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  1. #1
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    another coiler vs dawg question

    ok this may be similar to other question out here but i need to ask anyhow! i have an 04 dawg dee lux..i changed the fork to a fox vanilla for 5" of travel and kept the rear at 4". the stem was changed to a 70 mm azonic and the tires to maxxis high roller 2.3. thatt being said i think i want more travel!! i am looking at the 05 coiler primo at a very very good price but i think i will change the marzocchi 66 fork for an 06 fox 36 160mm coil spring..reason being is the weight and because of how high the 66 sits up...so my question is...is it going to give me a completely different ride....meaning will i really notice the diff in suspension over the dawg and will swapping the marzocchi for the fox 36 really make a big diff on the climbs. any help/comments on any of this would be really really helpful!!! thanks again this board ROCKS--jay

  2. #2
    Just roll it......
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    My thoughts....

    Jay,

    I've got a similar setup to you - albeit an older Bear - with a "pushed" rear shock (4" w/ stock linkage) and a 5" fork on the front. I love this bike. On the other hand, I also have an older Stinky Primo (6" in the rear) with a 66 RC (170mm) on the front. I love this bike as well, but yes, you will notice that they ride differently. The new Coiler would ride very similarly to my bike and I can say that you can't wipe the sh*t eating grin off my face on that bike. It's ultra plush and totally confidence inspiring. Granted, mine is built up with burly parts, but it still does some XC duty for me and, while I may climb slower on it, it's a total blast when the trails point down or on swoopy/rolly stuff. I did a ride on Thursday that I hadn't done since I was on a HT w/ a 80mm fork and WOW was that a different experience!! I was literaly launching off of stuff landing in babyhead sized rocks and just plowing through them. That trail used to sketch me out in the past and here we were airing off of everything in sight.

    Beyond the obvious weight implications, both of my bikes climb and pedal well. The 66RC is a VERY tall fork and, as a result, it isn't as good of a climber - but then again, The bike is designed around different angles. With that said, I used to have a shorter fork on my bike (Super T) and it climbed better than it does now (believe it or not). The '06 66's will have a new lower that'll lower it by 40mm Axle-to-Crown and that will make a huge difference and will likely make it a much more desirable for doing more than just hairball descents.

    I'll reserve judgement on the new Coil Vanilla 36 until I see how they do with their durability. I know there are many cases of the air versions losing some travel, but I certainly have confidence that Fox will get that straightened out. Anyway, I've owned a Fox (coil) in the past and had a great experience with it. I think a Coiler with the new oil/coil version would be sweet. Something to consider is the 2006 "Coil-Air" that'll be out next year that will have the DHX Air on the back.

    Cheers,
    EB
    Last edited by ebxtreme; 07-30-2005 at 02:06 PM.

  3. #3
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    wow EB thanks for all the great info!!! i think i am going to go for it regarding the coiler and the fox 36 coil...i ride a an 05 vanilla and love the thing!! and yeah i saw the Coilair thats coming out and i checked with my local regarding the price and its way out of my buget...around 3900...i am only going with this cause i got a great dela on the primo...i got it for the price of a dee lux 2699...and the forks will be swapped out for only the diff between them which is around 150...but again thanks!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Jay,

    I've got a similar setup to you - albeit an older Bear - with a "pushed" rear shock (4" w/ stock linkage) and a 5" fork on the front. I love this bike. On the other hand, I also have an older Stinky Primo (6" in the rear) with a 66 RC (170mm) on the front. I love this bike as well, but yes, you will notice that they ride differently. The new Coiler would ride very similarly to my bike and I can say that you can't wipe the sh*t eating grin off my face on that bike. It's ultra plush and totally confidence inspiring. Granted, mine is built up with burly parts, but it still does some XC duty for me and, while I may climb slower on it, it's a total blast when the trails point down or on swoopy/rolly stuff. I did a ride on Thursday that I hadn't done since I was on a HT w/ a 80mm fork and WOW was that a different experience!! I was literaly launching off of stuff landing in babyhead sized rocks and just plowing through them. That trail used to sketch me out in the past and here we were airing off of everything in sight.

    Beyond the obvious weight implications, both of my bikes climb and pedal well. The 66RC is a VERY tall fork and, as a result, it isn't as good of a climber - but then again, The bike is designed around different angles. With that said, I used to have a shorter fork on my bike (Super T) and it climbed better than it does now (believe it or not). The '06 66's will have a new lower that'll lower it by 40mm Axle-to-Crown and that will make a huge difference and will likely make it a much more desirable for doing more than just hairball descents.

    I'll reserve judgement on the new Coil Vanilla 36 until I see how they do with their durability. I know there are many cases of the air versions losing some travel, but I certainly have confidence that Fox will get that straightened out. Anyway, I've owned a Fox (coil) in the past and had a great experience with it. I think a Coiler with the new oil/coil version would be sweet. Something to consider is the 2006 "Coil-Air" that'll be out next year that will have the DHX Air on the back.

    Cheers,
    EB

  4. #4
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme

    and I can say that you can't wipe the sh*t eating grin off my face on that bike.


    EB
    Great review EB but there was one thing that jumped out for me...............interesting
    and I am LMAO.

    Sorry dude........couldn't help myself.......

    So when are we getting together for another ride?

    Cherio

    K

  5. #5
    Just roll it......
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    Ok, DP, but it's true though.....I swear.

    Actually, I have a sh*t eating grin on my face riding any bike, but that's beside the point.....

    Hey, I'll be in BC next weekend for the mayhem. We're doing 3 days in the park (not during Crankworx) and then we'll do 2 days XC during the festival to get out of the madness and out on our own. I'll assume that's not your cup of tea, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. We're planning to ride Gargamel and Khyber Pass for our two XC rides, so both will be burly days.

    Also, I'm planning to ride with a buch of folks at Galbraith on August 13th if you'd want to join us in the good ole US of A. It's a semi-organized ride being held by my buddy's at Transition bikes (they just moved their offices to Ferndale as well) and I'll be along for the ride - despite my Kona allegiances. Otherwise, it's looking like late August or early September.

    Cheers,
    EB

    P.S. Jay, sounds like you'll have a nice rig. Let us know what you think after you get a month or two on it. Be warned......you'll notice the weight at first, but after a few weeks, it'll just feel normal to you.

  6. #6
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    i no doubt will EB..thanks again

  7. #7
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    Koko85,
    I have done the same thing. I have a 2005 Dawg Dee-lux and love it but wanted all coil suspension. Rather then replace the for with a 130 Vanilla and DHX shock, I felt the Coiler was nearly the same fram with the slightly longer travel and the only real weight difference was the components. So I bought a 05 Coiler Dee-lux and plan to fit the shorter and lighter Fox 36 Vanilla and build a wheel/tire combo that is lighter for better climbing.
    As for comparing the two bike, the Coiler climbs about as well and the suspension isn't at all an issue, infact it eats technical roots and rocks better but you can fell the heavier wheels/tires. It is neat now that my wife rides the Dawg Dee-lux that I am able to swap off mid ride to compare the two bikes.

    William
    Santa Cruz

  8. #8
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    thanks william...one question though...are the frames the same or do you find that the coiler is geometrically configured for more of a freeride set up than an XC?? i would hope that the coiler wont have you stretched out as much and would have you sitting further back over the rear wheel?? lemme know..and thanks again!


    Quote Originally Posted by ow595
    Koko85,
    I have done the same thing. I have a 2005 Dawg Dee-lux and love it but wanted all coil suspension. Rather then replace the for with a 130 Vanilla and DHX shock, I felt the Coiler was nearly the same fram with the slightly longer travel and the only real weight difference was the components. So I bought a 05 Coiler Dee-lux and plan to fit the shorter and lighter Fox 36 Vanilla and build a wheel/tire combo that is lighter for better climbing.
    As for comparing the two bike, the Coiler climbs about as well and the suspension isn't at all an issue, infact it eats technical roots and rocks better but you can fell the heavier wheels/tires. It is neat now that my wife rides the Dawg Dee-lux that I am able to swap off mid ride to compare the two bikes.

    William
    Santa Cruz

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by koko85
    thanks william...one question though...are the frames the same or do you find that the coiler is geometrically configured for more of a freeride set up than an XC?? i would hope that the coiler wont have you stretched out as much and would have you sitting further back over the rear wheel?? lemme know..and thanks again!
    With a shorter fork the Coiler is going to be very close to the same geometry as the Dawg. Top tubes are the same length.

    I bought a Coiler instead of a Stinky because I wanted the more XC/trail position. Did not get a Dawg because I wanted coil springs.

    As equipped the Coiler geometry is between the Dawg and Stinky.

    The Coiler frame is also a bit tougher than the Dawg.
    mtbtires.com
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  10. #10
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    shoot--i hope going with the coiler is not a waste of $$$$...but i gotta imagine that the suspension alone will inspire more confidence--if not make bigger drops feel much smoother?? i mean 6/6 seems like much more than 5/4

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    With a shorter fork the Coiler is going to be very close to the same geometry as the Dawg. Top tubes are the same length.

    I bought a Coiler instead of a Stinky because I wanted the more XC/trail position. Did not get a Dawg because I wanted coil springs.

    As equipped the Coiler geometry is between the Dawg and Stinky.

    The Coiler frame is also a bit tougher than the Dawg.

  11. #11
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by koko85
    shoot--i hope going with the coiler is not a waste of $$$$...but i gotta imagine that the suspension alone will inspire more confidence--if not make bigger drops feel much smoother?? i mean 6/6 seems like much more than 5/4
    The Coiler suspension is great and feels bottomless to me. Definitely freeride capable.

    The FRAME geometry (body position) is fairly close to the Dawg. A shorter stem does wonders for the drops.
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  12. #12
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    Koko85,
    The geometry is near identical between the dawg and the Coiler with the exceptions of the angles altered by the length of the fork and the extra inch of rear suspension. I'm also betting that it will climb even better with the shorter fork (more weight over the front tire) and bringing the sseat angle more vertical with should place the seat over the crank more for better peddling. And as are the frame tube components(same size), unless the tubing is thicker but I doubt it. I would even bet the frame weights are very close minus the shock, as we know the DHX is approx. 1lbs heavier then the air version. But the swing arms are similar in size and the difference in suspension rocker arms seems minimal (yet the Dawg's are hollowed out).
    Again riding both bikes today, the coiler is stable yet nimble enough for tight single track but you have to yank it over a bit but the upside is that it allows me to just barrel over anything if I don't pull a clean line. My riding buddy is amazed at how it can carve down the single track and also plow over about anything.
    In comparison, the Dawg DL is like a scalpel with much more precision and instant line corrections, but now that I am getting used to the Coiler DL I feel if I might break the Dawg with the adjustment in how I ride it. Much of it in the outright speed and the off-trail lines I like to now take, as they offer more jumps, obstacles...fun.
    But I would like to incorporate some of the handling traits of the Dawg to the Coiler.
    My original thought was to fit my Coiler DL with a Fox 130 Vanilla, as this would loose quite a bit of extra weight but I'm concerned that with the 6" rear, being taller then the 5" Dawg's and shortening the fork 75mm (the difference) that the geometry would be too extreme and twitchy and now that I'm getting used to the 20mm thru-axle fork, the Fox130 on the Dawg seems a bit flexi and small. But as I have a useful donor with the Dawg, I may steal the front end for a few days and fit it to my Coiler and feel the results.
    But the logical and direction I will go, will be to fit the Fox 36 Vanilla, which is still 40mm shorter then the stock Marzocchi 66vr, lighter and has a bit more travel.
    Last the Coiler really does a great job climbing, again the shorter fork and lighter wheels/tires will make it even that much better. The only climbing down side is if youíre a big out of the seat climber, then you will feel the extra suspension. You will just need to ride it like a long travel full suspension bike and stay seated (short burst excepted).
    Anyone else change the fork on their Coiler? The 2006ís will have the shorter 66Vr (40mm) and the rest of the frame/suspension seems the same, so we will see if the geometry numbers change.

    William
    Santa Cruz



    Quote Originally Posted by koko85
    thanks william...one question though...are the frames the same or do you find that the coiler is geometrically configured for more of a freeride set up than an XC?? i would hope that the coiler wont have you stretched out as much and would have you sitting further back over the rear wheel?? lemme know..and thanks again!
    Last edited by ow595; 08-01-2005 at 11:06 PM.

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