Curiosity, Speculation, My two cents- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Curiosity, Speculation, My two cents

    So as we wait for the Chilcotins and Endos to be put to the dirt, I am thinking ahead to this "SL". What will it take to earn the" SL"? ..Obviously "experimenting with other materials"= carbon. But what else? I got to thinking about changes in MTBing since the changes to the Chilcotin were made (specifically 142x12). There have been alot of changes that I have fought and alot that I thought were great.

    So I was thinking about changes that could be made to an SL before it's release and dare I say, I want it to be a 29er? Now hear me out, I have never thrown a leg over a bike with big wheels but maybe it's time. It seems like 29er have found there place in hardtails and short travel xc bikes and when I think about the trails I want an SL for, why not have big wheels to boot?

    When the new Endo's do show up, I imagine that the light builds will be around 25 pounds and that is as light as I dare go on a bike with 140mm of travel. So, if the SL is carbon, that will only take off another 1-1.5 pounds and reduce travel to 120ish, and the builds will be in the 22-23 pound range and that hard to justify needing. If I am going to have multiple bike, I need them to be different enough and my dream collection now looks like this:
    Delirium (36lbs, CCDB, 180mm fork, 2.5 dh tires) for abuse (check)
    Chilcotin (31lbs, rp23, 160mm fork, 2.35) for all day anywhere (on its way)
    New Endo (26lbs, rp23, 150mm fork, 2.25) for long rides with little chunk. (On its way)
    Carbon 29 SL (22lbs rp23 100mm rear, 120mm fork, 2.1 tires) for chasing down those guys in spandex. (Dreaming)

    what's everyone else thinking?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell
    Delirium (36lbs, CCDB, 180mm fork, 2.5 dh tires) for abuse (check)
    Chilcotin (31lbs, rp23, 160mm fork, 2.35) for all day anywhere (on its way)
    New Endo (26lbs, rp23, 150mm fork, 2.25) for long rides with little chunk. (On its way)


    what's everyone else thinking?
    You've got a lot of $$$$ and too much crossover in your stable! But, what the hell if you've got the coin....go for it! No to the 29'er. They can make one later, too many people want that SL as is. Just my .02
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  3. #3
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    I do think that a Endorphin SL carbon with 29 would be something that would make me want to try carbon or 29.

    But I just don't think that any of those (carbon or big wheels) are in a close future for Knolly.

  4. #4
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    Not so sure about that....

    ...I still owe you a cable guide, don't I!? Sorry about that. I'd be hard pressed to think that they are making all these changes without going carbon. It's the new hydro form. Lighter, stronger and sleek.......my $'s on Carbon.
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  5. #5
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    Not alot of money, just alot passion for bikes. I live in a 280 sq ft apartment with my girlfriend, no morgage, no kids, no $500/month SUV payment, no cable TV, no savings, no 401, no fancy dinners with expensive wines (However, i do like a good scotch), no country club membership, no need to keep up with the jones, just an obsession with bikes. the majority of my income goes towards bikes, bike parts and bike trips.
    Just think, a year without cable is a nice set of wheels. A year without a car payment?...oh boy! ...my friends spent 15k on day care in the past calender year, and i spent that on bikes, to each their own.

    now before we get into how we should live our lives, lets get back to bikes

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominator13
    ...I still owe you a cable guide, don't I!? Sorry about that.

  7. #7
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    Ha ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr

    Oops! I'll get it in the mail....too funny!
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  8. #8
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    A sudden wave of jealousy......

    just came over me! Good for you. I've got all of the above.

    It does have it's rewards, however, the most precious of all that is "time". That's what makes or breaks us as riders. Do we have the time to actually go out and ride that steed.

    Get rid of the GF and you'll be the envy of us all. JK!

    Good for you and your stable!
    "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominator13

    Get rid of the GF and you'll be the envy of us all. JK!

    :
    duh, she pays for everything! ...haha, not everything! but thanks for mentioning time, You just inspired me to turn this off and go ride the road bike (hate this one) on this gloomy 35 degree day cause i got the time to do so.

    Cheers,
    Pete

  10. #10
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    Man that's a lot of blingy bikes! A Chili and an Endo? That's just crazy talk!

    Not sold on 29r's myself. Wagon wheels have their place but I don't see any true advantage. You don't need circus wheels to chase down the lycra crowd. I can do that on a good day with my Delirium!

    I can't see them dropping much more weight with the Endo SL if they stick with AL. A carbon Endo SL as a racing bike/light trail ripper sounds like the real deal. The only other bike out there like it right now is the Yeti ASR5C. I'm on the bubble right now about picking one of those up, unless Knolly needs me to do some prototype testing

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell
    So as we wait for the Chilcotins and Endos to be put to the dirt, I am thinking ahead to this "SL". What will it take to earn the" SL"? ..Obviously "experimenting with other materials"= carbon. But what else? I got to thinking about changes in MTBing since the changes to the Chilcotin were made (specifically 142x12). There have been alot of changes that I have fought and alot that I thought were great.

    So I was thinking about changes that could be made to an SL before it's release and dare I say, I want it to be a 29er? Now hear me out, I have never thrown a leg over a bike with big wheels but maybe it's time. It seems like 29er have found there place in hardtails and short travel xc bikes and when I think about the trails I want an SL for, why not have big wheels to boot?

    When the new Endo's do show up, I imagine that the light builds will be around 25 pounds and that is as light as I dare go on a bike with 140mm of travel. So, if the SL is carbon, that will only take off another 1-1.5 pounds and reduce travel to 120ish, and the builds will be in the 22-23 pound range and that hard to justify needing. If I am going to have multiple bike, I need them to be different enough and my dream collection now looks like this:
    Delirium (36lbs, CCDB, 180mm fork, 2.5 dh tires) for abuse (check)
    Chilcotin (31lbs, rp23, 160mm fork, 2.35) for all day anywhere (on its way)
    New Endo (26lbs, rp23, 150mm fork, 2.25) for long rides with little chunk. (On its way)
    Carbon 29 SL (22lbs rp23 100mm rear, 120mm fork, 2.1 tires) for chasing down those guys in spandex. (Dreaming)

    what's everyone else thinking?
    Speculation.......or mental [email protected]%$#!*

    I too have a Delirium and will skip the Chilcotin for a 30+ pound Endorphin this summer. Both bikes will spend time on trail and in the air, just at different levels. With a true super light bike, I would not be interested in hopping off of every little bump on the trail.

    I have to say I agree with the 29er idea for a SL bike. If I wanted a really lightweight, stellar climbing, long distance, go fast machine then I would want a 29er for the job. The 29 just fits that type of riding for average height to tall riders. On the trail moving forward instead of sideways and defying gravity.

    I would do a split lineup for a super light bike frame. Extra small, small and medium frames would get 26" wheels. Then I would do another medium, large, and extra large in 29" wheels.
    Last edited by bubba13; 04-12-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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  12. #12
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    I just want an Endorphin with 140mm travel, 1.5 headtube and ISCG tabs. I'm a 1x drive train fan The Chilcotin has 2 out of 3 of those features but I have no need for 160mm travel. Hopefully, when the redone Endo comes out it will have everything I want.

    A carbon Endo SL doesn't interest me in the slightest. I don't like wrecking but it likes me so carbon would have me too nervous:/

    I think Knolly should make an aggressive 29er because the market is somewhat lacking. However, I don't think Knolly could crank out a 22lb 29er. Considering the Endo SL show bikes were 25lb range, I doubt a simple switch to carbon would make up for the heavier wheels/tires. Not that it couldn't be done but I don't see WHY it would be done. Knolly makes aggressive, capable bikes, not XC race bikes. If Noel starts spreading his focus too far then the few bikes he's great at designing will suffer Stick to the gnar!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX
    I just want an Endorphin with 140mm travel, 1.5 headtube and ISCG tabs. I'm a 1x drive train fan The Chilcotin has 2 out of 3 of those features but I have no need for 160mm travel. Hopefully, when the redone Endo comes out it will have everything I want.

    A carbon Endo SL doesn't interest me in the slightest. I don't like wrecking but it likes me so carbon would have me too nervous:/

    I think Knolly should make an aggressive 29er because the market is somewhat lacking. However, I don't think Knolly could crank out a 22lb 29er. Considering the Endo SL show bikes were 25lb range, I doubt a simple switch to carbon would make up for the heavier wheels/tires. Not that it couldn't be done but I don't see WHY it would be done. Knolly makes aggressive, capable bikes, not XC race bikes. If Noel starts spreading his focus too far then the few bikes he's great at designing will suffer Stick to the gnar!
    It sounds like the new Endorphin will have the tabs, 140mm, but a tapered head tube. Why would you need a 1.5 on a bike that sports 140mm of travel? Tapered or 1 1/8 steer tubes are more than enough for this type of frame.

    A 29er Endorphin and/or Chilcotin in the line up? That would make good sense also. That market is still wide open as long as forks become available.
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  14. #14
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    Well, tapered would work as well I just want a beefy front end. I figured since the other models use a 1.5 it would be easiest for Noel to spec that size across the lineup.

    I wasn't saying it would be ill advised for Knolly to make a 29er, the OP had simply stated he would like a 22lb model. I don't see that happening. An aggressive, slack, 140mm range Knolly 29er would be SWEET!

  15. #15
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    I hope my next Knolly is a 29er, but I doubt you'll see a carbon version. That requires a different level of capital than I'm guessing is possible for a small company to design and build the required lasts. Who knows though. Even so, I would prefer a slightly less expensive (and heavier) aluminum version.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    The only other bike out there like it right now is the Yeti ASR5C. I'm on the bubble right now about picking one of those up, unless Knolly needs me to do some prototype testing
    I was poking around in the Yeti camp and it seemed like there have been a lot of cracked swingarms on the ASR5c.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    I was poking around in the Yeti camp and it seemed like there have been a lot of cracked swingarms on the ASR5c.
    Two guys in my riding club got ASR Carbons in mid-summer 2010 (pretty sure they weren't the 5C). Both used them for racing and trail riding. Both frames had rear end issues and didn't last until the end of the summer: one had the carbon around the dropouts crack and I think the other experienced a crack in the rear triangle. Neither of them are riding another Yeti.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    I was poking around in the Yeti camp and it seemed like there have been a lot of cracked swingarms on the ASR5c.
    Yeah, I saw that as well. That's what has kept me from jumping in.

  19. #19
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    I read in a mag (think it was MBA) that 29er sales were ~15% of the market, so with tooling cost, trips to China, etc. I would think you would have to make a whole lot carbon of frames to be profitable. If Noel did design a 29er, I'm sure it would be as "bad ass" as all his other designs. Who know's, He has a history of pulling things out of his magic hat. He may be test riding a prototype as we speak.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAKESNAKE
    I read in a mag (think it was MBA) that 29er sales were ~15% of the market, so with tooling cost, trips to China, etc. I would think you would have to make a whole lot carbon of frames to be profitable. If Noel did design a 29er, I'm sure it would be as "bad ass" as all his other designs. Who know's, He has a history of pulling things out of his magic hat. He may be test riding a prototype as we speak.

    I'd sell my Sultan in a heartbeat for a Knolly ~68.5* 140mm 29er with <18'' CS... yum yum.

  21. #21
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    I personally don't need a Knolly 29er. Recently picked up an Endo, and my 29er hard tail will be lucky to get some so dirt paths this year.
    Down is the new up.

  22. #22
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    Man, some of you guys are crazy. They unveiled two new models at Interbike, now they're in the process of re-designing one, and you think they'll pop a carbon 29"er too. I'm more inclined to believe we'll see some carbon rockers or the like before a full carbon frame - walk before you run.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Man, some of you guys are crazy. They unveiled two new models at Interbike, now they're in the process of re-designing one, and you think they'll pop a carbon 29"er too. I'm more inclined to believe we'll see some carbon rockers or the like before a full carbon frame - walk before you run.
    If someone can do it, Noel can!

  24. #24
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    I haven't been paying close attention, what are the changes that are being made to the SL and the Chilcotin?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Man, some of you guys are crazy. They unveiled two new models at Interbike, now they're in the process of re-designing one, and you think they'll pop a carbon 29"er too. I'm more inclined to believe we'll see some carbon rockers or the like before a full carbon frame - walk before you run.
    Yeah, reality. Get the Chilcotin and new Endorphin released and selling. Back fill the partially sold out Delirium inventory. I am guessing that they will offer the Delirium and Podium with 142x12 eventually. Possible Endorphin SL and/or Vtach redo? Knolly currently has the best trail/AM/FR/DH 26" bike lineup on the planet. Not a bad place to be.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    I haven't been paying close attention, what are the changes that are being made to the SL and the Chilcotin?
    Noel is releasing a frame with 29" wheels, 200mm travel, full carbon (even bolts and nuts), it will even pedal uphill for you, it will come in 20 different colors and offer custom geometry....

    .. or something like that...
    .. or maybe just some touches on the Endo..

  27. #27
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    I heard the Endo SL will just be the Endo and Knolly is experimenting with CF. I also heard the Chlico is going to get some more "modern" geometry.

    A CF Delirium would be pretty sweet...
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitenshakun
    I heard the Endo SL will just be the Endo and Knolly is experimenting with CF. I also heard the Chlico is going to get some more "modern" geometry.

    A CF Delirium would be pretty sweet...
    Take a peek at the threads Where are the Endo SL's at and Chomping at the bit...your answers are there.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    I haven't been paying close attention, what are the changes that are being made to the SL and the Chilcotin?
    The SL is not happening this year. Instead they are upgrading the Endo with a tapered headtube, ISCG05 tabs, and 142x12 thru-axle. It also looks like they made the HA slightly slacker.

    They are also adding 142x12 on the Chili as well as making some tubing changes to make it stronger and lighter. And I think they bumped the travel up from 150 to 160.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    The SL is not happening this year. Instead they are upgrading the Endo with a tapered headtube, ISCG05 tabs, and 142x12 thru-axle. It also looks like they made the HA slightly slacker.

    They are also adding 142x12 on the Chili as well as making some tubing changes to make it stronger and lighter. And I think they bumped the travel up from 150 to 160.
    Nice...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    The SL is not happening this year. Instead they are upgrading the Endo with a tapered headtube, ISCG05 tabs, and 142x12 thru-axle. It also looks like they made the HA slightly slacker.

    They are also adding 142x12 on the Chili as well as making some tubing changes to make it stronger and lighter. And I think they bumped the travel up from 150 to 160.
    Damn I didn't expect them to do that especially after all the proto testing. Does anyone know why the last minute decision was made?

    Sucks for anyone who had already bought one and was expecting to have it as their only bike this year.

    Such last minute changes make me wonder if production costs were to high and thief looking into having them produced overseas.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    .....Such last minute changes make me wonder if production costs were to high and thief looking into having them produced overseas.
    That's how rumors are grown

    I really don't think they'll looking to go overseas, if they were almost ready to release the SL and decided not to, it was likely that Noel felt that the bike needed several tweaks to make it better.

    I don't really know much about how bikes are manufactured and costs involved, but if Knolly already had sent models and prototypes to the final manufacturer, moving the production overseas I think would mean also more money to get the other company ready to produce them, I think.

    And also, I think that moving overseas would hit Knolly in sales, or at least an initial hurdle. Look into other small bike companies that done that. For some people, made in America matters, likely for most it doesn't, but I really doubt Knolly moving production overseas is likely in the short term.

    I would buy another Knolly regardless of where it was made, if I had the money, lol!

  33. #33
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    Holy crap! That is an impressive stable.

    Is there any way to lighten the Chilcotin enough to replace the need for the Endo? I think that would allow you to justify a 29er if Knolly comes out with one so that those spandexters don't run away from you.

    DH/Freeride Stuff = Delirium
    AM Mountain = Chilcotin
    Speedy Smooth Single Track = 29er

    That would be me my thought process. To each his own without a doubt. Hell of a collection!

  34. #34
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    Ya'll are a knowledgable bunch so my question is towards the resiliance/durability of a carbon Knolly. Plus, its Friday and I'm procratinating on a work report so my train of thought is easily derailed.
    I get the stronger/lighter side from a pedalling/riding perspective. I don't get the impact strength benefits/problems. It seems to me, carbon would be more of a worry for any bike like a Knolly's aggressive line.
    I was perusing a Cannondale catalog last night and they're babbling Cannondale Marketing speak about their "Over Mountain" WTF? and "BallisTec carbon" bikes. Blah blah blah but this got me thinking......
    What happens when a carbon bike frame impacts a rock on the side of the frame? I did a nice crash this weekend on the Endo (pilot error) and the bike bounced off a boulder, as did I. Frame is fine, I've got cool bruises decorating my thigh.
    If it were carbon, would I have need to be concerned and take the bike in to be "officially" inspected? That would suck and be a PITA after any crash.
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  35. #35
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    I know two people who broke Mojos. One a rock deflection cracked their chainstay and the other's bottom bracket developed a crack after being launched off a small drop.

    I haven't heard of issues with Carbon Enduros, which have been around for a while, but word is spesh will take care of you (this was regarding a carbon roadie).

    Ibis was warranty in the BB case and crash replacement in the Chainstay (which was JRA).

    So to answer your question regarding deflections it probably depends on the carbon epoxy. I know of a firm that uses carbon in jet engine turbines and they pass the chicken toss test (talking to the engineer buddies of mine, the chicken test is the highlight of their engine design). The carbon surpasses the alu in performance and that is an extremely high speed interaction where the slightest impacts can have amplified results. Do current frame makers use the same techniques as multi-million dollar jet engines, I'm not sure, but I do know RaceFace was sourcing the same carbon material as Boeing was using in the new 787 dreamliner.

    I would venture to guess that Noel's engineering background will allow him to understand, evaluate, and execute on a carbon design that surpasses the alu offerings out there from weight/strength/impact perspectives. Knowing the company's commitment to only developing what they want, i.e. as near artisans, not following a marketing machine and having the luxury of commanding a premium, I'd feel confident buying a Knolly carbon frame, even used.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar
    ...Knowing the company's commitment to only developing what they want, i.e. as near artisans, not following a marketing machine and having the luxury of commanding a premium, I'd feel confident buying a Knolly carbon frame, even used.

    Cracknfail's marketing gibberish always has amused me. So, If I were to look at a carbon MTB, and Knolly had 'em, they'd be high on the list. I'm quite happy on my Endorphin as is for now. (As for Specialzed carbon road frames....I just ordered one of those things last week).
    Don't harsh my mello

  37. #37
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    [QUOTE=rzozaya1969]That's how rumors are grown

    I really don't think they'll looking to go overseas, if they were almost ready to release the SL and decided not to, it was likely that Noel felt that the bike needed several tweaks to make it better.

    I don't really know much about how bikes are manufactured and costs involved, but if Knolly already had sent models and prototypes to the final manufacturer, moving the production overseas I think would mean also more money to get the other company ready to produce them, I think.

    And also, I think that moving overseas would hit Knolly in sales, or at least an initial hurdle. Look into other small bike companies that done that. For some people, made in America matters, likely for most it doesn't, but I really doubt Knolly moving production overseas is likely in the short term.
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    Hope that they don't ever go overseas.... the reason that I went with Xprezo for my latest trail frame.

    I'd have been all over an Endo or Endo SL if....

    "The SL is not happening this year. Instead they are upgrading the Endo with a tapered headtube, ISCG05 tabs, and 142x12 thru-axle. It also looks like they made the HA slightly slacker."

    The tabs and the slightly slacker.... but dunno if i really want to see the 142 x 12. I'm ok with 135 10mm bolt on for my trail rigs at the moment.
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  38. #38
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    Supposedly some dude ripped his water bottle mount out of a mid level roadie and got back some new hottness.

  39. #39
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    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not starting rumors and I'm not a hater I love my Knolly's.

    BUT

    If the bike was slated for release in a month don't you think they would have had a lot of pieces manufactured? $hit, Ventana is showing some of their new production pieces and their months away from selling the first of their new bikes. You don't get that close to a deadline and all of a sudden pull back, thats thousands and thousands of dollars lost in raw materials.

    It would be easy to pull the bike for very nominal changes to keep the people at bay while a new production source is hunted for. I'm sorry but its the first thing that came to my mind when I went back and read the referenced thread. I don't know if thats whats going on nor do I care, I love Knolly bikes regardless but sometimes the signs are there if you look into it enough.

    Unless someone flat out denies it then only due time will tell.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not starting rumors and I'm not a hater I love my Knolly's.

    BUT

    If the bike was slated for release in a month don't you think they would have had a lot of pieces manufactured? $hit, Ventana is showing some of their new production pieces and their months away from selling the first of their new bikes. You don't get that close to a deadline and all of a sudden pull back, thats thousands and thousands of dollars lost in raw materials.

    It would be easy to pull the bike for very nominal changes to keep the people at bay while a new production source is hunted for. I'm sorry but its the first thing that came to my mind when I went back and read the referenced thread. I don't know if thats whats going on nor do I care, I love Knolly bikes regardless but sometimes the signs are there if you look into it enough.

    Unless someone flat out denies it then only due time will tell.
    This reasoning makes a lot of sense compared to anything else I can think up. If Noel had even the smallest concern with either the way the bikes rode, production/tolerance issues, etc., I would be shocked if he didn't pull the plug on the new frames, regardless of how far into production hey may have been (and good on him for doing so if that's the issue). Definitley is a major bummer for those waiting on the new bikes (and of course the folks at Knolly too) but it would be way worse just to release a bike that they weren't satisfied with, even if that might be the easy way out. Hope for all involved that it all gets resolved soon and we've got some sick new bikes on the table really soon.

    As far as overseas production, who knows? If Noel deems their production to be superior to what Knolly has been using I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. As much as the patriot in me wants to think N. American production is far superior to everything out there, I really don't believe that's the case anymore. I've got zero concerns riding a new Endorphin whether production is based in the US, Canada, or Taiwan.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod
    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not starting rumors and I'm not a hater I love my Knolly's.

    BUT

    If the bike was slated for release in a month don't you think they would have had a lot of pieces manufactured? $hit, Ventana is showing some of their new production pieces and their months away from selling the first of their new bikes. You don't get that close to a deadline and all of a sudden pull back, thats thousands and thousands of dollars lost in raw materials.

    It would be easy to pull the bike for very nominal changes to keep the people at bay while a new production source is hunted for. I'm sorry but its the first thing that came to my mind when I went back and read the referenced thread. I don't know if thats whats going on nor do I care, I love Knolly bikes regardless but sometimes the signs are there if you look into it enough.

    Unless someone flat out denies it then only due time will tell.
    When I spoke to him, Noel seemed very proud that his bikes were manufactured in North America - in fact he goes waaay out of his way to buy the tubing from North American manufacturers (there's only like 1 or 2 suppliers left apparently). I doubt he'd send manufacture overseas.

    First off, Knolly is still very small. My Delirium was one of the first batch, and it was still a month late. I called my lbs every week, who called Knolly, and I essentially heard about the birth of my bike as it happened - week 1 was frame is assembled, sending to anodizer. week 2 was anodizer is having trouble getting their **** done on time. week 3 was got it back from anodizer, assembling. week 4 was shipped, sitting in customs. Long story short, I don't think Knolly has hundreds of frames ready to go months in advance - seems more like a last minute/build to order kind of operation at least until they get caught up with the pre-orders.

    My guess is: Knolly saw the standards the bike industry was moving toward (x12, ever decreasing weight in the competition, and maybe Noel just wanted to build a better RFX before Dave Turner could - who knows), and decided that incorporating the changes now and making people wait longer would be better than releasing a bike, but then updating it the following year to keep up with the Jones's of the rest of the bike industry. you wait two months and your Chili will be at the forefront of bike tech for 3-4 years, rather than redesigning again a year from now.

    I would also speculate that the SL while being a great bike, just wasn't where Noel wanted it to be. Maybe he is looking at carbon, or a 29er, who knows. In any case it needed a redesign, so it got bumped.

    My crystal ball says: the SL was not light enough. It's meant to be a premiere xc race bike, so it should weigh as such. So they took what they learned from the SL, added the x12, kept the 140mm of travel, and called it the 2011 Endorphin, destined to be the be-all-end-all trail bike for the coming years. I would say carbon is the answer to the SL's weight issue, but that type of redesign is too much work to only delay a month or so, so that got put off a year, and the endorphin redesign got the nod. (My guess is the SL will get renamed since it will become a completely different animal once built.) Now the new Endo overlapped a bit too much with the Chilcotin, so when looking to add the x12, they upped the travel to 160, making it Knolly's AM slaying machine of death. I'd then go on to say that Knolly is thinking the Chili and Delirium are a bit too overlapped, so for the next D redesign, it will be bumped up to 180 with x12 or maybe just 150x12, as most are building it as a pedalable FR/DH bike anyway. That means the v-tach will be retired and the D takes it's place in the FR category. The podium will remain on the top of the lineup for DH destruction. A single bike for each segment of the market at this point in time.

    That's what makes the most sense to me. (I won't take credit for this prediction as I think it's been discussed in another thread somewhere.. i just agree.)

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakes2007
    Holy crap! That is an impressive stable.

    Is there any way to lighten the Chilcotin enough to replace the need for the Endo? I think that would allow you to justify a 29er if Knolly comes out with one so that those spandexters don't run away from you.

    DH/Freeride Stuff = Delirium
    AM Mountain = Chilcotin
    Speedy Smooth Single Track = 29er

    That would be me my thought process. To each his own without a doubt. Hell of a collection!
    Yeah that would work great. It's just that i got a weight wennie kit ready to throw on what I thought was going to be an SL.
    My Endo has been "light bike" at 30 pounds so I am looking for something light this summer. I have been trying to get a Scott scale pro 29er as it fits the bill with one of the slacker head angles out there but they seem to be few and far between for now.

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