I wonder if Noel is working on a 29er to compete with the Following and Ripley LS.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I wonder if Noel is working on a 29er to compete with the Following and Ripley LS.

    I'm super intrigued by this new long front/short rear/low/slack trail 29er category that the Following, Canfield Riot, and now the Ripley LS (and to a lesser extent the Process 111 and Pivot 429Trail) are occupying. I think Noel has said in the past that he has no intention of building a 29er..... but it's gotta be hard to ignore the buzz around this genre.

    Any thoughts? I know my Interbike/Outerbike dance card will be filled with 29ers this year.
    Last edited by KRob; 06-30-2015 at 03:05 PM.
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    A knolly 29er would be one of my first picks. I loved my chili until I rode a 29er for the first time. I went from a fully built, avy-ed chili to a $700 used giant trance 29er, for wheelsize alone.

    Personally, I hope what is taking so long to get the endorphins out for release is the making of a new 29er.

  3. #3
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    Sign me up! I've really been enjoying my Banshee Phantom. I'll admit that I was previously a wagon wheel hater.

    Climbing with 29" wheels and Knolly's 4x4 suspension would be unstoppable.
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  4. #4
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    I would LOVE it if Knolly made an aggressive 29er!

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    I thought 27.5 killed both the 26 and the 29 wheel sizes. Just like video killed the radio star...

  6. #6
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    Add the Trek Remedy 29'er to that list. I recently rode with a local rider on the Shore...and was blown away by how smooth and fast he was on his Remedy. Also hucked some pretty big drops. He was complaining a bit about flexy wheels and tight corners and things...but I was breathing too heavily and shaking my arms loose to tell him to stfu.
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  7. #7
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    Yes PLEASE! My Warden needs a proper stablemate. I have looked hard at all of the bikes mentioned above. If I had to choose right now it would be the Canfield Riot due to it's geometry and aluminium frame. My main reservation is there could be more overlap between the Riot and Warden than I would like.

    Here in Oregon we have a good mix of terrain throughout the state. About half of our trails are moderate and beg for a fast short travel bike that can hold good momentum. I am sure the new Endorphin would be great on these trails, but I want that extra momentum that a 27.5 just can't match. It would be nice to have clearances for 2.4 29 and 27.5+ option built into the frame.

    There is so much I like about the Warden, it is hard not to imagine it's DNA infused into a short travel 29er. If there is no way this is going to materialize, please let us know.
    Last edited by bubba13; 07-01-2015 at 06:08 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Add the Trek Remedy 29'er to that list. I recently rode with a local rider on the Shore...and was blown away by how smooth and fast he was on his Remedy. Also hucked some pretty big drops. He was complaining a bit about flexy wheels and tight corners and things...but I was breathing too heavily and shaking my arms loose to tell him to stfu.
    Yes! It's a little longer travel/AM (like the Riot) but I rode the Remedy 29 at the Sedona MTB Festival and was really impressed. Climbed very well. Tires stayed glued to the ground (even on small jumps... didn't feel real "poppy"). Plush. Didn't feel awkward or 29ery in corners and absolutely steamrolled the chunk.

    Banshee Prime is another one.... although it did feel a little long and more awkward in tight spaces, it had most all the same qualities of some of the other new school 29ers.

    Impressive bike. The Boost 148 and Re' Activ shock seem to be the real deal.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    Yes PLEASE! My Warden needs a proper stablemate. I have looked hard at all of the bikes mentioned above. If I had to choose right now it would be the Canfield Riot due to it's geometry and aluminium frame. My main reservation is there could be more overlap between the Riot and Warden than I would like.

    Here in Oregon we have a good mix of terrain throughout the state. About half of our trails are moderate and beg for a fast short travel bike that can hold good momentum. I am sure the new Endorphin would be great on these trails, but I want that extra momentum that a 27.5 just can't match. It would be nice to have clearances for 2.4 29 and 27.5+ option built into the frame.

    There is so much I like about the Warden, it is hard not to imagine it's DNA infused into a short travel 29er. If there is no way this is going to materialize, please let us know.
    I think the Riot (much like the Remedy 29) will occupy the same space as the Warden for the most part. To complement the Warden I would go with the Mach 429 Trail or Ripley LS.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I think the Riot (much like the Remedy 29) will occupy the same space as the Warden for the most part. To complement the Warden I would go with the Mach 429 Trail or Ripley LS.
    Thats the way I will be going.
    Also I will test Process 111
    And wait for other 2016 models to come(Knolly?)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    I thought 27.5 killed both the 26 and the 29 wheel sizes. Just like video killed the radio star...
    Ok, I know this was said in jest (in part), but for a minute or 2 I want to poll this thread's readers. Is the 429Trail, Evil Following, Riot, and new RipleyLS, all pointing to a loud message that 27.5" isn't pushing 29ers out of the picture any time soon?

    I mean, these companies, like Knolly, don't have gobs of $ to waist on designs for dead-end platforms. Last year, there was much hand-ringing on the future or 29. Can we put this uncertainty to rest? I read KRob getting pumped about outerbike's 29er offering, and see it as yet another signal that 29er are still generating buzz and consumer spending.

    This is a good thing IMO, despite more sku's for the lbs to stock. With lesser fickleness, a guy like Noel could build a 29er w/o fear of havin the next Betamax...

  12. #12
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    I'm replying to this thread with the fear that my reply will kill the thread as it seems to often do (i.e. the "santa thread" from a few weeks past). I'm just one guy, so debate away regardless if I reply or not - ha!

    Re: 29er: I think this would make a ton of sense for Knolly and we can absolutely do it "the Knolly way", no doubt about it. Obviously, it would fit in as a lighter duty bike below the upcoming Endorphin in travel / application. Timeline would be a while because - as I mentioned a week or so ago - while we've been very quiet lately, we're actually smoking busy with new products right now. There is a lot going on, but again, first things first, and that's getting Endorphins into the market...

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    I'm replying to this thread with the fear that my reply will kill the thread as it seems to often do (i.e. the "santa thread" from a few weeks past). I'm just one guy, so debate away regardless if I reply or not - ha!

    Re: 29er: I think this would make a ton of sense for Knolly and we can absolutely do it "the Knolly way", no doubt about it. Obviously, it would fit in as a lighter duty bike below the upcoming Endorphin in travel / application. Timeline would be a while because - as I mentioned a week or so ago - while we've been very quiet lately, we're actually smoking busy with new products right now. There is a lot going on, but again, first things first, and that's getting Endorphins into the market...

    Cheers,
    Thanks for responding Noel! And thanks for opening the door a crack. Now that we know it's a possibility, we can continue to debate what form it should take. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts. ("Just one guy".... ha, ha. That's funny)

    I believe it should be 115-125mm travel designed around a 120-130mm fork, but approved for 140mm fork. It should be reasonably slack but not crazy. Say 67-68 degrees with long reach and short chainstays (Is 17.0" doable with the Fourx4 linkage?). It should have ample tire clearance for 3.0-3.5" 27+ tires. Frame weight should be around 6lbs in alloy and 5.5 lbs in carbon.


    In the mean time, yes, keep that Endorphin coming. Can't wait!
    Last edited by KRob; 07-06-2015 at 04:08 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Ha ha - frame design by consensus!
    The reality is that we're very much aware of this emerging trend for fun xc / trail 29ers and this would fit nicely into the Knolly linage: frames like this are perfect for BC Bike race and similar events, while still being usable for a wide variety of trails.

    Re: chainstay length: because Knolly frame designs don't have "mini links" between the rear swingarm and the front triangle, we can achieve among the shortest chainstay lengths possible as there is very little interfering with the tire and chainstay pivot. At a certain point, chainstays can be "too short" especially for bikes that do need to have very good climbing characteristics, so there is a balance to be struck for sure; but it's all possible.
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  15. #15
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    Exciting stuff! I've recently built up an Evil Following and I haven't had a chance to give it a proper shake down but from the trails I've ridden I'm in love. I've got a 26" endorphin here at home which is the wife's bike so it's a bit small for me, but I have ridden it and there is a pretty big difference in feel for Knolly to justify putting a slack short travel 29er under the Endorphin.

    I'd certainly be interested, especially if you can avoid the issues with the STA that Evil and Canfield have to contend with to keep the chain stays short.

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  16. #16
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    27.5 able to accept 3" tires, mid travel would be better

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    Personally, I've been waiting to see if knolly brings out a 29er, I've been drooling over the Lenz Lunchbox and the Specialized enduro. I'd really like to see/buy something in the 140-150 range.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    Personally, I've been waiting to see if knolly brings out a 29er, I've been drooling over the Lenz Lunchbox and the Specialized enduro. I'd really like to see/buy something in the 140-150 range.
    Hmm. Maybe you're right. A 29er Chilcotin replacement more in line with the Riot might be awesome. 140-150mm travel; 67.5- 66.5 degree adjustable HA; 13.3" BB height; 16.9"-17.3" adjustable CS length; 74.5 degree effective STA. Clearance for 29+ tires; 160 fork. Boo Yah!

    What do others think?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    Exciting stuff! I've recently built up an Evil Following and I haven't had a chance to give it a proper shake down but from the trails I've ridden I'm in love. I've got a 26" endorphin here at home which is the wife's bike so it's a bit small for me, but I have ridden it and there is a pretty big difference in feel for Knolly to justify putting a slack short travel 29er under the Endorphin.

    I'd certainly be interested, especially if you can avoid the issues with the STA that Evil and Canfield have to contend with to keep the chain stays short.

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    The Riot is similar in seat angle compared to the Warden. The Following is much slacker at 72.7 degrees. Not really an apples to apples comparison.

    The Riot I think has the best 29er geometry on paper regardless of frame material. I personally prefer a steeper seat angle to help keep the front wheel planted on a slacker head angled bike.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    Personally, I've been waiting to see if knolly brings out a 29er, I've been drooling over the Lenz Lunchbox and the Specialized enduro. I'd really like to see/buy something in the 140-150 range.
    You need a Canfield Riot...that is until Knolly rolls one out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You need a Canfield Riot...that is until Knolly rolls one out
    I've considered it, but to be honest. I've never felt like the mini link bikes have the all around plushness that I get when riding a good single pivot or horst link setup. It's all personal preference, and if I get a chance to try a riot out, I'd still love to give it a go.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You need a Canfield Riot...that is until Knolly rolls one out
    Indeed. That looks like it's going to be a killer bike..... and if I were as big a bike whore as you and Blatant I'd already have one on order in addition to the 27.5 Endorphin I already have on order.
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    Haha. No shame my whore-ness

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    The Riot is similar in seat angle compared to the Warden. The Following is much slacker at 72.7 degrees. Not really an apples to apples comparison.

    The Riot I think has the best 29er geometry on paper regardless of frame material. I personally prefer a steeper seat angle to help keep the front wheel planted on a slacker head angled bike.
    I've got a trip planned for this weekend that's going to involve a heap of climbing and I've had knee issues before so it'll soon tell me if the slack STA on the bike will haunt me. If so, the Canfield's on the list as well as a number of other exciting bikes that looks like being announced soon!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Hmm. Maybe you're right. A 29er Chilcotin replacement more in line with the Riot might be awesome. 140-150mm travel; 67.5- 66.5 degree adjustable HA; 13.3" BB height; 16.9"-17.3" adjustable CS length; 74.5 degree effective STA. Clearance for 29+ tires; 160 fork. Boo Yah!

    What do others think?
    I think that's too much travel--I think 120mm is a better suit for 29ers. I'm riding a 120mm Shinobi with a 150mm Pike on it and it's hard to imagine needing more travel than that for aggressive trail riding. Anything that requires more travel than that to ride would probably be better ridden on smaller wheels IMO and there are already lots of good choices in the Knolly line up to fill those niches.

    Having the adjustable CS length would be really cool for running 27.5+ wheels and it would give you an option to run a front derailleur on a 29 without tire rub, OR have a short chainstay and run a 1x setup. I was a big fan of the adjustable CS on my old DT. That being said, I think I was one of the only people who regularly adjusted mine so for most people that wouldn't be worth the additional weight.

    I'm not sure about the 29er+ either. I think you'll see a lot of aggressive 27.5+ tires, but the 29er+ will remain more on the Knard side of the equation of traction. A 29+ tire that is built for truly aggressive riding would be a real boat anchor (as if burly 27.5+ tires aren't heavy enough!).

  26. #26
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    At 5'9.5" my issue with 29ers is that stack height too high. My medium Warden fits well and it's lower than average stack was one of the features that swayed me.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian View Post
    I think that's too much travel--I think 120mm is a better suit for 29ers. I'm riding a 120mm Shinobi with a 150mm Pike on it and it's hard to imagine needing more travel than that for aggressive trail riding. Anything that requires more travel than that to ride would probably be better ridden on smaller wheels IMO and there are already lots of good choices in the Knolly line up to fill those niches.

    Having the adjustable CS length would be really cool for running 27.5+ wheels and it would give you an option to run a front derailleur on a 29 without tire rub, OR have a short chainstay and run a 1x setup. I was a big fan of the adjustable CS on my old DT. That being said, I think I was one of the only people who regularly adjusted mine so for most people that wouldn't be worth the additional weight.

    I'm not sure about the 29er+ either. I think you'll see a lot of aggressive 27.5+ tires, but the 29er+ will remain more on the Knard side of the equation of traction. A 29+ tire that is built for truly aggressive riding would be a real boat anchor (as if burly 27.5+ tires aren't heavy enough!).
    Good points kristian especially about the 29+ tires. I think 140mm rear travel could be made to feel pretty good as an all-rounder, but you're right, 150mm is starting to get into Chilcotin/Delirium territory as far as capability. I'm still on the fence as to whether a wagon wheeled bike of that ilk could be made to feel better than a smaller wheeled bike in the same vein. I haven't ridden the Riot yet, but the Remedy 29 was fairly agile in tight stuff.

    Where a bike like that would fit in the Knolly line up may be the bigger question. Would it make the Warden obsolete? By the time it actually came out maybe the Warden would need to be phased out anyway. Who knows where the whole wheel size debate is going? I can't even imagine how bike manufacturers look far enough ahead to predict what they'll need in 2-3 years when the bikes they're designing now will actually come out.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Hmm. Maybe you're right. A 29er Chilcotin replacement more in line with the Riot might be awesome. 140-150mm travel; 67.5- 66.5 degree adjustable HA; 13.3" BB height; 16.9"-17.3" adjustable CS length; 74.5 degree effective STA. Clearance for 29+ tires; 160 fork. Boo Yah!

    What do others think?
    Now you're starting to get my attention.. part of the problem in the past with 29" geometry for me as been the very poor performance of the dinky / small shocks they use. Start with 150-155mm rear and zero stack 140-145mm front..
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  29. #29
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    200x57 at a minimum please.

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    I cant see a 150mm 29er being nearly as successful as a 120-130mm. How many WFO's do you see compared to RIP's or JET's? How many enduros do you see compared to stumpys, cambers or epics?

    A 120-130mm (140mm absolute max) knolly with ~67 head angle and <17" CS will captivate not only the new breed of aggressive, short travel 29er riders, but of current "normal" 29er riders thinking to themselves that their camber or tallboy might not be enough, and sacrificing 10-20mm of more travel for far better DH performance could be worth it. 150mm is overkill for this platform IMO.

    Just my 2c.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Who knows where the whole wheel size debate is going? I can't even imagine how bike manufacturers look far enough ahead to predict what they'll need in 2-3 years when the bikes they're designing now will actually come out.
    Did you see the new Lyrik that was just released? No 26" wheel option--just 27.5 and 29 for RockShox's only real freeride fork left. It is going to be harder and harder for bike companies to keep the 26er alive if there are no fork options for them. It will be interesting to see if Fox follows this move. They are selling the Charger damper as a retrofit for 26ers at least...

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    I think a lot of the short travel 29ers are coming out, because of the smooth flow trails being built and pushed as the next great thing. And on those trails 120mm is great, but there are still a lot of rough tech trails out there. I'm riding a 130mm now, and when it gets going another 10-15mm of travel would be great.

    I'm not saying it's for everyone, but since we were just throwing ideas we'd like to see out there. I'd love to get on another knolly, but don't see myself going back to smaller wheels anytime soon.

  33. #33
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    The rumor is that Evil is soon to be releasing a 160mm 29er. I can't fathom needing such a bike.

    The Riot is at the upper end of what I'd consider feasible for my uses.

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    The 29" wheel creates early rump interference on steep descents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian View Post
    Did you see the new Lyrik that was just released? No 26" wheel option--just 27.5 and 29 for RockShox's only real freeride fork left. It is going to be harder and harder for bike companies to keep the 26er alive if there are no fork options for them. It will be interesting to see if Fox follows this move. They are selling the Charger damper as a retrofit for 26ers at least...
    I didn't see that. Interesting. I'm still running the Lyrik on my Chilcotin (with an Avy cartridge). Guess I'd better hang on to that one.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    The rumor is that Evil is soon to be releasing a 160mm 29er. I can't fathom needing such a bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKudo View Post
    The 29" wheel creates early rump interference on steep descents.
    29er Podium anyone? :0)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I wonder if Noel is working on a 29er to compete with the Following and Ripley LS.-lenz-pbj.jpg  

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'm still running the Lyrik on my Chilcotin (with an Avy cartridge). Guess I'd better hang on to that one.
    Yeah, I have a Lyrik sitting in a box that I used on my Chili before replaced it with a Pike. I thought about trying to sell it, but it might be worth having a back up fork since I have no intention of ever getting rid of my Chili.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    I think a lot of the short travel 29ers are coming out, because of the smooth flow trails being built and pushed as the next great thing. And on those trails 120mm is great, but there are still a lot of rough tech trails out there. I'm riding a 130mm now, and when it gets going another 10-15mm of travel would be great.

    I'm not saying it's for everyone, but since we were just throwing ideas we'd like to see out there. I'd love to get on another knolly, but don't see myself going back to smaller wheels anytime soon.
    True. As long as the trail isn't too chunky/rough (new school flow trails), a bike's down ability is more a function of geometry than travel...... but there are plenty of trails still around where an extra inch or two of travel would come in handy. For instance, you don't see too many WC DH bikes with less than 7-8" of travel.

    Having said that, I also think that bigger wheels and tires (B+) help make up for that lack in travel some too, unless we're talking about big drops.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    True. As long as the trail isn't too chunky/rough (new school flow trails), a bike's down ability is more a function of geometry than travel...... but there are plenty of trails still around where an extra inch or two of travel would come in handy. For instance, you don't see too many WC DH bikes with less than 7-8" of travel.

    Having said that, I also think that bigger wheels and tires (B+) help make up for that lack in travel some too, unless we're talking about big drops.
    I know that you've seen this and I agree.



    If the geometry is right, the travel is an afterthought to some extent. I'd be interested in the Riot even if it had less travel (~120mm). As long as the extra travel doesn't have a negative effect, why not have some room for rider error

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    I think a lot of the short travel 29ers are coming out, because of the smooth flow trails being built and pushed as the next great thing. And on those trails 120mm is great, but there are still a lot of rough tech trails out there. I'm riding a 130mm now, and when it gets going another 10-15mm of travel would be great.
    Agreed, @ 120mm heats onto a jackhammer and "flow" trails are fine on an agressive hardtail anyway.. I just don't see much of a need for that little travel over a hardtail and it has nothing to do w/ it being a 29" wheel
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian View Post
    Did you see the new Lyrik that was just released? No 26" wheel option--just 27.5 and 29 for RockShox's only real freeride fork left. It is going to be harder and harder for bike companies to keep the 26er alive if there are no fork options for them. It will be interesting to see if Fox follows this move. They are selling the Charger damper as a retrofit for 26ers at least...
    Getting off topic a little, but my thoughts are that it isn't the 26" wheel that is heading towards obsolescence, but the old standard for 26*2.4 tyres. I think the future of the 26" wheel is in wide rims and 2.8+ tyres being run in frames/forks made for 27.5" wheels. I agree with Kristian that 29+ tyres are going to be too big and heavy to be anything more than niche, but I believe there is good potential for 26+ and 27.5+ in 27.5 and 29" frames respectively. I'm not sure what the Warden's clearance is like for a fat 26" tyre, but I would really like to see how it works. I'd certainly hope that any future Knolly 29er would have enough room to run a 27.5*3 tyre.

    Seeing the pics Mr Turner posted of his wife's Burner running 26*2.8 tyres nearly swayed my decision, but in the end I went with the Warden, which hopefully will be waiting for me when I get back home on Friday!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    True. As long as the trail isn't too chunky/rough (new school flow trails), a bike's down ability is more a function of geometry than travel......
    I didn't used to believe this, but now that I've owned/ridden a slack, aggressive 29er AM HT I believe to be very much true. Short rear end, long front end, steep STA = really fun bike.

    B+ on a 29er HT takes the fun factor up as well (if really big volume tires is your thing)
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    I've considered it, but to be honest. I've never felt like the mini link bikes have the all around plushness that I get when riding a good single pivot or horst link setup. It's all personal preference, and if I get a chance to try a riot out, I'd still love to give it a go.
    I haven't ridden the Riot obviously, but every Canfield Bros bike I have ridden (One, Jedi) has been very plush..... and I like plush bikes.
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    I can't wait for mine to show up!

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  45. #45
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    So I'm only half joking about the 29er Podium. Even though my stated (selfish) preference is for a 115-125mm travel bike, I think it would be cool if Noel comes out with something really groundbreaking. At very least, he should go straight to carbon on this 29er (no alloy option). I mean Kona and Banshee have been making alloy short travel, long/low/slack 29ers for a couple years now. By time the Knolly shows up it will be passe'. How will it distinguish itself other than it's a Knolly?

    What's the next big thing? That's one reason I think a 140-150 travel 29er with adjustable geometry and room for 27+ tires might be the way to go (even if it makes the Warden and Chilcotin obsolete). But not like long travel 29ers of the past (WFO). It has to be maneuverable in tight quarters, light on its feet, well-behaved in the air, and absolutely crush the gnar. I don't ask for much.
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  46. #46
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    I went off the ranch this year, following just came in for a build.

    TIG Man and a couple of us other Knolly guys have been poking this bee's nest for awhile now. I had a Turner Sultan with a 140 Fox 34 and 120 rear, the bike couldn't hold up to my riding and the wheelbase with 18.2'' stays was cumbersome in new england tight trail, but it was so poppy and fun and capable (until the chainstay, seat tube, chainstay broke).

    Until Knolly comes with the 29er 120mm capable trail bike with snappy goodness, I'll see how the evil plays out.

  47. #47
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    I'm trying to be patient but I'm not getting any younger !

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post

    TIG Man and a couple of us other Knolly guys have been poking this bee's nest for awhile now.
    Oh yeah, I forgot about this thread. It kinda died for lack of interest (or lack of encouragement) in 2012. You guys were all over the 29er thing before new-school 29er was cool (or at least before I was on board).
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    Looks like the Endorphin has started hitting customers and the Delirium is well on its way.

    Now its time to get into the 29er game Knolly! Keen to see what you guys can come up with

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  50. #50
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    +1

    Excited to see what Noel comes up with in this category..... but first I can't wait for my Endorphin! Won't be long now that they're shipping.
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    I'm seriously tempted to buy a new Endorphin. Currently on Evils 'The Following' but my wife's got a 26" Endorphin and I love the way it rides.

    I think I'd be better off building a Warden to complement my Following and wait and see what Noel does with a 29er

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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache1 View Post
    27.5 able to accept 3" tires, mid travel would be better
    Yup. Make that 3.25" x 27.5 tires. You could run it mid-fat or 29er for a multi-purpose weapon.
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  53. #53
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    I own a Knolly Endorphin (26", XL) and recently bought a Salsa Horsethief (SplitPivot version, L) and must say that I'm pleasantly surprised The Horsethief feels very lively and I don't feel like riding a bus at all

    The Endorphin is still my choice when the going gets rough. The Endorphin is shockingly "stable" even during rougher alpine descends.

    Anyway... a Knolly 29er would be awesome.

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    I too would be interested in a Knolly 29er! On a Kona Honzo right now - 6" 6" means I'm in XL territory and my height works well with big wheels. And I'll be honest - my riding style and typical trails do not merit anything with over 140mm of travel in any wheel size.

    As a industrial design guy I really appreciate Noel's approach to these bikes, and his candor when he posts on here. And I recently enjoyed the Dirt Rag article on Amanda Batty - accompanied by great photos of her on a Warden. So, bring on the wagon wheels!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjulier View Post
    I too would be interested in a Knolly 29er! On a Kona Honzo right now - 6" 6" means I'm in XL territory and my height works well with big wheels. And I'll be honest - my riding style and typical trails do not merit anything with over 140mm of travel in any wheel size.

    As a industrial design guy I really appreciate Noel's approach to these bikes, and his candor when he posts on here. And I recently enjoyed the Dirt Rag article on Amanda Batty - accompanied by great photos of her on a Warden. So, bring on the wagon wheels!
    Great photos by Photo John Shafer. Good to see John getting some photos published. He also had the cover shot for that issue (which I missed because I somehow let my subscription lapse, D'oh.)

    And, yes, a Noel-built 29er in the 115-125mm range will be just the ticket for tall folks with a love for industrial design.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I believe it should be 115-125mm travel designed around a 120-130mm fork, but approved for 140mm fork. It should be reasonably slack but not crazy. Say 67-68 degrees with long reach and short chainstays (Is 17.0" doable with the Fourx4 linkage?). It should have ample tire clearance for 3.0-3.5" 27+ tires. Frame weight should be around 6lbs in alloy and 5.5 lbs in carbon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache1 View Post
    27.5 able to accept 3" tires, mid travel would be better
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Yup. Make that 3.25" x 27.5 tires. You could run it mid-fat or 29er for a multi-purpose weapon.
    I couldn't agree more I'm not looking for something to replace or compare to my Endorphin
    more like something that is different and justifies another bike.. A 120mm-130mm 29'er with the versatility to run B+ tires
    slack, short stack, long reach, short chainstays, 1x only, Lots of clearance... Boost hub spec

    Some of the most popular bikes I saw demoed at Interbike were the new Scott Genius LT and Divinci Hendrix. And, the response was pretty positive overall
    Common drawback was tire reliability when running the low pressures that make the whole B+ thing work
    While I would really like the option of B+ ..
    Honestly, I would probably be running a 2.3 29'er setup the most.

  57. #57
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    With Canfield and Lenz pushing chainstays well below 17" I'd like to see Knolly mix it up with a short CS 29er. I don't see any need for another 17"+ CS bike.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    With Canfield and Lenz pushing chainstays well below 17" I'd like to see Knolly mix it up with a short CS 29er. I don't see any need for another 17"+ CS bike.
    I agree. If he's going to jump in, it oughta be all in. But I'm wondering where Noel will go on CS length. He has expressed concern about the trade offs with CS that are too short. Not sure what too short is, but having ridden quite a few of these 29ers in this new genre, I'd like to see this bike have some aggressive, BC-worthy 29er geometry. ( Hope it's not too XC.)

    I'm thinking:
    CS length 16.75 to 16.9
    HA: 67-68 deg
    BB: 12.9 to 13.2"
    Room for wide rims and 27 plus tires.

    Unfortunately a frame like this would step on the Endorphin's toes a little but maybe rather than investing in carbon molds for the Endo (maybe it's too late for this suggestion) go straight to a carbon short/aggressive 29er? I certainly don't envy the 2nd guessing and future-telling gifts needed to run a bike company these days with changing "standards" and such.
    Same Knolly goodness on the reach and stack (long and low).
    Travel 115-125mm
    Carbon frame sub 5.5lbs. with shock.

    Having said all that, I've been surprised how 29er like my new Endorhpin feels in some ways: fit, roll-over, straightline stability etc. I think this is attributable to the longer reach and longer wheelbase, but with slack HA and short stays it still rips the steeps and rails the turns in a very Following-like fashion. I'll bet if I ran a 29er wheel on front it would feel very similar.
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  59. #59
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    My turn

    Knolly 29er in Medium want list:

    29er wheels
    Carbon
    150mm forks
    135mm rear wheel travel
    17' chain stays
    66.5 head angle
    74 seat angle
    420-430 reach
    1175 wheelbase

    Aggressive.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    My turn

    Knolly 29er in Medium want list:

    29er wheels
    Carbon
    150mm forks
    135mm rear wheel travel
    17' chain stays
    66.5 head angle
    74 seat angle
    420-430 reach
    1175 wheelbase

    Aggressive.
    Sounds like you want a Canfield Riot!

    Looking forward to seeing what Knolly has in store for us, if they are in fact working on a 29er. A lot more bikes starting to enter the market going for that aggressive short travel 29er market.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    Sounds like you want a Canfield Riot!
    Not if you want 17" CS.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Not if you want 17" CS.
    Or carbon.

    A carbon Riot however...

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    Sounds like you want a Canfield Riot!
    Yeah they look good!

    I liked the Kona Process 111, it shreds! Give it a carbon frame make it a little slacker with longer forks it would be an incredible bike, i think this is where Knolly should go and not bother about crossing over with their other bikes. And release it before carbon versions of new bikes like the Nukeproof 290 appear. As someone said above, the climbing ability of 29 + 4x4 coupled with the way 4x4 behaves on the way down it could be a diamond if done right.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Yeah they look good!

    I liked the Kona Process 111, it shreds! Give it a carbon frame make it a little slacker with longer forks it would be an incredible bike, i think this is where Knolly should go and not bother about crossing over with their other bikes. And release it before carbon versions of new bikes like the Nukeproof 290 appear. As someone said above, the climbing ability of 29 + 4x4 coupled with the way 4x4 behaves on the way down it could be a diamond if done right.

    Show me 115/120mm travel with 120 forks, 66.5/67.5 HA, 74.5/75.5 ESTA, short CS, about 460 mm reach, aluminium,RAW color...AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim0791 View Post

    Show me 115/120mm travel with 120 forks, 66.5/67.5 HA, 74.5/75.5 ESTA, short CS, about 460 mm reach, aluminium,RAW color...AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!
    Sounds similar to a Smuggler.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Sounds similar to a Smuggler.
    Hmm... but 4x4?
    I love my warden sooo much and like to have aggressive short travel wagon wheeled 4x4 stablemate for him

  67. #67
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    Wink

    Keep lowering the travel to what most other 29" out ther has,,Fine then..135mm front 151mm rear
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I agree. If he's going to jump in, it oughta be all in. But I'm wondering where Noel will go on CS length. He has expressed concern about the trade offs with CS that are too short. Not sure what too short is, but having ridden quite a few of these 29ers in this new genre, I'd like to see this bike have some aggressive, BC-worthy 29er geometry. ( Hope it's not too XC.)
    I've chatted to a fair number of folks riding sub-17" CS 29er FS bikes and not one person has complained about the short CS lengths. In fact all I am hearing is the shorter the better.

    That's why I can't see the point in building something new that's 17" or longer. That segment of the market is well served with lots of options.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've chatted to a fair number of folks riding sub-17" CS 29er FS bikes and not one person has complained about the short CS lengths. In fact all I am hearing is the shorter the better.

    That's why I can't see the point in building something new that's 17" or longer. That segment of the market is well served with lots of options.
    +1 on the CS length. Forget about a front derailleur and build something amazing.

    On that note I would like to see a split between aluminum frames and carbon. Keep the aluminum frames simple and cost effective with no internal routing available except for the stealth dropper. I think customers that want aluminum would prefer a lower price without the frills. Do what ever fits the market for the expensive carbon frames.
    Last edited by bubba13; 11-11-2015 at 03:49 PM.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've chatted to a fair number of folks riding sub-17" CS 29er FS bikes and not one person has complained about the short CS lengths. In fact all I am hearing is the shorter the better.

    That's why I can't see the point in building something new that's 17" or longer. That segment of the market is well served with lots of options.
    Agreed. All of my rides on sub-17" chain stay full-suspension 29ers have been eye-opening and fun. I'm sure there's a point where shorter is not better though, or at least has too many trade offs. What that is I don't know. <16.5"? <16.0"? Not even sure what all the trade offs would be.
    Last edited by KRob; 11-11-2015 at 03:06 PM.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Agreed. All of my rides on sub-17" CS 29ers have been eye-opening and fun. I'm sure there's point where shorter is not better though, or at least has too many trade offs. What that is I don't know. <16.5"? <16.0"? Not even sure what all the trade offs would be.
    As long as companies keep making shorter and shorter CS bikes and they are well received we'll keep pushing that area of knowledge. I don't think short CS bikes are the best and only solution for 29ers, but we have a lot of choices in the 17"+ range which is why it would be great to see a Knolly 29er that was in the range of the Riot and Lenz bikes to get another great choice.
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  72. #72
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    I think that having a short chainstay coupled with a steeper seat angle is important as well. It helps keep the front wheel weighted on climbs. Also the short CS allows for a longer front center/reach without the wheelbase getting school bus long.

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  73. #73
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    IME, a 17.0" chainstay on a 29er is NOT short, it should be "normal". 29er wheels are already more stable than 26, so the doesn't need to be more more stable by having longer stays than a 26er. This is the stigma we need to overcome. I spent the last 2.5 seasons on an E29 and the geometry was great, just no good reason for 18" chainstays except laziness.
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  74. #74
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    I agree 1000%

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  75. #75
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    Part of the weight balance/wheelie popping thing has to do with bb height, those that want a higher bb will have to deal with longer cs, light front or some other trade offs.
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Part of the weight balance/wheelie popping thing has to do with bb height, those that want a higher bb will have to deal with longer cs, light front or some other trade offs.
    I've got a Mach 6 with 16.9" CS [not super short,but not limo], but also a slack STA. The front wheel gets fairly light on steep techy climbs. Frankly I love it. It never gets hung up on tech and if I need to pick it up and move it over to a different line it's just a little extra ompf into the cranks away from lifting off as I climb seated. The back wheel is heavy for epic traction.

    I'm riding the smaller of the two sizes that would fit me [L or XL]. If I wanted a more planted front end I could size up the frame.

    On a Knolly one would expect a steeper STA and a longer front centre than my bike both of which would put more weight on the front wheel. If it also had High/Low adjustable geo that's a 3rd way to tweak the climbing feel.
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  77. #77
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've got a Mach 6 with 16.9" CS [not super short,but not limo], but also a slack STA. The front wheel gets fairly light on steep techy climbs. Frankly I love it. It never gets hung up on tech and if I need to pick it up and move it over to a different line it's just a little extra ompf into the cranks away from lifting off as I climb seated. The back wheel is heavy for epic traction.

    I'm riding the smaller of the two sizes that would fit me [L or XL]. If I wanted a more planted front end I could size up the frame.

    On a Knolly one would expect a steeper STA and a longer front centre than my bike both of which would put more weight on the front wheel. If it also had High/Low adjustable geo that's a 3rd way to tweak the climbing feel.
    Having owned a plethora of Cocalis frames (back to Moto-lite) I hear exacty what you're saying. The latest mk, like your mach 6, is the only one I don't think i've demoed..it sounds like fun and similar philosophy, especially the in between sizing up/down part.

    Kind of guessing the same if there's gonna be a 29" Knolly (steeper sta, longer front), just think a 29" would benefit from a touch less front travel, and 150mm rear is a sweet spot for FS.. it can handle chunk and nothing negative would come with it (and wouldn't be any heavier than a 130mm)
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    I'm replying to this thread with the fear that my reply will kill the thread as it seems to often do (i.e. the "santa thread" from a few weeks past). I'm just one guy, so debate away regardless if I reply or not - ha!

    Re: 29er: I think this would make a ton of sense for Knolly and we can absolutely do it "the Knolly way", no doubt about it. Obviously, it would fit in as a lighter duty bike below the upcoming Endorphin in travel / application. Timeline would be a while because - as I mentioned a week or so ago - while we've been very quiet lately, we're actually smoking busy with new products right now. There is a lot going on, but again, first things first, and that's getting Endorphins into the market...

    Cheers,
    Smoking busy is right. Now that the Endorphin, Delirium and soon to be Carbon Warden are reality...SSSShorttravel29Knolly?
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  79. #79
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    140mm would be a good amount of travel to shoot for.
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  80. #80
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    My interest in B+ compatibility is gone so as long as it can clear a true 2.4" 29er tire with mud I'm happy.
    Safe riding,

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  81. #81
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    Just get the Riot, Vik.

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Just get the Riot, Vik.
    Until there is a carbon Riot I have enough will power to hold off. I've got limited bike funds so I need to wait for the right bike that ticks all my boxes. Whatever I buy will be kept 5yrs+.

    I expect Knolly will have a 29er on the market by then and I'll be keen to see how it stacks up.
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Until there is a carbon Riot I have enough will power to hold off. I've got limited bike funds so I need to wait for the right bike that ticks all my boxes. Whatever I buy will be kept 5yrs+.

    I expect Knolly will have a 29er on the market by then and I'll be keen to see how it stacks up.
    Haha, great point

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  84. #84
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    [QUOTE=vikb I've got limited bike funds so I need to wait for the right bike that ticks all my boxes.

    I expect Knolly will have a 29er on the market by then and I'll be keen to see how it stacks up. [/QUOTE]

    This is where I am at currently. As much as I would like to add a FS 29 to the mix with the Warden, I am trying to be patient and get what I really want. The only bike that comes close to matching that formula is the Santa Cruz Hightower. It is the only frame available that is built to work with 27.5+ and 29, no compromises. It also ticks most of the boxes in terms of specifications. Would still prefer an alloy frame over carbon, but I do want to consider weight for this type of build.
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  85. #85
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    You've seen the 27.5+ Riots, right? From what I've seen with the Hightower it doesn't have room for 3.0 tires either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You've seen the 27.5+ Riots, right? From what I've seen with the Hightower it doesn't have room for 3.0 tires either.
    I've heard both that the HT has limited 27+ clearance and also that it can clear 3" tires with mud. I don't know what the "truth" is.
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    The truth is out there...

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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You've seen the 27.5+ Riots, right? From what I've seen with the Hightower it doesn't have room for 3.0 tires either.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    It looks like there is ample room on the HT with up to 3" tires. I was thinking more about being able to make easy adjustments to the frame geometry. With a simple shock bolt position change I can adjust my Warden to fit the trails I am riding. What SC did with the HT makes perfect sense for a bike that can run 27.5+ and 29.

    On the Riot subject, I would prefer the compliment bike to be lighter than my Warden and more trail/distance oriented. My current parts fit the Riot, but would put the weight a few pounds over my Warden.

    I will need to do some test riding this summer. Part of the reason I am not in a hurry is the changing standards, particularly the hubs. I also don't absolutely need the ability to run 27.5+, but it would be nice to have another way to play bike Tetris without buying another frame.
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  89. #89
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    The Riot looks like it will tick all my boxes in carbon if they can drop ~2bs of the frame weight.

    That said as BC rider I'm pretty keen to get on a Knolly. I also have ridden dual mini-link bikes for 8yrs straight and I won't be getting rid of those bikes so that will continue. I'm interested in trying out a more active suspension design for a change of pace.

    Realistically I've got 1 or 2yrs to save for a new bike so I have time for both a carbon Riot and a Knolly 29er to come to market. That's the only good thing about having a tight bike budget - it makes waiting less painful.
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    Hausbesuch bei Knolly Bikes: Mehr North Shore geht nicht - MTB-News.de

    Check that interview... or just the last sentence Noel confirms that Knolly is working on a 29er

  91. #91
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    I'll tell as much: In the near future we have a 29er in development.
    Even with Google Translate, there's not much room for ambiguity in that statement!

  92. #92
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    Ooh yes! Excited to see what's planned. Might just have to add another Knolly to the quiver 😁

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    Ooh yes! Excited to see what's planned. Might just have to add another Knolly to the quiver 😁
    +1 !!

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzoo View Post
    Hausbesuch bei Knolly Bikes: Mehr North Shore geht nicht - MTB-News.de

    Check that interview... or just the last sentence Noel confirms that Knolly is working on a 29er
    Nice
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  95. #95
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    Schweet

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzoo View Post
    Hausbesuch bei Knolly Bikes: Mehr North Shore geht nicht - MTB-News.de

    Check that interview... or just the last sentence Noel confirms that Knolly is working on a 29er
    That's a nice article about the company!!! Thanks for sharing!

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Google Translate
    , I'll tell as much: In the near future we have a 29er in development.
    Details pls, might have to build 29rz after all!
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  98. #98
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    And PLEEZE raise the main pivot so the AS uphill is not terrible. Most of the FSR bikes seem to be trapped in the "intended for a 22t chainring" for climbing and mashing uphill, which means a normal 30-34t chainring makes it pedal like a sponge.

    More competition for "normal geometry" aggressive 29er bikes is great!
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  99. #99
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    Just hope the one w/ ~19" ST isn't under 7lbs...

    EDIT- If this frame is going to happen, definitely incorporate double row bearings into the main pivot

    Climbing on full suspension transfers a ton of force on the main pivot especially 622 wheelz...This thing needs double row bearings on each side of the main pivot axle...Most if not all of these newer bikes are undergunned having only one dinky bearing on each side (pivot above bottom bracket there) that just doesn't cut it, the slop that quickly develops ovalizes the pivot in the frame
    Last edited by Deerhill; 04-20-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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  100. #100
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    Since the Knolly 29er has been officially acknowledged at least once in that German MTB mag article could the Knolly mothership let us know if it's going to be a fall 2016 Interbike product or if we are talking later sometime in 2017 or even beyond?

    No worries either way. Just curious if it's something to get excited about or best put on the bike radar back burner.
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  101. #101
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    the blog on Knolly's website (Dec 15 post) states "Two new models are already available and two more are in the pipeline for early in 2016..." and then goes on to mention the carbon Warden and new Delirium as the new available models, that a new 27.5 Podium is on the way ("...We will have a limited distribution in time for race season..."). So that is 3 of the implied 4 new models. So no idea if the 4th is a 29r, carbon 27.5 Endo or something else, but it did sound like something else is in the works sooner than later

  102. #102
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    If anyone could get me to ride a 29r, it would be Noel on a Knolly.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    If anyone could get me to ride a 29r, it would be Noel on a Knolly.
    me too.

    Will be interesting to see which spectrum of the 29er market Noel shoots for...cos honestly a lot of companies are pushing the boundaries in terms of 29'er geo...and here in Seattle...they are all over. I travelled to the EWS with Lb Strobel and he is pretty sold. Currently throwing a 40 on it for the DH race in PA this weekend.
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  104. #104
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    I'm hopeful it's the mid-travel segment ~130mm +/-10mm travel. With aggressive geo folks like Evil and Canfield have proven you can do a lot with big wheels and medium travel + short chainstays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    I travelled to the EWS with Lb Strobel.
    Nice, yeah he is who actually has me thinking there is something to it. I think he's fairly short. I am only 5'7" on a tall day so I have always assumed they would be too cumbersome.

    Hell, I'm still on a 26" endorphin.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWK View Post
    t So no idea if the 4th is a 29r [or] carbon 27.5 Endo
    I think it's a toss up as to which of those will be out first. Wouldn't surprise me if it were the 29er, but I have no inside knowledge.

    Exciting times. Can't wait to see what he's cooked up for the 29er.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    If anyone could get me to ride a 29r, it would be Noel on a Knolly.
    The Canfield boys have totally convinced me (On a Riot after not getting totally along with the Following).

    Really can't wait to see what Noel will cook up, I'm sure it'll be amazing as all Knollys are. My wife's still on a 26" Endorphin and she won't let that bike go no matter what I or anyone says, she loves it to bits.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    The Canfield boys have totally convinced me (On a Riot after not getting totally along with the Following).
    This is my thought right here too. I also am hoping they release a 27.5 Podium, as I think its time to get back on a DH rig to complement my Riot, because I dont think the Chili will see much use.
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm hopeful it's the mid-travel segment ~130mm +/-10mm travel. With aggressive geo folks like Evil and Canfield have proven you can do a lot with big wheels and medium travel + short chainstays.
    Plus 1. I agree with you vik.

    ~130mm +/- rear travel (Although I'd prefer--and I think this is where Noel is going--- closer to 120 than 140 unless it's pretty light), 66-67 deg HA, <17" CS, and two position shock mount to steepen the HA and raise the bb for climbing and chunkier tech.

    PS: That new 27.5 Podium is going to be sick..... I assume.
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  110. #110
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    Cuz what the world needs now, is another 120-140mm 29er...

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    True. Knolly could build the world's first 29er 15" travel trike tall-bike and be really unique. Actually selling lots of product is so overrated.

    Being unique is where it's at!

    Disclaimer - this photo ^^^ is not an actual spy shot of a Knolly prototype.
    Safe riding,

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  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    True. Knolly could build the world's first 29er 15" travel trike tall-bike and be really unique. Actually selling lots of product is so overrated.

    Being unique is where it's at!
    Disclaimer - this photo ^^^ is not an actual spy shot of a Knolly prototype.
    You had me excited there for a second, and then I read the disclaimer 😂

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWK View Post
    So no idea if the 4th is a 29r, carbon 27.5 Endo or something else, but it did sound like something else is in the works sooner than later
    Given that the article on the previous page quotes Noel as saying "I'll tell as much: In the near future we have a 29er in development." I'd put my money on it being the 29er if there is only one more new bike coming this year (after the three you mentioned).
    I'd prefer the carbon endo (no interest in 29ers, thought I probably should ride one before being so judgemental! ), but I can see why the 29er would come first.

  114. #114
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    Chilcotin, minus a pound...maybe take off 10-15mm travel...with the slick one piece stays that made their way down from the Podium to Delirium and bring em here
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  115. #115
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    Is there any design limitation to 29er wheels and Knolly's 4x4 suspension that wouldn't allow for sub-17" chainstays?

    Canfield and Lenz for example have managed some impressively short chainstays in the 16.75" and shorter range with 29er wheels.

    Just wondering 4x4 constrains things from getting that short?
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  116. #116
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    Seatstay brace behind seat tube...guess rocker length could be changed for that, though 17" is pretty good for normal non-short legged peopleAttachment 1067014
    video=youtube;][/video]...

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    Make it with essentially the same geo as the new Endorphin, give it two upper shock mounts and two lower shock mounts and the choice of 200x50 or 200x57 shock and you could choose between low and slack/higher and steeper and 110/130 mm travel or 130/150 mm travel. That should keep everyone happy. OH! Also boost for B+, 29 and 29+wheel compatibility.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-rider View Post
    Also boost for B+, 29 and 29+wheel compatibility.
    I'd much rather have shorter CS for snappier handling and tires limited to 29 x 2.4" than adding an extra 0.5"+ to the CS for 29+. Making it B+ is a reasonable option that wouldn't require too many compromises given that Knolly has done Hi/Lo geo on other bikes.

    Although Boost is probably inevitable it's worth pointing out that it's not req'd to run plus tires as evidenced by all the non-Boost plus bikes.
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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'd much rather have shorter CS for snappier handling and tires limited to 29 x 2.4" than adding an extra 0.5"+ to the CS for 29+. Making it B+ is a reasonable option that wouldn't require too many compromises given that Knolly has done Hi/Lo geo on other bikes.

    Although Boost is probably inevitable it's worth pointing out that it's not req'd to run plus tires as evidenced by all the non-Boost plus bikes.
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure it will be boost spacing and 27plus compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Is there any design limitation to 29er wheels and Knolly's 4x4 suspension that wouldn't allow for sub-17" chainstays?

    Canfield and Lenz for example have managed some impressively short chainstays in the 16.75" and shorter range with 29er wheels.

    Just wondering 4x4 constrains things from getting that short?
    I think Noel chimed in earlier (on this thread?) about CS length and said that the Four by 4 suspension design really has no limits as far as what can be done. IIRC he did imply that there is a point when CS are too short though. Not sure what he feels that length is.
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I think Noel chimed in earlier (on this thread?) about CS length and said that the Four by 4 suspension design really has no limits as far as what can be done. IIRC he did imply that there is a point when CS are too short though. Not sure what he feels that length is.
    Bikes like the Riot [16.28" CS], Trek Stache 29+ [16.5" CS] and Lenz LB/'Moth [16.75" CS] are all well rec'd and you don't hear any owners complaining that the short CS are a detriment.

    Hopefully Knolly is paying attention to those designs and tests out some short CS prototypes.
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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian View Post
    Yeah, I have a Lyrik sitting in a box that I used on my Chili before replaced it with a Pike. I thought about trying to sell it, but it might be worth having a back up fork since I have no intention of ever getting rid of my Chili.

    Dooooooo eeeeet!

    Lyric 170 solo air + Charger damper + Pike air topcap/token vulnerability is veeeeery sweet on the front of my Nomad. Retains that 20mms axle too!
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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    Dooooooo eeeeet!

    Lyric 170 solo air + Charger damper + Pike air topcap/token vulnerability is veeeeery sweet on the front of my Nomad. Retains that 20mms axle too!
    So the new charger damper will drop right in an older 26" Lyrik? It's time to rebuild my Lyrik and I'm debating sending it back to Avalanche to rebuild and get it retuned for me (bought it used like 2-3 years ago) or buying a new fork. This may be another option if it's doable.
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So the new charger damper will drop right in an older 26" Lyrik? It's time to rebuild my Lyrik and I'm debating sending it back to Avalanche to rebuild and get it retuned for me (bought it used like 2-3 years ago) or buying a new fork. This may be another option if it's doable.
    Yep. Replaces the old comp and rebound guts all in one go.

    Did mine while upping travel to 170mm and popped the Bottomless Token cap on at once. Whole thing including stoppage lowers/doing a basic service was under an hour.

    The new damper isn't cheap, but it was all still much less than a new fork, and it rides great!
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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure it will be boost spacing and 27plus compatible.



    I think Noel chimed in earlier (on this thread?) about CS length and said that the Four by 4 suspension design really has no limits as far as what can be done. IIRC he did imply that there is a point when CS are too short though. Not sure what he feels that length is.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Bikes like the Riot [16.28" CS], Trek Stache 29+ [16.5" CS] and Lenz LB/'Moth [16.75" CS] are all well rec'd and you don't hear any owners complaining that the short CS are a detriment.

    Hopefully Knolly is paying attention to those designs and tests out some short CS prototypes.
    As long as it can take ~547mm A2C in a zero stack head tube...can't wait for some detailz...give us a little somethin'Attachment 1069397
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Is there any design limitation to 29er wheels and Knolly's 4x4 suspension that wouldn't allow for sub-17" chainstays?

    Canfield and Lenz for example have managed some impressively short chainstays in the 16.75" and shorter range with 29er wheels.

    Just wondering 4x4 constrains things from getting that short?
    16.28 on my Riot to be exact. Pretty nuts
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  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    16.28 on my Riot to be exact. Pretty nuts
    It is. I don't feel like that means every 29er has to be that short, but I hope we are done with 29ers with 17"+ CS.
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    It is. I don't feel like that means every 29er has to be that short, but I hope we are done with 29ers with 17"+ CS.
    And 27.5 for that matter.

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  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    And 27.5 for that matter.

    Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk
    Agreed. If I see a 27.5 bike with 17"+ CS I just ignore it.

    I'm not sold on the super long front center low as heck modern geo, but FFS if that's where things are headed tighten up the back end!
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  129. #129
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    Been looking for steel hardtail like that to tie me over...till some detailz show up...tapered 56mm ZS head tube & threaded bottom bracket is little tough to find?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Been looking for steel hardtail like that to tie me over...till some detailz show up...tapered 56mm ZS head tube & threaded bottom bracket is little tough to find?
    29er or 27.5?

  131. #131
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    29"...needs the 56mm...not Honzo heavy

    EDIT- steel frame with 1.5" bottom headset cup would work too




    650b seems easier to find
    Last edited by Deerhill; 05-19-2016 at 08:59 AM.
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    29"...needs the 56mm...
    That's going to be pretty difficult. The 2015 & 2016 Honzo st is the only one I know of with a threaded bb and a tapered head tube. I can live with the heft of a near 7 lb frame to live without boost. If I threw a ton money at it and run XC tires, I could get my personal bike to 28ish lbs. Good luck man!

    Anyways, back on topic. I would love to seem something to compete with the Riot or a short travel bike like the Smuggler with shorter rear end.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post
    or a short travel bike like the Smuggler with shorter rear end.

    Or may be even somethiting really short travel competing to Phantom
    Last edited by Vadim0791; 05-22-2016 at 09:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim0791 View Post
    :
    thumbsup:
    Or may be even somethiting really short travel competing to Phantom
    Yeah, with the right geo and good ramp up so the shorter travel feels more bottomless/Knolly-like I could maybe get into that. Like I said though, personal (selfish) preference is for 120-130mm, but 100-120mm wouldn't surprise me. I've heard Noel talk about "the perfect BC Bike Race weapon."
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Been looking for steel hardtail like that to tie me over...till some detailz show up...tapered 56mm ZS head tube & threaded bottom bracket is little tough to find?
    FASTFORWARD | Last-Bikes

  136. #136
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    Or....... there's this. Super Boost spacing and 135mm rear 29 or 27+. Count me interested.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  137. #137
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    That Switchblade does tick all the boxes for what I'm looking for.. except
    it's not a Knolly

  138. #138
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    As much as I want to like the 429 trail and now the switchblade, there's just something about the Pivots aesthetics that puts me off them. Otherwise looking at the geo charts they look almost perfect and you can fit a water bottle in the main triangle!

    Still waiting out to see what Noel's got in the works 👍

  139. #139
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    I didn't like the metal Pivots I've seen, but the carbon bikes look really nice when they don't have too many busy Power Ranger graphics on them.

    I'm also still interested in the Knolly.

    I need a higher BB for where I ride so I am keeping fingers crossed for a two position geo with one that's high enough to pedal through chunk.

    If I can use my existing wheels that would also be a bonus in keeping costs down and not wasting expensive components that have many years of life left in them.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Or....... there's this. Super Boost spacing and 135mm rear 29 or 27+. Count me interested.
    I do hope that the SB's shorter CS means that 17"+ CS are dead on 29ers. I could care less about plus tire compatibility though, but short CS and a high enough BB to pedal through rooty/rocky BC gnar would be awesome.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    As much as I want to like the 429 trail and now the switchblade, there's just something about the Pivots aesthetics that puts me off them. Otherwise looking at the geo charts they look almost perfect and you can fit a water bottle in the main triangle!

    Still waiting out to see what Noel's got in the works
    Yeah, I agree with both you and vikb. Pivot just doesn't do it for me, although their carbon frames look better.

    I'll be wanting a new trail bike next year, and it's going to be a 29er. I'm curious to see how the market evolves in that time. I'm sure my friend would love to put me on a Knolly.

  142. #142
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    Just watched this last night and it's great insight upon all the different wheels sizes from pro DH and Enduro riders. Some who have never ridden said wheel sizes as well.

    And just to chime in, I believe Noel will end up making a 27.5+ bike as it's a nice lateral movement in size as it's basically the same overall diameter as a 29er and you could potentially convert the bike to run 29" wheels.


  143. #143
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    I'm sure the 29er plans are done but I'd love to see:

    150 front and rear
    66 HA
    16.5 CS

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post
    That's going to be pretty difficult. The 2015 & 2016 Honzo st is the only one I know of with a threaded bb and a tapered head tube. I can live with the heft of a near 7 lb frame to live without boost. If I threw a ton money at it and run XC tires, I could get my personal bike to 28ish lbs. Good luck man!

    Anyways, back on topic. I would love to seem something to compete with the Riot or a short travel bike like the Smuggler with shorter rear end.
    ef it, far as building 622 wheelz.. I'm holding out
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  145. #145
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    ^^ Holdout would be a good name for the bike )
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'd much rather have shorter CS for snappier handling and tires limited to 29 x 2.4" than adding an extra 0.5"+ to the CS for 29+. Making it B+ is a reasonable option that wouldn't require too many compromises given that Knolly has done Hi/Lo geo on other bikes.

    Although Boost is probably inevitable it's worth pointing out that it's not req'd to run plus tires as evidenced by all the non-Boost plus bikes.
    Better late than never, from his blog titled a tale of two bikes.
    WaltWorks has built a 29 x 3 bike with 125 mm travel and 420mm cs and one with 160mm travel and 425mm cs. Apparently it can be done.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-rider View Post
    Better late than never, from his blog titled a tale of two bikes.
    WaltWorks has built a 29 x 3 bike with 125 mm travel and 420mm cs and one with 160mm travel and 425mm cs. Apparently it can be done.
    If the new Knolly has short CS and can run 29+ that's great. I am not likely to run plus tires, but the extra clearance doesn't cause me any concern.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  148. #148
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    Warden travel and geo but with reach numbers closer to the delirium. Enduro crusher machine! Please. Alloy and Carbon options.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

  149. #149
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    I hope we get some info on this bike by Interbike.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  150. #150
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    Endorphin 4.0?

  151. #151
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    .. posted to wrong thread
    sorry

  152. #152
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    Here comes another low & slack niner-
    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol From Single Pivot to Horst Link - Mountain bike news, photos, videos and events - Pinkbike
    Noel,please,make your baby 120(110-115)mm travel,threaded BB,non-boost,long,low,67-68° head angle,raw collor...and take my money

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I hope we get some info on this bike by Interbike.
    I'm betting they'll unveil it (plus the new Podium and Carbon Endo) at Eurobike next month.

    Yes, I'm an optimist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  154. #154
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    I tried stopping by their shop at lunch today to spy. Downstairs windows shades were drawn. Wouldnt unlock the door.

    I am gonna buy a drone tonight and look through their upstairs windows in the morning. Will let ya know what I find.

  155. #155
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    video=youtube;][/video]...

  156. #156
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    Carbon Transition Scout just released today, fingers crossed the carbon Endo isn't far behind...

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Carbon Transition Scout just released today, fingers crossed the carbon Endo isn't far behind...
    I hope not, haven't had the endo 275 for long enough to constitute a new bike.

  158. #158
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    haha..love popcorn..and darth...nice. I'm really waiting here in anticipation for this 29er if it happens. I know it will by the talk but I never thought I would say I might be dabbing into other waters to try difference fish... hence..the bros. I'm dying here.

    i'm going to ride my all coil sweetness Chilli tonight and get this out of my system.
    Does anyone know anything?!!?!?
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  159. #159
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    Less than 10 days til Eurobike....
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  160. #160
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    Exciting times.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Exciting times.
    I'm almost afraid to hope, but there should be a new Podium released then too. Three new bikes??? Whoa. Mind blown.


    We'll see.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'm almost afraid to hope, but there should be a new Podium released then too. Three new bikes??? Whoa. Mind blown.


    We'll see.
    You thinking Podium, carbon Endorphin, and Twenty gnargnar? Definitely eager to see what they have in store and still really happy with my Warden. Once in a while I think about changing to something else just out of the sake of boredom (this is a very real problem dealing with bikes all day) but I never find anything I want to ride more than the Warden.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  163. #163
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    tri-cycles (knolly's distributor in germany) is not going to attend eurobike!
    what's up? and where/when are we gonna see all the new releases then?

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    You thinking Podium, carbon Endorphin, and Twenty gnargnar? Definitely eager to see what they have in store and still really happy with my Warden. Once in a while I think about changing to something else just out of the sake of boredom (this is a very real problem dealing with bikes all day) but I never find anything I want to ride more than the Warden.
    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I know they've been working on all three of those. Not sure where they are in the development of each, but it would be really cool (and good for their business, I think) if all three where shown at Eurobike in ready-to-go production form. A guy can dream can't he?
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  165. #165
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    I'm excited for the next couple months. Either a sweet bike I am interested in gets dropped or I can forget about my new bike itch until the spring. Either way it's a win.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  166. #166
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    What's a Twenty gnargnar? A bmx bike? Google thinks it's 20 IPAs.
    '04 Knolly VTach | '15 Knolly Podium | '16 Knolly Delirium | Knolly Warden

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    What's a Twenty gnargnar? A bmx bike? Google thinks it's 20 IPAs.
    A Knolly Twenty GnarGnar would be 150mm front and back! Something to launch into rock gardens with no regard...And I really like this name for the bike.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    A Knolly Twenty GnarGnar would be 150mm front and back! Something to launch into rock gardens with no regard...And I really like this name for the bike.
    I donno. First time I heard someone use the term Gnar Gnar at a trail head...I threw up in my mouth a little.
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    What's a Twenty gnargnar? A bmx bike? Google thinks it's 20 IPAs.
    As one of those folks that swore off riding 29ers years ago when they were tall and awkward, i use that term for some of the new breed wagon wheelers that have intrigued me. Calling them that makes me feel a litlle less hypocritical about consiering a wheelsize i swore I'd never buy.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  170. #170
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    I like Google's thinking...

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    I donno. First time I heard someone use the term Gnar Gnar at a trail head...I threw up in my mouth a little.
    Haha...I have a friend that sounds like a donkey when he says it too!

  172. #172
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    After a ridiculously fun ride today my friend mentioned that he heard that the 29er was going straight to carbon.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    After a ridiculously fun ride today my friend mentioned that he heard that the 29er was going straight to carbon.

  174. #174
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    My buddy rides a Warden as well, so he should know.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  175. #175
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    The 29er will probably go straight to metric tires as well. I hope they got room for the 60.96mm rubber plus at least 200g of mud!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  176. #176
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    Knolly TH

    lol, they should call it Trail Head
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  177. #177
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    Euro Bike Day 1 and....?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Euro Bike Day 1 and....?
    refresh, refresh, refresh
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Euro Bike Day 1 and....?
    Nothing on the Knolly FB page yet. Anxiously waiting............
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Nothing on the Knolly FB page yet. Anxiously waiting............
    Look harder!

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Look harder!
    The whisky picture?
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  182. #182
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    Sorry my bad. Day 1 is tomorrow - 31 Aug.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    The whisky picture?
    Oddly enough, I was into a bottle of that exact product on the weekend. Really sad that I only have 1 bottle of it left!

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Sorry my bad. Day 1 is tomorrow - 31 Aug.
    All good, sometimes its too exciting to contain yourself!

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    The whisky picture?
    On second look. That bike on the left in the background looks like its wheels are a little larger than average.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I wonder if Noel is working on a 29er to compete with the Following and Ripley LS.-knollyshop.jpg  

    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  186. #186
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    Soo tastey!
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  187. #187
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    T'is 622, right?

    Edit- I'm seeing carbon too...or that slick gas formed aluminum
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  188. #188
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    Get that box out of the way!
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  189. #189
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    Knolly is not on vendor list

  190. #190
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    Eurobike

    Knolly is not on vendor list.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    On second look. That bike on the left in the background looks like its wheels are a little larger than average.


    My guess for the name of the new 29er The Growler.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    On second look. That bike on the left in the background looks like its wheels are a little larger than average.
    I thought that too, but I think it is simply a small or medium carbon Warden with an XL Warden next to it.
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  193. #193
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    I tried zooming in on the pic, can't make out the name on the top tube but I agree with the above. Someone was hitting the bottle and decided to have a laugh with some tricky photography...

  194. #194
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    Yes I figured that out as well, but I didn't say anything...because sometimes the dream is more important than the reality.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  195. #195
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    Maybe we are looking at the wrong objects. Check out the two wheels on the right in the photo and notice the height difference. The one on the left appears to be taller than the one on the right, especially since the one on the left is leaning more. My guess is we'll see the 29er soon...a few hours?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be the Bike View Post
    Maybe we are looking at the wrong objects. Check out the two wheels on the right in the photo and notice the height difference. The one on the left appears to be taller than the one on the right, especially since the one on the left is leaning more. My guess is we'll see the 29er soon...a few hours?
    I tried to dissect that photo for quite a while when they posted it. Those wheels caught my eye right away as well but I ended up deciding the one on the left looks taller because it's just balanced more upright on the other wheel and not actually leaning on the bench like it initially looks. Who knows though. The wheels on the bike on the left certainly have a bit more of a 29er look to them as well. Just a little taller and a little leaner than the one on the right but that could just be different rim and tire combos couples with the perspective. Hoping something drops today. As far as them not being on the vendor list, I don't think they usually are? Seems like in the past it's either been in conjunction with one of their european distributors, another brand, or guerrilla style. Kevin's FB account has gone pretty dark the past several days so hoping that means he's been traveling and busy. Hope we don't have to wait for IB.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Hope we don't have to wait for IB.
    Noel has written off Interbike as "not worth the trip" for several years now. I doubt they'll be at Interbike whether they show something at Eurobike or not. If nothing drops this week, then Outerbike in Moab is a possibility.

    I agree about the wheels in the foreground not being 29". Maybe because I assumed they belonged on that Warden frame hanging in the stand.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  198. #198
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    Ya I'm going to cancel my smoke machine rental and tell the KISS cover band to go home. I think it's going be late winter 2017 before the Knolly Growler 29er drops.



    That gives us more time to save money!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That gives us more time to save money!
    That never works, I'll just spend it on carbon wheels or that new MRP fork instead (or an 11-6, or Eagle, or .......)
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    That never works, I'll just spend it on carbon wheels or that new MRP fork instead (or an 11-6, or Eagle, or .......)
    That's funny but oh so true!

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