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  1. #1
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    Delirium and Podium - thoughts?

    Sticking with the current Knolly board's theme of the week....

    I am considering a Knolly Podium, but not sure of overlap, if there is any need, or if it is the playful bike that I am looking for, so I opening it up for input....

    First, I am not selling my Delirium - to me, it is "the" bike. If I were to get a Podium, I would lighten the Delirium up tad (probably not by much if any). For the most part, I would have a dedicated longer travel shuttle/park bike which would eliminate swapping wheels, tires, forks, and seatposts on the Delirium. We shuttle a fair bit throughout the year, hit the local (4hrs away) park a few times in the summer, some out of town weekend trips here and there, and 1 week in Whistler. I have done all of this on the Delirium with minimal limitations. Most shuttles, I stick with standard setup and don't swap gear out. I definitely change things out for the parks. In the end, I would have a dedicated AM/FR bike and FR/DH bike, which would be awesome...but I am not 100% on this.

    Some questions...
    1) Will the Podium be a lot more fun and confidence inspiring for shuttles and parks? Key word -fun !
    2) The Podium is a DH race bike, but I am not a DH racer, will I miss the more playful behavior of the Delirium with its shorter wheelbase, chainstays and steeper head angle? When I go to the parks, I like to play (as we all do) which revolves around jumping, drops, and technical sections. If I am not the first one down the hill, no worries.
    3) Follow-up question, should I consider a different bike/brand to achieve my desires? If so any recommendation? I have a few in mind.
    4) Or should I just stick with the Delirium ?

    Concerns
    There have been a number of Podiums for sale over the last year considering that there has only been one Delirium for sale. This raises some concern. I wonder if folks either got too much bike, if the Podium was too much in the DH race category, or they didn't like it.

    In writing this, I think I answered my question, but I appreciate any input!

  2. #2
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    April Fools!

    You are joking right? A month ago you and Dom were the poster children for the Delirium being the one bike with a 40 on it. Dom even went as far as selling his DH bike. I personally have never ridden a Podium but I would think they werent as nimble as a Delirium when it comes to tight and twistly. I dont see the need for a DH bike for my riding. I think a better rider can do more on a smaller bike, DH bikes for non-racers are a crutch IMO.

  3. #3
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    You need to get better so you can just go ride your "one" bike!
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  4. #4
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    I have a Delerium and bought a Podium this year. Have only had a few rides on the Podium, but it is a different beast for sure. While I'm still working on dialing it in, my thoughts are (in no coherent order) as such:

    - Fast. Wow it's fast. Like, I shouldn't be riding this like this fast. Riding a trail that I'm familiar with, I'll come into a familiar section and have to manual or gap something that I don't normally, simply because I'm coming in faster than I'm used to, or expect.
    - Aggressive riding stance. I can tell when I get cautious as the bike starts punishing me... but when I get into a proper aggressive stance, the bike really responds... which is where that first point starts happening. I'm hoping that because this bike forces you to ride more aggressively, that learning will translate over to how I ride my other bikes (I have a pretty typical Shore bad habit of being off the back of my bike too much)
    - Smooth. Lots of travel, all the same great travel characteristics I loved about my V-Tach, DT, Delerium (yeah, yeah, it's a problem) and now this.... but endless travel on a 8.4inch rear end is really damned bottomless. And considering it's about 6 pounds lighter than my old V-Tach... well that's great.


    Ok, that's the Podium. Is there overlap with the Delerium? Maybe some, but I'm using the Podium for shuttle only or park. And it shines in that area. Delerium is going on a diet now, and for the more pedally mountains, it should be make for a pretty stellar 1, 2 quiver.


    EDIT: As for the "is it as playful". I know what you're saying, when I first tried the DT while owning the V-tach, I couldn't believe how 'poppy' the bike was. Give it a flick and a kick and it really liked popping up and over stuff, that playful quality sold me on it. Delerium was really just more of the same, but refined and improved. Podium does not feel that way to me (again - given only a handful of rides on a local trail), it feels much more aggressive, like it wants to get back onto the ground so that it can keep going.
    Last edited by Couch_Surfer; 04-01-2011 at 01:56 PM.

  5. #5
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    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Couch_Surfer
    I have a Delerium and bought a Podium this year. Have only had a few rides on the Podium, but it is a different beast for sure. While I'm still working on dialing it in, my thoughts are (in no coherent order) as such:

    - Fast. Wow it's fast. Like, I shouldn't be riding this like this fast. Riding a trail that I'm familiar with, I'll come into a familiar section and have to manual or gap something that I don't normally, simply because I'm coming in faster than I'm used to, or expect.
    - Aggressive riding stance. I can tell when I get cautious as the bike starts punishing me... but when I get into a proper aggressive stance, the bike really responds... which is where that first point starts happening. I'm hoping that because this bike forces you to ride more aggressively, that learning will translate over to how I ride my other bikes (I have a pretty typical Shore bad habit of being off the back of my bike too much)
    - Smooth. Lots of travel, all the same great travel characteristics I loved about my V-Tach, DT, Delerium (yeah, yeah, it's a problem) and now this.... but endless travel on a 8.4inch rear end is really damned bottomless. And considering it's about 6 pounds lighter than my old V-Tach... well that's great.


    Ok, that's the Podium. Is there overlap with the Delerium? Maybe some, but I'm using the Podium for shuttle only or park. And it shines in that area. Delerium is going on a diet now, and for the more pedally mountains, it should be make for a pretty stellar 1, 2 quiver.


    EDIT: As for the "is it as playful". I know what you're saying, when I first tried the DT while owning the V-tach, I couldn't believe how 'poppy' the bike was. Give it a flick and a kick and it really liked popping up and over stuff, that playful quality sold me on it. Delerium was really just more of the same, but refined and improved. Podium does not feel that way to me (again - given only a handful of rides on a local trail), it feels much more aggressive, like it wants to get back onto the ground so that it can keep going.
    Thanks Couch Surfer - very valuable info!!! I Having a review by someone who has ridden both is important!

    Between Couch Surfer, Craig, Dom's (offline) comments, and my own thoughts at the end of writing the initial request, I will not be pursuing a Podium.

    It is a sexy beast though!!!

  6. #6
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    ...

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    Last edited by craigstr; 04-01-2011 at 03:24 PM. Reason: whoops

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude!
    Thanks Couch Surfer - very valuable info!!! I Having a review by someone who has ridden both is important!

    Between Couch Surfer, Craig, Dom's (offline) comments, and my own thoughts at the end of writing the initial request, I will not be pursuing a Podium.

    It is a sexy beast though!!!
    If you go to Whistler, you should take one for a rip. You may change your mind pretty quickly....

  8. #8
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    The Podium can be fun. You have to dial your suspension based on what you're riding. I normally ride it with the normal DH setup, soft almost fully open to gobble up bumps, rocks and chunk. While this works beautifully in DH conditions, it is horrible on jump lines with doubles, step-ups and drops, where the suspension sucked up all my speed. What I needed to do was crank up the compression settings on the fork and shock and the difference was night and day. Different handling and flickableness

    While it is very capable in the air, the "fun" factor is lacking a little because of the dual crown fork. I like to turn my bar a little more on some jumps and with a dual crown, it only goes so far. I love both bikes though... some days I want to ride a little differently than the next. Sort of like surfing a shortboard or a longboard, I surf at the same spot pretty much always. Some days it all depends on what mood I'm in. That's kind of how I look at the 2 bikes. They obviously are different machines and it just comes down to expanding your riding stoke.

    You can't go wrong with owning both.

  9. #9
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    Couchsurfer and OldSchoolBMXer have way more experience and insight with the Podium than I do. I rode one for a day in Whistler and never really got used to it. It did however influence my building a Delirium.

    The Podium was fun, but a very different beast. The bars were a good 3" wider than mine and much lower. The bottom bracket is LOW. I can understand how this would be an advantage running down some of the steep and crazy double blacks at Whistler. For an average rider like me, the Delirium works better in every situation I would put it in.
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  10. #10
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    This weekend I found my Delerium's sweet spot, and it looked like this:



    Thing floats like a DH rig and climbs like a trail bike. I did this epic type ride with a fair amount of uphill stuff and did pretty well leading the pack most of the way up and styled the descents. Some might have called it overkill, but I found it fun and encouraging in a twisted way. I will never be able to expect anything less from that trail now. Damn. For a while after I demoed that MojoHD I wondered if I made a mistake. Well, the anwer is now known; We don't need no stinkin Mojo and the Chilly might look like a lighter WS and shock for my Delerium too.

    Anyhow, so it seems some folks were saying it depends on how the bike is built and set up changes the character so much, which is the hallmark of a Knolly, and particularly with the Delerium. So a wee higher CG and snappier stays might be the real difference from a Delerium perspective, which makes it really fun but not a super racey set up. For me I don't do enough pure DH to warrant the expense of a dedicated rig, and this set up feels pretty DH'illy to me, just need to throw on an X-Fusion coil and I am set for just about any DH and the majority of the HD trail biking/FR that I do. Giggity! But I think I'll still keep a 170 and/or 180 around for B/U's and dedicated lesser riding.

    I'd say consider trying a DC on your rig and perhaps demoing a Podium and see what you think.

  11. #11
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    Yep!

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    This weekend I found my Delerium's sweet spot, and it looked like this:



    Thing floats like a DH rig and climbs like a trail bike. I did this epic type ride with a fair amount of uphill stuff and did pretty well leading the pack most of the way up and styled the descents. Some might have called it overkill, but I found it fun and encouraging in a twisted way. I will never be able to expect anything less from that trail now. Damn. For a while after I demoed that MojoHD I wondered if I made a mistake. Well, the anwer is now known; We don't need no stinkin Mojo and the Chilly might look like a lighter WS and shock for my Delerium too.

    Anyhow, so it seems some folks were saying it depends on how the bike is built and set up changes the character so much, which is the hallmark of a Knolly, and particularly with the Delerium. So a wee higher CG and snappier stays might be the real difference from a Delerium perspective, which makes it really fun but not a super racey set up. For me I don't do enough pure DH to warrant the expense of a dedicated rig, and this set up feels pretty DH'illy to me, just need to throw on an X-Fusion coil and I am set for just about any DH and the majority of the HD trail biking/FR that I do. Giggity! But I think I'll still keep a 170 and/or 180 around for B/U's and dedicated lesser riding.

    I'd say consider trying a DC on your rig and perhaps demoing a Podium and see what you think.
    After test riding Dom's 40 and because scratched it, I bought a Kashima Fox 40 for the Delirium (actually bough Dom a new one and took the scratched one). It felt perfect on the Delirium and not over forked. It felt very natural and boy does it handle the aggressiveness much better . I actually did three drops with 30 minute climbs, no problem. Very confidence inspiring - it felt like a perfect mini-DH bike. I will use the fox 40 for the parks. The acquisition of the Fox 40 occurred after my injury.

    Most shuttle days around us, I am okay with Fox 170mm Float.

    I did demo for 2 runs a Podium in Whistler but the suspension was setup poorly and I didn't want to waste any more runs on that bike.

    The comments about the differences in the two bikes have been outstanding - very beneficial.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13
    The Podium was fun, but a very different beast. The bars were a good 3" wider than mine and much lower. The bottom bracket is LOW. I can understand how this would be an advantage running down some of the steep and crazy double blacks at Whistler. For an average rider like me, the Delirium works better in every situation I would put it in.
    Another day at the office with the Delirium. I haven't thought about putting a double crown on it... but that'd be worth trying out. Only thing is, I dread taking this bike apart, it's in about the best riding condition it's ever been.


  13. #13
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    Dude...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldschoolBMXer
    Another day at the office with the Delirium. I haven't thought about putting a double crown on it... but that'd be worth trying out. Only thing is, I dread taking this bike apart, it's in about the best riding condition it's ever been.

    Nice picture!!!! Nice office!

    Note - DC does void the Delirium warranty!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude!

    Note - DC does void the Delirium warranty!

    Bummer, but I can see that might be a problem with it raked out to 64 degrees and ridden rabidly. I think that mine is dialed in at @ 65,which the frame is built to handle. I'm not too worried about it pulling an Intense 951 on me, plus where I ride the wee extra BB height also helps.

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    ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Bummer, but I can see that might be a problem with it raked out to 64 degrees and ridden rabidly. I think that mine is dialed in at @ 65,which the frame is built to handle. I'm not too worried about it pulling an Intense 951 on me, plus where I ride the wee extra BB height also helps.
    It shouldn't be a problem, but I am not going to ride with the dual crown all of the time - no need. Probably 10-20%. I also dropped the internal travel to match the appropriate A2C.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude!
    Note - DC does void the Delirium warranty!
    Good to know. I think the frame can probably handle it though. But another reason to keep it the way it is.

  17. #17
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    Damn, looks like it be time to set the dishes.
    Well done.

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  18. #18
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    Uhhh!????? Knollyitis strikes again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude!
    Thanks Couch Surfer - very valuable info!!! I Having a review by someone who has ridden both is important!

    Between Couch Surfer, Craig, Dom's (offline) comments, and my own thoughts at the end of writing the initial request, I will not be pursuing a Podium.

    It is a sexy beast though!!!

    Just thought I'd drag this one up so that we both could eat our own words!


    After much deliberation on Jamie's (Dude!) part and me not wanting to be eating too much of his dust, we'll be sporting some Podiumness soon. As all of you know by now, we'll post plenty of pics, riding and bike, and try to give our best reviews.

    Our thoughts behind this and not going with another DH bike were simple. The Podium seems to be a larger version, or "big brother" of the Delirium. The delirium rides like no other bike we've ridden. The bike "becomes one with the trail and you can feel the trail through the bike" - Dude!. It pops, it pedals and it DH's all in one bike! The suspension that we've grown accustomed to and love has just become, well, more so. People seem to have shyed away from the Podium due to the "hard edge hits" of the Knolly suspension. Well, after riding it for 8 months, we've found out that it's the perfect suspension for pedalability, popping and plushness.

    As for the Delirium and building it into a DH/FR bike with a DC, it works...just not as well as a true DH bike should. Even on a Large I felt like I was just "short". That's the only way to describe it. I'm assuming that all of that feeling will go away with the Podium!? In reality we have all the components for the Podium, just need the frame.

    Long story short....Noel you've done it again and we took the bait hook, line and sinker and are looking forward to another fun ride season on an awe inspiring bike!

    Build pics to come soon.
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  19. #19
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    Uhm...nevermind...I forgot what I was going to say.

  20. #20
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    ........

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominator13

    Just thought I'd drag this one up so that we both could eat our own words!


    After much deliberation on Jamie's (Dude!) part and me not wanting to be eating too much of his dust, we'll be sporting some Podiumness soon. As all of you know by now, we'll post plenty of pics, riding and bike, and try to give our best reviews.

    Our thoughts behind this and not going with another DH bike were simple. The Podium seems to be a larger version, or "big brother" of the Delirium. The delirium rides like no other bike we've ridden. The bike "becomes one with the trail and you can feel the trail through the bike" - Dude!. It pops, it pedals and it DH's all in one bike! The suspension that we've grown accustomed to and love has just become, well, more so. People seem to have shyed away from the Podium due to the "hard edge hits" of the Knolly suspension. Well, after riding it for 8 months, we've found out that it's the perfect suspension for pedalability, popping and plushness.

    As for the Delirium and building it into a DH/FR bike with a DC, it works...just not as well as a true DH bike should. Even on a Large I felt like I was just "short". That's the only way to describe it. I'm assuming that all of that feeling will go away with the Podium!? In reality we have all the components for the Podium, just need the frame.

    Long story short....Noel you've done it again and we took the bait hook, line and sinker and are looking forward to another fun ride season on an awe inspiring bike!

    Build pics to come soon.
    Funny ! Yep, eating our words! Dom summed it up perfectly.

    As mentioned in another post - Err's recent post on the single-crown Podium and some offline comments - highlight how the Podium can be setup for different terrains/behaviors - this versatility appealed to us. The Podium looks amazing and 8.5 inches of Knolly suspension is going to be fun!

    We are both excited about building up Podiums (particularly for Whistler). Dom is a way deal maker than me - he bought a DH bike, sold it for more money, bought a Podium/parts/etc, which will be built up probably by tomorrow. This is after I told him I told him I bought one. He must have MiracleGrow in his brain, because once the seed is planted - it grows to a full plant in a day!

    Both of us getting Podiums will be cool, as we will feed off each other in dialing it in and will pass this info along.

    I am excited!

  21. #21
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    Oh, I remember now....You guys have a sickness. I think there is a 12 step program for that.

  22. #22
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    Dom - I am trying to rack my brain and remember what rig you were on before, Jedi with a Woodie if I am correct. If I am right, I am really keen to hear your thoughts comparing the Jedi to the Podium. I have been struggling a bit with getting my Jedi to pop off jumps and get more lively for things like doubling rocks etc. I sent my Elka in for a check up today as I have my suspicions it is not quite right. When I get back I will see if it helps and play with a few more clicks. I would love to try a Woodie but I am reluctant to spend more money on a shock when I cant be sure it would sort things out. The Podium seems to be a real race bike - long stays, long WB and slack HA. I am not a racer but the Jedi has me going faster and faster, I prefer responsive to very stable however the idea that it pops has me interested cause I also think the Delerium is the best bike I have ridden to date, a bigger brother with the same traits would so sweet.
    I just want to ride.

  23. #23
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    Yep!

    Quote Originally Posted by juan pablo View Post
    Dom - I am trying to rack my brain and remember what rig you were on before, Jedi with a Woodie if I am correct. If I am right, I am really keen to hear your thoughts comparing the Jedi to the Podium. I have been struggling a bit with getting my Jedi to pop off jumps and get more lively for things like doubling rocks etc. I sent my Elka in for a check up today as I have my suspicions it is not quite right. When I get back I will see if it helps and play with a few more clicks. I would love to try a Woodie but I am reluctant to spend more money on a shock when I cant be sure it would sort things out. The Podium seems to be a real race bike - long stays, long WB and slack HA. I am not a racer but the Jedi has me going faster and faster, I prefer responsive to very stable however the idea that it pops has me interested cause I also think the Delerium is the best bike I have ridden to date, a bigger brother with the same traits would so sweet.
    JP-
    I did have an '08 Jedi. It was great bike. I believe that it suits someone who rides more technical rocky trails than I do. Also, I believe that it never was able to show it's true potential due to my lack of techy gnar experience. Up here in Santa Cruz the trails are relatively smooth. I took it to Northstar and it really shined up there. However, in Whistler, it felt sluggish due to the flatter jump trails. When we were in the gnar it felt good, but I think most DH bikes would. The Woodie made my Jedi come alive. Honestly, it felt like crap with the DHX 5.0 on it. I think that Elka is custom tuning, so I'd wait for that before I bought a Woodie. But, you can't go wrong with Avalanche!

    As far as the Podium goes, I've ridden one trail only with it and it's a mix of gnar, turns and steeps. It really is a great bike. Immediately, I felt right at home as if I was on a longer version of the Delirium. It eats everything up.....not as much as my buddies CV-10, but still it is a Knolly and I knew what I was getting. I spoke to Err a bit about his thoughts and he confirmed what Jamie and I decided. That this would be the best bike for the type of riding we do, lots of smooth speed, turns and jumps. Not too say it doesn't handle the chop. It is the DH version of the Delirium...that's it!

    I have yet to take it jumping. I am really excited about that aspect.
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  24. #24
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    Thanks for the feedback Dom. I am looking forward to getting the Elka back and doing some more fine tuning. I hope it works as I dont really want to spend anymore money on a new shock or frame. Any Avy purchases will be for the Delerium.The Jedi is great through gnar and the faster the better. It just seems to feel a little sluggish and this also has a lot to do with my style of riding. looking forward to your Podium ride reports and build.
    I just want to ride.

  25. #25
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    Build is in here!

    Quote Originally Posted by juan pablo View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Dom. I am looking forward to getting the Elka back and doing some more fine tuning. I hope it works as I dont really want to spend anymore money on a new shock or frame. Any Avy purchases will be for the Delerium.The Jedi is great through gnar and the faster the better. It just seems to feel a little sluggish and this also has a lot to do with my style of riding. looking forward to your Podium ride reports and build.


    Here is the Podium build next to the Delirium.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=713246
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  26. #26
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    I'm a long-term Knolly guy. I've had a V-Tach and last year I upgraded from an older to a newer Delirium. I love the Delerium. I'm running it with a 180 Talas and for most Shore riding it's the perfect bike.

    I recently bought a 2011 Demo for shuttles and Whistler. Here's what I learned.

    Compared to the Delirium, the Demo is downright low and long. Likes to stick to the ground. The Delirium is playful and poppy. The Demo is not. The Demo does not like to ride slow. The Delirium works in a huge range of play.

    I can do everything on my Delirium that I can on my Demo. The difference being the Demo is faster over rougher terrain and offers a much wider margin for error but is all but useless if the trail turns uphill.

    The Delirium is a one-bike quiver and it overlaps hugely with the Demo. When I have the Demo I wish the Delirium was a Chilcotin. When you have two bikes they may as well be very distinct.

    Now that I've become so comfortable on my Delirium I wish I had bought a smaller bike to round out my quiver, not a bigger one. So I'm going to sell the Demo, beef up my Delirium to become my official 'bigger' bike and get a Chilcotin when they become available.

  27. #27
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    Very cool knolly vid on pinkbike with the delirium and the podium. At least I think the single crown bike is the delirium.

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/25093922?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/25093922">Garett Buehlers Homeland</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1695372">Knolly Bikes</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

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