Riding Chilcotins in North Van and Squamish- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Riding Chilcotins in North Van and Squamish

    Thought I'd share this in case you never make it to the home page. here's a link to my North Van / Whistler trip report.

    Such a great time! I know many of you have already been many times but to a BC noob it's hard to describe the overwhelming amount of awesomeness there is to be had there.

    Gotta get back soon.

    Photo Credit LeeL
    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8070760912/" title="224461_10151042277936626_1976078223_n by kentsaundra, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/8070760912_eed17c7bbf_c.jpg" width="747" height="800" alt="224461_10151042277936626_1976078223_n"></a>
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  2. #2
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    Outstanding ride report! What a great trip you had. I think I need to start now on convincing my non-biking wife we need to take a family trip to BC.

    Great stuff, thanks for sharing

  3. #3
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    I enjoyed your article KRob. Makes me glad to live in BC...

    Now I just need to get a Chilcotin...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  4. #4
    Just roll it......
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    Great article, KRob!! I like how you mentioned that post-whistler funk. There really is something to that - even for someone who's ridden up there for over a decade.

    My last lap from closing day.
    <iframe width="500" height="375" src="http://www.pinkbike.com/v/281385" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  5. #5
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    Good article!
    It's good to read about where I live from an outsider's perspective. Every so often I forget how great it is to live, work and ride here both winter and summer!

    The coach you had when you were in the bike park, Duncan, is a great guy! He's a friend of mine. He is an amazing rider and coach! He's an even better snowboarder! Crazy good!

    I only have one criticism of your article: it is how you say A-Line is beginner friendly. No no no no no... NO.
    Later in the article you relate how Crank It Up is where you got comfortable jumping then moved to A-Line and felt more improved. This is the point you should have highlighted!
    A-Line is not for beginners!

    Other than that, great write up!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    Great article, KRob!! I like how you mentioned that post-whistler funk. There really is something to that - even for someone who's ridden up there for over a decade.

    My last lap from closing day.
    <iframe width="500" height="375" src="http://www.pinkbike.com/v/281385" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Great vid eb. You know it's the last run of the day when you fall over for no apparent reason. I did the same thing up on Freight Train on my last run.

    My video looks really choppy so haven't tried editing it or anything yet, so it was fun to see some of the runs I did through a POV vid from someone else. (Schleyer was one of my favs!)
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I only have one criticism of your article: it is how you say A-Line is beginner friendly. No no no no no... NO.
    Later in the article you relate how Crank It Up is where you got comfortable jumping then moved to A-Line and felt more improved. This is the point you should have highlighted!
    A-Line is not for beginners!

    Other than that, great write up!
    Thanks.

    Good Point about A-line. It is a black diamond trail and by beginner I meant a relative jump trail rookie who is otherwise a competent rider and has worked up to it.

    And in that sense I think it is beginner friendly in that, other than the drop, there's nothing you can't just roll and no harm in coming up short..... but I can see why you don't want beginners on it. It gets crowded and dangerous with slower riders stopping on the tops of jumps (or after which actually happened to Andrew on one run... just about landed right on him.) and clogging up traffic, etc.


    Say Hi to Duncan for me. He was a huge help. Without that day of coaching I doubt I would've been hitting half the stuff by the end of my three days in the park.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  8. #8
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    Oh, and my good friend Wendy, one of the people you thank at the end of the article, isn't happy that you got where she works wrong! She told me you corresponded quite a bit. In fact, she's the one who probably set you up with all your tickets and rental bike for the bike park - all the behind the scenes organization.
    She doesn't work for Tourism Whistler. She works for WB.

    Her only consolation is that you spelled her name correctly!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob;
    And in that sense I think it is beginner friendly in that, other than the drop, there's nothing you can't just roll and no harm in coming up short..... but I can see why you don't want beginners on it. I
    The a-line rock drop? It's rollable.

  10. #10
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    Something Whistler newbies don't really understand is that when they start doing black diamond jump trails at lower speeds (A-line, Dirt Merchant, Freight Train), they become a danger not just to themselves, but to the more advanced rider coming up behind them on the blind corner. What's even worse is when they don't yield, which is actually part of the park rules.

  11. #11
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    I was neg propped for my comment about disagreeing with the info of only beginner ability needed for A-Line.

    No name was put to it.
    "Ya, of course A-line is for righteous dudes." is the neg prop comment.

    No, A-Line isn't for righteous dudes.
    It also isn't for people who can't jump large jumps at high speed. It's a serious safety issue. And, I feel that the article leads people to believe that A-Line is safe to ride regardless of your ability.

    KRob clarified his statement from the article and even admitted that he felt better on A-Line after he built skill and confidence on the intermediate/blue jump trail Crank It Up.
    He also mentioned that he witnessed a close call because of a slower rider almost being jumped on by a friend he was riding with on A-Line.




    Ah, the interwebz.
    I don't mind being neg propped but you could at least man up and put your name to it.


    Sorry for the derail.

  12. #12
    Bnerd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couch_Surfer View Post
    The a-line rock drop? It's rollable.
    So is the large GLC drop.
    Does that mean you should roll it?
    Nope.

  13. #13
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    According to the koolaid drinkers on this forum only a Chilcotin with full unobtanium coil front and rear sub 20lbs with full on 650 27.5ba Minions could possibly slay the gnar of A-line. Rep that
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

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    Hi Krob,

    Looks like you had a great time!

    I'm curious about your impressions on the Chilcotin sizing since you had some ride time on both a M and L and since you are coming from a large Delirium-T (I also have a large 2009 Delirium-T). I'm in that in between size, I'm 5'11" and an inseam of 34", but I like to ride with my seat not too high so don't need to worry about full leg extension for pedalling. I went with a large Delirium-T and have been happy with it, but I have always had that little bit of doubt as to whether I should have tried a medium as well... living in Australia is not an option for a easy test ride!

    From reading what you wrote, you seem to be happy with both sizes of the Chilcotin. Did the medium feel too short in the top tube? Was the large noticeably 'larger'?

    I wish I was in the market for a new bike right now... well I am lusting over the new Chilcotin and the Endorphin looks good too! I know I'll eventually get one of these as my next bike whenever the missus gives me permission (could be a few years lol) I love my Delirium-T (Marz 66 and CCDB coil) and it pedals amazingly well for a 42lb bike. Realistically I'm not getting anywhere close to pushing the limits of this bike, but it is so damn fun to ride, so I'm not too worried if I have to wait a while for a new bike!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    According to the koolaid drinkers on this forum only a Chilcotin with full unobtanium coil front and rear sub 20lbs with full on 650 27.5ba Minions could possibly slay the gnar of A-line. Rep that
    I got the expected reaction Did your electronic penis deflate? Keyboard riders hold your heads high
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd and fiends View Post
    Hi Krob,

    Looks like you had a great time!

    I'm curious about your impressions on the Chilcotin sizing since you had some ride time on both a M and L and since you are coming from a large Delirium-T (I also have a large 2009 Delirium-T).
    Like I said in the article, I was truly very comfortable on the medium while standing and descending, but it was a bit cramped for seated pedaling. However, it did have a pretty short stem and I'm sure it could be made to feel more stretched out by going with a bit longer stem and moving the seat back on the rails a bit.

    It really depends on your preferences and the type of riding you'll be doing most. If I were to buy a Chilcotin frame today, I would probably go with the large because I don't live in BC and most of my rides have longer, pedally climbs followed by more open, fast, bombing descents.

    I've always had the same niggling question about my large Delirium T about sizing as you. Because of the shorter seat tube and more compact overall feel I think the medium may be better for techncial descents, jumps, drops, and such, but in the end I'm sure the medium would be too small for climbing and put me way too far over the back wheel by time I got the seat high enough for full leg extension (which I do prefer for my long, relatively smooth climbs).

    Hope that helps.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  17. #17
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    So is the large GLC drop.
    Does that mean you should roll it?
    Nope.
    I REALLY wish they hadn't made that rollable.

    I almost ate sh!t coming up on someone who was going so slow I honestly thought they were going to the middle or small GLC. I gave them a ton of space coming into it,but caught the rider as I was just getting off the bridge and making the right corner. Low and behold, they basically came to a stop and rolled the left side. All the while, I had to slam on my brakes to avoid rear ending them, slid sideways and barely kept from launching off of the drop. I was both scared for my life and totally furious at the same time.

    There's a new bike park in Washington (Stevens Pass) and there's been a lot of discussions about total newbs on the blue jump trail stopping in total blind spots, in the middle of the trail and generally being a safety hazard to themselves and other riders. Hopefully, they'll get a green and some more blue trails opened up because there's nothing appropriate for beginners currently. No Easy Does It or anything where a complete beginner can feel like they're not going to get run down.

    As Rideeverything said, either Crank it Up or B Line is the appropriate trails for getting your jump skills dialed. Then pop over to A Line after your hitting tranny on CIU. I can tell you that Keira, Jerome Penny, and the rest of patrol have scraped more riders off of A Line who didn't have proper skill than on any trail on the hill. In fact, they used to have a couple of names for jumps because they were notorious for carnage....one was called "The Producer" because it had the highest crash rate on the hill. Both jumps have been tamed down so they're not as "bucky", but they still take folks out.

    KRob, I didn't call "Last Run", but I was pretty worn out from 4 days of riding.... I'm superstitious as h*ll about calling that on the bike or board! Again, a great writeup. Truly enjoyed reading it....I expect no less!! You're probably already scheming for your next time up there.

    Cheers,
    EB

  18. #18
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    double post
    Last edited by KRob; 10-16-2012 at 01:54 PM.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

    www.stuckinthespokes.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    According to the koolaid drinkers on this forum only a Chilcotin with full unobtanium coil front and rear sub 20lbs with full on 650 27.5ba Minions could possibly slay the gnar of A-line. Rep that
    Only if you get the carbon Enve wheels too.

    Pot stirrer. LOL.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Oh, and my good friend Wendy, one of the people you thank at the end of the article, isn't happy that you got where she works wrong! She told me you corresponded quite a bit. In fact, she's the one who probably set you up with all your tickets and rental bike for the bike park - all the behind the scenes organization.
    She doesn't work for Tourism Whistler. She works for WB.

    Her only consolation is that you spelled her name correctly!
    My apologies to Wendy (from WB!). She was very helpful.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    According to the koolaid drinkers on this forum only a Chilcotin with full unobtanium coil front and rear sub 20lbs with full on 650 27.5ba Minions could possibly slay the gnar of A-line. Rep that
    LeeL,

    You've got us all wrong. As true fanbois, we KNOW that an Endorphin, filled with cement, running on flat tires and caved-in rims could outrun any bike down ANY WBP trail, EXCEPT for another Knolly!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    I REALLY wish they hadn't made that rollable.

    I almost ate sh!t coming up on someone who was going so slow I honestly thought they were going to the middle or small GLC. I gave them a ton of space coming into it,but caught the rider as I was just getting off the bridge and making the right corner. Low and behold, they basically came to a stop and rolled the left side. All the while, I had to slam on my brakes to avoid rear ending them, slid sideways and barely kept from launching off of the drop. I was both scared for my life and totally furious at the same time.

    There's a new bike park in Washington (Stevens Pass) and there's been a lot of discussions about total newbs on the blue jump trail stopping in total blind spots, in the middle of the trail and generally being a safety hazard to themselves and other riders. Hopefully, they'll get a green and some more blue trails opened up because there's nothing appropriate for beginners currently. No Easy Does It or anything where a complete beginner can feel like they're not going to get run down.

    As Rideeverything said, either Crank it Up or B Line is the appropriate trails for getting your jump skills dialed. Then pop over to A Line after your hitting tranny on CIU. I can tell you that Keira, Jerome Penny, and the rest of patrol have scraped more riders off of A Line who didn't have proper skill than on any trail on the hill. In fact, they used to have a couple of names for jumps because they were notorious for carnage....one was called "The Producer" because it had the highest crash rate on the hill. Both jumps have been tamed down so they're not as "bucky", but they still take folks out.

    KRob, I didn't call "Last Run", but I was pretty worn out from 4 days of riding.... I'm superstitious as h*ll about calling that on the bike or board! Again, a great writeup. Truly enjoyed reading it....I expect no less!! You're probably already scheming for your next time up there.

    Cheers,
    EB
    Touche' on the "last run" jinx. I think that's where I got into trouble on Freight Train. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm there (which I hope is soon).

    The difficult thing about rating trail in Bike Parks is that they have to be liability conscious so even on an expert jump trail like A-line they have to dumb things down enough so there's a safer margin for error......while even as you do that it makes the trail more approachable for less skilled riders.....thus increasing the risk. It's a catch 22.

    What you say about Crank it up/Heart of Darkness is true but the problem I ran into on those was that when I was running a little faster and attempting to clear all the tables to work up to A-line I got mixed up with some really slow Beginner traffic that made that difficult too.

    I guess you just have to use common sense and good trail ettiquet and be aware that other, possibly slower or not that bright, or faster and not that aware, riders will be on the course with you. In a perfect world I'd have the place to myself and a few of my similarly skilled friends.
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  23. #23
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    Many teenagers drink because they are told that alcohol is for adults; which they interpret as "I'm an adult if I drink alcohol". Same thing with trail ratings that say "experts" or "experts only". Many dumbarses think that surviving an "experts only" trail ipso facto makes them an "expert".

    I see this all the time skiing. When there is a sign warning of lots of pain (e.g. "cliff area"), then I see it a lot fewer posers but I still see a fair number them. When the trail is known to have unavoidable features (e.g. large drops and chutes) I rarely see it populated with posers. I do occasionally see one or two but we're usually hanging on trees or rocks far enough off the path as not to get in the true "experts" way.

    My points:

    -- I really doubt KRob's article will add many noobes to A-line. The increase you will see is due to making the rock-drop rollable.

    -- Every bike trail will have noobes on it trying to get some "cred" unless it has a known feature that can't be avoided and that takes actual skills. If you want to take the noobes off of "expert" trails make the trail start with some unavoidable, difficult stunt.
    Last edited by TSC; 10-16-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Like I said in the article, I was truly very comfortable on the medium while standing and descending, but it was a bit cramped for seated pedaling. However, it did have a pretty short stem and I'm sure it could be made to feel more stretched out by going with a bit longer stem and moving the seat back on the rails a bit.

    It really depends on your preferences and the type of riding you'll be doing most. If I were to buy a Chilcotin frame today, I would probably go with the large because I don't live in BC and most of my rides have longer, pedally climbs followed by more open, fast, bombing descents.

    I've always had the same niggling question about my large Delirium T about sizing as you. Because of the shorter seat tube and more compact overall feel I think the medium may be better for techncial descents, jumps, drops, and such, but in the end I'm sure the medium would be too small for climbing and put me way too far over the back wheel by time I got the seat high enough for full leg extension (which I do prefer for my long, relatively smooth climbs).

    Hope that helps.
    Thanks KRob, that actually helped a lot. I do pedal a lot, so I'm glad I went with the large Delirium-T and would probably go with a large Chilcotin or Endorphin if a pot of money shows up.

    I'm still amazed at what the Delirium-T can climb and then when you go back down... wow!

  25. #25
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    Nice write up! I had a similar trip planned about 5 weeks ago but it ended in disaster. I crashed in Squamish on day 2 of 8 and broke my shoulder blade. Had to fly home before I got to see Whistler, North Shore, Tyax, etc. Redemption trip is in the works for me next year for sure...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Nice write up! I had a similar trip planned about 5 weeks ago but it ended in disaster. I crashed in Squamish on day 2 of 8 and broke my shoulder blade. Had to fly home before I got to see Whistler, North Shore, Tyax, etc. Redemption trip is in the works for me next year for sure...
    Just as we started down End Trails in Squamish, Noel mentioned that to me. "Yeah this descent is a little tricky, some rocky sections, some roots, some exposed razorbacks. Woodyak broke is shoulder blade on it."

    Uh, Ok. Let's go (I think).

    Sorry to hear about your crash woody. Heal soon. Noel did also make it perfectly clear that it wasn't due to any lack of skill on your part, just one of those freak deals where you clipped a bar on a tree.

    I was overly cautious the first couple of days on my trip for this very reason.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Nice write up! I had a similar trip planned about 5 weeks ago but it ended in disaster. I crashed in Squamish on day 2 of 8 and broke my shoulder blade. Had to fly home before I got to see Whistler, North Shore, Tyax, etc. Redemption trip is in the works for me next year for sure...
    Heal quickly and soundly.

    FWIW: A year ago, I broke my back on the way to Whistler and never made it either.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Just as we started down End Trails in Squamish, Noel mentioned that to me. "Yeah this descent is a little tricky, some rocky sections, some roots, some exposed razorbacks. Woodyak broke is shoulder blade on it."

    Uh, Ok. Let's go (I think).

    Sorry to hear about your crash woody. Heal soon. Noel did also make it perfectly clear that it wasn't due to any lack of skill on your part, just one of those freak deals where you clipped a bar on a tree.

    I was overly cautious the first couple of days on my trip for this very reason.
    BC has a way of...well, having it's way with people. Doesn't matter how good you are, the trails out there can take down anyone.

    VanGor got bit by a tree on the North Shore and launched himself off an uncomfortably high log ride, destroying his back on day 2 of our 10-day North van/Whistler epic trip in July. Lucky for him he went back in September, fully recovered, and got some serious redemption.

    BC is like that - you win some, you lose some. Hope you heal up soon and get another crack at it!

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