the B3 terminal. I am starting to think I need to find a wiring diagram for this PCB.

  19. #19
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjay
    Well Now I am a little stumped. Check out this PCB wiring diagram
    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...k12alimit.aspx

    I am hoping its just not correct because it has nothing connected to the B3 terminal. I am starting to think I need to find a wiring diagram for this PCB.
    bikerjay, you should look at this PCB diagram instead. It's closer to what comes with these packs:
    http://www.all-battery.com/protectio...lipcb14v4.aspx

    Hopefully I'll get to configuring mine in a couple days and will let you know how it goes! BTW, my second order from the Amazon link arrived this morning, so shipment time isn't bad.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    24
    also on e-bay Aust but without the web-site special - see
    http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/All-B...V-14-8V_li-ion

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759

    update

    Got mine re-configured now. I have not had a chance to try charging yet though. Here is what I did based on the picture posted earlier. I cut off the top 3 cells with a razor blade and then cut them apart. I set one aside. With the remaining two loose cells I soldered them together in parallel. Then I removed the original connection to the B+ pad. Then I taped the two cells to the right side of the pack with the - end facing the old B+ connection. Next i soldered the newly added cells to the existing cells. Then I soldered a short wire from B3 to where I connected the new cells to the existing ones. Then I soldered another short wire to the new B+ connection. Sure enough the P- and P+ pads now read 15.2. Also worth noting is that the 2 P- pads are electrically connected.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    Google prevails once again. I finally broke down and unsoldered a couple connections to the PCB so I could flip it over and see the component side completely. It is a PCM-CS004S-66 a quick google search brings up the instructions for the exact board in 14.4v use. http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/14.8vpcb.pdf
    After a quick rewire according to the instructions on the pdf it seems to work. After running down the battery a little I put it on my charger and the led changed color very briefly and the battery regained the .03V I had drained.
    A couple more observations, there are stand offs on the board for a fuel gauge. Another odd thing is that when I put my multimeter on P- and P+ it reads 14.84v. From B- and B+ it read 15.17 B- to B1 reads 11.38V, B- to B2 7.58V, B- to B3 3.79V. Guess its balancing pretty well. I will drain and charge it once I finish off my troutlight and post yet another update after checking the balance again.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    38
    This seems like a great deal, I plan on building a light once the XPG leds come out. Can anyone recommend a charger that would be good when I rebuild it to a 14.8v?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    I am having a lot of trouble charging with my rewired battery. I use this charger - http://www.all-battery.com/universal...v1-4cells.aspx.
    It charges all my other packs fine and has done a great job with a 14.4V pack I built a year more than a year ago. I think my PCB may be damaged. When I by pass it and go straight to the battery pack the voltage is noticeably higher than the discharge terminals. Normally when I connect a battery to the charger the indicator light on the charger goes red. This does not happen at the discharge terminals of the PCB. Out of desperation I have tried putting the charger leads on the battery terminals by passing the PCB, this works fine but I have only tried it for very short instants because it would probably damage the PCB.

  25. #25
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Bikerjay,

    What's the voltage output across the charge terminals of the PCB? I finally reconfigured one of my packs the other day and thought I had fried the PCB when it read 0.0v across the terminals! Apparently the short-circuit protection had tripped during the build, but somehow by measuring resistance rather than voltage with my VOM caused it to reset (could have been coincidence - I don't know). Anyway, the pack works great now.

  26. #26

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    68
    Do these deliver to the UK?

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    170
    I do MrB

    Anyone who has problems with batteries that theyve built or bought and live in the UK if they would prefer to send me them to me check over I can do this for you.
    Please email me if need be.

    before you attempt to build youre own batteries firstly ensure they are all from the same batch and have the same measured OCV on each cell.

    Most pcb's are short-circuit protected and just popping it back on the charger for a few minutes should be enough to re-set the circuit

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    I have tried connecting the charger and waiting nothing ever happens and my other battery with a different PCB never fails to take a charge.

    My PCB just wont reset and it seems to have a huge amount of internal resistance. It reads 16v across the battery terminals before the PCB and after the PCB it reads only 14.4v.
    I have now used the battery for a few hours of night riding with my newly built 6xp-e. The Maxflex indicates its at half charge now. I still cant get the thing to take a charge. I have even tried shorting the leads for an instance.

    I think next I will try removing and reconnecting the PCB again.

  29. #29
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Up from the crypt, just an update for anyone interested:

    Last time I posted I spoke too soon. The battery discharged fine in the new configuration but when I finally hooked it up to my charger it wouldn't take. In fact the voltage monitor on my Triton read 32v+!! I ended up replacing the PCB on one of my packs with a new 14.8v PCB and it now charges just fine.

    Well, today I finally discovered the problem. The PCM-CS004S-66 protection module which comes with this pack (and sold by Battery Space and All-Battery) is touted as an 11.1v / 14.8v PCB, *depending on the component configuration*. That is, the difference between the two voltages is a matter of three resistors and one capacitor. You can see these differences by comparing the product photos on All-Battery's site of their 11.1v and 14.8v modules. I'm going to try this evening to cannibalize parts from one PCB to reconfigure several other PCBs to work at 14.8v. Normally I wouldn't waste the time and would just order the $10 14.8v driver but I've got to get these batteries fixed for a race the weekend :-)

    Hope it helps you Jay

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    I gave up on the PCB, and that totally explains why it didn't work. I guess now fixing it would be an option. For now I have been just living dangerously and running unprotected. The solution I came up with is to buy yet another battery and parts for yet another light, I will then sell my current charger and the light I am about to build with a new battery and purchase a new balancing charger for my self. Battery PCBs are kinda pricey at around $12 each with shipping, now that I know a balance charger can be had for around 40 bucks. Since i would have to replace the PCB I have and buy another one for a new battery that will be used for a light for my girlfriend the balance charger seems like the way to go. Plus If I build packs from loose cells (especially ones from DX) it would be good to have the cells perfectly balanced first since I have just leaned that that is important.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrissa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    149
    I have some questions about wiring these batteries in parallel/series. For the examples in this thread of 2-parallel 4-series packs, are pairs of cells first wired parallel, then the pairs all connected in series?

    When using a protection board like the ones described above for 4 cell-series, is a single board used for the 8 cell packs? Each parallel pair of batteries are attached to each cell bank on the board?

    If so, are there any risks to having two Li-Ions in parallel connected to the same protection cell circuit?

    And if a protection circuit board wasn't used, but instead a balance connector was added to a 2-parallel by 4-series pack, are there any risks to having parallel batteries connected to one of each of the balance connectors and have those batteries charged in parallel? That doesn't exactly isolate each individual cell.

    Or, would you never wire batteries in pairs before connecting the pairs in series? Would two protection boards be used instead, where each board manages 4 cells in series, and the overall outputs on the boards are wired in parallel?

    How would a pack with a balance connector and no protection boards work? Two separate series strings of 4 cells each where only the overall + and - ends are wired together? Each series string gets their own balanced connector possibly requiring an 8 cell balance charger? Does this create problems if one string is charged and the other isn't or they charge at different rates? Would the strings needs to be electrically separated at one end during charging to isolate them?

    That could be a real bunch of noob questions. I hope some of my ramblings make sense, otherwise maybe I should sketch out some quick wiring diagrams if needed (or someone does the same in return to help answer some of my questions? ).

    Chris.

  32. #32
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Chris, I had actually sketched up a wiring diagram of my 14.8v 4400mAh pack yesterday for my benefit, so I'll post it for yours :-) This should answer a few questions.

    Follow-up to my board surgery: it worked! I moved one resistor over in the bank of five on the edge of the board, removed another resistor, added a capacitor, and added another resistor near the large R020 resistor. It was fun to say I did it but not worth the time if I could have ordered a 14.8v configuration earlier.


  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    759
    Unless I am mistaken by paralleling cells you can effectively double the C rating of the batteries, so with a 4s2p pack you can charge at 2.4A. Using a 500ma charger for a parallel pack will yield a very slow overnight charge.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrissa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    149
    Village,

    Thanks for that picture. That's exactly what I had in mind in the first part of my ramblings.

    So, for all the experts, wiring the cells in parallel like that is safe for them?

    For those who tore open the 9-cell 3P3S packs (that this thread is named for), they were wired up in a similar fashion?

  35. #35
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by chrissa
    Village,

    Thanks for that picture. That's exactly what I had in mind in the first part of my ramblings.

    So, for all the experts, wiring the cells in parallel like that is safe for them?

    For those who tore open the 9-cell 3P3S packs (that this thread is named for), they were wired up in a similar fashion?
    The original 9-cell 3P3S packs differ from my diagram in only the following ways: each parallel bank was formed with 3 cells (obviously), and the lead on "B3" is moved to "B -", omitting the left-most bank of cells.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    752
    Quote Originally Posted by chrissa
    Village,

    Thanks for that picture. That's exactly what I had in mind in the first part of my ramblings.

    So, for all the experts, wiring the cells in parallel like that is safe for them?

    For those who tore open the 9-cell 3P3S packs (that this thread is named for), they were wired up in a similar fashion?
    Yes, it's relatively safe for any type of battery where the voltage rises continuously when they're fully charged. So it safe for Li-ion, Lipo, Lead Acid to name a few of the most common types. It's not safe for batteries that are charged at constant current such as Nimh or Nicad.

    The reason I say relatively safe, there is a very slight chance that a cell could exceed the max charge current rating. For the cells in parallel, there is no way to guarantee the current splits evenly between them during the current limited portion of the charge. But in general, if the cells are similar and of the same age the current will split fairly evenly. You can prevent this risk by limiting the overall charge current to the max limit for a single cell. Since the single cell charge current is 1C, that's 2.4 amps for a pack built with 2.4 amp-hour cells. Then it's impossible for a single cell to go over current and that's a quick enough charge for most people with pack with 2 or 3 cells deep. It is why it's not a good idea to go really deep with parallel cells. This problems become more of a real issue with an increasing depth of parallel cells. Even if you go with a higher charge current limits, it's really rare to have a real problem as long as you stay well below the absolute max theoretical total pack current limit. As an example, if you have a 3s3p pack built with 2.4 amp hour cells, you could charge it as high 3 x 2.4 (7.2) amps but you would be assuming the current split perfectly evenly between all the parallel strings in the pack. Personally, I'd be ok with a charge limit up to half of that theoretical max. So 3.6 amps for 3p pack with 2.4 ah cells.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrissa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    149
    MtbMacgyver,

    Thanks for that reply. I think you've answered many of the questions (and suspicions) I've had about how this would all work. Again, thanks.

    Chris.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.