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  1. #1
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    Fugitive build ideas & plans

    I'm planning my Fugitive build and as I haven't build up a new bike for the last 3 years I would like to ask you guys for some critique and tips on how to improve durability and comfort without sacrificing weight.

    General idea behind the build - 135mm travel option

    A tough, durable trail build for all day epics, focused more on comfort than racing against the clock. Key aims are low maintenance requirements and limiting total cost of ownership.

    Hence I stay away from carbon bits on the bike, as I had hit and miss experience with composite parts on my current bikes.

    Air is also out of the question, as you can save shit load of money on service, as coil is way cheaper to service if you ride a lot. Plus I like set and forget nature of coil. The fact that, Knolly feels awesome on coil is another reason to dismiss the evil of air suspension

    Suspension

    My preferred setup would be DB Inline Coil with OPT remote lock-out coupled with DROPT remote for on the fly adjustments and clean cockpit.

    For the fork I'm thinking Cane Creek Helm Coil, if it will be available in time.

    That way I would have a low maintenance setup and lower service costs than air.

    If Helm 29 Coil will not be available, I will go for a used Pike and AC3 kit. Maybe MRP Coil if it will have service support over here in Europe.

    Wheels

    A bulletproof setup with DT swiss 350 hubs with upgraded ratchet and EX511 rims. If budget allows maybe I9 hubs.

    Cockpit - which alloy bar would you recommend?

    Syntace Megaforce 2 stem and I'm lost which alloy bar to choose. Renthal Fatbar? People rave about the ride quality, but I haven't tried one yet. Any suggestions for durable and comfortable bar?

    I had plenty of top carbon bars, and they're great, but there's one thing I hate about them is that I'm always wondering if they're safe to ride after a crash in the middle of nowhere. Second guessing gets on my nerves really bad. I know it's stupid but I can't get out of my head.

    I want to try also push-on grips to see how they improve comfort over long rides.

    Drivetrain

    Will go with X1 drive train, as I have almost new one on the Chilco. Propably I will switch to 12sp XTR with DM rings, which is to be launched for 2019.

    Brakes - Modulation - any alternative to Guide RSC?

    Modulation is key for me so probably Guide RSC. Or Hope's E4/V4? It's a tough choice as nothing is perfect in that department.

    Dropper
    Bike Yoke or 9.8 -reliability is a must!


    Any ideas and pointing out anything to improve are really welcome. I want this bike to be right from the start and avoid changing out components mid season.


    Below estimated weight of full coil build with rather durable parts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fugitive build ideas & plans-comparison.jpg  

    Last edited by Kombinat.PL; 02-24-2018 at 12:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    Sounds like a good plan to me. I haven't serviced my CoilIl yet so unsure how the cost compares to the Inline air, but the service intervals are the same so not sure how much cash you'll save there. Certainly would feel good and more reliable though!

    You going to run 120mm or 135mm? I'm still waiting to see a full geo chart for both options, the weight etc will be the same and if the geo is similar I'm trying to get my head around what the advantages of the shorter travel option could be.

  3. #3
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    I will go for 135mm.

    I did a calculation on total cost of ownership of air vs. coil with CC products, Fox is even more expensive to service here than CC, and the main saving comes from lack of servicing air spring, which is quite expensive. I assumed one air spring service per year.

  4. #4
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    Brakes - if you want modulation, have you considered Magura MT7 or MT5? I have the MT7 on my Endo and they're very powerful with excellent modulation. I just ordered a set of MT5 for my old Delirium-T. They're easy to bleed and they're very affordable from those German online stores.

  5. #5
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    @ B&F,
    I didn't like their levers. I have really small hands and I must have levers close to bars with small throw. I haven't tried them with Danny M new levers though.

    You have the improved levers? Or the old ones?

  6. #6
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    I have the old levers. I like them, but I know other people who didn't like them at all, I guess it's a personal preference. The MT7 suit me fine (I wear a size large glove). I have read that with the MT5 you can dial them in so the lever is much closer to the bar and they suit people with smaller hands. Yes, the new levers look nice but I don't feel the need to upgrade.

  7. #7
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    @B&F,

    I will need to test MT5 then. I had a look and they come on a few German brands, so I will find someone around here with them.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Sounds like a good plan to me. I haven't serviced my CoilIl yet so unsure how the cost compares to the Inline air, but the service intervals are the same so not sure how much cash you'll save there. Certainly would feel good and more reliable though!
    FWIW - Our local-ish CC service centre charges the same price for an air or coil CC Inline rebuild. If you go direct to CC it's $10 cheaper to do a coil Inline service....$150 vs. $160.

    The service intervals for the air & coil shocks are the same as it's based on the damper not the type of spring used.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinat.PL View Post
    Suspension

    My preferred setup would be DB Inline Coil with OPT remote lock-out coupled with DROPT remote for on the fly adjustments and clean cockpit.
    I would skip the shock remote. The only time most people touch the climbing switch on their shock is for long smooth road climbs. For that you can reach down and flick the switch. I can't think of one Knolly owner who has bothered with a bar mounted remote after riding the 4x4 suspension.
    Safe riding,

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  10. #10
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    Geo on 120 vs 135 mm should be the same (static) as the shock has the same eye-2-eye length in both travel options (just the stroke that differs). Of course there will be a little more sag on the longer stroke shock ...

  11. #11
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    Everyday 26 does service on MRP in Germany if that is of any help ...

  12. #12
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    Oh and for bars I have been very happy on Deity bars (love their shape). But why no Syntace bar if you plan to use their Megaforce2 stem (my favorite stem by the way)?

  13. #13
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    @ Vikb

    For my market a difference between and air shock-fork combo and a coil setup a price difference per one service is more to the tune of 40-60 bucks. Twice a year it makes for a nice set of tires (tires are cheaper here than in US).


    Concerning a remote, I think I will test it. After a few years with Chico I would find a use for remote on short smooth gravel sprints over here.

    @ Zuzi. Thanks for the reminder about Syntance. I had only carbon Syntance bars. Any experience with their alloy offerings? Are they comfy?

  14. #14
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    I normally swear by carbon bars, the vibration damping is real. A buddy just got the spank vibcore bars. And they feel just as good as my carbon.

  15. #15
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    for brake why not go for hope if you want modulation?

    I would go with a ribbon coil fork. I have one on my Warden C and love it.

  16. #16
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    DVO Fork and shock
    CHROMAG BZA bars and stem, saddle
    Chromag Scarab flats
    Sram GX Eagle
    Hope headset and bb
    i9 305 wheels
    maxxis tires
    Bike Yoke Revive dropper
    magura stoppers

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrosalas7 View Post
    for brake why not go for hope if you want modulation?

    I would go with a ribbon coil fork. I have one on my Warden C and love it.
    Hope's can be pricy depending on exchange rates, so they're a second option funds permitting.

    I think I will go for CC Helm Coil on a nice bro deal. Plus there's no way to test Ribbon overhere



    Quote Originally Posted by CHROMAG19 View Post
    CHROMAG BZA bars and stem
    I like Chromag parts, but haven't had really chance to ride their alloy bars. Aren't they very stiff to suit freeride more than old man's trail riding?

  18. #18
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    Added estimated weight for 135 full coil build. It comes around 15 kg. Not bad for am build.

    I guess with air and carbon components, one can get around 13,5kg. With carbon version 13 kg doesn't seem impossible.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinat.PL View Post
    Added estimated weight for 135 full coil build. It comes around 15 kg. Not bad for am build.

    I guess with air and carbon components, one can get around 13,5kg. With carbon version 13 kg doesn't seem impossible.
    These are reasonable estimates. The frame is very slightly heavier than the current 27.5 Endorphin: A small amount of weight was added on purpose for a few reasons:

    • Improved Industrial Design: no matter what, this always adds weight;
    • Increase in downtube cross sectional area at BB for increased torsional rigidity;
    • Larger bearings and bushings;
    • Trunnion shock mounting weighs more than conventional eyelets due to the addition of 2 more bearings and hence, increase in linkage size for those bearings;
    • And the frame is bigger and stronger as it's designed for larger wheels and to be thrashed on: we're testing them to the same standards that we currently test the alloy Warden to.


    29er bikes in general weigh about 1 - 1.5 pounds more than equivalent 27.5 bikes strictly due to the wheels, so if you're a current Knolly owner and build the Fugitive up similarly to an Endorphin or Warden for example, expect your equivalent build weight to be about 1 - 1.5 pounds higher mostly due to the 29er vs 27.5 wheels.

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  20. #20
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    Another possibility for brakes would be XTR race levers with Saint/XT 4 pot calipers.
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  21. #21
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    @TwoTone

    I never got along with how Shimano brakes' feel.

    @Noel,

    Thanks for the validation and detailed info!


    I added a comparison with AIR/Ca build. With Air, bling wheels and light cranks you can get below 13,9 kg.

    If still coil is the preferred suspension, going for wheels, cranks and carbon bar will bring weight down to 14,7 kg. However budget will need to be increased by I guess 40-50%

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinat.PL View Post
    @TwoTone

    I never got along with how Shimano brakes' feel.

    @Noel,

    Thanks for the validation and detailed info!


    I added a comparison with AIR/Ca build. With Air, bling wheels and light cranks you can get below 13,9 kg.

    If still coil is the preferred suspension, going for wheels, cranks and carbon bar will bring weight down to 14,7 kg. However budget will need to be increased by I guess 40-50%
    That's why I said the Race levers. They don't have the Servo Wave which makes the other models feel on/off to people.
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  23. #23
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    Build looks super solid. Your looking at slip on's for longer rides, do you get a lot of hand fatigue? I know this sounds stupid but have you considered the Pivot Phoenix Padloc grips? You have to do the stupid angle cut on your bars for Padlocs, but they are damn comfy. I've broken various bones in my hand and have game keeper's / skier thumb injuries on both of my hands. I would bounce back and fourth between ODI rouges, Ergon GA2 and GA2 factories until I found these.

  24. #24
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    I've just switched to Code RSC brakes from Guide RSC. Awesome upgrade that I'd recommend.
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  25. #25
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    Trying to figure out if I want to take the leap to an xl being 6'2" and 252 lbs. My chili is a L and I should be on an XL with that dirty little ho but I make it work... love that thing. I know the ATT is a bit longer on the Fug than the chilli and the Reach is longer.. hummm... but I don't know. Maybe an XL fug and shorty stem?

    I know some knomers out there like me so whatcha thinking for yourself?
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  26. #26
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    Wondering the same thing, at 183cm I'd be comfortable on the large, but I've always been curious about longer bikes and would be interested to try something with significantly more reach than my L Endo. Best bet would be e demo, but not really an option for me down under.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    Your looking at slip on's for longer rides, do you get a lot of hand fatigue?
    There are three reasons I want to go push-on instead of lock-ons:

    1. I have small hand/short fingers and the best grip/wrap on the bar I have with grip diameter of around 26-28 with normal gloves. Lock-ons are around 30mm, tested almost all of them, so slightly too thick with gloves.

    2. The ultra tacky Renthal by being really slim and providing this sticky grip let me clench the bar less, and by this reduce my fatigue over long rides. Having to use less grip to hold on to the bar is quite important to me, as after braking my elbow, twice, I don't have the strength of the grip I used to.

    3. They're really cheap while providing great comfort and bike feel. I was skeptic but now I'm a convert.


    Quote Originally Posted by mattnz View Post
    I've just switched to Code RSC brakes from Guide RSC. Awesome upgrade that I'd recommend.
    It's an upgrade in terms of modulation, power or both?

    My left hand, after the injury, is not particularly strong and finger control could be better. Hence I need a good modulation on the brakes with predictable bite point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    I know some knomers out there like me so whatcha thinking for yourself?
    I'm 182 and currently on L Chilcotin. I ride with 60mm stem, but with 70 mm I get the position Paul is talking on Pinkbike . For Fugitive it means L with 50mm stem, while going for XL would mean 35mm stem. The short stem makes me hesitant with XL, as from experience on ROS9 with 50mm stem and 51mm offset, I know that 50/50 combo feels balanced to me. I think Minaar also was testing this and found out that stem more or less inline with offset give the most balanced feel.

    By the way I asked Noel this question. Will share when answer arrives.

  28. #28
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    I'm 5'9" and had thought that the large would be perfect until the geometry got stretched out. I'm going to have to demo. I recently built a hardtail with 470mm of reach and while I love it, I don't know if I want longer.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinat.PL View Post
    ...
    It's an upgrade in terms of modulation, power or both?

    My left hand, after the injury, is not particularly strong and finger control could be better. Hence I need a good modulation on the brakes with predictable bite point.
    Definitely more power in the codes power. Modulation is very good, but the power does come on quicker than the guides. I suppose from a modulation perspective they sit between an XT brade and a guide. I am running guides on my honzo (with fresh bleed and new levers) and codes on my SC N4. both get smashed on DH runs in Queenstown, NZ.
    2018 Nomad 4
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  30. #30
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    Fugitive build ideas & plans-gf.jpg

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinat.PL View Post

    I'm 182 and currently on L Chilcotin. I ride with 60mm stem, but with 70 mm I get the position Paul is talking on Pinkbike . For Fugitive it means L with 50mm stem, while going for XL would mean 35mm stem. The short stem makes me hesitant with XL, as from experience on ROS9 with 50mm stem and 51mm offset, I know that 50/50 combo feels balanced to me. I think Minaar also was testing this and found out that stem more or less inline with offset give the most balanced feel.

    By the way I asked Noel this question. Will share when answer arrives.
    I'm sorry, I haven't seen an e-mail or PM with your question, but I'll reply here

    At 182 you will definitely want an Large frame not an XL.

    Obviously bike geometry has changed a lot over the past 5 - 6 years and what we thought was pushing the envelope back in 2012 or 2014 is pretty much considered to be standard geometry now. The Fugitive will embrace these changes as the geometry measurements show, so please size correctly and don't try and size up or down just because you "think you need to". Additionally, with the advent of longer stroke dropper posts (default now being 175mm for most riders and up to 200mm where possible), we've accommodated that on these frames: this increases sizing flexibility as standover height becomes less of a concern for a given frame size.

    Cheers,
    Noel Buckley
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    At 182 you will definitely want an Large frame not an XL.
    Thanks for info! I wanted to go with L, but just wanted to be sure that my thinking is correct. I will test a few stem lengths, but now I now my starting point of 50mm and will go to 40mm, to see how it will perform.

  33. #33
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    After doing some research and deal hunting I managed to get the weight to around 15kg with full coil build.

    Also I think will go for a full custom paint job on that bike.

    Key changes vs. the original idea:

    Wheels:

    Ibis 942 on I9 - saved almost 400 grams and got sweet deal on them

    Cockpit:

    Lighter saddle - Ergon Comp
    Lighter bars - Syntace Vector 780 20mm rise.

    I got very good deal on those two as well and saving almost 200 grams.

    Details below:

    Fugitive build ideas & plans-screen-shot-2018-03-27-20.13.24.png

  34. #34
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    Great thread. I'd started my own thread before seeing your's - shame on me! Big thank you for putting such a detailed thread together.

    I'm pretty much in line for the type of build you're going for with durability, low maintenance and not too much carbon.

    Main differences for the build I'm considering:

    Full GX Eagle including the cranks; I just can't justify going carbon on the cranks because the weight savings is not that much and the added cost is significant.

    Yari at 150 with Avalanche cartridge. Great bang for the buck and I'll save the Yari cartridge to put in whenever I need to take the cartridge out for mods or unexpected maintenance. I get where you're coming from with coil, but I think this will be a pretty excellent fork.

    Float DPX2. I'm still considering coil, but I thought I'd try the DPX2 and then maybe send it to Avalanche for their mods. That said, considering I'd only be adding 90-100 grams for the coil, it's looking a bit more enticing.

    DT350 hubs laced to We Are One or Derby rims. Should be nice and light with great reliability, easy maintenance and decent 36t engagement.

    I'm still debating brakes. I don't care for the Guide RSCs that I currently have. They work, but the pistons often get out of sync and I have trouble getting them completely drag free. I'm debating between Hopes or Deore XT levers with Saint/Vee calipers. I love the idea of the Hopes, but I like that the Shimanos use mineral oil and pads are super easy to come by in a pinch.
    "So you think it's the hat?... A lot of people hate this hat. It angers a lot of people, just the sight of it." - Uncle Buck

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    Great thread. I'd started my own thread before seeing your's - shame on me! Big thank you for putting such a detailed thread together.

    I'm pretty much in line for the type of build you're going for with durability, low maintenance and not too much carbon.

    Main differences for the build I'm considering:

    Full GX Eagle including the cranks; I just can't justify going carbon on the cranks because the weight savings is not that much and the added cost is significant.

    Yari at 150 with Avalanche cartridge. Great bang for the buck and I'll save the Yari cartridge to put in whenever I need to take the cartridge out for mods or unexpected maintenance. I get where you're coming from with coil, but I think this will be a pretty excellent fork.

    Float DPX2. I'm still considering coil, but I thought I'd try the DPX2 and then maybe send it to Avalanche for their mods. That said, considering I'd only be adding 90-100 grams for the coil, it's looking a bit more enticing.

    DT350 hubs laced to We Are One or Derby rims. Should be nice and light with great reliability, easy maintenance and decent 36t engagement.

    I'm still debating brakes. I don't care for the Guide RSCs that I currently have. They work, but the pistons often get out of sync and I have trouble getting them completely drag free. I'm debating between Hopes or Deore XT levers with Saint/Vee calipers. I love the idea of the Hopes, but I like that the Shimanos use mineral oil and pads are super easy to come by in a pinch.
    The Avalance Yari is such a nice fork. Unless you want to get it reshimed changing oil is all you do.

  36. #36
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    Hi,
    This thread isn't just mine. It was meant for all to share build ideas. So maybe you could merge your thread with this one to keep things in the same place? If you don't mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    I'm still debating brakes. I don't care for the Guide RSCs that I currently have. They work, but the pistons often get out of sync and I have trouble getting them completely drag free. I'm debating between Hopes or Deore XT levers with Saint/Vee calipers. I love the idea of the Hopes, but I like that the Shimanos use mineral oil and pads are super easy to come by in a pinch.



    My view is that, regardless of my other personal considerations, for 29er brakes with good modulation can improve the ride a lot. With 29er acceleration, if you overbrake, isn't as easy as with 26er and you have way more grip, which means you should brake less. Hence any graby/anchor like brake could/would make your ride way less flowing, slower and more physically demanding.

    Above is the reason I'm reluctant to go Shimano, which can be had dirt cheap over here, and thinking going Hope. Guide were an option, but pricing here is on par with Hope's, so I'm not willing to take risks with them.

    If you still thinking Shimano and want less graby brakes, try the Gwin setup described a few post above by TakeTwo.

    Concerning carbon cranks. If you ride places like Finale Ligure they're an expensive proposition. Finale eats them, literally. For loamy places they're definitely an option.

    However seeing pedal inserts fall out of top RF cranks after a climb, I would be very, very careful, which brand of carbon cranks to buy. Broken or sheared off ankles are bitch to heal and rehab. Praxis maybe?

    Non of this will matter when Shimano will release their 12sp XTR with direct mount rings, which is to be launched end 2018 start 2019. You will get bomb proof uber light alu cranks with normal spindel. DUB? No faaking way

  37. #37
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    As someone who's got and ridden guides, XTs and Hopes. I'll never run anything but Hope on all my bikes from now on. I got caught with the sticking pistons with my guides but I'll admit the XTs have been going strong like XTs do for years. Great for a budget option but they've got no adjustment and they're really "on/off" in nature.

    Hope gives better modulation than guides with more power than XTs in a nice shiny machined aluminium package. Bleeding them is like bleeding car brakes, piece of piss. Plus, if for some reason you do break something in a crash then Hope will sell you replacement parts. Even for stuff that they made back in the early 2000's.

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    I have been on hydraulic brakes since 1998. Have used a slew of these and the XT seems to be superior to any others I have used. Two different pads available and you can even use one metal and one resin in each caliper if all metal is too much stopping power for you. No Hope ridden lately put their hubs are ridiculously loud. Brakes must be quiet, great modulation and not weigh too much. XT are a tad heavier than others but brakes and tires are the most important safety devises on our rides. So a bit more weight so I can have all the rest.

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    +1 here for hope brakes. I've been on m785 XTs, Guide RS and Hopes tech3 E4s.

    They have more stopping power than XTs and better modulation than guides. they are a bit more expensive but worth it. bleeding is very easy, no syringes or special tools needed. Pads last a long time and aren't really hard to come by, specially online.

    Plus they look really nice, and can be had in a lot of colors if you're into that sort of thing

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I'm 5'9" and had thought that the large would be perfect until the geometry got stretched out. I'm going to have to demo. I recently built a hardtail with 470mm of reach and while I love it, I don't know if I want longer.
    Remember though that on a hardtail reach will never be shorter than spec in riding (yes you can shorten it by adding a taller fork, wheel etc.) On a full sus it will vary depending on what you and the bike are doing at any given moment.

    Here's the Pipe dream at full fork compression:

    Fugitive build ideas & plans-screen-shot-2018-03-28-10.36.20-am.png
    Michael

    Ride on!

  41. #41
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    Demo day on 15 April
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  42. #42
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    That's the fork for my build : Helm 29

    Now CC needs to release T-mount Coil [IL]!

  43. #43
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    I am going with the SL build through Knolly, with the I9 enduro 305 wheels and DPX2 factory. I will run the Code RSC for a bit, but eventually I'll swap them out for either the M4s I have or orange E4s to match the frame. I'm having problems with my rear M4 piston sticking so I'm working on fixing that. I may also pick up a coil like the DBInline with CS for some fun, but we'll see. Can't wait to see what others are building up.
    2013 Kona Process
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  44. #44
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    When looking at these builds I am wondering a couple of things.

    1. Is it in fact true that the only difference in the LT vs regular model is the shock stroke?

    2. Have there been any confirmed timelines yet on when these will be available outside of the July time frame on Knolly site?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    When looking at these builds I am wondering a couple of things.

    1. Is it in fact true that the only difference in the LT vs regular model is the shock stroke?

    2. Have there been any confirmed timelines yet on when these will be available outside of the July time frame on Knolly site?
    Answers

    1. Yes, it is true that the 120mm travel "regular" and the 135 LT version of the Fugitive are the same frame: this was designed from the start to be the case. Certain metric shock lengths allow multiple OEM stoke lengths: in the case of the Fugitive, the frame uses a 185mm i2i trunnion shock. The "regular" 120mm Fugitive uses this shock with 50mm of stroke and the LT version of the frame uses the same shock but with 55mm of stroke which generates 135mm of rear travel. Technically, the shock is also capable of being set up with 52.5mm of stroke leading to ~127mm of rear travel, though Knolly won't offer the Fugitive from the factory with this setting.

    2. Yes, we are still working with this date for the first production run and have additional production runs scheduled afterwards in the late summer and early fall.

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Demo day on 15 April
    Maybe you reported on this somewhere else, but how did it go?
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  47. #47
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    Just got back from the Fugitive LT demo. Loved the combo of 4x4 and big wheels, traction plus. I tried a large pre-production with a 60 mm stem which has 15 mm less reach than the production model. I'm 5'9" and it didn't feel too big. Stem is longer than I prefer but it felt very natural to me on familiar trails. It has the long shock DPX2 and smoothed the chunk better than a Endo DPS. Cornering was planted but not sluggish. pedaling was maybe a bit better than an Endo, and I gelled with the steeper STA. Not sure what else to say, it was pretty much what I was expecting and I would be very happy with it. I gotta check for fit on the production frames though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fugitive build ideas & plans-20180415_085520.jpg  

    Fugitive build ideas & plans-20180415_085850.jpg  

    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  48. #48
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    In a couple of weeks my "local" dealer should have a Fugitive in L for tests. I will use all my persuasion skills to take the bike for a few days of testing. No idea what build it will come with. For the Euro guys, if you will be around south of Poland we can meet up and have a unofficial test session.

    I will also test the new Ritmo from Ibis to compare and evaluate carbon wheels and etc.

    PM me if you are interested in meeting up for a test.

  49. #49
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    MRP just released a coil shock with a climb switch. Fully adjustable compression and rebound.Also can get a progressive spring, not that I believe a Knolly would need one. If its simmilar enough to their other shocks, you can get it Avy tuned. This is good news for those that don't want to deal with a Cane Creek.

  50. #50
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    Fugitive just added to wish list !

  51. #51
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    I'm in the market for a new ride to replace my Sultan and the Fugitive looks like a winner. I run an XT 1*11 drive train currently and will swap over what I can. I'm guessing I'll need to get an XT boost crankset. What about the front ring? Is there a particular model I should run/consider? My current ring is a One Up oval.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Just got back from the Fugitive LT demo. Loved the combo of 4x4 and big wheels, traction plus. I tried a large pre-production with a 60 mm stem which has 15 mm less reach than the production model. I'm 5'9" and it didn't feel too big. Stem is longer than I prefer but it felt very natural to me on familiar trails. It has the long shock DPX2 and smoothed the chunk better than a Endo DPS. Cornering was planted but not sluggish. pedaling was maybe a bit better than an Endo, and I gelled with the steeper STA. Not sure what else to say, it was pretty much what I was expecting and I would be very happy with it. I gotta check for fit on the production frames though.
    Sweet Travis! You think you’d get the LT or less travel version?

    Those purple delirium’s look amazing! Have two girls have made pink and purple my favorite colors

  53. #53
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    Long travel would be my choice for the extra 15mm and to better match a 36 class fork.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  54. #54
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    Moff, I'm pretty sure you run a boost chainring flipped to get the chainline right with the 157 rear end.

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    Mozartt chainguide to match raw/orange


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    First post in maybe ~9 years...

    So I recently decided a Fugitive LT will be my next bike after a lengthy search process. I almost pulled the trigger on a Transition Smuggler Carbon, but felt I used the travel a little quickly when I demoed it, and wanted a little more tire clearance. So down the rabbit hole I went, and this is where I'm ending up.

    Frame - Fugitive LT w/ Fox DPX2, medium, in black cherry

    Fork - Fox 36 GRIP2, 44mm offset, 150mm travel to start

    Brakes - Shimano XT 4-piston, 200/180

    Drivetrain - Shimano 1x11, XTR shifter, XT derailleur, Garbaruk 10-46 11s cassette for XD driver, not sure about cranks yet, whatever chain I have lying around, there's probably some sort of Shimano in my spares box.

    Cockpit - RF Turbine 40mm stem, cheap aluminum riser bar, seat from some other bike maybe, lock on grips.

    Dropper - Not sure here. I like idea of the E13 because its dead simple, basically a Gravity Dropper with a remote and internal routing. Maybe a little heavy and clunky, but unlikely to ever fail on me in the middle of a huge trip. Also considering the Fox Transfer, because I can still get industry pricing on Fox stuff, and I'd like to rep the local product (Santa Cruz FTW!).

    Wheels - Here's where things get really interesting and I might be losing my mind. You see, I've loved the Enduro 29er that I'm on. Its a 2014, so really more trailbike than enduro sled, and generally excels in both directions. That said, I've been getting plus curious lately. A friend of mine who's never been a real ripper really impressed me on a recent trip to Idaho. He got on plus tires while living in Austin, TX and riding rocks, and he's really changed as a rider. WAY more confident going downhill.

    I've been historically averse to the idea of plus tires, since I pride myself on my cornering prowess, and I feel that plus tires squirm a little under heavy side loads, such as high speed cornering. The thing that's got me curious is an experience on a plus sized SJ FSR, where I was giggling like a child the whole time, along with some new parts available. Maxxis is making the High Roller II in a 3.0" casing, and there are more and more rims available for plus sized rubber. In particular, I'm considering rims with a 45mm internal width, under the theory that the wider stance could give plus tires the sidewall support needed for higher cornering speeds.

    The argument for this plan is that I had a lot of fun on the one demo I got on a plus bike, and isn't that what this is all about? Child-like giggling as you launch something silly? And I like trying new things, and this would be a new thing for me. I could always change my mind for the price of a wheelset swap...

    The arguments against are all fairly conservative (I generally distrust conservative arguments, as I feel they disregard historical progress and boil down to "we always did it this way", which is logically invalid as an argument). I know how 29er tires ride, and I like them, and I ride fast on them. I build wheels with cheap chinese carbon rims and good hubs, which ultimately are NOT cheap wheelsets, so a mistake here is expensive. I could just use a wider than average 29er rim and a 2.5-2.6" tire, and have kind of a middle ground between the two. A very safe option.

    I'm curious if anyone else has gotten plus tires to meed their cornering needs by using wider rims, and what you guys generally think of my hare-brained scheme. I'm leaning towards doing it, because even if I'm wrong, I could end up with two wheelsets, which might be kind of fun to play around with. And I could just end up giggling maniacally while tractoring over everything in site as fast as I'm willing to go.

  57. #57
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    One thing to consider when going for the plus size is the fact that, most of the plus tires have not very tough sidewalls. Where I ride Maxxis Exo usually means ripped sidewall sooner rather than later on the rear tire. Mostly during navigating tight trails with sharp rocks. Hence I will stick to 29 and DD in WT.

    And I ride very conservatively after wrecking my elbow the second time.

  58. #58
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    Been in contact with Knolly regarding the placement of the Di2 compartment and wanted to share what I found out from them:

    "The battery rests on the rounded channel on the frame guard and is strapped down with zap straps through the two slots on each end. The battery (attached to the guard) then slides into the downtube of the frame through the oval opening just forward of the BB. The cables are run through our standard compression cable guide at the top of the down tube."

    Fugitive build ideas & plans-bashguard.jpg

    Fugitive build ideas & plans-framebottom.jpg

    I'll be running an XT Di2 setup and will follow up with pics of the install when the time comes.
    "So you think it's the hat?... A lot of people hate this hat. It angers a lot of people, just the sight of it." - Uncle Buck

  59. #59
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    While I'm posting on build details for the Fugitive, thought I'd share the Robert Axle Project axle for the Fugitive:

    https://robertaxleproject.com/shop/t...-x-1-0-thread/

    I contacted Robert Axle directly to make sure this is the right part and received mine in the mail already. It is a BEEFY looking/feeling axle, but the biggest plus for me is the lack of an attached lever to get snagged and loosened on tight trails.
    "So you think it's the hat?... A lot of people hate this hat. It angers a lot of people, just the sight of it." - Uncle Buck

  60. #60
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    Thanks for posting this. I will be running Di2 as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    Been in contact with Knolly regarding the placement of the Di2 compartment and wanted to share what I found out from them:

    "The battery rests on the rounded channel on the frame guard and is strapped down with zap straps through the two slots on each end. The battery (attached to the guard) then slides into the downtube of the frame through the oval opening just forward of the BB. The cables are run through our standard compression cable guide at the top of the down tube."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'll be running an XT Di2 setup and will follow up with pics of the install when the time comes.

  61. #61
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    Large Raw frame
    2019 Grip2 36 150mm air shaft
    Fox DPS
    We Are One Agent wheels with DT 350
    Tires ???
    35 mm Atlas stem, 35mm clamp
    780 SICX bars
    Deity Knuckleduster grips
    160mm Bikeyoke Revive
    Anvil Forge saddle
    Next R 175mm cranks
    XTR Trail pedals or Kona Wah Wah 2
    28t RF oval ring, flipped
    XT 11 speed shifter and derailleur
    XT 11-42 cassette
    SRAM X1 chain
    Shimano XT brakes, 203mm F, 180mm R
    EDC tool
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  62. #62
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    Mine is similar....

    Large Raw frame
    Fox DPS Performance Elite (sending to Avalanche in the winter)
    Fox 36 Grip2 Performance Elite with HSC/LSC and 150mm airshaft (will see how the Grip2 damper is, might put in Avalanche cartridge)
    We Are One Agent wheels with Hope Pro4
    Maxxis DHF 2.5WT/Aggressor 2.4WT
    Hope 175mm cranks
    Hope B.B.
    Hope Headset
    Hope 30t Boost chainring flipped
    Shimano XT Di2 shifter/RD
    Shimano 11-46 cassette
    Shimano XT 4 piston brakes
    Bikeyoke Revive 160 or Fox Transfer 150 (waiting on pricing)
    Wolftooth Remote
    Deity Skyline 787 bars, 15mm rise, 9 deg backsweep
    Deity Copperhead 35mm/31.8mm stem (stem, handlebars and spacers will be switched around a lot first month or so)
    DMR Deathgrips
    DMR Vault pedals

    Certainly wont be the lightest/cheapest/burliest, but wont be the heaviest/most expensive/wimpiest either. Goal was high quality, low maintenance and cost effective.




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  63. #63
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    Mine is going to be like this:

    XL Raw LT frame with DPX2 kashima
    2019 Grip2 36 150mm 44offset
    Renthal Carbon bars
    Renthal Apex stem
    Ergon GE1 grips
    Shimano Saint brakes (203/180)
    BikeYoke Revive 185mm
    Wheels : i9 torch / Sapim CX ray / carbon rims (internal 32-external 38,4 - profile 30mm)
    schwalbe Magic Mary / Dans Dampf 2.35
    Shimano XT 11sp shifter/RD/cassete (due for XTR 12sp )
    Cane Creek eewings crankset - no idea about chainring yet
    WTB saddle
    DMR Vault Bredog signature pedals

  64. #64
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    Man, lots of love for the Fox 36 in here! I'm looking at a new fork for the Endo at the moment, kinda weighing up between the Helm and Ribbon, but the consensus here seems almost unanimous for the 36...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Man, lots of love for the Fox 36 in here! I'm looking at a new fork for the Endo at the moment, kinda weighing up between the Helm and Ribbon, but the consensus here seems almost unanimous for the 36...
    I would’ve gone with the Ribbon or maybe even the Lyrik, but the price I can get on the Fox 36 makes it a no brainer for me, especially as I’d like to get the Avalanche cartridge in there when funds allow. Actually, if Rockshox still made a 150mm Pike 29 fork or the Manitou forks were available in 150mm for 29er, I would likely have gone with one of those two! So, Fox 36 was actually 3rd or 4th choice for me, but I’m sure it will be awesome.


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  66. #66
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    True, between the 36, Pike/Lyric. Ribbon, Helm, DVO etc we're spoiled for choice with enduro/AM forks I guess. I'm stuck paying retail so I'm thankfully spared the agony of chosing between what I can get deals on and what I really want...

  67. #67
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    44mm Ribbon coil here. Love that fork and also love the fact it takes 20 mins to change the travel.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    44mm Ribbon coil here. Love that fork and also love the fact it takes 20 mins to change the travel.
    Do you have some time on it? Mine is sitting in the garage waiting for the frame. I am stoked to ride it. Haven’t really seen much feedback from people who have ridden one yet.


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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    I would’ve gone with the Ribbon or maybe even the Lyrik, but the price I can get on the Fox 36 makes it a no brainer for me, especially as I’d like to get the Avalanche cartridge in there when funds allow. Actually, if Rockshox still made a 150mm Pike 29 fork or the Manitou forks were available in 150mm for 29er, I would likely have gone with one of those two! So, Fox 36 was actually 3rd or 4th choice for me, but I’m sure it will be awesome.


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    Yari is the best option if you plan on going with the Avy cartridge. I did this and loved it, just installed the push coil conversion kit and it's the best form I have ever ridden!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Yari is the best option if you plan on going with the Avy cartridge. I did this and loved it, just installed the push coil conversion kit and it's the best form I have ever ridden!
    That was my original plan, but I got the 36 cheaper than I could get a Yari! According to Craig, both chassis work just as well for the Avalanche cartridge. In the meantime, I’ll ride the Grip2 and see how I like it.


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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    That was my original plan, but I got the 36 cheaper than I could get a Yari! According to Craig, both chassis work just as well for the Avalanche cartridge. In the meantime, I’ll ride the Grip2 and see how I like it.


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    Wow, I got the Yari for 400.00 new. But the Grip is better than Motion control.

  72. #72
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    The ribbon sounds like a great fork, but I am sure enjoying my 36 with a luft kappe.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    FWIW - Our local-ish CC service centre charges the same price for an air or coil CC Inline rebuild. If you go direct to CC it's $10 cheaper to do a coil Inline service....$150 vs. $160.

    The service intervals for the air & coil shocks are the same as it's based on the damper not the type of spring used.
    It's now $197 for the CC IL service at SW. So, that's like $2/h given this is a 100h service interval? Seems like their rates have jumped quite a bit more than regular inflation rates..

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by islander View Post
    It's now $197 for the CC IL service at SW. So, that's like $2/h given this is a 100h service interval? Seems like their rates have jumped quite a bit more than regular inflation rates..
    Just had a CCBDA/CS serviced at SW for $153 CDN. My DBA [IL] last fall was ~$149 CDN.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  75. #75
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    I see most people are planning on a fork with the reduced offset 44mm. Does everyone feel its necessary? I have a new mrp ribbon coil in 51mm offset ready to rumble. I am curious if i should start looking at reduced offset options or not. Currently leaning toward running what i have and see how it rides.


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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by the cracker View Post
    I see most people are planning on a fork with the reduced offset 44mm. Does everyone feel its necessary? I have a new mrp ribbon coil in 51mm offset ready to rumble. I am curious if i should start looking at reduced offset options or not. Currently leaning toward running what i have and see how it rides.
    It's not necessary. I would just run with the fork you have.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  77. #77
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    Great ideas for builds and thanks for the info on mine coming up.. XL blue fug LT with DPX2 coil with 600lb spring.

    question: Has anyone tried and have Velocity Blunt I35 29er rims? Looking to lace some good alum ALL BLACK rims with a wide profile to Hadley hubs. Would love to plunk down for We Are One wheelset but over budget then... hummm...

    thanks!
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    Great ideas for builds and thanks for the info on mine coming up.. XL blue fug LT with DPX2 coil with 600lb spring.

    question: Has anyone tried and have Velocity Blunt I35 29er rims? Looking to lace some good alum ALL BLACK rims with a wide profile to Hadley hubs. \

    thanks!
    I ran the Blunts on my Turner Burner and it always seemed like the alloy used was on the soft side. I say this because I managed to dent 3 separate rims quite badly. On a positive note, the rims always held air, even after getting damaged and I was able to make it back to the trailhead each time. I bent two of the rims back into shape, the third was bent so badly that I didn’t want to risk riding on it after. Now, I may have just had bad luck with the Blunts and/or happened to make dumb decisions while riding them, but that was my experience.


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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    I ran the Blunts on my Turner Burner and it always seemed like the alloy used was on the soft side. I say this because I managed to dent 3 separate rims quite badly. On a positive note, the rims always held air, even after getting damaged and I was able to make it back to the trailhead each time. I bent two of the rims back into shape, the third was bent so badly that I didn’t want to risk riding on it after. Now, I may have just had bad luck with the Blunts and/or happened to make dumb decisions while riding them, but that was my experience.


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    thanks buddy! Interesting. I want Peace of mind in the wheelset like I have on my Chilly... but different machine I know. I'm 255 so need some security on the way I ride too... Do you know any other bombproof rim/wheels out there? Still on the fence on if I just should max out Credit Card on the We Are One wheels.
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    thanks buddy! Interesting. I want Peace of mind in the wheelset like I have on my Chilly... but different machine I know. I'm 255 so need some security on the way I ride too... Do you know any other bombproof rim/wheels out there? Still on the fence on if I just should max out Credit Card on the We Are One wheels.
    I am a similar weight as you. I went with raceface arc 30 rims. Had great experience with them on my trance. A buddy uses them as well and hes 300lbs. He turns like no bodies business and rides hard. I am also a fan of the wtb asym rim. They have eyelets and are very durable, little heavy though. I am keen on the new KOM rims from wtb now that they are releasing a wider version. I just looked into the We Are One stuff because i was unfamiliar, looks super nice and i love their deal. If i was in the market with some cash, id do that.


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  81. #81
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    Alex Volar 3.0 look like good alternative to the Blunts.
    They also come in micro sizes if you still have a 26er in the stable.

    http://www.alexrims.com/products/volar-3-0/
    Hatched in 1964
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  82. #82
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    Alex Volar 3.0 sounds good.. I'll check them out also! thanks! I'm looking at the DT Swiss E532 also.. good rim it looks like and keeps cost down.

    Ok guys.. serious.. going with the Fox 36 Factory fork.. should I get orange or matte black?? I have the blue fug coming with the coil dhx2..orange ti coil. Too much ????
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  83. #83
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    Orange Fox for sure .

  84. #84
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    ahhh thanks.. but you know how bright that will be.... just trying to picture it somewhat. Don't know if I want some kind of offset tone or a nice clown build.
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    ahhh thanks.. but you know how bright that will be.... just trying to picture it somewhat. Don't know if I want some kind of offset tone or a nice clown build.
    It doesn’t look bad on a Yeti. Colors aren’t that different .

  86. #86
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    That Gulf blue is just begging for an orange fork IMO, I haven't seen one but to me it always looks not-quite-finished with a plain black fork.

    I've just picked up a used 36 with orange lowers and black stanchions for my red Endo, going to be interesting but the price was right so colour matching be damned! I'm sure someone with black lowers would be willing to swap if it looks as dreadful as I suspect....

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    Still on the fence on if I just should max out Credit Card on the We Are One wheels.
    Just do it!

  88. #88
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    Lot‘s of love for the raw which would have been my first choice also but is sold out in L and XL from my source... wife wanted the classy Le Mans blue so I went with the Black Cherry. Will pair that with greyish and bling polished parts (e.g will try the new Formula brakes after happy years on the previous generation of Shimanos).
    Ordered the wives Fugitive LT with the DPX2 factory and mine with the RS Super Deluxe - will try them both on my bike and then decide which one to keep ... I’m a ba$tard, I know ...

  89. #89
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    Well prob going orange then! Yeah saw the Yeti with that fork and shock and not that bad. Funny I'm going from an all Black Knolly to this Gulf blue...can't wait to see it in person. love it.

    Has anyone been on the DPX2 by the way? I'm coming from a CCDB coil... I just learned CC is offered now on the KNOLLY site with frame or package!

    David R gotta put a pic up when you can of the red / orange endo!
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    That Gulf blue is just begging for an orange fork IMO, I haven't seen one but to me it always looks not-quite-finished with a plain black fork.

    I've just picked up a used 36 with orange lowers and black stanchions for my red Endo, going to be interesting but the price was right so colour matching be damned! I'm sure someone with black lowers would be willing to swap if it looks as dreadful as I suspect....
    I ordered 2 Fugitives and I was hoping for orange Fox forks but even with the right connection I couldn't have it in the build kits.
    I would swap if the red Endo with orange fork looks silly.
    Last edited by M4rc0; 07-26-2018 at 03:50 PM.

  91. #91
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    Thanks, but I don't think 27.5 and 29er lowers are interchangeable? And I'm in New Zealand too, might be easier to find someone local to me.

  92. #92
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    I use to live in NZ, and my in-laws are still there.
    Maybe I can cut the lowers and extend them.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
    Well prob going orange then! Yeah saw the Yeti with that fork and shock and not that bad. Funny I'm going from an all Black Knolly to this Gulf blue...can't wait to see it in person. love it.

    Has anyone been on the DPX2 by the way? I'm coming from a CCDB coil... I just learned CC is offered now on the KNOLLY site with frame or package!

    David R gotta put a pic up when you can of the red / orange endo!
    Im going from the black Warden Carbon to the Blue Fug LT .
    Last edited by CHROMAG19; 07-26-2018 at 10:34 PM.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4rc0 View Post
    I use to live in NZ, and my in-laws are still there.
    Maybe I can cut the lowers and extend them.

    Can of spraypaint and some new decals might be easier...

    Looking forward to seeing some of these bikes built up and out in the wild.

  95. #95
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    This was waiting for me when i got home. What a nice gesture. Solid move Knolly. I am very much looking forward to hitting the trail on the Fugitive soon. Thank you.




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  96. #96
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    Nice.
    Safe riding,

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by the cracker View Post
    This was waiting for me when i got home. What a nice gesture. Solid move Knolly. I am very much looking forward to hitting the trail on the Fugitive soon. Thank you.




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    My shop just called and let me know that they’ve got a gift from Knolly -and not my frame- waiting. I will definitely put it to use!


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  98. #98
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    Classy move Knolly! I am sure the fugitive will be worth the wait, as frustrating as it is.

  99. #99
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    I got the same thing in my mail box. It's a really nice surprise.
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  100. #100
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    I wish my flask was full when it arrived. Oh well, still a nice gesture.

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