Warden coil shock?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Warden coil shock?

    Hey there,

    I have a '16 Warden with a Cane Creek CCDB Air shock that needs a servicing.
    While it's away for it's sprinkling of fairy dust and such I'm wondering if a coil over shock would make a nice 'place-keeper?'

    I'm about 225lbs and I know setting up a coil is a bit more of a pain in trying to find to right coil stiffness, but I'm also thinking a simple "set it up, forget about it, and go" might better for me.

    I'm the type who doesn't spend a lot of time fussing around with high/low speed compressions etc, so the CCDB Air I have is most likely being underutilized by me. To those that like to do the 'ultimate' shock dialing I applaud you, but that's just not me.

    So, before making a long story longer: anybody have success with a coil over on their Warden, and if so, whatcha' using?

    Cheers,

    Mike

  2. #2
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    I've got a CCDB Coil IL on my crbn wrdn and I love it. I was about 230lbs when I first got it and ran it with a 550lb spring. The thing was butter then and still is now, 2.5 years later with no service and more than a few miles. I haven't changed the settings too much since that initial setup, either. About all I'd do was slow down the rebound a few clicks for dh days, but then I ended up leaving it there haha. The bike does so well with that little shock on it, can't recommend it enough. I was mainly trail riding the bike, using it as a do-everything machine with dh days tossed in for good measure.

  3. #3
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    We agree:

    The CC Coil IL shock is a phenomenal shock for the Warden platform

    Cheers,
    Noel Buckley
    ------------------
    www.knollybikes.com

    Instead of PMs, please contact me here.

  4. #4
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    +1. CCDB coil inline been great and so far, very reliable.

  5. #5
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    Sounds like the way to go.

    Thanks fella's.

    btw: anyone looking for a Double Barrel Air

  6. #6
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    Running the IL Coil on my Endo. Love it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.o.d51 View Post
    I've got a CCDB Coil IL on my crbn wrdn and I love it. I was about 230lbs when I first got it and ran it with a 550lb spring. The thing was butter then and still is now, 2.5 years later with no service and more than a few miles. I haven't changed the settings too much since that initial setup, either. About all I'd do was slow down the rebound a few clicks for dh days, but then I ended up leaving it there haha. The bike does so well with that little shock on it, can't recommend it enough. I was mainly trail riding the bike, using it as a do-everything machine with dh days tossed in for good measure.
    Get that thing serviced, hombre! Seriously, if you send to CC directly for service, they'll run a dyno and tell you how clapped out it was. I felt the same about the one on my endorphin...and then got it renewed (at the 9mo mark to boot) and man, it was better than I had remembered!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Get that thing serviced, hombre! Seriously, if you send to CC directly for service, they'll run a dyno and tell you how clapped out it was. I felt the same about the one on my endorphin...and then got it renewed (at the 9mo mark to boot) and man, it was better than I had remembered!
    I would DEFINITELY like to know how clapped out it was, or is hahaha. A service certainly wouldn't hurt, that's for sure. Alas, I haven't touched the crbn since June when I got my hands on a Fugitive.

  9. #9
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    I converted my CCDB Air CS, to coil, it was a little more expensive than service, but really happy with the results, think the coil really suits the Warden, i got the smashpot conversion at the same time, def heavier, but a whole lot more fun on the down
    1. Knolly Warden (coil F&R)
    2. Yeti BigTop (rigid)

  10. #10
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    How would you describe the frame characteristics of the warden; linear or slightly progressive? I'm guessing linear due to my x2 set up.
    And how do find the cane creek spring calculator if you used it? Ie: Is it fairly accurate?
    I'm 96kg riding weight roughly and its recommending #500 enduro? or towards #550 if I was hitting free ride; which I'm not.

    I've never had a coil shock on a bike I've owned but I'm really curious to see how it could possibly enhance my ride!

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr2000gt View Post
    How would you describe the frame characteristics of the warden; linear or slightly progressive? I'm guessing linear due to my x2 set up.
    And how do find the cane creek spring calculator if you used it? Ie: Is it fairly accurate?
    I'm 96kg riding weight roughly and its recommending #500 enduro? or towards #550 if I was hitting free ride; which I'm not.

    I've never had a coil shock on a bike I've owned but I'm really curious to see how it could possibly enhance my ride!

    Thanks
    All of our bikes are fully progressive as far as spring rate goes. The amount of progression changes depending upon the application (i.e. trail bikes are the least and FR / DH bikes are the most), but they are still quite progressive compared to "the average" frame.

    We aim for a nice optimization between keeping the bike's "attitude" balanced, mid stroke support for the rider during climbing (when the shock is heavily sagged) and allowing the suspension kinematics to do most of the work for both initial stroke sensitivity and bottom out control.

    Cheers,
    Noel Buckley
    ------------------
    www.knollybikes.com

    Instead of PMs, please contact me here.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr2000gt View Post
    How would you describe the frame characteristics of the warden; linear or slightly progressive? I'm guessing linear due to my x2 set up.
    And how do find the cane creek spring calculator if you used it? Ie: Is it fairly accurate?
    I'm 96kg riding weight roughly and its recommending #500 enduro? or towards #550 if I was hitting free ride; which I'm not.

    I've never had a coil shock on a bike I've owned but I'm really curious to see how it could possibly enhance my ride!

    Thanks
    I was about your weight when I swapped from a 550 back to the 450 VALT spring the frame came with. I tossed an extra turn or so of preload on the spring and it was primo. Used the bike for everything. If there was something in front of me, chances are I'd hit it lol. I was never left wanting for a stiffer spring in any scenario.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the reply. ( stonking bike btw-kudos!)

    So, if I stuck a ccdb coil inline on my warden c; would you personally opt for a stand linear coil or a progressive coil?
    I appreciate its rider/riding style dependant, so tricky to speculate.
    I rarely do bike park. 90%+ of my riding is natural forest and mountains.

    Thanks in advance

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.o.d51 View Post
    I was about your weight when I swapped from a 550 back to the 450 VALT spring the frame came with. I tossed an extra turn or so of preload on the spring and it was primo. Used the bike for everything. If there was something in front of me, chances are I'd hit it lol. I was never left wanting for a stiffer spring in any scenario.
    Just the info I was after. So I take it you opted for the linear spring?
    I've ridden coil shocks but never owned a bike with one, so I'm eager not to make rooky mistakes. I can get a good deal on a damper only atm and dont want to end up buying 3 springs in an attempt to get it sorted.
    I've heard several people claim the spring calculator cane creek issues, leaves you under sprung?

    On a side note: how the hell do you delete posts on here!!?? I've got every option imaginable.... apart from delete...

    Thanks

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr2000gt View Post
    Just the info I was after. So I take it you opted for the linear spring?
    I've ridden coil shocks but never owned a bike with one, so I'm eager not to make rooky mistakes. I can get a good deal on a damper only atm and dont want to end up buying 3 springs in an attempt to get it sorted.
    I've heard several people claim the spring calculator cane creek issues, leaves you under sprung?

    On a side note: how the hell do you delete posts on here!!?? I've got every option imaginable.... apart from delete...

    Thanks
    The progressive springs were not around when I got my Warden. That being said, I don't think the bike needs one. It's progressive and handles bottom outs and hard hits really well. You could always snag a couple different weights before you settle on one and spend a little more on a VALT or another light coil option (have done this many times, fwiw).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr2000gt View Post
    How would you describe the frame characteristics of the warden; linear or slightly progressive? I'm guessing linear due to my x2 set up.
    And how do find the cane creek spring calculator if you used it? Ie: Is it fairly accurate?
    I'm 96kg riding weight roughly and its recommending #500 enduro? or towards #550 if I was hitting free ride; which I'm not.

    I've never had a coil shock on a bike I've owned but I'm really curious to see how it could possibly enhance my ride!

    Thanks
    I've been running coils mostly for the last 20 years. Air shocks have gotten very good, but they don't have that instant feedback "feel" you get from a coil. With a coil climbing through gravel chunk you can "feel" the limits of traction in those border line situations, where an air shock is more vague. Damping on air shock has been all over the place even from the same MFR (Fox). Some are horribly over damped with no way to adjust it out. Other are pretty damn good with plenty of adjustability depending on year model. I'm 140 lbs and very picky about my shock tuning. I used to shim my own dampers etc. until the the CCDB coil shocks came out that have a huge tuning range. I'm running a CCDB coil IL on my Warden C with a 350lb Ti Spring. The Warden linkage is progressive enough that I never feel any hard bottoming on 5-6 foot drops.

    Warden coil shock?-spidermtnwallride2.jpg

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr2000gt View Post
    Thanks for the reply. ( stonking bike btw-kudos!)

    So, if I stuck a ccdb coil inline on my warden c; would you personally opt for a stand linear coil or a progressive coil?
    I appreciate its rider/riding style dependant, so tricky to speculate.
    I rarely do bike park. 90%+ of my riding is natural forest and mountains.

    Thanks in advance
    I'll chime in here...

    Not on a Warden but on an Endo and spend a lot of time on different coiled dampers on my dh rig. On my Endo, with a CC Inline, I almost never bottom and I ride that bike probably well beyond its intended purpose.

    First off, on a properly sprung, damped shock, with the correct leverage curve - well, the whole thing about coils being not progressive enough is BS. I bottom shocks plenty and its by far more common on my air sprung dampers.

    Knolly bikes in general seem to have leverage curve that plays well with coils and I doubt a progressive coil would get you much benefit.

    Something _I think_ gives coils a much more controlled feel through the fast rough is this... going deep into the travel on a very progressive spring, like an air spring, creates a real lot of rebound force at the end stroke. All that rebound force at that end stroke probably overpowers the damper on the rebound. With a linear coil I don't think you have that same type of problem. You don't get that extreme progressive ramp at end travel with all that stored energy waiting to push back and overpower the rebound damper. I think that is what might give coils the much more planted, controlled feel in the rough - rather than the "poppy" feel of an air spring. So if you like that planted feel of a coil, and you have a nice progressive leverage curve like you'll get with a Knolly, running a progressive coil will go against that. But, the ramp you get from a progressive coil is still likely a lot less progressive than an air spring, so maybe it might be a happy medium for those looking for more "pop", less "plant", from their shock.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for taking the time to reply; that's cleared up a few queries I was concerned about.
    I wasnt sure if the coil inline was a token coil shock and not really capable of taking a beating but you've put rest to that.

    Also, I'll stick with a standard vault spring and 500# as the calculator suggested as it tallies with the numbers you've all posted.

    Thanks for all your help everyone.... time to spend some money!

  19. #19
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    I've had three rides on the warden with my new ccdb coil inline and what a shock- pun intended.

    It's so supple, soaking up all the chatter. It holds the mid stroke brilliantly; I never use the climb switch at all.

    Its transformed the bike and given me loads more confidence as it tracks fantastic.
    Its night and day compared to my x2.. in my opinion and I wish I'd made the switch years a go.

    For anyone that's considering the move to this shock; I found the cane creek spring calculator bang on for this bike. In conjunction with the advise from people on here ( thanks) I was confident the 500# spring would suit my 96kg riding weight.

    Thought an update may be helpful for anyone on the fence...and considering jumping over it..

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